00:31:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:37:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:00:09 -!- Essadon has quit (Quit: Qutting). 02:14:58 -!- nfd9001 has joined. 03:33:44 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:36:35 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 03:57:38 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:59:08 -!- FreeFull has quit. 04:02:05 -!- Camto has joined. 04:08:02 -!- Camto has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:24:41 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 04:24:57 zzo38: like a dragon? 04:25:16 or a hellhound that breathes fire? 04:27:57 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:28:40 I've got this weird idea for a fusion of a programming language, editor and database. the premise is that it's based on combinatory logic, but instead of you typing in expressions and evaluating them, combinators are "unevaluated" until you navigate to the branch you want to evaluate and hit "eval". 04:29:06 and you traverse/construct the expression tree like you were navigating a filesystem. 04:49:33 b_jonas: Those are some examples 05:09:37 -!- nfd has joined. 05:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:13:05 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:21:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:34:10 -!- hexfive has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2). 05:56:40 -!- moony has quit (Killed (Sigyn (BANG!))). 05:56:59 -!- moony has joined. 06:35:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:10:21 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:34:47 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Pop MAXXXIM * New user account 08:03:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:25:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:30:07 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58793&oldid=58760 * Pop MAXXXIM * (+168) /* Introductions */ 09:30:30 [[LolKek]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58794 * Pop MAXXXIM * (+1427) Created page with "LolKek - . ..." 09:35:01 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58795&oldid=58789 * Pop MAXXXIM * (+13) /* L */ 09:35:56 [[LolKek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58796&oldid=58794 * Pop MAXXXIM * (-3) 09:44:29 [[LolKek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58797&oldid=58796 * Pop MAXXXIM * (+783) 09:48:10 [[LolKek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58798&oldid=58797 * Pop MAXXXIM * (+78) 10:03:11 -!- b_jonas has joined. 10:07:39 [[Andromeda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58799&oldid=56198 * ZM * (+47) Related languages 10:17:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:08:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:34:36 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:04:51 -!- Hooloovo0 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:15:35 [[Talk:Wire-crossing problem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58800&oldid=58792 * Ais523 * (+125) /* Boolean circuits? */ sig 12:43:16 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 13:02:05 -!- arseniiv has joined. 13:08:55 -!- imode has joined. 14:00:23 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:15:41 -!- Essadon has joined. 14:20:28 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:29:29 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:30:36 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 15:01:45 -!- arseniiv has joined. 15:10:57 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dirkdev98 * New user account 15:13:19 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58801&oldid=58793 * Dirkdev98 * (+124) /* Introductions */ 15:25:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:28:40 too we seriously need a policy that articles must be in english... 15:28:44 *do 15:29:06 oerjan: I disagree. we should accept articles in other languages too. 15:33:24 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 15:34:15 *sigh* 15:36:01 i take it you understand LolKek perfectly, then. 15:36:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:36:13 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 15:36:34 i suspect it has limited byte size... 15:38:11 b_jonas: i mean, the language doesn't even look russian-themed, the command themselves are english-based 15:38:16 *commands 15:38:26 it's just the specification. 15:38:56 oerjan: "english-based"? no, those are just assembly mnemonics, the actual commands are single bytes with the bits shown on the right 15:39:43 but even if they were named, so what? have you seen localized Excel or Logo? they're horrible 15:40:24 it makes sense to have command mnemonics in English. I mean, think about it, there's not even any sane Hungarian words for "stack", "hash", "deque", and those are just the basics, it gets worse after that when you want loops or something 15:41:03 oerjan: there's a good reason why that one too has docs that calls a stack "стек" 15:41:27 oh i didn't notice the bits, they were almost beyond the scrollbar 15:41:46 mind you, I hate languages like this, stack-based and have arithmetic operations but no comparison 15:41:59 you know, like Blindfolded arithmetics 15:48:37 [[Re:direction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58802&oldid=58791 * Oerjan * (+5) fix link 15:49:47 -!- MDude has joined. 16:07:11 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58803&oldid=58801 * Oerjan * (+0) *beglmru* 16:09:24 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58804&oldid=58803 * Oerjan * (-30) Oops 16:21:46 [[Re:direction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58805&oldid=58802 * Oerjan * (-5) typo 16:28:12 -!- nchambers has joined. 16:30:13 -!- nchambers has changed nick to Rudolph. 17:23:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:29:08 -!- xkapastel has joined. 17:34:07 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:22:59 -!- Rudolph has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2). 18:50:46 If you know their meaning in English then you should write the article in English too 18:51:16 -!- rodgort has joined. 18:58:49 Also, the categories will still need to be English even if the article itself isn't. 19:02:31 zzo38: it's not worth for such stupid articles. am I supposed to write good articles on all the brainfuck substitutions too? 19:03:22 if it was something worthwhile, I might document it. I did so with some languages that weren't yet summarized in the esowiki. 19:10:08 hi, if my language expertise is of any use, I’m here 19:13:50 yeah seems it isn’t Russian-based, but the description is too terse but it doesn’t seem anything special, just stacks, variables, arithmetic, (bitwise?) logic, delay (what for? but ok) and two strange things named “increment/decrement of the stack by k4” — IDK what it means 19:15:22 arseniiv: stacks of limited capacity too 19:15:27 VERY limited 19:15:36 so limited it's basically pointless 19:15:45 oh, so it’s even Turing-incomplete 19:15:55 what a shame :D :( 19:16:05 arseniiv: I'm not claiming that. it may have some stuff other than the stack that stores data 19:16:11 I don't quite understand what it says 19:16:50 BTW have you someone know about algebraic effects? I read about them several months ago and they seemed very beautiful to me 19:17:50 yeah you guess right, let me translate, it definitely states the following at the start of the description: 19:21:55 OK, you don't have to do, the 19:22:11 > Stack — the main stack, 64 levels [I think it’s not a usual word here, but it should mean the maximal length is 64], with 32-bit value [each level has a 32-bit value, it probably means] 19:22:11 > Stack2 — the additional stack, 32 levels, 32-bit values 19:22:11 > variables — 14 in total, with 32-bit values 19:22:15 :1:23: error: parse error on input ‘,’ 19:22:15 :1:30: error: parse error on input ‘,’ 19:22:15 :1:16: error: parse error on input ‘in’ 19:22:33 oh sorry lambdabot, I didn’t mean that 19:22:44 @botsnack 19:22:44 :) 19:23:06 fungot: do you have a as well? 19:23:06 int-e: for the hon. and learned friend the minister for that, and i have is sharing the community of fnord, the home of the other channel 4 creative and fnord industries, most fnord junction and areas to be police blind. the 19%, the state, leaving the people with the expertise. 19:23:31 arseniiv: a stack of depth 64. seems normal, given that stacks are supposedly illustrated by stacks of plates in elegant buffets moved by a spring so that the top plate is always at the same heigth 19:23:46 I couldn’t quite place where the author means to take non-zero values for variables (are Incr/Decr for that), though 19:24:07 I don't think any buffet actually uses such spring mechanism these days, but it's a nice image nevertheless. 19:25:27 yeah, I think “levels” there mean stack cells, there is no sane alternatives, but the author could word it more normally as “стек глубины 64”, literally “of depth 64” 19:25:49 a buffet image is interesting, I haven’t heard of it :) 19:26:29 though I don’t remember what image was supposed to illustrate stacks when I first read about them 19:26:48 Is "стек" an authentic transcription? 19:27:38 yeah, there is an alternative стэк, but it is worse and it’s not normative I think 19:27:38 arseniiv: yeah, it's a pity there's no good Hungarian translation for "stack", especially not one that doesn't just sound like a "heap", not even counting the ambiguity where "heap" means two completely different things in algorithms 19:27:47 the state of art is "verem". :-( 19:28:17 and that's typical for all the mathematics terminology. it works well in English and even better in French, but very few people care about making it work in Hungarian. 19:28:25 especially these days. 19:28:52 IOW, nobody likes Hungarian notation. 19:29:03 there’s an inconvenience with Russian е that usually it makes the preceding consonant palatalized, but in loanwords it usually doesn’t. There’s э for that, but a small set of loanwords uses it for that 19:29:35 so стек is easier on the eyes, however irregular it really is 19:30:21 I did expect 'э'. But I guess 'styek' is close enough. I agree it's easier on the eyes. 19:30:42 And closer to actual russian words. 19:31:12 In the end it is what it is. 19:31:35 b_jonas: oh, you remind me of поток, which could mean stream or thread. So some people used to translate the latter literally as нить. These days I think people got accustomed to homonymy 19:31:44 My New Year's resolution is my New Year's resolution. https://xkcd.com/703/ 19:32:01 maybe it's a steak. though how you can push and pull 32-bit values on a steak, I don't know 19:32:50 int-e: meh, once you get used to the crazy English homonyms, all the others seem tame 19:33:15 especially of fields. English maths terminology does borrow from german occasionally, so why didn't they just say "corpse" or "corps" or something? 19:33:15 A steak is plenty enough for more than 8 nibbles. 19:33:18 int-e: do note however that it’s read as /stek/, without palatalization (I may have worded that unclearly) 19:34:06 www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-03-20.2284.html#d.2015-03-20.2284 surely I have linked to this piece of writing about English used for maths articles, right? 19:34:12 arseniiv: it didn't get across but I think that's my fault, not yours. 19:35:29 okay :) 19:35:34 arseniiv: meh, since I do read some Hungarian texts, I'm totally used to english loanwords being spelled with random english spellings, that NEVER GET CHANGED OVER TO SANE PHONETIC SPELLINGS, ever, not even when the word is obviously nativized and everyone knows it, 19:35:51 like how people still spell "ímél" as "e-mail", 19:36:14 and the fucking Academy is such a pushover that they even officially allow the latter as a valid alternative in their spelling rules, 19:36:46 probably because they're afraid that if they didn't do so, sysadmins would get angry at them, and sysadmins being angry with you is the right kind of thing to fear. those guys hold lots of power. 19:36:49 we should stick to tradition and say "electronic mail" and "idiotic phone" as we used to. 19:37:56 :D 19:45:45 I don’t like typical Russian attitude to language norm, it’s too strict, people untaught in linguistics proper often believe there can/should be only one correct word spelling or punctuation in a sentence, or that a normative language should be used not only in special places but everywhere, sometimes it gets horrible. I hope the future attitude to Russian language would be more free, and also less commas in the punctuation rules. Cu 19:45:45 rrently there is a plethora of purely syntactic commas which do not clarify the meaning, and in several cases they even obscure it as there is a comma after every word (meh). Then on the internets people often write without punctuation at all, as its rules are too complex, and get incoherent 19:46:03 (I’m biased though) 19:48:11 arseniiv: ah, prescriptionists 19:48:29 wait, "purely syntactic commas"? what are those? 19:48:49 "I will say, that a man must be a d—d fool, who can’t spell a word more than one way." -- https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/06/25/spelling/ tracking down a quote often attributed to Mark Twain. 19:48:53 the Hungarian rules for commas make much more sense than the English ones. I don't understand how you could get anything worse than the random "rules" people use for English 19:49:33 b_jonas: yeah them 19:49:58 what? 19:50:08 In English, most commas are a matter of style, not rules. 19:50:54 @google "Oxford comma" 19:50:55 https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/ 19:52:18 yeah, I may be exaggerating a bit about the Hungarian rules 19:52:19 but still 19:52:39 . o O ( People have, said that there is no way a comma, can ever be, wrong in English. But people are often wr,ong. ) 19:53:35 wait, "purely syntactic commas"? what are those? => I meant here those that surround a syntagm or something sufficietly syntagm-like, for several syntagm types these commas are almost obligatory, for example for postpositive participle phrases (if I mean it right) consisting of not a participle only 19:54:37 also there are many idiosyncratic exceptions almost to every rule, spelling and punctuation alike 19:55:21 arseniiv: yeah. like the rule about the comma with certain common conjunctions in Hungarian. those things are crazy. 19:55:27 it's only the inter-clause commas that have sane rules. 19:55:28 b_jonas> what? => I mean, prescriptionists 19:56:36 I myself don’t like some ways to (ab)use language, sometimes even hate, but I don’t want to prescribe my feelings to anyone. At least for now 19:57:10 arseniiv: You have to underatand: How can we have our lives governed by computers if there are no strict rules to follow? 19:58:01 arseniiv: oh, you mean the people who think spell checkers are always right? both the ones with the american dictionary and the british dictionary? 19:58:28 or the Hungarian dictionaries that try to tell you that Hungarian inflection is deterministic? 19:59:23 b_jonas: oh, about conjunctions I can give an interesting example: да when it used as a synonym to и, is written without a comma (as и (and) does, in default case), but with a comma preceding when it’s synonymous to но (but), as does the latter 20:00:50 I mean, I thought people would just figure out from just listening to native speakers inflecting nouns just how random it is and how different people inflect the same uncommon or rare or mythic rare words entirely differently, 20:00:57 but no. 20:02:00 there's certainly some crazy logic to how inflections are formed, because it's one of the main cues how anyone can easily recognize a non-native speaker in Hungarian, even if he's been living here for ten years and has the perfect accent and a large vocabulary 20:02:32 normal people's minds are just not made to imitate the crazy contrievances that native Hungarian speakers use to accept some inflected forms and reject others 20:04:08 b_jonas: hehe yes. Also we are taught in schools about three noun declensions, then latter there are several (unnumbered) declension types, but the truth that there are much more than these (albeit they are encountered rarely, I presume) remains uncovered 20:04:27 oh I was typing too slowly 20:04:39 it was about prescriptionists 20:05:25 I think you could make a multiple choice test of just inflecting nouns in hungarian that detects native speakers 20:06:29 -!- rain2 has joined. 20:07:17 -!- rain1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:08:44 `grWp doctor 20:08:46 boily:“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world kafkaesque. \ dwfo:DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra, . \ semmelweis:Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousa 20:09:56 (my mind found "doctor" in the vicinity of "prescriptionist") 20:13:41 int-e: they have to be. 20:13:52 also there is a phenomenon of orthoepy, prescriptions about word stress. Russian stress is very wild (and certainly is a problem to non-native learners) for historic reasons, and stress of many word forms is for a long time is in state of flux, but there are people saying that these words should be accented this way and no other, it’s even worse than written-language prescriptionism. They aren’t even consciously aware of what rules s 20:13:52 tress does actually follow (and it isn’t taught in schools, because for what reason? natives accentuate almost all words the same way, there’s nothing to teach), and they don’t like something, psh 20:16:15 arseniiv: yeah, it's one of those historical raisins thing where the stress rules make sense until a lot of signals that determined stress, like a four times larger vowel inventory than today, was still there in the words to give you a clue about where the stress should fall 20:16:22 typical linguistic evolution 20:16:36 yeah 20:17:39 ah yes, exceptional words like "kisebb", "lesz", "köpeny", "szőlő", which many people pronounce differently from how they're written, so the spelling has to be specifically taught in school 20:18:20 hope there aren’t so many of them 20:18:33 in Hungarian, I mean 20:19:39 arseniiv: there didn't use to be, until people started spelling every word borrowed from English, like ímél and fájl, the English way 20:19:44 and there's just more and more of those words 20:20:12 oh so there’s a certain blessing in having non-latin script 20:21:41 yes 20:29:58 just like you said about the stack 20:30:04 spelled totally regular 20:30:30 . o O ( "spelt" ) 20:32:48 I have thought that 'full and 'null rhyme, poor me 20:57:17 oh, um, have someone added a language to Try it online? 21:12:57 I had idea of this kind of parsing: The parsing table is an array of cells, each is either blank or a pair of a symbol (a terminal or nonterminal) and action (either a return value or another address). If the symbol is a terminal and it matches, do the action and advance the input; if the symbol is a nonterminal, push the current address to call stack and jump to the address of the nonterminal. 21:14:12 If the action is a return value, add that value to the output and then pop from call stack and do the action specified there. If the action is another address, you jump to that address. If a blank is reached, then you must back track. 21:14:28 zzo38: I don't know what the question is, but ask ais523 21:15:13 My question is how to optimize the grammar and generate an optimized parser table from it? 21:16:33 -!- derpy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:16:53 -!- derpy has joined. 21:28:32 One thing to do is that it will be a context-free grammar and must be made proper. 21:34:50 Some kind of optimizations that would be possible includes that subtables can be merged if they are same or if one is a suffix of the other one (so that some possible symbols are not possible in one of the cases). Also to consider merging meaning codes of terminal symbols, to reduce the size of the parse table. 21:34:55 zzo38: is this different to LALR parsing? 21:35:04 it sounds very similar 21:35:12 maybe you can just use the LALR algorithm 21:35:45 Is it? LALR doesn't have back tracking, isn't it? 21:41:28 LALR parsing tables also are working differently than what I mentioned, I think. 21:53:51 ah 22:11:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 22:14:04 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:25:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:56:13 [[Re:direction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58806&oldid=58805 * Ais523 * (+96) /* Hello world program */ switch to Esolang, not TIO, capitalisation 22:57:26 [[Re:direction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58807&oldid=58806 * Ais523 * (+83) /* External resources */ TIO link 22:58:52 [[Talk:The Waterfall Model]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58808&oldid=58785 * Ais523 * (+196) /* Truth-machine */ OK, this is correct then 23:00:56 [[Re:direction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58809&oldid=58807 * Ais523 * (+1) /* Computational class */ typo fix 23:02:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:03:19 zzo38: real parsers use something quite similar to your mechanism, but it has to be more complex because the way that a terminal is translated to a value often depends on context 23:04:50 I'm not sure how you'd determine which cell of the table to use in your mechanism; after backtracking you'd have to somehow reach a different cell the next time 23:05:00 so in that case, the choice of cell has to depend on context 23:05:25 I think the result once you do that will end up fairly close to either LR(1), LALR, or GLR; I'm not sure if it will be exactly the same 23:15:06 After backtracking you try the cell immediately after the one you have used before (it may be blank, in which case you have to backtrack again). 23:17:12 oh hey! I successfully summoned ais523 from wherever he's hiding behind the logs. that's so rare!@ 23:18:05 zzo38: oh, I see 23:19:03 is that just recursive descent? 23:21:18 I suppose it is similar, although includes the possibility to undo tokens that have already been accepted. 23:23:03 I think you can do that in recursive descent too if the language naturally has backtracking 23:23:11 e.g. parsers in Prolog commonly use recursive descent 23:28:46 on another subject: is a TCness proof (without I/O) for Blindfolded Arithmetic on two variables total, X starting at 1, Y starting at 0; I linked it so that people can avoid spoilers if they want to 23:29:19 although it is, probably unsurprisingly, ridiculously inefficient 23:29:35 I was a little surprised by which language I ended up implementing 23:35:25 ais523: does ghc use it to parse the contradictory fixity statements that affect where the invisible braces are earlier in the code? or is that using a sat solver? 23:35:45 ais523: whoa, two variables proved? wow 23:35:54 I'll definitely not look at it yet 23:36:03 I want to figure out how three variables are possible. 23:36:40 three was so much easier because you had a temporary 23:36:54 with two you have to go the really long way round to get anywhere :-( 23:36:58 ais523: well yes, that's sort of the point. with enough temporaries, it becomes trivial 23:37:15 I mean, for just storing data, obviously just one bigint is more than enough 23:37:47 my current idea is to use a base 4 deque that we try to access from both sides, but I'm not sure it really works with just three variables 23:42:16 that base 4 deque example reminds me a lot of High Rise 23:42:58 I mean, if four variables can emulate two stacks, then maybe one variable can emulate one stack that's not really a stack 23:44:53 but it gets ugly, because you need to preserve a power of two variable around the loop an arbitrary number of times 23:45:34 unless you want something limited to like 2**32 stack elements, because you could totally do that because Blindfolded can square powers of two in one operation, so surely it can generate any power of two up to 2**32 in O(32) operations 23:46:02 but you wouldn't call that Turing-complete, right? it would be sufficient for me to claim the language can practically do anything, but you keep me straight about those things 23:46:13 yes, I would call that a bounded-storage machine 23:46:26 which is one of those computational classes which is practically very useful but theoretically not very interesting (other than the issues with defining it) 23:46:52 that's what led to me thinking deeper about Consumer society (it didn't have that name yet) to figure out if it can actually emulate a RAM machine that can theoretically grow arbitrarily big, 23:47:19 as opposed to just emulate one that can grow to a limit in a few consecutive up arrows from the code size 23:47:40 and yes it can, but it's harder than just the up arrow construction, and that's what makes it an interesting language 23:48:22 just a turing machine or just a fixed size RAM is easy, but you can put them together, which is why Consumer society is so magical that I have to document it before someone figures out what the language is from all the hints I've been dropping 23:49:09 I got the idea that Consumer society is obviously TC but not obviously efficiently TC 23:49:39 it's sort of the reverse, at least to my way of thinking 23:50:20 it can obviously emulate a 32-bit memory, or even a 64-bit memory (I mean, you just double the code size or something), but the TC was a surprise to me 23:50:45 it's that thing where if you make something powerful enough, it automatically becomes TC. you have to do difficult stuff to STOP it from being TC. 23:51:04 also, seeing a partially uncapitalised proper noun bothers me, I guess this is why so many people miscapitalise brainfuck 23:51:59 I don't buy the british concept of capitalizing everything 23:52:20 why would real wizards write "Quidditch" with a capital? it's an ordinary proper noun. and "Apparition" too? 23:52:25 well, "proper nouns use capital letters" is a grammar rule of English in much the same way as "plurals normally end in s" is 23:52:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:52:51 that screams of it being narrated from an outside perspective where they're not ordinary common words, but practically HP trademarks in our worls 23:53:07 and it's not like HP started that, Winnie the Pooh is full of that stuff too 23:53:24 the original version has way more capitalized words than Karinthy's translation 23:54:52 one reason to capitalise a term in English is that it's a technical term that has been introduced for a specific context, as a clue that you've redefined the word away from its normal meaning 23:55:23 e.g. when we play Mafia, "day" refers to a 24-hour real-life period, "Day" to a simulated day within the game's internal timescale (which doesn't normally run in realtime) 23:55:32 yeah, because quidditch wouldn't stand out as an obviously made up word otherwise 23:56:26 sports tend to only get a lowercase name once they become really popular 23:56:54 like extreme ironing? 23:56:54 I think chess may be close to the borderline, the initial C tends to hover between uppercase and lowercase depending on who you ask 23:57:04 hmm, that's a better example 23:57:23 extreme ironing is a descriptive name, rather than an organised activity 23:57:31 if you capitalised it I'd expect there to be a formal ruleset written down somewhere 23:57:53 yeah 23:58:11 the truth of the matter is simply that Hungarian has totally different and weird rules for capitalization, and I'm used to them 23:58:21 e.g. the Extreme Ironing World Championships has capital letters, unsurprisingly 23:59:07 and even though some of them are really stupid, I prefer it over capitalizing every instance of "Monday" as if it wasn't a common name for the day of week concept that existed for OVER FOUR THOUSAND YEARS but got its name later 23:59:11 seriously, "Monday"? 23:59:25 I mean, "August" I can get behind, if the legends about a certain roman emperor are true 23:59:44 he's in like the top few most successful historical figures of Europe