< 1537315846 431984 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537316977 74830 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1537318237 707716 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537318330 941360 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537320447 978171 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537320477 836872 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1537321194 872726 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537321241 390640 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1537321536 506669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ALGOL 68 had only const values, which could be pointers to stack-allocated refs to allow for local variables. That seems pretty nice compared to the complexity of lvalues in C. < 1537321540 553970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they had automatic coercion between "ref t" and "t", which seems less nice. On the other hand dereferences everywhere also don't seem great. Is there any language that does something like that better? > 1537323140 86314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Technologic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57676&oldid=57668 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (+195) 10 < 1537323216 951965 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537323350 3504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas and ais523 are the folks who would knkow about that, I guess < 1537323441 530054 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537324135 228401 :HeyCitizen_15!~HeyCitize@mx-ll-180.183.137-134.dynamic.3bb.co.th JOIN :#esoteric < 1537324141 540418 :HeyCitizen_15!~HeyCitize@mx-ll-180.183.137-134.dynamic.3bb.co.th QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537324314 339821 :spooky_d23!~spooky_d@189-93-85-223.3g.claro.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1537324604 831447 :spooky_d23!~spooky_d@189-93-85-223.3g.claro.net.br QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537324682 594671 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1537325102 780785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe this works... welding a cross in Infinifactory: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/if-cross.gif < 1537325182 505347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't infinifactoried so I don't know what's surprising there. < 1537325232 704031 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the timing worked out < 1537325261 197713 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I found this by trial and error with not too much hope of getting it to work. < 1537325338 814226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started today; the occasion was that it's on sale at gog.com < 1537325928 874913 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537325955 812011 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537326007 73232 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537326816 493787 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-078-016-215.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537327621 935761 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-164-233.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1537327801 926034 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1537327801 926084 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1537328496 167928 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jumukqzseynxhfqr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1537328497 512180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no olist < 1537328501 366848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heartbroken :'( < 1537328894 615372 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537329296 993431 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537329964 789616 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537331567 329613 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537331690 674819 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537333894 783312 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1537334409 227847 :nictuku11!~nictuku@197.52.205.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537334445 742774 :nictuku11!~nictuku@197.52.205.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537334493 897063 :Darac21!~Darac@82-149-125-238.wco.wellcom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1537334788 631000 :Darac21!~Darac@82-149-125-238.wco.wellcom.at QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1537337082 564660 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1537338849 307840 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537339581 328401 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537339738 654963 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537340527 380893 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftjfmbtemnpjnfeg JOIN :#esoteric < 1537340582 568509 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537340598 61478 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537341720 494556 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537342677 436506 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537342759 773414 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1537343224 683762 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1537343769 701422 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1537344931 138682 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1537345084 339393 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537345287 34510 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, I only know as much about that algol stuff as I heard here < 1537345331 300425 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1537345391 519902 :genka22!~genka@121.131.113.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537345562 778679 :genka22!~genka@121.131.113.199 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1537346024 281365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Unparseable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57677&oldid=23502 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+1012) 10/* I don't understand something. */ new section < 1537347627 413299 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537348365 416956 :Tesseraction_t!~Tesseract@14.42.237.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537348421 531597 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1537348696 949025 :Tesseraction_t!~Tesseract@14.42.237.202 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537350147 444218 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537351306 686279 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftjfmbtemnpjnfeg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1537351599 493453 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1537351704 576723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: of course the downside of those games for me is that they trigger the "just one more level < 1537351724 56804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" effect, while at the same time allowing one to tweak solutions for a single level forever. < 1537351769 912917 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played until 5am in the morning... < 1537351865 18101 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and I'm thankful for flexible office hours :) < 1537352582 119922 :Mezzmer7!~Mezzmer@33.red-95-120-71.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537352750 727734 :Mezzmer7!~Mezzmer@33.red-95-120-71.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537352914 98313 :weyland|yutani6!~weyland|y@37.211.4.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537352942 575438 :weyland|yutani6!~weyland|y@37.211.4.145 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537353695 665996 :nosomebodies!4f88ad9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.136.173.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537356680 374428 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case anyone has the same problem: to restore contacts to phone memory from a VCS file on the Nokia 150 phone, the menu entry only shows up if the VCS file is already on the SD card in the right filename, and the right filename is "/backup.dat", unlike the previous model Nokia 216, on which it was "/Backup/backup.dat". < 1537359377 276341 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537359479 756931 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1537359627 131634 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1537360070 793512 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537360106 612102 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537360146 293353 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537360160 947038 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537360454 418672 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.139.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537361845 445805 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537362394 721194 :tensorpudding24!~tensorpud@203.134.195.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537362434 174394 :tensorpudding24!~tensorpud@203.134.195.205 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537363248 211481 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1537366488 540946 :nosomebodies!4f88ad9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.136.173.159 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1537368351 201588 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1537368682 390895 :nyarlu16!~nyarlu@218.158.250.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537368968 710392 :nyarlu16!~nyarlu@218.158.250.178 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1537369070 295229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Functional()14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57678 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+338) 10/* Is my example correct? */ new section > 1537369580 112865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Functional()14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57679&oldid=57678 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+91) 10Added something that I didn't add first. < 1537369862 610348 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537370683 269324 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537371040 721083 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zyfkbfcorocsbtgk JOIN :#esoteric > 1537371713 45778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Pelirodri 5* 10New user account > 1537372038 386547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57680&oldid=57658 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+194) 10 > 1537372079 778227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57681&oldid=57680 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+1) 10/* Introductions */ < 1537372903 440017 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.139.186 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537372911 941274 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.139.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537373413 498137 :Cale_!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:881:e8ca:8a87:1f80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537373423 635122 :Cale_!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:881:e8ca:8a87:1f80 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1537374125 494418 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57682 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+2206) 10Created page with "'''La We''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[Rodrigo Pelissier]] in 2018. It is inspired by [[COW]] and [[Brainfuck]]. It consists of 16 commands, each r..." > 1537374199 269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57683&oldid=57666 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+13) 10 < 1537374310 98093 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.42.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537374417 937024 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.139.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537374478 328288 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1537375093 749154 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.42.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537375116 158691 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.42.164 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537375126 578147 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.42.164 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537375156 736695 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.42.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1537375328 360000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57684&oldid=57682 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+701) 10 > 1537375359 305772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Pelirodri14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57685 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+23) 10Created page with "Creator of [[La We]]." > 1537375409 544623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Pelirodri14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57686&oldid=57685 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+59) 10 < 1537375657 891295 :lordvadr!~lordvadr@84.124.157.179.dyn.user.ono.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1537375800 575872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57687&oldid=57684 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+26) 10 < 1537375904 417840 :lordvadr!~lordvadr@84.124.157.179.dyn.user.ono.com QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) > 1537375925 186821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57688&oldid=57687 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+15) 10 > 1537375934 158251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57689&oldid=57688 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+1) 10 < 1537376121 998035 :onefst250r13!~onefst250@220.72.181.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537376428 314334 :onefst250r13!~onefst250@220.72.181.9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1537376991 274138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57690&oldid=57689 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (-1) 10/* Sample code */ < 1537378124 828820 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1537378124 963648 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1537378668 744163 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1537378714 788938 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.42.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537378786 838958 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1537379266 974757 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537379502 852660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1537379502 852703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1537379502 852713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1537380344 809076 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1537380344 809141 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537381260 699114 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537381265 673962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537381332 832525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1537381521 149846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TheLastBanana 5* 10New user account > 1537381914 802217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57691&oldid=57681 5* 03TheLastBanana 5* (+156) 10 > 1537381927 114573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Churro14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57692&oldid=49671 5* 03TheLastBanana 5* (-65) 10Homepage no longer exists, so I've removed it. All of its contents can be found on GitHub anyway. < 1537382014 755055 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537382206 446635 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537382714 578124 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1537385449 334567 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1537385449 820095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537386227 822669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: count me in as no on the milk hth < 1537386246 205877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't do that kind of poll < 1537386248 243986 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537386308 634686 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: acknowledged < 1537387114 832482 :technick28!~technick@14-132-213-184.dz.commufa.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1537387123 976267 :technick28!~technick@14-132-213-184.dz.commufa.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537387880 418659 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537391090 482313 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537391220 913551 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1537391222 420117 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.8.50.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1537391413 370510 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.18.84.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1537392052 76406 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have a crazy esoteric idea that I might have to expand on and write an article later. UTF-f32 encoding. Encode each Unicode/UCS code point in IEEE floating point format, then store that as bytes as big endian or little endian. < 1537392078 774611 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537392135 46192 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there are two variants of this, UTF-f32-be and UTF-f32-le. They're very similar to the traditional UTF-32-be and UTF-32-le, but the fun part is that if I calculate right in my head (I'll have to check this and write down the proof later), there's less need for an endianness marker than in UTF-32, because every string is unambiguous between UTF-f < 1537392135 183297 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-be and UTF-f32-le. < 1537392272 922339 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only strings that are valid in both are ones made of only NUL characters, and those have the same encoding and meaning in the two (and also in UTF-32). It seems that the other characters (codes 0x00000001 to 0x0010FFFD inclusive) just so happen to have no encodings clashing between UTF-f32-be and UTF-f32-le. < 1537392560 296915 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some genuine clashes between UTF-f32-be to UTF-32-le, and between UTF-f32-le to UTF-32-be, and I'll have to check what other potential and frequent clashes there are with various other formats. < 1537392617 244590 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1537392760 321223 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :store unicode characters only in NaNs - since those are not numbers they are clearly characters < 1537392816 732624 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' < 1537392817 699708 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :846) it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham < 1537392949 551065 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could call it UT-F32 - the placement of the dash clearly distinguishes it from UTF-32 < 1537393064 598786 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how exactly would you choose the NaNs? It matters how, because for example the UTF-16-le and UTF-32-le byte order marks are valid NaNs in float32 big-endian. < 1537393128 886632 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically the UTF-16-le byte order mark has to be followed by any one more code point to be a valid NaN.) < 1537393251 460734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you'd put them in 64-bit nans < 1537393289 673827 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that would waste space, and also has the same problem as above. < 1537393334 446960 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can list a lot of potential advantages to UTF-f32 as to how easy it is to handle, although they're all esoteric arguments, I wouldn't recommend the format in the real world.. < 1537393587 830962 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about UT-F16 though? then for example you can see the approximate unicode block of the characters and tell the sender you don't speak chinese without actually having to decode the exact chinese < 1537393754 611412 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's possible, but it would waste more than two bits per 16-bit word, so I don't understand why it's better than just using UTF-16. < 1537393780 666357 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 needs 4 bytes for things outside the BMP, UT-F16 uses 16 bits for everything < 1537393830 822805 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :for UT-F16 it's a shame that the unicode code points aren't using the negative numbers and all the fractions between 0 and 1 though < 1537393875 323012 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it always uses the same 16 bits (0x7FFF) for anything outside BMP. In UTF-16, for a pre-UCS-32 implementation, you could use the replacement character 0xFFFD for anything outside the BMP, which would take the same place. < 1537393942 225265 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an added bonus, the replacement character has the same encoding in UTF-f16 as any non-BMP code point. < 1537393986 678032 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, didn't notice the max value for F16 was so low < 1537394123 938987 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not that bad of course. Usually only gods, outsiders, the spirits of dead people, and very powerful wizards venture outside the base material plane, so those characters don't matter much. < 1537394162 14864 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe what we should be thinking about is how to make surrogate float pairs to extend F16 precision when needed < 1537394215 650317 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see in first place why you think this could be better than UTF-16. < 1537394327 93154 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, better? I was going for worse < 1537394804 629186 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1537394861 733886 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. I generally want to go for esoteric stuff when I have at least some esoteric arguments on how the esoteric stuff is better in some respect than the normal stuff. < 1537394955 18512 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once designed a "character encoding" which encodes the exact shape of the character as a 16x16 bitmap < 1537394960 882706 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric arguments can include stuff like "the program is more golfy this way" or "the language is simple so the interpreter for the language is more golfy this way", but lots of other things. < 1537394979 115433 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every character is 256 bits < 1537395041 755815 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus 8 bits for width and other info < 1537395055 726783 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: does that you use some sort of canonical values (or set of values) for each supported character from a reasonably usable text, so that the characters can be decoded reasonably easily? < 1537395087 781164 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it needn't cover "all characters", because no character encoding ever does. < 1537395097 150350 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some character set usable for some purpose. < 1537395101 121138 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah exactly < 1537395149 428 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was to make it at least round-trip compatible with all legacy character encodings < 1537395155 26103 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. Do you have a description or something of this somewhere? < 1537395171 751293 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, iirc I do < 1537395175 50898 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"all legacy character encodings"? seriousliy? that's never possible < 1537395193 59784 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are tons of those, many barely documented < 1537395232 303794 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are large iconv databases of them and a translation to/from unicode strings, but still. < 1537395242 962786 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well because it encodes the shape of the character, all you need is a font which defines the "encoding" < 1537395322 12319 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a series of 16 "columns", each of which is 16 bits tall, making a 16x16 bitmap, plus a 4 bit width and a 4 bit offset < 1537395350 232736 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the whole character is 264 bits < 1537395422 809926 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but "all legacy character encodings" covers like four centuries of semaphore or flag signs, about two centuries of electric telegraphy, and over seventy years of digital computers. < 1537395442 582873 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody has complete documentation of "all legacy character encodings" < 1537395446 95239 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah I was only thinking of digital < 1537395461 450277 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even only digital is probably impossible < 1537395467 574472 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's inadequate documentation < 1537395508 984420 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though technically almost all character encodings in semaphore, flag signals, electric telegraphy, and electronic computers count as "digital" < 1537395534 568975 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1537395535 690321 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to carving letters, handwriting, and printing press < 1537395572 573863 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could still say "only ones used with electronic machines" if you wish of course < 1537395621 111597 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, with modern computers, there'll be people representing various old stuff like semaphore signs on a computer, so it's a bit hard < 1537395670 598802 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. it is compatible with any encoding that has a font in b/w 12 pt (or less), with no duplicate symbols < 1537395700 941315 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there's the amateur radio people who use a computer to encode or decode morse signals in some radio formats that were already possible in the same format with very simple electronic circuits < 1537395766 305072 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better, although "no duplicate symbols" is a bit hard to satisfy with larger modern character sets. very often there are two whitespace characters with the same graphics. < 1537395796 63513 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that it can be used to represent for example original invented alphabets with no need for any "private use area" < 1537395810 471435 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, \oren\'s font covers a useful large set of characters with supposedly no dupe glyphs < 1537395846 793799 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ok, that sounds reasonable < 1537395884 437104 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course the representation you suppose isn't the only possible one for that < 1537395927 185175 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could, say, give a font or more in some existing font format and a formatted text using that font, and embed it to a PDF < 1537395950 93401 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that sounds reasonable < 1537395971 33555 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly seems a more useful idea than the 16-bit floating point < 1537395997 971268 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, you're \oren\. so that's your font. < 1537396004 874363 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired. < 1537396022 639481 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two people with nick starting with o. it's confusing. < 1537396120 326810 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in practice, there are other ways to embed bitmaps, for example you could do with src being a base64 encoded targa < 1537396218 486472 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: yeah, I use an IMG element (not with a data: URL but whatever) as a way to represent my email address on my homepage. Mind you, I got laxer about that because now it's effectively public and lots of places have it in clear text. < 1537396272 966085 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... what is the smallest overhead uncompressed image format < 1537396326 309774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPM? < 1537396461 28237 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm suppose it's a 16x16 b/w image. < 1537396479 79890 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: that would depend on what exactly you mean by "uncompressed", and what kind of images you want to represent, especially what range and resolution of colors and alpha in pixels. < 1537396491 39620 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"P4\n16 16\n" is a header of 11 bytes < 1537396499 117023 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which beat targa < 1537396508 629252 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want "lowest overhead" then you might skirt the boundaries of "uncompressed" < 1537396523 380869 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by packing bits from different things into a byte and stuff like that. < 1537396531 510447 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, FAT12, but it can get worse. < 1537396596 217178 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the cluster allocation next cluster link array in FAT12 specifically. it has 12 bit cluster numbers permuted to bytes in some rather strange order.) < 1537396648 824895 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(optimized for machines of that time.) < 1537396748 469637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537396785 303901 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically an array of little-endian 12 bit numbers packed into a byte sequence, so nothing ends up aligned to 2-power boundaries) < 1537397394 404959 :Trou19!~Trou@pb6a9169b.fkoknt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1537397544 724445 :Trou19!~Trou@pb6a9169b.fkoknt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1537397774 238416 :Muligan2!~Muligan@95-210-248-83.ip.skylogicnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1537398036 808287 :wob_jonas!b03f1954@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.84 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1537398061 142523 :Muligan2!~Muligan@95-210-248-83.ip.skylogicnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537398297 874544 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537398335 959107 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537400353 578491 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1537400953 502890 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1537401340 946463 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric