←2019-06-16 2019-06-17 2019-06-18→ ↑2019 ↑all
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01:26:12 <esowiki> [[Virage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63554&oldid=63545 * Salpynx * (+359) /* Examples */ Truth-machine
01:44:46 <esowiki> [[Virage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63555&oldid=63554 * Salpynx * (-11) /* Truth-machine */
02:08:57 <zzo38> "it's also a Deserter because of a certain interesting old card, a Vehicle Pilot, a Carrier Processor. creature types are Weird." but, "Vehicle" is not a creature type; it is a subtype for artifacts.
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02:41:31 <imode> so I have an idea for a language that does pattern -> replacement rewrites over undirected, unlabeled graphs. an interesting thought popped into my head: what if you could encode labeled, directed graphs on top of unlabeled, undirected graphs.
02:42:19 <imode> was wondering if anybody knew anything about that encoding process if it's even been done before.
02:43:02 <zzo38> I don't know about that.
02:43:17 <zzo38> If someone know, I hope to learn too.
02:44:07 <imode> my focus right now is on the transition from labeled -> unlabeled.
02:44:49 <imode> my current thought is you have to encode the label topologically, so if you have a finite set of labels, you could number them and encode each one as the complete graph K(N+3).
02:45:08 <imode> and then just have the first specified vertex be the "anchor" to connect to other labeled nodes.
02:45:29 <imode> but this'd get very very messy because those aren't uniquely identifiable unless you also have a similar encoding for edges.
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02:57:05 <salpynx> imode: I wonder if you could label vertices with unique unlabelled graph tags, and double all edges, so if you were on a vertex with two edges you are on an edge, if there are more than two, a vertex with a label
02:58:08 <salpynx> A-B => <labelA>-A-*-B-<labelB>
02:58:35 <imode> something like that, yeah. you'd need a way of generating some unique "tag" from a given label, though.
02:58:54 <imode> does that also assume you can have multiple edges between two nodes?
02:58:56 <imode> i.e a multigraph?
02:59:38 <salpynx> you might need a label-tag tag :) to id where the label is attached
02:59:54 <imode> mind-bending. :confusion:
03:00:11 <imode> there was this article series, tales from the tinkerpop, that covered this in a cheeky way, lemme find it...
03:00:20 <imode> https://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/tales-from-the-tinkerpop
03:00:42 <int-e> imode: perhaps something like https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ggg.png (a sketch, I have not yet tried to poke holes into it... but the idea is that this encodes a DAG with A labeld with 2, B labeled with 3, and an edge A -> B)?
03:01:09 <imode> yeah!
03:01:29 <imode> that's exactly what I had in mind.
03:02:57 <imode> there was also a neat stackexchange answer on converting directed edges to undirected edges, and the solution looked really slick and kinda funny.
03:03:25 <imode> https://i.stack.imgur.com/OxaLX.png
03:03:33 <imode> and the original answer: https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/19744/converting-a-digraph-to-an-undirected-graph-in-a-reversible-way
03:06:14 <int-e> I've tweaked the image slightly to be more suggestive ;-)
03:07:00 <imode> diagrammatic reasoning, eat your heart out. XD
03:07:20 <imode> "you want an arrow semantically? here you go."
03:09:39 <imode> the question I have is how does this hold up for larger, more complex graphs.
03:10:49 <imode> A -> B, B -> C, C -> A for example. if I wanted to match on that "shape" regardless of pattern, I could potentially end up matching one of the labels unless I used an explicit edge structure.
03:11:42 <imode> how'd you make that diagram btw, int-e?
03:12:00 <salpynx> My idea of a "labelled" unlabled square: A-*-B-*-C-*-D-*-A , where * is an edge mid-vertex, and A has a complete triangle graph attached, B a comple square, C a complete petagon, and D a complete hexagonal graph attached
03:12:48 <int-e> I think it works just like that (mainly because all original edges are substuted by something of length 3, so the K_3 and K_4 marking the label subgraph are recognizable. But maybe the label nodes should have another appendix so that the path from the K_3 to the K_4 can be recognized
03:13:48 <imode> for example, if I want to match on any edges that're incoming to B, I'd just match on `-> B`, and that'd get translated down to that larger undirected and unlabeled pattern.
03:14:21 <imode> interestiiing...
03:14:27 <salpynx> int-e's way looks like it will use a lot less edges than mine, although complete-graph tags are are probably not strictly necessary, they are just easy to ensure they are unique and can't be confused for edges
03:14:47 <imode> another way would be to use loops or something equivalent.
03:14:58 <imode> int-e: what'cha mean by appendix?
03:15:13 <imode> this has really sparked my curiosity.
03:15:43 <int-e> imode: I've changed the picture once more
03:15:57 <imode> ohohoho wow.
03:16:04 <imode> it really looks like a "backbone" now.
03:17:25 <int-e> it's a centipede of course
03:18:10 <imode> are you encoding path length in this?
03:18:25 <imode> is that what I'm seeing? :o
03:18:28 <int-e> no?
03:18:42 <imode> why the 4, 5, 6 then?
03:19:08 <int-e> well I was imagining a larger graph with 7 labels
03:19:23 <imode> ahhhh okay, that makes sense.
03:19:23 <int-e> just a random numbers
03:20:16 <int-e> so... this should work if the original graph has no loops
03:20:30 <int-e> loops are problematic because the edge would be a K_3 then
03:20:49 <int-e> (well, two K_3's sharing an edge)
03:20:59 <imode> yeah. and any arrangement of labeled nodes in a complete graph with undirected edges would technically form a "label" in the middle.
03:21:12 <imode> so you'd have to have edge markers for both directed and undirected edges.
03:21:47 <int-e> and that detail should be fixable without fundamentally changing the construction
03:22:17 <imode> I dig it. this has given me motivation to start implementing the aforementioned language. :)
03:22:55 <imode> thanks!
03:23:31 <imode> it'd be neat to shove a complex graph from something like RDF through this translator and dump it into graphviz.
03:24:05 <int-e> ... I would be very much surprised if the result was recognizable
03:24:28 <imode> by nothing other than a machine. :P
03:24:30 <int-e> (IME graphviz needs a lot of prodding for all but the simplest of graphs)
03:24:51 <imode> yeah... it doesn't do fitting and placement well.
03:33:36 <int-e> salpynx: I do wonder whether people have thought about how to do this optimally
03:33:48 <salpynx> imode: I assume you know about https://esolangs.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_machine ? I've been trying to collate resources and existing graph rewriting languages there
03:36:50 <salpynx> I came up with a numbering system for eodermdrome that was less wasteful than K(n+3), but it was also trying to fit into eodermdrome's 26 symbol limit. I'd have to dig out the notes as I never quite finished that code
03:38:22 <int-e> imode: btw I have thought about such things before... I wanted to use graph isomorphism tools (like nauty or Traces) for isomorphisms of more structured things (term rewrite systems, specifically). Then I learned that those tools actually support labeled graphs...
03:38:36 <int-e> (vertex-labeled)
03:39:01 <imode> salpynx: I've gone down that road before, I could barely find any info on them. :\
03:39:38 <imode> int-e: hah. yak shaving at its finest. ;)
03:42:17 <int-e> imode: and this is quite inherently so; one key feature of those tools is that they partition the sets of vertices if they've found a way to discriminate between them (e.g., nodes of degree 3 never map to nodes of degree 4). Labels are encoded just by providing an initial partition...
03:42:50 <imode> interesting, nauty and Traces...
03:45:06 <imode> that's kind of the idea we've been toying with, isn't it? only the partitions are easier because you're slicing away complete graphs which are pretty self-contained.
03:49:30 <salpynx> imode: I'm interested in what you come up with for a new graph rewriting language, good luck, and feel free to update here. I'm definitely up for testing and trying to use it for something.
03:51:10 <imode> salpynx: thanks! it's actually a pretty trivial language... just a list of edges (A - B) on the left-hand side of a -> to match a bunch of nodes, and a list of edges on the right-hand side that denote a replacement pattern.
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03:51:30 <imode> only supports undirected, unlabeled graphs. debating on allowing loops.
03:51:38 <ais523> salpynx: you misunderstand how eodermdrome works, it doesn't have a symbol limit, it doesn't have symbols at all
03:52:03 <ais523> the symbols are only used to describe the shape of the graph, and not stored in the graph
03:52:05 <int-e> imode: two more: saucy and bliss. the "au" was for automorphisms?
03:52:21 <ais523> so, e.g., a Y shape can be described as abcbd, but you can later match that same shape as efgfh
03:52:24 <int-e> imode: two more graph isomorphism programs, that is
03:52:25 <imode> int-e: nice, I have some research to do. :)
03:53:09 <ais523> if you want a symbol-equivalent, and most programs do, you do it with weirdly-shaped bits of graph that don't appear elsewhere
03:53:16 <int-e> imode: IIRC traces is the newest and overall the one with the best performance
03:53:51 <imode> interesting, I wonder what it uses for representing graphs internally.
03:54:00 <imode> brb!
03:56:33 <salpynx> ais523: I meant there is a 26 symbol limit in describing a graph shape, so whatever weirdly-shaped graph you want to refer to can only have 26 nodes max
03:58:06 <salpynx> so I was trying to come up with a number system of <26 node graph shapes
03:58:54 <salpynx> _/\_
03:59:00 <salpynx> \/\
03:59:05 <salpynx> _/\_
03:59:25 <salpynx> \/\
04:00:01 <salpynx> was how I remember them going
04:00:05 <int-e> imode: Hmm, that triggered a vague memory; IIRC, the "s" is "saucy" is for "sparse", because originally "nauty" used a dense representation (adjacency matrix).
04:01:04 <int-e> imode: but I believe there's nothing fancy going on there; it's either adjacency lists or adjacency matrices.
04:01:10 <ais523> salpynx: right, I see
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04:01:33 <ais523> there is, I believe, a limit to the number of distinct Eodermdrome programs that can be written
04:02:02 <ais523> meaning that it's ℒ-complete rather than Turing-complete in the traditional sense
04:02:16 <ais523> @djinn ((a -> b) -> a) -> a
04:02:16 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
04:02:47 <ais523> @djinn (a -> (b -> c)) -> (b -> (a -> c))
04:02:48 <lambdabot> f a b c = a c b
04:02:59 <ais523> @djinn a -> (a -> a)
04:02:59 <lambdabot> f _ a = a
04:03:27 <ais523> @djinn a -> b -> (a -> a -> b)
04:03:27 <lambdabot> f _ a _ _ = a
04:03:36 <ais523> err, that's not what I meant for that last one
04:03:49 <ais523> @djinn a -> ((a -> a -> b) -> b) -> b
04:03:49 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
04:04:10 <ais523> @djinn a -> (a -> a -> b) -> b
04:04:10 <lambdabot> f a b = b a a
04:04:12 <ais523> there we go
04:04:42 <ais523> so Haskell has exchange, weakening, and contraction, but not the law of the excluded middle
04:05:13 <salpynx> ais523: the most complex eodermdrome progam I have written to a state that (mostly) works is a increment / decrement / output interpreter for the joke language +-= , it has an accumulator and outputs the decimal value when instructed to
04:05:52 <ais523> hmm, you're most of the way to a Deadfish interp there, aren't you?
04:06:09 <ais523> does it store the value internally in decimal or in unary?
04:06:17 <salpynx> https://github.com/hornc/eodermdrome-examples/tree/master/%2B-%3D
04:07:03 <salpynx> unary for each decimal placeholder
04:08:03 <ais523> ah right, so unary-coded-decimal with a fixed number of digits
04:09:07 <salpynx> yes, I haven't finished extending it to 4 digits, but I think I've shown the techinque which can be extended to more and more digits
04:10:12 <ais523> I guess an arbitrarily-many-digits counter would look something like a tape machine
04:10:48 <salpynx> I have not spent time thinking how to implement squaring to bring it to Deadfish, but implementing an accumulator was a first step in making a simple game to track a score or something
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04:14:38 <salpynx> Thinking about graph-rewriting languages in terms of string-rewriting (Thue or ///) gets things done, but I'd love to figure out a way of being less 1D with them. That would be like 2d string rewrting
04:15:14 <ais523> fwiw, there's a gap in the market for a good 2D string rewriting esolang
04:15:31 <ais523> I'm tempted to add a few 2D primitives to Precongition, but I think I should probably implement the 1D version first :-D
04:15:36 <ais523> *Precognition
04:17:10 <salpynx> I have not looked at Precognition (yet!)
04:18:01 <int-e> . o O ( But you already know what it is? )
04:20:37 <salpynx> reminds me that I recently had the idea of a regex version of Slashes, to be called 'Rashers': 🥓foo(.*)🥓$1bar🥓 , but REGEXY seems to already provide that
04:28:06 <salpynx> seriously? MS uses back-rashers while everyone uses forward-rashers? https://emojipedia.org/bacon/
04:33:12 <ais523> salpynx: IIRC the baguette emoji also goes in the same direction as the platform's directory separator
04:33:23 <kmc> ais523: ...
04:33:34 <kmc> hilarious
04:34:51 <ais523> assuming no standard for emoji direction, something like this was likely to happen by chance, surely?
04:35:09 <ais523> although once it was noticed, ideally people would keep to the same property intentionally
04:36:01 <salpynx> wow, it does look like its deliberate, they all follow the dir separator direction
04:39:43 <ais523> btw, I'm very happy that pretty much all the Eodermdrome programs I've seen go to some effort to make their graph definitions meaningful or at least pronounceable
04:40:26 <ais523> the comment syntax was designed to try to make that possible
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04:49:47 <salpynx> I had fun doing the eodermdrome truth machine, although it probably gives a very misleading idea of the syntax. I had to modify the interpreters to ignore punctuation as in the spec
04:50:22 <imode> back. now to read back!
04:50:34 <ais523> at least that bit of the spec did get implemented eventually
04:51:04 <ais523> it'd be a shame if it ended up like Underload (where there was a bit of the spec that nobody ever implemented, despite there being a large number of implementations written, and nowadays it isn't treated as part of the language)
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08:49:44 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63556&oldid=63464 * Salpynx * (+13) /* Non-alphabetic */ add
08:50:28 <salpynx> HackEso: `unicode ق
08:50:50 <salpynx> `unicode ق
08:50:51 <HackEso> U+0642 ARABIC LETTER QAF \ UTF-8: d9 82 UTF-16BE: 0642 Decimal: &#1602; \ ق \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: AL (Right-to-Left Arabic)
08:51:26 <salpynx> `unicode Ю
08:51:27 <HackEso> U+042E CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YU \ UTF-8: d0 ae UTF-16BE: 042e Decimal: &#1070; \ Ю (ю) \ Lowercase: U+044E \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
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09:05:30 <wob_jonas> ais523: yeah, it's a pity especially as Underload is so small
09:05:46 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, sorry, the Vehicle is my mistake.
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09:11:13 <wob_jonas> Question. Suppose I have a C macro that in one implementation, evaluates some of its arguments multiple times. In another implementation, this isn't necessary. You could consider putc in ancient compilers as an example.
09:12:00 <wob_jonas> In the latter kind of interpreter, can it make sense to make the macro evaluate the argument twice just so that we can more easily catch nonportable code that assumes that the argument would be evaluated only once?
09:12:21 <wob_jonas> I'm not asking this for putc, but for a library API I'm going to define.
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09:24:15 <wob_jonas> And I do understand that the putc example is a bit of a stretch, because not many people will write code like { int i = 0; while (i < nfiles) putc(c, file[i++]); }
09:28:21 <fizzie> No, but `while (*src != 'x') putc(*src++, file);` is kind of plausible.
09:29:15 <fizzie> (I don't have an opinion on evaluate-twice-just-to-catch-bugs. It would be nice if it could be "warn on expressions with side effects", but that's not really feasible.)
09:29:20 <wob_jonas> fizzie: sure, but it's the file handle argument that can be evaluated more than once
09:30:00 <fizzie> Oh, apparently. I thought it was just any argument.
09:30:27 <wob_jonas> that depends on which macro obviously
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12:47:23 <wob_jonas> has someone meddled with the fundamental constants of the universe again some time within the last two months? or perhaps with the isotope ratios of the Earth's water supply? because it seems like the microwave oven is working somewhat faster than it used to
12:48:07 <wob_jonas> it used to take 140 seconds to heat up my soup, now it takes only 120 seconsd
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13:02:25 <int-e> mmm is it less soup?
13:02:47 <wob_jonas> int-e: dunno. it could be that the temperature before heating is higher, since it's now summer.
13:03:07 <int-e> that also makes sense, if it doesn't come from a fridge.
13:03:10 <wob_jonas> or that I wait less between the microwave finishing heating and checking the temperature
13:03:46 <int-e> anyway in answer to your question... I seriously doubt it
13:04:28 <int-e> we'd have seen more infrastructure failures at the very least... but I guess chemistry would be different as well, including biochemsitry, so we'd all be dead by now.
13:05:14 <int-e> . o O ( that would be some hard-core evolutionary pressure though. )
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13:19:19 <arseniiv> for it was only a candle…
13:20:18 <int-e> Is anyone adding magnetic field sensors to LCD and recreating the psychedelic color effects that CRTs had? Kids are missing out on so much these days...
13:52:00 <wob_jonas> int-e: we have a museum here that has a CRT exhibited with a strong magnet next to it specifically for kids to try that
13:52:08 <wob_jonas> at least it had one back when CRTs were normal
13:52:17 <wob_jonas> I haven't been there in a while so I don't know if they still have it
13:52:52 <wob_jonas> magnetic field sensors would be tricky because you'd need several
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14:36:17 <arseniiv> int-e: once I overdone that and the demagnetizing system didn’t overcame that fully in a single run and I was horrified
14:36:42 <arseniiv> then a couple more offs and ons made everything normal
14:37:37 <wob_jonas> int-e: the one exhibited in the museum had a warning not to try that at home, claiming that the particular television that they have exhibited there is more resistant to that sort of abuse than normal home televisions
14:38:01 <arseniiv> also when I played this way I was concerned that I could be irradiated with electrons
14:38:27 <wob_jonas> also I only recently understood how the magic color filter of CRTs actually works, because no book actually explains that, and it seems a priori impossible
14:40:07 <wob_jonas> the trick is that both the position and the direction of the electron beam can vary, the different colored beams have different points of origin, and the color mask at the screen has long thin parallel holes such that rays in some direction can pass through but in other directions can't, so eg. only rays from the bottom source can pass through to w
14:40:07 <wob_jonas> here the screen is painted with red glowy material
14:41:16 <wob_jonas> this wasn't obvious to me because cameras and color TFT displays don't need such magic, they just have individual pixels right behind colored windows
14:41:36 <wob_jonas> the pixels being a light sensor in cameras or an LCD segment in a TFT display
14:42:10 <arseniiv> yeah, I’ve read about that thing in a book on electronics and DIY radiothings, though it should seem like magic anyway, the accuracy of things’ placement and all
14:42:22 <wob_jonas> the books only told about the tiny holes and three different colors of glowy material in the CRT screen, but not that they were long holes to filter by direction of the ray
14:43:23 <wob_jonas> well, some of it is still magic of course, like how the three beams can hit close to the same place of the monitor accurately enough, plus the part that decodes the luma and chroma signals, including the delay line
14:43:49 <int-e> wob_jonas: I knew about the three rays.
14:44:07 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Palaiologos * New user account
14:44:47 <arseniiv> don’t remember what was exactly in that book, but I decided then that it filters what could get to where. Though I don’t seem to remember that the holes are long
14:45:06 <wob_jonas> as for accuracy, given that the whole thing is inside a huge glass jar that is entirely closed airtight, yes, that is also impossible in a ship-in-a-bottle way
14:45:22 <int-e> (Why else would you need a mask in front? B&W TV's don't have that. But don't ask me where I learned that... maybe that russian book about modern computer hardware from the 80s?)
14:46:29 <wob_jonas> int-e: well the books made it sound like the mask is thin, and the ray is somehow synchronized with the mask so it knows when it hits which color, like hitting the red hole then the green hole alternatingly
14:46:31 <int-e> wob_jonas: hmm maybe there's more to that trick than I thought.
14:46:47 <wob_jonas> and that would make more sense to me a priori, only
14:47:14 <wob_jonas> you can tell that's not how it works because color CRT computer monitors have an adjustment knob to fine tune the horizontal position and size of the image,
14:47:24 <int-e> I thought the mask was thin but at a certain distance from the display surface. But maybe that doesn't actually work.
14:47:39 <wob_jonas> and it can work in different resolutions that aren't just multiples of a base resolution (though it certainly doubles scan lines in low res modes too)
14:47:44 <arseniiv> int-e: same
14:47:51 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, that's probably what happens
14:47:52 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63557&oldid=63524 * Palaiologos * (+312)
14:48:01 <wob_jonas> the point is that it cares about the direction of the ray
14:48:02 <arseniiv> though I thought not so far, maybe millimeters away
14:48:08 <wob_jonas> two thin masks is fine
14:48:13 <int-e> yeah, that I knew
14:48:27 <esowiki> [[Seed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63558&oldid=50067 * Palaiologos * (-217) Seed is turing complete.
14:48:39 <wob_jonas> and yes, also the reaction to magnets wouldn't make sense that way
14:48:53 <wob_jonas> mind you, the reaction to magnets still doesn't make sense this way either
14:49:14 <int-e> it makes even more sense if you realize that switching these rays on and off quickly is a huge challenge, as is focusing them tightly... which is why CRT monitors were usually quite blurry.
14:49:26 <arseniiv> I haven’t really thought much about what one can deduce by that magnetic experiment
14:49:35 <arseniiv> s/by/from
14:49:55 <wob_jonas> int-e: right... though I'm not so sold, so by that time they weren't too blurry, they had a decent image
14:50:02 <wob_jonas> s/sold/old/
14:50:03 <int-e> wob_jonas: the magnets bend the rays
14:50:41 <arseniiv> also I think they magnetize some parts of the screen
14:50:46 <arseniiv> maybe even the mask
14:50:59 <int-e> (those electrons are not all that fast... I wonder how fast they actually are...
14:51:00 <wob_jonas> int-e: most of the blurryness and errors actually came from the VGA cable by then, not the monitor itself
14:51:08 <wob_jonas> and even that is much better than composite signal
14:51:34 <arseniiv> I wonder, can one do quantum-mechanical experiments on a CRT or oscilloscope?..
14:52:05 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: sure, you do the experiment and have the computer display the result on the CRT
14:52:11 <arseniiv> they say electrons are a hard material to make even the double-slit experiment
14:52:11 <int-e> ("not all that fast" will still be close to the speed of light because elctrons are so ridiculously light)
14:52:24 <arseniiv> much harder than photons
14:52:46 <arseniiv> <wob_jonas> arseniiv: sure, you do the experiment and have the computer display the result on the CRT => (rofl)
14:53:19 <int-e> arseniiv: I imagine that the main difficulty is that you need a near vacuum.
14:53:27 <wob_jonas> what, did you think computers with CRT were only for video games, and scientist had to use hardcopy terminals?
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14:54:00 <arseniiv> hm had someone made a muon CRT, such a useless thing
14:54:57 <arseniiv> muonochrome television^W^W
14:55:00 <wob_jonas> also, I'm starting to experiment with Consumer society, made a dumb proof of concept interpreter, tried to name a hello world file, and now trying to figure out what file extension I should use for Consumer society files, since ".cs" is used for csharp source files
14:55:39 <int-e> Hah, how not to explain stuff: "A black-and-white TV has a single electron gun, while a color TV needs three guns because each pixel on the screen is made of a red, a green and a blue dot."
14:56:43 <int-e> . o O ( let's shoot 150 red electrons, 120 blue electrons and 30 green ones. )
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14:59:20 <arseniiv> we should thank heavens those aren’t proton guns, as the rays could easily cross each other somewhere near the mask
15:00:14 <arseniiv> though in that case CRT-bearing machines would be the happy ones having not a single ghost in them
15:01:00 <arseniiv> or at least not having them in a CRT part, specifically. But that ensures almost no ghosts sufficiently near CRT too
15:01:33 <arseniiv> oh there is a shower outside, suddenly
15:01:56 <arseniiv> and it gone so dark
15:02:19 <arseniiv> and I have no proton CRT to fend away possible ghosts
15:05:09 <wob_jonas> Now I have to write some basic arithmetic, such as addition and less-than comparison
15:09:47 <esowiki> [[User:Palaiologos]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63559 * Palaiologos * (+816) Created page with "Hello! I'm creator of various to brainfuck compilers and esoteric language theoretican. My work includes: * Izmit compiler series. Izmit 1 and Izmit 2 were partially lost whe..."
15:09:56 <esowiki> [[User:Palaiologos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63560&oldid=63559 * Palaiologos * (-4)
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16:29:33 <zzo38> I played GURPS game recently; this time my character went back to his home and then four weeks later something else happen so we have to go somewhere else, again.
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17:37:17 <b_jonas> `olist 1167
17:37:18 <HackEso> olist 1167: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
17:42:47 <arseniiv> doughnuts are the devil
17:43:19 <arseniiv> I am so into them when they are freshly-cooked and present
17:43:24 <arseniiv> this is bad
17:43:44 <arseniiv> this is a sin, though I’m not religious at all
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17:59:55 <ski> why's it bad ?
18:09:16 <arseniiv> it’s an existential taint
18:10:48 <arseniiv> also it’s said that something in freshly-fried dough irritates stomach
18:11:01 <arseniiv> especially for me :(
18:11:18 <arseniiv> I hope nothing will occur, though
18:12:00 <arseniiv> I have eaten only a part of them and will hold myself in check
18:12:31 <arseniiv> ski: ^
18:13:19 <ski> okay
18:14:33 <arseniiv> :D
18:15:05 <ski> perhaps you can eat only a part of all of them
18:15:52 <ski> hm, i wonder whether one can bake doughnuts in the oven
18:16:04 <arseniiv> it may be tasty too
18:16:47 <ski> or, one could try putting them in boiling soup
18:17:51 <arseniiv> it would be a soup with these things I don’t know the name of
18:18:01 <ski> knödel ?
18:18:21 <arseniiv> seems like this
18:18:25 <ski> now i want to make a soup. it's your fault ;)
18:18:37 <arseniiv> a soup is at least less sinuous
18:18:44 <arseniiv> or how do you put it
18:18:50 <arseniiv> sinister
18:18:55 <ski> @wn sinuous
18:18:56 <lambdabot> *** "sinuous" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
18:18:56 <lambdabot> sinuous
18:18:56 <lambdabot> adj 1: curved or curving in and out; "wiggly lines" [syn:
18:18:56 <lambdabot> {sinuate}, {sinuous}, {wiggly}]
18:19:09 <arseniiv> sincere
18:19:16 <arseniiv> I think it is
18:19:26 <ski> all of those are sins, you know
18:19:32 <b_jonas> do make a soup then
18:19:43 <b_jonas> also "sinful"
18:19:52 <arseniiv> ski: ah so I’ll will use any of them next time
18:20:03 <arseniiv> b_jonas: is it a borrowing?
18:20:21 <b_jonas> what?
18:20:25 <b_jonas> no, don't borrow the soup
18:20:26 <arseniiv> s/a borrowing/a recent borrowing
18:20:35 <arseniiv> I mean, “sinful”
18:20:42 <ski> s/borrowing/loan word/ ?
18:21:05 <arseniiv> yeah
18:21:18 <arseniiv> though the dictionary says this goes too
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18:23:50 * ski . o O ( "On 19 October 2016, relics of Seraphim were launched into space aboard the Soyuz MS-02." )
18:33:02 <b_jonas> which Seraphim? Seraphim a christian saint, or Seraphim a previous spacecraft?
18:33:30 <b_jonas> oh wait
18:33:37 <b_jonas> there was no Seraphim spacecraft
18:33:42 <b_jonas> you must mean a saint then
18:39:13 <ski> Серафим Саровский, yes
18:47:49 <b_jonas> I don't know why I thought it was a spacecraft. Soviet spacecrafts actually had simple names like "peace" and stuff. Maybe because of the fictional space station "Ark Angel" in the Anthony Horowitz book.
18:49:15 <b_jonas> It's the American ones that had fancy names like that.
18:54:00 <arseniiv> someone needs to name their one Hypothenuse
18:56:41 <b_jonas> someone needs to name their son Pedrillo
19:02:00 * ski . o O ( "Hypo the muse" )
19:11:51 <b_jonas> `? seraphim
19:11:52 <HackEso> seraphim? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:33:05 <shachaf> серафими многоꙮчитїи
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19:50:41 <arseniiv> oh I forgor about ꙮ
20:22:56 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63561&oldid=62387 * Cortex * (+31)
20:23:11 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63562&oldid=63561 * Cortex * (+2)
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21:22:20 <b_jonas> `? people who taneb is not
21:22:21 <HackEso> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
21:22:30 <b_jonas> ^ Is that still pending approval? Taneb: have you rejected that yet?
21:27:34 <b_jonas> `? spoilers
21:27:35 <HackEso> spoilers? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:27:37 <b_jonas> `? spoiler
21:27:38 <HackEso> spoiler? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:28:38 <b_jonas> `? rogue one
21:28:39 <HackEso> Any regular who gives the slightest Rogue One spoiler shall be hunted down in real life and have their intestines removed through their eye sockets. Members would not be exempt if they existed, which they don't.
21:29:15 <shachaf> `dowg rogue one
21:29:18 <HackEso> 9994:2016-12-17 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn Rogue One//Any regular who gives the slightest Rogue One spoiler shall be hunted down in real life and have their intestines removed through their eye sockets. Members would not be exempt if they existed, which they don\'t.
21:29:26 <shachaf> seems obsolete
21:33:35 <b_jonas> `? people who taneb is not
21:33:36 <b_jonas> `quote 993
21:33:36 <HackEso> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
21:33:37 <HackEso> 993) <Taneb> I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention
21:34:42 <b_jonas> should I edit the entry to say he's also not Queen Elizabeth the first?
21:47:00 <esowiki> [[User:Gamer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63563&oldid=60500 * Gamer * (-141)
21:47:30 <esowiki> [[User:Gamer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63564&oldid=63563 * Gamer * (+17)
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21:56:15 <b_jonas> ``` perl -pi -e's/Bond\K/, Queen Elizabeth the first/' wisdom/p*aneb*
21:56:17 <HackEso> No output.
21:56:22 <b_jonas> `? people who taneb is not
21:56:23 <HackEso> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
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22:01:57 <int-e> hum
22:02:06 <int-e> `hwrl people who taneb is not
22:02:09 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/people%20who%20taneb%20is%20not
22:03:25 <int-e> `? _͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞
22:03:26 <HackEso> _͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:06:12 <int-e> this is a saddening blog post: https://community.idera.com/developer-tools/b/blog/posts/multicast-events-using-generics
22:06:36 <int-e> it's all going smoothly... and then there's the implementation of InternalAdd & co.
22:07:39 <int-e> (Maybe Delphi should have an unsafeCoerce to avoid dropping down to the assembly level for this. This was 2008 though; I wonder whether things have changed in the meantime.)
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22:08:53 <ais523> N2263 is fascinating: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2263.htm (it's a proposal for actually sorting out the rules in C for what you can and can't do with pointer values)
22:09:00 <int-e> `welcome ais523
22:09:01 <HackEso> ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
22:13:40 <int-e> Hmmm "if and only if".
22:14:44 <int-e> ("if and only if" does not work well with side conditions. I'm looking at the proposal for §6.5.9#6)
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23:21:00 <imode> that graph manipulation language that was mentioned yesterday has morphed into visual and textual forms. :)
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23:43:32 <arseniiv> BTW I was thinking about that chemical language idea and it occurred to me that it’s reasonable to add an ambient temperature which can be changed in reactions, slowly goes to 0 otherwise, and influences stability of different bonds (so that some will simply break if the temperature is high enough)
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