←2019-08-11 2019-08-12 2019-08-13→ ↑2019 ↑all
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04:14:14 <zzo38> My opinion is that unusenet: URIs should be used to reference a article on Usenet and Unusenet. But, as far as I know, no software implements it.
04:45:58 <zzo38> I think that Funge-98 should include the specification for in case you do not have a unique identification for your implementation, to define a handprint value specific for that use (perhaps zero).
04:46:34 <Sgeo> I never heard of Unusenet before
04:49:23 <zzo38> Sgeo: It is not well known, but, I invented Unusenet. It is a format for newsgroup hierarchy names which are not part of Usenet, and the specification also mentions a few other things (although the stuff other than the newsgroup hierarchy names is a optional specification).
04:49:53 <zzo38> Any newsgroup name that begins with the two letters "un" followed by one or more digits and then a dot, is Unusenet.
05:09:53 <zzo38> I also starting to write a document for using Glk with Befunge 98.
06:56:21 <int-e> . o O ( I can't type "buf". It almost always comes out as "bug" at first. )
07:00:05 <esowiki> [[FAKE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65453 * Argv0 * (+3048) Creation of the page
07:03:02 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65454&oldid=65382 * Argv0 * (+11) Added FAKE
07:13:12 <esowiki> [[Keg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65455&oldid=65441 * JonoCode9374 * (+748) /* Command Glossary */
07:34:13 <zzo38> (If you wish to add a NNTP which isn't Usenet, please use Unusenet to assign the newsgroup name rather than assigning it arbitrarily, if possible.)
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07:37:32 <shachaf> int-e: If only all my bugs were so kind as to identify themselves like that.
07:38:14 <shachaf> zzo38: What if it's a number of digits larger than the number of atoms in the universe?
07:41:06 <int-e> shachaf: Btw, I like some aspects of Go. The slices are pretty neat. And I may also somewhat like the receiver style OO.
07:43:39 <int-e> I miss generics and overloaded operators (bignum code looks so ugly...)
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08:03:18 <shachaf> I think there are lots of nice things about Go.
08:03:56 <shachaf> I wonder whether to prefer "x.f(y)" over "f(x, y)"
08:04:17 <shachaf> I think the main benefit is that f goes in a special namespace rather than the global one.
08:04:34 <shachaf> Even if you have function overloading those are pretty different.
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09:16:39 <int-e> Oh well. My smooth number approximator in Go works.
09:34:09 <int-e> shachaf: in the end I did not use the goroutines-as-generators idea, the overhead was way too big for what I intended to do
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09:35:58 <shachaf> I thought you said something about not caring about overhead.
09:36:27 <int-e> well millions of goroutines with 2k stack space each...
09:36:34 <int-e> ...I ran out of memory
09:36:52 <int-e> And I tend to care about that.
09:38:58 <int-e> shachaf: http://paste.debian.net/1095429/ if you're curious (no particular reason why you should be)
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09:45:45 <int-e> It's about as fast as my Haskell code but it uses far less memory (the comparison is unfair though; the Haskell code does a lot of implicit bookkeeping for producing a lazy list of smooth numbers in increasing order, whereas the Go code embraces mutability instead for a similar effect.)
09:47:25 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, I know, I still have to do a better search
09:47:28 <int-e> wob_jonas: For fun, 11111111111111111051649690525458095629710973775872 is a decent 103-smooth lower approximation of 10^50/9.
09:47:46 <wob_jonas> [ try 11111111111111111051649690525458095629710973775872x
09:47:55 <wob_jonas> oh, a _lower_ approximation
09:47:56 <wob_jonas> nice
09:48:19 <wob_jonas> int-e: also, I'll probably spread this task in forums other than #esoteric, because it's a nice one
09:48:25 <wob_jonas> s/task/challenge
09:50:12 <wob_jonas> The scientist from https://www.xkcd.com/585/ return, in https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4066 of all places
09:50:16 <wob_jonas> s/ist/ists/
09:50:38 <int-e> Anyway this made a surprisingly nice target for learning some Go basics.
09:53:48 <wob_jonas> int-e: are you writing the search program such that it is parallel over multiple cpu cores, or will be in a future version?
09:55:01 <int-e> nah
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09:55:40 <wob_jonas> it doesn't need to be multi-threaded for that, you can split the search space and run multiple processes, possibly mmapping a common read-only table
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09:56:17 <int-e> There already is a top-level loop that re-runs the same kind of search with slightly different parameters.
09:57:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: right, but in parallel or only in sequence?
09:57:26 <wob_jonas> if it's in parallel, then I assume it uses multiple cpu cores
09:57:35 <int-e> In sequence, and I'm not inclined to change that.
09:57:41 <wob_jonas> (unless you're like running it on a GPU or multiple hosts or something)
09:57:47 <wob_jonas> ok
09:58:07 <wob_jonas> I'll probably run multiple in parallel, because the algorithm I'm using is eash to modify to do that
09:58:11 <int-e> Even though it would be ridiculously easy, at least locally (just spawn a "goroutine" for each task).
09:59:20 <int-e> The program is chugging away at 140% CPU usage actually. (Parallel GC, I guess.)
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10:00:17 <wob_jonas> ah, you're garbage-collecting? ok
10:00:22 <int-e> Go is. But honestly I don't expect to see any improvement.
10:00:35 <wob_jonas> oh right, it doesn't know that it doesn't need to gc
10:00:42 <wob_jonas> or something
10:01:28 <int-e> (In the 80 minutes that this program is running, it has found 11111111111111111051649690525458095629710973775872 36 times and 11111111111111111215673466122483207680856045806875 4 times. The Haskell version has found 11111111111111111215673466122483207680856045806875 about 80 times.)
10:01:53 <int-e> (Using way more CPU time, I think I was up to 19 hours.)
10:02:26 <int-e> wob_jonas: It does need GC actually... plenty of fresh big nums are produced and most of them are discarded
10:03:56 <wob_jonas> ok
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10:05:54 <int-e> (finding the same result over and over indicates that the approach is hitting its limit. So /probably/ we either have an optimum or the optimum is hard to find (there are such hard-to-find smooth numbers, but explaining what they are would give away my approach))
10:08:29 <wob_jonas> int-e: my current approach searches such solutions that don't have many large prime factors, and it can actually exhaust those and finds every solution exactly once. but what "not too many large prime factors" means depends on how fast I'll make the program, so I can cover a larger space if I make the program faster
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10:11:51 <wob_jonas> I've been considering other ways to search, but I haven't considered any that finds the same solution multiple times, except from where I restart the program with different parameters
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10:13:47 <wob_jonas> I did consider searches that miss some unlucky solutions though
10:14:03 <wob_jonas> unlucky in ways other than having more than a few large prime factors
10:25:54 <int-e> Hmm let's give 10^200/9 a try. How bad could it be?
10:27:30 <wob_jonas> u
10:28:26 <int-e> (I just want to see whether this also finds the same solutions over and over again.)
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12:01:45 <esowiki> [[Letters++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65456 * Saka * (+2675) Created page with "'''NOTE: WORK IN PROGRESS PAGE. WILL IMPROVE AS TIME GOES ON... hopefully...'''<br> '''Letters++''' is an esolang created by [[User:Saka]], that is made of, as the name sugges..."
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12:10:47 <esowiki> [[Letters++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65457&oldid=65456 * Saka * (+69)
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12:20:27 <int-e> wob_jonas: http://paste.debian.net/1095448/ is where the program is after 2 hours, and it has not repeated itself (much) yet.
12:21:08 <int-e> (for 10^200/9)
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12:28:09 * int-e should probably stop bragging about this.
12:28:45 <wob_jonas> int-e: why does that paste have a row of ones?
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12:29:25 <int-e> wob_jonas: because that's how I compare to the target number
12:29:30 <int-e> put it in the middle :)
12:29:36 <wob_jonas> ah
12:30:02 <wob_jonas> I instead print their difference in exponential format
12:31:30 <wob_jonas> like "bestprod=11111111111111158344848599503479968356777700860000, diff=4.723E+34," and there's more after that line that tell about where it is in the search space
12:39:40 <esowiki> [[User:Dtuser1337]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65458 * Dtuser1337 * (+11) oof
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13:26:15 <wob_jonas> I should make the next version print the full factorization
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14:28:34 <wob_jonas> Forced Fruition is from the Lorwyn set? that makes so much sense actually. I thought it was an older card than that, but it really suits Lorwyn's mood
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14:43:00 <esowiki> [[Powder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65459&oldid=60758 * Areallycoolusername * (+97) /* Documentation */
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14:44:02 <esowiki> [[Powder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65460&oldid=65459 * Areallycoolusername * (+21) Typo
14:44:55 <esowiki> [[Powder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65461&oldid=65460 * Areallycoolusername * (-34) /* Documentation */
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14:54:44 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65462&oldid=65390 * Areallycoolusername * (+701) Re: A language defined by its implementation
14:55:26 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65463&oldid=65462 * Areallycoolusername * (+22) /* Re: Your Comment On My Github Pull Request */
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14:59:31 <ARCUN> Is Objective-C really worthwhile to learn? I've noticed that it's just C, with some salt
15:00:15 <ARCUN> Im not trying to go into IOS development, I just wanted to learn a new language
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15:11:30 <ARCUN> I've realized that almost all programs in c, if the headingovernment is replaced with "#import <Foundation/Foundation.h>", it will most likely result in the same function.
15:12:04 <ARCUN> What exactly was Apple thinking when they made a C copy?
15:12:40 <ARCUN> Heading*
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15:39:24 <Taneb> They were probably thinking "I don't really want to write Java or C++"
15:42:25 <myname> learn rust
15:42:44 <rain2> rust is a bad language
15:42:46 <rain2> dont use it
15:42:52 <myname> how so
15:44:44 <myname> rust prevents you from shooting yourself in the foot. i like that in a language.
15:46:01 <myname> also, it is an awesome low-level language to write in. we wrote a small OS in university and had a way more comfortable environment than the C people
15:49:10 <myname> like, you just redefine panic! and get runtime errors shown with filename and line number. that would be impossible to do in C if you use any third party library
15:49:21 <myname> including stdlib
15:51:09 <myname> also, writing ones own free is so nice since you don't need anybookkeeping for how many memory you need to free at a given location
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16:10:14 <zzo38> shachaf: The number of digits after "un" in Unusenet won't be larger than the number of atoms in the universe, because, the number indicated after the letters "un" is either zero or the number of components in a domain name.
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17:19:13 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65464&oldid=63754 * Gamer * (-39)
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17:31:19 <esowiki> [[Compressed Malbolge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65465 * Palaiologos * (+600) Created page with "Compressed Malbolge, made by [[User:Palaiologos]] in 2019, is a compressed variant for [[malbolge unshackled]], designed to fit my large blobs inside [https://codegolf.stackex..."
17:31:47 <esowiki> [[Compressed Malbolge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65466&oldid=65465 * Palaiologos * (+0)
17:41:01 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65467&oldid=65454 * Palaiologos * (+26) Add Compressed Malbolge
17:44:30 <int-e> . o O ( 648000 parsec = 0 km? )
17:50:37 <int-e> What did they mean by "Apple made a C copy"? Swift? Because if this is about Objective C, Apple didn't create the language... they endorsed it (probably the NeXT folks had some influence).
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17:56:26 <j4cbo> also a lot of objc’s weirdness is because it was designed as a *strict* superset of C
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19:18:40 <b_jonas> `? moo
19:18:41 <HackEso> Moo is the sound made by a cow as it freezes.
19:39:42 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65468&oldid=65463 * Areallycoolusername * (+0) /* Re: Your Comment On My Github Pull Request */
19:45:17 <esowiki> [[User talk:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65469&oldid=65439 * Areallycoolusername * (+198)
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20:12:03 <andrewtheircer> hi
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20:13:14 <andrewtheircer> hi to you
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20:19:00 <andrewtheircer> hello lord
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20:47:52 <b_jonas> `? zzo38mtg
20:47:53 <HackEso> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
20:47:59 <b_jonas> `? zzo38card
20:48:00 <HackEso> zzo38cards are at http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
20:48:04 <b_jonas> those seem redundant
20:48:12 <b_jonas> `forget zzo38mtg
20:48:15 <HackEso> Forget what?
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20:51:59 <b_jonas> `forget horn
20:52:00 <HackEso> Forget what?
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21:33:12 <esowiki> [[User talk:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65470&oldid=65469 * JonoCode9374 * (+212)
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←2019-08-11 2019-08-12 2019-08-13→ ↑2019 ↑all