< 1533859290 900694 :YuGiOhJCJ!~YuGiOhJCJ@161.22.72.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533859319 152293 :YuGiOhJCJ!~YuGiOhJCJ@161.22.72.109 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533859445 386832 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533859947 833920 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bivuhqcsbbipczve JOIN :#esoteric < 1533861677 113212 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533862211 289781 :Sigyn22!~Sigyn@186.147.123.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533862318 473447 :Sigyn22!~Sigyn@186.147.123.162 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533862354 301776 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533863106 600834 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533863200 762384 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533863308 306758 :Gregor`!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1533863537 183636 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533863979 308722 :Gregor!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533865583 72776 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533865865 476851 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: MEANDERING CHICKEN < 1533866376 608593 :Zooklubba0!~Zooklubba@115.167.123.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533866452 111349 :Zooklubba0!~Zooklubba@115.167.123.165 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533866646 353651 :meti24!~meti@201.243.243.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533866671 642370 :meti24!~meti@201.243.243.80 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533866737 890649 :ululate!~ululate@103.231.217.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533866916 682590 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533867114 641209 :ululate!~ululate@103.231.217.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1533867177 666723 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533867617 815457 :gildarts_!~gildarts_@14.102.18.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533867620 864299 :gildarts_!~gildarts_@14.102.18.230 NICK :Guest62181 < 1533867973 543832 :Guest62181!~gildarts_@14.102.18.230 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533867978 821855 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I dismissed Julia language just because I thought it was just for science work < 1533868380 915160 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus is an inefficient model for computing w.r.t physical implementations, change my view. < 1533868630 565716 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533869219 384393 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.90.2386&rep=rep1&type=pdf < 1533869295 704263 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :brief summary? a skim shows this as improving beta reduction. < 1533869319 481549 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a massively parallel lambda evaluator < 1533869339 67387 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this technique can run on a gpu and make e.g. pure lambda calculus arithmetic feasible < 1533869349 381192 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. that doesn't change the fact that lambda calculus is an inefficient model for computing w.r.t physical implementations. < 1533869354 999101 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it? < 1533869366 916187 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, no. imagine you were to design a lambda calculus processor. < 1533869381 190176 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like a gpu < 1533869384 338672 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC works over lambda terms, which are term trees. < 1533869384 356196 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be fast < 1533869388 749582 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a tree < 1533869401 916928 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are LC terms not trees. < 1533869422 951493 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you make them graphs as in the paper i linked to, in order to do very fast parallel reductionm < 1533869447 231418 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't change the fact that term trees are LC's native representation. < 1533869456 13594 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is significant because things like e.g. variable capture, de bruijin indices, shifting all go away < 1533869458 861489 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does change that fact < 1533869463 891297 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "native representation" mean? < 1533869488 309910 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the native representation of `\x. x+1` is a list of characters that you can parse in to whatever < 1533869498 37922 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you like parsing it in to a tree doesn't mean it is a tree < 1533869501 709339 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that you don't use a graph, you use term trees. nested LC terms. < 1533869512 689169 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the trouble with manipulating lambda terms points to the fact that they are not trees < 1533869512 858994 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless, show me some graph structured memory. < 1533869542 673924 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the problems that de bruijin indices were made to solve, and the things you have to do wit shifting and unshifting in order to avoid variable capture < 1533869550 239981 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I say "physical implementation" I mean the entire processor needs to do one thing and one thing only: reduce lambda expressions. < 1533869554 459767 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a graph representation, a lambda binder connects directly to the usage sites of the variable < 1533869572 55847 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the big picture here is that lambda reduction looks very different from your current mental model < 1533869575 51862 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to do that, one needs some kind of tree or graph-structured memory for evaluation. < 1533869591 7932 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can do it on a cellular automata-like processor < 1533869597 828472 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1533869600 397813 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :where rewrites are purely local < 1533869663 530776 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that I find attractive about TMs is that their state is almost entirely linear, sans the state tables. < 1533869691 883847 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be represented as 2D tables. with LC I find that you need tree or graph structured memory, regardless of whether you're doing naive or optimized reductions. < 1533869712 831137 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper i linked to discusses a formalism called interaction nets < 1533869729 630364 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, which requires, first and foremost, graph structured memory to reduce arbitrary lambda expressions. < 1533869736 420837 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a graph rewriting model of computation where rewrites are purely local, and so a large graph can be processed in parallel since portions of the graph are owned independently < 1533869763 288973 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph is encoded as an array < 1533869772 960892 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :portions of the array are rewritten in parallel, like a pixel shader < 1533869779 643520 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory is flat < 1533869797 777827 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you've now just reduced it to a random access machine with a particular program. < 1533869803 880283 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not random access < 1533869807 891161 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, rewrites are local < 1533869815 635651 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a big array divided in to say, 5 chunks < 1533869821 848851 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not random access, causality stays inside each chunk < 1533869871 672783 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your process is... convert a lambda expression into an interaction net, reduce said interaction net with this giant parallel local rewriting thing. < 1533869874 791025 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :information propagates across the graph in a wave like a game of life glider for example < 1533869909 130619 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like an awful long way to go just for LC. < 1533869932 310649 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/MaiaVictor/parallel_lambda_computer_tests has a small prototype of this scheme < 1533869946 334489 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language? < 1533869947 648658 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine, but he's also working on something similar < 1533869951 951688 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is in javascript < 1533869964 591301 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that one is cuda < 1533869967 81417 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's another in javascript < 1533869969 711140 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol I was gonna say. < 1533869972 855310 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :funky lookin' JS. < 1533870003 568213 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what exactly goes into the process of translating LC into interaction nets, per se. < 1533870033 187356 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I guess my point is you're not really reducing LC expressions, you're reducing some compiled form of LC expressions. < 1533870049 160007 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I can actually go out and build an LBA. < 1533870070 115070 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and build the state tables and so on and so forth. without any compilation steps. if I really had the mindfulness to. < 1533870099 810293 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what point does building an optimizing evaluator turn the thing you're evaluating into an entirely different model of computation. < 1533870143 582801 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533870169 132931 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can say interaction nets are the real model of computation here < 1533870188 158241 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of my point. < 1533870196 348021 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if lambda calculus has a thin translation to it, like C does to x86, does it matter? < 1533870224 757353 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, it does, because this is a model of computation we're talking about. x86 is pretty far away from a TM. < 1533870251 367212 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't a TM, it's another machine model < 1533870269 594610 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had built something like Laconic and called it a model of computation, but really it needs to be compiled down to a TM in order to actually carry out the computation, the model of computation isn't Laconic, it's the TM. < 1533870283 49700 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is you can give a straightforward cost semantics for lambda calculus and realize it on a physical machine < 1533870284 666611 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was making a mismatch between x86 and a TM. < 1533870317 218373 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, models of computation are often abstract < 1533870319 858019 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but that's not.. my point. you're not really evaluating the lambda calculus. you're evaluating instances of interaction nets. < 1533870339 43337 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the claim "LC is an efficient model of computation w.r.t physical implementation" is pretty bogus. < 1533870345 674518 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going to use the word model here, it doesn't matter what it really runs on, what matters is whether you're able to give a cost semantics for expressions < 1533870376 59390 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd argue the opposite, as actually implementing models does help. < 1533870405 28307 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of why I hate the name "lisp machine", too. < 1533870419 776262 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's not really a lisp machine. it's a random access machine with a lisp interface. < 1533870437 645614 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you found the JS snippet yet? really curious because that CUDA looked interesting. < 1533870459 79872 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/MaiaVictor/LPU < 1533870496 522444 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533870522 632815 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. okay. < 1533870549 275671 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish it was a little more well commented but I doubt this is for documentation purposes. < 1533870566 8279 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can check the github issues thread linked for a back and forth discussing it < 1533870572 635650 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Explanation" in the README < 1533870596 97491 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy it links to chorasimilarity. < 1533870608 806687 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get the idea you don't really need the js, and anyway he does it naively so you'd need to change it to realize the parallelism < 1533870654 287946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing to keep in mind is that this is using the good version of cellular automata, not the kind that's popular < 1533870682 386221 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual cellular automata are too hard to build anything with because the rules are like [A B C] -> B < 1533870697 893964 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind used here is a block cellular automata where rules are like [A B C] -> [A B C] < 1533870707 329490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what're the rules for reducing interaction nets, and how do LC expressions compile to them? < 1533870725 276623 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :still looking through this, but picking the concept apart from a github issue is... < 1533870731 824355 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really all that fun. < 1533870762 272081 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e24d/ad59709fef715e512a9caebd781d0b029075.pdf the first few sections of this are good to explain it < 1533870781 627227 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do it in the chat but it's a bit involved and i can't draw diagrams < 1533870794 452458 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, I figured. < 1533870811 780034 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. why not just a concise explanation. < 1533870815 128182 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a node in a graph as a big ball with little pegs on it < 1533870820 333441 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. ports. < 1533870822 856227 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that "bop it" game? < 1533870827 125011 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so there's one special port < 1533870836 657809 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :when two nodes touch on this port they interact < 1533870853 855110 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this keeps all interaction local, meaning you can divide up memory among independent processors < 1533870859 917787 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, define interact. < 1533870865 18584 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that node can't be interacting with anyone else at the same time < 1533870871 641730 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, two nodes are touching on their "principal" port < 1533870876 443653 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have other ports, say two others < 1533870882 410086 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :those ports are also connected to nodes < 1533870886 977560 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do these ports represent bound variables. < 1533870889 631041 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unbound ones. < 1533870899 999935 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :during an "interaction", you can take ownership of all of those ports and rewire them as you please < 1533870921 16643 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can make new nodes with new connections, as long as the total "interface" of connections remains the same < 1533870930 228928 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they don't < 1533870952 920329 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. can you show me some computations? maybe something as simple as adding two numbers? < 1533870967 235361 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to do it is to have a node representing a lambda, with a principal port for interaction, another port that connects to each usage of the variable, and another port connecting to the lambda's body < 1533870985 98188 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.112.2822&rep=rep1&type=pdf < 1533870987 814385 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, this one is easy < 1533870999 974391 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does cons-lists, basic arithmetic etc < 1533871032 899249 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. so are nodes typed? < 1533871041 545421 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nvm. < 1533871049 534637 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like lambda calculus, you can develop typed and untyped formalisms < 1533871051 214203 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they "kind of are" by their shape, it looks. < 1533871069 497635 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533871071 634604 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I'll take a look at this and get back to you. < 1533871092 356510 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like an interesting formalism, I'd like to pick your brain about how you'd do it in a flat memory space. < 1533871234 585808 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk for like 10. < 1533871629 491195 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1533872385 211533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1533872504 783435 :x49F!~x49F@pool-100-8-59-211.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533872557 349897 :x49F!~x49F@pool-100-8-59-211.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533872699 526663 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: so you're saying you checked a paper dictionary, and wiktionary is definitely wrong about a common italian word? <-- technically i knew parlerò was wrong from wikipedia's phonology article (ò is always open), but the scanned paper one in google books had other examples like parlerèbbe (where the accent is _not_ usually written, and means it's open so wiktionary gets that too wrong) < 1533872769 129772 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although parlerebbe is a bit fishy, there are more google hits for parlerébbe... < 1533872794 470779 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only a handful of each though.) < 1533872813 76031 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it might include OCR errors, seeing as there are google books hits.) < 1533872886 333965 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book btw https://books.google.no/books?id=Oox0b3OPJIwC&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=parler%C3%A9mo&source=bl&ots=RQmfWUInLy&sig=zTvv_OpILl6_vCc5z3DqEEAYo6w&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjs5Y7Ex-HcAhXR0aYKHcLvA8IQ6AEwBnoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=parler%C3%A9mo&f=true < 1533872932 424160 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i searched for parlerémo first, which wiktionary actually gets right) < 1533873009 854221 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: doesn't Italian have some default convention for omitting the stress accent even in dictionaries if it matches a simple default rule? <-- plausible, it would probably be when it's the second last syllable and not e or o. < 1533873049 692880 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i think that would be a bad idea for wiktionary because then you wouldn't know if the editor has forgotten to add the info or not < 1533873388 929234 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :back. < 1533873424 400417 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533873625 266408 :fractal12!~fractal@2804:2728:100:168:d515:f3dc:96e:bd8b JOIN :#esoteric < 1533873665 390027 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533873672 664836 :fractal12!~fractal@2804:2728:100:168:d515:f3dc:96e:bd8b QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533873804 630411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: okay. starting to see the applications of this. now how exactly would I implement these rewriting rules. would I just have an array of nodes with a set of ports linked to other nodes? < 1533873922 857046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a node has a tag and let's say 3 ports max < 1533873939 161610 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each port, you need to know what node it's connected to, and also what port on that node < 1533873962 246685 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two nodes are connected on their principal ports (let's say port 0), they interact < 1533873976 547671 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the trick about doing this in parallel < 1533873991 326407 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to make nodes only interact with adjacent nodes in this array < 1533874005 900825 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. so that involves some shuffling, I assume. < 1533874010 93202 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're familiar with like, a convolution, or an IR filter, you can scan down the array in blocks in parallel < 1533874025 981689 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd tile up the whole array evenly in to independent chunks < 1533874029 286413 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say 4 nodes per chunk < 1533874043 48854 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two nodes are adjacent and connected by principal ports, you do the rewrite rule given by their tags < 1533874054 58472 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you saw wit e.g. append and cons < 1533874068 774863 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. but, okay, let's step back and not assume I want parallel evaluation. < 1533874070 507587 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're not connected, then they need to move around and find the thing they are connected to < 1533874075 620512 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1533874096 191162 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can just have a big array of nodes < 1533874097 908475 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have an array of nodes. each node has a finite number of ports at max. < 1533874112 554668 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Node { tag int, fstId int, fstPort int, sndId int, sndPort int, auxId int, auxPort int } < 1533874117 71862 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1533874121 58793 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say I have a rule that if two X tagged nodes are connecd to eachother, they get erased. < 1533874137 612228 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens is, you have an array of pairs of node IDs < 1533874149 57259 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :which represent the nodes you have found that are connected by their principal ports < 1533874154 89849 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1533874158 790628 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an API that connects two nodes < 1533874166 489770 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :like connect(fstId, fstPort, sndId, sndPort) < 1533874173 914817 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if fstPort == 0 and sndPort == 0, then they go in that array < 1533874178 193691 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're gonna interact < 1533874182 386703 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha. < 1533874199 669508 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each "tick", you have however many pairs in that array < 1533874213 752878 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size of that array is the "available parallelism" which is an interesting metric that lets you measure cost < 1533874226 541749 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you go through the array and do the rule for each pair < 1533874228 509102 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, "here's how many things are going to interact at this step." < 1533874234 151072 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rule will involve more calls to `connect()` < 1533874241 591626 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will probably put more things in the array < 1533874247 139801 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you see how it keeps going < 1533874294 823719 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let's say I have the cons/append example. < 1533874306 811752 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I'd have to say is "take these two nodes, they're connected by their principal ports." < 1533874342 156129 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :append's first port is the principal, second is i guess v, then w < 1533874353 279018 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons have a principal, and x and u < 1533874359 859617 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rewrite it such that append's port 1 (the top port) is now linked to cons's port 2." < 1533874367 201639 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when they connect by principal, you own all of those places in the array < 1533874367 983646 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on and so on for all ports in that rule. < 1533874373 250524 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can rewrite them < 1533874385 538547 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you", i mean the independent process responsible for rewriting that pair < 1533874406 467888 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to focus on how you'd just step by step rewrite this. what your lhs and rhs of a given rule looks like in memory. < 1533874438 71764 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons' u port is a member of that node struct < 1533874444 542974 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the id it's connect to is append's id < 1533874454 684241 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the port it's connected to is the number of append's w port < 1533874462 12362 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, adding and removing nodes. < 1533874484 1881 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec. < 1533874484 107744 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the really simple way is to just have a free list of IDs < 1533874535 442608 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd have some kind of node like "drop" or "erase" in that pdf, where part of the rule is returning the id of the node you interact with to the free list < 1533874666 407520 :blacksyke4!~blacksyke@zaq31fa6346.zaq.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533874771 307805 :blacksyke4!~blacksyke@zaq31fa6346.zaq.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533874898 539292 :__idiot__!~goirc@pool-100-8-59-211.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533874908 937789 :__idiot__!~goirc@pool-100-8-59-211.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533874948 774641 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: back. so, adding and removing nodes. if I said you could only specify a rule using structure initialization syntax in C, what would you give me for cons/append's rule. < 1533875017 989695 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the rules are mutating integers in an array < 1533875047 683025 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bunch of stuff like `graph.node[fst].ports[2][1] = graph.node[snd].ports[0][2]` or whatever < 1533875051 834463 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. but you need to store your lhs and rhs in some kind of format. < 1533875063 994632 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would that look like. < 1533875066 466584 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine 5 assignments like that one stacked on top of each other < 1533875069 870277 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a function > 1533875082 352160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hash function14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57297 5* 03A 5* (+237) 10I can't explain that... < 1533875086 762132 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a 2d matrix where row and columns are node tags < 1533875096 711196 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the element inside the matrix is a function pointer implementing the rewrite rule > 1533875103 224745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hash function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57298&oldid=57297 5* 03A 5* (+132) 10 < 1533875106 259186 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the body is a bunch of assignments like the one i just wrote > 1533875117 913551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hash function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57299&oldid=57298 5* 03A 5* (-132) 10 < 1533875147 792602 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, new plan. how would your rewrite rules look textually. < 1533875160 789562 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that description not clear? :S < 1533875198 87964 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the matrix lets you map a pair of ints to a function pointer, the body is just assignments that shuffle around the node ports like the one i wrote < 1533875199 857069 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it really wasn't. your rules are your code that manipulates this graph structure, yeah? so you need a rule format to load into your interpreter, so you can use those rules to rewrite the interaction net. < 1533875210 907759 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't need to load any rules < 1533875214 971627 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1533875217 388070 :gareth__25!~gareth__@41.36.21.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533875223 400870 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is the rules < 1533875228 526047 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you "load" anything in to it? < 1533875242 362668 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how else would I write what it means to append something to a list. < 1533875243 299093 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :does python "load" the python bytecode format, as if it could run anything else? < 1533875261 566079 :gareth__25!~gareth__@41.36.21.142 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533875263 912854 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the in-memory representation of that append rule? can you give me a straight answer? < 1533875268 564595 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wrote it < 1533875272 551347 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote some C code. < 1533875273 949520 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assignment above < 1533875285 712340 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of those, shuffling the correct ports from the diagram < 1533875334 746911 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the premise that I'm getting from that document I linked is that I can write rules, lhs and rhs, to rewrite portions of an interaction net. you follow? < 1533875341 672100 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I linked/you linked < 1533875352 828435 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, i've written it in go < 1533875355 32508 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while back < 1533875357 604127 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you read that? < 1533875361 975691 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just follow me here. < 1533875375 771068 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write rules like that, yeah? they aren't hard-coded. < 1533875384 165402 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't you hard code them < 1533875392 174836 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :does python load rules for other languages very often < 1533875396 932168 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't python. < 1533875402 414989 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, whatever language it is < 1533875407 212493 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about what you're trying to do < 1533875415 872669 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to write some kind of meta-interpreter for ANY set of rules < 1533875416 966936 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, so you just hard code the rules you want. < 1533875417 173591 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why?? < 1533875426 442510 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, because interaction nets are supposed to be general. < 1533875427 953619 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make the rules that correspond to your language < 1533875434 849816 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like writing a bytecode interpreter for one lang < 1533875441 917915 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao. < 1533875445 935215 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you ever want to make a "general" bytecode vm framework < 1533875449 975573 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, have fun with your interaction nets. < 1533875451 694445 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can, but it's harder < 1533875464 476698 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :see it's not hard to write a rule-based interpreter. < 1533875475 185035 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you load some rules, those rules mutate state. < 1533875482 270504 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so what's the problem < 1533875497 132166 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hard-code your rules. I'm asking you to show me what it might look like if you didn't. < 1533875518 936386 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a dynamic language and just load more code whenever < 1533875523 993720 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah nvm lmao. < 1533875534 141444 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing it the hard way idgi < 1533875551 316325 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's going to lead to a lot of nasty code for parsing some sad little rule format < 1533875552 565636 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that the hard way when the document you linked pretty much goes over writing rules for rewriting interaction nets. < 1533875565 633270 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you write the rules, in whatever implementation lang you've chosen < 1533875589 590395 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, imagine the paper wasn't about interaction nets < 1533875592 647487 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be about term rewriting < 1533875600 718872 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE of the examples would be this weird thing called "the lambda calculus" < 1533875605 849857 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I hard-code state tables for TMs when writing a TM interpreter? no, because that'd be fucking dumb. < 1533875607 640852 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus is one particular term rewriting system < 1533875614 264511 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I load state tables from a file so I can simulate any arbitrary TM. < 1533875626 662958 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nobody's done that for interaction nets then I'd ask why. < 1533875630 428227 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also just write other state tables in your lang and use things like high order functions to swap them out < 1533875634 816585 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have done it < 1533875655 502990 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i was describing was not going in that direction at all, is where the confusion came from i guess < 1533875661 578655 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533875675 329403 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I see where you were headed, but if I was just going to hard-code rules I might as well go write a lisp interpreter. < 1533875698 326402 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see what the more general form would look like, where you could specify "here's what appending looks like." < 1533875709 905707 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "here's this nice little language that rides on top of interaction nets but really doesn't need to." < 1533875723 56854 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/inarch/ia2d < 1533875759 270422 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a notation for writing general rewrite rules < 1533875764 231092 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :> We write the rule for an active pair between nodes alpha and beta as alpha(x_1, ..., x_n) >< beta(y_1, ..., y_m) => [N], < 1533875766 579305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:84: error: parse error on input ‘,’ < 1533875782 180788 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1533875783 155904 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a file with a bunch of expressions like that and then load it < 1533875805 785878 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do natural numbers and lists later in that readme < 1533875826 816967 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that's what I was kind of looking for. you'd need variable matching and binding to actually do that. < 1533875843 589566 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all compiles down to what i was talking about earlier though < 1533875854 918127 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have a universal interaction net that runs this stuff < 1533875860 266416 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it still uses things like variables to link up arbitrary ports. < 1533875866 33833 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1533875891 597863 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have an interaction net as a compilation target for those rule expressions < 1533875893 652011 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what they do < 1533875914 348567 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone here familiar with the Jelly golfing language? <-- i've not learned it, but there's a jelly channel on stackexchange chat < 1533875924 993698 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh stackexchange has a chat? < 1533875938 597946 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how exactly do you construct append's rule, then. just explicitly refer to certain ports? < 1533875940 400533 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it does. < 1533875944 485347 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone mentioned the "jelly chat" on their github issues but i didn't know where it was < 1533875967 400085 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: let's say we have a minimal interaction net called the "inteaction combinators" < 1533875980 851668 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're gonna...gasp...hardcode those rules < 1533875984 970700 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric ::V < 1533875988 247503 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :then read those expressions and compile them to it < 1533876004 187319 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. < 1533876039 836439 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a fan of turing machines, you know you can have one that simulates any other < 1533876047 604504 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1533876056 506872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a fan of TMs per se.. maybe string rewriting systems.) < 1533876078 723065 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly due to movement of large regions of symbols. < 1533876389 804501 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/32533/jelly although you need some SE rep to get on there < 1533876436 210428 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not extremely active < 1533876483 841794 :JStoker20!~JStoker@184.22.109.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533876519 982181 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snark exchange < 1533876752 374889 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i can't even chat < 1533876756 22258 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1533876801 258566 :JStoker20!~JStoker@184.22.109.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533877110 503689 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just answer some questions and you'll have enough rep in no time!" < 1533878700 13227 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have to be PPCG rep specifically, i'm not sure < 1533878909 126316 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps, i meant "just answer some questions on our low traffic site, where nobody votes, and you'll have enough rep eventually" < 1533878927 213976 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf, PCG is not really low traffic < 1533878929 793463 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1533879892 297409 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533880161 261881 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533881023 771413 :sjohnson10!~sjohnson@131.108.166-162.netwaytelecon.com.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1533881239 404295 :sjohnson10!~sjohnson@131.108.166-162.netwaytelecon.com.br QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533881938 511165 :exio425!~exio4@p6797241-ipngn28101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533881974 618433 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1533881978 594718 :exio425!~exio4@p6797241-ipngn28101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533882431 773415 :grit2!~grit2@179.124.240.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533882447 716598 :grit2!~grit2@179.124.240.181 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533882660 590034 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1533882685 351496 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1533883844 181245 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the faq i suspect it's not actually just PPCG rep, it's either total SE rep or the highest rep on any SE site. < 1533884032 669470 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also it's just 20) < 1533884069 52403 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you need two upvotes. < 1533884502 12444 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533884558 530992 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533885087 783105 :qassim0!~qassim@115.221.237.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533885095 492373 :qassim0!~qassim@115.221.237.35 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533885116 298955 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1533886100 68833 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1533887495 341369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57300&oldid=57257 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10Fixed error in syntax for Truth Machine < 1533887673 751363 :WhitePhosphorus6!~WhitePhos@FL1-219-107-173-104.aic.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533887698 695422 :WhitePhosphorus6!~WhitePhos@FL1-219-107-173-104.aic.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) > 1533887700 866606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57301&oldid=57300 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-1) 10Actually fixed syntax, Confused it for a while loop. > 1533887763 759915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57302&oldid=57296 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-2) 10/* Surtic */ Updated version with proper syntax. > 1533888086 643764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57303&oldid=57301 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine */ Ok seriously I triple-checked, This is perfect. > 1533888140 877520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57304&oldid=57302 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* Surtic */ Triple-Checked, Definitely no syntax errors in this. > 1533891136 848868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57305&oldid=57303 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+18) 10Added a limit for sake of limitations. > 1533891438 188655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57306&oldid=57305 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-18) 10/* C */ Nevermind on the limitation < 1533891640 559239 :interd0me26!~interd0me@41.216.54.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533891650 486150 :interd0me26!~interd0me@41.216.54.90 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533892456 836785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: will we be getting an olist today twh < 1533892909 745746 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893003 33669 :kline7!~kline@171.221.51.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893041 81821 :kline7!~kline@171.221.51.75 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533893082 362976 :shreyansh_k10!~shreyansh@101.251.213.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893089 503297 :shreyansh_k10!~shreyansh@101.251.213.18 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533893140 704893 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893141 2874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1533893141 2955 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893153 968484 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533893731 326727 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893808 303979 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mercurial ui is so terrible :P (seriously though, why does hg pull -u not do an update when nothing was pulled?) < 1533893894 631581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This comes up fairly frequently in my usage... I hg pull -u and it refuses to update because some local file is modified ... so I fix that and then I rerun the failing command.) < 1533893972 681116 :mundus2018!~mundus201@177.43.25.254.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1533893990 377360 :mundus2018!~mundus201@177.43.25.254.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533894954 743624 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1533896184 918557 :cods22!~cods@191.199.216.228 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533896224 175812 :cods22!~cods@191.199.216.228 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533896937 719707 :ktechmidas!~ktechmida@220-158-56-166.east.ap.gmo-isp.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533896942 337224 :ktechmidas!~ktechmida@220-158-56-166.east.ap.gmo-isp.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533897783 938692 :krushia!~krushia@LFbn-MON-1-984-105.w86-227.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1533898166 5682 :krushia!~krushia@LFbn-MON-1-984-105.w86-227.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1533898869 645913 :dfgg15!~dfgg@36.85.60.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533898879 785808 :dfgg15!~dfgg@36.85.60.128 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533899238 831162 :christophegx!~christoph@184.170.25.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533899246 127561 :christophegx!~christoph@184.170.25.160 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533900505 397028 :zz_ka6sox!~zz_ka6sox@77.92.125.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533900531 988407 :zz_ka6sox!~zz_ka6sox@77.92.125.243 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533900562 301061 :l2y!~l2y@170.231.97.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533900950 192497 :l2y!~l2y@170.231.97.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533902644 298105 :Selfsigned7!~Selfsigne@static-200-105-160-142.acelerate.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533902973 974207 :Selfsigned7!~Selfsigne@static-200-105-160-142.acelerate.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533903107 786082 :phryxam!~Phryxam@2600:1700:b7e0:8320:f474:8ac1:d76f:fa36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533903110 101079 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bivuhqcsbbipczve QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1533903169 373859 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533903584 169081 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1533904026 914149 :trisk14!~trisk@177.151.39.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533904037 28145 :trisk14!~trisk@177.151.39.107 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533904101 290964 :phryxam!~Phryxam@2600:1700:b7e0:8320:f474:8ac1:d76f:fa36 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533904421 298086 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt JOIN :#esoteric < 1533906600 491319 :Asoka19!~Asoka@i61-199-146-212.s41.a010.ap.plala.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533906616 134384 :Asoka19!~Asoka@i61-199-146-212.s41.a010.ap.plala.or.jp QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533906965 346882 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1134 < 1533906966 107951 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1134: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1533907001 502093 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yes < 1533907612 888384 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1533908810 458954 :trqx14!~trqx@221.159.97.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533908828 536159 :trqx14!~trqx@221.159.97.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533910566 210640 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533911000 432697 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533911265 462376 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1533911295 797129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57307&oldid=57021 5* 03Wright 5* (-237) 10Deleted irrelevant example (also the sentence structure in general was just bugging me) < 1533911585 767163 :ecks4!~ecks@220.123.213.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533911699 940886 :ecks4!~ecks@220.123.213.230 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533912806 309994 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nkcufugetzortvkc QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533912824 228200 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-qkvqhuvxwlpvrsal JOIN :#esoteric < 1533914410 332312 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533915861 180130 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533916277 900572 :ilbelkyr15!~ilbelkyr@94.4.40.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533916287 893447 :ilbelkyr15!~ilbelkyr@94.4.40.208 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533916432 37038 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/2031/ < 1533916539 669566 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1533916877 402790 :rodarmor22!~rodarmor@218.67.16.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533916877 727127 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1533916912 162337 :rodarmor22!~rodarmor@218.67.16.223 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533916970 605098 :n0nada17!~n0nada@184.170.37.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533917013 387808 :n0nada17!~n0nada@184.170.37.235 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533917122 200424 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1533917451 911696 :Globalirc21!~Globalirc@82.102.245.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533917451 976001 :Globalirc21!~Globalirc@82.102.245.115 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533917820 934553 :Reincarnate25!~Reincarna@121.145.88.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533917831 370584 :Reincarnate25!~Reincarna@121.145.88.108 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1533917994 685007 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1533918085 682914 :calcul0n1!~calcul0n@105.102.202.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533918101 630656 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of lol stuff in the recent ones there < 1533918112 845531 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/2016/ < 1533918143 146269 :calcul0n1!~calcul0n@105.102.202.116 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533918256 977365 :cyberzeus2!~cyberzeus@115.167.28.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533918299 421508 :cyberzeus2!~cyberzeus@115.167.28.91 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533919589 401124 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533919615 411442 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit < 1533919629 399483 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533919993 906628 :myth0d4!~myth0d@72.252.195.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533920026 791807 :myth0d4!~myth0d@72.252.195.21 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533920785 619538 :norkle12!~norkle@202.44.249.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533920855 177538 :norkle12!~norkle@202.44.249.225 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533921541 814872 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533922840 67728 :MEPB!~MEPB@115.84.91.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533922848 775958 :MEPB!~MEPB@115.84.91.218 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533923739 910096 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533924505 265423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533925064 10403 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a such thing as tsumeshogi-FEN? < 1533925200 3894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533925731 196820 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533926213 762403 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533926285 831394 :rain2!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes seesm to be SFEN < 1533928399 801231 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i ask you a few questions about the jelly golfing language? specifically about the chain rules < 1533928429 678274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: you can try, but I'm not that comfortable with the chain rules < 1533928444 675319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally have to reread the tutorial to try to figure it out, in complex cases < 1533928454 586241 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first chain pattern for monadic chains, `+ × 1 ... (v+ω)×1*` < 1533928469 260431 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't this follow from the rules for `+` and `+ 1`? < 1533928472 607516 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why it's needed < 1533928490 976791 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't have it, you would chop off `+`, then chop off `x 1` and it would be the same (v+w)*1 < 1533928513 360396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if some of the rules were redundant < 1533928554 987844 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm wondering why dyadic chains don't have a rule for `+ F`, is that just because dennis didn't think it was used or becuase it messes something up? < 1533928584 801046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dyadic chains i see why that first rule would lead to a different value than applying rules for `+` and `+ 1` < 1533928592 181556 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533928608 912855 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd match `+ *` first < 1533928640 841451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: dyad chains tend to be awkward to use, I think the original intention was to do it APL-style and use patterns with { and } to do complex things < 1533928645 817211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that uses so many bytes :-( < 1533928725 647051 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do really like this design though, and i appreciate how it's explained so clearly, as opposed to APL/K which seem to pride themselves on being cryptic < 1533928758 308203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general I find any working with dyad chains in Jelly is painful, and prefer to use monadic chains for basically everything < 1533928825 765766 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533929268 708788 :doaks!~doaks@184.170.38.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533929270 335024 :doaks!~doaks@184.170.38.250 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533930648 337106 :ffernand22!~ffernand@186.178.135.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533930657 277980 :ffernand22!~ffernand@186.178.135.47 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533931770 857269 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1533931794 745376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arrows14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57308&oldid=53838 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (-4) 10Fixed spacing (I think; I really need a monospace font for this) + Ideas cat > 1533933896 947164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57309&oldid=57058 5* 03Wright 5* (+625) 10Added entries < 1533935116 235682 :dindon29!~dindon@95.233.11.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533935396 917257 :dindon29!~dindon@95.233.11.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1533935434 912238 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1533935744 631940 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533936715 586059 :OwenBarfield!~OwenBarfi@109.110.37.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533936739 703160 :OwenBarfield!~OwenBarfi@109.110.37.12 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533937145 414565 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533937484 203291 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533937495 131732 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xiujlkpmmzyvwrkw JOIN :#esoteric < 1533938094 710744 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533938336 145398 :lostnord!~lostnord@6.red-2-137-143.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533938353 395815 :lostnord!~lostnord@6.red-2-137-143.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533938358 637997 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533939958 605035 :Guest59621!~mark-otar@78.152.193.200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533939979 523537 :Guest59621!~mark-otar@78.152.193.200 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533940365 916673 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533941494 121317 :Richard_Cavell!~Richard_C@27.73.90.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533941496 619180 :Richard_Cavell!~Richard_C@27.73.90.241 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533941565 267626 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533942412 534268 :cronic!~cronic@179.124.243.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533942503 688582 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533942604 773720 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533942681 319407 :cronic!~cronic@179.124.243.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533942727 166225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533942742 397010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533942747 668198 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533944391 566997 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostril. < 1533944391 929578 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: what's good about it, but i don't really have much to do < 1533944495 62220 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostrils are good, but you can still eat pizza. < 1533944495 197991 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: and i don't have to. < 1533944503 272968 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: but you can. < 1533944503 522778 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: so there are no answers anywhere, i guess. bummer < 1533944519 429173 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is more than frightened about fungot's sentience
< 1533945458 328619 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533945515 393411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds