< 1569801651 923391 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rtvryxqavhiuicto QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569801676 898944 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-efgpcogqbeedyclu JOIN :#esoteric < 1569801969 258260 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-efgpcogqbeedyclu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569801981 825153 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xskgumjhbldaedzo JOIN :#esoteric < 1569802526 546523 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fraglets are weird. < 1569803108 585749 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569803276 990008 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569803495 556823 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xskgumjhbldaedzo QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569803550 566230 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rgtgwckodsotoygv JOIN :#esoteric < 1569804821 418565 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :separating the description of computations and the actual computations is what separates declarative from imperative. < 1569804969 94278 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569805172 549713 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569805350 805583 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rgtgwckodsotoygv QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569805386 320194 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-eumjaaphguznvfck JOIN :#esoteric < 1569805522 822863 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-eumjaaphguznvfck QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569805687 534496 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rjymbodnhlyulxpx JOIN :#esoteric < 1569805792 140814 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1569806736 984888 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569806931 97720 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1569806944 704968 :MDude!AdiIRC@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569807205 639314 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rjymbodnhlyulxpx QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569807220 700075 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rrrpttgyfkywnfgn JOIN :#esoteric < 1569810262 759208 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rrrpttgyfkywnfgn QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569810277 308743 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-oagxwlubyohbnbyw JOIN :#esoteric < 1569810834 882097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now a Hamster archive is available of the story I linked to earlier, in case you want to download the entire story. (I also wrote a shell script to export it automatically.) < 1569810866 567795 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-oagxwlubyohbnbyw QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569810877 714609 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ethbwvjfhvjggtyw JOIN :#esoteric < 1569811178 672902 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ethbwvjfhvjggtyw QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569811193 126845 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-sgfoedjtnrivjtmt JOIN :#esoteric < 1569811423 528805 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1569812340 255090 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-sgfoedjtnrivjtmt QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569812375 59564 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xtmbcwfxvhocwaur JOIN :#esoteric < 1569812504 605109 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xtmbcwfxvhocwaur QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569812674 878905 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pgsnejywcoswxfgq JOIN :#esoteric < 1569812798 296020 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pgsnejywcoswxfgq QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569812975 605128 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xxnbwofvkqxadwao JOIN :#esoteric < 1569813844 895065 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569814027 78182 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569815100 618540 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xxnbwofvkqxadwao QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569815112 565223 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-saqxuyyzbnkyabse JOIN :#esoteric < 1569815546 891551 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569815608 7404 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1569817223 523658 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569817384 694994 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-saqxuyyzbnkyabse QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569817688 729668 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vpnfkthaxypdnnhs JOIN :#esoteric < 1569818827 92580 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vpnfkthaxypdnnhs QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569819077 215366 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569819082 299181 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jbpajqnuaprfjhxj JOIN :#esoteric < 1569819246 583402 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569819572 436401 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jbpajqnuaprfjhxj QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569819586 935419 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ivjlufrtyminjyef JOIN :#esoteric < 1569820003 871399 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1569821942 327799 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ivjlufrtyminjyef QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1569821966 165649 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-aifnyxfcxmjgslys JOIN :#esoteric < 1569822479 460035 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-aifnyxfcxmjgslys QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569822783 241607 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-uistcdmzjjvvfhvd JOIN :#esoteric < 1569823042 309073 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-uistcdmzjjvvfhvd QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569823084 51575 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rffuemmcsfmqrvgv JOIN :#esoteric < 1569825755 806884 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0089a6bed31c6f09f1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1569826046 59276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66403&oldid=66400 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+5) 10Fixed alphabetical order and made language header a link (wrapped it in [[]]) > 1569826201 180444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66404&oldid=66403 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+57) 10Added new Keg variant (8 bytes SBCS) < 1569828050 915288 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569828325 327234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1569832249 537386 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a001d4cdfd7c2909b6f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569832433 980721 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0089a6bed31c6f09f1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1569832447 104557 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a001d4cdfd7c2909b6f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569832643 386045 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-152-224.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1569832670 605924 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-152-224.play-internet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1569834025 434669 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569836516 552567 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004d2cd913299b8aa1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569838810 504120 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004d2cd913299b8aa1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569838870 122191 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569839042 930563 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569842488 115279 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569842590 536901 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1569846911 120562 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569847077 97552 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569847717 362462 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-152-224.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1569848089 595697 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzpntjfxdzvaatzd JOIN :#esoteric < 1569848216 61397 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00806013698314c376.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569848508 906782 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569848620 563135 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Client Quit < 1569848639 655545 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569850720 584951 :PaniniTheDevelop!b03b3023@176.59.48.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569850760 666728 :PaniniTheDevelop!b03b3023@176.59.48.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally i connected to irc < 1569850812 31835 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations < 1569851151 216849 :PaniniTheDevelop!b03b3023@176.59.48.35 NICK :PaniniTheDev > 1569851832 564446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EmojiCoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66405&oldid=45403 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+24) 10 > 1569851880 865558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EmojiCoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66406&oldid=66405 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+17) 10 < 1569854356 78555 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1569854487 30398 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :computational class question: how would a language be classified if it's between two classes? eg: posix regex, it can match the context sensitive wordword but can't match the context-free a^nb^n < 1569854742 152282 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00806013698314c376.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569854776 405371 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569854952 168619 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569855216 330962 :PaniniTheDev!b03b3023@176.59.48.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1569855224 352541 :PaniniTheDev!b03b3023@176.59.48.35 PART :#esoteric < 1569855901 233559 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1569857373 219448 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kritixilithos: It's entirely possible that, between any two classes, there is another class, but it might not have an established name; in which case, describing it in words (like you just did) might be the best you can do (and is totally fine to do in any case) < 1569857782 102658 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569857885 899768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any class between the two classes {} and {a} < 1569857918 800321 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what about semi-{a} < 1569857935 44962 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that twh < 1569857979 267326 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can recognize a but sometimes can't recognize ¬a < 1569858151 70797 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1569858371 862802 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1569858386 844612 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah, thanks < 1569858436 106653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569858621 375207 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1569859068 16327 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1569860534 749165 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: :q < 1569861325 956635 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d also say that the first class shouldn’t be called “context-sensitive” because it’s not the entire context-sensitive languages class; as it contains (the entire) context-free languages class. So that should be a class I’d even not call an inbetween one, it’s more interesting class, but kritixilithos is left < 1569862046 158057 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzpntjfxdzvaatzd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1569862144 545109 :kpspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569862148 883482 :kpspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569862233 277547 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised how many "famous people in esolang community" are there < 1569862254 772364 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569862313 553915 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lotta people have a lotta langs. < 1569862385 586503 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569862428 306061 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1569862577 724028 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tfw the only measurable thing I made in esolangs is json formatter webservice in brainfuck < 1569862579 892928 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1569862586 32594 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C compiler targeting brainfuck, and thats pretty much it < 1569862590 693078 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few assemblers < 1569862619 575873 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep at it. < 1569862624 305770 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd really like to discover some nice and creative esolangs, but the spam at wiki, my gosh < 1569862640 233155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a strange little lang that was implemented by some other people, and ended up in a published paper or two < 1569862652 90674 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't particularly designed to be eso- < 1569862659 91367 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell me the name tho? < 1569862671 635513 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more of a very simple proof of concept of something < 1569862673 763658 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not original < 1569862675 449582 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Qoppa < 1569862703 248654 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done a bunch of other esoprogramming, e.g. http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2014/02/x86-is-turing-complete-with-no-registers.html < 1569862710 159740 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds really close to my langauge's equivalent of sh*t < 1569862715 427381 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offense tho < 1569862719 917255 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the name) < 1569862753 445963 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1569862764 236476 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine by me < 1569862788 489080 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen ShaFuck on the wiki < 1569862792 155198 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it's biased < 1569862799 96232 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's so simple to write programs in it < 1569862846 333596 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :define biased. < 1569862853 907910 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a loophole < 1569862860 28311 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be exploited to eaisly write programs in it < 1569862867 294874 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that author didn't intend to < 1569862885 337978 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just to clarify, the author wanted the language to be insane to program) < 1569863022 512310 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought about something quite interesting < 1569863047 88006 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashes (///) without regexps, but with some form of brainfuck in place instead of them < 1569863067 460185 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would process the string and pass it forward < 1569863084 943639 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input would have to be pre-supplied by prepending the program with it < 1569863096 290698 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the output would be performed just at the end < 1569863297 723942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's just that one ShaFuck "vulnerability", which is easy to fix and arguably not even part of the spec. < 1569863669 153596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the vulnerability? < 1569864085 911468 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569864252 134590 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569864388 990739 :sleepnap!~thomas@d14-69-163-248.try.wideopenwest.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1569864468 887528 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just realised how many "famous people in esolang community" are there => IIRC alas FALSE author isn’t here. FALSE doesn’t seem that outstanding or/and famous but it just doesn’t go from my mind when I think about famous esolanging stuff < 1569864508 792173 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have mr. Pressey < 1569864515 694239 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr. Tromp < 1569864529 947051 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made BLC, one of my most loved esolangs < 1569865493 706822 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I’ve seen BLC, minimalistic < 1569865998 875627 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1569866013 526045 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldnt call it minimalistic < 1569866018 719679 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1569866026 41821 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really depends on how we define minimalistic < 1569866037 863076 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs in BLC are really small and that's the main reason I like this language < 1569866046 473236 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the smallest program carries a lot of entropy with itself < 1569866047 931951 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569866076 960771 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation is complicated, though. < 1569866100 957659 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1569866102 339715 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I can't deny that < 1569866664 317386 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I can't find a good use for my "amazing" idea < 1569866676 810100 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1569866712 107281 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the idea I presented someone earlier < 1569866721 100364 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the substitution based language < 1569866876 388472 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, mind recapping. < 1569867246 993052 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d9e3c14bedcad5d4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569867278 489559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1569867296 902166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello all < 1569867322 629456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome PaniniTheDev < 1569867323 654863 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PaniniTheDev: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1569867334 147405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you know that already, you came from the Wiki. < 1569867362 671689 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1569867469 494104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The spec disallows comments, but the implementation doesn't actually check for comments in code that's not executed, so essentially you just have to brute-force out some string that hashes to "+>[...junk...]<" and use that block to represent a +. Plus a few extra details (like making > into >>, and making sure there are no []s in that junk). < 1569867502 841875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Comments" being any byte that's not +-<>.,[] < 1569867613 406655 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos, kmc: IMO creating a few good esolang-related things is a much better way to contribute than creating a hundred worthless pages on the wiki about supposed languages like our village in Norway does < 1569867657 751689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably only two people who have created more than one really interesting esolangs that are different from each other < 1569867703 651536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unless you can come up with something really revolutionary, creating new esolangs isn't the best thing to do. I value it much higher if you use existing esolangs, or just use non-eso programming languages in interesting ways < 1569867710 37508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in obfuscated programming < 1569867727 448755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, that sounds like a bug in the implementation. < 1569867734 797162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is why you called in a vulnerability. < 1569867879 52350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's fine either way < 1569867893 867971 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to hang out here because it's a set of cool people discussing interesting things < 1569867902 662078 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel a great urge to contribute to the esolangs per se < 1569867914 433821 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a few ideas tho < 1569867923 563841 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-59-9-101.hlrn.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569867973 715522 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly esolangs to me are just new ideas in programming language theory that haven't been taken to their potential yet. < 1569867979 712152 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are < 1569867999 690416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: "slashes (///) without regexps" um, but slashes already doesn't have regexps. it only searches for fixed strings, as in grep -F > 1569868206 962234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tom Murphy VII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66407&oldid=56755 5* 03B jonas 5* (+78) 10link UM-32 < 1569868233 900067 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is a concatencative language for signal processing < 1569868239 421307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's probably been done < 1569868266 707843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the great thing is that esolangs mean different things to different people, which is why there are so many different ones with different interesting properties < 1569868370 423731 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: re x86 without using registers => interesting, I don't remember having seen that one. the one with MOV only, and the one with no instructions, those I do remember, as well as tom7's ABC < 1569868427 481574 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :brachylog is interesting if a little obtuse. < 1569868469 697015 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the most "minimal" logic language is. prolog is hard to write on a single line and its implementation is complex. < 1569868614 894334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I think for a golf language, it may make sense to have prolog-like backtracking, but not general prolog-like unification. I'm not saying this would be easy to implement, just that it may help golfing. < 1569868648 833821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as for your specific question, I don't know what counts as enough to qualify something a "logic language" < 1569868654 168972 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing is an interesting orthogonal goal. my further goal is writing prolog as I write sentences. < 1569868663 130241 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d9e3c14bedcad5d4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569868680 26648 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this thing relates to that thing, that thing relates to this other thing, what is this other thing." < 1569868740 652699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: interesting, why did you not make that implement brainfuck with mod 256 wraparound like it's the most common? < 1569868862 111282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Shakespeare predates Chef? < 1569868909 819515 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog without variables.. hm. < 1569869034 349823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: no no, I imagine it would have mutable variables, and you'd have both non-backtracking and backtracking versions. what I mean is that it wouldn't have the recursive structural unification, nor even just unassigned variables and function arguments that can be either input and output using them and A=B statements that can assign in either direction < 1569869049 638686 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't tie that statement to your's, was just musing. < 1569869062 804634 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i think that would have been harder? < 1569869065 349484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think it would be like prolog at all < 1569869098 535044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's hard to implement, but a golfing language doesn't have to be easy to implement, it has to give you all the tricky tools instead < 1569869108 13925 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be able to pose questions to my machine and have it answer them. I want to be able to describe and query relations between the things I declare. < 1569869114 423703 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was doing a minimum proof of concept about x86 being turing complete with no registers < 1569869120 864922 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sans variables.. which is difficult. < 1569869133 778601 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care if it's convenient for writing code < 1569869172 457756 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, but you apparently have extra code in the implementation so that when a cell becomes decreased to -1 then it changes it to 0, and when it becomes 256 it changes it to 255 < 1569869182 946011 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constraint_Handling_Rules < 1569869187 825395 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like you'd just have to change the constants there so it changes -1 to 255 and 256 to 0 insteaed < 1569869188 770486 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1569869203 866926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be like a trivial change, it wouldn't make the implementation any more difficult < 1569869207 921091 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hm i think you're right < 1569869210 167060 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a long time < 1569869216 214726 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not sure why i did it that way < 1569869224 48479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1569869227 195368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're right < 1569869251 60985 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm not sure how this post got hundreds of comments about curing herpes with herbs < 1569869252 181832 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that at every < and > statement, you have to do a self-modifying code that modifies both the head address in both increase and decrease statement < 1569869271 323124 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh also i can't have conditionals < 1569869276 405727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you made it wrap around, you'd need five such modifications instead of three, so it's complicated < 1569869279 554071 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's still probably a way < 1569869288 288855 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make a subroutine that does it in some bitwise way for example < 1569869288 913185 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeha < 1569869294 590416 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just did it this way to be parsimonious < 1569869297 245354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you even say "We could implement the more typical wrap-around behavior with somewhat more code." < 1569869303 547256 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1569869305 346497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend has been trying to talk me into learning to do fancy gpu programming < 1569869309 741026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I didn't realize that that's how the head pointer was implemented < 1569869313 610653 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's fun < 1569869316 433424 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like esoteric programming < 1569869322 41910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :massively parallel, quasi-functional < 1569869369 799233 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: glad you found it interesting < 1569869390 661700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the friend isn't your partner who wants you to earn more money, right? < 1569869425 806425 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people were amused by my calling brainfuck "pretty familiar as an imperative, structured-control language" < 1569869433 525414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does Richardson's theorem actually let you produce a specific real expression (like sqrt(sin(5)) or whatever) where it's undecidable whether it's equal to 0? < 1569869449 1527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "[not] super weird" < 1569869461 29976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or is it only a function, like "\x -> sqrt(sin(x))", where it' undecidable whether it's 0 everywhere? < 1569869488 683365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, it has a simple text substitution compiler to C. < 1569869502 212067 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i wrote most of the code on a flight from SFO to ICN < 1569869507 558716 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah < 1569869509 204790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weird part isn't the language primitives but what you have to do get anything done with them. < 1569869570 491930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint sqrt(sin(5)) # of course that doesn't prove anything, because the sin function rounds to floating-point < 1569869570 945992 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't take sqrt of -0.958924 at -e line 1. < 1569869590 466616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1569869604 130689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the other window I wrote sqrt(sin(3)) but I changed it to 5 because it seemed more appealing. < 1569869605 835900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -euse Math::Complex; print sqrt(sin(5)) < 1569869606 336489 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.979246789457662i < 1569869607 136630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke's on me. < 1569869625 775192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: nah, taking a complex square root is completely fine in this context < 1569869650 852044 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pretty pleased to figure out how to do this < 1569869657 834292 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be worse if you tried to divide by zero, but just taking square root or log of a negative number is ok < 1569869660 411089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not completely fine for at least the following reason: It makes me say "Oh no." < 1569869720 699132 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Code that self-modifies by calling read() is clearly the future of computing." < 1569869755 315376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have a question < 1569869769 811193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :about self-modifying code < 1569869776 314879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :higan mchelloface < 1569869794 431218 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1569869817 229276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you look at the actual code it has a lot more self modifying code < 1569869820 572448 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to handle , < 1569869823 192540 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :, was a pain < 1569869853 42222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally on x86 with SMP, if you modify code on one cpu then execute it on another cpu, and want to make sure that the modified code is used, then you have to do a really elaborate synchronization dance to make sure that all the caches are flushed properly < 1569869898 544436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't happen when modifying code and then executing it on the same cpu because x86 wants to be backwards compatible with 386, which allowed such self-modifying code as long as you just do any jump/branch between them < 1569869995 966535 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question is, if you write ordinary self-modifying code in a linux-x86_64 program, and the kernel just happens to migrate the user-space thread to another cpu between your modifying code and your running it, does the kernel guarantee to do all the required synchronization dance so that your self-modifying code executes correctly? < 1569870012 166115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if not, then I really don't see how you could ever write self-modifying code on linux-x86_64 < 1569870019 317454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^ perhaps you can answer < 1569870359 665402 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? is it really undecidable in the computational sense whether a context-free grammar describes the empty language? < 1569870444 421104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, apparently it isn't < 1569870677 108881 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1569870831 87183 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : it really depends on how we define minimalistic => agree; I meant from the syntactic side < 1569870891 595723 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hatebin.com/qsqfryjtfv < 1569870895 871301 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone might have a use for this. < 1569870910 319245 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language based on tuple rewriting. here's a demo of a text adventure in it. < 1569871546 914428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, are there really only six M:tG cards that represent a leonin skyknight directly? that seems odd < 1569871578 194170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly they do appear in the flavor of some noncreature cards too < 1569871636 306924 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leonin Scimitar is a weapon used by skyhunters < 1569871892 143172 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the tuple store is a multiset, it's possible to construct a counter machine (and I believe it's equivalent to FRACTRAN at that point). there's no other way to build a tape as far as I see, though, because you can't add tuples with generated identifiers. < 1569871933 266290 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's easy to add the ability to: any variables on the RHS not present on the LHS get bound to a unique identifier. < 1569872408 197865 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: how does it operate, does it delete matched tuples or leaves them in the store? < 1569872465 83912 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1569872481 165765 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn’t read thoroughly < 1569872596 53656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't have an answer for that. Presumably serious users of self-modifying code must have considered this though. < 1569872706 450531 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it deletes them. < 1569872741 981051 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051ac81ce6e88bc23.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569872899 547903 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569872992 545532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... serious users of self-modifying code? those exist? < 1569873001 570397 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569873002 963583 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! I came up with a controversial question < 1569873020 660115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean like just-in-time compilers? < 1569873024 840106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I get it < 1569873026 896592 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569873028 433977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must meen qemu < 1569873035 353665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu's just in time compiler mode < 1569873038 570994 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I should look at < 1569873042 196664 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I’m to pick one of Idris or Agda, is there a clear winner or should I abandon the choice instead < 1569873053 191853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1569873058 872451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that exist on x86_64 as the host? < 1569873227 547970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569873521 421629 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051ac81ce6e88bc23.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1569875216 578051 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569875689 590711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 375 < 1569875689 996939 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :375.00°F = 190.56°C < 1569876220 122667 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569876239 416916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :375.00°F = 190.56°C => hot in that place < 1569876510 734331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's a recipe about baking fish < 1569876529 453418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still hotter than I expect, I don't bake anything over 180 deg C, but not impossibly hot < 1569876600 299697 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yum < 1569876743 956069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1569876744 454529 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nto egg salt. \ Add the shapes of flour with the corner and sugar in a large \ pan. Serve with peanut oil and almonds. Pour the cake on a bowl, stirring \ occasionally and remove from heat; cook over moderate heat, stirring constantly, \ until the meat is tender. Add the soup over the fish and \ stirring constantly; simmer together the water and mix well. Stir in the pineapple; \ water until lightly blended over and remove from pan. Add \ strands of < 1569876800 167132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you know any recipes? Should we train you with a cookbook? < 1569876800 427242 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think windos api bindings are somewhat rare female esolang programmers?' and someone replied with subject ' my wife woke up...'. < 1569876958 182342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the recipes in `recipe are somewhat similar to the sort of text that fungot outputs, in that they don't have any long term memory to ensure that objects created in one part of the recipe are reused in another, even though that is something that it would be easy to teach a computer program to pay attention to < 1569876958 544700 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i suspect firefox and konversation will randomly stop working at some startup, unrelated to research or scheme. common lisp is type ( list-all-packages) *modules* and *features*, something similar? < 1569876970 324662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, like that < 1569876991 455419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to contrast this to Roborosewater, which usually does a good job of keeping the whole card coherent < 1569876996 27596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? roborosewater < 1569876996 865212 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater < 1569878031 291033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569878093 156022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Does Richardson's theorem actually let you produce a specific real expression (like sqrt(sin(5)) or whatever) where it's undecidable whether it's equal to 0? ← if you could prove the result was undecidably equal to 0, then you could prove the result equalled 0 (if it didn't equal 0 then you'd be able to decide it by comparing to a number in between), which is a contradiction; so there are no computable real equations /known/ to be < 1569878094 777441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecidable < 1569878130 235123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if the theorem allowed you to compile a particular undecidable problem into an equivalent undecidable computational real, though, but I don't know < 1569878171 239766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was how you were proposing to use the theorem the other day, though I don't remember exactly. < 1569878196 209117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if I’m to pick one of Idris or Agda, is there a clear winner or should I abandon the choice instead ← Agda is something of an outlier among machine-checkable-proof languages, it's a lot more explicit than the competition; I personally see this as an advantage but this is a matter of taste (and probably means that Agda is the slowest among all commonly used proof languages to write) < 1569878241 885405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Agda might be good for people who like theoretically pure / mathematically interesting languages, whereas Idris is better if you want to build something practically < 1569878304 851069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi! see the logs < 1569878325 954490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is already seeing the logs. < 1569878345 779494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1569878353 35546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he generally does < 1569878418 749901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably seen https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-09-29.html#lk already < 1569878445 134288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of those rare cases where I can answer a technical question on #esoteric < 1569878458 467137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are probably only two people who have created more than one really interesting esolangs that are different from each other ← I can think of at least three, probably several more < 1569878477 481256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I saw that a while ago, just wasn't online to reply < 1569878488 66084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd found a solution to the problem by then anyway (and even posted it in-channel) < 1569878513 81149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which three? you are one of them, that's easy < 1569878529 487520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, how does "no utf8" have the same semantics as BEGIN? :-D < 1569878535 742404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: cpressey, obviously < 1569878547 218412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first name that came to mind for the third was Keymaker < 1569878569 398640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oklopol might also have done so < 1569878588 338831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look these up < 1569878598 691784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Martin Ender < 1569878608 59854 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't technically have exactly the same semantics, but the differences don't matter here < 1569878630 889985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also loads a module that always exists on modern perl in the core and doesn't do much and most of it are actually perl builtins < 1569878640 442735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones that are loaded when the interpreter is started < 1569878657 642754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what the utf8 "module" does < 1569878662 438546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use lots of other modules, especially if you put a do-block in the argument to ignore the result of the $^H thingy < 1569878666 560406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm confused as to why it makes the assignment to $^H happen at compile time < 1569878674 543134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the `no` statement, that is < 1569878681 431851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I figured it out < 1569878698 25978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to evaluate the argument to utf8 in order to work out what values to load the module with, that's clever < 1569878699 991647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the specific module is not relevant, but the use/no statement calls import/unimport at compile time, so it has to evaluate its argument, which is passed to that call, at compile time < 1569878749 276746 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the utf8 module's import has another function that I totally didn't think of < 1569878753 738088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be confusing < 1569878760 131528 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally obsolete so I forgot about it < 1569878773 672748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only thought of the public functions in it < 1569878817 582366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf8::import doesn't inspect its arguments, does it? < 1569878849 619648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, I just checked its source code < 1569878875 968596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it feels a bit wrong to me that you can check the source code of a pragma, you expect those to be hardcoded into the compiler rather than separate files) < 1569878907 754662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a UTF8 decoder but it's pretty naive. < 1569878915 205114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a fast one that uses a state machine. < 1569878931 552867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can check the source of things that are hardcoded into the compiler too, and for most pragmas, the bulk of the implementation is in there, the pragma only gives an interface to them < 1569878947 560489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bigint is an example for a pragma that isn't like that) < 1569878984 113838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perl is ... sort of weird in how a lot of what you expect to be builtin functionality in a sane language is off-loaded to modules < 1569879083 252435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigint is written in terms of overload::constant, which seems to do the real magic < 1569879100 712478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1569879161 88580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to in turn be implemented via assigning to %^H, which has a strong implication of compiler magic < 1569879192 296301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that seems unlikely because I think %^H is newer than overload::constant < 1569879215 187436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation could have been changed to make use of the new feature < 1569879227 3670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could, but that seems unlikely < 1569879235 585465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just remember incorrectly about $^H < 1569879237 426976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1569879239 695448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :about %^H < 1569879243 459766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :%^H is old < 1569879245 212674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1569879246 491780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1569879250 185085 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :$^H is old, I know that < 1569879255 369075 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1569879261 771945 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe %^H is old too, I just think it's newer for some reason < 1569879328 776275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1569879358 615967 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks < 1569879381 103563 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye all, I try to fix my sleepdule < 1569879397 276939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I know Agda much better than Idris (although don't know either particularly well) < 1569879467 441257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, are you sure that %^H is used as the magic interface how overload::constant asks the compiler how to interpret constants? isn't it just used to store some internal data for the pragma? < 1569879550 429424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: when you delete all the sanity checks, the entire implementation of overload::constant becomes «$^H{$_[0]} = $_[1]; $^H |= $constants{$_[0]}; shift, shift» < 1569879563 972752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's changinig both %^H and $^H, with nothing else happening < 1569879593 4905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1569879607 596347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I was probably wrong about %^H, it's likely old < 1569879630 565365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exists in 5.10, but I'm too lazy to check perl 5.6 now < 1569879701 540192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.14.65.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569879701 927684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that "shift, shift" seems really ominous for some reason, but I guess it's just an obfuscated way to return $_[1] < 1569879977 952182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the demon Bozmodiklax returns! I think that's his third appearance in smbc < 1569880015 843342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice when a gag-a-day comic has continuity < 1569880065 326240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of continuity < 1569880086 553747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was much more dangerous the last time, wanting to blot out the sun and shroud Earth in a night eternal < 1569880525 161511 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :move left, cursor at $x? $x previous $y?: cursor at $y. move left, cursor at $x?: $y next $x, cursor at $y. move right, cursor at $x? $x next $y?: cursor at $y. move left, cursor at $x?: $x next $y, cursor at $y. < 1569880543 30484 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :autogenerating an infinite tape. < 1569880579 697903 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sentential form is a little awkward. < 1569880604 239800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that text written in English or an esolang or a literal translation from one to the other? < 1569880634 649223 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an esolang. < 1569880663 943088 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :small syntactic variant on a language I posted about earlier, I'll re-post. < 1569880669 471778 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hatebin.com/qsqfryjtfv < 1569880773 947801 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a language based around tuple rewriting. the system state is stored as a multiset of tuples. patterns match against collections of tuples. < 1569880804 52685 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuples are just sequences of tokens delimited by spaces. < 1569880837 65482 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuples in a pattern are delimited by ',' or '?'. < 1569880881 551458 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're delimited by a ',', the constructed tuples are removed from the store. if they're delimited by a '?', they're not. < 1569880921 210796 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :any variables present on the RHS that aren't on the LHS get bound to an autogenerated ID. < 1569880949 591728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-142.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569882056 820157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1569882058 279345 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:1007) ... I was thinking maybe octave's fact() function is the factorial. octave:1> fact(20) Richad Stallman's pinky finger is really a USB memory stick. I don't think that's 20!. \ 625) if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? \ 991) in the time it takes light to travel from Hexham to Finland, I can generate almost 20 new topics for #esoteric \ 241) shit would make great currency, because everyone would have it and you could literally be filthy rich \ 501) elliott: ppl should vote clinton because obama is biracial every1 knows that dood, look at him he has been on something lately. < 1569883029 154059 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569883202 205862 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569883881 768998 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1569883952 551184 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ieearryvzmkxriqm JOIN :#esoteric < 1569884489 303046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1569887906 966696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric