< 1550448002 953638 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in < 1550448012 767088 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am I think I understand JavaScript, I think < 1550448044 373177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I had to learn how JavaScript OO worked to write the The Waterfall Model interpreter < 1550448045 854779 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550448053 203027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1550448062 413253 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1550448067 632819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to understand when you realise that x.prototype does not, despite appearances, give you access to the prototype of x < 1550448071 59443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just avoid the eso parts of javascript when you wrote code? < 1550448078 669725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to do it properly < 1550448084 435840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1550448087 491026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was the sort of project where OO was helpful anyway < 1550448088 331656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1550448097 328995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of in the same situation about ruby < 1550448101 164958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up trying to understand it now < 1550448110 132542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.prototype accesses the prototype of new objects constructed using the function x. To get the prototype of x itself, you must use Object.getPrototypeOf(x) instead. < 1550448114 97362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1550448120 965542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruby 1.8 has the advantage that it has a very easy to read only implementation < 1550448129 414003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that language is crazy < 1550448142 823234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if it's crazier than javascript or not, because I know too little about javascript < 1550448145 953694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's crazy enough < 1550448163 138845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript is more hurried than crazy < 1550448184 207704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's crazy because of the object model too, the basis it's built over, not just because of something in the library < 1550448184 939316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally written in a ridiculously short space of time to meet a deaddline < 1550448191 307068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For C: "An implementation may give zero -- a sign, or may leave [it] unsigned. Wherever such values are unsigned, any requirements -- to retrieve the sign shall produce an unspecified sign, and any requirement to set the sign shall be ignored." "On implementations that represent a signed zero but do not treat negative zero consistently in arithmetic operations, the `copysign` functions regard the sign of < 1550448197 270339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero as positive." < 1550448204 121556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS's object model is unusual but not unforgivable, although it would do with better terminology < 1550448222 531604 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550448223 935812 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550448228 250693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess copysign has two purposes: to extract a sign, and to set a sign < 1550448228 457556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but these days we have ieee floats almost everywhere < 1550448233 545006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both got merged into a single function < 1550448238 513121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wanted to ask < 1550448260 770636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did smalltalk originally call methods "method", or did the "method" name got popularized later, like with java or something? < 1550448279 699163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering because of the "subprogram, procedure, subroutine, function, method" synonym thing < 1550448307 822100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I should be able to answer that myself < 1550448322 964295 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the scanned original smalltalk book on my hard drive < 1550448329 235236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(got it from the internet) < 1550448335 599856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't Smalltallk generally use the word "message"? < 1550448352 471384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been learning Smalltalk again recently for work, because I wanted a mathematical model of OO languages < 1550448373 496592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've been basically developing a semantics of Smalltalk, because in every case where Java doesn't work like Smalltalk, I wish (for the purpose of proving things about it) it did < 1550448396 418601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might also use the word "method" as well, in the sense that a method is the thing that is activated when an object gets a message. < 1550448408 211462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I still think that merging the program and interpreter was an incredibly bad move and is the reason that Smalltalk never caught on < 1550448419 240962 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least OASYS calls all of the functions "methods", although all of them (other than the init method) must be called on an object, but it doesn't care what class of the object; the same methods are used for all classes. So, it look like unusual that they call it "method" if it is the same for all objects, to me. < 1550448458 402509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C got the "message" word from Smalltalk, I think. < 1550448462 56146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think that having no compile-time type checking is a mistake < 1550448465 590931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it's the obvious word to use < 1550448481 257489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: apparently they're called both "method" and "message", < 1550448487 903955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the prototype inheritance in JavaScript is good, even though, some people don't like it < 1550448491 650620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"method" on the side of the class that defines them, "message" when you call them < 1550448502 819467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like how some people use "parameter" vs "argument" < 1550448535 619918 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but my question was more about the history, not what the terminology is now < 1550448553 232017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait what? < 1550448563 932110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you're not, like, making feather for work, are you? < 1550448571 728459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't worry < 1550448576 900446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good] < 1550448590 460531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's correct, yes < 1550448598 479596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've put up with the weirdnesses of Java for this long, the points over Smalltalk that make it worse than Feather don't really bother me in comparison < 1550448643 949355 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: merging the program and interpreter => do you mean merging the interpreter with the integrated development environment? because APL did that and got popular. admittedly that was in the dark ages. < 1550448670 309406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C standard uses the parameter/argument words that way, though also has "actual parameter" as a deprecated synonym for "argument", i.e., an "expression in the comma-separated list bounded by the parentheses in a function call expression" (or the equivalent for a function-like macro). < 1550448698 459533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, in most Smalltalk interpretations, you start with a running interpreter/IDE that's basically set up to be a debugger on itself, and you write the program by editing it in-place < 1550448708 836040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Likewise, "formal argument" is mentioned as a deprecated synonym for "parameter", the other thing.) < 1550448712 895077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C have a word for the K&R style parameter type declarations? < 1550448723 401742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :k&r style is tg < 1550448738 352595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right. but isn't that sort of an optional part of smalltalk, in that you can have a modern implementation that doesn't do that? < 1550448742 566837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, if you stuck to writing things that were clearly separable from the existing interpreter, you coul distinguish them < 1550448757 720177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the designers of Smalltalk apparently don't think so; I hope they are incorrect, though < 1550448769 249304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you do want to have an interactive debugger, then it would become part of the program, like it does with perl or lua or ruby, < 1550448779 52819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1550448798 868065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to choose to not have an interactive debugger at all < 1550448834 845857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The whole set of them is called "a declaration list", though that's obviously meaningful only if you already have a function definition as the context. < 1550448838 470247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that kind of build in APL or smalltalk stopped spreading when the unix philosophy of files and toolboxes took over < 1550448856 90988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's obviously some inertia, but still < 1550448868 454848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the declarator includes an identifier list [i.e., the list of parameters without types], the types of the parameters shall be declared in a following declaration list." < 1550448917 959136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what actually happened, AFAICT, is that Smalltalk continued to be spread like that but ended up dying out as a result < 1550448936 766997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people rightfully rejected the approach < 1550448968 872557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one example in the C99 rationale of a function that can only be defined in the K&R style: `int f(arr, len) size_t len; int arr[len]; { ... }` < 1550448990 141439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but in that case we have to consider why APL didn't die out, and perhaps also prolog < 1550449035 247173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, I think even lisp counts < 1550449037 655974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't write `int f(int arr[len], size_t len) { ... }` because `len` isn't in scope for the variable-length array. Or... well, in *that* case it could be declared just as a pointer. So maybe it was `int (*arr)[len]` instead in the example. < 1550449040 959842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most major Prologs nowadays work by having a program that's used to initialise an interactive interpreter with definitions < 1550449043 948808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then before unix and operating systems, every programming language was like that < 1550449064 641349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if you develop a Prolog program within the interpreter rather than outside, you can do a simple `listing.` and get an output showing you the program that you wrote < 1550449081 691274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a gcc extension that lets you do that, I think < 1550449101 708670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe `int f(size_t len; int arr[len], size_t len) { … }` < 1550449106 887581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not because APLs changed: J is still sort of old style in that the interpreter tries to be primarily an intercative development environment, though at least it reads and writes OS files, including scripts from them < 1550449141 207658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the example was: `void f(double a[*][*], int n); void f(a, n) int n; double a[n][n]; { /* ... */ }` < 1550449156 816219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, matlab and maple and mathematica also primarily want to work that way, and I think mathematica got popular late enough that it can't even use history as an excuse < 1550449174 545169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch < 1550449200 73390 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's actually a gcc extension for that sort of function < 1550449204 455897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was < 1550449244 594217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There was considerable debate about whether to maintain the current lexical ordering rules for variable length array parameters in function definitions. -- The possibility of allowing the scope of parameter `n` to extend to the beginning of the parameter-type-list was explored (relaxed lexical ordering), which would allow the size of parameter `a` to be defined in terms of parameter `n`, and could help < 1550449250 585056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert a Fortran library routine into a C function. Such a change to the lexical ordering rules is not considered to be in the 'Spirit of C,' however. This is an unforeseen side effect of Standard C prototype syntax." < 1550449291 305640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've uppercased "Spirit" in the original, which makes me think of it as some sort of conscious personification thing. < 1550449291 352374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i void f(int a[static 2], int b[a[0]][a[1]]) < 1550449492 69949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, the thing I wrote is valid C < 1550449528 903848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's valid even without the static. < 1550449555 114570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot you could have arbitrary expressions in there. < 1550449557 613598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean "accepted by my compiler" valid, or proper valid? Because I don't think it is. < 1550449559 581632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the i,i a syntax error? < 1550449576 378257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it is. < 1550449576 604564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i was metasyntax < 1550449582 421508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonky, though. < 1550449592 106774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's accepted by a compiler but I also think it's valid. < 1550449602 626700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it not be? < 1550449608 331912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I didn't think far enough. < 1550449616 45854 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so in that case, are you planning to implement a new OO language that takes the good ideas from smalltalk, but not the ditstribution model? < 1550449631 276870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some but not all of the forth interpreters are distributed in that bad way I think < 1550449638 844782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right now I can't do that for the same reason I don't work on ayacc < 1550449639 898787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `a[0]` part is just documentative, but sure. < 1550449647 993791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the a[1] part? < 1550449657 231352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that part's actually meaningful. < 1550449663 425393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? can't you just make such a language for work? < 1550449665 230418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have it backwards? < 1550449666 803073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's equivalent to `int (*b)[a[1]]`. < 1550449698 522026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you said you learned the semantics of smalltalk for work < 1550449716 251055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I can't type "smalltalk". my fingers keep typing "smallk" and then I have to backspace) < 1550449764 405058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever get to do that, I hope it won't turn to ruby < 1550449795 43760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, it's not something that I've been asked to do, but it's obviously connected, so work would end up owning the copyright to it despite likely not having much use for it < 1550449804 32075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the resulting languages would be somewhat wasted, probably < 1550449807 365103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see] < 1550449819 388362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe not directly, I could probably buy the rights for it off them, but it'd be way more bother than it's worth) < 1550449834 394101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, right. < 1550449858 280063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So all the sizes except the *first* one are used. < 1550449866 744274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, rust seems to reflect a few of the things that I don't like in ruby, like how the name resolution rules are sometimes really weird just to make the syntax seem a bit nicer for the common cases < 1550449871 867820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I thought it was the last one. < 1550449872 361713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is much worse though, mind you < 1550449882 864737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: didn't Rust change the name resolution rules recently? < 1550449891 619126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if you dislike the old ones or the new ones or both < 1550449891 886107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there was a little change, yes < 1550449906 385606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the remark applies both before and after < 1550450665 787024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550451013 53020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` allquotes | tail -2 < 1550451013 810325 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1330) I don't care for the bf backend as long as it doesn't make the rest of ayacc harder to sue \ 1331) ...this is the first prime number finder I've ever written which ran out of memory before finding 3 < 1550451040 839670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it was removed again < 1550451553 221781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550451606 381003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1550451613 965314 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:stume//A stume cowears and goatears you. That is the main reason why the often look so ackward. \ me//Me is a proud member of the tEaM. \ rum//The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat \ accusative//Only evil people use the accusative. \ swedish//Swedish is the language of fine cuisine. < 1550451637 982757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget rum < 1550451639 493618 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1550451649 630370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso: rum hth < 1550451924 946025 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550451957 643685 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550451979 480449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I removed the quote I added < 1550451998 992863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1550452000 674194 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:422) cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. \ 1109) zzo38 [~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: I need the stats for the small leech, not the big one. So, if you write it on here while I am gone then when I return I will check.] \ 822) my current laptop basically works though it can even play 8 < 1550452001 802623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1550452002 570809 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:year old video games as long as it is not raining in the game \ 647) A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. \ 240) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1550453646 670641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I remember this one http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/ccache.png < 1550453666 312282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a fun lesson about computer architecture < 1550454041 914375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Prolog or some other logic language express recursion in terms of unification somehow? < 1550454115 65965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I tried «A = f(A)» in GNU Prolog, it apparently constructed the resulting infinite term correctly but was unable to print it < 1550454197 982489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm wondering about writing recursive rules without explicit recursion using this kind of trick. < 1550454222 922223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't there a specific library function that can print such things? hmm, let me check < 1550454240 136256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, to do that you'd have to /assert/ such a term, let me try that < 1550454267 360030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently attempting to do so sent the Prolog interpreter into an infinite loop < 1550454349 493384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1550454354 862702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you have to assert such a term? < 1550454368 983294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just A = f(A), write_foo(A) < 1550454386 836206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in order to do a recursive calculation < 1550454389 863531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to be such a library function though < 1550454394 750409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in gnu prolog < 1550454402 936661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use a non-recursive predicate to inspect more than a finite number of nesting levels of a term < 1550454418 719213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's looking for a way to lift the recursive term to a recursive computation < 1550454436 217642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way I could think of to do that was to assert one, but GNU Prolog doesn't seem to like that. < 1550454441 355003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1550454479 257967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here it is < 1550454524 683830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in SWI prolog, http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=termrw says that write_term(A, [cycles(true)]) should write it in a finite representation < 1550454567 396915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that write_term(A, [max_depth(10)]) will print a truncated representation < 1550454598 999780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a simple word for "all except the first", e.g. in the context of iterations of a loop? I guess maybe "subsequent" sort of works. < 1550454647 232664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think "subsequent" during any particular iteration would mean all the rest, but before the first iteration it could be ambiguous. < 1550454650 168193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"subsequent" works if you used "first" earlier < 1550454682 926723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious about the context of this because I was trying to figure out a style of loop a while ago. < 1550454725 239554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, are you sure in that thing? < 1550454726 821880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550454774 788166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A = A + 1, B is A." got me a segfault < 1550454788 150883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg < 1550454790 648219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess isn't particularly surprising < 1550454792 261006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that should happen < 1550454798 305780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you're doing something right when you segfault the interpreter. < 1550454801 884155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1550454805 616282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is in fact a recursive calculation done entirely using unifications, though < 1550454806 404860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an out of memory < 1550454808 420102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be fine < 1550454813 691726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a stack overflow < 1550454821 548944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550454872 542792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's possible to translate untyped lambda calculus with just common prolog stuff and copy_term, so can't you use that to write recusion using a Y combinator? < 1550454876 198906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbounded recursion should probably be illegal. < 1550454883 356405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's cheating, though, because 'is' is recursive internally < 1550454913 152093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have one of those range-based for loops, and I needed to do something at the start of all but the first iteration, so I was contemplating doing something like http://ix.io/1Bll/cpp for it. < 1550454915 247270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is why when I'm emperor I'll ban both Java and recursion So all stack traces will be short < 1550454916 590610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how do you translate \x.x(1)? < 1550454940 561567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you able to do it at all but the last iteration instead? < 1550454948 893203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you need a special case for when the range has zero elements? for that sort of thing, you normally do < 1550454951 714657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me look up the docs of olvashato, that's where I figured out the translation (actually slightly before I made olvashato, but I used it there and documented it) < 1550454953 532012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should say why I'm asking. < 1550454967 517041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a very common pattern which is awkward to express in most languages. < 1550454983 149460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you're iterating over an array, say, but you want to do something for each index and each element. < 1550454988 369492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but the special case is entirely different, so I just have that as an if (thing.empty()) before. < 1550454996 437392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the most common place this comes up for me is when you're trying to implement "join" (i.e. join one string using another string) with iterative code < 1550455006 456612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An n-element array has n+1 indices, so it's awkward. < 1550455019 727561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to add the separator either before every element but the first, or after every element but the last < 1550455046 213491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's a little different because you don't want to do either the first or the last. But it's related. < 1550455092 953466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a non-array: How would you write code to insert into a prefix tree? < 1550455095 740657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :example < 1550455129 963822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally when working with trees I use recursion < 1550455141 283009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you have struct Node { struct Node *next[256]; bool end; };, and you want to write insert: void insert_node(struct Node **n, const unsigned char *s); < 1550455151 799784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion runs into the same-ish issue. < 1550455163 468348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually wrote this code for NH4 a while back < 1550455166 179837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tail recursion anyway so it's kind of silly. < 1550455185 830980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (\x.(x 1)) translates to fun(X, R, (copy_term(X, fun(1, R, B)), B)) < 1550455199 856318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go: http://nethack4.org/latest/nethack4/libnethack_common/src/trietable.c < 1550455214 817414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Olvashat%C3%B3#Prolog_output < 1550455215 435197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An empty tree is represented as a null pointer, by the way. < 1550455217 776474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't appear to be any special case < 1550455251 652339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, I guess the "if (key == 0)" case is the special case you're thinking of? < 1550455260 510749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so. < 1550455276 718417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wrote it iteratively instead of recursively it would be clearer. < 1550455346 8625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :void insert_node(struct Node **n, const unsigned char *s) { for (; ; s++) { if (!*n) *n = new_node; if (!*s) break; n = &(*n)->next[*s]; } (*n)->end = true; } < 1550455388 129066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/t2n.olv compiled to http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/t2n.pl is actually an example that does recursion that way: the implementation of the loop function doesn't name the loop function itself < 1550455397 58928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to run the thing before the break n+1 times and the thing after the break n times. < 1550455414 729486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK, so what you're doing is using a single predicate that holds the implementation of all the lambdas? < 1550455426 105871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1550455441 338105 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the implementation of the lambda is in the term that represents the lambda itself < 1550455446 647672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can call it from any predicate < 1550455479 769610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a different example, prefix sum: < 1550455480 793345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vec prefix_sum(vec a) { vec b; int sum = 0; for (auto it = a.begin(); ; ++it) { b.push_back(sum); if (it == a.end()) break; sum += *it; } return b; } < 1550455481 507413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a non-ground term < 1550455496 522238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a little too awkward for IRC one-liners, I think. < 1550455528 593686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, I see, you have unbound variables sitting by themselves in predicate implementations < 1550455535 949776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the step that I didn't realise was possible < 1550455542 176145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm still not sure that's possible < 1550455545 893809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and I never bind them, I only bind copies made with copy_term < 1550455567 168035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A = write(6), A. < 1550455568 783852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1550455570 287602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1550455587 128387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's logical that that works, but I didn't expect it to < 1550455598 173613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am not quite sure, but I think historical prolog required you to write call(A) instead of A there < 1550455607 919010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all present prolog implementations seem to allow just A < 1550455624 671440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try A = write(6), call(A) if you prefer < 1550455637 51259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm happy when you include the eval statement < 1550455645 318367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have that I'm not surprised that lambda calculus exists < 1550455649 948903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this sort of "implicit eval" that bothers me < 1550455682 444341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out the general connection between trace(d monoidal categories) and fixed points, is the context of this Prolog thing. < 1550455686 818427 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but prolog has several other builtins that take code predicates < 1550455737 736507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if maplist can be implemented without library functions < 1550455748 848039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing no, you need at least copy_term (or something else that can be used to simulate it) < 1550455840 541948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. (A,B) and (A;B) and (A->B;C) and once(A) and apply(A,L) and \+A and findall(P,A,L) each try to call A at least once < 1550455889 6194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ',' is really fundamental, isn't it? < 1550455919 936393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :';' can be implemented using two definitions for the same predicate < 1550455925 185938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno, it might be because of its interaction with !, but without that I think it can be implemented < 1550455942 638521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can implement a new function that behaves just like , < 1550455947 560459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps some sort of continuation passing style would be possible to be able to do without ',', but you'd then need to rewrite every predicate to take a continuation argument < 1550455953 35572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in begin(A,B) :- A,B. < 1550455961 188436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, but that requires using ',' for the implementation < 1550455962 588526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can write begin(A,B) instead of (A,B) in programs < 1550455963 64487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are binary trees every a good idea, anyway? < 1550455973 130983 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can probably implement it using some other library function < 1550455973 507915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think they can be < 1550455990 867725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be an inefficient eso-implementation < 1550455996 463611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might break programs with ! < 1550455999 983679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you care about performance. < 1550456004 986321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got halfway through writing a generic tree library in Rust that can be used to implement arbitrary sorts of self-balancing (or not-so-self-balancing) trees < 1550456022 566235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh! I'm interested in that < 1550456027 988659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think some such structure is often going to be the best possibility for performance and a generic structure makes it easy to swap them out < 1550456034 912108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in that case, I'll let you know if I finish < 1550456042 159148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even remember why I stopped halfway through < 1550456044 279714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you almost always want a bigger branching factor than 2, don't you? < 1550456060 132255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only vaguely remember the original reason, which I think was to write a fast But Is It Art? interpreter < 1550456066 536198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, 2 is probably too small < 1550456069 854501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will it have both non-keyed trees, haskell Seq style, and keyed trees, Map style? < 1550456103 85713 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550456113 226086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's the notion of an "index" and elements in trees are always stored in index order, but it's possible that when you add a new element, all the existing indexes move to make room for it < 1550456129 216564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Map-style tree, the indexes are just the keys < 1550456139 743574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Seq-style tree, they could be, e.g., the equivalent of array indexes < 1550456162 586058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need different interfaces for the two cases, although a lot of code can be shared < 1550456170 874864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So comparison sorts may not be that great, because you usually have more information about your data than binary comparisons. < 1550456186 633392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is binary search similarly not that great? What are the alternatives? < 1550456235 298306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: things like Newton-Rahpson (I might have misspelled that) < 1550456290 6394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want something more general than array indexes, but sure < 1550456291 998707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you look at a small locality of the data, make a prediction about what function the data represents based on that, and then go directly to the entry that should contain the result if your prediction is correct < 1550456293 868539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds good < 1550456298 479967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, more general < 1550456304 206710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I meant for discrete, not a function, but that's an interesting analogy. < 1550456322 494658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know, a discrete example would presumably use similar techniques though < 1550456345 187717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of things like radix sort, which is a different kind of structure. < 1550456351 473008 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and will this support both trees with in-place mutation, and pure functional trees with cow nodes Haskell style? < 1550456352 261792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, your prediction normally isn't 100% correct but the idea is to get closer to your target than a binary search would, and also /realise/ you're closer to the target (so that you don't move massively far away with the next check) < 1550456359 772547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of differentiable structure can you put on typical data? < 1550456372 436915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: definitely < 1550456375 111980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1550456376 6888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's that "learned index structure" paper. < 1550456378 497252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting working copy-on-write was part of my motivation for this < 1550456402 966262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will you be using some Haskell libraries as a reference to get the implementation right? < 1550456406 633229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that book < 1550456421 679918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, I'm using some academic papers, and a core structure that's hopefully simple enough that it's obviously correct < 1550456425 178563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Okasaki book < 1550456442 539828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the Okasaki book is close enough to an academic paper, but sure < 1550456458 371518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one found that it's the one that explained how red-black trees work the best < 1550456472 383378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are fully persistent data structures even good twh < 1550456514 205578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for some things, yes. < 1550456526 125363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. you might want to store all intermediate states of a computer game < 1550456538 489318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want to store intermediate states you don't need full persistence. < 1550456554 81493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm planning to implement it as 2-3-4 rather than red-black because they're equivalent and 2-3-4 fits into the general structure better < 1550456555 2215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need it if you want to be able to fork a past state, or something. < 1550456556 179779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to store them shared, rather than writing a full copy in each step < 1550456571 853490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might end up slower, though, despite being identically shaped < 1550456579 654783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want this if you want to step both backwards and forwards when reviewing the game < 1550456585 664143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you only want to step forwards, then it's easier < 1550456591 954139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for BIIA? I'll presumably be forking a lot < 1550456592 878902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I expect 2-3-4 trees to be faster than red-black trees? < 1550456612 816385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is BIIA? < 1550456615 761703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, is a 2-3-4 tree like a B tree? < 1550456625 430335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art%3F < 1550456644 998707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's basically a tree where nodes are binary or have 3 or 4 children, nodes can change dynamically < 1550456651 872062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: If you just want fast snapshots you don't need to have a fully persistent structure. < 1550456655 778669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's why you want this, backtracking for a BIIA implementation < 1550456657 645618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just put a timestamp on each thing or something. < 1550456662 26271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though why you want a BIIA implementation is unclear to me < 1550456687 700741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so yes, it's literally a sort of B-tree < 1550456699 931066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why /wouldn't/ I want a BIIA? implementation? < 1550456717 207141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's an existing one, but it's hard to be confident that it works < 1550456718 648741 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdsflwwjzquatnuc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550456723 644635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I do more or less understand how B-trees work, though there's quite some freedom in them, they can be implemented in different ways < 1550456744 727017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red-black trees are a binary encoding of 2-4 B-trees. < 1550456754 267078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The red–black tree is then structurally equivalent to a B-tree of order 4, with a minimum fill factor of 33% of values per cluster with a maximum capacity of 3 values. < 1550456763 119778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary trees are scow. You gotta at least fill a cache line. < 1550456828 923730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have values on the nodes (which you should do, otherwise how else will you know which side of the tree to look in for the comparison), they might fill the cache line if the values are large enough < 1550456851 251733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, though often the values are just pointers. < 1550456930 605526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I had a fun realisation: the basic structure of a generalised search tree is that each node contains some number of values for use as comparison pivots, plus some number of pointers to child nodes; and the set of comparison pivots is itself a structure you wish to search in < 1550456956 209839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this being Rust, with zero-cost abstractions and all, you can simply use the search tree interface you're working on to be generic over how the set of pivots is implemented < 1550456986 174114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc it probably wouldn't in practice be another tree, but I see no reason to rule that possibility out; I'm putting the same interface on things like sorted vectors anyway < 1550457009 603612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a similar (?) realization recently. < 1550457024 968503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each level of a B+ tree is an index for searching the next level. < 1550457048 123135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, if you have a sorted array, you can make a B+-style index for the first few levels, which are small. < 1550457163 737101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you want a nice testcase for backtracking? https://www.komal.hu/forum?a=to&tid=76&st=50&dr=1&sp=77#17868 on the chessboard, you want to put as few walls, each between two side-adjacent squares, to make it so there's exactly one way to pave the board with four-square L-tetrominos < 1550457188 260126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that problem sounds painful to solve < 1550457190 700239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy version is to prove that the solution with the four walls shown on that image is correct, harder version is to find that solution < 1550457202 319246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it sort of is, yes < 1550457211 865262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how backtracking would help to verify that a potential answer was correct (if perhaps not minimal) < 1550457214 196005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved the easy version with prolog once < 1550457238 580161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I need to remember to not attempt to read Hungarian when I see it < 1550457248 623761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person who found the solution said he wrote a program to test every four-wall solution < 1550457253 792391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some of the words there appear to be loanwords so it's not totally fruitless < 1550457280 800030 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can read them, the only spoilers are that (1) there's a four wall solution, which I told you, and (2) the image showing that solution, which is an image < 1550457296 480290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I can get an idea of the sense by looking for words that are similar to words I already know < 1550457298 640165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are also some worse solutions earlier, but I don't think they're not spoilers < 1550457317 847859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that works better in a well-written text than in an informal web forum < 1550457321 240813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, not because of spoilers, just because Hungarian's vocabulary doesn't have much in common with that of the European languages I know < 1550457353 495250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so trying to read it won't lead to much understanding < 1550457379 65229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if I see text in, say, Spanish or Italian, I can often make a decent guess at what it's saying despite not knowing the languages < 1550457382 126108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says though that the program ran too slow to test every four-wall solution < 1550457393 491565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he found a solution among the ones he tested < 1550457411 100063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprising to me that you only need four < 1550457422 619094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was surprising to us too < 1550457427 313823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess the walls are being brute-forced and backtracking is only being used for the wall placement < 1550457428 695542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to me at elast < 1550457434 805820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this seems like the sort of program on which you use a constraint solver < 1550457441 786354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a backtracking algorithm < 1550457469 84193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how we solved Polarium over on tasvideos.org, in the end; simply convert it into a boolean satisfaction problem and run it through a SAT solver < 1550457484 497860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the walls are brute-forced except you should use the symmetry of the board, and yes, I wrote it using a constraint solver, it seems to help, but it's probably still possible with a clever backtracking solver without constraint < 1550457495 127461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had the leading solution before that, based on first proving things about the problem, then using a backtracking algorithm through the possibilities that hadn't been proved impossible) < 1550457568 782583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarium... that's not the Game Boy puzzle game with the rotating gates and with blocks of various shapes pushed into holes, right? < 1550457577 608615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look up what it is < 1550457587 604473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's a DS puzzle game < 1550457594 90549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that one < 1550457619 693532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are as follows: you have a board made of squares, most are white or black, although there's a grey border around the edges; you may treat grey tiles as white or black, whichever works for your solution < 1550457642 17150 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550457657 93063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must draw a path made of squares, starting and ending anywhere on the board, which only moves orthogonally from one square to the next, and which doesn't use the same square twice < 1550457679 551773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for each horizontal line of squares, the path must either go through all the white squares on that line and no black squares, or else all the black squares on that line and no white squares < 1550457696 59963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550457781 871468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting late though, so good night < 1550457795 470268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550458134 814082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1550458729 836978 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am playing a roguelike game called "We are Hejickle", for NES/Famicom < 1550458850 98646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are runes that you cannot step on, but that your opponents can step on. There are also statues that you can see past but that nobody can step on. You cannot move diagonally but other people can. < 1550460782 259632 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imode.tech/projects/modal.html < 1550461944 89850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Callbacks are annoying for several reasons. One of them is that you can't early-exit from them. < 1550461956 56827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I shouldn't fizzie: that, I just saw my tab with the Subsequent code. < 1550461999 987917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still looking for the programming language thing akin to a lambda/block but that can't be stored and supports more operations. < 1550462012 373382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of hope the answer isn't "macro". < 1550462471 963284 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550463908 795512 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by can't be stored? what sorts of operations? < 1550464231 295065 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550464595 351320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Early exit is the most obvious one. < 1550464621 133988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could still sort of implement that as setjmp/continuations/exceptions/whatever. < 1550464637 884252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly operations that don't make sense at runtime at all, like changing the things that are in scope for a block. < 1550464666 982422 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by the last one < 1550464772 415377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is something like, if "if"/"while"/etc. were user-defined, such that you'd want them to generate the same code they do in C or whatever, what would the type of their arguments be? < 1550464784 569382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, something like "using namespace", for instance. < 1550464810 566501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"using(foo) { BODY }", where everything in BODY automatically does lookups in the namespace foo. < 1550464821 944690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also other things that affect what's in scope. < 1550466733 374825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have also want that "if", "while", etc are implemented as macros actually; maybe even something else < 1550466771 768793 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if not entirely defined as a macros, supporting a block code too somehow < 1550468635 99955 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550468903 469923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm those theorems for that single rotation CA actually do have simple proofs < 1550468962 261515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wasn't clear from the page whether e'd proved them logically or just enumerated all possibiliies. well at least the spaceship + single cell one.) < 1550469076 883144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu.*a < 1550469077 732935 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550469083 81721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu*a < 1550469083 798706 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​fugal//Fugals are fictitious flower parts. < 1550469096 611136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu*ia < 1550469097 454534 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550469109 865782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu*a$ < 1550469110 632930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550469113 547281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1550469117 173986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1550469143 605745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should be regex < 1550469197 149965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can people send commits to fshg directly instead of using HackEso twh < 1550469212 587534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a little contrary to the spirit of the thing. < 1550472244 482838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550474219 494870 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550474537 237391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like to put candles on the cake, but I prefer instead put the candles around it, and not making holes in it. But, many people like to make numbers, either put that many or use shapes of numbers. But, I thought another way can be, even if you have only straight candles, try to use roman numbers (although you might not know which way is forward, then, if placed on top of the cake instead of around) < 1550474546 400924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you will also need to get it to stand diagonally) < 1550474567 183586 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or horizontally, if it is forty or more) < 1550474863 445735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of some kind of Magic: the Gathering: Counter target spell if it was not cast by an opponent. < 1550474992 924005 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about having 40 cakes < 1550475012 231613 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my birthday this week < 1550475018 919351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I have 31 cupcakes < 1550475120 177867 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have forty small cakes, or enough storage room, then perhaps it might do (especially if not everyone want the same cake, you might have more than one kind) < 1550475167 407061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gregor < 1550475168 421383 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. < 1550475171 168062 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I baked a chocolate cake on Saturday < 1550475176 278847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like "Manifest target spell" and/or "Counter target spell if it was not cast by an opponent"? < 1550475193 202131 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think I will eat a bit more right now < 1550475203 610704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to manifest a spell < 1550475205 31496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo can i have some cake twh < 1550475216 901728 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1550475253 472047 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Put it face-down in the battlefield. If it would be a creature when face-up, then it can be used like morph with their mana cost. < 1550475288 968237 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you can get to SF before we eat it all < 1550475317 749076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all about baking now < 1550475401 320863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you all about baking before < 1550475440 43763 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I can do two kinds of baking at the same time < 1550475454 476987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bake not lest ye be baked < 1550475504 31675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cathy made the frosting on this cake < 1550475509 268125 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Alyssa helped us eat it < 1550475513 751849 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was a team effort < 1550476853 184821 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550477020 91354 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550477480 325484 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550477639 991108 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550478436 635593 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550479797 694831 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 633 seconds < 1550480872 318552 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550480912 904817 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550481740 568137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550481806 759939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: roman numerals from straight candles => could work, but a drawback is that when you light the candles, the molten wax would definitely drop straight onto the cake. < 1550481868 750741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for that M:tG thing, the card Nix is somewhat close to that < 1550482063 218300 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious and standard way to make numbers out of candles is unary < 1550482080 532438 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with roman numerals is they aren't rotation invariant < 1550482100 571616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1550482126 973189 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would want a rotation invariant number system, perhaps a core regular polygon in the middle (triangle = 3, square = 4, ..) then some outer attachments < 1550482198 351191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: lottery balls and UNO cards are printed numbers in a rotation-invariant system, where the digit 6 is underlined < 1550482248 2442 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wuold be possible to use polygons as digits in a line, with the point upwards to indicate the direction < 1550482267 638916 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so triangle triangle square might mean 334 and it could be done in base 7 < 1550482309 693483 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or base 5 < 1550482489 36121 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if they're nested rather than arrayed in a line < 1550483187 229917 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550483218 637433 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550483360 157829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I know of Nix, and I also invented Phyrexian Nix. However, what I mentioned above is a bit more general < 1550483567 978369 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1550483669 818295 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550483771 757921 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550484503 384587 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550484751 635940 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550484909 671954 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550485016 352043 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550486380 428102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550487746 834227 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550490351 731795 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550490649 305137 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forty" is the only English name for a number whose letters are sorted alphabetically. < 1550491327 827693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550491472 834773 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550491472 916915 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550492249 729716 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550492717 941564 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550493739 62429 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drphdkkdzouvojbn JOIN :#esoteric < 1550494003 372085 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550494825 572561 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: are there other languages with a unique number with the corresponding property? < 1550494917 243460 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't know < 1550494960 876008 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "deux" in French < 1550494973 959905 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "cinq" is also in alphabetical order < 1550494995 104663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: do you want to be a ghost biopsy adept? < 1550495000 221947 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not unique < 1550495027 514767 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I don't think that'd be the right profession for me < 1550495055 78014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map sort ["ghost","biopsy","adept"] -- it felt right though < 1550495056 708553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ghost","biopsy","adept"] < 1550495118 627258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :German has three, as far as I can see. (eins, acht, elf) < 1550495125 127250 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's why you used "adept" < 1550495160 795028 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( almost below forty ) < 1550495334 363113 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could be a loopy hippy(sic!). "knotty" is nice too. < 1550495368 305142 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map sort ["clobber", "disappear", "busted", "amylase"] -- let's just check that map sort works < 1550495370 61335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["bbcelor","aadeipprs","bdestu","aaelmsy"] < 1550495641 675048 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dirty effort < 1550495666 745220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, that vocabulary doesn't look big enough for writing a novel :) < 1550495873 625468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls /usr/share/dict < 1550495874 287609 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550496228 938075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, you can't use "the" < 1550496350 252476 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A billowy abbess bhors my accent < 1550496561 752458 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dictionary says < 1550496563 197796 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :be am been is an in do for him it not as at by got go his know or 'em all best my no now any first how most begin city lost lot ably act add ago air allow almost art bit boy buy cos cost door foot guy hit low accept bill box cell cry deep effort fill film fit floor fly hi hot loss < 1550496571 226406 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :An almost empty bin < 1550496578 849948 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :access adopt ah aah aim below bet blow cent cop copy deny dry egg empty fix flow hill hmm hm host nor TV ad ally beer beg bell belt bent boot boss bow chill chip chop dirt dirty forty ghost hip ill joy < 1550496589 273366 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accent annoy ass ay bee beef belly boost chin cow deem deer dim dip dot ego fist fry glory glow hint hop inn knot loop opt ace ant apt aw ax berry buzz cosy defy den eh envy ex flu fort fox hiss < 1550496604 216974 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbey adept ail app beep beet bellow biopsy boo chilly clot coop cot DJ deft deity dent e.g. flop flux gin gloss glossy hippy hoop IQ ivy loot lorry moor mop mow MP oops pry abet abort abs affix aft airy allot alloy amp billow bin blot booty cello chi chimp coo co-opt coy CPU demo dew dill din eel elm err fin fir floppy GI hoot jot moot moss op ow < 1550496604 350926 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ox < 1550496625 165401 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those lists aren't truncated, they just look like that because words starting with letters late in the alphabet are very rare in them < 1550496634 635817 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ammo fills my chit < 1550496638 951131 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbot abhor accost ado aegis afoot ammo beefy befit bio biz bop bossy bot boxy cert choppy crux filly fizz floss foxy fuzz gill gilt gist git goo gory hilly hilt HQ imp loo mossy nosy tux abuzz adder aglow alms arty bevy bitty boor Celt chino chintz chow cloy coot dewy dint dis ditty divvy emu knotty loopy lop moo < 1550496646 991814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbess achy billowy chit choosy clop dory dotty filmy fop goop lox mot mu sty adz beery chippy dippy eff emo gimp gimpy glop guv abbe bey deist dhow ditz finny gloppy bloop blowy < 1550496782 350039 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"buy art for low cost now" < 1550496981 84251 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I add the list of such words up to TV to a wisdom? nah, probably no < 1550496981 435104 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :aegilops < 1550496994 724190 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have wisdom/ance and wisdom/can't for such lists < 1550497009 918620 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aegilops" would be a good name for an esolang < 1550497101 204840 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should figure out what the best collation order of the English alphabet is to get a nice vocabulary < 1550497169 5688 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 26! possible orderings < 1550497187 222476 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming we want to do this letterwise < 1550497192 738043 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [1..26] < 1550497194 494569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 403291461126605635584000000 < 1550497201 267839 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fairly sizeable number < 1550497227 107532 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: sure < 1550497230 606040 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although we can immediately rule out any word with a non-consecutibe repeated letter < 1550497403 556824 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: English mostly has short words, so those aren't too common: < 1550497405 55835 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :were that did hath knowingly known these canning better liking oneness otherness there thinking thought timeless wellness which willful willfully because before downed even evenly giving here lifeless lifelike little lesser manliness meanness needed needless needlessly newness people stillness tellingly through useful usefully usefulness useless wh < 1550497405 200955 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ere again against although though always American anything away become became < 1550497444 166585 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some plurals and other infections < 1550497455 455719 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that" sucks of course < 1550497556 259810 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't even the odds < 1550499600 760401 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxqcplpzzjcwvuxb PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure to get yclept in there < 1550500265 975124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofTechnique: unlikely to happen because 'y' is just too attractive to put near the end of the order. < 1550500332 807235 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's not that clear. it depends on whether you want to use "you". < 1550500387 866526 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, you can't have all three of "they", "you", and "those" < 1550500406 62106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thou shan't < 1550501523 305357 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drphdkkdzouvojbn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550502386 276237 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a tetris game for the Game Boy that shows the full 20 rows or more, either by showing more than one row in a tile, or by making you rotate the screen? < 1550502480 982973 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x7 pixel squares should be doable, I think. the graphics would be terrible, but still. < 1550504383 797097 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/writer.cc sockets of SOCK_SEQPACKET type, wow. that's something you don't see often. > 1550504566 591021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59931&oldid=59658 5* 03Helen 5* (+16) 10/* Bitwise Instructions */ Added stuff about functionality < 1550505950 61516 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the distribution of phonemes in English less zipfy or more zipfy than the distribution of letters? < 1550505995 669269 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550506095 747969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the distribution of letters is particularly Zipfian. < 1550506102 80674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The distribution of *words* is.) < 1550506391 502725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I still had my university account, I'd crunch some phoneme frequencies out of one of our English ASR training sets. < 1550506543 430570 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550507358 375097 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550507953 396912 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zcukvradsqoccvfy QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550508414 790633 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550508698 766288 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550508856 707948 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550509066 246865 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550510357 199804 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550510609 537119 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1550511950 984315 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512143 751836 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512154 832050 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550512297 550750 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550512321 814361 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512352 945239 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550512588 953979 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512856 943571 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550512944 461536 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550513130 733338 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550514036 282071 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550514473 941785 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550514577 239293 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550515270 526714 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550515440 136879 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550515925 787505 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550516251 750122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1550517893 475321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59932 5* 03Orby 5* (+2165) 10Created initial page > 1550517910 43343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59933&oldid=59932 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10Removing extraneous whitespace > 1550518054 951372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59934&oldid=59933 5* 03Orby 5* (+459) 10 > 1550518113 272859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59935&oldid=59934 5* 03Orby 5* (+46) 10/* See also */ > 1550518146 563814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59936&oldid=59935 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Introduction */ > 1550518312 288909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59937&oldid=51743 5* 03Orby 5* (+152) 10 > 1550518333 472178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59938&oldid=59937 5* 03Orby 5* (+11) 10 > 1550518355 82450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59939&oldid=59938 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10 < 1550519493 993773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1550519745 882700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59940&oldid=59936 5* 03Orby 5* (+3) 10 > 1550519879 521478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59941&oldid=59940 5* 03Orby 5* (-20) 10/* See also */ > 1550519947 466235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59942&oldid=59941 5* 03Orby 5* (-4) 10/* Branching */ > 1550519975 986555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59943&oldid=59942 5* 03Orby 5* (+5) 10/* Branching */ < 1550520110 879594 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igfvvlbzmucmbjll JOIN :#esoteric < 1550520309 33838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re 2-3-4 tree, so you are using a low arity because you primarily care about persistant (cow) nodes? that makes sense, but for the non-persistent case a larger arity could be better > 1550520547 461078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59944&oldid=59907 5* 03Orby 5* (+18) 10/* Brainfuck derivatives */ < 1550520645 319182 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fwbsfhvwuvefkneq QUIT :Quit: removing from IRC because user idle on matrix for 30+ days < 1550520852 173364 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: fire's < 1550521047 744474 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550521249 503053 :grumble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric > 1550521699 682584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59945&oldid=59943 5* 03Orby 5* (+71) 10 > 1550521730 102361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59946&oldid=59945 5* 03Orby 5* (+8) 10/* Specification */ < 1550522178 315797 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1550522529 457669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59947&oldid=59946 5* 03Orby 5* (+52) 10/* Examples */ > 1550522638 683651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59948&oldid=59947 5* 03Orby 5* (+106) 10/* Specification */ > 1550522731 48231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59949&oldid=59926 5* 03Cortex 5* (+0) 10 < 1550522783 147759 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550522795 728225 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all! < 1550522896 187170 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone interested in working on a collection of quines in esolangs whose commands are English words (e.g. Ook!) to submit for National Novel Generation Month. The code that generates the book would be the book itself :) I don't think it's been done. < 1550522990 189679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but, you can try, I suppose < 1550523022 109785 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm planning on doing it. Just wondering if anyone was interested in collaborating or contributing. < 1550523068 673480 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :50,000 commands worth of quines is a lot of code for one person to write < 1550523215 84586 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi most of the novels generated for national novel generation month are nonsensical, so I'm not worried about it actually being readable < 1550523233 355750 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :50,000 words of readable quines is probably a lifetime project, not a one month project < 1550523234 840905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: you could write just one quine with a 49000 word long novel as its payload < 1550523279 129970 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, that's the cop out I'll do if I don't have time to do more than one quine < 1550523347 121176 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd be cool to do a little book of poem / quines < 1550523418 34889 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and highlight some different interesting esolangs < 1550523519 108259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: also, there was a project somewhere repeated once each year for several years that's a special case of NaNoWriMo, where the goal is to write a program that writes an 50000 word novel < 1550523537 37366 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah NaNoGenMo, national novel generation month > 1550523548 215031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:1st-Worst14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59950 5* 03Cortex 5* (+162) 10/* . */ new section < 1550523548 458459 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's what I plan on submitting it to < 1550523565 771813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good < 1550523611 991075 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised nobody has done a book of quines in languages whose commands are natural language before for nanogenmo < 1550523639 888318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: wait, how do you know? there were lots of programs submitted < 1550523650 878512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try to run each of them? < 1550523665 58254 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say, "I'd be surprised" < 1550523699 336219 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone could have accidentally generated a quine in some language I suppose < 1550523726 396283 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a cursory google search doesn't reveal anything < 1550523804 659877 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ in some languages, it is not too hard to write a quine < 1550523805 318573 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in some languages , it is not too hard to write a quine < 1550523828 973502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even our honorable and learned friend fungot could do so < 1550523829 121969 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: and the look and feel :) and which one doesn't? < 1550523865 219909 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's true, but in the spirit of nanogenmo the output should look something like readable english and not many languages look like readable english < 1550523893 927456 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to start working on an esolangs list of languages whose source code looks like english < 1550523918 464753 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as candidate languages for quines < 1550523927 380825 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: it's trickier than that. it's not just "whose source code looks like english" < 1550523937 234779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages, you can write programs that look like english, and ones that don't < 1550523955 612093 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some obfuscated programs in perl that try to look somewhat like english text < 1550523959 669597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't know of any such quines < 1550523988 835971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there are programs where most of the source code is english, but there's a small decoder around it < 1550524000 98996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a program can be written in many languages that have easy string literals < 1550524008 747734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-line ones < 1550524040 351964 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I'd like to restrict the characters used to make it more interesting. Like every string of letters should be a word and the only non-letter characters allowed should be common punctuation marks used in plausible ways. < 1550524068 824195 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook! is perfectly in the spirit of what I mean < 1550524102 254986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: in perl you can write programs with only letters and spaces. many people have done that, including me. again I don't know of such a quine, but it can probably be done. < 1550524108 650861 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have been working on a language for the purpose called Semordnilap for the same purpose < 1550524122 447935 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: a perl quine that is only composed of english words would be mindblowingly amazing < 1550524144 567868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I didn't say that < 1550524153 764768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said only letters and spaces < 1550524166 888229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only english words is much harder, because then you can't use "q" or "qq" or anything of that sort < 1550524168 913382 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, I gather that using actual words would be another level of challenge < 1550524180 297485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me point to some such obfus < 1550524253 192224 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool cool > 1550524292 18970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59951&oldid=59948 5* 03Orby 5* (+22) 10/* Introduction */ > 1550524379 151428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59952&oldid=59951 5* 03Orby 5* (-4) 10/* Branching */ < 1550524475 829187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=290607 https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=338686 https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=453519 look in replies too < 1550524521 685149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=877696 is a steganography one, where I take a nearly arbitrary text, and hide unrelated text in it, plus add a small decoder. this won't lead to a quine since the hidden text is much shorter. < 1550524531 324648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1550524539 365232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could actually lead to a quine if you only hid the decoder in there < 1550524550 603153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and printed the funged text itself verbatim < 1550524583 68094 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very cool. Doing a quine in this format seems like it would be quite challenging. < 1550524602 788645 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550524626 933882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the non-alphanumeric subset of JavaScript, but I don't think it's doable the other way around. < 1550524637 445083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do a Lingua::Romana::Perligata quine maybe? < 1550524662 184781 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not familiar with that, is that an esolang? < 1550524676 137870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: the wiki has a page on it < 1550524676 708895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a Perl module to write code in Latin-ish. < 1550524679 453821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://metacpan.org/pod/Lingua::Romana::Perligata < 1550524689 889643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Perligata < 1550524694 370178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's a stub < 1550524699 181576 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ecbkjtjwimwsnpdq JOIN :#esoteric < 1550524722 816206 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is very cool too. Thanks for the link. > 1550524726 76737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lingua::Romana::Perligata14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59953 5* 03B jonas 5* (+23) 10Redirected page to [[Perligata]] < 1550525157 616535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Pseudonatural category, but I doubt it's very complete. < 1550525219 527269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ORK, though I doubt I'd manage to participate in anything. < 1550525454 408084 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550525491 132870 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Awesome, pseudonatural is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ORK indeed looks awesome. < 1550525652 789036 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROFL, best hello world ever http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report/shakespeare/#SECTION00091000000000000000 < 1550525738 48851 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the Thesaurus Perligatus
< 1550525747 377677 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :STDIN vestibulo "an entrance" < 1550525747 523461 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :STDOUT egresso "an exit" < 1550525748 50520 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :STDERR oraculo "a place where doom is pronounced" < 1550525753 967416 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550525784 613750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59954&oldid=59952 5* 03Orby 5* (+58) 10 < 1550525833 738352 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a place where doom is pronounced XD > 1550526777 962979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59955&oldid=59954 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 > 1550526806 452274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ook!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59956&oldid=41892 5* 03Orby 5* (+27) 10 > 1550527617 864236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07German14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59957&oldid=41722 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 > 1550527742 186647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Farm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59958&oldid=34532 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 < 1550527893 517727 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igfvvlbzmucmbjll QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550527902 869515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gorispace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59959&oldid=19062 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 > 1550528058 113576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59960&oldid=51619 5* 03Orby 5* (+27) 10 < 1550528094 173489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: just to be sure, you know Chef the esolang, right? < 1550528110 672859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already mentioned Shakespeare, right? < 1550528111 159787 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: nope! checking it out now > 1550528142 552692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chef14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59961&oldid=58292 5* 03Orby 5* (+27) 10 < 1550528193 910572 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome :) < 1550528213 202624 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yep, I'm cataloging some of the better examples under the pseudonatural category < 1550528279 303463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because of reasons(tm), you'll need to be logged in for the category page to get updated. < 1550528293 910942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks MediaWiki file cache < 1550528294 977661 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, MediaWiki file cache. ThediaWiki file cache. > 1550528331 485499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59962&oldid=59955 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ < 1550528344 584056 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the bot didn't annouce minor edits... < 1550528348 106765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: as in http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm ? < 1550528367 784993 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: as in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Pseudonatural < 1550528383 158512 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, "resembling natural language" < 1550528402 894801 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nice d&d reference :) < 1550528442 895775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: Depending on your IRC client you may be able to suppress all mentions of edits (I did it) < 1550528459 157574 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't mind it, I just don't want to spam everyone else < 1550528484 612913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then everyone else can program such a feature in their IRC client and you do not have to do. < 1550528512 888288 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess that's always an option :) < 1550528574 571624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It puts a "M" in there for minor edits, in case someone's interested in filtering those out specifically. I think generally people don't mind them, though I think some do ignore them. < 1550528608 391716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in ignoring minor edits anyway. that attitude just leads to having to debug "but I didn't change anything" problems. < 1550528622 745773 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550528653 542883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not hide minor edits (or any other edits) in the recent changes list in the wiki, only I hide it in the IRC < 1550530299 996830 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550531995 769458 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550532650 156547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :```` quote; wisdom < 1550532650 800726 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```: not found < 1550532650 840256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :```` quote; wisdom < 1550532651 525071 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```: not found < 1550532654 307709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; wisdom < 1550532654 873174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; wisdom < 1550532655 247580 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :853) There is Haskell program "pandoc" to convert formats, so I make "panchess" which is the similar thing but for chess. \ it'//It's written with an apostrophe. < 1550532655 921534 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1073) I AM AN INVADING NECROPOLIS... ALL BOW BEFORE MY... erm... WALLS?... NECROBUILDINGS? \ the question//The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master. < 1550532681 739449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` wisdom; quote < 1550532682 617909 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​progress//Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. \ 785) my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday < 1550532685 487076 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; quote < 1550532686 314229 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :594) Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by? \ 361) adding quotes by yourself is strictly prohibited and will lead to you being banned < 1550532751 477645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` starwars 2; scheme; random-card < 1550532752 582199 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finn \ Mace Windu \ I Bask in Your Silent Awe \ Miasmic Mummy \ 1B \ Creature -- Zombie Jackal \ 2/2 \ When Miasmic Mummy enters the battlefield, each player discards a card. \ AKH-C < 1550532776 805271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1550532777 460429 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ix the eggs, filling all ingredients. Add the water and nuts, then add the \ water and salt in a large skillet; add the eggs, mix \ well and set aside. Remove the chilline for one out of the apple mashed. \ Sprinkle the parsley and flour and set aside. Fry the chops to a \ boil, and simmer for about 30 minutes, or until the mixture is \ coated and all the beef dispalles are done. \ \ 2. In a large bowl mix beans, and salt in skillet over medium hig < 1550532837 11618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fry the chops to a boil? hmm. < 1550532845 856695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is reasonably readable though < 1550532855 849221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still is obsessed with skillets < 1550532963 438984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving