←2018-09-26 2018-09-27 2018-09-28→ ↑2018 ↑all
00:07:32 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
00:10:12 <wob_jonas> Argh, this stupid cycle, when I add disinfectant liquid (iodine-based) to the wounds on my hand, then I try to wash (with warm water) the liquid from the parts of the skin where it's not needed (it has some side effects), then add disinfectant liquid again to the wounds where it accidentally washed off (warm water solves it really well, and both wa
00:10:12 <wob_jonas> ter and the disinfectant can spread out on my hand so they're hard to localize), then wash it off again.
00:11:59 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit).
00:25:44 -!- grumble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:25:45 -!- gurmble has joined.
00:26:01 -!- gurmble has changed nick to grumble.
00:30:27 -!- plopix21 has joined.
00:32:17 -!- plopix21 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:36:46 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: Freenode looks forward to seeing you at the freenode #live conference, in Bristol on November 3rd and 4th. Check it out at https://freenode.live or join #live or read the /motd for more info!).
00:37:05 -!- grumble has joined.
01:05:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TOWER CHICKEN).
01:21:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
01:25:21 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
01:39:14 -!- flyingtriangle10 has joined.
01:42:01 -!- flyingtriangle10 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:53:19 -!- nfd9001 has joined.
01:56:30 -!- greenbigfrog27 has joined.
01:58:19 -!- mystica55512 has joined.
02:00:47 -!- xkapastel has joined.
02:01:11 -!- greenbigfrog27 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:01:47 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:02:23 -!- mystica55512 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:04:28 -!- ablackack12 has joined.
02:06:09 -!- ablackack12 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:10:51 -!- DrDisk24 has joined.
02:13:59 -!- DrDisk24 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:15:50 -!- aijony has joined.
02:25:17 -!- aijony has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:41:01 -!- sublevel11 has joined.
02:44:37 -!- sublevel11 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:45:44 -!- oerjan has joined.
02:58:51 -!- sleepnap has left.
03:08:51 -!- mathu25 has joined.
03:17:47 -!- mathu25 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:20:34 -!- ken_barber6 has joined.
03:23:23 -!- ken_barber6 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:23:27 -!- bucketm0use has joined.
03:27:24 -!- bucketm0use has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:56:34 -!- SoniEx2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:57:44 -!- Soni has joined.
04:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
04:39:35 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
05:05:21 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
05:29:28 -!- kaol15 has joined.
05:31:07 -!- kaol15 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:58:06 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:03:02 -!- PatrickC_7 has joined.
06:06:49 -!- Klumben5 has joined.
06:06:51 -!- Klumben5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:07:49 -!- PatrickC_7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:13:42 -!- heroux_ has quit (Excess Flood).
06:13:51 -!- heroux_ has joined.
06:28:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
06:35:16 -!- yaewa has joined.
06:36:38 -!- moei has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
06:39:01 -!- pmow12 has joined.
06:43:29 -!- pmow12 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:02:16 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:02:30 -!- tromp has joined.
07:22:43 -!- demarchi21 has joined.
07:25:06 -!- demarchi21 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:26:39 -!- xmj7 has joined.
07:28:07 -!- xmj7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:37:19 -!- slm1 has joined.
07:38:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
07:42:02 -!- slm1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:11:52 -!- wonchul has joined.
08:15:06 -!- wonchul has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:15:39 -!- ShaRose16 has joined.
08:20:39 -!- ShaRose16 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:34:25 -!- yaewa has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
08:38:11 -!- nihe has joined.
08:38:47 -!- saltee has joined.
08:39:30 -!- moei has joined.
08:40:25 -!- nihe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:42:32 -!- saltee has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:04:57 -!- jreese5 has joined.
09:05:45 -!- jreese5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:07:02 -!- mlt- has joined.
09:07:05 -!- lsyoyom16 has joined.
09:08:19 -!- lsyoyom16 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:10:34 -!- arseniiv has joined.
09:11:54 -!- mlt- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:30:48 -!- msgctl24 has joined.
09:33:52 -!- msgctl24 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:34:08 -!- pinaraf23 has joined.
09:35:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
09:37:44 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
09:41:42 -!- pinaraf23 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
09:44:12 -!- rawtaz2 has joined.
09:44:25 -!- rawtaz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:53:06 -!- ph0b0s_16 has joined.
09:54:42 -!- ph0b0s_16 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:54:54 <wob_jonas> The Magyar Tudományos Akadémia I. Nyelv- és Irodalomtudományok Osztálya (Hungarian Academy of Sciences, I. Section of Linguistics and Literary Scholarship) weren't such a collective holy paladins trying to uphold the rules they extrapolate from tradition, despite that the extrapolation is chaotic and their choices often have no reason.
10:04:24 -!- koshii12 has joined.
10:05:24 -!- koshii12 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:13:11 <wob_jonas> They don't have much power on language use, because most people just ignore their rules, but they do control the Hungarian part of allowing giving names to people in official IDs. They insist that a name can only be used as a Hungarian given name if it is either unambiguously male name or unambiguously female name, despite that they already have pr
10:13:11 <wob_jonas> ecedents that go against this, namely "Abigél" as a female given name when "Abigail" is used as both male and female elsewhere.
10:17:24 <wob_jonas> How are we supposed to slowly erode the stupid traditional distinction of male and female given names (with a much worse choice in female give names too) if they insist on that, and we have to use one of the several loopholes nominally involving foreign cultures or foreign countries to put other given names in our ID cards?
10:19:41 <wob_jonas> For reference, MTA I. Oszt. summarizes those rules on http://www.nytud.hu/oszt/nyelvmuvelo/utonevek/alapelvek.html
10:26:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
10:36:19 -!- parliament20 has joined.
10:41:09 -!- parliament20 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:43:06 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:43:37 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
11:01:31 -!- edge56310 has joined.
11:02:17 -!- edge56310 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:08:17 -!- moei has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:08:53 -!- moei has joined.
11:18:55 -!- Essadon has joined.
11:20:52 -!- Guest74488 has joined.
11:24:14 -!- Guest74488 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:41:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
11:44:39 -!- heroux_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
11:45:12 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
11:51:19 -!- heroux has joined.
11:51:21 -!- heroux_ has joined.
11:57:15 -!- heroux_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
11:57:15 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
11:59:27 -!- julmac14 has joined.
11:59:48 -!- julmac14 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:04:41 -!- vetu1045 has joined.
12:05:31 -!- heroux has joined.
12:05:35 -!- heroux_ has joined.
12:06:10 -!- vetu1045 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:10:59 <wob_jonas> This is getting ridiculous. The president of Kazahstan has declared that their country will urgently start using a latin letter alphabet for writing the kazak language, and he has announced three alphabets so far, in 2017-09, 2017-10, and 2018-02 respectively, each of the three different from each other and every latin writing or transcription used
12:10:59 <wob_jonas> for the kazak language before, and apparently each time with not enough details to figure out the correct writing of every word.
12:13:46 -!- XorSwap has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
12:16:29 <wob_jonas> Even apart from what the poor schoolchildren have to endure if the change of writing system is actually carried out in the impossibly fast pace like the president suggests, I wonder if the President at least personally went and queued in the local government office to get new ID papers with his middle name written with a starting Ә, Ae, Aʼ, and Á r
12:16:29 <wob_jonas> espectively.
12:17:44 <wob_jonas> You know, to serve as a good example for his people, like communist dictators should do.
12:21:25 <wob_jonas> Nah, that sucks. My snarky comment after the 2017-10 about Orwell and re-engraving all the marble statues and entering in people's houses to replace their instructions for use of their washing machine was better.
12:36:39 -!- dmc_ has joined.
12:43:48 -!- dmc_ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
12:44:26 -!- sleepnap has joined.
12:47:11 -!- dxrt_ has joined.
12:48:25 -!- dxrt_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:52:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:52:38 -!- tromp has joined.
12:52:58 -!- liara18 has joined.
12:54:18 -!- liara18 has quit (K-Lined).
12:55:32 -!- geheimnis`12 has joined.
12:59:18 -!- geheimnis`12 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:00:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
13:15:32 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:15:44 -!- tromp has joined.
13:24:24 -!- xkapastel has joined.
13:28:36 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:29:11 -!- tromp has joined.
13:31:11 -!- echoe6 has joined.
13:33:40 <esowiki> [[Pxem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57772&oldid=57770 * YamTokWae * (+117)
13:35:22 -!- echoe6 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:39:22 -!- Fenhl20 has joined.
13:40:37 -!- Fenhl20 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:42:21 -!- atx has joined.
13:45:22 -!- atx has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:46:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Strona * New user account
13:55:33 -!- nfd9001 has joined.
13:56:25 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:02:00 -!- almostdvs17 has joined.
14:05:53 -!- almostdvs17 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:06:37 -!- richmoore1 has joined.
14:08:34 -!- richmoore1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:38:06 -!- codebrainz12 has joined.
14:38:42 -!- codebrainz12 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:46:22 -!- mixi8 has joined.
14:49:28 -!- mixi8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:13:43 <int-e> TIL that the US hyphenation of "analysis" is "anal-y-sis"; the British respect etymology and use "ana-ly-sis". *sigh*
15:14:27 <Taneb> int-e: ooh, that's a subtle difference I hadn't noticed
15:16:47 <wob_jonas> int-e: nice
15:19:34 -!- Kelsar11 has joined.
15:20:19 -!- Kelsar11 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:22:42 -!- Akeem4 has joined.
15:25:30 -!- bradcomp has joined.
15:27:09 -!- Akeem4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:35:50 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:36:03 -!- tromp has joined.
15:39:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:54:19 -!- Guest68746 has joined.
15:54:28 -!- imode has joined.
15:54:30 -!- michalrus17 has joined.
15:55:24 -!- michalrus17 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:56:55 -!- Guest68746 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:58:28 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:59:19 -!- tromp has joined.
16:03:22 -!- erkin has joined.
16:05:04 -!- traumschule23 has joined.
16:05:38 -!- ChiLLabi1 has joined.
16:07:26 -!- traumschule23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:09:45 -!- ChiLLabi1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:20:12 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
16:20:38 -!- Guest93084 has joined.
16:20:53 -!- Guest93084 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:35:30 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:35:43 -!- tromp has joined.
16:39:25 -!- xmaka4 has joined.
16:42:31 -!- xmaka4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:45:21 -!- Apocalyptic5 has joined.
16:46:55 -!- Apocalyptic5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:56:42 -!- Comnenus7 has joined.
16:57:34 -!- Comnenus7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:01:29 -!- ttx27 has joined.
17:01:45 -!- ttx27 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:02:44 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:12:05 -!- tyldis0 has joined.
17:16:00 -!- juristi7 has joined.
17:16:41 -!- tyldis0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:19:28 -!- juristi7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:32:19 -!- seven-eleven17 has joined.
17:35:57 -!- seven-eleven17 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:09:47 -!- net_ has joined.
18:45:27 -!- tobiasvl21 has joined.
18:47:31 -!- tobiasvl21 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:47:38 -!- Guest95121 has joined.
18:48:26 -!- ioa27 has joined.
18:48:34 -!- ioa27 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:51:33 -!- barrucadu22 has joined.
18:51:58 -!- Guest95121 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:52:42 -!- barrucadu22 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:58:04 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:09:27 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:12:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:12:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
19:12:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:22:33 -!- john_metcalf has joined.
19:29:59 <john_metcalf> Is something like this considered bad programming practice in C?
19:29:59 <john_metcalf> while (a != 0)
19:29:59 <john_metcalf> {
19:29:59 <john_metcalf> a ^= b ^= a ^= b %= a;
19:29:59 <john_metcalf> }
19:37:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:37:35 -!- tromp has joined.
19:37:42 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:38:09 <izabera> the only way to know is to get a job as a c programmer in a team with other people and try to get it past code review
19:47:19 -!- olsner has joined.
19:47:30 <john_metcalf> I live in the middle of no-where. No tech jobs here!
19:59:11 <\oren\> answer yes it is
19:59:43 <\oren\> it is bad programming practice chiefly because it's hard to tell from a glance what it is doing
20:01:36 <pikhq_> ^
20:02:20 <pikhq_> I'm also reasonably sure it's UB, since it modifies the same variable twice without an intervening sequence point.
20:06:25 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:08:16 -!- john_metcalf has joined.
20:14:20 <int-e> pikhq_: IIRC assignments are sequence points
20:14:42 <int-e> (let me check)
20:14:50 <pikhq_> I did not see them listed as such.
20:14:59 <pikhq_> (I might've just missed it though)
20:15:11 <pikhq_> Of course, even if it's defined behavior it's awfully naughty to do that.
20:15:19 <pikhq_> (see also: we're debating whether it is. :))
20:15:20 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:15:25 -!- lagothrix26 has joined.
20:15:58 -!- lagothrix26 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:17:23 <int-e> pikhq_: Nah it looks like I was wrong. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.
20:18:39 <wob_jonas> \oren\: it's part of a code that attempts to compute the GCD of machine integers, or integers in machine floating points. Isn't that obvious? It's a version of Euclid's algorithm.
20:19:21 <wob_jonas> I don't know what code you have to put around it to make it correct, or if it ever can, but what it is _trying_ to do is obvious enough.
20:20:56 <int-e> see the first runner-up at http://www.underhanded-c.org/_page_id_16.html
20:21:18 <wob_jonas> The xor-swap thing isn't even wrong here, because if this is C and there are no macro tricks and it compiles, then a and b are distinct objects and the compilers knows that, and a good modern compiler will know that it's effectively a swap and optimize it correctly.
20:22:18 <wob_jonas> If you use the xor-swap thing on objects that are sometimes the same, that's generally bad code, but on objects known at compile time to be non-overlapping it's not a problem.
20:22:55 <int-e> and it's still bad code
20:23:19 <pikhq_> You know what's more important than the compiler?
20:23:22 <pikhq_> The human.
20:23:23 <wob_jonas> int-e: that runner-up uses xor-swap on objects that may be the same, and that's the bug in it (or one of the bugs).
20:23:37 <wob_jonas> pikhq: sadly, humans knew the xor-swap thing before compilers did.
20:23:49 <pikhq_> *Some* humans know the xor-swap thing.
20:24:15 <pikhq_> If your code relies on the reader knowing this "one weird trick", and there's little to no benefit from doing it other than showing you're clever, it's bad code.
20:24:38 <int-e> how about... x = x + y; y = x - y; x = x - y;
20:25:18 <int-e> it almost works for floats, works for unsigned integers, and can cause undefined behavior for signed integers
20:25:22 <int-e> fun all around
20:25:27 <pikhq_> Still bad, when there's tmp = x; x = y; y = tmp; which is rather more obvious. :)
20:25:42 <wob_jonas> int-e: that can be undefined behavior because of overflow if x and y are integrals that aren't unsigned, and can produce incorrect result for floats, and I've no idea what it does for bools in C
20:26:33 <int-e> thanks for repeating what I wrote?
20:26:41 <FireFly> What does the while loop with the %= a actually do?
20:26:44 -!- tortal19 has joined.
20:26:50 <FireFly> Like I recognised the xorswap, but I'm not sure what it accomplishes in full
20:26:58 <int-e> FireFly: euclidean algorithm
20:27:00 -!- tortal19 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:27:06 <int-e> (which has been mentioned before)
20:27:07 <FireFly> ah
20:27:10 <FireFly> whoops
20:27:19 <FireFly> missed that bit
20:27:24 -!- Guest66878 has joined.
20:27:34 -!- Guest66878 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:27:42 <wob_jonas> int-e: sorry, I type slow
20:28:11 <int-e> gcd(int a, int b) { for (;;) { if (b == 0) return a; b %= a; if (a == 0) return b; a %= b; } } // yay, no swaps.
20:28:34 <int-e> and... wrong
20:28:55 <int-e> gcd(int a, int b) { for (;;) { if (b == 0) return a; a %= b; if (a == 0) return b; b %= a; } } // yay, no swaps, and not dividing by 0...
20:34:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:34:52 -!- tromp has joined.
20:39:30 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, but there's rarely a point to do either. division by a machine-sized variable is always so slow that unless you're micro-optimizing for decoded instruction cache or something crazy like that, you should probably use the algorithm with the bitwise shift and subtraction (TAOCP ch. 4.5.2 Algorithm B) instead.
20:40:26 <wob_jonas> Or just get one of the free software libraries implementing a fixed-integer gcd for you from the internets.
20:43:56 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
20:47:58 -!- ilovezfs_16 has joined.
20:49:45 -!- ilovezfs_16 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:52:23 -!- sleepnap has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
21:05:35 -!- carmony10 has joined.
21:08:08 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:08:43 -!- tromp has joined.
21:08:55 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:09:10 -!- tromp has joined.
21:09:33 -!- carmony10 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:19:34 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
21:20:27 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:20:59 -!- tromp has joined.
21:26:59 -!- vinnix10 has joined.
21:29:36 -!- vinnix10 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:30:38 -!- jkridner has joined.
21:30:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:33:26 -!- blunden23 has joined.
21:33:47 -!- jkridner has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:35:20 -!- blunden23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:42:20 -!- Hoosilon28 has joined.
21:43:39 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:43:53 -!- tromp has joined.
21:45:28 -!- Hoosilon28 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:48:56 -!- toxync145 has joined.
21:52:41 -!- toxync145 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:56:11 -!- ImpaIoo27 has joined.
21:58:51 -!- ImpaIoo27 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:10:26 -!- MoonkYang has joined.
22:10:46 -!- goapunk8 has joined.
22:10:49 -!- nfd9001 has joined.
22:12:00 -!- goapunk8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:15:11 -!- MoonkYang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:21:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:26:57 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:32:26 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:33:00 -!- tromp has joined.
22:48:18 -!- Essadon has quit (Quit: Qutting).
23:04:55 -!- erdic has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:09:06 -!- erdic has joined.
23:28:19 -!- xkapastel has joined.
23:31:10 -!- imode has joined.
23:33:48 -!- bradcomp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:33:56 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:35:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:46:47 -!- Caterpillar13 has joined.
23:46:55 -!- Caterpillar13 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:49:39 -!- olsner has joined.
23:52:54 -!- XorSwap has joined.
23:55:58 -!- zenmechanic13 has joined.
23:56:33 -!- knittl28 has joined.
23:59:52 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
←2018-09-26 2018-09-27 2018-09-28→ ↑2018 ↑all