< 1549843202 956534 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in < 1549843240 204812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wlcmr int-e < 1549843241 447009 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1549843262 357439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg wlcmr < 1549843263 834381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr -d aeoiu/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 5183:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/.$/g&/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm < 1549843287 830492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wlcm FireFly < 1549843289 3021 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FrFly: Wlcm t th ntrntnl hb fr strc prgrmmng lngg dsgn nd dplymnt! Fr mr nfrmtn, chck t r wk: . (Fr th thr knd f strc, try #strc n EFnt r DALnt.) < 1549843297 262328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :apologint-e < 1549843341 257106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up checking whether it's colorful... it wasn't. < 1549843352 735252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd made it. < 1549843363 313114 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember creating that < 1549843386 111567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's only because of the confusing thing in the fshg browser where it shows the last commit message at the top, instead of the message of the last commit that affected the file you clicked on. < 1549843410 890497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, -ir ?! < 1549843421 40040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/wlcmr < 1549843422 476198 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549843434 922189 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it be -ir? < 1549843451 723617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you make a backup rather than just use -i ? < 1549843470 674481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get it. < 1549843473 561179 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r is how GNU sed spells -E < 1549843477 858689 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "use ERE" < 1549843480 695903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: then use -ri < 1549843482 839892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -ir is not sed -i -r hth < 1549843484 967048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/preprocess-mtg # one less now < 1549843486 505683 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed 'bin/preprocess-mtg' < 1549843486 587418 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1549843501 520444 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosp < 1549843510 722161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -ir' < 1549843511 559252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/7z bin/7za # I added these, but they never worked < 1549843517 793220 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr -d aeoiu/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 5183:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/.$/g&/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm < 1549843518 646338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed 'bin/7z' \ removed 'bin/7za' < 1549843530 519217 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well I didn't even remember creating that to begin with < 1549843539 471299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: nowadays you'd just use sled hth < 1549843552 968076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549843570 810716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It's a plausible mistake. It took me a moment to realize why the file was there at all :) < 1549843576 431905 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1549843674 632231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created bin/8-ball but then other people modified it in ways I don't approve with, and I would have used the original but now I can't trust it < 1549843699 694789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently created wrlist, just in case the "we are robots" webcomic resurrects < 1549843712 682442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the rest, what I can do is use them so there aren't so many unused ones < 1549843727 47788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the lists that are for events that haven't happened of course, I won't use them < 1549843730 423073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? keenlist < 1549843731 706186 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast < 1549843745 543145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{desc}\0{file_adds}\n" bin/* | perl -ne '/^<[^>]*jonas.*\0(.+)/ and print "$1\n";' | sport < 1549843749 782092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this a list < 1549843766 420475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because if it happens, I'd like to notice, so it pings me < 1549843769 432876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:bin/bobadventureslist \ bin/starwars \ bin/scheme \ bin/calesyta2016list \ bin/welkom \ bin/velkomin \ bin/velkommen \ bin/välkommen \ bin/hello \ bin/random-card \ bin/card-by-name \ bin/recipe \ bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/keenlist wisdom/keenlist \ bin/ioccclist \ bin/bardsworthlist \ bin/ehlist \ bin/revert \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/aglist \ bin/listlist \ bin/wrlist \ bin/dateu \ bin/sqli \ bin/datei \ bin/culprits-c \ bin/Welcome \ bin/velcome \ bin/cto < 1549843771 204199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as with olist < 1549843771 797958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1549843772 580001 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:f \ bin/ftoc \ bin/toroman \ bin/fromroman \ bin/8-ball \ bin/8ball < 1549843773 859887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/keenlist < 1549843774 483485 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ b_jonas < 1549843778 799178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`starwars 10 < 1549843779 527295 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supreme Leader Snoke \ R2-D2 \ Moff Jerjerrod \ Galen Erso \ Qui-Gon Jinn \ Padmé Amidala \ Cassian Andor \ Ric Olié \ Doctor Cornelius Evazan \ C-3PO < 1549843781 710897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're the only one on the list. < 1549843791 192728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so far yes, but anyone can echo >> it < 1549843803 35416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't just add other people < 1549843818 419879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you create a list, do you add anyone but yourself? < 1549843845 346310 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the starwars should perhaps be updated to add characters from Solo < 1549843867 855767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are those already in there? < 1549843903 363789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but the main way people learn about lists is from seeing them being listed. < 1549843918 397811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not < 1549843925 796099 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scheme < 1549843926 599338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plots That Span Centuries < 1549843928 474918 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calesyta2016list never happened < 1549843929 155663 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calesyta2016list never happened: b_jonas < 1549843934 279867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1549843967 546036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastwisdoms < 1549843969 66003 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/2019-02-08/ macron // flabberghast // chicken // /2019-02-07/ ladder // quantum leap // /2019-02-04/ password // /2019-02-02/ asap // tio // /2019-01-30/ prefixes // /2019-01-29/ shannon // /2019-01-26/ fnord // /2019-01-01/ this ftp site // /2018-12-29/ standard // /2018-12-22/ ground water // /2018-12-11/ italian // grace period // tanebvention // /2018-12-09/ oren // /2018-12-07/ mꙮnqy // /2018-12-06/ oerjan // /2018-12-01/ `hello // tense formati < 1549843991 882076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits-c wisdom/password < 1549843993 600381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 29 oerjän 14 int-̈e 5 shachäf 1 mroman̈_ 1 mromän 1 gameman̈j 1 boil̈y 1 b_jonäs < 1549844015 953091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... what's bin/revert ? < 1549844036 640608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sqli SELECT 2+4 < 1549844037 361320 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1549844038 559260 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sqli SELECT 2/0 < 1549844039 165149 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549844060 534576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` git log < 1549844061 353316 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal: Not a git repository (or any parent up to mount point /hackenv) \ Stopping at filesystem boundary (GIT_DISCOVERY_ACROSS_FILESYSTEM not set). < 1549844105 455752 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you made it though < 1549844114 755894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, that's the problem < 1549844123 546197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I listed the entries in bin that I made and that still exist < 1549844126 133597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :above < 1549844145 810435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego wasn't using git either, right? < 1549844184 724556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : let's create a fake bin/revert ! < 1549844195 364655 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1549844197 206773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego was using hg and now hackeso is using hs < 1549844203 199240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm bin/revert < 1549844204 854577 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549844207 326829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was discussion about how `revert is a builtin and not a real command. < 1549844213 838753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549844220 334970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could have created a real one < 1549844223 644641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/run < 1549844224 463742 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo run run run < 1549844224 997869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1549844227 366354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1549844253 426550 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not an entirely real one < 1549844255 263822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whether it would be possible to make an actual non-builtin version of `revert, which sounds like it should be more or less possible. < 1549844277 110242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/undo < 1549844277 928674 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -p1 -R < 1549844281 179037 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: why are you using git commands, HackEgo is mercury / oerjan: it's a fake command, so it doesn't matter, right? / OKAY < 1549844288 487157 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : and I don't know mercurial < 1549844297 160219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549844297 458661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`before < 1549844299 595262 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/revert//#!/bin/sh \ exec git checkout HEAD^ . < 1549844300 440922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might have been me < 1549844311 988567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? `before is useful! < 1549844535 370343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`after < 1549844535 935284 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: after: not found < 1549844539 165706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`now < 1549844540 134506 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/revert//cat: bin/revert: No such file or directory < 1549844549 637769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1549844551 265269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't do much for deletions. < 1549844576 281954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1549844577 66149 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approach of the Second Sun \ 6W \ Sorcery \ If Approach of the Second Sun was cast from your hand and you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game, you win the game. Otherwise, put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life. \ AKH-R < 1549844577 805734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card flying < 1549844578 619771 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivory Gargoyle \ 4W \ Creature -- Gargoyle \ 2/2 \ Flying \ When Ivory Gargoyle dies, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step and you skip your next draw step. \ {4}{W}: Exile Ivory Gargoyle. \ AI-R, ME2-R < 1549844587 29060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card eldrazi < 1549844587 779901 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emrakul, the Promised End \ 13 \ Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi \ 13/13 \ This spell costs {1} less to cast for each card type among cards in your graveyard. \ When you cast this spell, you gain control of target opponent during that player's next turn. After that turn, that player takes an extra turn. \ Flying, trample, protection from instants \ EMN-M < 1549844605 586576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pft. no annihilator? < 1549844621 377035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card joker < 1549844622 105987 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No card found. < 1549844628 638525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card spade < 1549844629 387008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No card found. < 1549844631 964061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card annihilator < 1549844633 47753 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hand of Emrakul \ 9 \ Creature -- Eldrazi \ 7/7 \ You may sacrifice four Eldrazi Spawn rather than pay this spell's mana cost. \ Annihilator 1 (Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices a permanent.) \ ROE-C < 1549844636 630076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card club < 1549844637 400733 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prakhata Club Security \ 3B \ Creature -- Aetherborn Warrior \ 3/4 \ KLD-C < 1549844646 999080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`owrjan < 1549844648 140062 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1549844670 829928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swrjan s/evil/eldrazi/ < 1549844670 984125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`stat bin/slwrjan < 1549844672 795932 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stat: cannot stat 'bin/slwrjan': No such file or directory < 1549844673 335473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? that's a command? < 1549844673 738103 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1549844685 279137 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549844707 494890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culrpits-c wisdom/oerjan < 1549844708 166580 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culrpits-c: not found < 1549844714 794687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits-c wisdom/oerjan < 1549844716 376454 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 122 shachäf 53 oerjän 11 boil̈y 5 noloveinwaikik̈i 2 Jafët 2 int-̈e 1 nitïa 1 hppavilion[1̈] < 1549844720 886961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1549844722 633554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1549844737 994030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia! < 1549844740 213949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia < 1549844741 295765 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. < 1549844752 441001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1549844753 515200 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1549844757 647215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1549844758 766387 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. < 1549844772 252285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all true < 1549844784 493147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get the bell peppers thing. < 1549844796 969228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like bell peppers. < 1549844799 881693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's not to get? < 1549844808 769735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the other bits are much harder to get, really. < 1549844822 374844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: noloveinwaikiki was one of hagb4rd's nicks, as i recall < 1549844846 499104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I still don't get some of the wisdom entry about me < 1549844854 528134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? b_jonas < 1549844855 423447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've never tried to decipher the first sentence, and I know all about the last one ;-) < 1549844855 582159 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. < 1549844896 759175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's going on with the last one? < 1549844964 546509 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I added that after being subjected to the shachafian inquisition one day. I have to admit that I did forget the topic of that discussion. < 1549844974 15998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 's okay i only get the first three words and the second last. < 1549844987 380859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1549844994 46437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought oerjan added that, though. < 1549844995 306277 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i thought i added it... < 1549844997 96997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg shachaf < 1549844998 736974 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9872:2016-12-05 slwd shachaf//s/^/Queen / \ 9869:2016-12-05 learn_append shachaf He doesn\'t know when to stop asking questions. \ 9116:2016-09-29 slwd shachaf//s# T.*## \ 8814:2016-07-14 slwd shachaf//s#^shachaf#Shachaf of the Dawn# \ 8553:2016-06-21 ` hg cat -r 8343 wisdom/shachaf > wisdom/shachaf \ 8345:2016-06-05 learn shachaf is a wise little gentleman. \ 8344:2016-06-05 le < 1549845005 757177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549845011 633342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I at least suggest it? > 1549845020 661364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vague14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59799&oldid=59780 5* 03Cortex 5* (+142) 10 < 1549845025 61703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I asked oerjan too many questions. < 1549845047 418275 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did I just quote it on one occasion. < 1549845064 757846 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory is what it used to be. All unreliable and forgetful :) > 1549845067 844001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vague14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59800&oldid=59799 5* 03Cortex 5* (-27) 10 < 1549845086 552656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory is like a functor. < 1549845090 747640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1549845092 616721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMI < 1549845126 178297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe it's one of those berenstoin things < 1549845176 684866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :faithful, forgetful, adjoint... < 1549845231 974606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks hackeso < 1549845232 693235 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, hackeso. Thackeso. < 1549845233 579385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory can be especially forgetful after adjoint < 1549845246 802249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats shachaf -----###
< 1549845292 569414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google berenstoin < 1549845293 903626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://me.me/i/no-normies-allowed-stan-jan-berenstoin-%3Cp%3Ememe-insiders-make-stance-22266978 < 1549845334 351667 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I have regrets. < 1549845484 969910 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf even is that. < 1549845528 288695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not clicking that link. < 1549845540 414122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many people incorrectly remember the name of the series as the "Berenstein Bears". This confusion has generated multiple theories to explain the memories, including an unannounced name change, time travel, or parallel universes and has been described as an instance of the Mandela effect." < 1549845559 913527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that what you're alluding to? < 1549845653 854666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to do static linking on Linux and also use OpenGL? < 1549845715 787081 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1549845737 585628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? this < 1549845738 691008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. < 1549845805 362490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e may or may not be fan < 1549845843 398982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote indifference < 1549845844 718558 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1320) int-e does not like this [...] shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P Higher than your usual? who cares? < 1549845853 52023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can statically link to whatever libraries you want but I don't think you can statically link to a single OpenGL library.. < 1549845916 299205 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably not a reasonable way, because part of the graphics driver is a shared library < 1549845941 674181 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might be able to statically link the software only Mesa renderer < 1549845981 270726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shared library that links against libc which means I have to use libc and everything too, presumably. < 1549846062 478308 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549846176 187058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat -r 8821 wisdom/tg < 1549846176 962268 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: invalid option -- 'r' \ Try 'cat --help' for more information. < 1549846180 67227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg cat -r 8821 wisdom/tg < 1549846181 143023 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp. < 1549846294 780923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @ < 1549846295 849191 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. < 1549846357 387423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549846374 643750 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a blast from the past. < 1549846563 172379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i oblast from the past < 1549846744 841623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1549847078 708200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549847162 787819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( And your final question for the $1,000,000 prize is: What's the Russian word for "province"? Oh, blast! ) < 1549847552 501257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it confusing if I use the number of bytes instead of the number of bits for my numeric types? < 1549847564 262545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So U1/U2/U4/U8 instead of U8/U16/U32/U64 < 1549847611 982431 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because how many bits to a byte? < 1549847635 487536 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is conventional, but there are other byte sizes. < 1549847651 539286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do I care about architectures where bytes aren't octets? < 1549847747 882046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-legmbsazkncousky QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549848053 78490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's your call. < 1549848066 161663 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have no way to specify a 4-bit type or a 2-bit type. < 1549848072 489447 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a 7-bit type or something. < 1549848120 206917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But on the other hand "8" is the same length as "1". < 1549848141 445924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Maybe I should stick to bits because everyone else does. < 1549848154 216081 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1549848184 965382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I tried writing code with this style and I kept getting confused and using U8 instead of U1. < 1549848340 306025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi j4cbo < 1549848340 994015 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi j4cbo. Ho. < 1549848352 473782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think maybe that should be adjusted. < 1549848395 320206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use 8/16/32/64, you can use 1 for a boolean type. That's what LLVM does. < 1549848416 613024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also true. < 1549848519 778553 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know of any non-8-bit-byte architectures that are relevant these days, but bits still seem more fundamental < 1549848537 452030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also true. < 1549848564 418966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is there any meaning to fractional qubits twh < 1549848627 650737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hi < 1549848628 237171 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Hi $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/H/; } else { s/^./H/; } print "$_."; < 1549848651 586210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI's still making TMS320C55x chips for low-power applications, and their C compiler for those has a CHAR_BIT == 16 setup. < 1549848668 685875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/hi//s/OUY/OUY0134/g < 1549848670 298710 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/hi//#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Hi $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY0134]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY0134]*/H/; } else { s/^./H/; } print "$_."; < 1549848671 960894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi j4cbo < 1549848672 578361 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi j4cbo. H4cbo. < 1549848675 940077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1549848716 424594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAVERN uses 16-bit memory cells (although if TAVERN32 or TAVERN64 is made, it might use 8-bit cells instead). < 1549848735 669127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of memory cell does TAVERN8 use < 1549848736 858484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sled bin/thanks//s/OUY/OUY0134/g # for consistency < 1549848738 663989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/thanks//#!/usr/bin/perl -CSDA \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY0134]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY0134]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; < 1549848746 821851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks j4cbo < 1549848747 462146 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, j4cbo. Th4cbo. < 1549848748 440976 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There is no TAVERN8 < 1549848759 864073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should bug someone else. < 1549848782 12829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks f1zz13 < 1549848782 412137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no one else uses digits that way. < 1549848782 700636 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, f1zz13. Th1zz13. < 1549848797 724275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you can run this on a name that isn't a nick present in the channel. I forgot. < 1549848856 448319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rgrep -l aeiou bin < 1549848857 263090 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/h! \ bin/?h \ bin/thanks \ bin/hyphenate.fi \ bin/hi \ bin/blessyou \ bin/unh \ bin/?hh \ bin/shmify \ bin/h < 1549848858 814044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I was thinking of exporting $NICK in the HackEso environment as the person who requested the thing to be done. < 1549848863 606524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/blessyou < 1549848864 207123 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Bless you, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Bl/; } else { s/^./B/; } print "$_."; < 1549848876 237924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sled bin/blessyou//s/OUY/OUY0134/g < 1549848879 694329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/blessyou//s/OUY/OUY0134/g < 1549848881 323557 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/blessyou//#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Bless you, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY0134]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY0134]*/Bl/; } else { s/^./B/; } print "$_."; < 1549848886 163846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`blessyou f1zz13 < 1549848886 820841 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bless you, f1zz13. Bl1zz13. < 1549848903 740031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`h f1zz13 < 1549848904 541939 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f1zz13 < 1549848911 866491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. That might be going too far. < 1549848942 854940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wehlcohme fizzie < 1549848944 143331 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fihzzie: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: . (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.) < 1549849266 686807 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there probably is in quantum information theory, which I know nothing about < 1549849310 196877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' < 1549849313 124932 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10398:2017-03-11 ` sed -ie "s,\\\\n,\\n," bin/lowercase2 \ 6500:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6484:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))).encode(locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))/\' bin/loudly \ 5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr -d ae < 1549849315 549493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`blessyou keegan < 1549849316 174483 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bless you, keegan. Bleegan. < 1549849342 539772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/dog < 1549849343 158675 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/dog: No such file or directory < 1549849349 580809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised `dog doesn't exist. < 1549849358 498709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i unless cat is lying to us < 1549849412 988668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/lowercase2e < 1549849413 717371 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/lowercase2e < 1549849418 285946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1549849431 907297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/lowercase2e < 1549849433 528228 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10398:2017-03-11 ` sed -ie "s,\\\\n,\\n," bin/lowercase2 < 1549849440 968946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/lowercase2e < 1549849444 822405 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549849468 766582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/loudlye < 1549849470 289570 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10294:2017-02-16 rm bin/loudlye \ 6500:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6491:2016-01-03 revert 6483 \ 6489:2016-01-03 revert 6486 \ 6488:2016-01-03 revert 6483 \ 6486:2016-01-03 revert \ 6485:2016-01-03 revert \ 6484:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/ < 1549849483 820727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 doag | grep 'sed -i [^ ]' < 1549849487 6882 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/169:e\'s font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font|" wisdom/font \ 11200:2017-09-26 ` sed -i \'$s=sha[c]haf=shach\x0faf=\' quotes > /dev/null \ 11198:2017-09-26 ` sed -i \'$s=shachaf=sha\x0fchaf=\' quotes \ 11150:2017-08-08 ` sed -i -e "s/head.*/grep \'^U+\'/" bin/singlecode \ 11149:2017-08-08 ` sed -i -e \'1i\\#!/bin/bash\' bin/singlecode \ 11148:2017-08-08 ` sed -i -e \'s/multicode/singl < 1549849494 192491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1549849496 800780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' < 1549849500 315661 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/6:d aeoiu/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 5183:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/.$/g&/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 2257:2013-02-26 sed -i... -e \'s/grep/timeout 25 grep/\' bin/pastelog \ 2196:2013-02-21 sed -ie "s/ shachaf//" bin/list \ 2157:2013-02-17 sed -ie "s/ shachaf//" bin/list \ 1891:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,UTF-32,UTF-16LE,\' bin/\\? \ 1890:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,UTF-16,UTF-32,\' bin/\\? \ 18 < 1549849560 747700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find any others with for f in bin/*e; do if [ -e "${f%e}" ]; then echo $f; fi; done if that was even right. < 1549849640 796167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it should've been.) < 1549849692 209668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/pasteloge < 1549849693 741851 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549849699 96928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of sed -ie in the lgs, I wonder why none of those files were created. < 1549849702 491169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1549849706 806433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/pastelog... < 1549849708 434360 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2260:2013-02-26 rm bin/pastelog... \ 2257:2013-02-26 sed -i... -e \'s/grep/timeout 25 grep/\' bin/pastelog < 1549849767 349525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/?e < 1549849769 108590 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1906:2013-01-30 hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 \ 1890:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,UTF-16,UTF-32,\' bin/\\? \ 1889:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s, | cat$,;,\' bin/\\? \ 1888:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,urandom,urandom | cat,\' bin/\\? \ 1887:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'2 s,$, | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//"),\' bin/\\? \ 1886:2013-01-27 revert \ 1885:2013-01-27 revert \ 1884:2013-01-27 revert \ 1883:2013 < 1549849789 7744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/?e < 1549849789 749165 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: 'bin/?e': No such file or directory < 1549849862 874891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`3 doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' < 1549849870 922211 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/18:10398:2017-03-11 ` sed -ie "s,\\\\n,\\n," bin/lowercase2 \ 6500:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6484:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))).encode(locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))/\' bin/loudly \ 5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr < 1549849872 765613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/3 < 1549849873 422224 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval "$(shuf -n 1 <<'END' \ \` "$@" |& sport 3 \ cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 3 "$cmd" \ END \ )" < 1549849881 228584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan got lucky today < 1549849906 633056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1549849924 790415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits ../bin/3 < 1549849926 602003 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän < 1549849935 75069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/n < 1549849935 667563 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line /hackenv/tmp/spline < 1549850017 874183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/2 < 1549850018 664093 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\` "$@" |& sport 2 < 1549850055 734792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/^ < 1549850056 343531 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: 'bin/^': No such file or directory < 1549850067 274899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh i thought that existed < 1549850078 539779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/`^ < 1549850079 243628 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport < 1549850191 526435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 3 < 1549850194 649780 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/6:89:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s, | cat$,;,\' bin/\\? \ 1888:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,urandom,urandom | cat,\' bin/\\? \ 1887:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'2 s,$, | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//"),\' bin/\\? \ 1882:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s, | tr.*,,\' bin/\\? \ 1881:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,tr -d .*,iconv -f UTF-16 -t UTF-8 -c /dev/urandom | tr -d "\\\\r",\' bin/\\? \ 1878:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,-c;,-c | head -c 1000;, < 1549850284 648158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 4 < 1549850288 327490 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4/6:\' bin/\\? \ 1877:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,-f UTF-8,-f UTF-16,\' bin/\\? \ 1876:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,/dev/urandom,/dev/urandom | iconv -f UTF-8 -t UTF-8 -c,\' bin/\\? \ 1875:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,\\[:print:\\],[:print:]\\\\r,\' bin/\\? \ 1874:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,cat /dev/urandom,tr -d "[:print:]" sed -ie \'3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\\&" "$id" "<" $(wc < 1549850312 477677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 5 < 1549850315 836076 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5/6:-l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l sed -ie \'s/ monqy//\' bin/list \ 1865:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s/$/ monqy/\' bin/list \ 1850:2013-01-26 sed -ie \'s/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./\' wisdom/narutoverse \ 1592:2013-01-22 sed -is \'s/grep/grep -P -i/\' bin/seen \ 1250:2013-01-04 sed -ie \'s#-ne .print uc($_).#-pe \'\\\'\'$_ = uc\'\\\'\'#\' b < 1549850342 446584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg delquote < 1549850343 999511 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1906:2013-01-30 hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 \ 1873:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\\&" "$id" "<" $(wc -l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l run sed -ie 's/echo "\*poof\*/printf "*poof*%s" "/' bin/delquote \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. < 1549850378 603260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg narutoversee < 1549850380 190973 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4210:2013-12-19 rm wisdom/narutoversee \ 1850:2013-01-26 sed -ie \'s/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./\' wisdom/narutoverse < 1549850401 258292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg seens < 1549850406 227984 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1549850406 951040 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1592:2013-01-22 sed -is \'s/grep/grep -P -i/\' bin/seen < 1549850431 430951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep ' rm.*e$' < 1549850434 447698 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11728:2019-02-11 rm bin/lowercase2e \ 10360:2017-03-07 rm lele lele \ 10295:2017-02-16 rm bin/disce \ 10294:2017-02-16 rm bin/loudlye \ 9083:2016-09-26 rm candide \ 8625:2016-06-27 rm quine \ 8540:2016-06-20 rm bin/e \ 8019:2016-05-11 rm wisdom/raspberrie \ 6001:2015-09-16 rm wisdom/toe \ 5813:2015-07-09 rm wisdom/he \ 5753:2015-06-25 rm < 1549850447 429493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/seens < 1549850449 56405 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549850504 420791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 6 < 1549850507 690046 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6/6:in/WELCOME \ 1212:2012-12-28 sed -ie \'889 s/hard drive/hard drive /\' quotes \ 783:2012-10-06 run sed -ie 's/echo/echo -e/' bin/runc \ 752:2012-10-04 run sed -ie 's/echo "\*poof\*/printf "*poof*%s" "/' bin/delquote \ 744:2012-10-04 run cp bin/addquote bin/addquote_; sed -ie 's/echo/printf "%d) %s"/;s/") / "/' bin/addquote; cat bin/addquote < 1549850535 213237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg WELCOMEe < 1549850536 660365 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1282:2013-01-07 rm bin/WELCOMEe \ 1250:2013-01-04 sed -ie \'s#-ne .print uc($_).#-pe \'\\\'\'$_ = uc\'\\\'\'#\' bin/WELCOME < 1549850557 229498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that quite a lot. < 1549850598 645642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately we invented sled < 1549850608 706511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately sled still doesn't have a preview option. :-( ) < 1549850661 189684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dobg runce; dobg delquotee; dobg addquotee < 1549850664 543962 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2111:2013-02-13 rm bin/runce \ 783:2012-10-06 run sed -ie 's/echo/echo -e/' bin/runc \ 1906:2013-01-30 hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 \ 1873:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\\&" "$id" "<" $(wc -l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l rm bin/delquotee \ 752:2012-10-04 run sed -ie 's/echo "\*poof\*/printf "*poof < 1549850713 811845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg addquotee < 1549850715 339497 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :993:2012-12-09 rm bin/addquotee \ 744:2012-10-04 run cp bin/addquote bin/addquote_; sed -ie 's/echo/printf "%d) %s"/;s/") / "/' bin/addquote; cat bin/addquote < 1549850737 58539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 7 < 1549850740 378455 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7/6: < 1549850743 854055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549850772 401983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess we got most of the *e ones before < 1549852525 393515 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549852767 280776 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549852851 832385 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549853613 249680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any operetta house near Mornington Crescent? In the XYZABCDE.ZZT game there is, but I don't know if actually there is or if only it is the computer game. < 1549855809 382626 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549856058 394600 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549857600 743538 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1549857649 736665 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549857688 379950 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1549859031 962715 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549859294 943431 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549860400 73436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea of Magic: the Gathering is an effect that will double all counters on all objects and players (once). < 1549860639 545925 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any interesting esolang applications of M:tG? I mean, I know it's TC < 1549860644 513629 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what else can be said / done with it < 1549860742 259632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be interested in an esolang suitable for describing cards in a MtG-style game < 1549860759 291735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not obvious at all how to do it well, since the game can be self-modifying in all sorts of subtle ways < 1549860769 435837 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Pokémon card game TC? < 1549860799 330123 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, it is much simpler, but i haven't played these things in almost 20 years < 1549860808 143764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( how did I get so fucking old? ) < 1549861297 797448 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, I wanted such thing too. I did have some ideas about it though < 1549861326 807816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if Pokemon card is TC, but, probably there is not enough memory; it has limited memory while Magic: the Gathering has unlimited memory. < 1549861496 264189 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of unbounded counters? < 1549861534 269554 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an automaton with 1 unbounded counter (and appropriate operations) is TC, right? because you can Gödel-encode a whole tape < 1549861550 586896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need two counters, I think. < 1549861556 117819 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549861557 682721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it depends on your operations. < 1549861572 355915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's incremenet/decrement/etc. you need a scratch counter. < 1549861577 36944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with two counters you can do basically the two-stack-machine thing < 1549861581 994173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549861634 788726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can encode a stack with two counters, and four counters with two counters < 1549861644 626253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_machine#Two-counter_machines_are_Turing_equivalent_(with_a_caveat) < 1549861773 236387 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549862282 382574 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549862527 279716 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549863921 202372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549864888 856752 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549866303 164538 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you need to add to the mcculloch and pitts model of neurons to make it turing complete? an infinite supply of neurons? < 1549867046 247887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is mcculloch and pitts model, therefore I don't know < 1549868741 249696 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549869003 258823 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549869417 662473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of making the program for cards of Magic: the Gathering using either Lisp-based or RDF-based; an example in the RDF-based format (I mentioned before) is [:counter [:target :spell]] for "counter target spell". < 1549869676 404247 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure about some other kind of effects, but one possibility might be [:edit [:target [:or :spell, :permanent]]; :match [:choice :color]; :replace [:choice :color]] or something like that, for Sleight of Mind < 1549872083 829143 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549872368 671297 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549873293 831278 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549874151 858359 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549874213 271060 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549874238 393891 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549874343 786675 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549874378 415067 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549876999 102211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549877029 701873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: number of bytes instead of the number of bits for numeric types => I don't know, but I did that once in the names of library types in a small C++ library I wrote < 1549877174 834498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think either the number of bytes or the number of bits is better than some kind of word sequence like "char, short, long, uh... long long?" or "byte, short, int, long" or "byte, word, doubleword, quadword" or "byte, halfword, word, doubleword". even "byte, wyde, tetra, octa" gets stuck once you want to name larger sizes. < 1549877227 396597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the x86 architecture has instructions with "quadruple quadword" in their name < 1549877230 412226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets ugly < 1549877378 869009 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549877393 411591 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because the letters can collide: "S" in the mnemonic is used for "signed", "single", "scalar" and "string" < 1549877426 138540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"D" is always "double", but it can be the "double" of a doubleword (4 bytes), a double quadword (16 bytes), or a double-precision float (8 bytes) < 1549877460 630361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it up to octuple quadword with AVX-512? < 1549877493 335217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Intel convention of calling 16 bit values "words" is very annoying. < 1549877598 936317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but they gave up trying to give new names, and the only way such large data are manipulated is when you move a whole register worth of data, so the MOVDQA instruction can move not only 16 byte XMM registers, but also full 32 byte or 64 byte registers < 1549877605 455640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DQ stands for double quadword < 1549877634 337752 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the instruction name in the manual is "Move aligned packed integer values", which doesn't even mention "double quadwords" anymore < 1549877639 425728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they realized it's getting ridiculous < 1549877782 189963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that, plus there's an unaligned version MOVDQUA and the strange SSE4_1 legacy instruction MOVNTDQA, and those can move 32 and 64 byte too now and in the future respectively < 1549878037 749914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the MOVNTDQ instruction too < 1549878092 262331 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moven't < 1549878208 309405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'd be interested in an esolang suitable for describing cards in a MtG-style game" => zzo38 wants a non-eso lang for that, since using it to model M:tG would be a useful thing and thus make the language non-eso < 1549878250 636722 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549878266 214525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for doubling counters, you know there's a card in Ravnica Allg that doubles counters on one object, right? < 1549878323 216187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://scryfall.com/card/rna/123/biogenic-upgrade < 1549878340 521665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really useful for programming though < 1549878723 313792 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549879054 928782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190210.html < 1549879055 860093 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190210.html: b_jonas < 1549879077 679489 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is is possible to have a sequence of consecutive semiprimes of arbitrary length < 1549879095 231974 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the sequence 21=3*7, 22=2*11 is a sequence of consecutive semiprimes of length 2) < 1549879166 738989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no < 1549879189 228016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you can't have one longer than 5 < 1549879272 246066 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: can you explain why not? < 1549879310 519886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: try to figure it out yourself first < 1549879320 603797 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1549879372 194947 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have it < 1549879402 166420 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way a multiple of 6 can be semiprime is if it's 6 < 1549879409 908830 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a multiple of 6 every six numbers < 1549879563 756026 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the longest you can do is of length 3, because that argument works for 4 as well < 1549879582 445452 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I found one of length 3, 33=3*11, 34=2*17, 35=5*7 < 1549880389 954744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you can say something stronger than that < 1549880397 467988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which multiples of 4 are semiprimes? < 1549880407 939979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you already said that < 1549880420 615501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, didn't read all the way down < 1549880549 294425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549883338 940049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549885587 395925 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549886112 154876 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so fascinated by the fact that we know there are infinitely many prime paires with a distance of k, but we don't know k yet < 1549886120 669308 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot grasp how to prove that < 1549886153 436305 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549886158 841499 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: honestly a lot of what we know about prime distribution just seems magic to me < 1549886176 619136 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read "Introduction to the theory of numbers" in a little more depth < 1549886186 871331 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, that too < 1549886196 259389 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549887147 937612 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549887171 690529 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for the question about Mornington Crescent, see under https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Opera_houses_in_the_United_Kingdom and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Opera_houses_in_England . < 1549887426 613312 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or do a category-intersection to find all opera houses in London with https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=en&project=wikipedia&depth=6&categories=Opera%20houses%20in%20England%0D%0ATheatres%20in%20London&ns%5B0%5D=1&ns%5B14%5D=1&search_max_results=500&interface_language=en&active_tab=&doit= < 1549887484 446388 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'll probably need to check the location, whether it still exists, and whether it counts as an operetta house < 1549887535 745414 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549893114 8655 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549893585 713917 :monkeystance!~monkeysta@27-32-150-35.tpgi.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1549893656 854650 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549893730 357390 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :self < 1549893736 960043 :self!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1549893795 155426 :monkeystance!~monkeysta@27-32-150-35.tpgi.com.au PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1549895729 281722 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549899348 254886 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpxnchbuggmgwmuq JOIN :#esoteric < 1549899899 149706 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1155 < 1549899899 942041 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1155: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1549900793 534240 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1549902702 742066 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549904298 831831 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549905119 224059 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1549906044 583596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59801&oldid=59718 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1084) 10 < 1549906111 768998 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1549906129 448681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59802&oldid=59801 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+42) 10/* Hello World Program */ < 1549906603 62901 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: :q < 1549906932 210376 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1549907480 756531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59803&oldid=59802 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-42) 10/* Hello World Program */ > 1549907834 801855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59804&oldid=59803 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+555) 10/* Implementations */ < 1549908246 848090 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1549908526 376947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59805&oldid=59804 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+26) 10 < 1549911384 904032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549912868 727205 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549913105 239415 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549914331 835536 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpxnchbuggmgwmuq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549914587 277928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Well, anyways the operetta house in XYZABCDE.ZZT game is just called "Operetta House of ZZT", so it isn't an actual operetta house anyways. < 1549914825 725354 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cetctcgelvhbwdpe JOIN :#esoteric < 1549915150 79646 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the fastest possible invertible float -> string function < 1549915195 269519 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "string" is a asciz char array) < 1549915247 539874 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably something that offers some kind of lookup table. < 1549915271 362507 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe equivalent to "fastest function from an array of bytes that may be zero to a larger array of bytes that are NOT zero" < 1549915328 497043 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically an escaping question < 1549915334 744812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If zeros are rare, escaping them (and the escape character) isn't half bad, though variable-length. < 1549915390 442688 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't care how slow reading this back is, just how fast I can dump this to stdout < 1549915439 811500 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing is avoiding zero, so that I can use zero to separate things < 1549915477 318950 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or escaping zero I guess < 1549915511 92954 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, find the least common byte, make it an escape character < 1549915512 115112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you don't need to have a zero in the escape sequence of zero. < 1549915569 7424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't we do some nice prefix coding instead of zero termination? < 1549915581 112379 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: prefix like what < 1549915589 142780 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh including the length? < 1549915597 204729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... length byte. data. or type tag. data. < 1549915602 547544 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :riight htat makes more sense < 1549915623 27036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed from the question the context didn't allow for that. < 1549915656 106827 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well I assumed it was probably slower to dump the length for some reason < 1549915660 892921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well yes, but then orin wrote about dumping to stdout and not caring how long it takes to decode... which suggests a larger degree of freedom < 1549915705 715012 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a debug output where it will be mixed with other output < 1549915774 695628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think adding the length should not take long at all < 1549915774 736044 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized it might be faster to do printf("here is the output Oren cares about %d\n",len); then write() ; < 1549915777 68 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for floats < 1549915798 739289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: doubtful, the itoa algorithm will take some time < 1549915810 329367 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however, it may beat write() for the unrelated reason of stdio buffering) < 1549915834 938186 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tag/len/body is the way to go < 1549915843 114374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also nest them to log tree-shaped datastructures < 1549915952 971967 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a library (I'm sure not the first implementation of this idea) where you could do printf-like logging calls, but it would actually just write the arguments in raw form, along with the address of the format string < 1549915978 66072 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... ctully I think it has to be exactly one call to wrtie(), because otherwise ouput from other threads will mix in < 1549916005 559748 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a log viewer which would read the log and the executable used to generate it, and perform the formatting < 1549916015 947472 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the assumption that only string literals are used as format strings < 1549916037 522527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm what about ASLR? < 1549916049 615429 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering about that :) < 1549916057 164621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably a solvable problem, but did you deal with it?) < 1549916062 815141 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a long time ago, we were on RHEL 4, I don't think there was any ASLR < 1549916067 62099 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are relatively many zeros in popular floats (like 1.0), so if you did want an escape-based solution, it may be best to pick *two* least common bytes (say a, b), and use the mapping {0 -> a, a -> ba, b -> bb, any other x -> x}. < 1549916085 562254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if all else fails you can start your log file by putting in a copy /proc/self/maps < 1549916086 642449 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I would probably do is just dump the base address of the .data section < 1549916089 794460 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549916114 501350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming Linux, kind of. But other OSs should provide similar facilities.) < 1549916134 856546 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern unsigned char data_section[] __attribute__((section(".data"))); < 1549916136 778289 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm does anyone know if write() is atomic < 1549916168 973933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that would create a load time relocation < 1549916187 312331 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could dump &data_section < 1549916191 988359 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I just fkd if I want to output anything into a stdout that is shared with other threads all spewing garbage < 1549916196 668025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think there are automatically generated symbols for section begin/end < 1549916206 878015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I believe cstdio has locking by default < 1549916210 660891 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fwrite() would be atomic < 1549916216 552053 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't recall for sure so look it up < 1549916254 165502 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be implementation defined < 1549916262 158083 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems likely, as the C spec doesn't even have threads (until C11) < 1549916277 395716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On POSIX for write I think that depends on what you're writing to. For example for a pipe "Write requests of {PIPE_BUF} bytes or less shall not be interleaved with data from other processes doing writes on the same pipe". < 1549916286 447889 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX requires stdio to be thread-safe, which is quite unfortunate since it kills performance and since there's no practical way to operate on the same FILE from multiple threads (data will come out hopelessly interleaved; atomicity is only at the character level)." < 1549916291 11058 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549916300 973518 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can also implement your own locking. < 1549916327 97361 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or send the messages to a single logger thread somehow < 1549916337 440364 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one way would be datagram sockets) < 1549916408 968543 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I guess I'll just open a new file from MY thread < 1549916423 127396 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 __attribute__((section())) < 1549916426 436766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect fwrite() to be better overall, unless there are many threads; in the latter case I would think of splitting the log files into one per thread. < 1549916463 900088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see https://github.com/mortehu/xflags ? < 1549916465 35253 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's a lot of threads writing things, but only one of them writing something I care about < 1549916470 580675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not really sure that her particular section() trick works
< 1549916514 256208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for constant strings it should be .rodata I suppose < 1549916521 626824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fancy command line flag library that puts the metadata in a section rather than using a bunch of C++ constructors like gflags. < 1549916621 103352 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O (a library to generate images of flags)
< 1549916640 148816 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah yeah < 1549916653 701039 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you'd be boned if you're using -fdata-sections < 1549916655 935607 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1549916663 662763 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a long time since i really thought about these things :/ < 1549916667 370563 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw "xflags" and assumed it was like part of X11 < 1549916674 922388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use a linker script to export a start-of-section symbol, and I think something like that might exist by default, but I don't think you can do it with just an extern declaration. < 1549916676 583545 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek xtank and studd < 1549916692 686015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to figure out something to do with her life
< 1549916704 190691 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I assumed for a long time that pdftk was a gui program using the Tk toolkit < 1549916759 318697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for the purpose at hand, *any* know .rodata symbol should suffice; it doesn't have to be at the start of the section. < 1549916760 627663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, it's not < 1549916776 147346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*known < 1549916821 912985 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: true < 1549916866 118503 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xflags --blazon "Azure, three fleurs-de-lis Or" < 1549916884 690712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1549916886 401769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 112020Z 06007KT 030V100 9999 -SHSN FEW015 SCT030 BKN050 01/M01 Q1024 R08/29//95 NOSIG < 1549917031 563955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ASLR worth the trouble? < 1549917063 35306 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :questions < 1549917092 130311 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense? < 1549917104 603493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it not even that effective < 1549917107 473100 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYYZ < 1549917108 254277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYYZ 112000Z 09015KT 15SM SCT024 BKN260 M04/M09 A3033 RMK SC4CI2 SLP281 < 1549917139 154754 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine you had to find a needle in a haystack. if the location of the needle was only in a small set of locations, you can find it very easily no matter the haystack you're searching in. < 1549917153 963261 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, if the haystack is small, you can just sift through it in a very small amount of time. < 1549917159 570179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this an analogy to finding an address in an address space? < 1549917162 189501 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1549917175 285354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like maybe you can just say "address" and "address space" < 1549917185 718434 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :people seem to do well with physical analogies. < 1549917208 590190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i already know what aslr is < 1549917212 890076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, there are ways around it, but they impose other difficulties on attackers < 1549917217 437863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :american sign language recognition < 1549917223 498171 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul. < 1549917224 468886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :way tougher than speech recognition imo < 1549917229 522311 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a good knowledge of the current landscape on ASLR and ASLR bypass < 1549917243 388814 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, windows ASLR is not as good < 1549917249 104084 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that may have been fixed, but it was true for a long time < 1549917252 485353 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your address space is able to be entirely traversed in a very small amount of time, ASLR won't fix it. < 1549917261 239812 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b/c each DLL gets loaded, when possible, at the same address in every process < 1549917263 823100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my limited understanding, with ASLR, you can't do ROP blindly; you need some information leakage to figure out which addresses to jump to first. < 1549917274 886523 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1549917276 874521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or blind guessing < 1549917278 217140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So exploits get quite a bit harder. < 1549917286 366149 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 64 bits gives enough randomization to make blind guessing pretty hard < 1549917299 715927 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, and that's why it's reasonably effective. < 1549917332 663534 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example is if you're in a tool shop, and you wanna build something, but you're blindfolded and don't know where all the tools are, the shop has to be really small for you to do it in a suitable amount of time, or reasonably well-organized. < 1549917343 130834 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on 32 bit x86 you have less than 20 bits of randomness) < 1549917344 456642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like that analogy isn't physical enough < 1549917349 751089 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get physical < 1549917351 829941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe give me something in terms of electrons and photons < 1549917372 599822 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wavefunction of the addresses you want never collapses. < 1549917375 210023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1549917382 597580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :∿ < 1549917393 744889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612887/how-quantum-terrorists-could-bring-down-the-future-internet/ < 1549917402 682873 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :∿~- < 1549917410 146421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :04q08u09a11n12t13u04m 08t09e11r12r13o04r08i09s11t12s < 1549917412 600467 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1549917413 260263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1549917413 405271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This has been bugging me since yesterday.) < 1549917432 958285 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a finite amount of terrorists, or the terrorists are in a finite amount of states? < 1549917435 354581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I know you have colors turned off, so I feel obligated to inform you that the above is in rainbow color. < 1549917457 595169 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: much obliged. but please don't do it again. < 1549917462 211854 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do the terrorists have a number of quantized energy levels. < 1549917482 372886 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"terrorizing", "kinda tired", "super tired", "sleeping" < 1549917490 942966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Also that page blocks incognito mode so I'm not going to read it. < 1549917495 662175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can appreciate the title. < 1549917524 555426 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that has been bugging me most is actually that people are considering to build a quantum internet. Or at least applying for and receiving research grants on that topic. < 1549917552 90199 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: huh, but it works without javascript?! < 1549917564 961996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, apparently it has JavaScript that detects incognito mode and hides the content. < 1549917569 229390 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :academia can get funding for anything that has buzzwords in it. < 1549917585 970155 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is both a blessing and a curse depending on the intent of people using that funding. < 1549917588 522140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so switch off javascript as well :P < 1549917599 844457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's the poing of incognito mode if you leave javascript enabled?) < 1549917612 748783 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool black borders. < 1549917654 447446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, which browser is this anyway. I have "private browsing". < 1549917669 410004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :google chrome < 1549917673 317464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you could also go to https://arxiv.org/abs/1901.08873 < 1549917700 724848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I didn't, so I don't know how accessible that paper is) < 1549917715 678573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\rainbow{Quantum Terrorism}: Collective Vulnerability of Global Quantum Systems < 1549917717 658607 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the point is everything is logged out, random sites can't access your facebook account < 1549917717 816565 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's on arxiv. < 1549917725 479820 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can see non-customized results for things < 1549917734 496485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: my what now? < 1549917742 643483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The major imminent investments in quantum technologies will bring concepts like a \rainbow{global quantum Internet} and \rainbow{quantum Internet-of-Things}, closer to reality. < 1549917756 356124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do these words mean? < 1549917769 257045 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: But I know what you're saying. < 1549917771 430919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum internet of things. jesus christ. < 1549917786 391066 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean. < 1549917792 351546 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon your toaster will contain a helium dilution fridge with superconducting chips inside < 1549917797 741874 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can quantumly monitor your toastt < 1549917804 382520 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :function nnfi { nano ` find . -name "$1" ` } < 1549917805 794638 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean at least it doubles as a fridge. < 1549917823 59970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It means that there's smoke from burning VC money. < 1549917827 139111 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw remembering where any of these source files are < 1549917841 214710 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: let's put a billboard on 101 that says "FINALLY, the quantum AI cloud for IoT blockchain" < 1549917842 392658 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagged file system! < 1549917898 568602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "finally tagless filesystem" < 1549917899 676270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1549917902 90681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1549917906 28972 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1549917911 354258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "finally tagless file system" < 1549917912 364585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1549917915 958975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How much do 101 billboards cost? < 1549917941 783653 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1549917952 851918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got bored after about 30 seconds trying to figure that out just now < 1549917967 322795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-a-billboard-cost-on-101-in-San-Francisco < 1549917970 611617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Creating a Mobile Application where Billboard Customer and Advertisers can work on booking billboard spaces Will be Approx 12000 - 15,000 USD." < 1549917976 595490 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Client Quit < 1549917986 308019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can this person pay me Approx 12000 - 15,000 USD for wasting my time so hard with that answer < 1549918029 534262 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a shitty answer to the wrong question < 1549918064 907731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Demand for a billboard along Highway 101 between San Francisco and San Jose, which billboard sellers refer to as the “gold coast,” is so high that some companies are on a six-month waiting list." < 1549918066 96534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top answer there says you can get something for $500 < 1549918074 905086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems low < 1549918084 516147 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just one of many reasons why 280 is better than 101 < 1549918089 79184 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no startup billboards < 1549918096 588926 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe it was stuck behind the pillar of a bridge :P < 1549918110 898169 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :are turing machines mealy machines? I think turing machines are mealy machines. < 1549918111 449335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't get why there's a waiting list instead of an auction. < 1549918148 255806 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Billboard-ads-booming-in-Silicon-Valley-5921690.php is what I'm looking at and it quotes a range of $14,000 to $40,000 a month. < 1549918176 458952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: split it? < 1549918193 604143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo let's just get a billboard in iowa < 1549918255 455928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: in the sense that the symbol written may depend on the current tape symbol... yes. < 1549918276 861438 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quantum ai cloud for IoT corn < 1549918286 642326 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hire a graffiti guy on silkroad to spray paint your startup name over teh bilboards < 1549918298 299651 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549918304 680084 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right but your machine reacts immediately instead of reacting based on the state that's entered. < 1549918321 319628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i get my billboard allocation on the \rainbow{blockchain} twh < 1549918330 793176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we care about Mealy and Moore machines? I do recall having to learn this for a computer architecture course but I never saw a motivation (and I can no longer remember which one is which) < 1549918335 63126 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1549918397 875135 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's mainly "how can input affect output". moore machines are typically more stable because their response is based on the current state rather than the current transition, so small "glitches" in input don't accidentally trigger outputs. < 1549918425 509572 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems like all automata are mealy machines, not moore ones. < 1549918503 126517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp harvard < 1549918504 2758 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549918516 952975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp neumann < 1549918517 982540 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549918539 498371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a great prank this channel is. < 1549918555 433692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got people typing strings like "`grWp" non-ironically. < 1549918580 297901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's UsEfUl. < 1549918606 664591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like unix but even more ridiculous < 1549918636 802676 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549918640 150205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using the word "useful" in a very limited sense here, obviously; the usefulness does not extend beyond #esoteric.) < 1549918653 81928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? #esoteric < 1549918654 167970 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone. < 1549918689 401223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is the AEZ below water? < 1549918731 244915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you understand windows SEH twh < 1549918737 48687 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549918740 305036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo why are windows things so complicated < 1549918748 998681 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are posix things so complicated < 1549918755 918958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also true < 1549918761 68708 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix is a shit-show < 1549918770 861356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1549918785 874651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but win32 is quite a mess itself < 1549918869 304992 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sorry for the MSFT engineers who had to reimplement all the wacky linux syscalls and flags etc < 1549918876 886733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to have done a really good job < 1549918912 484902 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing i tried in WSL that broke was gnu screen < 1549918918 812532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm going to blame screen for that by default < 1549918929 520767 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh does wine work in WSL? :P < 1549918939 704699 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is an enormous pile of cruft that is probably doing all kinds of terrible things < 1549918948 743276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and POSIX terminal stuff is crazy < 1549918983 705484 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you'd need to add an X server as that's not part of WSL < 1549919000 655094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux system call ABI is much more reasonable than all of POSIX. < 1549919019 115019 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1549919026 635678 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many ioctls they implemented < 1549919033 429466 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some for terminal stuff at least < 1549919039 442817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ioctl < 1549919040 437960 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549919058 378177 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctls are bad < 1549919058 971365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something with HP Lovecraft, maybe? < 1549919123 423495 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wish I had a system call for... but I'd have to design a proper API and convince 10 million people... let's put in an ioctl instead." < 1549919130 376905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549919188 40338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows approach of having regular functions for syscall services seems p. reasonable. < 1549919197 867282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except they do all sorts of odd things. < 1549919205 971683 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1549919246 887584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way you make a window in Win32 is you pass it a window callback and it can call it whenever it feels like. < 1549919258 796190 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1549919267 646413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though you also need to get window events, it can call it outside your event loop. < 1549919275 338620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times imo < 1549919401 811422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a syscall ABI would probably not do things like that. < 1549919407 721979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for signals, I guess, so who knows. < 1549919535 752411 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549919551 107808 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix signals are bad too < 1549919553 539450 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is bad < 1549919564 830528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are good < 1549919566 744532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything should be a fd < 1549919567 386537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cats < 1549919589 112290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalfd is pg < 1549919601 550476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows is full of handles IIRC < 1549919605 4554 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1549919620 486260 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: should i learn winapi sometime < 1549919623 832037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1549919631 372094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :signals are a mixed bag. some things really need to be so async that they should be handled by signals, so then you use signals. for some things like SIGPIPE the signal is only there for historical compatibility, and you just use the sane interface instead. < 1549919677 81474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the rest, when you don't need async but there's no specific non-signal interface, like SIGCLD, you use signalfd on linux, or have the signal wake up your event loop otherwise, for which there are event libraries like schmorp's libev. < 1549919681 302324 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced signals are the way to go < 1549919688 620996 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps it should be an option, yeah < 1549919690 503392 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for unix. I don't know about win32 api. < 1549919697 533168 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think signalfd is a nicer way to do signals in many cases < 1549919710 73688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: like I said, sometimes you need them, and sometimes you don't, in any case we can't get rid of signals now < 1549919742 783700 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549919774 826716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows SEH is the analog of signals, I think? < 1549919789 21020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does all sorts of complicated things like stack unwinding. < 1549919813 511635 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack unwinding is complicated < 1549919819 166708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes SIGPIPE is useful for terminating the process without having to program it yourself (you can tell it to ignore SIGPIPE if you do not want that; custom signal handlers are probably not so useful for SIGPIPE though), but unfortunately you cannot tell which file descriptors to use SIGPIPE and which don't (except for sockets), which can be a problem if writing a library rather than a standalone program. < 1549919826 95348 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the elf stack unwinding bytecode turing complete < 1549919881 246032 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would think normally you would want SIGPIPE only for file descriptor 1 anyways, but nevertheless it is used for all file descriptors.) < 1549919950 137739 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o < 1549919983 835419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that openbsd implements pselect() as a userspace wrapper for select() < 1549919988 857167 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thereby defeating the entire purpose < 1549919997 171583 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and breaking posix compatibility < 1549920009 335010 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it was so at one point < 1549920013 671945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549920094 866963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1549920094 962857 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl* youtube < 1549920098 749913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1549920098 814812 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1549920105 567483 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why can't we have nice software? < 1549920105 852245 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: today's revenge of the nerds is called? iirc, you're not using emacs. < 1549920114 591472 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix is pretty esoteric < 1549920118 97703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think SIGPIPE is too useful even for fd 1, because the programs that want to terminate on SIGPIPE also want to terminate when they get any unexpected error from write, not just EPIPE. < 1549920123 227640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... worked better than expected < 1549920154 216367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, that is a valid point. < 1549920202 317665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think EPIPE comes from the times when memory was so tight that some programs didn't include the error handling code that they should have, just to gain a little space < 1549920332 182774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo invent a good system call api instead twh < 1549920370 364564 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, i've thought about it < 1549920382 896597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few things i think would be important < 1549920423 55533 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 is a uniform way to refer to kernel objects < 1549920427 668955 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a capability < 1549920450 904463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would prevent many issues in posix such as the race condition on PIDs, which are just integers and not fds < 1549920468 767725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: don't we already mostly have that, with file descriptor-like objects, fds on unix, and whatever their fancy windows equivalent is called on win32? < 1549920474 333972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some uppercase thing < 1549920485 728248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has some generic way to get sent to a spawned process too < 1549920488 510829 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that is the kind of thing i mean, but they aren't uniformly used in posix < 1549920494 957835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except lots of things aren't fds. < 1549920500 667680 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many other ways to refer to kernel objects which have various issues < 1549920515 28179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly even designed better on win32 than on unix, though they have the advantage of less historical baggage < 1549920521 642516 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as, you can fork() to create a child process, then the process dies and the PID is reused, now you will be sending signals to some random other process < 1549920525 201561 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if everything was a 64 bit UUID < 1549920529 603328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fork() even a good api < 1549920532 597573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it worth the trouble < 1549920536 229809 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably not, but it's fun < 1549920542 277303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, that one is a known problem that's still not solved < 1549920548 916069 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement a limited form of call/cc with fork < 1549920556 587513 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was p. happy with myself when i got that to work < 1549920563 244102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: 64 bits is not v. universal hth < 1549920567 102327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :naming processes < 1549920583 168587 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fork() and exec() should be combined into a single thing < 1549920583 638132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of something too, there is some similarity like Plan9 that you can use files for most stuff, so maybe if it is call Plan10. You can use file descriptors for many object including processes like you mention (although process IDs exist too, which are used to find a running process in the file system). If your program does not define Plan10Main() then the default implementation sets up POSIX compatibility and then calls main() < 1549920585 685378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the namespace is even just 15 bits large, so it gets reused very quickly < 1549920598 444640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The default implementation of Plan10Main() is added by the C compiler) < 1549920602 88852 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah sending fds or equivalent between processes is important < 1549920618 861420 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one of the good things in posix, even if the API for it is really shitty < 1549920627 928013 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :creds too < 1549920640 974491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think creds could be consumed by that sort of fd-as-capability, but i'm not sure < 1549920648 17378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, the sending part is fine, and both unix and win32 has that. the hard part is not sending on unix, again because of really old historical reasons < 1549920649 741362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know bitcoin does 2^65 hashes per second < 1549920659 69650 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1549920664 239902 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot < 1549920702 983300 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's too many, we need to shut down bitcoin < 1549920712 631694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I also think it's important to have a uniform way for userspace and kernelspace to exchange structured data < 1549920726 215836 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought of fork(), I thought that sometimes fork() is helpful although another variant that can often be better, which can be called cfork(), which shares all memory and all registers even including the program counter and stack pointer, and suspends the parent process; once the child terminates or executes another program instead then the parent continues from there; exec() returns 0 if successful in this case. < 1549920747 193506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than pointers to C structs? < 1549920771 976525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way, you can program many things before calling the other program. < 1549920780 562730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is that just vfork? < 1549920786 962813 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be a) documented in a machine readable way, with b) autogenerated bindings for popular languages, c) typed, d) fast < 1549920789 709614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, it's slightly different from vfork < 1549920802 444575 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need vfork() anymore, because cfork() is better) < 1549920804 143276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one don't see the point to introduce that now, since we do have a working vfork < 1549920807 89023 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1549920807 940737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, there are some problems with the ways structs are used in posix < 1549920813 821214 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find them pretty cumbersome < 1549920819 307453 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, there are so many of them < 1549920827 773744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not quite; it is a bit different. < 1549920832 320706 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, at some point it might be good for OSes to be built on something other than raw binary data < 1549920833 36603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you designed it all over from the scratch it may have been better, < 1549920837 670763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see much point < 1549920843 619456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it would save much resources < 1549920847 975581 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a typed FS could be very interesting too < 1549920851 738348 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :strongly typed shell pipelines < 1549920875 624367 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: PowerShell does that IIRC < 1549920883 880681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't PowerShell have typed pipelines? < 1549920891 860731 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: as it happens, Cap'n Proto satisfies all of those criteria, plus it has a capability system, plus compatibility between different protocol versions < 1549920944 993163 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another obvious thing to do with a capabilities based OS is to add some cryptography so that capabilities can be signed and serialized and shipped around the world < 1549920961 130995 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but windows is still built on top of raw CPU stuff rather than on top of the CLI < 1549920998 454902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cap'n Proto for system calls? I'm a bit skeptical. < 1549921003 998160 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you could have a strongly typed language as the layer below most of the operating system < 1549921008 9055 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, it's just an aside < 1549921044 482101 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can send capabilites then you can also implement sockets that way < 1549921046 219299 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would probably cost some speed but increase safety < 1549921054 23429 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :opening a connection is done by sending a capability < 1549921071 849679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will also give you some transport layer security < 1549921084 623290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending a capability to whom? < 1549921094 831492 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. kernel capabilities and structured/typed data. < 1549921097 411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: most of those probably needn't involve the kernel, they can be done as a wrapper on user side, with a demon that handles the cryptography stuff < 1549921107 539930 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1549921115 54560 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree about structured data < 1549921118 376349 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sending it to a process on that machine which handles new connections, i guess < 1549921123 614970 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im not sure about typed data or caps < 1549921124 171581 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with that is the vast amount of software already rlying at some point on the unsafety of the computer it runs on < 1549921150 4490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: speaking of all these things, have you seen the mill yet < 1549921165 288466 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>___< < 1549921168 341964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo watch the first few videos at 2x speed < 1549921171 66803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that vfork() does not share registers and does not guarantee sharing memory or suspending the parent process; my proposal changes those things. < 1549921217 913156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you like or dislike the thing where you have c structs which start with a tag and length field < 1549921228 444328 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can cast between different types > 1549921232 142348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59806&oldid=59781 5* 03Cortex 5* (+12) 10 < 1549921233 363899 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes. and I still don't see why what you propose would be so useful it's worth kernel support < 1549921251 968395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that thing? < 1549921269 623011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: vfork suspends the parent process < 1549921290 975582 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like, you can have different versions of a struct but they all start with the information necessary to determine its type and length < 1549921296 650494 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk, seems like it could be good for api compatibility < 1549921305 143188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of a version with the length. < 1549921307 175266 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add fields w/o breaking anything < 1549921311 982685 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549921318 170019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the same function can accept multiple versions of a struct as long as you increase the length each time. < 1549921318 950951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but it doesn't _guarantee_ that, on account that Linus said like twenty-five years ago that if people abuse vfork for things that aren't just an optimization over fork, then he'll change it to act as fork < 1549921322 96540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said Windows does that? < 1549921326 500837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used it. < 1549921334 517841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ksplice did some silly things to add fields to structs < 1549921343 917190 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes storing it in padding or an unused field < 1549921354 710432 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in a hash table keyed by the struct's address < 1549921412 656439 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vfork() isn't very pointful on modern virtual memory machines < 1549921448 711870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know there are some architectures without virtual memory where linux has vfork but not fork < 1549921452 588710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh are we discussing Linux or POSIX? The manpage says that POSIX deprecated vfork. < 1549921455 209373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it sure is, if you're like git and spawn a thousand child processes < 1549921468 242126 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that makes sense < 1549921478 438286 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: As b_jonas said, it is not guaranteed. Also, it does not share the program counter with the parent process, and might not share variables that are stored in registers, as far as as I know. < 1549921574 308180 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you think it's good to have a syscall like clone() that lets you individually decide which things to share or not share? < 1549921587 465255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1549921599 530974 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1549921605 463098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of windows system calls can take a process handle as an argument < 1549921614 586591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the mmap equivalent can allocate in another process's address space and so on < 1549921619 125776 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neat < 1549921626 803495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems much nicer than ptrace for debuggers for instance < 1549921629 657004 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember UML doing some nasty hacks for that < 1549921636 804945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML? < 1549921639 965315 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :user mode linux < 1549921644 653771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1549921644 931756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :` uname -a < 1549921645 506299 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1549921646 653554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` uname -a < 1549921647 509001 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux (none) 4.9.82 #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1549921654 807000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1549921680 606201 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that did mention UML at some point. < 1549921690 304115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat /proc/cpuinfo | sed -n 2p < 1549921691 27044 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vendor_id : User Mode Linux < 1549921692 358592 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same bot that was here forever ago < 1549921693 15343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^ < 1549921709 658852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's a reincarnation, the one that was here forever ago was called HackEgo < 1549921715 553888 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549921720 898173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same codebase? < 1549921731 175702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the userspace contents was inherited from a backup of HackEgo < 1549921738 836298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the codebase, fizzie knows < 1549921743 476950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know he made some substantial changes < 1549921745 586491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember poking at UML for a while trying to find an exploit for the bot < 1549921746 892779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of it are probably kept < 1549921754 733647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I believe so, since Gregor made it public. < 1549921774 673634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that yes, yes, it's the same codebase) < 1549921777 305055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is the keeper of the bot now < 1549921789 857583 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hackeso < 1549921790 952643 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso is almost but not quite unlike HackEgo. < 1549921839 19532 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that missing a "completely"... < 1549921865 332006 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 'entirely' < 1549921873 453354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it would be false. < 1549921880 566918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: maybe you should work on the mill team < 1549921887 274652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :get some sweet equity < 1549921895 208048 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ah yes, it's "entirely". < 1549921903 919311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot is also sort of such a reincarnation. I gave away the code but I no longer support it. < 1549921912 796397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use it though < 1549921921 800587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ |.'lufesu' < 1549921922 497688 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: useful < 1549921933 723597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it written in J? < 1549921935 215798 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :did tangentstorm succeed after you, or was there someone in-between? < 1549921938 433738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's essentially the same codebase, I've made a few tweaks but I made those when it was still HackEgo. < 1549921939 336856 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in ruby < 1549921941 690945 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, worse. ruby 1.8. < 1549921956 1629 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't speak ruby, so I just host it in a mostly-working state) < 1549921976 651217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got ported to ruby 1.9, and you have to correct syntax errors and then fix some references to String methods to port it over to any ruby that's still supported, which is like 2.1 now < 1549921982 294860 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: where's boily? < 1549921982 726481 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i see what you mean? if so, we can use more bits in local loops. it definitely uses _lots_ of tail calls is guaranteed to make venom bleed out of your nose < 1549921985 665800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2.3 or something < 1549921989 424544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe a few tweaks since then too. But still. < 1549921990 907464 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I might've done that maybe < 1549921999 997224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fizzie < 1549922000 907216 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall having to do some minor edits to get it running < 1549922020 42327 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby --version is apparently 2.5.0 < 1549922021 49145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might still have < 1549922029 259062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot source: < 1549922029 527390 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, jevalbot source is http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/jevalbot.tgz < 1549922030 789584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that command < 1549922032 775874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549922040 119504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that points to where I gave away the code < 1549922086 462067 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I should put the changes I made locally on https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot < 1549922095 490592 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then maybe update that command to point there instead.. < 1549922099 212320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549922103 25722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think of opinion of some interactive fiction VMs such as Z-machine, Glulx, TAVERN, OASYS, etc? (Maybe in future might also be TAVERN32, to make a 32-bit VM to combine good ideas from Glulx with TAVERN.) < 1549922196 396366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: should 64-bit computers use a single address space < 1549922204 998804 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1549922207 699453 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the advantage? < 1549922241 805271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX has positive (virtual) addresses, and negative (physical) addresses. < 1549922249 266417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the mill videos talks about it < 1549922256 876602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tlb, for one < 1549922272 591714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it's not on a hot path for every l1 access < 1549922384 884307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tricky... how do you do process isolation, and shared memory? < 1549922428 245689 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :channels~ < 1549922433 952306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the Mill people do it they have protection separate from translation. < 1549922440 938334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these work against each other but I imagine one would end up with something TLB-like that keeps track of ownership/permissions anyway, and you will have that in the path to L1, or incur the wrath of the spectre.) < 1549922755 414023 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, and it looks like I didn't declare you admin in the config file--I guess I could change that if you'd like < 1549922765 392455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I don't think it matters < 1549922780 190997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the admin thingy is not very useful, especially since it goes only by nick < 1549922780 661638 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, I'll keep it as it is then < 1549922788 290274 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh *nod* < 1549922795 466769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't allow anything to admins that you don't want to allow to everyone < 1549922797 219684 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it doesn't let an admin do too much < 1549922802 521425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you change that code entirely < 1549922811 209555 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :As mentioned, I don't really speak ruby :p < 1549922822 243341 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my modifications have been minimal < 1549922834 917343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to allow more administration stuff, you probably have to add a local control interface that doesn't go through IRC. it's possible through irc, but not very useful < 1549922870 122545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: from memory, it allows to quit the entire bot, to join or leave channels, to enable or disable the short invocation on channels, < 1549922875 531037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to ignore or unignore people < 1549922878 257676 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicks < 1549922896 743419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you query whether a nick is registered on nickserv? < 1549922900 680110 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i mean < 1549922909 61946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can. it's a bit complicated < 1549922915 980142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's three IRC extensions that you have to use for it < 1549922918 617658 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean nowadays you can request a capability for it < 1549922918 746726 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have it check that the nick being used is registered to the right account < 1549922921 766537 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1549922944 460479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: for this, it's not really worth IMO < 1549922949 201589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be worth for other IRC stuff < 1549922955 364951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell the details if you really care < 1549922962 69238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to implement it that is < 1549922995 582711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured it out at some point, with the help of #freenode, for potentially the other IRC bot < 1549923001 901636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never really considered it for jevalbot < 1549923013 654948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can check for the client's address. < 1549923034 845913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the entire address for authentication instead of only the nickname. < 1549923042 809635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes you can, if you want anyone on the wifi behind the NAT to control the bot < 1549923056 560467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that's a well-spread security model in some companies, but I don't really like it < 1549923088 744212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can be problem if you have Wi-Fi. But even then you could use cloaking; Freenode has that < 1549923113 474557 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even the model where you need the login password of one of 20 random people working at the company to access every private data of the company isn't a model I like < 1549923134 327833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: even without wifi it's a bad idea, most local networks are just not controlled enough < 1549923186 741372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and yes, you could use cloaking, that's a bit better, but then you could also use an invite-only channel, or just control the bot locally without going over IRC < 1549923217 170505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, it can work if it is controlled enough. But, yes, invite might also do, if you need to do with IRC. Local administration is probably best though in most cases < 1549923247 687918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also send a password with each command in PM < 1549923268 583172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, but if it's a cleartext password, then you need a way to tell that the bot is really what it claims it to be < 1549923273 991977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which you need a channel < 1549923275 149013 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549923277 230194 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549923282 553198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets uglier than the bot telling who you are < 1549923285 468490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I thought of that too, but you will need to identify them like b_jonas mention < 1549923293 727640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a channel or memoserv actually) < 1549923312 713007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid that by using cryptography < 1549923375 218430 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a little cumbersome to sign every message, but you could have an IRC client do it I suppose < 1549923410 93206 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot/commit/e715b6d0bc1d4a8578d5c7e8d803b0cb069c71f6 the diff is a bit messy, I guess I also removed some trailing whitespace at some point < 1549923438 120389 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently with the version check commented out and mostly like.. changing some regexps to use RegExp.new, it seems to work < 1549923505 625552 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I guess I didn't care much for the nickserv bits.. < 1549923527 95567 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, I switched to identifying to nickserv account via PASS instead < 1549923927 821675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mill also does implement fork using a special kind of translation < 1549923946 694383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swapped a CDful of randomness with a friend once with the intention of using it for one-time padding our /query. < 1549923951 647595 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never unfortunately happened. < 1549924048 115118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fungot's admin privilege is enabled by matching the message prefix to a preset nick!user@host (because it was easier than any wildcarding), which I guess should be as difficult to circumvent as getting an arbitrary cloak on Freenode is. < 1549924048 416171 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the germanic subset is fnord, even to non-customers: a few people :) and no confirmed time travelers < 1549924241 393826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Remember that one-time authentication scheme we talked about once? < 1549924257 807269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how it worked but it was TG that it was possible < 1549924354 488018 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1549924395 901489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The counterpart of one-time pads for authentication < 1549924505 963049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, it's kind of scow that OTP is so malleable < 1549924511 876084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do better twh < 1549924564 393324 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure... add authentication < 1549924574 832683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that < 1549924583 154928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a feature < 1549924607 234465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cipher modes are less malleable than others < 1549924633 279574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't use stream ciphers for disk encryption for various reasons probably including this one < 1549925174 411276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah disk encryption is weird < 1549925255 414684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not actually this reason but related reasons that also apply to OTP < 1549925259 749308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... where do you put the MAC :) (I learned that "enterprise" drives support sector sizes a bit over a power of two for that purpose.) < 1549925342 670816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, do you know the trick for using arbitrary memory as a zero-initialized array without explicitly initializing it? < 1549925354 922586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a good trick but it was kind of surprising that it was possible. < 1549925363 156133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/good/practical/ < 1549925514 130547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549925529 144603 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1549925580 316138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need two extra arrays of the same length. < 1549925732 25133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is, you have three arrays, T data[N], int valid[N], int confirmation[N], and an index, c, where confirmation[0:c] is considered initialized. < 1549925754 293820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid has indices into confimration, and confirmation has indices into valid < 1549925767 731979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :data[i] is valid if valid[i] < c, and confirmation[valid[i]] == i < 1549925774 403685 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knew
< 1549925799 524003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's useful for sparse arrays if you have tons of memory? < 1549925839 114839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So each time you see an invalid index you add it to confirmation and increment c. < 1549925842 170680 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wager there's no practical use for it. < 1549925853 620870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if T is huge itself. < 1549925931 651843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted you could have one bit vector indicating which elements of your data array are valid. < 1549925937 877214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see uses for that. < 1549925959 584112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sounds more sensible. < 1549925988 649882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should stop saying "vector" to mean "array" < 1549925990 450273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from a theoretical perspective this is brilliant :) < 1549926017 112679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this trick for the whoa, dude value < 1549926031 128156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any more whoa, dude algorithm tricks for me twh < 1549926035 117170 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and start using "matrix" to mean "heap"? < 1549926048 701761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1549926053 534439 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :x += y; y = x - y; x -= y; < 1549926083 90906 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector is a c++ism anyway < 1549926109 137658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i https://twitter.com/johnregehr/status/1093948316948168704 < 1549926114 841895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's the ^ swap trick for rings that don't have characteristic 2.) < 1549926181 631707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1549926204 594753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What algorithms should go in my list of clever and simple algorithms? < 1549926238 621688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1549926240 202542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashlife < 1549926240 597959 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort I guess? < 1549926246 739072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pollard's rho hash collisions < 1549926269 111308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :questions. < 1549926271 372341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :exhaustive search of compact infinite spaces ("seemingly impossible functional programs") < 1549926292 796117 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, mergesort is IMO the simplest efficient sort < 1549926315 872653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mergesort is a bit too well known. < 1549926378 529357 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, although I'm not actually sure what makes me percieve it as simpler than quicksort < 1549926391 965623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :quacksort < 1549926417 721211 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess because there's no question of arbitrarily picking a pivot < 1549926438 336136 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore no weird inputs that can screw it up < 1549926486 279739 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah htat's why mergesort is simpler to implement < 1549926528 983386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: related to the collisions: rainbow tables < 1549926538 463756 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need heap sort to combine the advantages < 1549926560 759098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That uninitialized memory trick seems very close to the other uninitialized memory trick, https://research.swtch.com/sparse < 1549926574 407358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Rainbow tables are kind of close to Pollard's Rho, right? < 1549926596 164563 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah but heapsort is hard to remember the details of, even more than quicksort < 1549926670 334645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't that the same trick? < 1549926679 417764 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they solve a different problem (preimages) and they have the distinguished subset trick for that. Which also comes in handy when parallelizing the search for hash collisions. < 1549926685 304852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is-member(i): return sparse[i] < n && dense[sparse[i]] == i" is the thing I said, anyway < 1549926714 298116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Your trick had an extra T data[N], this is just a set of integers. But I guess it's essentially the same trick. < 1549926734 120713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just use void as T, I think. < 1549926761 868892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming sizeof (void data[N]) == 0 < 1549926771 766731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also assuming that's not a syntax error. < 1549926772 263908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. So it's an (allegedly) practical use for the trick, then. < 1549926807 596377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a syntax error. `sizeof (void[N])` would have been a constraint violation but not a syntax error. < 1549926822 268299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although on GCC it would've been just N. < 1549926873 385370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing. At least it allows pointer arithmetic on a `void *` assuming an element size of 1. For consistency's sake, you'd expect sizeof (void) == 1.) < 1549926884 575829 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, consistency < 1549926897 238595 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so, basically, I think the distinguished subset trick, while related, is worth having its own entry on the list of clever ideas < 1549926900 258248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In GNU C, addition and subtraction operations are supported on pointers to void and on pointers to functions. This is done by treating the size of a void or of a function as 1. < 1549926903 271304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A consequence of this is that sizeof is also allowed on void and on function types, and returns 1." < 1549926906 299481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, consistency. < 1549926916 809152 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1549926919 153637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could also put a generation ID for each element and increase it by 1 to reset. < 1549926964 266488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Come to think of it, it might still not allow arrays of void even if void has a size.) < 1549926970 954809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the sizeof an uninhabited type < 1549926979 171390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it -∞ < 1549926980 643336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1549926990 860873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has COMBINING INFINITY᪲ < 1549926994 508653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no one ever told me < 1549927002 712126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW < 1549927043 753398 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :modular smileys? < 1549927062 28776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining left-eyed monocle < 1549927072 574268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :°͜° < 1549927108 362258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH LIGHT CENTRALIZATION STROKE" (and the same for U) is the longest-named combining character. < 1549927125 173177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH DOUBLE MIDDLE TILDE as the runner-up. < 1549927149 818938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMBINING HORN is the shortest. < 1549927157 96362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH LIGHT CENTRALIZATION STROKE matches it < 1549927157 889214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's also a magical artifact? < 1549927167 913368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's "the same for U". < 1549927173 515361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1549927178 728450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't expect me to read inside parentheses! < 1549927189 646506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: disjoint set forests are probably my favorite data structure < 1549927196 722434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Union-find? < 1549927198 859015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1549927205 380916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that data structure is tg < 1549927240 869882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add to my question that I mean data structures and algorithms that aren't in a typical undergraduate CS curriculum or something. < 1549927314 20906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is reading Unicode character names so much fun anyway? I can't stop imagining the warning signs about COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW. < 1549927323 719175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the shortest code point name < 1549927334 10791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like U+1F402 OX < 1549927337 242349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1549927349 180843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM is still the longest. < 1549927410 764756 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the syntax ```namespace {``` mean? < 1549927413 340825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't this channel going to adopt a code point together < 1549927419 579258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: It's an unnamed namespace. < 1549927423 628124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: unnamed namespace, or unnamespace for short hth < 1549927431 384668 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it < 1549927461 407320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the namespace that can be spoken of < 1549927461 715961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: You can use it to make symbols externally invisible. < 1549927465 361460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the eternal namespace < 1549927469 848933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its members have potential scope from their point of declaration to the end of the translation unit, and have internal linkage." < 1549927481 492107 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need them to be externally visible agian god damn it < 1549927485 508053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be thankful they didn't use the keyword "static" for it. < 1549927497 68050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :static namespace { < 1549927498 380012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"static namespace { ... }" has a nice ring. < 1549927507 583616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you hear that one about the hyphenated keywords? < 1549927530 37748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While one might think such things are too ridiculous to consider, note that we received serious-seeming suggestions during JEP 325 to use `new switch` to describe a switch with different semantics. Presumably to be followed by `new new switch` in ten years." < 1549927534 380689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/amber-spec-experts/2019-January/000945.html < 1549927538 587981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was for Java.) < 1549927578 23957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you gotta change the vowel < 1549927587 714949 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tl;dr is a suggestion to allow - and - constructions to be used as keywords. < 1549927588 122023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch swatch swetch swotch swutch < 1549927634 128465 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I'm temporarily nameing the previously unnamed namespace as "namespace goddamnit {" < 1549927636 119689 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'static namespace' would be p. reasonable < 1549927646 501138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespace[static 4] < 1549927654 437393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I've usually used "namespace internal {" if I've needed an unnamed namespace that's named. < 1549927678 977944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then 'using internal;'? < 1549927682 250639 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it only needs to be named until I find the bug < 1549927684 48307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use using at file scope? < 1549927696 963847 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that the Unicode red heart emoji is actually HEAVY BLACK HEART < 1549927699 945775 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only just learned this < 1549927713 142704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a change imo < 1549927720 581170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I know that trick (of using uninitialized memory), but I think that's one of those things that are almost never practical in the real world < 1549927725 781528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use "using namespace /name/;" at file scope. < 1549927744 243614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I tried to make a HEAVY BLACK HEART with COMBINING INFINITY but it looks terrible :/ < 1549927753 366608 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, right < 1549927765 418607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i like this trick for the whoa, dude value" => yeah, that's a good summary < 1549927780 960890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That one seems to be rendering as a black heart here? < 1549927800 703122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://emojipedia.org/heavy-black-heart/ < 1549927804 307104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of actual colored hearts. < 1549927819 397986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is it. < 1549927837 746268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my Android keyboard has two different smiley faces that look similar. One of them has a smile that's a little bit wider. < 1549927841 532269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which one to use. < 1549927860 412883 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1549927869 488278 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to determine the codepoint numbers of them? < 1549927875 253405 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549927879 70360 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do that then you can figure out which one should be used. < 1549927879 796379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I don't feel like bothering. < 1549927889 598571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the other one is the SLIGHTLY SMILING FACE. < 1549927898 493019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it so complicated to transfer text from my computer to my phone? < 1549927907 691721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, that sounds plausible. < 1549927922 709459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if I want a full smile I gotta give up on SLIGHTLY SMILING FACE. < 1549927928 740652 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WSL terminal doesn't support emoji and stuff :( < 1549927933 960470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (The new Hangouts Chat experience shows the names in the suggestobox when you type a : on the computer.) < 1549927937 468339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: transfer to your phone for what goal? < 1549927951 54188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But Hangouts Chat isn't available for consumers, right? < 1549927955 544167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have internet access on your phone? can you pastebin the text? < 1549927964 342796 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it's only available to G Suite customers, yes. < 1549927968 31826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's the hassley way. < 1549928267 644849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use a temporary Google Keep note for that. < 1549928279 39453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's also what I do! < 1549928295 290002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it involves many steps. < 1549928301 9546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I've been thinking it's not the right way to use Keep, but two people can't be wrong. < 1549928312 336108 :zemhill______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549928315 123396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably have a special-purpose Keep note for it so I can select all. < 1549928315 187719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does involve that, yes. And the syncing isn't super seamless. < 1549928315 423534 :ATMunn_!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1549928320 778858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I have other junk in the same note. < 1549928325 787786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zemhill______: You're getting a little ridiculous with the underscores. < 1549928388 876412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should finish migrating the BF Joust hill to esolangs.org and the esowiki bot, then I could retire that thing.) < 1549928675 596606 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549928707 442983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what's that now. < 1549928722 282573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot` < 1549928722 417191 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i did just now is instead of storing the data in. < 1549928733 302908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that explains it < 1549928742 123092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the other one dropped off. < 1549928748 796662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1549928749 97885 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the only thing that guy knows how to quote " within fnord in forth? all other postscript operator names ( re stack, anyway, try the lot and see what it looks like < 1549928764 452158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't actually know what it's own nick is.) < 1549928793 174393 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928793 720928 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928793 720984 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 360502 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vowwzubkvuqusyig QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 636465 :neanias!sid218528@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ixiabwokfocrecue QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 807872 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 847272 :zemhill_____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928861 625923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Now Unicode also has a BLACK HEART which is actually rendered black < 1549928895 597864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :♪ I see a red heart and I want it painted black ♪ < 1549928901 125350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1549928942 904377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember the old Android hearts? They were nonsense. < 1549928948 135640 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549928962 852380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was YELLOW HEART https://emojipedia.org/google/android-4.4/yellow-heart/ < 1549928972 991468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549928973 817151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And https://emojipedia.org/google/android-4.4/green-heart/ and so on < 1549929079 226722 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :J? < 1549929107 914860 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ intended for ctrl-f search, saw a glimpse of "J?" in the scrollup < 1549929141 45097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey! that might be the one rare example when my honorable and learned friend fungot put a space after an open quotation mark correctly < 1549929141 229684 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: null date, null char, null int, null double, null etc). what good is functional programming" < 1549929197 242107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: are you sure? isn't it just rendered solid, when normally heart suit and diamond suit would be rendered as an outline? < 1549929222 804897 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549929231 986946 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549929241 776895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has both BLACK HEART SUIT ♥ and WHITE HEART SUIT ♡ < 1549929264 339611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HEAVY BLACK HEART ❤ and BLACK HEART 🖤 < 1549929279 518326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um yes, so I say those are solid and outlined respectively, whereas the original heart suit is ambiguous < 1549929296 462328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, like how the ascii minus and ascii hyphen are ambiguous too < 1549929354 789382 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1549929394 980121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549929400 230647 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549929403 170856 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549929413 239649 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but they later biguated them in unicode but kept the ambiguous one too < 1549929459 336532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any "original heart suit", all three of HEAVY BLACK HEART, BLACK HEART SUIT and WHITE HEART SUIT are from Unicode 3.2. < 1549929499 924688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMILING HEART WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES < 1549929509 686857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCOWMAN WITHOUT SCOW < 1549929515 853380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the cat w/ heart eyes < 1549929527 592543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats are tg < 1549929539 836513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can #esoteric be the esolang + cat channel < 1549929541 923629 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss when emojis were tiny inline .gif files < 1549929551 236809 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on forums and stuff? < 1549929554 349764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA had some good ones < 1549929556 43772 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549929572 813847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo why doesn't unicode have combining characters to control animation < 1549929574 505190 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on AIM < 1549929580 335133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: "biguated"? what does that mean? < 1549929581 353721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In Chat, I keep a catbot window open because it doesn't have any "no chat visible" mode (that I can find) and it feels arbitrary to keep a specific chat window open. < 1549929596 257751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Chat being Hangouts Chat?