< 1562112027 153811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; the old RFC isn't Y2K compliant, but RFC 3977 is Y2K compliant, and that is what is implemented. < 1562112340 622101 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few extensions though, such as the POSTQUIT command. It is meant for in case you prepare a POSTQUIT file, with POSTQUIT on the first line and . on the last line, and then you can use a command such as "nc zzo38computer.org 119 < article" to post it. In order to avoid duplicate postings, a message ID can be included; it will reject it if it already has a message with the same message ID. < 1562112370 821838 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSTQUIT is like POST, except that after posting successfully or in case of any error, it closes the connection immediately, so that it does not try to interpret part of your message as commands. < 1562112633 608306 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a nice simple way of pre-composing messages and posting without special tools. < 1562112793 995962 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am playing a ZZT game called Faux Amis. It is good. (I also made a ZZT game, called XYZABCDE.ZZT. I think the person who made this ZZT game intends to review mine in future too.) < 1562114211 503990 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had started playing XYZABCDE.ZZT, it was funny, but to complete properly required more time and strategy than I had at the time. I recently got Baba is You (late to the party). I thought the overloading of 'is' would annoy me, but it is a fun mechanic. < 1562114759 82862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lie < 1562114760 661012 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. < 1562114764 516180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lie group < 1562114767 972565 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lie groups are groups that try being too smooth for their own good. < 1562114832 819170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the game Baba Is You, but I have seen some screenshots, and it look like interesting idea. Also the book Godel,Escher,Bach in one part, they suggest a chess variant where the rules are defined by the configuration of pieces on the board, so I thought of that too. < 1562116864 681222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1562117009 455321 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? < 1562117012 300689 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember that part < 1562117014 487597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does sound similar < 1562117088 186490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: people have complained about the science in the Order of the Stick too, but it rarely comes up <-- that's fantasy, so i don't _expect_ it to follow science, while Schlock Mercenary sometimes makes a point of referring to real science and gets it wrong < 1562117151 913713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also i want to add SEASONS DON'T WORK THAT WAY EITHER to yesterday's outburst, i didn't notice the part where they conflated "summer" with "close to sun" until later < 1562117154 917304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1562117193 324548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to check if it got worse today :P < 1562117260 603159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe it got a bit better < 1562117518 372075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note to spiders: stay away from b_jonas) < 1562117842 242445 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1562117883 613767 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562118291 297705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode □ < 1562118292 32424 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+25A1 WHITE SQUARE] < 1562118306 347521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pesky non-replacement characters < 1562118560 902211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even of Order of the Stick and Schlock Mercenary don't, I do intend to have better science in the story I wrote (with the recording of stuff in the GURPS game) (except for the magic spells, of course, which are not so scientific) < 1562118717 569075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they try to refer to real science but do it wrong, well, that is even worse. < 1562118888 181160 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, there is stuff such as: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Artistic_License_Indexes < 1562122603 142285 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dycrlhdzcmlnmahs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1562123484 273268 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1562123665 293883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Catarang 5* 10New user account > 1562124130 605811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DerpScrp14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63885 5* 03A 5* (+537) 10Created page with "[[DerpScrp]], not to be confused with [[Derplang|similarly]] [[Derpcode|named]] languages, is an [[esoteric programming language]] created in 2019 influenced by the syntax of..." > 1562124569 692318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DerpScrp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63886&oldid=63885 5* 03A 5* (+256) 10/* Examples (Currently there are only examples) */ > 1562125181 561052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DerpScrp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63887&oldid=63886 5* 03A 5* (+1274) 10 > 1562125378 213116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DerpScrp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63888&oldid=63887 5* 03A 5* (+157) 10 > 1562125813 797945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Derpodce14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63889 5* 03A 5* (+1537) 10Another "Derp" derivative > 1562126833 391071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ruined BASIC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63890&oldid=63647 5* 03A 5* (+404) 10 > 1562127031 319427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ruined BASIC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63891&oldid=63890 5* 03A 5* (+185) 10/* Computational class */ > 1562127184 23617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ruined BASIC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63892&oldid=63891 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10/* Example programs */ < 1562128707 570741 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1562132593 420604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if gil is going to appreciate what tarvek just did. assuming it _did_ work. < 1562135297 570297 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1562135460 712324 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1562135499 848290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1562136530 523607 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1562142359 172365 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it kind of felt like *both* personalities have been removed < 1562143586 599220 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562144037 840598 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1562144764 667852 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1562146717 623150 :ben`!~user@wlan-145-94-187-134.wlan.tudelft.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1562148714 941608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite dazzling < 1562149652 235210 :ben`!~user@wlan-145-94-187-134.wlan.tudelft.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1562150415 973338 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ippluqshijclsbmk JOIN :#esoteric < 1562152214 560091 :ben`!~user@wlan-145-94-187-134.wlan.tudelft.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1562152926 241939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562155785 493102 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562155793 974747 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, I just realized ... are you named of ZZT? < 1562155873 315188 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fetch < 1562155874 533975 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`fetch [] downloads files, and is the only web access currently available in HackEgo. It is a special builtin that cannot be called from other commands. See also `edit. < 1562155884 542733 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? edit < 1562155885 482686 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`edit gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Sync (unless making a new file) (2) Make your changes (3) Press Save (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel. < 1562155904 662329 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: you can use those to upload small files to HackEso if you want < 1562155965 184117 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: missing mouse cursor is difficult to debug because there are a lot of different causes it could have < 1562156133 686317 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, int-e: re parallelizing SAT solvers, somehow that reminds me of the esoteric way to add an accurate progress bar to anything: < 1562156176 589331 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :display 0%, do the entire job but measure how much real time it takes, display 10%, wait as much time as the job took, display 20%, wait as much time as the job took, display 30%, etc, display 100% < 1562156506 188209 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like this joke. https://twitter.com/reedie72/status/1139298459591143424 "A database query walks up to 2 tables in a bar... Mind if I join you?" < 1562158100 306117 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ippluqshijclsbmk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1562160484 575022 :ben`!~user@wlan-145-94-187-134.wlan.tudelft.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1562160884 170256 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562161130 617997 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1562161131 365181 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1562161301 111457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1562161389 283485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric > 1562162142 994356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63893&oldid=63836 5* 03A 5* (+2642) 10 > 1562162218 805170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63894&oldid=63893 5* 03A 5* (+40) 10/* Statements */ > 1562163080 142119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63895&oldid=63894 5* 03A 5* (-234) 10 > 1562163571 766744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63896&oldid=63895 5* 03A 5* (+397) 10/* Extended H Reference */ > 1562163810 367793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bit~14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63897&oldid=62369 5* 03RealUndefined 5* (-45) 10 < 1562164925 493771 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1562165552 452115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63898&oldid=63896 5* 03A 5* (+785) 10/* Extended H Reference */ > 1562166618 903933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63899&oldid=63898 5* 03A 5* (+1163) 10/* Extended H Reference */ > 1562166720 567399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/H spec14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63900&oldid=63899 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* Extended H Reference */ < 1562167270 265650 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host31-54-142-171.range31-54.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1562167774 821115 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation for Reality Adlib Tracker (which I converted to a plain text document, because the HTML of it isn't very good) fails to mention that algorithms 2 and 3 are not valid for the last three channels, but by looking at the source codes of the playback software, that seems to be the case. (I only downloaded the playback software; it includes source-codes and is for Windows, but I could modify it to work on Linux too.) < 1562167924 177503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OPL3 only has six 4op channels, although Reality Adlib Tracker uses nine channels. Algorithm 4 and 5 and 6 are emulated by use of two 2op channels, so those algorithms can still be used on the last three channels.) < 1562168264 585958 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1562168297 556397 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1562168625 33506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders, not for the first time, what zzo38 is doing for a living.
< 1562168650 664746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideas include: Technician at a computer museum. < 1562168946 555050 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go back to the computer museum here < 1562169062 151539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I have to go back... to the Mansion! ) < 1562169096 891003 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I don't understand you reference ) < 1562169130 409353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only one of the best computer games ever. (IMHO) But it's from the mid 90s so probably too old for you. < 1562169163 160891 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also from the mid 90s so maybe < 1562169165 20975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.gog.com/game/day_of_the_tentacle_remastered < 1562169184 797802 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That said I'm playing through the Monkey Island games with my partner < 1562169338 616143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "Mansion" is Maniac Mansion. I didn't like that game so much, because I never got very far... I didn't find one crucial pixel.) < 1562169351 701523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But DoTT is great. < 1562169413 961690 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the remastered version is true to the original. It has better graphics resolution, and perhaps a few more hints (I didn't notice those). I liked it.) < 1562169981 474665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1562169998 431913 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wow cool design < 1562170066 677891 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I found out why that infinite loop was giving an error < 1562170092 152558 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh those Python code typos) < 1562170106 559306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what infinite loop? < 1562170134 471426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[__+][][]? < 1562170222 727777 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had written “if state is CodeChunk” when it needed to be “if type(state) is CodeChunk”, and the code resetting instruction pointer in that code block wasn’t run, and __+ was not reëvaluated < 1562170248 758868 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm those dots are indeed strange when you read them) < 1562170278 141701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: don't you want if instanceof(state, CodeChunk) ? < 1562170296 469674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using type() for that is usually not a good practice < 1562170306 891458 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I’d write that, but I intend not to subclass there < 1562170321 531516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be semantically cumbersome < 1562170328 833078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.python.org/3/faq/programming.html#how-do-i-check-if-an-object-is-an-instance-of-a-given-class-or-of-a-subclass-of-it < 1562170343 695816 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's `if isinstance(state, CodeChunk)` < 1562170349 857237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hade the name wrong < 1562170419 813888 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, one time I had made the same mistake < 1562170430 923938 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing “instanceof” < 1562170450 252163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much easier in ruby, you just write CodeChunk === state < 1562170476 554058 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn’t it weird? What === does? < 1562170482 660674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1562170513 645754 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's smartmatch, what it does depends on the type of the lhs < 1562170521 534248 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1562170531 982503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the lhs is a class, it checks for class membership < 1562170537 605886 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably should have named it ~= or something < 1562170545 335081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a range, checks for between < 1562170551 209985 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=== reminds of identity check < 1562170633 110076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in JavaScript === means check if two values are the same value, except NaN and positive/negative zero; Object.is() will also check if two values are same, even NaN and positive/negative zero. < 1562170765 63691 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: try to run _ _+ _+ _+~ _+~ _+~ _+~ _+ _+ [α+][α+;#][]?; in your interpreter, it may print �a0 (and some control chars) and finish, though a compliant implementation should output a single byte and then make a bad error noise < 1562170785 75975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, it shouldn’t < 1562170795 764013 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s UB < 1562170812 475046 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I can't run that. < 1562170838 653890 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something from yet unsupported subset? < 1562170880 951095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since α+ counts from the topmost bar... < 1562170900 343085 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that always the top element of the stack? < 1562171015 349096 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-syaplprucgdcuein QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1562171293 45025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ugh. < 1562171332 257875 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoding unicode points as bytes isn't so great for α < 1562171385 957303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: just have the interpreter take a..x instead < 1562171402 403414 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use an encoding other than Unicode if you want with bytes, is another possibility, although accepting ASCII characters probably is better < 1562171408 695537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I just did that. < 1562171465 532354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't see why accepting alpha to omega is that bad. that's still just two bytes, and the first byte is fixed < 1562171621 839259 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :DotT is nice :) < 1562171683 176413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is that always the top element of the stack? => no, when there are no explicitly placed bars (as here), it’s the bottom element < 1562171696 941741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I meant in your example. < 1562171711 976515 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1562171733 153450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I've replaced α+ by a- now, which in my interpreter, dups the top element of the stack. < 1562171757 208262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I felt some sort of duplication was needed... but without bars, the top is really the only reasonable reference point ;) ) < 1562171771 535052 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should make a breaking change and replace bars for something more manageable < 1562171784 858450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, make the language better earlier < 1562171806 614420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :before it gets so widely adapted that there's code relying on the current behavior < 1562171814 447132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that that's likely for most esolangs, but still) < 1562171947 880810 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be a “section start index” which we would set via | and there would be a “cut section” operation, let’s say -, which cuts out all consecutive elements between section start index and the index specified in this command < 1562171969 65762 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and + and = would index from that section start index < 1562171975 910589 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :topwards, still < 1562171993 728384 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: anyway, this was basically expected: Ã*** Exception: Punctree.hs:(87,5)-(89,58): Non-exhaustive patterns in function go < 1562172002 419992 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, a normal stack without any strange uncountable bars < 1562172052 593122 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it means the impl is incomplete or maybe that the context represents an incomplete byte? < 1562172074 759258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no it means that ; doesn't like printing a 7-bit character < 1562172114 535712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is undefined behavior (and probably what you alluded to) < 1562172131 570913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except that apparently you expected it to not just "crash") < 1562172144 268199 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also, how do you find the change? I think I’ll do it anyway just for the simplification. It breaks, but I think it will break my code more than yours(?) < 1562172163 512486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no code relating to bars. < 1562172173 138951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think you'll only hurt yourself. < 1562172182 894613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, a crash is a perfectly valid UB here. I was just playing with loops and got up with that example < 1562172221 173974 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I considered adding typechecking (not to the specification) but then bars confused the matters < 1562172239 829630 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without them, though, it should be not that hard < 1562172245 89251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even terribly mind the bars, except that it's odd to count stack positions from the bottom of the frame. < 1562172264 744082 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I haven't made up my mind about how to best implement them) < 1562172286 487447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly mind the ability to pop through a frame boundary < 1562172287 818943 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the spirit, it makes the stack useful to store “named variables” < 1562172312 909376 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can treat α…ω in gr+, gr= commands as a temporary names < 1562172318 196883 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for variables < 1562172347 34672 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without bars, I guarantee it would be easier < 1562172369 550281 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I’m currently lazy to rewrite the page and my impl too < 1562172385 92704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll make a note to myself < 1562172412 720483 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because that means a simple pattern match isn't sufficient for popping elements... you actually have to do some scanning of the stack. This is not entirely true; one representation I thought about was a list alternating between trees and integers that count bars.) < 1562172500 540730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so popping would collapse i : t' : j : ... into i+j : ..., and the popped value is t'. < 1562172564 480226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd much prefer modeling the stack as a list of frames. < 1562172792 810711 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: now you could divide the stack into two frames (before section start and after it) < 1562173163 975737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: The more I think about it, the more I believe the bars are just fine (maybe not esoteric, but fine)... if you couldn't pop through them. < 1562173230 688868 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmmm that would simplify something too < 1562173248 474967 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would allow representing the stack as a list of frames < 1562173272 991714 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(each frame is a list of values; the bars are between consecutive frames) < 1562173280 112191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! do you want multiple bars separating frames so that each frame can have its own local variables named by greek letters? < 1562173315 499482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the representation is possible anyway, but without popping through bars, access to the top element of the stack is much simpler) < 1562173350 215820 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though | command is still not nice, it could divide a frame not at the top, and in which way should we index elements in this case anyway? < 1562173383 280028 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but only the topmost frame is indexable by letters < 1562173383 462919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ah I'd want to restrict that to the top frame as well, as you suggest. < 1562173392 259834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: right < 1562173407 747161 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I’d agree to that, it’s consistent with pop change < 1562173415 948064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: arguably adding all that sanity makes stuff less esoteric :P < 1562173432 728133 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you think about infinitely many empty frames at the bottom of the stack? < 1562173442 494518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otoh you can voluntarily adhere to these constraints anyway... and I probably would) < 1562173496 624241 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hopefully context manipulation is esoteric enough to outweigh still < 1562173498 895711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: seems like an arbitrary choice to me :) < 1562173533 401320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(intuitively: pick an arbitrary solution to concat xs = []) < 1562173563 753761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concat (repeat []) -- of course this doesn't work < 1562173569 775059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we could restrict gr|, gr+, gr= as suggested and it will make implementation way easier < 1562173570 17975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1562173637 62969 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this doesn't work => yeah, it should start in the infinite past and then finish abruptly at a finite time, then concat would be fine < 1562173735 499401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your idea is good for typechecking too < 1562174072 116075 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also initially I thought about stack frame implementation, but the former behavior had a sobering effect < 1562175656 328890 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1562176727 624945 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1562177139 649680 :sleepnap!~thomas@97.112.26.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562179513 557159 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.156.180 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1562182781 18119 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9d8e:8dc7:899c:f471 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562183966 555949 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1562185855 360406 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1562186837 393940 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host31-54-142-171.range31-54.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1562187195 408524 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1562188252 669432 :sleepnap!~thomas@97.112.26.43 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. > 1562188255 893373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ByteByteJump14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63901&oldid=54346 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (-11) 10/* External resources */ < 1562188337 489124 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1562189159 275613 :sleepnap!~thomas@047-224-047-020.res.spectrum.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1562189160 839802 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1562190384 70724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Punctree14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63902&oldid=63870 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+466) 10/* Runtime */ restricting bar-related behavior as suggested by int-e; description in terms of frames > 1562191885 373618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Punctree14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63903&oldid=63902 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+232) 10/* Implementations */ new! < 1562191928 294849 :sleepnap!~thomas@047-224-047-020.res.spectrum.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1562191986 398700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the code is not unreadable < 1562192092 82024 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mainly writing it in a giant cell in a Jupyter notebook (and testing small snippets in a bunch of tiny cells), this may take its toll < 1562192175 706610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I’m not completely sure what things should be marked as “don’t touch” (a Python’s take on private) by underscores < 1562192250 119216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, totally unrelated < 1562192269 71295 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone looked at the ICFP contest? I should look at what it's about < 1562192521 653825 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9d8e:8dc7:899c:f471 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1562192720 269259 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9d8e:8dc7:899c:f471 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562192814 25211 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1562193549 824784 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1562193971 151360 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ski < 1562194457 914946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in M:tG, https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/core-set-2020-update-bulletin-2019-07-03 Core Set 2020 Update Bulletin < 1562194975 216267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.149 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1562195511 186933 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9d8e:8dc7:899c:f471 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1562195947 999290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-197.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1562196764 232327 :sleepnap!~thomas@97.112.26.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562197521 789626 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9d8e:8dc7:899c:f471 JOIN :#esoteric < 1562197794 794713 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9d8e:8dc7:899c:f471 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds