< 1537488137 361181 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537488636 839350 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537490430 698317 :pabs26!~pabs@2402:800:6145:5788:40e4:56cd:9873:54a6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537490437 459616 :pabs26!~pabs@2402:800:6145:5788:40e4:56cd:9873:54a6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537491826 436785 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.8.50.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1537492430 984805 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537495360 497789 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr JOIN :#esoteric < 1537495384 64736 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello muh dudes and dudets < 1537495430 12321 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :any golden dawn here? < 1537495539 795500 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( that term is all greek to me ) < 1537495566 556710 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you study my friend? < 1537495570 62150 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537495731 605787 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1537495921 798489 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellllooooooo < 1537495924 202042 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo echo echo < 1537495927 969102 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anyone there < 1537495938 521025 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I just shouting into a vast abyss of nothingness < 1537495971 465101 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there some reflector out there to mirror manifestation? < 1537495975 794519 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1537496016 647029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on < 1537496030 808459 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt there is any Golden Dawn here though < 1537496101 413268 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect so < 1537496106 657218 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :just threw it out for fun < 1537496109 578411 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1537496124 36799 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you zzo38? < 1537496129 702774 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am OK < 1537496137 113571 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your life like? < 1537496141 3567 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you see? < 1537496146 414615 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's important to you? < 1537496192 623131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how to respond, but perhaps I should learn. I write many computer programs, and play GURPS sometimes < 1537496201 82064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also read many books at library < 1537496502 954825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see this computer screen right now, though < 1537496580 539405 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the response < 1537496587 26038 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a compute screen too! < 1537496592 751387 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not yours < 1537496595 370118 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1537496604 485103 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write computer programs too < 1537496618 863787 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of stuff are you writing, what platform are you targeting? < 1537496820 54252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mainly write C programs on my own computer, which is Linux, although you can try to compile them on other systems too. I have also written programs for DOS, and for Famicom, and other stuff. Some of this stuff I write in C is SQLite extensions. Another is a set of programs for manipulating pictures, called Farbfeld Utilities. And then there are other various stuff. < 1537496829 958080 :sparch!~sparch@177.122.207.138 JOIN :#esoteric > 1537496878 11391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Technologic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57706&oldid=57699 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (+253) 10 < 1537496890 180581 :sparch!~sparch@177.122.207.138 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537496927 201732 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also worked with ZZT and figured out many things about it, and written another external editor for ZZT. And I also have a project Free Hero Mesh, which is a puzzle game engine. < 1537496946 821185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many of these program you can look at if you are interested in it, is all public domain including source codes. < 1537498861 893356 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537498868 27914 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537499475 488193 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537499491 84070 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537500339 26906 :Arroyo101017!~Arroyo101@178.74.15.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537500427 803336 :Arroyo101017!~Arroyo101@178.74.15.177 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) < 1537502026 151441 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537502039 995399 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537502243 61395 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537502260 410656 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwtxbuaxupvicanf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1537503306 371068 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1537504503 364114 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537505056 537148 :sklarr!~sky@unaffiliated/sklarr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537508471 522509 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537509776 374613 :Chestal2!~Chestal@156.199.42.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537510060 438892 :Chestal2!~Chestal@156.199.42.78 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537511892 22882 :gdiazlo!~gdiazlo@211.112.123.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537512091 614240 :gdiazlo!~gdiazlo@211.112.123.9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537513167 297658 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537513180 377359 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537514100 870282 :ZeroFlame00715!~ZeroFlame@x4d0275e4.dyn.telefonica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1537514203 728387 :ZeroFlame00715!~ZeroFlame@x4d0275e4.dyn.telefonica.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537514352 537436 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1537514446 996232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1537514812 779180 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537514909 340780 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1537516795 3518 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1537517049 35814 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537517493 355116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1537518871 926273 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537518927 910599 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: crazy idea: esoteric character encoding UTF-f32 "https://esolangs.org/logs/2018-09-19.html#lLc" < 1537519089 992838 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1537520910 522274 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537520954 365122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A book I read recently asks Pope Francis I to convene Vatican III. But, they ask him to do so in 2015, which has already passed. < 1537521066 530798 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason why, or just for the sake of having a council? < 1537521116 177985 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe that book was read before that date has passed? < 1537521125 905356 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/read/published/ < 1537521236 47438 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably it was published before then. < 1537521246 443091 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or at least written before then.) < 1537521260 171088 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Pope Francis did become pope before that year. < 1537521350 681830 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember the reason given, but it seem to me that Vatican III would help. < 1537521444 779124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already seen your stuff about UTF-f32 above. < 1537521928 813587 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure what to comment of that though) < 1537522160 956611 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. I might try to write it up in detail some time, or more likely just forget it as I give priority to other stuff. < 1537522206 241703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do, then we can see if there is any conflicting or not between endianness (other than null characters). < 1537522427 158474 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yup, although you could also easily test that if you wish, since you just have to make a set of the encodings of all character codes from 0x00000000 to 0x0010FFFD inclusive and check for clashes. (About two thousand of those codse are non-characters, but that doesn't matter.) < 1537522444 347660 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet done that test, but will do before writing up the human-readable proof. < 1537522623 272111 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, I may test that myself too < 1537522784 268217 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a proof you can figure out in your head as a human, though you need to know some of the exact tricky details of single-precision floating point encoding, specifically how the biased exponent works exactly, which I had to look up. < 1537522817 397064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try to figure out that too, maybe < 1537523135 805473 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The biased exponent of float formats is confusing to me because some texts define floating point such that the mantissa is between 1 and 2, and some define it such that the mantissa is between 0.5 and 1, so the exponent bias is shifted by 1 between those two. Those are just differences in notation, it shouldn't impact semantics (in correct implemen < 1537523136 25438 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tations). < 1537523206 187999 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does influence floating point formatting to text, such as to hex-floats. < 1537523334 619376 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's for normal numbers, denormals add an extra twist but that doesn't matter here.) < 1537523994 362085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote this program and indeed the only output is zero: "use strict"; const dv=new DataView(new ArrayBuffer(4)); for(let i=0;i<0x10FFFE;i++) { dv.setFloat32(0,i,false); let n=dv.getFloat32(0,true); if(n>=0 && n<0x10FFFE && n===Math.floor(n)) console.log(i,n); } < 1537524183 713309 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And since it is zero in both cases, is not problem) < 1537524211 775532 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, "use strict" in double quotes to comment it out? < 1537524221 658881 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see, it's not perl < 1537524226 619548 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1537524239 101406 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that javascript? < 1537524264 718874 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language (and library if it's not obvious) is it? < 1537524418 670352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is JavaScript < 1537524476 235609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The only non-core function it uses is console.log, which can be used both in Node.js and in HTML) < 1537524610 90362 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1537524623 520230 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll still check myself because why not, but thank you for checking < 1537524882 671232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1537526585 828282 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1537526898 909388 :Ingersol27!~Ingersol@27.69.249.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537526989 365828 :Ingersol27!~Ingersol@27.69.249.109 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1537527372 905189 :ketas8!~ketas@177.61.15.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537527516 780054 :ketas8!~ketas@177.61.15.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537529768 410516 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. This is a film soundtrack, so it has a high dynamic range. As such, this noisy environment and cheap earbuds don't do it justice. I'll skip this album for now. < 1537529824 271008 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also seems an odd one in this youtube playlist by a third party. Doesn't really match the rest. < 1537531261 432663 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1537532631 165650 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1537532842 628946 :knobo4!~knobo@183.157.174.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537533161 707337 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1537533231 384368 :knobo4!~knobo@183.157.174.101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1537533243 466648 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1537533685 970154 :elmo1!~elmo@220.90.242.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537533727 93121 :elmo1!~elmo@220.90.242.233 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1537534648 973974 :dougwig21!~dougwig@187.111.219.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537534866 694520 :dougwig21!~dougwig@187.111.219.81 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537534986 386847 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.8.50.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1537535423 898243 :Sail0r25!~Sail0r@189-90-194-91.isimples.com.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1537535828 764379 :Sail0r25!~Sail0r@189-90-194-91.isimples.com.br QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1537536229 482605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07X:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57707&oldid=56299 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (-8) 10Link to [[User:A]] properly < 1537536306 495996 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jyacftfnwwnjyklw JOIN :#esoteric < 1537536858 997427 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537536882 188710 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2672694/take-2/ < 1537536882 894563 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ehlist: not found > 1537536896 510721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Insignificant14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57708&oldid=53281 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+2) 10Actual pi symbol < 1537537141 100607 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric > 1537537255 58140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FRM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57709&oldid=12627 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+7) 10 > 1537537434 946507 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mostawesomeprogramminglanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57710&oldid=51034 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+4) 10OCD: Bolded first instance of "Mostawesomeprogramminglanguage" > 1537540015 682938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57711&oldid=57336 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+81) 10Added [[ESOPUNK]] > 1537540052 177636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57712&oldid=57711 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+2) 10**** > 1537541004 770695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK/Commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57713&oldid=57673 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+647) 10"Equivalent" column < 1537543461 791747 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vaiiioijfcwvewgp JOIN :#esoteric < 1537543469 153389 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out that the Firefox plugin Stylus is a good replacement for Stylish, because the latter has acquired a severe bug because it couldn't keep up with how Mozilla keeps changing Firefox. < 1537543481 979993 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm mentioning it here in case anyone else is using Stylus. < 1537543495 252785 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537543515 115718 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More info about this particular bug is at https://stackoverflow.com/q/51101566/2200827 , but the Stylus plugin could be useful anyway. < 1537543566 36075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These plugins lets you apply custom user CSS to websites locally, thus making specific sites work better if you're willing to write the CSS or finding among ones other people write. < 1537544194 527484 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the... oh right, this is the splash screen of the Gimp 2.10.6 release. I was expecting the splash screen of the 2.10.0 and got surprised for a moment. < 1537544341 342545 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537544467 303355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that could do. I think new version of Stylish has spyware too, but if you are using a old version of Stylish and Firefox then you can use that (I use old version of Stylish and Firefox) < 1537544861 459544 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Firefox and some of the websites I visit, especially the ones I have to fix with user styles, have more spyware. < 1537544966 297161 :kalebris10!~kalebris@197.53.63.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537544968 865379 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although many things still can be disabled. Is true to fix many things with user styles; I do that too. Often to remove advertisements, reduce line spacing and padding, reduce font sizes, etc. But once it was to correct the chapter number. < 1537545000 416042 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537545225 473777 :bezt26!~bezt@134.236.136.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537545250 588332 :kalebris10!~kalebris@197.53.63.150 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537545477 203351 :bezt26!~bezt@134.236.136.51 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537545523 687579 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remove many of the advertisments by a combination of a mental filter and the noscript extension, and there are some ads (especially ones on video sites) that I do notice but don't want to remove them much because < 1537545554 946995 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the content creators get some revenue from the ads and that makes them produce better content, so in most of those cases I don't yet have enough incentive to remove the ads. < 1537545617 772226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes if the ads are unobtrusive and don't waste so much bandwidth I will not remove them < 1537545627 817908 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that isn't all that common < 1537545687 264236 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: note that many people use google ads these days, and I remove most of those from sites not controlled directly by google with noscript. < 1537545693 42584 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537545774 881524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can be done too < 1537545787 477353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the largest portion of ads that still get to me are ads on video sites (youtube and dailymotion) that either interrupt the video or are shown before the video or cover a portion of the video < 1537545840 602649 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I also notice a few of the youtube animated gif ads that are next to the video rather than covering it, specifically the one that really looked like it was advertising a scam. I think I mentioned that one on this channel. < 1537545949 705309 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1141 < 1537545950 580154 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1141: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1537546020 767533 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o! < 1537546150 585379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1537546151 781321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twist < 1537546158 108233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're going to have to do the thing with the thing < 1537546204 583624 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things won't be fix so well with CSS codes, so GreaseMonkey and moz-rewrite are also used. Such as, adding accesskey attributes or changing link targets is done with GreaseMonkey < 1537546336 625958 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, some things require reordering parts of the doc-tree, and those are hard to fix with CSS. < 1537546387 966458 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in some sites, the DOM might just lack the proper hooks (especially classes) to write a useful CSS. < 1537546468 696339 :jn!~jn@41.232.233.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537546625 593702 :jn!~jn@41.232.233.118 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537547177 214618 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1537547353 203969 :andrew_!b2de7277@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.222.114.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537547527 477008 :andrew_!b2de7277@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.222.114.119 QUIT :Client Quit < 1537548701 778545 :jameson_!~jameson@37.58.58.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537549213 881144 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1537550531 918116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1537552159 517321 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537552346 902889 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I just got a mail from germany, delivering a small item I ordered through ebay. < 1537552406 397283 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My address (printed on the sheet and visible through the window of the envelope) is rendered almost correctly, including even the non-ascii letters, but they found a new twist on how to modify it. < 1537552487 889883 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides the usual mangling of putting the town and the postal code in the wrong places (which almost all such order services do, even though technically it could be fixed either by some per-country formatting rules or by taking the whole name and address except for the country in a single textarea), < 1537552558 243897 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have uppercased the initials of the words in the street address line that should be lowercase. < 1537552588 212180 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They didn't uppercase the whole address American style like some sellers do.) < 1537552601 208949 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this is a specifically german thing. < 1537552614 280636 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, um, a specifically German thing, really < 1537552773 189675 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1537553328 726397 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read that typing the address in Courier font in all uppercase with no punctuation allows the computer to sort it. This is the use I have for a typewriter, which is to type addresses on envelopes. < 1537553534 821137 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537554771 191847 :xa07!~xa0@118.41.143.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537554908 390027 :xa07!~xa0@118.41.143.87 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1537556147 371231 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1537556153 390976 :newbie83!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1537556233 746028 :newbie83!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1537556238 982156 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1537556256 406981 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1537556414 423238 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know about Canada, but in the US the USPS's equipment is able to read most written addresses, typed or handwritten. < 1537556474 923666 :Vaevictus!~Vaevictus@146.4.141.94.dsl.static.ip.kpnqwest.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1537556477 46003 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With relatively few addresses needing to fall back to a human. < 1537556517 271159 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in either case, once the address has been recognized, a barcode gets applied to the mail, and all future sorting is done automatically) < 1537556568 335500 :TheAppleMan22!~TheAppleM@41.223.153.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537556603 872626 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vaiiioijfcwvewgp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1537556621 201086 :TheAppleMan22!~TheAppleM@41.223.153.73 QUIT :K-Lined < 1537556631 872417 :Vaevictus!~Vaevictus@146.4.141.94.dsl.static.ip.kpnqwest.it QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537558030 147807 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537558723 29863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537558781 425884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1537558781 604357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1537558782 882008 :ep100!~max@105.229.116.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537559107 713420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1537560014 67097 :nullifidian__!~nullifidi@93.175.231.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537560374 885482 :nullifidian__!~nullifidi@93.175.231.55 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537560413 30186 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537562826 459796 :djph14!~djph@mm-4-102-44-37.mgts.dynamic.pppoe.byfly.by JOIN :#esoteric < 1537562886 968722 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1537562887 189312 :Daneel3!~Daneel@pdf86c615.chibnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1537563031 108638 :djph14!~djph@mm-4-102-44-37.mgts.dynamic.pppoe.byfly.by QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537563216 17134 :Daneel3!~Daneel@pdf86c615.chibnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537563785 515212 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a20-76.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1537563835 374367 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bcee80-209.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1537564877 151679 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1537565351 319460 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1537565559 861709 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537566141 749222 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1537566377 682378 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-164-233.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1537566522 493593 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1537566550 77492 :BloqueNegro11!~BloqueNeg@181.224.181.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537567004 589882 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1537567047 508434 :BloqueNegro11!~BloqueNeg@181.224.181.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1537567310 571842 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-164-233.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1537567440 348059 :ep100!~max@105.229.116.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537567896 931295 :infowolfe!~infowolfe@121.142.170.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537567957 502200 :infowolfe!~infowolfe@121.142.170.243 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537568144 575241 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1537568562 823423 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537568955 459 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1537570676 156079 :timewalker23!~timewalke@188.114.131.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537570743 135441 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537570763 574778 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537570781 567282 :timewalker23!~timewalke@188.114.131.11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1537570825 38395 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1537572361 338307 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1537572438 824682 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all those curses about these new nokia feature phones, I'd like to praise them a little: they got sorting the contact list in Hungarian more closer to right than in older Nokias, < 1537572566 903427 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, names starting with Ö or Á get sorted near names starting with O or A (though not at the correct place), and when I type O to filter the contact list to names starting with O, it includes the ones starting with Ö (although I'd prefer if it wouldn't filter, just _seek_ to the first name starting with O or a later letter), < 1537572622 417916 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I no longer need the horrible workarounds of replacing a prefix Á with Aá and a prefix Ö with Oö like I used to do in older phones. < 1537572648 151462 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such names aren't common, but there is more than one in my contact list. < 1537572666 407769 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including entries I sometimes want to find. < 1537572746 446102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Did you see the thing I wrote at http://esolangs.org/logs/2018-09.html#lDsb ? < 1537572798 577317 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you read that from the postal organization in your country and recently? postal organizations actually put recommendations on how to address envelopes corerectly, including for machine sortability, and the kind of guy like you can even read the detailed docs rather than just the quick infosheet. And those recommendations can change occas < 1537572798 754562 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ionally on a decade scale, because of changes in technology. < 1537572808 353258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you've said something similar at one point maybe. < 1537572810 986549 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, perhaps remind me a few days later. < 1537572828 924809 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, ignore that < 1537572847 622043 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I've seen that. (thought it's a different link) < 1537572903 544012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1537572918 53233 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1537572952 298828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:787138904.png10]]" < 1537572959 162725 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Do you want to design a feature phone with good interface? If you made a serious commitment, then I'd volunteer my time to give detailed specs for the parts of the UI that matter to me, and volunteer my time to test the phone in any state, whether it's early or late, and give feedback. I think I'm a reasonable tester. < 1537572959 430638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1537573015 64547 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Note that I don't volunteer for testing a version control system, because testing a VCS is a daunting hard problem, way over my testing abilities, and even specifying the expected semantics has really hard problems in it. < 1537573015 467904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1537573029 756784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is making a version control system? < 1537573063 957986 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no. he is thinking of making one, and with a guy like him, I actually take that seriously, but he might never do it, because it's hard and he doesn't have infinite time. < 1537573066 374517 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1537573085 525183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll talk to him about it sometime. < 1537573097 892149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of room for improvement in version control systems, if you ask me. < 1537573107 365985 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: he even has a name for the version control system in the logs, and I gave him some vague instructions on what I expect from a version control system multiple times in chat < 1537573130 689164 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it telling that git remains the main popular one. < 1537573138 286461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it telling of? < 1537573176 566652 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes there is. I've talked a lot about them on this channel, although I only really know SVN and git, I haven't yet taken the time to get familiar with mercurial, and will probably never do so with darcs or the literally dozens of other free software vcses. < 1537573183 471974 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are willing to suffer through bad and awkward interfaces and fundamentally only really use the one that everyone uses regardless of whether or not it works well for them. < 1537573226 773707 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, I think it means the sort of people who care about choosing a vcs are willing to suffer through bad and awkward interfaces to get the features they need < 1537573248 464281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe mercurial is the future. < 1537573255 199353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mercurial + facebook's changes < 1537573302 759243 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its' not because everyone uses it. I do recommend git for certain types of personal projects even if nobody else interacts with it so what everyone uses doesn't matter. for other problems, I recommend svn or no version control at all just raw cp and diff and diff3 and patch < 1537573326 380221 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's possible. that's why I have to look at it in detail, but that takes a lot of time < 1537573432 863895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Do you think it makes sense to have blocks have input and/or output values? < 1537573469 562919 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, what's the context? a C-like programming language? < 1537573488 849641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1537573502 533583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your blocks have early exit then exit-with-value makes sense. < 1537573516 981517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I should probably think of it as something like a restricted continuation. < 1537573527 971932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But should blocks possibly have an input as well? < 1537573528 459935 :jameson_!~jameson@37.58.58.230 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1537573535 413042 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I like return values, such as in rust, but if it's too hard to fit to your language because of other features, then it's not too important. < 1537573567 46028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's pretty core to some of my language ideas. < 1537573593 890248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether maybe the only way to declare variables is to have them as "block input" of sorts. < 1537573601 430488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. Maybe it's going too far. < 1537573646 774708 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inputs are more difficult, I'm not sure how that would work. would it be like an inline function (lambda) without captures immediately called with arguments, and possibly some restrictions lifted eg. on control transfer from the inner function to the outer body, or scope or liveness stuff? < 1537573656 479802 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would it have captures? < 1537573671 454897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would presumably have captures. < 1537573677 39694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like any block in C. < 1537573680 436227 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand how it would work if it could do more than just an inner function, and those must have serious restrictions. < 1537573684 244872 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, with captures < 1537573693 955425 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do more than an inner function. < 1537573698 140893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like early exit, right? < 1537573699 865149 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can pass inputs in local variables anyway < 1537573747 78019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this is all considered in the context of a low-level language without random allocation for closures and so on. < 1537573812 696352 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but then for an inline function that captures the stack frame and never escapes its lifetime, the language could already allow early exits or gotos into the containing function body, even in rust, I don't think there's a strong technical reason not to do that, < 1537573821 488814 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1537573856 93297 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hard to implement and you gain little from it, especially if there's variadic stack allocation (rust already has that) in the calling function or other strange things, but you could restrict some of the other strange things. < 1537573859 182923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a bit tricky to implement maybe? < 1537573874 599141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variadic stack allocation or any kind of destructors, I think. < 1537573889 653583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make things that behave a lot like exceptions. < 1537573896 124715 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: definitely tricky to implement, yes < 1537573966 885135 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1537573980 142814 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it gets even harder if you pass the function handle to called functions < 1537573985 255066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly don't want something as complicated as exceptions. < 1537573985 521091 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the useful case < 1537574003 93897 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sorry, I didn't think this through < 1537574014 81049 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be too hard to implement, so there's a good technical reason not to do it < 1537574042 782679 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier for a block that's called right then and there, with the function reference not going anywhere < 1537574075 887780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The block also just doesn't behave a whole lot like a lambda, I think. < 1537574086 338265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that a lambda is a special kind of block. < 1537574101 997988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think I'd want to allow early exit outside its body. < 1537574185 636419 :wob_jonas!b03f1904@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1537574298 371979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether I want block arguments or not. < 1537574304 360879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do, how would they be passed to blocks? < 1537574317 937672 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning about the C64 makes me appreciate memory protection more. I was confused by memory protection because it seems like modern OSes have APIs to reach into other processes' memory anyway. But with C64, if you have something in the background, it could be incompatible with other programs if some other program happens to want that same memory. Memory protection improves compatibility and avoids accidents < 1537574369 547385 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern OSes also usually gate those APIs with permissions. < 1537574392 959792 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, while it's possible for a program to reach into another process's memory, it's not possible for a program to reach into *any* other process's memory.