←2019-08-21 2019-08-22 2019-08-23→ ↑2019 ↑all
01:05:33 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65598&oldid=65523 * Areallycoolusername * (+456) /* Ruby */
01:06:04 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65599&oldid=65598 * Areallycoolusername * (+6) /* Ruby */
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01:50:00 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65600&oldid=65533 * A * (+3176)
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02:35:45 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65601&oldid=65600 * Areallycoolusername * (+134) Questioning what looks like a bot shell
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03:17:51 * oerjan looks at five days of logs and skips and jumps
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08:09:31 <Taneb> Five days of skips and jumps is a lot of skips and jumps
08:19:13 <oerjan> well i mostly only skipped between mentions of my name so - not many.
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08:21:32 <esowiki> [[User talk:Areallycoolusername]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65602&oldid=65436 * A * (+3413) Reply
08:22:47 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65603&oldid=65601 * A * (+3386)
08:29:01 <Taneb> oerjan: how have you been?
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08:29:51 <wob_jonas> oerjan: there's an olist in it, but you probably don't skip over that
08:30:09 <oerjan> indeed, since it contains my nick
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08:37:03 <cpressey> Taneb: do linear kinds ensure that a type is only used once?
08:39:43 <Taneb> cpressey: that's what kmc suggested
08:41:09 <cpressey> It's hard to read every line of the log
08:49:05 <oerjan> ^
08:49:19 <shachaf> `welcome oerjan
08:49:20 <HackEso> oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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11:28:51 <wob_jonas> apparently the Hungarian word "meztelen" has four different variations: "meztelen, mezítelen, mezítlen, mezitelen".
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14:42:51 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65604&oldid=65464 * PaniniTheDeveloper * (+25)
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14:47:07 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65605&oldid=65604 * PaniniTheDeveloper * (-12)
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19:45:48 <b_jonas> hey all
20:06:17 <shachaf> b_hellonas
20:06:21 <shachaf> `? membership
20:06:22 <HackEso> membership? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:06:24 <shachaf> `? member
20:06:25 <HackEso> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
20:06:49 <int-e> `grwp cult
20:06:50 <HackEso> homestuck:Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif \ iditarod:The Iditarod is a race so incredibly difficult that it has a prize for coming in last place. \ pineapple:Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable. \ promise problem:A promise problem is one that happens because you pr
20:07:39 <int-e> `2 grwp cult
20:07:40 <HackEso> 2/3:ou promise too much. Their reduction to NP is p. difficult. \ subtle:The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear. \ tea:Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean. \ tg:TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to h
20:08:09 <shachaf> `n
20:08:11 <HackEso> 3/3:alt before losing or not.
20:08:38 <int-e> it's interesting that it miscounted by 5 initially?
20:09:11 <shachaf> You mean that `2 miscounted by 5?
20:10:05 <int-e> Yes. But maybe there's been a hostmask change between now and when `2/`1/`n were last tweaked.
20:13:15 <shachaf> Maybe there's some way it can be made more resilient.
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20:14:31 <int-e> best not to touch it
20:14:39 <int-e> at least it didn't lose any characters :)
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20:33:33 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65606&oldid=65603 * Ais523 * (-6444) rm likely copyright infringement
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20:49:31 <shachaf> kmc: did you see that bolete
20:50:59 <b_jonas> lol, some of those wisdoms are actually good, not like the ones I write
20:51:23 <kmc> no
20:53:11 <shachaf> kmc: http://bolete.org/
20:53:27 <kmc> <3
21:04:12 <int-e> huh
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21:40:01 <ARCUN> So Linux has ELF, Windows has PE, and Mac has Mach-o. Would it be possible to create a new executable file format for a new OS?
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21:51:19 <shachaf> Is that A again?
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21:59:40 <ARCUN> shachaf: No, this is Areallycoolusername. I just put an acronym since my username is too long.
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22:00:58 <esowiki> [[BFC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65607&oldid=58053 * ZM * (+4) Adding backlink to main BF article for convenience
22:01:21 <shachaf> Why do you both do the thing where you join, write one message into the chat, and leave?
22:01:41 <shachaf> Gratuitous joins/quits are annoying.
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22:41:45 <ARCUN> shachaf: This is because there is no telling whether you'll get a response a few minutes after your message has been sent. So instead of waiting for a potentially long amount of time, I quit, and check back on the logs to see if anyone has responded.
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22:45:20 <shachaf> I recommend just staying in the channel.
22:45:55 <shachaf> You don't need to stare at the channel while you wait for an answer, if your computer supports multi-tasking.
22:46:57 <shachaf> Anyway, it would certainly be possible to make your own format. There are plenty of them out there already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_executable_file_formats
22:48:26 <shachaf> You could just use ELF, which is supported by many systems and fairly simple.
22:49:22 <ARCUN> I was thinking of a format that is automatically made whenever you make a program, so you dont have to run a command to get an executable.
22:49:50 <shachaf> What does that have to do with which format you use?
22:54:43 <ARCUN> No matter the format, you usually have to run a command that turns a program into a runnable executable.
22:55:09 <ARCUN> What if you make a format that is automatically made after making a program
22:55:32 <ARCUN> It's easier on the OS I'm trying to make
22:57:21 <shachaf> "automatically made" isn't a statement about the format but about the process of making.
23:02:10 <moony> I know that the halting problem is uncomputable, but is it possible to prove that a function is a Finite State Machine?
23:04:12 <shachaf> Sure? It's also possible to prove that a program halts.
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23:05:01 <moony> ?
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23:06:32 <moony> shachaf: Elaborate?
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23:10:46 <moony> ):
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23:22:22 <shachaf> It's possible to prove that a specific program halts, for example by running it until it halts.
23:22:43 <shachaf> Did you mean a decision procedure?
23:24:36 <moony> Yes, a decision procedure.
23:26:59 <moony> to test if a function is a FSM
23:27:06 <moony> or a lower class automata is that's not possible
23:29:03 <shachaf> I think you'll need to specify what you mean a bit more, but it sounds like the answer is no.
23:30:19 <moony> Is a given function of a program a Finite State machine. Yea, don't think it is.
23:30:30 <moony> wait
23:30:32 <moony> oh
23:30:34 * moony derp, didn't elaborate
23:31:49 <kmc> moony: you can define a subset of programs that are "obviously" FSMs and can be checked to be such
23:31:56 <kmc> for example by requiring all data structures have an explicit bound
23:32:51 <moony> Mmm. Alright
23:32:53 <kmc> but if your language allows unbounded state, then determining whether a given program actually has a bound on how much state it uses should be undecidable
23:33:11 <kmc> that should be an easy reduction from the halting problem
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23:34:18 <moony> kmc: Thanks. Perfect reliability wasn't a requirement anyways, so just using tests to spot various "obvious" FSMs should be enough
23:34:26 <shachaf> In particular every program that halts is a finite state machine, and halting is decidable for finite state machines.
23:34:52 <kmc> mhm
23:35:40 <moony> Could also augment in checks to catch common unhalting issues
23:35:51 <moony> (as a flag, as there'd be overhead from these kinds of checks)
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23:43:25 <ais523> wow, there's one huge advantage to programming an SMT solver: when you want to test that your function does what you expect, you can simply write the properties it's supposed to have and the SMT solver proves that your function has those properties
23:44:13 <ais523> I think all programming languages should work like this
23:44:38 <kmc> yes
23:44:49 <kmc> that's also why quickcheck is so great, although of course it's not exhaustive
23:45:08 <kmc> it still gets you a huge test suite for very little effort
23:45:28 <shachaf> ais523: You can even ask it to synthesize a function for you!
23:45:51 <shachaf> Well, not quite trivially.
23:46:18 <kmc> i had a dream of a language where you can put arbitrary predicates on types (refinement types) and it will prove what it can at compile time, and quickcheck the rest, and then optionally check at runtime as well
23:46:19 <ais523> shachaf: how? even a nontrivial method, I'd be very interested in
23:47:02 <shachaf> I actually don't have the answer to your question, but my friend keeps telling me about the program synthesis things he was doing with SMT solvers.
23:49:29 <fizzie> Here's the overall structure of this website: <!DOCTYPE> <html> <head>...</head> <body> <form> <input type="hidden"> <!DOCTYPE> <html> <head>...</head> <body> ... </body> </html> </form> </body> </html>
23:49:43 <shachaf> I think this was the project: http://pl.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/chlorophyll/
23:52:16 <ais523> fizzie: I'm wondering where that <input> tag ends
23:52:34 <ais523> this structure is so illogical that I don't think the normal inference rules would help
23:53:32 <ais523> shachaf: hmm, so pretty close to what I'm doing, just optimised for potato rather than x86
23:54:01 <kmc> that is madness
23:54:08 <kmc> you can parse it and then dump the DOM
23:54:41 <ais523> oh, btw, after answering a couple of Malbolge questions on StackOverflow I had ideas for a worse version of it
23:55:10 <ais523> but am not certain a) if it's TC, or b) letting people see the spec is remotely a good idea
23:55:26 <shachaf> somebody set up us the DOM
23:55:41 <ais523> (the possibilities if it becomes public are that it's ignored, in which case it's neutral as to whether it was released or not, or that people try to program in it, which may be a bad thing)
23:57:38 <shachaf> ais523: Isn't <input type="hidden"> a self-closing tag in HTML?
23:59:56 <ais523> oh, could be
←2019-08-21 2019-08-22 2019-08-23→ ↑2019 ↑all