< 1533600040 478501 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533600265 392488 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533600492 402290 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533600515 530541 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533600594 199063 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533600935 393147 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533602056 627820 :Ragnor9!~Ragnor@110.9.109.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533602146 490501 :Ragnor9!~Ragnor@110.9.109.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1533602523 388205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Challenger514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57258&oldid=57248 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+2) 10 < 1533602977 14420 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric > 1533603427 221533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57259&oldid=57255 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10:( > 1533603547 661444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57260&oldid=57259 5* 03A 5* (+66) 10Oh no! I have to paste it on the pastebin. :( > 1533603662 549341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57261&oldid=57260 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10 < 1533603834 491971 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1533605415 17177 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( some does, some deer, some female deer ) < 1533605582 377393 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding dictionaries, i am finally getting around to italian songs and am somewhat annoyed that wiktionary's italian entries aren't fully accented (barring actual IPA, necessary to know stress and vowel quality) < 1533605682 52984 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the russian ones are, presumably because it would be insane not to. and greek has mandatory accents so its spelling -> pronunciation correspondence is actually better than italian (but much worse in the opposite direction) < 1533605742 546914 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the russian entries use a great automatic IPA module) < 1533605748 672057 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not properly accented? blah < 1533605757 116250 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the accents are optional that should be fixed < 1533605769 51157 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: they are optional, but you need them in dictionaries < 1533605771 710240 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1533605780 217600 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should probably be fixed though < 1533605783 53195 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except at the very last syllable, where they're mandatory) < 1533605789 515866 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with like "unaccented form of " as a redirect < 1533605802 932494 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have search for several languages in english wiktionary as search keywords < 1533605812 381694 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by which I mean main wiktionary search, but with #Language at the end < 1533605854 198573 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: the russian entries use the unaccented form as the article name but still include accents on the entry itself < 1533606122 145488 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: interesting < 1533606133 474364 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irish entries use accents in the page name < 1533606141 174155 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for English wiktionary though < 1533606249 789803 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for russian you pretty much have to do it that way because no one uses the accents outside dictionaries and textbooks. they cannot even get the new letter Ё to stick. < 1533606289 659595 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(people use Е instead) < 1533606382 647205 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1533606533 502835 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533606538 654210 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this entry has audio which sounds to me like the accented version would be mèttere, which is wrong https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mettere#Italian < 1533606551 339499 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as i found by checking the italian wiktionary) < 1533606585 167944 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distinction between è and é isn't easy for a norwegian, we pretty much have them as allophones :P < 1533606639 897236 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1533606663 666131 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that are allophones in your native language are always difficult to handle < 1533606682 742809 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really manage palatized/velarized distinction < 1533606683 932839 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ó and ò are similar but perhaps not quite as bad < 1533606706 89942 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dialect has palatal consonants so i got a bit of a head start. < 1533606717 320527 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not all norwegian dialects do) < 1533606798 479746 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533606915 589883 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although we don't have any velarization, the dark english l helped there. < 1533606951 86043 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. assuming i actually do it right. < 1533610791 231566 :K0HAX28!~K0HAX@112.22.15.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533610858 433335 :K0HAX28!~K0HAX@112.22.15.237 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533611136 700165 :Tabmow!~Tabmow@business-092-079-166-165.static.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533611159 562671 :Tabmow!~Tabmow@business-092-079-166-165.static.arcor-ip.net NICK :Guest95283 < 1533611368 253710 :Roedy28!~Roedy@202.92.201.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533611394 884290 :Roedy28!~Roedy@202.92.201.94 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533611469 993745 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas there was an oral exam where I wrote ten pages [...] <-- i think you've got oral exams wrong hth < 1533611470 11310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1533611505 959718 :Guest95283!~Tabmow@business-092-079-166-165.static.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1533611565 409784 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless wob_jonas is the doctor < 1533611865 147997 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you play Scrabble with memoryless wildcards? < 1533612329 71385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wob_jonas a doctor? < 1533612849 671688 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533613100 409733 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he may have a doctorate? < 1533613107 663784 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533613139 939636 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1533613323 824853 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure though. < 1533613335 645835 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find an MsC thesis. < 1533613407 92453 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1533615195 863097 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533615277 800555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should add into bsdtar a command to specify the format when reading a archive, to override the autodetection. (It says there is a --format option but it can be used only when writing and not when reading.) < 1533615278 884147 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1533615349 334737 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone here asked if any Lisps used lambdas for control structures? < 1533615359 432205 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is not a Lisp but I think qualifies for the latter part < 1533615504 482188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I originally installed bsdtar because it could read truncated ZIP archives, while 7-Zip and Info-Zip do not.) < 1533616521 624152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1533616587 207893 :K0HAX27!~K0HAX@232.233.13.160.dy.iij4u.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533616588 133349 :K0HAX27!~K0HAX@232.233.13.160.dy.iij4u.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533617404 684651 :ski777714!~ski7777@cpe-72-178-18-206.elp.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1533617430 963747 :ski777714!~ski7777@cpe-72-178-18-206.elp.res.rr.com QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533617566 760719 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpemnouzpdjeqyix QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1533618033 94816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07--Unless14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57262&oldid=56450 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10 > 1533618092 144709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07--Unless14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57263&oldid=57262 5* 03A 5* (-156) 10/* Tutorial */ < 1533618648 367517 :drakythe23!~drakythe@177.69.243.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533619018 989276 :drakythe23!~drakythe@177.69.243.185 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533619138 14470 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533619425 865194 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1533622325 227006 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533622592 236444 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533622948 639658 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533623247 633246 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1533624151 234846 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekexmlbcswrlmedu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1533624754 861542 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return. < 1533625477 169139 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1533625513 71111 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533625809 204821 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533625960 433824 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533626341 39413 :parduse!~parduse@unaffiliated/parduse JOIN :#esoteric < 1533629770 11295 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533630587 53560 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1533631162 668337 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1533631441 913258 :casdr3!~casdr@41.238.241.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533631450 397342 :casdr3!~casdr@41.238.241.1 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533632614 338477 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533632793 443075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "wiktionary's italian entries aren't fully accented", "the russian ones are" => in which language Wiktionary? you can check in both the french, the english, and the native one. maybe one of them has the accents or pronunciation. < 1533632805 235896 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, how about the Lithuanian entries? < 1533632810 509589 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1533632871 664360 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mind you, in the English wiktionary, pronunciation is missing for most English words, and you know how bad the correspondance is there < 1533632912 202148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm at home, I can use my paper dictionaries to look up the pronunciation of many words < 1533632934 212444 :GDiaX!~GDiaX@176.101.204.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533633022 736479 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe with like "unaccented form of " as a redirect" => no no. the unaccented form is the normal form, so it's the page title. but the accents are shown in the bold header of each separate unrelated etimology under the language and possibly etimology headings < 1533633027 651430 :GDiaX!~GDiaX@176.101.204.40 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533633079 532504 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you find the unaccented form in normal text, so that's what has to be the page title, and in the rare case when you're reading a children's text, either you remove the accents or there's some bot that creates redirects from the accented form < 1533633126 993242 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's like for English dictionaries that show hyphenation in the headwords. wiktionary could do that, but doesn't for some reason, and the page title would not include the hyphenation dots < 1533634101 398494 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Hungarian dictionaries that mark compound words written without the hyphen with a vertical bar in the headword, because that is a concise way to tell the etymology for most of them, and for some compound words you would get the wrong hyphenation otherwise < 1533635271 903209 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is wob_jonas a doctor?" => no. < 1533635403 78790 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think he may have a doctorate?" => I don't. I started a PhD studies, but stopped, I didn't write a thesis and didn't take the final exams either < 1533635415 85014 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also didn't defend a thesis, obviously < 1533635441 949727 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did defend the MsC-equivalent thesis and got the MsC-equivalent degree < 1533635482 642814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think someone here asked if any Lisps used lambdas for control structures?" => scheme does, together with a builtin if control structure < 1533635977 492768 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1533636128 664253 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1533636142 663597 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533636220 307438 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Client Quit < 1533639968 993387 :Shnaw0!~Shnaw@95-30-101-218.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1533639988 682023 :Shnaw0!~Shnaw@95-30-101-218.broadband.corbina.ru QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533640980 203815 :walle303!~walle303@185.224.8.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533640999 743269 :walle303!~walle303@185.224.8.50 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533641244 462600 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 JOIN :#esoteric > 1533641260 125368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functional()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57264&oldid=57086 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-35) 10Updated language description < 1533641637 721849 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1533641706 473136 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533642982 266101 :Pugabyte14!~Pugabyte@95.78.5.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533643090 170443 :Pugabyte14!~Pugabyte@95.78.5.84 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533644124 517321 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533646143 646307 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533646173 300077 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1533646177 712400 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 NICK :Taneb < 1533646247 405725 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish! < 1533646248 791658 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rhuagriqwmfsvoko QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533646249 10966 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533646249 279577 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pnafyupohykudtvt NICK :heroux < 1533646261 998637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533646264 569724 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533646273 73910 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nkcufugetzortvkc JOIN :#esoteric < 1533646319 272402 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1533646356 398999 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1533646356 399073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1533646486 693591 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric > 1533646550 151682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Noida14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57265 5* 03Saka 5* (+3007) 10Created page with "Noida is an esolang created by [[User:Saka]]. It is designed to be simple and easy to write an interpreter for. Noida is short for "No idea" because I didn't know what to nam..." < 1533647139 552192 :ome!~ome@177-104-242-048.provecom.com.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1533647339 265891 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo JOIN :#esoteric < 1533647435 418752 :ome!~ome@177-104-242-048.provecom.com.br QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533648675 332586 :Grimnir16!~Grimnir@177.53.137.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533648848 408692 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT : < 1533648957 711852 :Grimnir16!~Grimnir@177.53.137.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1533649494 432589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Saka14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57266&oldid=56201 5* 03Saka 5* (+12) 10/* My Languages */ < 1533649596 661193 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533650159 214922 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1533651084 216070 :parduse!~parduse@unaffiliated/parduse QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533651495 654861 :Guest32737!~HepaR@118.136.44.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533651566 695933 :Guest32737!~HepaR@118.136.44.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533652910 180625 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533652934 518847 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1133 < 1533652935 731020 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1133: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1533652959 537923 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was the one who guessed there'd be an olist yesterday? You were wrong. But there is one today. < 1533652993 560266 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh hey I’m almost done < 1533653012 919665 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not. I'm still at work < 1533653020 592657 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting back to work in a moment < 1533653023 935413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :people mess my concentration however < 1533653056 825280 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem, I still will be editing the video after it’s recorded < 1533653079 167700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you may watch it any time < 1533653114 816206 :evilman_work17!~evilman_w@59.86.208.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533653156 765221 :evilman_work17!~evilman_w@59.86.208.132 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533654109 69475 :thomas0!~thomas@113.239.183.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533654199 436469 :thomas0!~thomas@113.239.183.188 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533655250 62998 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1533655601 706625 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533657156 516339 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533657167 676714 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :carl hewitt is a crank, change my view. < 1533658113 480119 :CGML2!~CGML2@183.99.46.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533658177 54377 :CGML2!~CGML2@183.99.46.18 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533658206 164510 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? you're correct < 1533658206 280553 :WizJin!~WizJin@181.208.108.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533658272 375071 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initial stuff on actors was okay but now he's in to this weird DirectLogic stuff where he posts cryptic ms word documents on arxiv and responds to questions like a fortune cookie < 1533658294 352046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Types are fundamental to computation. Lucky numbers 7, 11, 23." < 1533658313 401315 :WizJin!~WizJin@181.208.108.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533658366 181112 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he went way overboard with actors. his original paper reads like a seriously unhinged person's monologue, nothing of substance, and what's more he's now claiming that actors are more powerful, computationally, than turing machines. < 1533658389 866003 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the real number stuff, due to unbounded nondeterminism i think? < 1533658434 617546 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but he fails to even produce a proof... < 1533658490 646681 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even a fan of actors these days, they are basically a form of callbacks < 1533658520 482157 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was at least one person who claimed to understand hewitt's posts on lambda the ultimate but he hasn't been around in a while < 1533658546 802003 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like them to sit down and explain to me what the fuck he's on about to be honest. < 1533658552 613713 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to see a simple directlogic interpreter < 1533658565 715170 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the original paper, in all its scanned-in low-res glory, and it was a mess. < 1533658569 494128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual formalisms. < 1533658581 914654 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen DirectLogic, I'll look that up. < 1533658612 270160 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's connected to his new ActorScript stuff, supposedly some kind of "inconsistency robust" logic < 1533658633 502978 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how in the world is he going to handle that. < 1533658634 646797 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :ActorScript itself is not very well defined < 1533658648 705061 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he seems to introduce a new keyword to handle anything that comes up < 1533658654 340755 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what you can see in the arxiv docs < 1533658678 738637 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he really had a straightforward idea he could write an interpreter, however naive and slow and bad, just to demonstrate it < 1533658682 859601 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all he does is write ms word docs < 1533658696 267385 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have "inconsistency robust" logic, it's called computation. < 1533658719 699511 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hell is he on about.. < 1533658736 494828 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1533658747 520764 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.subjectcentric.com/posts/carl_hewitt_s_direct_logic__inconsistency_tolerant_reasoning_and_subject-centric_computing/ I found this on Direct Logic. < 1533658828 380121 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it means we have arguments for both P and ~P" okay, while that says nothing about the truth value of the proposition, what in the world can you say with that formula. < 1533658860 189473 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, paraconsistent logic is a thing < 1533658863 966829 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :hewitt didn't invent that < 1533658881 935667 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ways of dealing with knowledge bases that contain both `P` and `not P` < 1533658891 538960 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, hewitt doesn't really describe how his works < 1533658893 102063 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but is that really all direct logic is. < 1533658906 590440 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear what direct logic is, because it makes all sorts of grandiose claims < 1533658916 92278 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, he claims to get around goedel's incompleteness theorems < 1533658925 409847 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :he claims the second one is actually incorrect < 1533658929 952214 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that would be a fuckin' sight. < 1533658964 152710 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc he claims direct logic is both sound and complete and capable of expressing properties of real numbers < 1533658968 260050 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533658975 93084 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any links to some of the more "focused" papers he's published? < 1533658978 644224 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1533658979 987195 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, should I say, uploaded. < 1533658980 87542 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1533658984 233701 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao. < 1533659000 569742 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the stuff is focused, that's what i've been getting at < 1533659009 96296 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he could just sit down and talk normally it could be really interesting, even if he's wrong < 1533659018 459873 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have made grandiose claims and been wrong before, i don't hold that against them < 1533659025 355946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i do dislike is being so vague about it in the process < 1533659055 267541 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a tease, he claims to have this great idea which is almost certainly wrong but still interesting, but he'll never actually describe it to you < 1533659058 312381 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an attempt to delay the discovery that he's full of shit. < 1533659073 10837 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he apparently has quite the cult of personality. < 1533659132 615114 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arxiv.org/abs/0812.4852 I'm going in. < 1533659215 475807 :grubles10!~grubles@node-j88.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533659307 751332 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he's stated the abstract 4 times. < 1533659322 409024 :grubles10!~grubles@node-j88.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533659344 490945 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god there's more quotes than self-authored material. < 1533659372 307573 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533659390 147668 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :dave ackley has more coherence than this guy. < 1533659452 188214 :SakiiR25!~SakiiR@171.234.207.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533659488 9671 :SakiiR25!~SakiiR@171.234.207.208 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533659809 340411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so he walked through how to derive inconsistency using a catch-22. he then shows the same derivations in almost exactly the same notation (only THIS TIME he's writing `catch-22` on everything) with little to no changes, other than he doesn't discard the contradiction. < 1533659854 32741 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's restated the abstract another 10 times. < 1533660178 708253 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 pages down, and I wish I was kidding but these pages are so short. < 1533660245 12413 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a god damn quote on every page. < 1533660329 615873 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the bibliography is half as long as the paper, and now we're at the appendix. "Details of Direct Logic". < 1533660356 471434 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533660420 667939 :Andre483!~Andre483@59.86.208.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533660450 971059 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can't parse real numbers." thank you, carl, I didn't know that. < 1533660495 712321 :Andre483!~Andre483@59.86.208.132 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533660535 652260 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1533660540 52303 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he appears to be constructing some kind of meta-logic that actually differentiates between different kinds of logical objects. you can reason over types, booleans, natural numbers, propositions, proofs, and theories.. okay, that's higher-order logic. < 1533660569 983112 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot sentences in there. < 1533660629 516709 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you can reason about the actual formulas, the string forms of said formulas, and some indirect references to other formulas. < 1533660648 829008 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this man likes his unicode. < 1533660677 319912 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are seperate inference rules for the different types. < 1533660850 589935 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few pages later, there's nothing actually addressing the concept of inconsistency. < 1533660980 698026 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he strikes me as a sort of George Spencer Brown figure. < 1533661065 338682 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: you were right, that was incredibly... unhinged. I've seen crank mathematics (George Spencer Brown, Hofstader, the time cube guy lmao) but I never expected it to come from a "well-cited" source like Hewitt. < 1533661217 30972 :ksft25!~ksft@37.0.33.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533661334 604672 :ksft25!~ksft@37.0.33.54 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533661726 692507 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533662618 466678 :Guest79923!~VoidWhisp@187.170.37.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533662701 621631 :Guest79923!~VoidWhisp@187.170.37.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533662791 782525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: https://youtu.be/cYOqMf0xw4c < 1533662832 360102 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :an imperfection-rich thing about cursive < 1533662853 540735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it’s more useful than harmful :D < 1533664425 226816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1533664425 773539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1533664425 773586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1533664630 627448 :zz_ka6sox!~zz_ka6sox@wf-171-99-205-87.revip9.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric < 1533664675 395644 :zz_ka6sox!~zz_ka6sox@wf-171-99-205-87.revip9.asianet.co.th QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533665188 308051 :jelly29!~jelly@211.197.12.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533665508 643679 :jelly29!~jelly@211.197.12.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533667029 525736 :fydel!~fydel@190.50.231.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533667135 117716 :fydel!~fydel@190.50.231.120 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533667265 596492 :maxalt19!~maxalt@175.208.129.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533667284 888932 :maxalt19!~maxalt@175.208.129.13 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533667306 47324 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1533667309 134939 :steven0!~steven@111.75.100.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533667651 491039 :steven0!~steven@111.75.100.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533667717 318036 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533668088 813720 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1533668853 460321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57267&oldid=57093 5* 03DMC 5* (+35) 10 > 1533669374 402732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grawlix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57268&oldid=54961 5* 03DMC 5* (+36) 10/* Examples */ > 1533669641 463892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Cmax521 5* 10New user account < 1533669661 410187 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533669774 246246 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: "that actors are more powerful, computationally, than turing machines." => I hope it's not just a cheap marketing shot where he later proves that they're actually equivalent to turing machines with a random source < 1533669803 61906 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuse these days we tend to think those are probably equivalent < 1533669908 261923 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: "introduce a new keyword to handle anything that comes up" => ugly > 1533669910 798431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57269&oldid=57135 5* 03Cmax521 5* (+142) 10/* Introductions */ < 1533669954 719149 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: "if he really had a straightforward idea he could write an interpreter, however naive and slow and bad, just to demonstrate it / but all he does is write ms word docs" => so there's no interpreter, not even a partial one? < 1533669955 694154 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1533669992 592773 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's nothing of substance in anything he writes. < 1533670017 328476 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: his argument is "unbounded determinism" yields hypercomputation. < 1533670021 202310 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: "for example, he claims to get around goedel's incompleteness theorems / he claims the second one is actually incorrect" => ah, it's getting worse < 1533670053 392991 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533670057 355551 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: doesn't that mean that it's impossible to interpret on a turing-machine or subset then? < 1533670064 784663 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1533670068 805452 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1533670071 557993 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is total bullshit. < 1533670073 960469 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why he doesn't have an interpreter < 1533670084 401163 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that part is consistent < 1533670106 156523 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because our machines are LBMs doesn't stop us from simulating TMs. < 1533670114 908921 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should be easy for him... < 1533670126 56205 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just a hack. < 1533670131 457534 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if he could just sit down and talk normally it could be really interesting" => I have a better idea, we could just tell him some good references to read first instead, in his free time < 1533670139 186235 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what languages does he speak? < 1533670143 51785 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :english. < 1533670146 636539 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he can be educated if he gets good books < 1533670148 309899 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only? < 1533670166 656041 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be. < 1533670176 240397 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's also vehemently active on Wikipedia to preserve his own self-image. < 1533670223 478949 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what i do dislike is being so vague about it in the process" => yes, so let's just ignore what he says and send him to read books < 1533670261 733492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he's also vehemently active on Wikipedia to preserve his own self-image." => does he just make an autobiography page with no references, or does he also add reasonable references, like articles accepted by respected journals or something? < 1533670274 287070 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACarl_Hewitt%2FArchive_2 < 1533670281 863024 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd ask which language of wikipedia, but if he only reads English, then it's sort of obvious < 1533670294 710456 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carl_Hewitt < 1533670305 886966 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, currently deleted. good < 1533670343 105490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's such a crank.. < 1533670361 296952 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not worth worrying about, at least as an esolanger, since the wikipedians already see the problem and delete his autobio article. I don't care if he writes some angry messages, people are good enough to ignore those. < 1533670384 981907 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's uploaded to arxiv too. < 1533670388 922581 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd only have to worry if he managed to get his autobiography page contain the inflated claims and remain there. < 1533670390 333128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read back I went over his paper. < 1533670414 254347 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to say it was a brief cursory reading but there wasn't much in there. the bibliography was half of it. < 1533670432 839153 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real challenge for carl hewitt is to find a page that doesn't have a quote from somebody else on it. < 1533670438 91671 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: meh, so what. everyone knows arxiv can contain preprints, and that you can change the metadata later to indicate which journal has accepted the article, with a full reference, that people can then check in the journal < 1533670475 415252 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arxiv.org/abs/0812.4852 I want you to read this. < 1533670480 291445 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he uploads some nonsense to arxiv, I wouldn't worry about. if he spams arxiv, arxiv probably has a way to deal with it < 1533670486 667409 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I really don't have the time, sorry < 1533670492 113068 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read the abstract < 1533670511 437835 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohoho, if you can find the time, read it. it's worth your while. < 1533670514 406215 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus, that's not an abstract for an article. what's this, a full book? < 1533670525 68123 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 104 pages of pure unadulterated bullshit. < 1533670537 185748 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: certainly not today for the 104 pages. and I don't think I will ever find the time for that, sorry. < 1533670546 273023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay. half of them are the bibliography. < 1533670546 898779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 102 revisions so far < 1533670581 278717 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in reality, a third of them are. the other third are the actual paper, which is mostly quotes, and the appendices, which are also mostly quotes.) < 1533670672 718275 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'd love to get a friggin' diff because I can't imagine anything of substance was changed. < 1533670679 550053 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: great, the abstract really seems to say that his model is uncomputable < 1533670739 535668 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: it's PDF-only, so diffing will almost certainly be difficult < 1533670747 17942 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't upload whatever was the source of the PDF < 1533670751 194186 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1533670783 544524 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my god there's more quotes than self-authored material." => wow < 1533670844 25491 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"okay the bibliography is half as long as the paper" => that happens, but for a 104 page long paper it's unusual. but he has to source all those quotes he has, right? < 1533670867 207491 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's my point. < 1533670879 925704 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of quotes is equal to the number of bibliography entries... < 1533670937 263492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my record, out of a total of 4 scientific articles, not counting conference procedings and conference slides (for they usually don't have a full bibliography) is < 1533671007 83985 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an article with 53 references on 4 pages, plus 11 pages of body, plus a page for abstract and a title page. this is in the preprint, the journal's version has less whitespace around the title I think. < 1533671075 729566 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to check the journal final version, but I think it also has close to 53 bibliographic references < 1533671096 22799 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's formatted differently so the page numbers are entirely different < 1533671137 150366 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a journal that I think exists printed, or at least is formatted as if it existed printed, so the formatting is compact with a small page and narrow margins and all that stuff < 1533671200 115661 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall, but I think they even do that age old nonsense where they forcibly put the paper author names as initial plus surname format, because THAT would take up too much space in a mathematical paper < 1533671220 81395 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't a physics/biology journal with 100+ member teams sending in articles) < 1533671230 994493 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might reformat the bibliography too, I dunno < 1533671237 639154 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some journals are so backwards < 1533671238 312844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The argument that actors are more powerful than non-deterministic Turing machines is quite ridiculous to me. (I see no useful difference between a machine that is guaranteed to terminate but can take an arbitrary long time for that, and a machine that terminates with probability 1) < 1533671255 279365 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be mixing it up with another journal < 1533671314 400098 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there is probably no computational difference for decision problems (but not for problems that require a random output obviously), except possibly a polynomial overhead, but maths is very far from being able to prove that, < 1533671340 479764 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a major result that might take quarter as much time or twice as much time as P!=NP from now < 1533671359 54244 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just a guess < 1533671408 562453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematics self proves its own consistency." -- assuming completeness. < 1533671436 341568 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like hilbert, but on meth. < 1533671445 750100 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've seen crank mathematics (George Spencer Brown, Hofstader, the time cube guy lmao)" => wait what? < 1533671463 151003 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you take issue with with that statement. < 1533671471 722768 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstadter barely wrote any crank mathematics, most of his book is fiction, and the maths part is not perfect but not crank either; < 1533671492 505739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regard him as a crank because like Hewitt he fails to produce anything of actual value. < 1533671503 152003 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the time cube guy is a crank but I don't think he has any mathematics on his page, though I haven't read the whole page I admit; < 1533671518 543855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you should give some credit to being substantially correct < 1533671519 949892 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a post on HN summarized my feelings on the book. < 1533671529 645757 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter < 1533671540 781918 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.infinitenegativeutility.com/2018/7/why-i-dont-love-godel-escher-bach < 1533671558 330158 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'm not saying you should love the book. you can hate it. but it's not crank mathematics. < 1533671563 658164 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hate it for lots of other reasons < 1533671575 445026 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest reading that if you want a synonymous opinion. < 1533671604 493784 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might have crank philosophy, and most useless but mostly correct mathematics, and fiction, in the same book < 1533671637 424500 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I classify him as a crank because he doesn't bring anything of merit to the table, and what explanations he tries to give fall short of actually conveying anything useful. < 1533671656 964184 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want crank mathematics, I can give better examples. t'Hooft's physics stuff, Wolfram's physics stuff, both based on bad mathematics and physics < 1533671660 666120 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you not count physics? < 1533671665 865731 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohoho I count physics. < 1533671670 138505 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram's a nut. < 1533671672 758938 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: yes, he might be a crank, but not crank mathematics < 1533671684 498094 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: he has crank stuff and useless mathematics in the same book < 1533671698 626952 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fiction that some of us actually find enjoyable < 1533671703 876388 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, let me explain something < 1533671720 594288 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised you take such offense. < 1533671752 431318 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some universities, a small amount of people graduate but the university people knows that he's dangerous if he gets out in the outer world. this happens most often in medical university, but can happen in maths too. < 1533671763 961992 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to really change my view on hofstader. < 1533671789 389226 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in those cases, a good solution is to convince the guy to remain as a professor or researcher in the university or some other uni or research place, and pay him for not doing real world work. < 1533671799 656501 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know of the "my supervisor's keeper" clause. ;) < 1533671825 400966 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the students and professors in the university quickly recognize that he's a crank professor, and take his lectures as a joke. < 1533671829 154913 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time cube guy does lots of math < 1533671844 13392 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of it is logical or makes any sense, but apparently he thought there was a proof in there? < 1533671852 244875 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not dangerous, because the students in the university aren't harmed much by having a useless class the don't attend and get an easy A < 1533671855 35429 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen, you're just not living in 5D. < 1533671875 923079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "crank" is the wrong term, which I would like to reserve for people who invent their own crazy theories. < 1533671885 377154 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to think so too. < 1533671894 407413 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, if the same person got out in the real world to patients, he would damage the health of many of his patients before the patient catches on that he's a bad doctor. some patient catches on, but some don't, or not quickly enough. < 1533671898 358047 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just feels like the right term. < 1533671926 981313 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this system doesn't catch everyone, and there are still bad doctors out there for various reasons, but some doctors are stopped this way. < 1533671941 482644 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're paid from state tuition, like the crank doctor would be payed, so it's all the same. < 1533671966 340232 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the overarching point tho. < 1533671968 508238 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: what's the 5D about? time cube? < 1533671972 844715 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lmao. < 1533671977 469486 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :was in response to Hooloovo0. < 1533671991 203563 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I also claimed that he doesn't do maths < 1533671993 896163 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20070927220333/http://www.lib.hcu.edu.tw/journal/files/CAS/CAS0206.pdf < 1533671993 961794 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong < 1533672006 184273 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a kind of weird read < 1533672013 235055 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't recognize any of what he did as maths, but maybe I'm not imaginative or haven't read enough crank math < 1533672025 498685 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't seem to be intended as math to my eyes < 1533672034 901644 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even as much as Wolfram's < 1533672044 855202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: And just to be clear and can totally understand hating his book(s)... I'm not sure I could read GEB these days. I liked it as a late teenager. < 1533672053 324685 :woodface!~woodface@190.50.231.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533672091 587602 :woodface!~woodface@190.50.231.120 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533672097 591218 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Hofstader shouldn't be classified as a crank. < 1533672104 998032 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just saw it as all meaningless statements that are trying to motivate people to do something, that is, politics, although a rather bad attempt at that < 1533672111 800768 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just somebody who really shouldn't be that notable. < 1533672112 937475 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fake celebrity, I guess? < 1533672144 565336 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a politician talks about global warming and what he wants to do about it, I don't think he's talking physics. I take it as talking politics, with physics jargon because that's what politicians do if it helps them. < 1533672194 937499 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my default is that politics talk is mostly meaningless, and I have to leave it to politologists to read everything and figure out what the guy will actually do, < 1533672241 663906 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then either blog about that in a meaningful way, without the political talk nonsense, like saying that he believes if this politician is elected, he'll build more nuclear power plants, or whatever < 1533672288 300552 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he blogs about it, or publishes in politology journals if he feels like he needs grants, and tells it to journalists who generally distort the whole thing and tell it on news websites < 1533672306 365198 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course he can be factually wrong about his predictions, even consistently if he's a bad politologist < 1533672333 947091 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna be honest, I've only skimmed the time cube guy's page. < 1533672336 244353 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so what? my aim isn't to become a better politologist than the ones I can read if I really want to know who to elect or when to leave the country < 1533672358 80688 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: some years ago I read a few pages (it's text with huge font, mind you) < 1533672366 746492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I actually zoomed it out, rare with a webpage) < 1533672381 62452 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still a copy linked from wikipedia if you want < 1533672385 629987 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extract in the wisdome < 1533672392 1695 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? time cube < 1533672392 498369 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, I've had my fill of crank shit today. < 1533672393 217988 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. < 1533672416 169509 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I wrote that, so it could be biased to what I want to imply about him < 1533672419 82213 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a shirt that says "Educated Stupid". < 1533672449 760721 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, he's very bad even as a politician, and I don't think he managed to achieve anything other than making a meme < 1533672453 161762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote lambda.cube < 1533672453 383147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Maybe you made a typo? < 1533672482 78387 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he got any of what he actually asks people to do in that, like killing your teachers or whatever it was < 1533672491 998259 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that wasn't it < 1533672493 218457 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1533672493 484624 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, you just need to step back into the fifth dimension. < 1533672502 152503 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all will make sense when things stop making sense. < 1533672557 397209 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, there are science fantasy films about the fifth dimension. there's even a really good one: the Phineas and Ferb movie (I'm not sure about its title) < 1533672565 453789 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can look up the title if you care < 1533672567 782408 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke. < 1533672570 640868 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll find it anyway < 1533672575 548648 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but since it's a good film < 1533672577 317968 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is < 1533672594 747140 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a better film if you watch enough of the show first to know the general setting and characters < 1533672606 2908 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a film I recommend watching first if you haven't yet watched the show < 1533672621 138714 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have watched the show, even just like half a season of it, any random half a season, then it's good < 1533672664 240157 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you have to know who all the main characters are and their basic relationships, because in the film there isn't enough introduction and everything changes because of a catastrophe they have to fix < 1533672674 328856 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works MUCH better if you already know the original situation < 1533672691 442359 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Carl, just adding the modifier "Inconsistency-robust" to the names of the elements of a more or less standard sequent calculus does not make it paraconsistent. In particular, you have enough rules to prove p /\ -p |- q /\ -q. < 1533672693 568102 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the TV series is good too, although not everyone is a target audience < 1533672695 450939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has read enough.
< 1533672709 440252 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's exactly the conclusion I came to. < 1533672722 412853 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing of substance.. < 1533672765 617496 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a show that doesn't take itself seriously, with not much logical consistency and much more emphasis on the character's motivations, and then just not caring if what they do makes sense even in a fantasy world, < 1533672808 700413 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like Harry Potter or Star Wars, but much less serious time and much more jokes and whole episodes played for fun, while the character motivations are still consistent (except when they're mind-controlled etc) < 1533672843 979713 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you like those types of media, then I recommen Phineas & Ferb < 1533672872 337048 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying this in the wrong place < 1533672886 434036 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me quickly copy-paste it to another forum where more people listen < 1533672922 792843 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I should only copy it and make a blog post from it to its blog < 1533672935 845680 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day < 1533673096 734647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Actually I might still enjoy GEB. I just have to skip the formal parts :P < 1533673132 761715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The perfect record player plot was cute. < 1533673144 783077 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the problem is I have an implicit assumption going in: that all the romance talk is going to lead up to an eventual climax: some actual fucking. < 1533673150 289105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Was it? < 1533673163 744948 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it ... resonated with me. < 1533673166 459737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a record player that has two disassembly components, where each one can disassemble the other one? < 1533673178 356634 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll read the GEB review, sorry. I've read it, I like it, and since I'm a mathematician I think I did realize that the mathematics part doesn't add anything I didn't know from better sources, and the DNA stuff was pure useless nonsense. < 1533673180 84363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt like there were all sorts of reasonable objections that weren't raised. < 1533673194 430050 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hofstader just kinda tells you the shit he's gonna do you, and then dines-and-dashes. < 1533673229 250945 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: there is a climax. it's not fucking, and it's not anything you learn about science. it's a climax in the fiction parts, and a decent one at that. < 1533673238 280523 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thank you. the point of an analogy is to draw direct comparisons as a gateway to knowledge. < 1533673248 218686 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not, like, what you get from your favourite fiction author, but still a decent one. < 1533673253 731895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quine < 1533673254 807446 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`? quine < 1533673262 89700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote LAMBDA < 1533673262 852989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :102) Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough \ 331) [after a long string of Lymia getting lambdabot to spit out huge, meaningless type signatures] I need to learn more Haskell... ..I need to get op privs. \ 409) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace \ 494) monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [... < 1533673266 989833 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if I wanted fiction I'd read fiction, not something masking itself as nonfiction. < 1533673267 157753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1533673304 102216 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read it with the expectation that it will be like Smullyan's books, that teach you some actual mathematics in the climax, then it's a flop < 1533673309 236323 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that shouldn't be your expectation < 1533673326 727386 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should be my expectation of a book that tells me it's about the real world. < 1533673331 426422 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not Smullyan, he's just a long-time friend < 1533673345 447003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: well, obviously it depends < 1533673346 584064 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way RIP Smullyan, I'll be missing you < 1533673368 255928 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can defend this all you want, it's not going to change the fact that it shouldn't be held up on a pedestal like it currently is. < 1533673380 967054 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: come on, half of it was dialogs that are obviously fantastic fiction. why'd you read it as non-fiction? was it the Smullyan expectation? < 1533673397 476451 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you seriously expect that there's anyone else who's as good as Smullyan in the exact same genre? < 1533673411 55743 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Smullyan's, you know, reputation get to you? < 1533673414 957468 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's that dialogues are intended to expound on something. < 1533673420 337248 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read it with that expectation, I'm sorry < 1533673427 678480 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can understand you didn't like it < 1533673445 549607 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're used as an investigative tool. and I don't feel Hofstader gave me any sort of conclusion. < 1533673450 657358 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: no, they were fun. that's how I read most fiction books too. it's rare that I can learn something from them. < 1533673452 206818 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than talking lavishly about... a lot of nothing. < 1533673463 116129 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen, you're trying to defend a book you like, I get that. < 1533673478 33382 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not going to change what I've said or what I will say lmao. < 1533673491 469205 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry if you took offense to what I've been saying. < 1533673506 289973 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even clearly fiction books that do have a message (or Aesop if you want) but the message is one I don't like, yet I read the fiction book and actually enjoyed it, because I enjoyed the style and characters and decent writing, and ignored the message < 1533673599 694925 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my final thoughts are that you can't take a book parading itself as nonfiction and judge it as a work of fiction in order to praise what you think are good aspects about it in order to avoid negative judgements. < 1533673611 656692 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that, afk. < 1533673620 695879 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specific book that was most like that is Julie Bertagna, Exodus < 1533673682 651474 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you're not going to change what I've said or what I will say lmao" => ok, if you don't want to talk about it, I can stop. but sometimes, when I talk on the internet with people I actually know about works that one of us enjoyed more than the other, < 1533673716 228195 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we tell what we liked and what we didn't, the end result is that I get to enjoy the work better, especially if I then re-read or rewatch the same work with the conversation in mind. < 1533673731 176492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't always work, because sometimes the work still doesn't work for me (sorry for the pun) < 1533673756 195590 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do this a lot for TV series episodes of My Little Pony: FIM, but I think it works for other fiction too, which is why I'm trying < 1533673762 132260 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want to listen, then I can stop < 1533673776 805331 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: ? < 1533673832 661097 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it paraded itself as pop nonfiction at worst, and I already knew not to expect much from pop nonfiction by then, < 1533673878 36873 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I was young, I read a lot of children's pop nonfiction books, and I liked them, but when I grew up and learned about the world, I realized that most of those pop nonfiction books were actually really bad, if you take them at face value < 1533673896 185346 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most primary school textbooks also are, by the way < 1533673905 101212 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for similar reasons < 1533674347 139415 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1533675282 19513 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533675725 957076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533675852 323855 :bmos!~bmos@c-68-83-58-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533675892 184224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1533675924 99505 :bmos!~bmos@c-68-83-58-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533676108 828995 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh you’ve watched P & F too < 1533676111 878053 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533676137 327244 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: most of it < 1533676143 686980 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all episodes < 1533676152 289266 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing some mostly from the later seasons < 1533676170 465154 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are a lot of good episodes I've watched three or more times < 1533676215 924178 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what does "too" mean? have you watched P & F? or is it that I watched practically all MLP and most of P & F too? < 1533676596 475019 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW have anybody watched my vid? < 1533676727 187701 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: have you watched P & F? => this one < 1533676955 7035 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I haven't seen the link < 1533676960 582940 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you please post the link again? < 1533676964 889940 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on ways of treating art: I had gained much when I started not to skip parts that seem boring. With good authors, it really pays later, I’d come to thing < 1533676985 327250 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate you training handwriting by the way. we need more online lectures on that. < 1533676990 232193 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :absoutely can, here it is: https://youtu.be/cYOqMf0xw4c < 1533677017 903451 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I know. I love typography and calligraphy, both restricted to the recent European subset < 1533677024 568696 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, but you better watch it first, I’m afraid it’s too messy < 1533677059 371740 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I'm thanking the attempt in first place. if you fail, it might still push others to make a better video if I tell them that this is the best you could get. < 1533677128 894507 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me point to this great example of calligraphy (and also great drawing) from 1898 by Zichy Mihály: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Illustrations_to_J%C3%A1nos_Arany%27s_ballads_by_Mih%C3%A1ly_Zichy < 1533677155 525586 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also buy it on dead tree if you're in Hungary) < 1533677188 65480 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh, I have a friend who for some time does calligraphy as a hobby, it’s interesting, and he even promised to write a page of text from Summa Logicae somewhere in the future :) < 1533677215 243032 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I'll watch it now. can I give commentary as the video goes, or should I hold it all until the end? < 1533677239 473030 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summa Logicae => in what language is that? < 1533677286 723311 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not interested in learning calligraphy myself anymore, I am more interested in doing typography myself, it's just that I appreciate both < 1533677300 10184 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to learn the basics of handwriting in Russian for the reasons I had told you < 1533677322 197878 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the basics of Hungarian handwriting < 1533677367 696702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: let me point to this great example of calligraphy (and also great drawing) from 1898 by Zichy Mihály => ah, thanks! Really appeals to the eyes, and I haven’t seen this style before. I’ll show these to my friend < 1533677385 624746 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll watch it now. can I give commentary as the video goes, or should I hold it all until the end? => as you wish < 1533677431 770733 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is it the calligraphy or the drawing you like? if the drawing, you can find more examples of his drawing, because his works (or at least most of them) are in public domain now, and many of them are available online < 1533677448 209761 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any other pieces of calligraphy he's done available online though. < 1533677450 487440 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language is that? => latin, it’s by William [of] Ockham < 1533677461 508098 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1533677603 369692 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd really have liked if he added "A hamis tanú" and "A kép-mutogató" to that series, but alas, he didn't, and he's dead since 1906. < 1533677615 623975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the calligraphy or the drawing you like? if the drawing, you can find more examples of his drawing, because his works (or at least most of them) are in public domain now, and many of them are available online => I didn’t concentrated on drawings yet, but yes they at least match the handwriting < 1533677690 192524 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best we could get is to commission a really good painter-forger and a really good calligrapher-forger to make those imitating his style, but such a comission would cost more than a car in my estimate, and I don't think there'd be enough backers on a crowdforging site and I don't have the money myself, so I haven't even tried to ask a price quot < 1533677690 302817 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e. < 1533677770 189648 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they at least match the handwriting => yes, it's by the same hand, and from the same volumes composed together. I think he actually drew the letters overlapping the images on the original. < 1533677846 834007 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the original 1989 volume wasn't even made with the easy modern photographic technique that can copy basically any drawing in high fidelity, he had to do it the hard way, with whatever the one of the other two methods were for this than etching back then (it's not etching) < 1533677880 581375 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1533677915 517420 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern reprint, of course, uses digital photography and digital printing, but since it's in a high enough quality (you can see the printed dot pattern if you zoom in, I scanned in 600 dpi to avoid most of the Moiré), I don't mind < 1533677999 999273 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could get on-site access to the original edition in libraries, and in fact had seen two of the four volumes earlier, but it would be hard and expensive to get them to photograph it (it's an old book so libraries won't scan, they'll only photograph), < 1533678064 659138 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose the cheap solution and bought a throwaway copy of the reprint, I destroyed it with my heart bleading on destroying a copy of such a beautiful book while I cut open the binding and actually cut into many pages during. < 1533678091 429192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the last couple of minutes I think I think shallowly. You tell interesting things and I can’t properly respond to them) < 1533678097 635174 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retrospect, most of that wouldn't have been necessary, I would only have had to remove the outer hard cover to be able to scan, but I didn't realize that back then. < 1533678119 415223 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would have destroyed the book anyway, so it doesn't matter much in the end. < 1533678151 27975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is < 1533678165 18321 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not entirely destroyed, since that would have made scanning impossible, all the single pages are still intact, so I can read it carefully at home. < 1533678187 320390 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if that weren't so, I could buy a new copy. The reprint is cheap (around 6000 HUF) for what it's worth. < 1533678213 261864 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1533678225 641307 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all that plus the cost of scanning plus my time was totally worth IMO for sharing a digitized version with all the world, many of whom wouldn't even hear about this book otherwise. < 1533678234 499954 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can’t write properly, sorry) < 1533678246 668346 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all that plus the cost of scanning plus my time was totally worth IMO for sharing a digitized version with all the world, many of whom wouldn't even hear about this book otherwise. => totally agree < 1533678263 126194 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope some of them will buy a copy of the reprint so they have a print copy, thus supporting the publisher to whom I owe a big thanks for reprinting this. < 1533678292 499297 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should scan something thin and softcover if I find out it’s rare and interesting < 1533678305 304978 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reprint is from 2016, so they actually did the expensive digitizing process in a much more professional way then I could have payed for. I would not have done that. < 1533678347 855461 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I have suggestions. Where do you live? < 1533678416 245944 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two Jules Verne books with beautiful illustrations by Jules-Descartes Férat (1829–1906) engraved by Charles Barbant (1844—1922) < 1533678457 316841 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're in public domain and there are reprint version available, at least in Hungary, usually together with the bad old public domain translations. < 1533678486 210890 :onur4!~onur@49.142.40.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533678493 870172 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are low resolution scans of them online already, but no good high res ones. < 1533678503 33841 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on it, but if you want to speed it up, I'd appreciate it. < 1533678526 405899 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The books aren't technically thin, but if you only scan the etchings, not the text, then it's not many pages. < 1533678531 358082 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533678532 373128 :onur4!~onur@49.142.40.177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533678548 968394 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll need a decent scanner. I used a copy shop one, which isn't perfect, but is cheap. < 1533678581 990037 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a professional service for this, but I don't want to cough the money up for that yet, except for a few very valuable family photos that they can scan better than I could. < 1533678607 58709 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm also scanning family photos for my family, not for publishing. Different project, but can do with same trip sometimes.) < 1533678671 944406 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no need to scan the text of any Verne, most public domain translations and all originals are already not only scanned but digitized to text and proofread and published. < 1533678689 327553 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exception were if any happened to go out of copyright around now, but I don't know of any such translation. < 1533678729 805370 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I didn’t think that far. I’m in Russia in a more or less big city, and for these books it’s possible to be in the library somewhere near (though I doubt it, maybe in Moscow or St. Petersburg, I’m far from these), but I can’t say I’m into libraries and I had never scanned a book < 1533678759 285964 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make anything publishable and in public domain, please either publish to Wikimedia Commons, or ping me or them after you publish so I can upload it to there. < 1533678773 614951 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can help in the uploading and metadata on Commons if you want. < 1533678796 29185 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you can, ping me in advance if you do it with this specific case, so we don't do redundant work. < 1533678833 20324 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only do this if it actually causes you pleasure. Nobody will compensate you by money for this, unless you somehow solve that yourself. < 1533678844 733324 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then, it's not worth if you don't actually like it. < 1533678849 129254 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every art is your style. < 1533678876 66678 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one is just my favourite etcher. < 1533678919 411390 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: okay! I doubt I could help with this case, but thanks for both offers < 1533678932 911641 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: And even then, it's not worth if you don't actually like it. => agree < 1533678987 389210 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commons already has a copy of all the low res scans by http://jv.gilead.org.il/rpaul/ , a site that honors Jules Verne's books *original* illustrations (rather than the crap some publishers put in in 2050 to 2000, when the photographing tech wasn't yet cheap or possible at all, or the original drawing wasn't yet out of copyright, and they couldn't < 1533678987 494881 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get their hands on the original etch master plates. < 1533679017 658627 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the old translations around 1900 actually borrowed the original plates of etching, which is real impressive. < 1533679040 740011 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, some of them, including the one I already published, uses the original plates but messed up the printing process, so the drawings come out too dark and some details are invisible. < 1533679080 222922 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have scans of half of the drawings of this same book (Indes Noires) from another edition (the Szegő György translation) waiting on my hard drive to edit and publish. < 1533679118 384476 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I should really make more backups of my hard disk, although I think I have a single backup of those scans. < 1533679142 961688 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I should finish ranting and watch that video like I promised. < 1533679149 350703 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1533679196 412511 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, look at http://jv.gilead.org.il/rpaul/ , you might find an illustrator and etcher whose style you prefer over Jules-Descartes Férat and Charles Barbant < 1533679205 774411 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't claim that they're objectively the best < 1533679219 959197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s very nice to read your “ranting”, I should say < 1533679243 247429 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I never get to watch the video. It's already past midnight and I should work tomorrow and I'm already on like -4 hours sleep. < 1533679246 962587 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe -6 hours. < 1533679262 622893 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you expect too much of silly me, though :D < 1533679265 420128 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wanted to do other things today too, but don't we always? < 1533679277 418736 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I want to give feedback. < 1533679281 743501 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat my old question: < 1533679302 60343 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll watch it now. can I give commentary as the video goes, or should I hold it all until the end? < 1533679318 462729 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, as you wish :) < 1533679336 153998 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there supposed to be any sound? < 1533679346 690037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1533679405 590764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it’s almost half a hour, and I’m personally going to sleep, so you could technically watch it tomorrow, I absolutely don’t mind < 1533679454 710431 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to hurry < 1533679467 578878 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can logread < 1533679472 687070 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm riled up now < 1533679474 573846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good night! < 1533679482 157060 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I’ll definitely read < 1533679495 634863 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"privet!" I think. I'm not sure that's a p, but a p would make sense. < 1533679506 33429 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1533679515 501450 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, see you later < 1533679542 420458 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have to learn to read this too, if I want to write it for myself.) < 1533679706 397447 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aplê..." let me get those drawings from yesterday < 1533679777 332639 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533679799 299334 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks more like a "p" though. what's the deal with the "p" in "privet!"? < 1533679918 292935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "what's the deal" with the "п" in "привет!"? < 1533679929 590683 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "Aplêičau" < 1533679961 725190 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: in the video, it looks strange. and this is a video demonstrating a consistent form of handwriting, so if it were strange, ar' would have edited it out < 1533679971 441672 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think there's something I don't understand there. < 1533679980 169332 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look like a "P" either. < 1533679993 872893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would think it's derived from π not p) < 1533680007 248123 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for using the ISO-9 transcription by the way, I don't have an easy way to type the russian characters, but I can type these easily < 1533680007 660771 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533680010 589807 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533680037 238703 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but there's a normal shaped p right in "Aplêičau" on the next slide < 1533680038 45996 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for the russian Р vs grrek Ρ. < 1533680047 51929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*greek < 1533680062 731558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't going to watch any video now.
< 1533680065 555664 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes, I know. The russian r looks somewhat like the latin p. I know that. < 1533680132 527598 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The context is, I know the russian alphabet, I just want to learn how to handwrite it, because it annoys me that I can't jot down russian names in notes, and I'm using ISO-9 transcription handwritten instead, which works but hurts me inside. < 1533680162 683341 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And arseniiv volunteered to teach the handwriting he learned, because he agreed there are no good enough tutorials on the internet. < 1533680184 243202 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect his video to be perfect, but he won't just leave a bad letter in there. < 1533680204 161936 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said he edits the video, so he would have replaced any obviously bad parts, so I refuse that explanation. < 1533680241 790377 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah no, it's "Aplêjčau", you write the brevis after the rest, I paused too soon. That even sounds more like a word. < 1533680269 837917 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does that make sense? < 1533680311 992491 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "cursive" column from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_alphabet matches what I remember.\ < 1533680327 15807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what "Aplêjčau" is. < 1533680340 301953 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ar' gave better links yesterday: https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/69mcom/%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B8_%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B1%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B2%D1%8B_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE/ https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/9d/4a/9f9d4aa8e31eadcd2f4dfc44d23dd9f6.jpg < 1533680366 764418 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are images in HTML < 1533680370 889704 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pure images < 1533680372 132235 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1533680373 612465 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not videos < 1533680383 330061 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is Appalachian mountains, in America < 1533680392 448852 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a guess, I didn't check a dictionary < 1533680397 210620 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care < 1533680401 692340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID Firefox... when I make a selection in my terminal, please follow X standards and forget your own selection so that I can actually paste what I marked?!?! < 1533680439 870702 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Referencing the drawings for the "B" word too.) < 1533680512 236193 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Betel'gejze" I think < 1533680551 216622 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice mousewriting, I couldn't draw such a continuous line with a mouse < 1533680571 9480 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or very nice video editing to hide the jumps < 1533680695 972995 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Veneciâ" < 1533680774 806593 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gimalai" more mountains, although this one has a strange spelling, ending in "ai" < 1533680827 797036 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Daniâ" < 1533680906 369587 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enisej" the river in Russia, right? < 1533680929 835087 :ajvpot5!~ajvpot@52.129.50.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533681020 416858 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, there will be no olist this past Monday, but there will be one earlier today. < 1533681082 995137 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ëtunžejt" and you write the diaresis and the brevis in the Right^{TM} order, not the French order. good. they haven't infected your education with that nonsense yet. < 1533681160 51979 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ženeva" < 1533681187 500877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ap_Lei_Chau is Аплєйчау < 1533681193 389802 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1533681216 675483 :ajvpot5!~ajvpot@52.129.50.29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533681230 286400 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok < 1533681290 800885 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Zanzibar", we're at the capital letters that are hard to write now. < 1533681302 863493 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... < 1533681343 208337 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't mean "I" of course. that's an easy one.) < 1533681383 456963 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Iguasu" perhaps? < 1533681421 385562 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, for me that is, because it's the same as a latin "U" would be in this style) < 1533681612 390768 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jiglava" it looks like < 1533681628 604758 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could be confusing letters of course < 1533681686 781208 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another hard letter. "Kël'n" < 1533681804 707018 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another hard one (it looks easy, but I'm sure it's hard to write in a way that I can read it unambiguously too) "Labraziâ" wait, you lifted your pen during that "r" I think < 1533681824 556344 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see later in the video if that's how "r" is supposed to work, I guess < 1533681956 34954 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Merkurij" and I think this time you didn't lift your pen during either "r", but you did during "k", which looks more reasonable. Also, that's a scary example name to me. < 1533682004 577930 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. the lower case "n" does look hard, good thing you wrote it three times here. < 1533682037 330335 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nil" three letters? I feel shortcharged for my no money :-) < 1533682087 70876 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the first lowercase "o" the final form? < 1533682158 249028 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that's interesting, in Hungarian if I write proper cursive, I always use the second form for a top connection or final, and an entirely different form of "o" for the low connection < 1533682187 343153 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not even "o" is the same in russian and latin? no, I can't believe that. it's probably just different in different styles of cursive. < 1533682195 250206 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1533682239 550073 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533682242 225492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oblako Oorta" < 1533682265 186708 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(placenames can be strange) < 1533682291 731459 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Palau" easy < 1533682301 585217 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, easy because your mousewriting is really good < 1533682351 178846 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be able to read a word of my own handwriting at first, I think, so there's a cost for the ideal < 1533682381 957770 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have to do multiple tries of the same word each time and an ISO-9 transcription too so I can read it back < 1533682400 863771 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ugly, but a step towards the goal I'll never reach < 1533682423 27108 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I intend to spend my practice time on cubing, not russian writing < 1533682427 447712 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it at least < 1533682506 440253 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rodiniâ" but I'm not sure in this one < 1533682573 539874 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Salnce" I think. < 1533682585 682632 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll stop the video here and continue to watch the rest some other time < 1533682588 570972 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's too late < 1533682595 363583 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's nice so far < 1533682622 443212 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably have to rewatch it too after I watch the whole thing, to notice more stuff about the letters < 1533682672 79577 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much so far, aarseniv (and I hope you can figure out which comments are for you and which for int-e) < 1533682737 823011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rodinia_reconstruction.jpg < 1533682786 602590 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you can't read ISO-9, which is quite possible since you need that stuff to find books or get information about books in library catalogs in Hungary and many other countries where library catalogs use latin letter transcriptions for literally everything < 1533682848 242583 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit strange, because in Hungary, probably more people could read the printed cyrillic than the ISO-9 transcription, but perhaps it's a tradition from when they don't have russian typewriters for library catalog slips < 1533682866 222316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: not sure whether this is directed at me, but the ISO-9 is really confusing to me < 1533682884 389461 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, that's directed at aarseniv mostly < 1533682944 807402 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nljqdysiamlywkrh JOIN :#esoteric < 1533682979 515916 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, aarseniv (but int-e too if you care), if you can't read ISO-9, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9 has a full table comprising the cyrillic letters in most languages that use them, and < 1533683075 805732 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Russian#Transliteration_table has a table for Russian alphabet only (plus obsolate letters in bottom rows), look at the column with heading "ISO9:1995; GOST 2002(A)" < 1533683087 999609 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want this second one for the Russian I type < 1533683145 651047 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that if "Я" is transliterated anything but "Â" then you're looking at the wrong column. That one is very important for the library catalogs, and appears in my transcripts too obviously < 1533683231 932397 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is good that libraries use this sane system, because the ones that use "Ja" for that and "j" and "a" for other letters are a bit annoying to say the least, and so are the ones that use "ya" and "y" and "a" respectively < 1533683300 965475 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except obviously there have to be standards for printing these passports that always have your name in ascii letters, but that's not what a library catalog transcription aims for < 1533683560 356111 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid anecdote: there are also cyrillization systems, to transcribe latin to a local alphabet. When I was in Macedonia, back before they were full EU members so they had a bit stricter rules for visitors, I changed cash from I don't know what currency to the local currency. < 1533683667 111966 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cash converting agent was required to give me a printed receipt that includes my name as it appears in the passport. My name has a Hungarian "zs", which he transcribed to macedonian as "ЗС", which was probably by the transcription rules he used, but looked riddiculous to me. < 1533683688 712051 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It obviously doesn't matter what he writes to the receipt, which is why I said it was a stupid anecdote. < 1533683705 415392 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533683731 853988 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO-9 is Russian-centric, so Russian transcribed with it actually looks relatively good, but most other languages transcribed with ISO-9 look horrible. < 1533683785 292178 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily in library book catalogs in *Hungary*, it is much more common to find Russian names or titles than names or titles from other languages, because of the effects of the Soviet Union suppressing a lot of local languages, < 1533683877 796295 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very rarely you can find books in Ukranian or Croatian or Belarussian, with title presumably in those languages, but I don't look at the title much so it doesn't matter. I have yet to see a Macedonian one. < 1533683926 682153 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've also seen ones marked as Serbo-Croatian. < 1533683956 911617 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Serbian is usually not transcribed by ISO-9, but by serbian latin, which happen to coincide in all except one letter the serbian "j" < 1533683975 625661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533683984 482190 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, they don't coincide of course < 1533683995 71001 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they never clash other than at the serbian "j" < 1533684036 708111 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533684043 210532 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the clash is only a theoretical problem, and not being able to automatically decide which words are transcriptions from what language is a much more serious theoretical problem < 1533684046 229004 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night now < 1533684087 715857 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, technically, from which group of languages using the same transcription system, including identity for all latin letter languages as the transcription system) < 1533684134 287647 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if Chinese or Japanese transcription is involved, you're in even more trouble < 1533684152 986068 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even automatically untranscribe that, although there are pretty good approximation algorithms now < 1533684263 728279 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from transcribing between different countries of kanji, I have heard of only two transcription systems that promise to transcribe most Japanese texts to a limited alphabet, < 1533684334 657062 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both are systems for extended Japanese braille methods for transcribing kanji, and one I've only seen as vague descriptions, for the other I've seen somewhat extended descriptions (I never sought a full list) and it seems nicely done except that it's REALLY fucking crowded with practically zero redundancy < 1533684396 965448 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It translates to backwards 8-point braille, where the two extra dots are *above* the normal six dots, which I don't think is used anywhere other than this one system, and doesn't even have a Unicode encoding. < 1533684439 683810 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille_kanji by the way < 1533684473 546127 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uses the extra upper two dots only to mark kanji, with the upper left set at the first cell that encodes a kanji and the upper right set for the last cell. < 1533684528 653247 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each kanji has at most one encoding (luckily) which can be one cell, two cells, three cells, I don't know the upper limit, tries to be somewhat mnemonic, but the one and two cell spaces are REALLY crowded, giving no redundancy in kanji < 1533684706 529314 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normal braille kanji is already so crowded that literally all 64 possible six-point cells are used to mean something, and even this way it needs extra cells to mark dakuten and switches to and from katakana and to arabic digits and to romaji < 1533684728 976375 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's some even more horrible hacks that I think I erased from my memory < 1533684767 705040 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet this system, if it actually lives up to its promises, would be a very good base for a faithful transcription system of Japanese to latin script (with punctuations) < 1533684786 288688 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as far as I know, there is no such transcription system < 1533684833 702835 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could also be used as base for a transcription system from Japanese to a funny script that's made of kana-only plus overbars for indicating kana that stand for kanji, plus some punctuation < 1533684895 772088 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kana part and simple japanese punctuation would be identity-transformed, and the kanji transcription could be typed on a keyboard or transmitted through morse code or signal flags or teletype or < 1533684960 689568 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an automatic transcription, make it easier for European people to read digital Japanese texts with kanji or handwrite them without having to learn the calligraphy, although that one is probably so taboo that nobody would attempt to popularize it < 1533684967 670528 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not in this century at least < 1533684974 538812 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I can dream, right? < 1533685035 964580 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, transcribing kanji for the blind is a noble goal, but for all the rest they would never use such a system now < 1533685058 23826 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in a steampunk level technology fantasy world they would have developped such a system < 1533685116 279424 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no teletypes could handle kanji directly, but the teletype operator can look up kanji in a table (that he eventually learns by heart since it's mnemonic) and transmit text with kanji faithfully, which is better than writing all telex messages with kana only < 1533685140 573884 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I said good night like a long time ago < 1533685151 67796 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1533685641 953538 :averell9!~averell@91.184.222.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533686003 505229 :averell9!~averell@91.184.222.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533686144 530076 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric