< 1556064007 422804 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:41d8:eaf:2e4d:3028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1556064056 535341 :sombrero!b5cb3bf8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.203.59.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory RUSTfety < 1556064057 150143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a managed heap? Garbage collection? < 1556064057 368714 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:41d8:eaf:2e4d:3028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to be able to reasonably say to someone "hey, don't do that or you'll be fired" < 1556064125 13234 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've certainly written Haskell code as a prototype and reimplemented it in C++ for speed after I figured out the right algorithm, for combinatorial enumerations. < 1556064139 298798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, GC is usually implied. < 1556064152 312108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That and memory safety. < 1556064183 783404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garbage collection seems pretty scow to me. < 1556064195 754174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you start with garbage collection you can't really remove it later, even locally. < 1556064201 614415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fundamentally a global thing. < 1556064222 472101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had local heaps with no external pointer, the argument for GC would be stronger. < 1556064290 702331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, isn't that covered by regions? You don't have to give up the runtime-management for that, really. < 1556064335 293989 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I know languages that do local GC. Probably because global pointers are great. < 1556064339 416854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm talking in principle, not about GHC. GHC doesn't have this. It has nurseries which somewhat help, keeping scratch objects thread-local.) < 1556064344 825800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Erlang does. < 1556064391 387868 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PART :#esoteric < 1556064529 410187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIUI GHC pays for thread-local nurseries by an expensive write barrier: If you update a pointer on the global heap (after evaluating a thunk) with a local object, that object will be promoted immediately. < 1556064701 919379 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.10.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1556064706 151101 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. A partial answer for GHC is that you can allocate a pinned object for scratch space and play around with that all you like, even from foreign code. < 1556065230 787616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really an answer, though. < 1556065242 571548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC still needs to stop the world for collecting the global heap, doesn't it? < 1556066085 954884 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1556066103 556936 :sombrero!b5cb3bf8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.203.59.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1556066394 298537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F391 MOON VIEWING CEREMONY [🎑] < 1556067288 980431 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1556069510 406555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Snidbert64 5* 10New user account > 1556069652 111193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61338&oldid=61327 5* 03Snidbert64 5* (+176) 10/* Introductions */ < 1556073434 136803 :sombrero!b5cb32c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.203.50.200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1556073640 387303 :sombrero!b5cb32c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.203.50.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, almost I forgot it, if some want a DSL instead of a PL to tackle pixels, https://bmao.tech/PixelPlusPlus/ is a good option < 1556073770 174425 :sombrero!b5cb32c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.203.50.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not in the sense of Piet, lol < 1556074758 369385 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idufjfunivwcngpe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1556076228 303515 :sombrero!b5cb32c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.203.50.200 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1556076935 633578 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck on BIY < 1556076953 694562 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :level fall-5: haunt < 1556077366 524952 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaay solved it < 1556078801 934646 :adu_!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556078806 524501 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1556078806 725633 :adu_!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net NICK :adu > 1556083255 171764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61339&oldid=61334 5* 03A 5* (+98) 10/* A (quite weird) idea about programming GNU nano, the text editor */ < 1556083603 589642 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556083620 811637 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1556086538 70322 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1556086902 70160 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1556088305 92666 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1556088872 225477 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556088882 882078 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1556090894 972791 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1556090918 557361 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1556091381 962102 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556091392 951129 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1556095745 890239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1556096172 954328 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556097312 931235 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.10.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1556097417 409442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1556097418 699726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 240850Z 15017G27KT CAVOK 17/M02 Q1019 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 18028KT < 1556097425 755599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :springy < 1556097568 823197 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1556097669 21334 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1556099867 135079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1556100944 172379 :DamZ!~u0_a195@36.79.125.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1556100971 198024 :DamZ!~u0_a195@36.79.125.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1556101023 153534 :DamZ!~u0_a195@36.79.125.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave < 1556101027 198539 :DamZ!~u0_a195@36.79.125.223 PART :#esoteric < 1556106548 442037 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1556108862 46241 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the "bag of sentences" aspect of the baba is you language fascinating < 1556108892 178487 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sentences are completely unordered, meaning that the same effect regardless of where they are < 1556108896 834471 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have the same effect* < 1556108910 115103 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this would be difficult to implement < 1556108940 948634 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a good way to implement it would be with something like a logic sat solver < 1556108958 498256 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would ensure the effect of the rules respects the lack of ordering < 1556109912 483024 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556109921 379558 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1556112327 724848 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1556119310 807774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what happens to X's if in one move you construct both "X is Y" and "X is Z" rules? < 1556119720 486996 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051e0681721d01517.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1556120033 320744 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051e0681721d01517.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1556120197 93802 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b519877083571ea2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1556123974 627576 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh geez I dunno. rules can be blocked by other rules. "BaBa is BaBa" blocks "BaBa is key" for example < 1556123993 522475 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to play that game more < 1556124350 628208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're on to something < 1556124639 793756 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure either < 1556124675 492845 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting one I learned yesterday is that 'box is text' will turn every box into the text 'box' < 1556124684 599547 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like a quotation operator < 1556124703 811280 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly not that useful because now you have no boxes left to refer to < 1556124988 999304 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful here though: (spoiler) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pdFaCNrdhg < 1556125071 744196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1556125093 949325 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1556127132 141705 :Melvar!~melvar@ltea-178-014-120-034.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: thunderstorm < 1556127908 87469 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: have you discovered words yet? < 1556128099 609739 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1556128115 173653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a no then < 1556128123 822601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1556128273 610873 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b519877083571ea2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1556128564 350425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Genius from Kiev14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=61340 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2425) 10Created page with "'''The Genius From Kiev''' is a series of esoteric programming languages made by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]] to be the exact opposite of The Amnesiac F..." > 1556128635 342922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61341&oldid=60982 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+27) 10 > 1556128659 575548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61342&oldid=61341 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+0) 10/* Full List of languages I Made */ < 1556128721 523133 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d4d8856c12f8c99d.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1556130137 124673 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d4d8856c12f8c99d.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1556130356 990303 :Melvar!~melvar@ltea-178-014-120-034.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556131177 32912 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you have X is Y is Z is W is X < 1556131190 863333 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result is that X becomes Y in one turn, and then Y becomes Z < 1556131229 587358 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a #esoteric-baba < 1556131235 162701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're spoiling all the things < 1556131258 526137 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/babaisyou_/status/1099862522075717632 < 1556131630 214729 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfuowqfbroufibqh JOIN :#esoteric < 1556132375 957172 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1556132622 194299 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lVAFcDX4eM < 1556132630 222205 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raycasting engine in Factorio (vanilla 0.17) - Facto-RayO v1.0 < 1556132668 872986 :asie!~asie@asie.pl QUIT :Quit: asie < 1556133173 316628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: That's fine, but not what I was wondering about. < 1556133200 932722 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry i misread your question < 1556133240 892513 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone have some ideas about how to implement game rules that don't care about the order? < 1556133302 932848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half the questions being asked here are spoilers. < 1556133337 348926 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how they're spoilers < 1556133349 780640 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them reference a specific level < 1556133366 174274 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they're things you might not think of trying, that will be useful in a specific level. < 1556133368 344995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fun of the game is to figure out the rules. < 1556133382 176345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a fun of the game. < 1556134396 967726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1556134652 702651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1556134654 604139 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1556134912 273984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Spoiler is ban | Welcome to the international stock market for esoteric programming language invention, implementation, ignorance, innovation, and integration! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1556134979 974464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( should that be capitalized ) < 1556135037 740503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? baba < 1556135039 247650 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :baba? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1556135059 785986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that's case sensitive, isn't it... < 1556135102 558682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1556135131 669690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn BABA IS ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1556135134 29629 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'baba': BABA IS ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1556136026 819103 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556136251 862629 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I think a unification engine would do it? < 1556136264 232452 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think so < 1556136368 102914 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it basically just a set of x = y rules? < 1556136375 179923 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no internal variables < 1556136405 242255 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you say there are some nondeterministic rules? < 1556136616 571677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1556136710 891218 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that work? < 1556136876 692853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One instance is zhygvcyr GRYR gnetrgf naq nabgure vafgnapr vf bevragngvba bs RZCGL VF K < 1556138610 245896 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vsqwtyrhaadwzkml JOIN :#esoteric < 1556140205 977993 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1556140338 142902 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't encountered RZCGL VF K < 1556140350 937833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds p. exciting < 1556140379 114558 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1556140450 367522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that there are sprites for NAAVR walking? < 1556140630 138389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't. Sounds like the best. < 1556140648 98518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I have to rot13 in my head now since I'm at my phone. < 1556140660 848834 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. < 1556140673 739319 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess that one wasn't do bad. < 1556140714 410710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this is my rot13 program: tr A-Za-z N-ZA-Mn-za-m... so a and n are easy :) < 1556140768 649106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played the demo a long time ago. I think ORFG was in there. < 1556140777 446054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it may have been KEKE < 1556140779 10855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make sure you don't become so good at rot13 in your head you cannot avoid decoding it < 1556140836 275085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds dangerous < 1556140848 779916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll have to go to rot14 < 1556140888 669646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, orfg was there. < 1556140986 81912 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00c931b5b704a11f22.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1556141011 43253 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1556141177 219420 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1556141521 487306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You played the demo? < 1556141554 529451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( SHACHAF is YOU. ) < 1556141568 293027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't play the demo. < 1556141654 96003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you have information regarding the existence of orfg < 1556141748 493529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it features in a level in the release, but is inaccessible as far as I can tell. < 1556141852 277012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :j < 1556141857 237531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1556141879 111038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the demo has KEKE IS BEST or something like that < 1556141916 176217 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lonely Flag is the level (rocket area) < 1556141949 684417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 there's a walkthrough so I'm not tempted to reinstall the game. < 1556142110 180725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :BABA IS BEST < 1556142146 31574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's NAAV < 1556142252 334788 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, my bad. < 1556142258 356126 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION IS NOT BEST. < 1556143745 962202 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing a mitm inspection tool for mosh < 1556143771 110642 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice thing about UDP is you can restart the MITM without restarting the client or the server! < 1556143775 826626 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosh just interprets it as a bout of packet loss < 1556144056 21485 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if you index a python3 bytestring you get an int and not a 1-byte bytestring < 1556144061 869534 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's reasonable, but it was a bit surprising < 1556144264 476391 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is slowly but surely getting her programming mojo back < 1556144451 663061 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madness < 1556144494 735263 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm does that do anything useful to an attacker without knowing the underlying key? I guess timing packets is of some interest... After a brief look, learning the key itself should be hard (unless you MITM the initial ssh connection as well, at least) < 1556144524 964849 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be useful for timing and packet-length analysis, although you can observe that passively < 1556144530 112053 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could also be useful for fuzzing < 1556144535 8297 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not making it for security purposes < 1556144542 558095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, just wondering :) < 1556144557 933037 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I can do with this is drop packets or add lag as desired < 1556144572 653933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's the first step of my crazy scheme to run mosh over long distance shortwave radio < 1556144617 421337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you are making a proxy/tunnel in the end. :) < 1556144629 866618 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1556144654 352972 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I will be removing the encryption to comply with ham radio rules < 1556144665 366144 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpretation of the rules is that it's okay to keep the authentication tag < 1556144670 31406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I expect to have people argue with me about this < 1556144678 342424 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since armchair rules lawyering is an important part of ham radio < 1556144774 294081 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/ffKr7Xo.png < 1556144779 134944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is still encrypted for the time being) < 1556144935 761561 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, now I'm pondering the meaning of TL9H1MPF < 1556144961 238096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* I've figured out the "LAPTOP" part of it though. :) < 1556144988 178905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just some hash that is assigned when you set up windows < 1556145019 614953 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is called moshmodem < 1556145071 575208 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it will translate UDP packets into audio output from your sound card, and audio input from the sound card into UDP packets < 1556145090 859241 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what modulation scheme to use, probably something simple and dumb at first < 1556145097 142444 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-tone FSK with a start tone, or something < 1556145149 137536 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately mosh already has a checksum and handles dropped or corrupted packets < 1556145157 543044 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I expect to get a lot of retransmits at that rate < 1556145162 625624 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will reduce the already dismal data rate < 1556145177 318958 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think some FEC would be called for, and modulation with better processing gain < 1556145216 723476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the first 8 bytes of the packets (sequence numbers) don't look encrypted... can you cause trouble there? But maybe not, if these numbers are part of the message authentication. < 1556145236 240693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still feels wrong to have them in plain sight like that, to me. < 1556145243 965772 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can already run Mosh over AX.25, but that's a bunch of complexity and setup hassle that isn't really necessary < 1556145249 883527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my scheme won't involve a network stack per se < 1556145261 493759 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it is a sequence number, which is also the nonce for AES-OCB < 1556145287 684167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can estimate the lifetime of a mosh session from there. < 1556145541 610951 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true < 1556145548 650326 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use random nonces instead < 1556145552 978323 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the ocb nonce is long enough, i forget < 1556145559 536699 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd still need a sequence number, but could encrypt it < 1556145838 414981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a given key should be used to encrypt at most 2^48 blocks" <-- maybe not a concern for this particular use :) < 1556145860 535893 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's actually code in there to abort the session if you hit that limit < 1556145888 712378 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun. < 1556145932 468942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, off to bed. < 1556145943 406975 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyl int-e < 1556145975 272254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1556147530 117301 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We deem it unlikely that a legitimate user will send 4 PB through a Mosh session. If it happens, we simply kill the session. The server and client use the same key, so we actually need to die after 2^47 blocks." < 1556147927 942111 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1556148148 634548 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1556148154 854994 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00c931b5b704a11f22.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1556148407 496831 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfuowqfbroufibqh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity