←2019-01-17 2019-01-18 2019-01-19→ ↑2019 ↑all
00:03:33 <esowiki> [[11CORTLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59266&oldid=59259 * Cortex * (-234)
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00:08:13 <esowiki> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59268 * Salpynx * (+8322) I've been sitting on this for ages. 'joke' complete, but help wanted to finish the maths, if anyone feels like taking this seriously
00:10:21 <esowiki> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59269&oldid=59268 * Salpynx * (-2) /* Comparison with HQ9+ */
00:11:38 <esowiki> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59270&oldid=59269 * Salpynx * (-2) /* External resources */
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00:20:56 <esowiki> [[QETAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59271&oldid=59170 * Cortex * (-1939) Replaced content with "delete this ~~~~"
00:21:11 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59272&oldid=59260 * Cortex * (-12)
00:30:17 <esowiki> [[11CORTLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59273&oldid=59266 * Cortex * (+126) /* Syntax and commands */
00:33:57 <esowiki> [[11CORTLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59274&oldid=59273 * Cortex * (+74)
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00:52:17 <int-e> `'
00:52:17 <HackEso> 819) <Fiora> usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it
00:59:09 <esowiki> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59275&oldid=59270 * Salpynx * (+69) /* Display limitations */ oops, forgot those when pasting old code
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01:14:51 <esowiki> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59276&oldid=59275 * Salpynx * (+0)
01:21:34 <salpynx> ok, I'm done with that for today. I probably have other related code snippets to string maniulation, but the L-function stuff is there published on the Wolfram Development platform, which I have only played around with briefly for this demo. Also available: imaginary bottles of beer code in python, which gives entertaining results.
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01:36:58 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KrystosTheOverlord * New user account
01:42:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59277&oldid=59131 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+419) /* Introductions */
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02:12:32 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59278 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+1183) Created page with "== @NUM == '''@NUM''' is my first programming language (the name is based on the structure of the code). The language itself consists of a syntax of 11 "words". @NUM is based..."
02:16:27 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59279&oldid=59278 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+78)
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02:29:34 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59280&oldid=59279 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+374)
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03:10:49 <esowiki> [[11CORTLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59281&oldid=59274 * Cortex * (+442)
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05:37:29 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59282&oldid=59272 * Cortex * (+26)
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07:43:44 <zzo38> Someone mentioned "In my flying dreams I always have wings, which I understand is uncommon". Is it uncommon? What is you?
07:51:37 <int-e> what are dreams?
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09:29:58 <atriq> I don't think I ever have flying dreams
09:30:02 <atriq> Oh, I'm atriq
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09:30:38 <Taneb> I do seem to have occasional Donald Trump dreams, regretfully
09:30:43 <shachaf> `? atriq
09:30:44 <HackEso> atriq or two
09:31:03 <shachaf> is donald trump a tanebvention?
09:35:14 <Taneb> I really hope not
09:45:22 <Luciole> Taneb: are you saying Trump is your dream president?
09:45:33 <Taneb> :C
09:46:27 <int-e> why are we discussing nightmares now?
09:57:03 <int-e> (btw, I do remember dreams occasionally but they tend to be absurd collages and extrapolations of real life events... nothign I really want to remember :P)
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10:31:11 <salpynx> dreams commonly work in dream logic, needing wings to fly is too connected, and not necessary. Most of the time in a dream when something happens, it doesn't require any supporting details, it just happens
10:33:34 <salpynx> I read somewhere you couldn't read proper words in dreams and used to try and recall examples where I had clearly observed sensible text in dreams. The memories seemed to be impressions of meaning, regardless of what the txt was
10:43:09 <salpynx> fungot, colour my dreams
10:43:40 <fizzie> fungot: Color a dinosaur.
10:43:40 <fungot> fizzie: the vigilant left valparaiso march 25th, and on the other hand the newcomer and all subsequent comers loomed large and close, as if to some eldritch rendezvous more and more
10:45:00 <salpynx> fungot: colour my dreams
10:45:00 <fungot> salpynx: was it possible that akeley had been surprised by an unexpected visit from them.
10:46:30 <salpynx> fungot, ignorer of commas
10:46:30 <fungot> salpynx: told. he saw towers and walls in nighted depths under the sea, and tried to fathom nature's pandemonium. they
10:47:39 <salpynx> sweet dreams...
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12:31:46 <esowiki> [[Cthulhu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59283&oldid=59265 * Joshop * (+619)
12:47:31 <esowiki> [[Cthulhu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59284&oldid=59283 * Joshop * (+933)
12:49:38 <esowiki> [[Cthulhu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59285&oldid=59284 * Joshop * (+88)
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12:58:37 <ais523_> @tell b_jonas I don't know what happened to intercal.org.uk; it used to be run by the CLC-INTERCAL maintainer
12:58:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:59:58 <ais523_> <b_jonas> I mean, if it's Lovecroft-themed, then trying to implementing it could drive you insane <b_jonas> so if you know it's not implementable, you may get some delay ← that's pretty much what happened with Feather
13:02:53 <ais523_> <fungot> […] 47, 48, 49, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 100, 121, 144, 169, 196, 225, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, ...out of time! ← fizzie: fungot style request: oeis
13:02:53 <fungot> ais523_: it came to him he appeared unaccountably frightened. his father's old butler who was there with other fnord. but at the same time. on earth, and there i dwelt for many aeons. green are the groves and pastures, bright and beautiful, and to
13:03:47 <ais523_> also, whatever program that was, it's impressive that it was printing in decimal
13:04:15 <ais523_> (although it's actually likely multiple programs' output merged, and probably run over a short space of time)
13:05:27 <ais523_> btw, I haven't checked this with technical tools or anything like that, but I have a suspicion that User:Areallycoolusername and User:A are the same person
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13:10:15 <ais523> @messages?
13:10:16 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
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13:12:42 <ais523_> ^style ukparl
13:12:42 <fungot> Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018)
13:12:53 <ais523_> fungot: I guess this style is topical at the moment?
13:12:53 <fungot> ais523_: in about the approach. i urge, that the state of the country, making thousands.
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13:16:52 <wob_jonas> hi ais523_
13:17:08 <ais523_> hi wob_jonas
13:17:24 <ais523_> note that I have my underscore, so I might have to disappear at any moment for work
13:17:41 <wob_jonas> @oeis 47, 48, 49, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 100, 121, 144, 169, 196, 225, 256, 512, 1024, 2048
13:17:42 <lambdabot> Sequence not found.
13:18:37 <wob_jonas> ais523: I know there's not much connection, but http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/art-2 made me think of "But Is It Art?"
13:18:45 <ais523_> can't check, I'm at work
13:19:11 <wob_jonas> ais523: also, I looked at Nellephant. apparently you put some little syntactic twist in esolangs even when they're supposed to be "easy to program"
13:19:27 <wob_jonas> in this case, it doesn't really make it harder to program, you can just preprocess the difficulty away
13:19:42 <ais523_> the preprocessor is meant to be the easy-to-program version
13:20:05 <ais523_> the version after preprocessing is meant to be obviously NL-complete, above any other consideration
13:20:13 <wob_jonas> and you probably don't care much about efficient runtime when programming such an NL thing
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13:20:53 <ais523_> well, I do somewhat, it'd be a shame if a Nellephant compiler didn't compile any program to an output program that runs in polynomial time
13:20:56 <wob_jonas> it took me tens of minutes to figure out how to copy a pointer, and how to increment one.
13:21:25 <ais523_> because NL \subseteq P is a classic result of complexity theory
13:21:41 <wob_jonas> oh, in that respect sure
13:22:41 <ais523_> actually, something that I've been realising a lot recently is that people who say "problem X is in complexity class Y" are normally failing to conclusively identify the value of n, and that leads to apparently contradictory results
13:23:28 <ais523_> there are proofs going around that regex-with-backreferences is NP-complete, and yet you can also prove that (at least for the simple model of backreferences that Precognition regexes use) regex-with-backreferences is in NL
13:23:49 <wob_jonas> oh, also
13:24:07 <ais523_> the trick is that it's NP in the size of the regex itself, but NL in the size of the string you're running the regex on
13:24:28 <wob_jonas> David Madore wrote a blog article where he complains about how confusing linear logic is. I think you know more about that topic than him.
13:25:34 <wob_jonas> He says that almost every example that people give about what linear logic is useful for doesn't actually cover all of linear logic, only a restricted part or linear logic with more axioms.
13:26:05 <ais523_> wob_jonas: I think the way most linear logicians see things is that linear logic as a whole is a framework for expressing other logics
13:26:14 <ais523_> specifically, many useful logics can be seen as a fragment of linear logic
13:26:35 <wob_jonas> it's not a very deep article though, unlike the typical maths articles he usually writes
13:26:45 <wob_jonas> only covers the surface
13:26:45 <ais523_> and you can write papers using, say, "the call by name fragment of linear logic" and other mathematicians will know what you mean; you're intentionally not using the whole thing, but it's an easy way to define the logic you actually want
13:27:14 <ais523_> sort of like BF--, "non-wrapping brainfuck without the - instruction" clearly isn't the same language, but it's a convenient way to define it
13:27:54 <ais523_> full linear logic has a lot of things that are mostly only there for symmetry/completeness and it would be rare for a language to need every part of it at once
13:28:11 <wob_jonas> ah yes, that crazy language, of which I only learned a few months ago that it was TC
13:28:37 <ais523_> *clearly isn't the same language as brainfuck
13:29:13 <ais523_> fwiw, I was idly wondering recently what the worst possible BF derivative was, and I decided that it was probably the language you get when you delete one of the brackets without deleting the other one
13:29:35 <ais523_> (then I started wondering if BF without ] was TC, if you assume that [ is matched by the end of the program; sadly, it isn't, and it isn't even usable for programming)
13:30:18 <wob_jonas> I see
13:30:33 <ais523_> that said, the only reason it isn't TC is that you can't break out of the innermost loop, or avoid entering it, without the program just ending; if you assume that every [ is matched by ]> or something then it almost certainly is TC
13:31:15 <ais523_> (actually, make that "certainly" not just "almost certainly", you can trivially modify oerjan's-and-my 2-bracket-BF into that form)
13:31:31 <wob_jonas> yeah, the 2-bracket thing shows that
13:33:10 <wob_jonas> and as for blindfolded arithmetic, I'm remiss there, I'll need to think more and edit the wiki article and then read your solution
13:33:28 <wob_jonas> for two variables that is, after deciding whether I can prove three variables
13:33:52 <Luciole> fungot: point of order, mr. fungot
13:33:52 <fungot> Luciole: are the government as to the possibility, and one of the first things that the indian government,
13:35:39 <ais523_> the two-variable version was a pain, it was pretty much entirely based on trying to figure out what operations were possible
13:36:48 <wob_jonas> people in literature should get their simulees consistent. apparently they both say that someone is "free as a bird", and that someone is "captured like a bird [in a cage]". what's the point of the bird in those simulees then, if it goes both ways?
13:38:14 <ais523_> I'd expect the word for "something that is the object of a simile" to be "similee", but then I'm not sure that there even is such a word
13:38:17 <ais523_> @wn similee
13:38:18 <lambdabot> No match for "similee".
13:38:22 <ais523_> @wn simulee
13:38:23 <lambdabot> No match for "simulee".
13:38:56 <wob_jonas> as a bonus, I was wondering if blindfolded arithmetic without multiplication is TC. it breaks the usual constructions (even though _most_ of the multiplications are just for convenience or speed or freeing up variables), so I can't prove it, but I think it's probably still TC given enough variables.
13:39:04 <ais523_> but then, hmm, maybe that's the subject, because the similor should be the person making the comparison…
13:39:06 <wob_jonas> oh right, simile
13:39:46 <ais523_> all the constructions I've used so far fundamentally rely on multiplication, but when you have a lot of variables, there's a lot of leeway in the construction
13:39:56 <ais523_> you may be able to get around it using repeated addition plus division
13:40:00 <wob_jonas> has two "i" because "similar" does
13:40:37 <wob_jonas> "lot of" hehe
13:40:53 <ais523_> that said, I'm not surprised I don't know the words for the various things involved in a simile, many people don't know them for even basic arithmetic operations because they're not actually useful
13:41:10 <ais523_> many people know dividend, divisor, quotient, remainder
13:41:17 <ais523_> because divisions have a lot of parts to keep track of
13:41:20 <ais523_> @wn augend
13:41:21 <lambdabot> *** "augend" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
13:41:21 <lambdabot> augend
13:41:21 <lambdabot> n 1: a number to which another number (the addend) is added
13:41:40 <ais523_> but for operations like addition, there are words for the various parts of the addition, but only "sum" is regularly used
13:41:53 <ais523_> "addend" and "augend" are used only very rarely
13:41:55 <ais523_> @wn minuend
13:41:55 <fizzie> @wn subtrahend
13:41:56 <lambdabot> *** "minuend" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
13:41:56 <lambdabot> minuend
13:41:56 <lambdabot> n 1: the number from which the subtrahend is subtracted
13:41:57 <lambdabot> *** "subtrahend" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
13:41:57 <lambdabot> subtrahend
13:41:57 <wob_jonas> and "term"
13:41:58 <lambdabot> n 1: the number to be subtracted from the minuend
13:42:03 * ais523_ high-fives fizzie
13:42:06 <wob_jonas> "term" for addition and subtraction
13:42:11 <fizzie> Good timing.
13:42:14 <ais523_> really, the timing there was perfect
13:42:19 <wob_jonas> there's also "accumulator"
13:42:25 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59286&oldid=59280 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+682)
13:42:41 <ais523_> "accumulator" is useful for describing a programming and/or processor-implementation technique
13:42:47 <wob_jonas> yeah
13:42:59 <ais523_> and it is not necessarily limited to additions, it depends on the processor
13:43:09 <wob_jonas> exactly
13:44:14 <wob_jonas> so we have "term", and for multiplications, "product", and there's probably English terms for the two operands of a non-commutative multiplication separately
13:44:24 <wob_jonas> but yeah, I don't think I ever heard of "augend"
13:44:30 <ais523_> multiplier, multiplicand
13:44:39 <ais523_> probably the second-best known after the terms for a division
13:45:06 <wob_jonas> the results are "sum" and "difference" and "product" of course
13:45:15 <ais523_> or, well, "multiplicand" is used very rarely, but "multiplier" is very common
13:45:22 <wob_jonas> ah sorry, I meant "factor" is the generic for multipliaction operands
13:45:26 <wob_jonas> "product" is the result obviously]
13:45:38 <ais523_> "factor" is weird, it's mostly used in the sense of something that divides into a number exactly
13:45:58 <ais523_> after programming in Brachylog, I've got used to "unmultiplication" as its own primitive operation
13:46:22 <ais523_> it is similar to division but it's only defined where the result is an integer, otherwise it retroactively unasks the question
13:46:36 <wob_jonas> and there were at least three words for exponentiation too, probably more than three
13:46:36 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59287&oldid=59286 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+24)
13:47:13 <wob_jonas> "exponent" for the second argument of exponentiation I think
13:47:22 <ais523_> "base"/"exponent" is probably the most commonly used by mathematicians, but I agree that there are plenty of others (many of which are hoplessly misleading)
13:47:28 <wob_jonas> yeah
13:47:52 <ais523_> I blame mnemonics that people use for the order of operations
13:48:32 <ais523_> "BIDMAS" and "BODMAS" are common; the latter is especially weird as people seem unclear on what the O stands for (I've seen people claim it stands for "of"!)
13:48:35 <wob_jonas> there are some crazy generic terms like "characteristic", and it gets worse at "modulus" of course
13:48:52 <ais523_> "PEMDAS" seems to be correct as mnemonics go, I suspect it's a more modern version
13:49:14 <ais523_> (although any of these confuse people who program in float arithmetic as they don't handle the coassociativity of muliplication/division and of addition/subtraction)
13:49:33 <ais523_> wob_jonas: "modulus" is pretty clear when you're talking about modular arithmetic
13:49:37 <wob_jonas> right, they're the order of operations in some very rare programming languages I think
13:49:50 <ais523_> the only potential issue is when what you actually want to talk about is the operation called % in C
13:49:54 <wob_jonas> ais523: "modulus" is confusing because it means two things that are apparently unrelated
13:50:16 <wob_jonas> the other meaning is the absolute value or magnitude of a complex number or things like that
13:50:34 <ais523_> hmm, I vaguely remember that term, but I don't think it's commonly used
13:50:53 <wob_jonas> yes, people usually have the sense to use other ambiguous terms, like "magnitude" or "norm"
13:51:03 <wob_jonas> or "length" or "sumsq" or "abs" ...
13:51:12 <wob_jonas> "norm" is the worst by the way
13:51:29 <wob_jonas> "modulus" is just ambiguous, "norm" is ambiguous between two very close meanings
13:51:39 <ais523_> because "norm" should be at right angles to the original?
13:51:39 <wob_jonas> mind you, "sign" vs "sine" is also bad
13:52:08 <wob_jonas> no, that's a "normal"
13:52:21 <wob_jonas> that one is fine
13:53:08 <ais523_> it took me embarrassingly long to realise that "normal" in the phrase "normal reaction" (from physics/mechanics) means "at right angles", rather than just "it's normal for things to collide rather than phase through each other"
13:54:02 <wob_jonas> that's where it comes from? I just sort of accepted that "normal" primarily means in the direction of a gradient, and being orthogonal to a surface or even to a curve is just a secondary meaning from that
13:54:15 <wob_jonas> I didn't care what it has to do with non-maths meanings of "normal"
13:55:15 <wob_jonas> I don't think it really means "at right angles", because if you purely want that, you say "orthogonal" instead
13:55:19 <ais523_> right, the normal reaction is at right angles to the plane tangent to the contact point at both objects
13:55:36 <ais523_> (you assume they have a common tangent plane, otherwise they'd roll rather than slide)
13:55:39 <ais523_> anyway, meeting time
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13:55:43 <wob_jonas> bye
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14:31:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Swampie27782 * New user account
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17:26:48 <b_jonas> I wonder what is the lowest number of solo singers you can have for an opera buffo, but this question may be too ill-defined.
17:27:49 <b_jonas> s/buffo/buffa/
17:30:27 <b_jonas> Five solo singers is definitely possible, reached by many operas.
17:30:38 <b_jonas> Four should be possible I think.
17:35:18 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_(opera) by Donizetti apparently has three
17:37:24 <b_jonas> Just two solo singers probably requires some creative rules abuse.
17:39:18 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betly also has three apparently
17:40:25 <imode> opera buffalo.
17:41:46 <b_jonas> no
17:47:41 <b_jonas> hmm wait
17:48:51 <b_jonas> apparently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_Pigmalione is a very short opera (not an opera buffa, but I care about any opera in the wide sense) with two solo singers
17:50:27 <b_jonas> only one solo singer should be very hard even with rule abuse, but who knows
17:51:52 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Villi by Puccini has three solo singers
17:56:30 <b_jonas> let me check my dictionary for what "remiss" actually means, since I just used it in a conversation here a few hours ago
17:57:35 <b_jonas> ok, not exact, but it works
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18:31:47 <b_jonas> oh look, he'll leave the money to himself
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19:10:25 <esowiki> [[Cthulhu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59288&oldid=59285 * Joshop * (+23)
19:13:05 <esowiki> [[Cthulhu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59289&oldid=59288 * Joshop * (+21)
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19:37:21 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59290&oldid=59287 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+424)
19:42:13 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59291&oldid=59033 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+1)
19:42:25 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59292&oldid=59291 * KrystosTheOverlord * (-1)
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20:20:10 <b_jonas> Apparently AGDQ 2019 has an "orb" meme
20:20:21 <b_jonas> where they shout "orb" for achievements in every game, not only SMW
20:20:53 <b_jonas> `? orb
20:20:54 <HackEso> orb? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:29:40 <Phantom_Hoover> didn't it snowball
20:30:03 <Phantom_Hoover> like there was one game where they started chanting 'orb' and then in subsequent games when anything vaguely round was involved they'd chant 'orb'
20:43:53 <b_jonas> probably
20:44:30 <b_jonas> I'm watching the Super Mario Odyssey run, which is not any%, but a much longer category with 350 moons,
20:44:48 <b_jonas> although admittedly there are some moons in that one too that the crowd skip
20:45:02 <b_jonas> they can't keep it up for all 350, occasionally their minds wander off
20:49:40 <b_jonas> ah no, only 300 moons apparently
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21:05:38 <shachaf> orin: fix your google maps api key hth
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22:01:47 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59293&oldid=59290 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+55)
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