←2019-01-15 2019-01-16 2019-01-17→ ↑2019 ↑all
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00:06:46 <esowiki> [[Quite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59209&oldid=59202 * Areallycoolusername * (+838)
00:09:15 <oerjan> hey come back i can answer that
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00:10:21 <salpynx> The 'abs value' part is probably unnecessary too. I'm looking for a measure that most usefully (to me) gives X({5}) = 5, I imagine would give X({4, 1}) = 4 (just to be clear the answer isn't always 5!), but I could probably use a different result if required. For 'esoteric' design reasons, I'd really like it to be a measure, but am reasonale enough to not argue with reality. Also, I am probably a bit over my head with the notation
00:10:24 <oerjan> salpynx: your measure fails the criterion that the measure of a disjoint union should be the sum of the measures
00:10:34 <oerjan> (finite or countable union)
00:13:42 <oerjan> for a measure where single point sets are measurable, the value of those determine the whole measure in the obvious way
00:13:53 <oerjan> *value on those
00:14:43 <oerjan> er
00:14:51 <salpynx> oerjan: thanks! I'll digest that a bit, but I think I get it. I was suspecting something was wrong with it, but wasn't sure exactly where
00:15:29 <oerjan> _unless_ some uncountable set of one-point sets all have measure 0.
00:15:52 <oerjan> but you seem to be looking at integers so uncountability doesn't come up
00:16:51 <oerjan> (although the lebesgue measure involves those essentially)
00:18:48 <salpynx> yes, limiting to integers. Does that mean there is literally no useful measure on a 1-point set that could convert it into an integer? (I think) I understand why it is always 0 in the Lebesgue case, and that the Counting measure would give 1, in every case
00:19:15 <salpynx> sorry, an integer based on the content of the set
00:19:23 <oerjan> i mean integers as the _elements_ of the set
00:19:27 <salpynx> differing between different sets of size=1
00:20:11 <oerjan> you can have such measures, for example you can have a measure that's abs(n) for each integer n.
00:20:13 <salpynx> oh, yes, integers are the contents of the set... ah, right, that's probably an unreasonable requirement
00:20:37 <oerjan> it's just that it will be a sum for larger sets
00:20:56 <salpynx> so X({5,1}) = 6 ?
00:21:03 <oerjan> yeah
00:21:20 <salpynx> nice thanks, that was an early plan b
00:21:47 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59210&oldid=59146 * Areallycoolusername * (+25) /* Q */
00:22:32 <oerjan> hm in fact you can have that for non-integers too, it's just that all infinite sets get infinite measure.
00:22:50 <oerjan> but lebesgue measure also has infinite measure sets
00:23:03 <oerjan> wait, not all
00:23:31 <oerjan> convergent series also work, like {1/n^2 | n integer }
00:24:24 <oerjan> i'm not sure if i'm doing something wrong here
00:25:59 <salpynx> oerjan: you'll be horrified to know that the reason I'm think about this stuff is because of that Cactuși language page, and an idea I had to "improve" it by incorporating the work of Romanian mathematicians, the Ionescu Tulceas... now I am just trying to expand my understanding of the maths, which is probably beneficial
00:27:58 <salpynx> extended reals are ok, +∞ for measures?
00:28:29 <oerjan> yes otherwise the lebesgue measure wouldn't work
00:28:55 <oerjan> don't try to combine that with negative measures though, then it usually goes haywire
00:30:04 <oerjan> . o O ( try Voiculescu hth )
00:30:27 * oerjan prepares to watch salpynx run away screaming
00:34:40 <salpynx> oh dear, I probably am going to have to check some of that out. I'm in way over my head already with the Lifting Theory stuff I was (trying to) read by the Ionescu Tulceas, they worked on ergodic theory too, which _might_ be related to some of his stuff, I see a paper Free Entropy in his bio?
00:35:27 <salpynx> If I do anything with this I'll have to say 'inspired by' rather than 'making use of' to cover any failures of understanding on my part
00:36:10 <oerjan> looking at it, Ionescu-Tulcea are probably pretty hairy too
00:37:10 <oerjan> salpynx: i'm just mentioning Voiculescu because he's the one romanian mathematician i remember citing when i did my PhD
00:37:43 <oerjan> probably cannot remember most of the stuff today
00:37:56 <salpynx> oh yeah, the joke for this planned language / extension is that I don't really know what I'm doing by cramming all this maths in for no sensible reason :)
00:38:37 <oerjan> should be perfect then
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00:54:45 <salpynx> basic idea is that simple data type is sets, used to construct measure spaces, and sets are measured... I want lifting to be in there somehow, but I don't have a fully appropriate use for that (and probably am misinterpreting it). Graphs are kinda in there, but don't really add anything. Category theory seems potentially relevant.
00:57:49 <salpynx> my goal is to either create something that works to some extent, with an implemented interpreter, and be at least slightly true to the maths, otherwise it's a failed project
01:02:02 <salpynx> thanks oerjan and b_jonas for helping me improve my understanding of measures!
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05:27:45 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59211&oldid=59201 * A * (+2501)
05:28:27 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59212&oldid=59211 * A * (+31)
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05:59:20 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59213&oldid=57342 * A * (+278)
05:59:57 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59214&oldid=59213 * A * (+50)
06:00:41 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59215&oldid=59214 * A * (-191)
06:02:41 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59216&oldid=59215 * A * (+36)
06:03:16 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59217&oldid=59216 * A * (+73)
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06:27:43 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59218&oldid=59212 * A * (+147)
06:31:00 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59219&oldid=59218 * A * (+4)
06:31:35 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59220&oldid=59219 * A * (+2617)
06:45:01 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59221&oldid=59220 * A * (+499)
06:49:00 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59222&oldid=59221 * A * (+3357)
07:15:28 <oerjan> `icode –
07:15:29 <HackEso> ​[U+2013 EN DASH]
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08:00:06 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Recent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59223&oldid=37400 * Oerjan * (+4) Step #1
08:00:16 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59224&oldid=59044 * Oerjan * (+898) /* Archive */ Step #2
08:00:23 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Current]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59225&oldid=37398 * Oerjan * (-3) Step #3
08:00:35 <esowiki> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59226&oldid=58931 * Oerjan * (+18) Step #4
08:00:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59227&oldid=58383 * Oerjan * (-100) /* List of candidates */ Step #5
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08:02:44 <esowiki> [[Printscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59228&oldid=59196 * A * (-13)
08:03:02 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59229&oldid=59217 * A * (-13)
08:42:28 <myname> uh, is funciton now featured?
08:42:30 <myname> love it
09:22:18 <esowiki> [[Eternity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59230&oldid=52456 * Jabutosama * (+153) made the site finally readable and robust. Added mild irony to the summary section. Yes, i am this unfunny, I know.
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09:28:24 <esowiki> [[User:Jabutosama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59231&oldid=58083 * Jabutosama * (+524) remade it all
09:28:34 <esowiki> [[User:Jabutosama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59232&oldid=59231 * Jabutosama * (-6) /* "I think I am ok.... But who knows? What if I were not? Could i see a difference? Hm? Just keep living oi." */
09:28:43 <esowiki> [[User:Jabutosama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59233&oldid=59232 * Jabutosama * (-2) /* "I think I am ok.... But who knows? What if I were not? Could i see a difference? Hm? Just keep living oi." */
09:29:57 <esowiki> [[User:Jabutosama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59234&oldid=59233 * Jabutosama * (+37)
09:43:20 <esowiki> [[Printscript 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59235&oldid=59222 * A * (+19)
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09:48:21 <oerjan> myname: there was a brief breakdown in my procrastination. service should recommence shortly.
09:49:34 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59236 * A * (+3983) Created page with "Version 13 modifies the arithematic functions to make it support variable modifying. The original functions are modified as variable modifying: <pre> set a ! set b ! add a b..."
09:49:51 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59237&oldid=59236 * A * (+13) /* Implementation */
09:50:52 <myname> good, good
09:51:20 <myname> i want to procrastinate more, but sadly enough, i have a job
09:57:14 <Luciole> I'm good at procrastinating a bit even whilst at work
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10:11:17 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59238&oldid=59237 * A * (+4411)
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10:27:45 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59239&oldid=59238 * A * (+5400)
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10:48:16 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59240&oldid=59239 * A * (-170)
10:56:32 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59241&oldid=59240 * A * (-43)
10:59:55 <myname> the hell is with this A guy
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11:04:01 <wob_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190115.html
11:04:03 <HackEso> bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190115.html: b_jonas
11:04:23 <wob_jonas> myname: A has like five aliases on the wiki
11:04:31 <myname> oh dear
11:04:40 <myname> are all of those as horrible as this?
11:08:00 <myname> like, it just looks like he is reinventing assembler last time i checked
11:08:04 <myname> but worse
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11:24:31 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59242&oldid=59241 * A * (+5396)
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12:43:57 <esowiki> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59243&oldid=58968 * A * (+82)
12:44:32 <esowiki> [[Printscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59244&oldid=59228 * A * (+37) /* See Also */
12:45:11 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59245&oldid=59242 * A * (+65)
12:46:07 <esowiki> [[Printscript 13]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59246&oldid=59245 * A * (+59)
12:47:28 <esowiki> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59247&oldid=59243 * A * (+1) bad grammar
12:48:18 <esowiki> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59248&oldid=59247 * A * (+3)
12:49:40 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59249&oldid=59229 * A * (+106)
12:55:29 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59250&oldid=59082 * A * (+150) Another idea
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14:53:07 <esowiki> [[User:Arseniiv/Subsandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59251 * Arseniiv * (+109) I hope it will go as expected
14:53:36 <arseniiv> okay so subpages are allowed here
14:54:57 <esowiki> [[User:Arseniiv]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59252&oldid=57423 * Arseniiv * (+30) Subsandbox link for it to not be an orphan
15:00:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Printscript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59253 * Arseniiv * (+509) /* Created because this page has too much information. */ new section
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17:06:43 <int-e> @metar lppt
17:06:44 <lambdabot> LPPT 161700Z VRB02KT 3500 BR FEW010 BKN034 11/11 Q1018
17:07:18 <int-e> (unpleasantly humid)
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18:23:53 <esowiki> [[HuffPuff]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59254 * Areallycoolusername * (+553) Created page with "A language made by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]]. It's a [[Brainfuck]] derivative, and the only valid command "HUFFLEPUFF", and "HUFFLEPUFFLET". {| class..."
18:24:12 <esowiki> [[HuffPuff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59255&oldid=59254 * Areallycoolusername * (-2)
18:25:15 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59256&oldid=59172 * Areallycoolusername * (+28) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
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20:52:50 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex/sus++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59257&oldid=59168 * Cortex * (-3902) Replaced content with "lol nvm"
20:53:14 <esowiki> [[$ $]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59258&oldid=59139 * Cortex * (+11)
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21:25:17 <oren> is there any concievable difference between (float) and static_cast<float> at runtime?
21:26:51 <shachaf> Isn't it odd that C calls both float->int and float *-> int * conversion the same thing?
21:26:59 <b_jonas> oren: no
21:27:18 <b_jonas> but static_cast<float> is more restricted, can be applied to fewer types
21:28:05 <b_jonas> shachaf: don't question the basic principles that our prophets K&R have layed down. it's not odd.
21:28:06 <oren> ah
21:28:40 <b_jonas> oren: not by much probably though
21:28:47 <b_jonas> they're more or less the same
21:28:53 <b_jonas> well
21:28:57 <b_jonas> I'm not entirely sure, sadly
21:29:29 <b_jonas> there was some strange thing with user-defined types that can give very unintuitive results for casts when classes have a strange interface
21:29:39 <arseniiv> (completely unrelated: do I remember right K&R also had defined B, or was it a more collective work?)
21:30:02 <arseniiv> (I suddenly wondered what if we had B++)
21:30:02 <b_jonas> but I think that only results in casts being surprisingly a compile error or surprisingly not a compile error
21:30:28 <b_jonas> I think when static_cast, const_cast, or reinterpret_cast is valid, then they do the same as a C-style cast
21:30:46 <b_jonas> no wait
21:31:08 <b_jonas> maybe there was something when the C-style cast was different because it called a ... I dunno really
21:31:11 <b_jonas> hack
21:31:14 <b_jonas> heck
21:31:30 <b_jonas> oren: sorry, the casts are so complicated and ugly that I really don't understand them in the general case
21:31:46 <b_jonas> you'll probably have to ask ##C++, they know the rules better
21:31:50 <shachaf> #define cast
21:32:02 <oren> well luckily I only needed the anwer in the particular case of float and int and such
21:32:20 <b_jonas> I can write casts to do what I want, but I can't predict what they do when they're ones I wouldn't write
21:32:32 <oren> in order to ensure I am not losing my mind
21:32:43 <b_jonas> oren: oh, between built-in numeric types, static cast and C style cast should be the same
21:33:17 <b_jonas> except perhaps for C complexes, which the C++ rules don't acknowledge, so the behavior of static_cast isn't really defined for htem
21:34:03 <b_jonas> oren: note though that casting a float to an int can invoke undefined behavior when there's an overflow, so a compiler _could_ give different undefined behavior for a C style cast vs a static_cast in theory
21:34:07 <b_jonas> it's unlikely that they would
21:34:07 <arseniiv> . o O ( casts are like typeclass instances at their worst but are even more obscure )
21:34:36 <b_jonas> if you need to avoid the undefined behavior, you'll have to call library functions instead of casting
21:35:10 <b_jonas> because of that undefined behavior, in practice it's not easy to use float to integer cast correctly
21:35:20 <b_jonas> you can only really do it after some comparisons to check the range of the input
21:35:47 <arseniiv> wasn’t it _to_ float though?
21:36:17 <oren> arseniiv: yeah in the instances it's either int to float or double to float (template function)
21:36:36 <oren> or float to float
21:36:37 <b_jonas> arseniiv: oh, that's better, yes
21:36:54 <oren> it's a template fucntion from class T to float
21:37:01 <b_jonas> to float is safe
21:37:02 <arseniiv> (float to float cast is my favorite!!)
21:37:36 <b_jonas> except that C++ doesn't know about C complex floats, so I don't know if you can static_cast a C complex to a real
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22:59:19 <b_jonas> does every ebay electronic seller now inclue a totally unrelated cheap item as a supposed color variant or size variant into their sold item listing to cause ebay to display a lower price?
22:59:57 <b_jonas> it's getting boring
23:15:28 <esowiki> [[11CORTLANG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59259 * Cortex * (+1041) Created page with "'''11CORTLANG''' (the 11th language by [[User:Cortex|]]) is a stack-based language made by [[User:Cortex|]] using only the characters 0, 1, space, and newline. == Syntax and..."
23:15:43 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59260&oldid=59171 * Cortex * (+17)
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