< 1549929608 641905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right, the thing you can't have. But still. < 1549929611 234255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the deal with programs not having a "no chat visible" mode, anyway? So annoying. < 1549929624 666543 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: biguate: to make something biguous, or less ambiguous < 1549929626 634490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In plain Hangouts I think you could have a "no chat visible" mode. < 1549929639 345767 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I use Slack -- which I try not to -- I keep having to type "C-k sla" to switch to Slackbot, as a semi-neutral thing. < 1549929652 703068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Pidgin I gave up and I just leave focus on the first tab. < 1549929660 715831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there has to be an original heart suit, doesn't there? there's a heart suit character in both cp437 and in windows Symbol font < 1549929678 275432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are encodings they've encoded in unicode < 1549929679 834420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so annoying. < 1549929685 783858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: ah < 1549929716 340104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I thought that's called "disambiguating", or "dambing" for short in Wikipedia jargon < 1549929723 691857 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1549929746 504990 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that "disam" seems like two negative prefixes in a row < 1549929751 971496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That does't mean it needs to have an ambiguous "original heart suit". I think the CP437 heart suit character is just translated to the BLACK HEART SUIT. < 1549929774 878354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, it's possible that one or more of those characters is the original one < 1549929775 466509 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"noninflammable" < 1549929816 647553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one or both of the Commodore PET/64 charsets also have a heart suit < 1549929817 622698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"am" is a negative prefix? < 1549929848 712901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, but "a" is, and taking just one letter off from a word that isn't actually prefixed would be misunderstandible < 1549929858 195054 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "an" is a negative prefix, and "am" is close < 1549929912 532815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the Unicode official CP437 table -- https://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/PC/CP437.TXT -- doesn't actually translate the <' ' characters to their graphical equivalents, but to the corresponding control characters. < 1549929922 390747 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.dictionary.com/browse/an- < 1549929934 78240 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1549929940 952333 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm ok < 1549929956 125209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how about the translation tables from symbol and petscii? < 1549929968 286456 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many bytes and codepoints wasted on never used ascii control characters :( < 1549929985 118727 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's why I often go out of my way to use them < 1549930015 726835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: they aren't never used. they were used as control characters in terminal/console keyboard input. < 1549930023 261813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the low ascii ones < 1549930030 797459 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're very rarely used today < 1549930034 470762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the high controls not that much < 1549930034 680114 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C1 control characters even less so < 1549930050 636534 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can send ECMA-48 codes using them, but people mainly use the low escapes instead < 1549930074 904356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: these days we aren't stuck with a font of 128 characters burnt into ram, so there's no such thing as "wasted" characters really < 1549930108 689742 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, one can avoid many problems by using \37 as your separator in CSV files < 1549930125 256833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you could have shorter UTF-8 strings if some of the two byte characters were representable in one byte < 1549930138 900397 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead those bytes are practically unused < 1549930174 735357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: yes, I currently use \x1F as a sort of separator in a text file I write from one program and read from another program, where I have to save text that can in theory contain arbitrary unicode characters, though rarely does < 1549930191 287436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I found the "IBM PC memory-mapped video graphics to Unicode" table -- https://unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MISC/IBMGRAPH.TXT -- and that one maps the 03 to 2665 BLACK HEART SUIT, so that's arguably the original. < 1549930228 389342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use \x10 as an escape prefix for certain control characters, plus \x11 to represent a crlf in the original < 1549930245 581758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have code to read the \x10 escapes by the way, because they've never come up yet < 1549930250 200325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have code to write it < 1549930255 652972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this new emoji people are using is SHOCKED FACE WITH EXPLODING HEAD 🤯 < 1549930258 643942 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the \x11 comes up, because some of the strings have crlf < 1549930266 802717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549930286 191144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I think I actually use \x0B to represent a crlf < 1549930287 575092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not \x11 < 1549930298 362659 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :test _ < 1549930323 995334 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, \37 is underline in IRC < 1549930339 718970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, HEAVY BLACK HEART clearly hasn't been intended to be related to any of that, it's in the "Punctuation ornaments" subsection of the "Dingbats" with the FLORAL HEART and HEAVY HEART EXCLAMATION MARK ORNAMENT and ROTATED HEAVY BLACK HEART BULLET and suchlike. < 1549930357 676119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's very unfortunate that it got co-opted to be the standard red heart on systems.) < 1549930414 266826 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that seems weird to me < 1549930445 324000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing nobody was willing to wait for the actual emoji stuff? < 1549930447 491128 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The black and white heart suits are part of Miscellaneous Symbols / Playing card symbols.) < 1549930933 93405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The specific use case of a sparse set that needs efficient iteration is a good one, I guess. < 1549930949 950083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you'd want something like the dense array anyway. < 1549933141 754441 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549933183 737281 :neanias!sid218528@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arxjcafvxtqqivcm JOIN :#esoteric < 1549933186 417376 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-polzogpvdiocutwl JOIN :#esoteric < 1549933909 101346 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I use a C++17 if with an init-statement, I get the feeling I'm actually writing Go instead. < 1549933944 780405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you know you can declare variables in the middle statement of a for loop? < 1549933947 684114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned that today. < 1549934041 857947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that. < 1549934288 871805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you always been able to do that? Apparently at least from C++11 onwards, and also in the condition part of while and if. < 1549934373 232138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you always have. Or at least from C++03, which is far enough. < 1549934384 176041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. In C you definitely can't. < 1549934435 854916 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Yeah, and it was kinda new you could do it in the first statement of a for loop. < 1549934454 640998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not quite as useful as the init-statement if/while, but could still be useful. < 1549934479 238190 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The init statement if/while is pretty useful. < 1549934498 202259 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame it's not C. < 1549934506 698189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's as useful as doing it in a while, which I did know C++ allowed. < 1549934524 991518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, it allows the Go-style init-statement in a while. < 1549934532 118318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's not the same. < 1549934539 681515 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no reason it couldn't be in C that I know of, for that matter) < 1549934781 995855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The init statement makes this more useful with iterators. For pointers you could've done `if (auto p = find(x)) use(p);` even before, but now you can also `if (auto it = x.find(y); it != x.end()) use(it);` < 1549934881 519512 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they add statement expressions ever < 1549934986 260815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my until-end-of-block if statement, you don't need initialization statements as a special feature. < 1549935006 656551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You write "if (x := y; z) { ... }" as "{ x := y; if(z); ... }" < 1549935331 810881 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cetctcgelvhbwdpe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549935832 448132 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://web.archive.org/web/20070829102324/http://www.ccs3.lanl.gov/mega-math/infinity.map <3 < 1549935989 687102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549936105 293025 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549936226 535458 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549936375 103209 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549937181 95556 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the god of snow? > 1549937493 628305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59807&oldid=59657 5* 03A 5* (+22) 10 > 1549937517 535558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59808&oldid=59807 5* 03A 5* (+56) 10 > 1549937542 775177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59809&oldid=59808 5* 03A 5* (+67) 10 > 1549937633 470240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59810&oldid=59809 5* 03A 5* (+15) 10 > 1549937652 83945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59811&oldid=59810 5* 03A 5* (-17) 10 > 1549937681 404025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59812&oldid=59811 5* 03A 5* (+78) 10/* Custom links */ > 1549937720 224915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59813&oldid=57455 5* 03A 5* (-4602) 10Blanked the page > 1549937736 315526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59814&oldid=59812 5* 03A 5* (+51) 10 > 1549937868 320229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59815&oldid=59814 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10 > 1549937886 237248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59816&oldid=59815 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10/* Custom links */ > 1549938081 380832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59817&oldid=59816 5* 03A 5* (+101) 10/* Custom links */ > 1549938704 372255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59818&oldid=59817 5* 03A 5* (+814) 10 > 1549938753 777851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59819&oldid=59818 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Redirected page to [[User:A]] < 1549938800 959903 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1549938869 751362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59820&oldid=59819 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10 > 1549938920 294720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59821&oldid=59820 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10 > 1549939353 310688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59822&oldid=59821 5* 03A 5* (+456) 10 > 1549939378 316732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59823&oldid=59822 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549939531 842832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59824&oldid=59823 5* 03A 5* (+62) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549939989 467533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59825&oldid=59824 5* 03A 5* (-56) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549940129 257738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59826&oldid=59825 5* 03A 5* (+57) 10 > 1549940325 249247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59827&oldid=59826 5* 03A 5* (+120) 10 > 1549940372 28866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59828&oldid=59827 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549940429 510701 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59829&oldid=59828 5* 03A 5* (-79) 10 > 1549940455 963417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59830&oldid=59829 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10 < 1549946540 679925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A A A < 1549946997 439639 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549948472 509639 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1549948772 922874 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59831&oldid=59830 5* 03A 5* (+468) 10 > 1549948852 629195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59832&oldid=59831 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* Function innovation */ < 1549949035 676569 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549949253 908951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59833&oldid=59832 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10 > 1549949280 272059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59834&oldid=59833 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950166 190771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59835&oldid=59834 5* 03A 5* (+299) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950252 617201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59836&oldid=59835 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950374 497055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59837&oldid=59836 5* 03A 5* (+201) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950420 113761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59838&oldid=59837 5* 03A 5* (-14) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950439 11599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59839&oldid=59838 5* 03A 5* (-17) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950603 190208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59840&oldid=59839 5* 03A 5* (-1906) 10 > 1549950686 728784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59841&oldid=59840 5* 03A 5* (+49) 10 > 1549950844 164789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59842&oldid=59841 5* 03A 5* (+155) 10 > 1549950953 106067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59843&oldid=59842 5* 03A 5* (+89) 10 > 1549951044 874824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59844&oldid=59843 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10 > 1549951062 843015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59845&oldid=59844 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10 < 1549951082 694319 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what he's on about. < 1549951097 960562 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't seem to know much if anything. < 1549951116 900764 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he made a two-variable factorial function. > 1549951478 881499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59846&oldid=59845 5* 03A 5* (-11) 10 < 1549951507 2164 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1549951588 828863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59847&oldid=59846 5* 03A 5* (+62) 10 < 1549952075 436920 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549953237 953051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549953584 918739 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1549961351 237038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hizzie < 1549961362 474113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I download IRC logs with wget -c < 1549961382 539794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something about the configuration of the HTTP server makes it so it tries to redownload a fully-downloaded file? < 1549961409 374393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/logs/2019-01.txt doesn't have a Content-Length < 1549961448 944821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe these are generated from a database or something instead of being real files. < 1549961600 328734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: those aren't files; they are generated from a database on the spot < 1549961614 184349 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(confirming what you wrote) < 1549961885 836177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I supposed to download IRC logs, anyway? < 1549961894 175514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do now is make a list of files and wget -ci it < 1549961907 744713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I add newer files at the top < 1549962368 878030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know. < 1549962415 633358 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549964441 257204 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549964703 261339 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549964764 946759 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549965882 722835 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549965943 468615 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549966005 115963 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549966031 416652 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549967152 687446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Luqui 5* 10New user account > 1549967883 894773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59848&oldid=59749 5* 03Luqui 5* (+190) 10/* Introductions */ > 1549967896 525817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59849&oldid=59813 5* 03Luqui 5* (+193) 10/* Impossible */ new section > 1549967910 898102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59850&oldid=59849 5* 03Luqui 5* (-17) 10 > 1549967921 360030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59851&oldid=59850 5* 03Luqui 5* (+1) 10/* Impossible */ > 1549968397 89028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59852&oldid=59851 5* 03Luqui 5* (+195) 10/* Impossible */ > 1549968460 210957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59853&oldid=59852 5* 03Luqui 5* (+19) 10 < 1549968857 240567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549969076 307820 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549969076 389040 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549969151 65323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, it's tricky. The "real" files are essentially the daily -raw.txt ones, except in https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/log.proto form and with the past (immutable) days Brotli-compressed. < 1549969169 448267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I could easily expose those real files, but maybe you don't want to download them in that form. < 1549969297 424650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Supporting Content-Length to the formatted monthly files would involve either scanning all the logs twice, or buffering it all in memory, and that'd be sad to do when not absolutely necessary. < 1549969719 683348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I *could* send a Last-Modified header with the files, and support the If-Modified-Since request header, which would at least allow you to use "wget -Ni" to not download the files that haven't changed, although it would still redownload the unmodified prefix that you already had of the most recent month every time. < 1549970027 278652 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549970027 361169 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549970214 344679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I might also consider supporting Range requests, but it would be a bit more work, and for that to be useful you'd need to wget to work in some sort of "append mode" where it just sends "Range: bytes N-" where N is the size of the local file it has. < 1549970227 885929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to wget/to convince wget/ < 1549970260 725857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be doing that with -c, I don't know. < 1549970315 306668 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549970403 236090 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549970403 283723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, doing that would still need me to essentially compute Content-Length, because while the Content-Range header can say something like "bytes N-M/*" to indicate the instance length is unknown, it must still provide concrete numbers M and N before streaming the response body. < 1549970529 759877 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549970729 455491 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549971191 485001 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ...or maybe you could just make your download script do something like (where $f is the "2019-02.txt" or equivalent): if [[ $(date -r $f +%Y-%m.txt) > $f ]]; then true; else wget https://esolangs.org/logs/$f; fi < 1549971382 485969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think that should only download files one extra time after the titular month is complete. Feel free to use ! in the condition instead of the "then true; else" nonsense, I'm always too afraid of Bash conditional expressions to. < 1549971975 305060 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549972148 872296 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549972505 987772 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549972671 259072 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549973066 938788 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549973196 201353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the handy reference chart at http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html claims that the god of snow is Hoder. < 1549973283 242165 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: although according to Age of Mythology it's Skadi https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Skadi < 1549975825 779089 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-01.html#l2mb , you know there are these nouns and adjectives associated with operations: "addition, additive" for plus, "subtraction, subtractive" for minus, "multiplication, multiplicative" for times, "conjunction, conjunctive" for and, "disjuction, disjuctive" for or. Is there such a fancy name for xor? Or do we < 1549975825 861338 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just called that "exclusive disjuction, exclusive disjunctive"? < 1549976296 425796 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549976478 356968 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549976506 223734 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "implication, implicative" for logical le, but the normal term for logical xnor is "equivalence", which doesn't end in "ation" so it dosen't help us. I think there was an obscure synonym "biimplication" though, so for xor we could use the term "inbiimplication, inbiimplicative", only that sounds horrible < 1549976563 281993 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_connective mentions "bi-implication" and "biconditional". < 1549976737 423872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might just be that "exclusive disjunction". < 1549976752 145924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I fully support all efforts to add new obscure terms. < 1549977549 462615 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549977820 451258 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, "bitwise exclusive disjunctive" is obscure enough I think < 1549977919 881362 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about min and max, are there such terms for those operations too? < 1549977941 655901 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maximization" is already taken for something else < 1549977987 590139 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gcd and lcm :-) < 1549978037 293781 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that would be "greatest common division, greatest common divisive" and "least common multiplication, least common multiplicative" < 1549978198 351836 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to read what Knuth and Iverson use for these, they might give good ideas for words < 1549978387 16493 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we use something like "masonry" and "carpentry" for min and max respectively, given that Iverson associates them with floor and ceiling? are there adjective forms of "mason" and "carpenter"? < 1549978605 521966 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe some terms associated with heaven and hell. < 1549978672 560656 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "descension, descensive" and "ascension, ascensive"? < 1549978705 394891 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1549978815 231439 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! apparently the term for xor is "exclusion, exclusive" < 1549978821 135353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like that < 1549978829 690501 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foundation, foundative for "floor"? < 1549978829 732597 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to mess with "exclusive disjunctive" < 1549978855 428540 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'd like a matching pair, naming min and max in a related way < 1549979000 461419 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549979053 316799 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "demonization, demonizative" and "angelization, angelizative" works. < 1549979083 78497 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be something about hills and valleys < 1549979262 622344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggizing, biggisive; smallizing, smallisive. < 1549979444 205583 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also "inflation" and "deflation" < 1549979469 983154 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :economists use lots of fancy jargons, we could ask them what they call something that causes inflation and deflation resp < 1549979497 959726 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or doctors for what they call something that causes growth (or welling) and shrinking resp < 1549979528 308477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that whole bull/bear/hawk/dove thing that I can never keep straight. < 1549979530 70429 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must have fancy latin terms for these < 1549979540 422799 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I have to go < 1549979547 433861 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what bull/bear/hawk/dove < 1549979550 799509 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549979557 471704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The markets thing. < 1549979566 656250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.binaryoptions.co.uk/trading-terms for a random up-the-top Google link. < 1549979571 789187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions not endorsed. < 1549979657 372916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "have to go" as in right now. < 1549979688 170937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-02-12.html#lOd < 1549979688 522028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1549979804 246689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"binary options" in the domain? that's not inspiring any confidence. < 1549979834 289739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a nice wavy rainbow logo, that has to count for something. < 1549979937 157490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "I've bought a binary option at the horse races." ) < 1549979978 438242 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549979985 792880 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost went for a lottery ticket but those tend to have multiple payout options. < 1549980009 532241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... which makes them non-binary. < 1549980274 855082 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 NICK :arseniiv < 1549981047 157173 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1549982808 383632 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549985568 603078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I usually thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of her statement, but it was handed to me just as I left my office to come down here, so I can only assume she entrusted the Transport Secretrary to deliver it to me." -- Corbyn made a joke :) < 1549988465 108108 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-alovmsucilpdgipm JOIN :#esoteric < 1549991103 308193 :poq!~null@skidstain.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549991128 98574 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION love ion and elliot < 1549991136 398122 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pours out drink for them. < 1549991138 910758 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :5¯29\8_9(11ツ6)13_27/5¯ < 1549991147 870746 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PART :#esoteric < 1549991937 965021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549992115 403734 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549992176 8984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549992295 563576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's "contraction", "extension", and a second sort-of pair "compaction", "expansion" < 1549992315 72934 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even say "contractive" and "extensive" too if you want adjectives < 1549993187 527943 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549993411 448685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's "position, positive" and "negation, negative" for some reason < 1549993524 721299 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :stateful automata really do form the backbone of any given model of computation. stitching states together, you can yield any control flow construct you'd like. this differs from things like assembly, where the state structure is implicit and line/address/label-oriented. < 1549993775 40524 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should embrace automata-based programming. < 1549993858 669191 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inherently visual and textual, lends itself well to composition and algebraic manipulation of code, and the underlying concepts are simple and relatively commonplace. < 1549994509 777524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think it's worth putting very much effort in at all. When I wrote that without realizing the whole database situation. < 1549994591 540995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The reason I do it by hand is probably that I used to download IRC logs for a channel where they were pretty haphazard, sometimes collected from multiple sources etc., so there were many files with non-canonical names. That's not particularly relevant here. < 1549994655 156889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're sort of haphazard here too, in the sense that there are two or three different collections of irc logs that you may have to download < 1549994779 8090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esolangs.org logs are an attempt to merge the existing collections. Though I should really look into redundancy about gaps since it started recording "natively". < 1549994818 412682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what do you have against binary options twh < 1549994839 180840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you mean like collect logs on multiple machines, to cover the time when one machine loses connection to the internet server? < 1549994853 437937 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to donate server time on imode.tech for that. < 1549994858 942647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even auto-connect to different halves of the irc network in case of netsplits :-) < 1549994891 80693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly right now I don't have a usable server of mine set up, one that's connected to the internet continuously. I should pay for one eventually. < 1549994899 225614 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION coughs. < 1549994910 669213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that. Not going to be on top of the priority list either, though. < 1549994912 294530 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode.tech is up 24/7. < 1549994964 187950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there has been more downtime for freenode reasons than for the current esolangs.org server reasons. < 1549994993 89463 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a droplet that's hosting some hobby projects, but it has a public IP and a short domain name. I'm not sure how you handle logs but I wouldn't be remiss at least being a forwarder for redundancy. < 1549995049 65263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but the servers where I ran stuff so far had more runtime for non-freenode reasons. and the ISP at home here is terrible, it cuts off for hours some nights. < 1549995074 791503 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have a ruby script sitting idle and scraping this channel from multiple parts of the network, dumping to disk and forwarding on to another server in batches if you guys want. < 1549995094 832216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: sorry, the multiple parts of the network was just a joke, don't take it seriously < 1549995102 61919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. :P < 1549995108 798063 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplits are reeeeeal. < 1549995122 71184 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you can try to collect logs on a disk if you want, and manage the sharing later < 1549995164 609802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now the way I handle logs isn't really set up for merging streams. Not that it couldn't be done, just I don't think I'll be attempting to do it in the very near future. < 1549995184 968320 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you store compressed logs? < 1549995242 310674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I store length-delimited https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/log.proto messages (without the event_id field, it's implicit) in a "one file per day" scheme with past days Brotli-compressed. < 1549995245 333891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could set up a system where we have a series of buffers that hold incoming log information from multiple sites, and we do N-way merges based on line count and then store the deltas. < 1549995268 549351 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat! < 1549995342 560248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think merging multiple streams recorded from different freenode servers needs a little bit of heuristics, because there's no canonical order of messages. < 1549995360 863020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549995362 244443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard < 1549995386 248874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was that really infamous netsplit when there was twenty minutes of lag between some servers or something < 1549995556 219632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could get it mostly correct. But I'd definitely archive all the original sequences losslessly, and only use the merged version for serving. Just so it's possible to backfill if things go wrong. Anyway, this is really not in scope right now. < 1549995594 301358 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :better idea: multiple bots hosted on a single server, each DMing eachother and timing the response times. a single bot is designated as the primary scraper, and the primary scraper is based on response times. if the primary can't communicate to the other bots, a different bot with the smallest average response time to the others is selected as the primary scraper. < 1549995628 921057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the problem is that if they run on a single server, then they'll all cut off when that server loses net connection < 1549995634 47149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when that server goes down < 1549995650 438537 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to be on different servers, ideally by very different internet service providers < 1549995651 628836 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, but that server is monitoring a single channel. < 1549995677 894360 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also in a datacenter under monitor. < 1549995696 337124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in that indefinite future when I host a proper server, I'll make irc logs of my own, and share the ones for publically logged channels < 1549995709 259136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that indefinite future is always years in the future no matter when you ask < 1549995717 244893 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do this right now. < 1549995721 241340 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks. < 1549995724 291610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: feel free < 1549995770 994199 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby makes this pretty easy. let me see what I can do. < 1549995786 63482 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549995793 529972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should do the stuff that doesn't require an always on server, just downloading stuff and processing < 1549995799 973674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and storing on my disk for later use < 1549996587 246778 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996597 259069 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996605 39124 :ibot2!~ibot2@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996611 860532 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549996611 860603 :ibot2!~ibot2@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549996612 212000 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1549996624 199196 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. that was a start. < 1549996664 457870 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all said hi to eachother and all died. < 1549996849 650674 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996850 93724 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996883 973678 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to wonder how far apart I should space communication between them. < 1549996981 897227 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have a producer/consumer process for logs: toss a local timestamp + the message to something like RabbitMQ and have something else pick it up. < 1549997009 150693 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549997117 40524 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1549997132 789007 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549997590 24048 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549997814 646380 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1549997830 301589 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Client Quit < 1549997902 459659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: #esoteric-blah is for testing bots, by the way. < 1549997906 148948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think. < 1549997911 282532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was some suffix, anyway. < 1549997919 263946 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry! I'll keep that in mind. < 1549998085 166153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's fine, it's just that testing can easily get out of hand. :) < 1549998087 475488 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998114 538202 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998166 811531 :zemhill_______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998263 985341 :Bob-!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998275 704428 :zemhill______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998275 792578 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998275 889637 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998275 995104 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998276 488227 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998276 536433 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 185007 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 323199 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 399582 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 681597 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest < 1549998301 392925 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998307 75643 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998333 759205 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998335 672425 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998353 915942 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1549998635 176812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CubixThree 5* 10New user account > 1549998918 156447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59854&oldid=59848 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+280) 10/* Introductions */ < 1550000416 28845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? #esoteric-blah < 1550000417 155488 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! < 1550001521 530662 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550001521 723123 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550002925 708737 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1550002947 524156 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550002963 378556 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble > 1550004359 299531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59855&oldid=59853 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+230) 10 < 1550005380 250665 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550005570 228608 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550007068 940543 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1550007068 940583 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1550008458 990166 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1550010281 632649 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Glulx, the "ushiftr" instruction makes an unsigned shift right. The shift amount is treated as unsigned, and anything more than 32 will make the result to be zero (all bits are shifted out). So, to change 0 to 1 and all other numbers to 0, I used shifting right 1 by the input number. < 1550010469 34855 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://twitter.com/lunasorcery/status/1095446373812658179 < 1550010471 227932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that tg < 1550010495 742830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is the best < 1550010517 295404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you should have a compiler warning on non-explicit constructors, unless they're explicitly non-explicit? < 1550010642 820327 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's terrible < 1550010651 852133 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is the best < 1550010687 620968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg = truly ghastly < 1550010714 517048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :grotesque? < 1550011177 40481 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum color { Red, Green, Blue }; void f(char* param); f(Red) < 1550011189 489090 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiles in C, maybe C++ too < 1550011200 558629 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Red is 0 is null < 1550011212 179352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: that actually depends on the version of C++ < 1550011229 419485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the version of C, I'm not sure which < 1550011239 287004 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so these days it will no longer compile < 1550011252 550503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they restricted the rules for what counts as a null pointer expression < 1550011269 425931 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1550011283 911152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mind you, that's the theory < 1550011287 66662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work in C, assuming no requirements beyond the standard ones. < 1550011296 360081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc actually accepted expressions that even the old rules said shouldn't be allowed < 1550011307 329964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has way too much implicit behavior < 1550011326 997982 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An integer constant expression with the value 0 -- is called a /null pointer constant/." "An /integer constant expression/ shall have itneger type, and shall only have operands that are -- enumeration constants, --" < 1550011333 850682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, gcc used to allow { int x = 8; f(x-x); } because it figured that x-x had the value 0 < 1550011341 476985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the standard never accepted that, because it's not a constant expression < 1550011346 694587 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1550011349 811168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but enum constant values are integer constant expressions. < 1550011351 529064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old rule was that any integer-valued constant expression with the value 0 worked < 1550011353 825164 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the things that pisses me off is that the committee is so unwilling to make changes for fear of breaking existing code < 1550011363 539954 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, sometimes they break existing code anyway < 1550011374 34694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new rule basically only allows a simple integer literal, of any type, perhaps with parenthesis too, I'm not sure about the details < 1550011383 754323 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have personally had my code break because of a poorly thought out DR < 1550011390 692750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Then it rejects conforming code. < 1550011404 511759 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can actually detect the difference with overloading < 1550011407 67225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you're talking about C. < 1550011420 480277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with overloading in C++ that is < 1550011436 819544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, it used to accept non-conforming code < 1550011457 234052 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't it great that there are contexts where "return x;" is fine but "return (x);" is UB? < 1550011458 75361 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x-x) is non-comforming because x-x is just a plain integer expression, so it can't be implicitly cast to a pointer (in C++) < 1550011473 710133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: WHAT? < 1550011476 404954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Sure, I was talking from the C perspective. < 1550011481 237076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my favorite "fuck you" in C++ < 1550011495 565011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is tg < 1550011501 859049 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it has to do with the rules for decltype(auto) < 1550011513 737222 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are different for an identifier vs. an expression < 1550011522 147208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what the heck < 1550011529 476418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1550011534 451231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :every programming language is terrible < 1550011539 963089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have their crazy quirks < 1550011562 927066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore they are literally all equal < 1550011586 784636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well write everything in whitespace < 1550011587 243976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, some of them are much worse < 1550011594 708416 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.llvm.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23812 < 1550011599 287689 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so mad about this < 1550011610 376868 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: when it's an expression, it tries to make a reference < 1550011641 470042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Looks like (again talking still only about C) GCC has no qualms about using an enum constant as a null pointer constant, but Clang has added a -Wnon-literal-null-conversion flag. < 1550011668 229266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which just says "expression which evaluates to zero treated as a null pointer constant".) < 1550011687 79766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also, I found out that there are some cases when glibc fscanf explicitly works slightly differently from what the standard allows, in how many bytes it consumes when it fails to read certain inputs as a number, and the glibc maintainers know that but claim it's a problem with the standard < 1550011700 716536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bug ticket about it < 1550011711 764552 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1550011754 731815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem is C-style strings, anyway < 1550011763 121749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are scow < 1550011793 386493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that doesn't even seem to mention return < 1550011857 938527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/rKLxrZ < 1550011921 35682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ah, it's in a function with the return type given as decltype(auto) < 1550011929 707768 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550011959 484605 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this pathological example is given in _Effective Modern C++_ by Scott Meyers < 1550011964 152995 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that book is tg < 1550011986 70956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what? but isn't that book older than decltype(auto) as function return type? < 1550011993 548092 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contents are very good and also the bird on the cover is top notch < 1550012001 280981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bird < 1550012003 212374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it covers C++14 < 1550012003 251745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bird < 1550012004 468441 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bird? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1550012018 633584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm. I thought it was older. < 1550012031 122150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deduced function return type newer < 1550012032 528280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those > 1550012036 740110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Glutton14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59856 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+4373) 10Created page with "Glutton is an object-based stack-based language created by [[User:CubixThree|CubixThree]]. In it, you prepare dishes made with ingredients, similar to [[Chef]], however with o..." < 1550012056 93918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :often it presents the C++11 way, explains the drawbacks and then how C++14 improves it < 1550012079 243930 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 14 is more about fixing awkward stuff in 11, as opposed to a conceptual overhaul like 03 -> 11 < 1550012116 353968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what case is fscanf working differently? < 1550012214 786466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure of the exact example, but it's one of those cases when you need a bit of lookahead, like when with format "%g" you try to scan "3.00E-scow", or with format "%i" you try to scan "0xscow" < 1550012256 602145 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550012256 918786 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, those are actually cases when the read of the number succeeds... I dunno < 1550012260 834132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something related to that < 1550012446 839033 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that C++14 has polymorphic lambdas < 1550012448 523827 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty fancy < 1550012500 956386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12701 I think this is it < 1550012531 720126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1550012537 497563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of fanciness is the reason i wasn't using c++ < 1550012666 808765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh man, i just indexed into "counts[256]" with a char which turned out to be signed < 1550012669 836066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :your favorite bug < 1550012683 683944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that one < 1550012687 2139 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you doing? < 1550012705 164705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to look for strings matching a particular pattern < 1550012709 528483 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550012712 663783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in c for some reason < 1550012747 823931 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have avoided those problem by always using a & operator if a char value is used in that way, such as x&255 or some other number < 1550012779 523736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is avoiding the problem by thinking about the problem. < 1550012791 182609 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there should be part of the C spec which specifies stronger guarantees on things where the only reason for crazy behavior is compatibility with ancient machines < 1550012794 838984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem was that I didn't think about it. If I had I'd've taken care of it. < 1550012814 490793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then compilers can support this as a language variant < 1550012839 787134 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc at least warns on indexing w/ signed char < 1550012859 917421 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you trying to write a program without thinking of the program? < 1550012862 330565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine didn't. < 1550012878 254905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should've used -Wall for this 20-line throwaway program. < 1550012885 445485 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wall always < 1550012890 234775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the program, just not of this particular edge case with char. < 1550012923 403869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Weffc++ < 1550012930 751328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i add -Weffc++ when compiling in c mode < 1550012942 832672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make it clear why i'm compiling in c mode < 1550012975 63740 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -Whatthe -fuck < 1550013002 822530 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -funroll-me-harder < 1550013040 735456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-wholesome < 1550013146 493462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I used to think the thing about C++ being an esolang was a joke, but now I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. < 1550013159 861359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the entire language but a pretty large part of it. < 1550013173 80302 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550013179 397948 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it is a joke < 1550013183 285463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because it's true < 1550013201 500694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is a hot mess < 1550013215 695734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing fancy template code appeals to the same twisted part of your mind that writing esolang code appeals to < 1550013217 615036 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550013243 431310 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1550013271 92718 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang skills have actual uses < 1550013290 850799 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have often described writing exploits as weaponized esoprogramming < 1550013292 272361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, rop is also an esolang, but that's a legitimate reason < 1550013294 664250 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least sometimes < 1550013295 859262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1550013311 835900 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird machines < 1550013327 704936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're a non-eso language designer, requiring your users to esolang seems like a scow move. < 1550013345 699933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550013361 58614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well templates are the quintessential feature that grew far beyond its original purpose < 1550013401 461406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more specifically, SFINAE < 1550013414 565353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinok < 1550013427 525231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinmk < 1550013463 824071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "SFINAE" means? < 1550013475 140068 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "Substitution Failure Is Not An Error" < 1550013506 864736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :substituion failure is naughty and exciting < 1550013508 811307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it means, if C++ tries to instantiate a template function and there is some error (type mismatch, missing method etc) then it will go on to the next overload rather than aborting compilation < 1550013552 770738 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550013553 561961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was intended simply so that unrelated template functions of the same name would not interfere < 1550013564 881395 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out to add a lot of power to template metaprogramming < 1550013595 240175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a version of gcc where substitution failure deletes your source file < 1550013599 3791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll teach people < 1550013630 312491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example it makes type traits and conditional overloads possible < 1550013631 511557 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://shaharmike.com/cpp/sfinae/ < 1550013646 231877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the go people had the right idea < 1550013649 960971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just codegen everything < 1550013652 61973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm < 1550013721 929597 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this substitution failure is not error is make sense, if there is a next overload (otherwise all of the accumulated errors should be displayed, since presumably it is unable to continue in such a case, if there isn't any to continue) < 1550013725 804951 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there is so much complexity in C++ from the fact that references aren't first class :( < 1550013737 428131 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah < 1550013739 698230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you think a language without lvalues makes sense < 1550013743 499333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you only have pointers < 1550013750 19357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo maybe < 1550013750 362369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1550013755 889691 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the advantages < 1550013771 760013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lvalues and pointers are almost the same thing but different < 1550013795 833176 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550013804 292398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sorts of complexity from that, which c++ tries to address with references? < 1550013818 406985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think BLISS does not use lvalues like C and BASIC, but rather it is the pointer, and to read it you must add the operator to read it. (Forth also needs explicit operators for read or write, although Forth is more flexible so you can make it possible to hide if you want to do.) < 1550013822 734885 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Templates are kinda fascinating. In that they were _designed_ for very simple use cases, but to make them fit in they managed to make them far more complex and general than is needed. < 1550013824 567517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in a language like c, there's a distinction between a value and a memory location that contains that value < 1550013835 865026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :c muddles it up a lot but it's there < 1550013849 54755 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep < 1550013867 378337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know, the "memory read" operation in c is the implicit coercion from lvalue to rvalue < 1550013870 544104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not * or whatever < 1550013906 573609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, BLISS does that. < 1550013909 898073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ALGOL 68. < 1550013910 137716 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that view in mind (and I don't think it's a bad one), what's * anyways? < 1550013913 755018 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A type conversion? < 1550013929 801514 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :converts a pointer rvalue to a lvalue, I suppose < 1550013931 425127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :* takes an rvalue-of-pointer-to-T to lvalue-of-T < 1550013949 309016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pointer is a location of a thing in memory. An lvalue is a thing that has a location in memory. < 1550013972 318791 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, it kinda is a type conversion. < 1550013977 862565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also http://slbkbs.org/ski-mercury.txt < 1550013981 984298 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though with an rvalue to lvalue conversion in there too. < 1550014015 88361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, given "struct A { int x, y; };", "e.y" has a different meaning depending on whether e is an lvalue or an rvalue. < 1550014029 843755 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinaeimk < 1550014032 523016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame the TGCEEC contest died out. < 1550014069 644679 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's funny people act as though C is a low-level language in some absolute sense, isn't it? < 1550014079 789337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfimkinae < 1550014091 178282 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or for that matter, that "low vs. high level" has any absolute meaning) < 1550014097 245173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The incomplete round had a one-shot entry (-fmax-errors=1) of <= 256 bytes of source that generated 1.5 gigabytes of error. < 1550014097 460996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a lower-level language than most languages people use? < 1550014111 847242 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but that's a relative statement. < 1550014141 937435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pft, with 256 bytes I want at least Ackermann levels of error. < 1550014203 717379 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A high-level assembler is higher level than raw machine code, yet lower than C. < 1550014229 689350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but "high-level" and "low-level" aren't really precise terms anyway. < 1550014259 370282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinmkimk < 1550014286 331396 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also different kind of assembly language for different computers (and VMs), and also different assemblers have different features for macros and so on. < 1550014315 574862 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which assemblers do you like? < 1550014326 279312 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Fair < 1550014354 886784 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, do you prefer Intel or AT&T syntax? < 1550014371 959169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have used MMIXAL, and otherwise mainly assemblers I either wrote myself (e.g. the MIXPC assembler, and Glasm) or modified for my use (e.g. MagicKit) < 1550014397 529023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 syntax, obviously, hth < 1550014398 549315 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: got a link to that? I'm gonna be AFK but I'd love to see it. < 1550014412 892530 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Knowing zzo38, the answer is "neither" whenever you present two common choices. < 1550014464 55530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had a single-use halting oracle, what would you ask it? < 1550014534 609593 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a way to use a single-use halting oracle to get a more general solution. < 1550014554 771146 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was my first idea too < 1550014556 505112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: https://tgceec.tumblr.com/ was the site. < 1550014759 332166 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550015199 2506 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550015223 155833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have opinion of XYZABCDE.ZZT game and possibly the sequel (and possibly sequel of the sequel)? At the end of the first one the main character's wing is fixed, but the operetta house has been destroyed by Giant Who Hate Liberty Bell March. The sequel might not be ZZT; in that case, perhaps any magic diamonds you have had by the end of the first one, are now worthless < 1550015340 88368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I would recommend yasm if you want an assembler for x86 < 1550015371 78341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes'm < 1550015400 525126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not used modern x86 assembly language < 1550015428 524911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like the Mill? < 1550015452 567807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been unable to find much information about Mill last time I checked < 1550015487 604154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately most information is in videos. < 1550015574 487727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever seen an electrocardiograph machine that had a built-in CRT display? < 1550015587 436622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like MMIX < 1550015730 93005 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550015857 234631 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550015867 365685 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life