< 1564016099 486377 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:409f:c171:14b1:214 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564016542 328993 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1564017286 465755 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564020243 634469 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1564020281 893624 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564021858 481332 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1564021866 103381 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1564022046 935821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64681&oldid=64679 5* 03A 5* (+179) 10/* Race conditions */ < 1564022098 485209 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:47a:cb5:c46e:273b JOIN :#esoteric < 1564022146 681938 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fhvlyayfzegmifzp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1564022365 630954 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:409f:c171:14b1:214 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds > 1564022415 698531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DoggyDogWhirl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64682&oldid=64505 5* 03DoggyDogWhirl 5* (+2620) 10Elevators. < 1564023629 489263 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:a016:4d73:60a8:e66c JOIN :#esoteric < 1564023726 353486 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFC IE 3 < 1564023728 282332 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you decide that your users have had enough browsing for one day, you can even cause their browser to quit. An example script shows how to link actions to some of the events included in the object model. Be careful before you try this out, because your browser will quit." < 1564023756 964846 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ia802904.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/7/items/ACTIVEX_FOR_DUMMIES/ACTIVE_X.iso&file=CHAP13%2FINDEX.HTM < 1564023886 485372 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:47a:cb5:c46e:273b QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1564024717 102574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Have you seen https://home.sandiego.edu/~shulman/papers/lcm-bloomington-talk.pdf ? < 1564024734 475135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also other people here who like linear or constructive logic, or who like good things. < 1564024940 900946 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:d0c5:34ca:631e:91f5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564025106 960896 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1564025134 321832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64683&oldid=64681 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Race conditions */ < 1564025212 486912 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:a016:4d73:60a8:e66c QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds > 1564025233 854710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64684&oldid=64683 5* 03A 5* (+213) 10/* Sidex solutions (check if this is okay) */ < 1564025389 500222 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1564025472 972012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sidex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64685&oldid=64673 5* 03A 5* (+874) 10/* Sidex walkthrough */ < 1564025566 251986 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1564025679 485940 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:e84b:a1d2:5d2e:a26a JOIN :#esoteric < 1564025943 905170 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:d0c5:34ca:631e:91f5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1564026789 475127 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-cvjmmijyxtzrslvv QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1564026800 642168 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-igrwvuapzenxmbay JOIN :#esoteric < 1564027245 680808 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:1d3e:c7bc:fb21:3af5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564027368 500694 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564027474 496548 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:e84b:a1d2:5d2e:a26a QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1564027531 841064 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea, end all statements with ~.\n < 1564027554 538199 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1564027626 745160 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait ssh is configurable with that thing < 1564027851 511330 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:8d21:824d:3a84:5492 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564027981 491596 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:1d3e:c7bc:fb21:3af5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1564029807 478352 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564030048 501839 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:2443:d2f:7bc:ba1a:ae79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1564031998 493687 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564032111 892202 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1564032353 469889 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1564032636 556671 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@cpe-67-249-136-214.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1564032661 591524 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b184:5c00:8d21:824d:3a84:5492 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1564033200 558509 :doesthiswork!~doesthisw@98.125.174.165 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1564033770 524683 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@cpe-67-249-136-214.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1564035360 50117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64686&oldid=63582 5* 03Void 5* (+55) 10/* Jumping processes */ < 1564038176 833424 :kolontaev!~kolontaev@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1564038893 421897 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1564039594 72778 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1564040035 861240 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1564040059 998921 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1564041282 603032 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1564041469 435089 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564044545 101376 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1564044552 39222 :sprock1em!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1564044654 964219 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564044699 686667 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning. < 1564044715 139435 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, cpressey < 1564044723 801209 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time zone are you in currently? < 1564044829 299796 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BST, but isn't there some IRC command you can run to find that out? < 1564044877 313460 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it with CTCP but that always feels rude to me < 1564044890 926422 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's equally easy to just ask, if you prefer the human touch. < 1564044920 820496 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BST is a good time zone to be in, I feel < 1564045131 229747 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564045402 828919 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday, I learned that there are some theories that have only one model (up to isomorphism), they're called "categorical" theories, and this pleases me greatly, because non-standard models kind of freak me out and I'd rather not think about them. < 1564045442 392811 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, a lot of them sound kind of trviial < 1564045609 975165 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the categorical theories that is, not the non-standard models. quite the opposite actually.) < 1564045789 45984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You can ask where someone's IRC client is, but not where they are. < 1564046112 699723 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In a similar vein, you can ask me where I claim I am, but not where I actually am. < 1564046147 891987 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I claim to be in Cambridge < 1564046196 442700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but I'd much rather know where you claim you are than where your IRC client claims it is. < 1564046206 451483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't actually particularly want to know either one. < 1564046269 43030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might go to Cambridge in a few months. < 1564046390 726927 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might leave for unrelated reasons < 1564046682 379383 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thought of visiting Cambridge crossed my mind briefly, recently, but mainly because I saw a train destined for there. I have no good reason to visit there myself. < 1564046781 332293 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I visit anywhere, it's more likely to be, I dunno, Cheddar. < 1564046841 549612 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the cave art. Also, I understand there's a cheese from that region? < 1564047698 732385 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid question -- how to tell if one theory A is more expressive than some other theory B? I mean, the trivial answer is, find something you can express in A that you can't express in B, but -- do logicians have a nomenclature for this, a study of this? < 1564047787 879152 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computability and complexity has its classes like RE, R, PR, NEXP, NP, P, NL, etc, and we know some of the relations between them and there are some diagrams, etc. < 1564047798 758695 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do logicians have anything comparable? < 1564047872 357365 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, I understand you can map a lot of logics to these classes too, and that would count, but is there anywhere they've written a lot of them down? < 1564047884 833157 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Complexity zoo" except for logical theories? < 1564048347 608186 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So-called Reverse Mathematics has a collection of theories and understand some of the relationships between them, but they're most interested in really weak theories < 1564049823 807952 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think perhaps there are simply too damned many of them (logical theories, that is) for this to be realistically done. < 1564053796 705176 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_complexity_theory <-- closest I've found so far. < 1564053987 122005 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo! https://people.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/ < 1564054011 298108 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, https://people.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/descriptive_complexity.html < 1564054064 170950 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now* my question becomes, where does http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EquationalLogic.html fit into that chart? < 1564056682 371177 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564056857 395506 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think the answer is yes but I don't understand the details. "Proof-theoretic ordinal" may be a relevant keyword. < 1564056925 48986 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I looked a bit at this julia language. It seems like it might be useful as a "calculator language", for when I want to do computations that start as simple as (2*8) but sometimes grow to five line long one-liners doing array operations. I've sometimes used J or octave for that. But < 1564056988 200784 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one big problem. WHY DOES IT USE ONE-BASED ARRAY INDEXING? Seriously? Haven't people seen the existing languages that do that (matlab or octave, lua, GAP, mathematica) and see how they turned out and how fucking annoying it is that you have to add 1 to your indexes or subtract 1 from them after searching whenever you do anything nontrivial? < 1564057051 883254 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't understand why anyone would do that when designing a new language that doesn't have to be too compatible with anything existing, and especially not why someone would do that if the language is supposed to be useful for numeric or array computations. < 1564057127 961926 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, this sort of language with a handy built-in library for numeric computations sounds helpful for doing calculations, but the one-based array indexing seriously scares me away. < 1564057324 438211 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for whether it's better for this than octave, I'll have to dig a bit deeper. < 1564057333 212546 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be. < 1564057347 181303 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if you hate 1-based indexing you can check out https://github.com/simonster/TwoBasedIndexing.jl < 1564057451 871665 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the joke there is that Julia's macro support is quite good. < 1564057464 235496 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. esoteric people sometimes do that. I think some old versions of perl had that built in too. < 1564057512 630784 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the problem is that it's not enough to override the index and index-assign operations, because there are a lot of other library functions that manipulate indexes, like for finding and slicing and filtering and stuff. < 1564057516 146646 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl lets you select the index base by assigning to a magic variable iirc < 1564057524 638340 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old versions of perl only. < 1564057532 839539 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... it's complicated < 1564057549 460386 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think modern versions have an improved version of that, where you can change it lexically, but only to 0 and 1 < 1564057568 646465 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: +1 on 1-based indexing < 1564057571 270494 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that kind of thing doesn't make sense to change either dynamically (as in old perl or some APLs) or lexically, < 1564057576 929717 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 NICK :arseniiv < 1564057586 434104 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because you often store array indexes in other arrays, or pass them to functions, etc. < 1564057596 346251 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just doesn't work in practice. < 1564057596 465067 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Mathematica uses 1-based. And so does R. Julia is in the same general area ("big data" "stats" "numerical computing"). So, probably that. < 1564057614 146902 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, I mentioned mathematica in the list above. < 1564057684 381200 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that R does, I have so far avoided that language. < 1564057691 786036 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some people hate qwerty keyboards too, because qwerty is awful and WRONG and etc and everyone around me including myself is using a qwerty keyboard oh well < 1564057787 506575 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? you can mix keyboard layouts is easy, because, unless perhaps you're playing video games, the things you type on the keyboard get translated to characters very early, you don't store keycodes anywhere. mixing array indexes is harder, because I do want to store indexes and pass them to all sorts of utility functions and do arithmetic on them. < 1564057816 191469 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care what keyboard layout other people use. < 1564057824 126852 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-based indexing has the only one plus side that you can index from the end by negative integers (the Python indexing scheme is in some cases irregular), though I thing backward indexing should not abuse signs at all and use something else (as e. g. in last versions of C#) < 1564057841 803922 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I speak on irc, you can't really tell what keyboard layout I used to type it, and you can read it just as easily regardless how I type it. < 1564057843 32441 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, well. I don't care about that. I think the interesting things in Julia are its macro system and its type system. And these are interesting to examine, not necessarily useful to use, for any given application. < 1564057859 644732 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that = 1-based or 0-based.) < 1564057891 292644 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I suggested to check it out. If you find it useful, too, great. If not, ok, well, sorry. < 1564057898 690313 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't know yet if I find it useful. < 1564057913 725712 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might, in the sense that it may still be more practical to use than octave. < 1564057923 468758 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll definitely look at it a bit more. < 1564057954 830086 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I like Lua too. < 1564058051 598902 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua gives some useful lessons, like it's a good example of how you can design a good C api that can work with a moving garbage collector, which is pretty rare as these things go. < 1564058072 878143 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a lot of other things in lua that I don't like, besides the 1-based indexes. < 1564058160 562749 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: statements not being expressions? < 1564058162 133056 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the negative indexing and slicing in Python reminds me of Perl. < 1564058168 720543 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x[:-1] is virtually an emoticon < 1564058200 413492 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no, that's not really my problem < 1564058235 509248 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really want to talk about lua here unless there's a good reason < 1564058245 798749 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just brought it up as another example for 1-based stuff < 1564058253 894687 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah, for ASCII-artness? For my part, I definitely find the ubiquitous x[::] copying or x[::-1] reversal ASCII-arty < 1564058271 155468 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, x[:], x[::] is redundant of course < 1564058276 786714 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe incorrect < 1564058296 618845 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ASCII-artness, and general tendency towards golfing < 1564058395 894268 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` type -a julia # just checking < 1564058396 964001 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: type: julia: not found < 1564058513 98785 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: okay, I don’t mind at all. I had learned Lua to some depth once (and now I almost forgot it) and it felt a nice example of a minimal language. For some reason I was surprised by size of its grammar. Though it seems I had known about S-expression grammar to that time, and it should be way smaller. I hadn’t used Lua even for smallest projects though < 1564058600 556061 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that time, I found quirks of length operator, or what it were, pretty strange. I skimmed some details about newest versions not that long ago and didn’t find that piece there for some reason < 1564058625 662427 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, octave and R are probably better examples, because they are geared to the same kind of numerical computation for which julia was made for < 1564058636 908292 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: which generation of the length operator? that changed like twice throughout lua < 1564058658 885217 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry never mind < 1564058661 472307 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don’t remember, alas < 1564058662 853081 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't bite on that < 1564059255 187742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1564059255 473456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 251220Z AUTO 13008KT 100V170 9999 NCD 36/17 Q1010 < 1564059271 273849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is: too hot. They're saying there's a 70% chance of exceeding the hottest temperature ever recorded in the UK (38.5°C) today. < 1564059294 890195 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, apparently julia uses a variant of python scoping for local variables, except that some control structures (for and while) make inner scopes like def in python < 1564059442 179611 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, not really, that's imprecise < 1564059447 601526 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work differently < 1564059489 360434 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that in python, an assignment without a qualifier means that a new variable is created for that scope < 1564059510 887262 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like probably a better rule than julia's in the long term, even if possibly less convenient in shorter pieces of code < 1564059528 918855 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, they're not similar at all < 1564062488 722293 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not much of a fan of Python's "now 'til the end of the definition" scoping. I prefer it when variables in inner blocks disppear when you return to the outer block. I don't remember what Julia does for that. < 1564062624 407463 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, Javascript: you can define variables at the *end* of the block if you like! < 1564064099 20593 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw wob_jonas thanks for "Proof-theoretic ordinal", it certainly seems to fit into the picture I'm looking at < 1564064260 29122 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: MathOverflow seems to have a lot of people who care about that sort of crazy formal logic stuff, at least when filtered through my perception < 1564064624 433843 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I occasionally read MO (I'm a sucker for SE's "hot network questions" when I have to look up something) and, yeah, they're like that there aren't they. I've been increasingly interested in logic lately, but set theory not so much. < 1564064756 935946 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also I keep reading David Madore's blog, in fact it's very high up there among websites I've been following for the longest time, and he sometimes talks about that sort of thing < 1564064976 237961 :user24!~user24@p4FCA30BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1564068329 664849 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564068514 547104 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1564069449 354356 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1564071500 856195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64687&oldid=64684 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1300) 10 > 1564071868 472784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Realm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64688&oldid=64433 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10Fixed some mistakes < 1564072712 370615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1564072822 514882 :doesthiswork!~doesthisw@98.125.174.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564073070 649420 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1564073935 235224 :Melvar!~melvar@ltea-178-014-120-010.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4 > 1564074010 140353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Sideshowbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64689&oldid=64619 5* 03Sideshowbob 5* (+263) 10 < 1564074021 972770 :user24!~user24@p4FCA30BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1564074047 275065 :user24!~user24@p4FCA30BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1564077886 57130 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1564077971 549996 :Reallycooluserna!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564078010 438699 :Reallycooluserna!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be clear, I AM NOT user A < 1564078113 20777 :Reallycooluserna!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone give me tips as to how to make a good C++ Compiler? < 1564078381 709463 :Reallycooluserna!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1564078396 528146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1564078757 549582 :Reallycooluserna!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564078780 661097 :Reallycooluserna!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1564081746 411384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Sidex14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=64690 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+533) 10Asked for some clarification < 1564082036 384395 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.37 QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o < 1564082579 644159 :user24!~user24@p4FCA30BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1564084245 893161 :doesthiswork!~doesthisw@98.125.174.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reallycooluserna: The more code you reject as causing undefined behavior the better your compiler is < 1564084279 670178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: so the best compiler is one that considers any code to cause undefined behaviour? < 1564084459 856891 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1564084595 479292 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1564084626 146587 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1564084944 150043 :doesthiswork!~doesthisw@98.125.174.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it has finally achieved perfection < 1564084973 997082 :doesthiswork!~doesthisw@98.125.174.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it always fulfills its contract < 1564085394 790170 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1564086413 910703 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opngjhamjfuuemat JOIN :#esoteric > 1564087365 302928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64691&oldid=64690 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+95) 10/* Language explanation */ Added my signature. > 1564087675 16076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Argv0 5* 10New user account > 1564088191 420063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swissen Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64692&oldid=64469 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+649) 10 > 1564088284 994689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64693&oldid=64591 5* 03Argv0 5* (+150) 10/* Introductions */ < 1564088391 245395 :Melvar!~melvar@ltea-178-014-120-010.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1564088761 516602 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1564090298 398702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Realm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64694&oldid=64688 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+91) 10/* Examples */ Truth test > 1564090340 858136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Realm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64695&oldid=64694 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+3) 10/* Truth-test */ Wrong link < 1564090527 257942 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1564095245 623717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64696&oldid=64687 5* 03A 5* (+595) 10/* Race conditions */ > 1564095381 412244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64697&oldid=64696 5* 03A 5* (+179) 10/* Race conditions */ > 1564095598 262449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64698&oldid=64697 5* 03A 5* (+95) 10/* Race conditions */ > 1564095845 873081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64699&oldid=64698 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Race conditions */ Tell ARCUN I have created a separate page > 1564096146 279028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64700&oldid=64653 5* 03A 5* (+95) 10I think the SM is a nop machine (prove me wrong if you could) > 1564096169 690278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64701&oldid=64700 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Oops > 1564096539 52452 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64702&oldid=64691 5* 03A 5* (+499) 10 > 1564096656 345049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64703&oldid=64699 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10/* Deadlocking */ > 1564096736 955907 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64704&oldid=64685 5* 03A 5* (-391) 10/* stopThisThread.Sidex */ > 1564096799 134669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64705&oldid=64702 5* 03A 5* (+174) 10 > 1564096912 968178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64706&oldid=64704 5* 03A 5* (+179) 10/* More concurrency */ < 1564097000 419327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1564097007 563714 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64707&oldid=64706 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* if.Sidex */ > 1564097033 652655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sidex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64708&oldid=64707 5* 03A 5* (-12) 10/* if.Sidex */ > 1564097596 396612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64709&oldid=64703 5* 03A 5* (+77) 10/* Deadlocking */ < 1564097700 662795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving