< 1571360258 866724 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1571362169 80061 :uplime!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :Scrooge < 1571367937 816280 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1571367954 111173 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1571370593 599597 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1571370695 643558 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571370788 603095 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1571370788 714005 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1571370821 888722 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1571372012 585841 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571372057 732254 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Who created the 'or' language? < 1571372058 96114 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: at one point.) i'll try to look at these proofs you'll see that the number of buckets you use to read pdfs which preview/ acroread can't deal with the case that sys-readdir always have "." < 1571372099 851671 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:Fnordy morning to you < 1571372100 294735 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: i guess we should take haskell and give it a crack. i love it.) you should get some headphones chosen, sound maybe will be fnord. they're comfortable, and they refused to sense any opportunity for the opposite party since that might have something other fun esolang competition < 1571372136 121232 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. I can't get fungot to answer https://esolangs.org/wiki/Or related questions. < 1571372136 437473 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: fortunately the doctors at the university of copenhagen ( datalogisk institutut k?benhavns universitet) server box with a null < 1571372165 685226 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:I know the language. < 1571372165 722122 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: i could be wrong < 1571372188 870338 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:Shall I correct you? < 1571372205 698894 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571372226 588024 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571372257 445557 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Shall I correct you? < 1571372298 162197 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Shall I teach you? < 1571372326 973576 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571372450 874681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1571372511 594277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1571374262 531148 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571374571 522834 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1571376213 670470 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1571377831 808588 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1571380334 568327 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1571380905 440153 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1571382198 563330 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nehmxeqwsfakpgqq JOIN :#esoteric < 1571382359 834381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/ < 1571382361 20264 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/: b_jonas < 1571383744 645259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571384498 988368 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571384578 16088 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:90ea:4e2a:a102:6111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571384753 997706 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1571385450 909385 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571386344 88160 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1571386919 837893 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1571387010 431916 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1571387455 968092 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571388175 928867 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1571391769 247820 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nehmxeqwsfakpgqq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1571395968 29071 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1571396109 417882 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo! fungot, come back! < 1571396709 625769 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1571397020 227455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1571397027 713821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that all about. < 1571397116 62687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's about the internet at home. < 1571397164 294022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP has a "dashboard", but it's literally just a rounded rectangle on the account management page which says "Your Service status is: (orb)", where the orb is either red or green. Right now it's red. < 1571397233 26937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, there's also a hover tooltip box saying "we're sorry for the disruption" and "our engineers are currently investigating the cause and will work to restore connectivity as soon as possible". < 1571397256 679245 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it a dashboard that you can view from other internet connections, or only from yours? < 1571397263 717974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a bit like the "Inside Out" baby stage... just minus the button? < 1571397298 906281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen the tooltip say anything else, and it always says that within seconds of the connection going down, so I don't think it actually means anything in particular except that their monitoring has realized it's down. < 1571397327 124246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I can view it from anywhere by logging in to the same wobsite where you manage billing and that sort of stuff. < 1571397337 822049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's vitally important to reduce the number of calls for customer support. < 1571397491 940201 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in that case they probably also have access to the same dashboard, and by just you loading it, their server tells their engineers that your connection is down < 1571397554 442530 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the page you get immediately after logging in, so I don't think they can quite infer it's down just from me opening that page. < 1571397579 92704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although realistically that'd have about 98% accuracy in practice. < 1571397644 647073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My previous ISP had a read-only view into what looked like their actual issue tracker, which was nice. Although it was mostly just copies of BT's outages, because it was a DSL thing over BT's network. < 1571398582 224495 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not from just opening the page, obviously. but their server knows whether the page tells you it's up or down < 1571398731 556099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: you mean loading the page might act as a thumbs up on the corresponding ticket? < 1571398803 781510 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: loading the page tells them that someone cares about the internet being down on that connection. many of their users won't care, because they're sleeping or something. they might prioritize customers who look at the dashboard. < 1571398846 513175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's possible. < 1571398889 330426 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you have services running at home but aren't there and awake 24/7? too bad" > 1571398920 453371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66687&oldid=57199 5* 03B jonas 5* (+90) 10Rosetta Code < 1571398941 362988 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: obviously the priority only matters when they can't fix all their bugs :-) < 1571399108 957367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or want to sleep < 1571399503 566669 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric > 1571399952 703863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fibonacci sequence14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66688&oldid=18125 5* 03B jonas 5* (+164) 10Rosetta Code > 1571400013 267312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello, world!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66689&oldid=50490 5* 03B jonas 5* (+72) 10Rosetta Code > 1571400091 272804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66690&oldid=60899 5* 03B jonas 5* (+60) 10Rosetta Code < 1571400727 56138 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1571402318 846446 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571403497 766184 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571403687 181163 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While researching various things related to "equational logic" I have discovered that there is also "inequational logic". But not many people use this term. I suspect this is because inequational logic has a much better-known name, which is "term rewriting". < 1571403717 857566 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I am at a loss to see any essential difference between inequational logic and term rewriting. < 1571403910 513134 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh... this thing at work is terribly inconsistent. I'll have to fix it by redoing the whole thing, for which I have to figure out what the correct settings is < 1571404000 630420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm, in principle an inequational logic could go further (it could distinguish between covariant, contravariant, and ambiguous arguments of functions, for example) < 1571404022 209195 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm frustrated about thsi stuff < 1571404072 773053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just interepreting the term as I'd read it... I have never encountered it in the term rewriting context. Term rewriting people use things like (weakly) monotone algebras that orient rules, in termination proofs for example.) < 1571404382 592377 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Say you had a term rewriting system, and you wanted to describe its semantics as a set of axioms. You'd have ones like "If a rewites to b, then (ca) rewrites to (cb)", and "If a rewrites to b, and b rewrites to c, then a rewrites to c"... these are the same axioms that get listed when describing an inequational logic. < 1571404420 35809 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be small differences between the two concepts, sure. < 1571404648 44318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm just saying that given the term "inequaltional logic" you could do more. If a >= b then f(a) >= f(b) but g(b) >= g(a). < 1571404660 949897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so you could have monotonic and antimonotonic functions. < 1571404695 82825 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But it appears that this isn't done and then it's indeed just another name for term rewriting. < 1571405125 200582 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think I follow what you're saying -- you can start with an inequational logic, then add axioms that allow it to say more than you could say with a TRS, yet don't interfere with its purpose as an inequational logic? < 1571405207 695809 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd agree with that but I think I'm not thinking quite that far ahead yet :) < 1571405328 736788 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the downside would be that context matters... you couldn't replace any subterm by a smaller one anymore. < 1571405344 390497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'd be heading in a different direction from rewriting. < 1571405376 619943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. This happens when I encounter a new term... I first try to fill it with content myself. < 1571405398 432006 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wrong 80% of the time :P < 1571405501 540655 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571405531 659323 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571405640 271451 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm fairly excited about it from the meta-logical angle. You can use term rewriting to derive proofs of theorems under some theory, and in inequational logic you have a theory of term rewriting. < 1571405694 717797 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short it seems to confirm my feeling that a non-deterministic term rewriting language is sufficient for writing machine-checkable proofs in. < 1571405879 997608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that somewhat true for all models of computation :) < 1571405971 852748 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m disappointed in what was going on in https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/15730/can-digital-computers-understand-infinity < 1571405971 931337 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :many noted layman’s “understand” is an ambiguous non-notion but a few if at all noted the same about layman’s “infinity”. When talking about a specific “infinity” instance, things should get way clearer. There would be no denying some commenters are antropocentric, or should I say psyche-centric, at its worst < 1571405991 741791 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very disappointed. Say you agree with me please < 1571406011 656821 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better don’t read that thing at all, it’s not that good < 1571406201 509992 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can think, principally, and "understand" infinitely many numbers that are displayed on the screen." must be a pretty big screen < 1571406273 751425 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1571406297 169524 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1571406508 526611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's *not* always the same placeholder text. Now it says: "We're sorry to advise that we're experiencing a technical issue which has resulted in a temporary loss of broadband services to your building." I guess that's a good sign. < 1571406540 432090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 🙌😈🐰 < 1571406541 528763 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F64C PERSON RAISING BOTH HANDS IN CELEBRATION] [U+1F608 SMILING FACE WITH HORNS] [U+1F430 RABBIT FACE] < 1571406581 406908 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those prevalent chinese rooms in there too. I’d say popular understanding of a human mental capability is illusional and mostly based on accounts of introspection, not normal science, and what would chinese argumentists say if their chinese room would argue that it has introspection and it introspected that it e. g. understands and it’s unfair to deny that, and any human they meet is indistinguishable from that, so how do they c < 1571406581 496625 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoose to believe or not? Antropocentrically < 1571406681 857746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"understanding" seems to be a deeply anthropomorphic concept to me. < 1571406732 260607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "can computers learn to solve problems involving infinity"? < 1571406767 100354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still vague, but at least it's moving closer to something testable. < 1571406775 972298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(didn't read the stackexchange link) < 1571406828 4434 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not that it isn’t, that had been tried to be clarified in various ways, but I’m at a loss to understand why wasn’t that done for “infinity”, as it is a topic of the question < 1571406857 490735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. < 1571406880 521720 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a link to some SO question about formalizing infinity, and I bet there were all kinds of infinities math has to offer, but I don’t think many commenters followed through with reading that < 1571406882 664814 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: You're not wrong! < 1571406909 67690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thank you :) < 1571406929 315512 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I tend to be wrong while heated < 1571406931 853259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd also focus on "undertanding" first. :) < 1571406942 46570 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was done too < 1571407084 98780 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a tangent, I’m slightly sad about antropocenteredness, cause it seems to be a reason of many bitter misunderstandings, as humans are modeled being more infailible that they are < 1571407163 825776 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s constructive to try to understand flaws in our hardware but it’s almost not being done, not even basics at schools (I presume, worldwide), not some other stuff in social media etc. < 1571407197 530413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay many know about logical fallacies but that’s not too many and that’s not enough I think < 1571407289 530914 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :by “not being done”, I mean not trying to discover them, that’s of course almost at its best now, as neurosciences go forward very fast, but trying to make general public aware < 1571407293 162951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a difference between anthropocentric thinking (I'm fine with that, really... we are humans after all and spend a lot of time with ourselves and other people) and ascribing super-Turing powers to humans :P < 1571407352 865097 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is a sort of mystification that I don't approve of. < 1571407394 689260 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as many of the flaws are quite good at not being noticed because of our filling-in gaps, another bittersweet architecture choice of evolution < 1571407420 816588 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: some antropocentrism is normal, I agree, but it seems there is a line somewhere < 1571407438 440637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in what is explicit and what is implicit < 1571407481 599438 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one is aware that she thinks antropocentrically, and why it needs to be so, it’s okay < 1571407520 98718 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the most part that’s all implicit, deep waters of unconscious patterns or something < 1571407536 396441 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the power of rationalizing that into some nonsense < 1571407723 373862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW that Oleg’s paper was interesting < 1571407751 368391 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationalization is the ultimate AI problem < 1571407784 680309 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can’t say I fully understand (eek) it but it seems nice (and maybe even useful to me in the future?) < 1571407876 206795 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :“The Reduceron reconfigured and re-evaluated” had shown me some useful things too if I’d wish to design a virtual machine for something near-functional < 1571407935 934853 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there’s only one left, about writing in Haskell enumeration of a regex’s language through FSAs < 1571408120 359774 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1571408531 788934 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they added randomness to the placeholder text? nice. < 1571409235 203879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder if you can have OpenSSH require two public keys instead of just one. < 1571409423 567286 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571409441 997927 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think its possible to write a quine in NeverGonna? < 1571409585 141301 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571409897 290929 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: two public keys? what do you mean? < 1571409949 430677 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you mean require that the user who logs in has the matching private key for _one_ of two public keys, because if so, you can do that, just put multiple keys (one per line) in the file that contains the public keys < 1571410081 101871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was thinking the user who logs in would need to have matching private keys for two different public keys. < 1571410103 691381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's unlikely to be a thing. < 1571410112 147172 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be trickier, yse < 1571410157 663157 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even such a thing in the SSL protocol that a client supports? how do I tell the client config to use two keys? < 1571410171 218136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can provide multiple identities, yes. < 1571410187 693494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely a SSH agent can hold multiple keys in memory, and will offer to use all of them when signing. < 1571410205 211938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might be that the details of the protocol prevent you from actually performing authentication with more than one. < 1571410243 921364 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how that works, I've always just put one explicit filename for each host in my client config file < 1571410252 472431 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one explicit private key filename that is < 1571410260 392300 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly different filenames for different hosts < 1571410280 901772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can (nowadays) configure OpenSSH to require multiple authentication *methods* (as in, "public key and password" e.g.), but that probably doesn't apply to multiple keys. < 1571410379 246441 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: multiple methods as in allow connections only from certain hosts but still ask for a key, sure < 1571410395 46099 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :public key and password is alternative, you can log in via either one < 1571410405 511800 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the client's choice then < 1571410410 694819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can require both. < 1571410416 750554 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can? ok < 1571410418 585684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Via the "AuthenticationMethods" option. < 1571410434 599988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, "publickey,password publickey,keyboard-interactive" would require the user to complete public key authentication, followed by or more comma-separated lists of authentication method names, or by the single string any to indicate the default behaviour of accepting any single authentication method." < 1571410447 175960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know this earlier either, only learned about it now. < 1571410460 25741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1571410465 12648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I messed up that copy-paste. < 1571410477 486469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, "publickey,password publickey,keyboard-interactive" would require the user to complete public key authentication, followed by either password or keyboard interactive authentication." < 1571410481 491867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost track on which line I was on. < 1571410552 521677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The context for this train of thought is, Android has a "secure hardware" thingamajick for keeping RSA and EC keys in, and asking the hardware to sign them. There's an SSH agent implementation that hooks that and allows secure hardware keys to be used as SSH keys -- https://github.com/aeolwyr/tergent -- but there's no way to attach a passphrase to that, the keys get unlocked when you unlock the device. < 1571410571 152552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking it might be reasonable to have both a key like that + a separate passphrase-protected private key, if you wanted to require more from SSH authentication than from in general unlocking the phone. Just because fingerprints are so convenient. < 1571410577 254844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in retrospect maybe that's not really much of a security benefit over just having a single passphrase-protected public key stored in a regular file. < 1571410949 376797 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could you just handle that on client-side, by encoding the second private key not by your passphrase, but by a tuple of your passphrase and something secret derived from the device key? < 1571411191 406955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, the only things I can ask the hardware to do is to sign something or to verify a signature, using the protected private key. So it's not entirely obvious how to use that for protecting the second private key. < 1571411251 423293 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, that's trickier < 1571411353 693021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess technically I could use the signature of my passphrase as the "something secret derived from the device key"? At least that works in the scenario where someone has the (second) private key file, and knows my passphrase. < 1571411387 344408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it would probably involve writing some code, I don't know if I want to go that far. < 1571411819 969789 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1571412193 941006 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think that's a good idea < 1571412202 667080 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cryptographically that is < 1571412263 677656 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask other people here who understand this crypto stuff though < 1571412660 617413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obviously not a good idea in the sense that knowing the passphrase and that one signature would be sufficient to decode the second private key file, as opposed to something where you would actually need to have control over the first private key and show you can sign anything with it. But it's not clear how to do that on the client side. < 1571412725 959428 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1571413923 338984 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1571414013 620177 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1571414097 822450 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1571414511 284966 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1571414582 648206 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1571414882 70513 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1571415043 368740 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit < 1571415162 543249 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1571416061 37844 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: Attribute grammars tho, amirite < 1571417034 688506 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :Excess Flood < 1571418231 623939 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1571418421 972353 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric < 1571418603 268041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it's back. < 1571419383 885139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1571419997 196952 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1571419999 949671 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: welcome < 1571420000 127262 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: to avoid cgi. anything beyond that becomes unmanageable to an alarming degree. it happens to work in < 1571420074 96672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot < 1571420074 312814 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: because the second a symbol and a tarpit, though. he's not back for real, l is for life and still not overflow any buffers will be flushed anyway. < 1571420096 943500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's poetic < 1571420105 597074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Now, is that CGI as in Common Gateway Interface, or as in computer-generated imagery, or something else? < 1571420105 644923 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but the possibility of using exceptions in another implementation < 1571420114 899408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're not back for real? < 1571420137 671333 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1571420869 353493 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: we like you < 1571420869 440080 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well there is real work to be done by someone else?" < 1571424618 234147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 2 3!8 < 1571424619 18675 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 28 56 < 1571424620 950998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ +/2 3!8 < 1571424621 667138 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 84 > 1571424701 36740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Someone else 5* 10New user account < 1571426044 421884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you know what I'd like in a browser? make the stop button terminate all network connections that the current tab initiates, including the ones that client-side scripts do. > 1571426136 609546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66691&oldid=66668 5* 03Someone else 5* (+317) 10 > 1571427315 453699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66692 5* 03Someone else 5* (+792) 10Created page with "A?! is a minimalistic programming language. All variables have alphanumeric names and boolean values and there are only 6 commands: A! - Negates the value of variable named..." > 1571427433 76673 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66693&oldid=66692 5* 03Someone else 5* (+60) 10 > 1571427525 71830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66694&oldid=66693 5* 03Someone else 5* (+16) 10 > 1571427714 459064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66695&oldid=66694 5* 03Someone else 5* (+62) 10 < 1571428257 507372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... says "There is a kind of beauty in simplicity and turing-completeness." to get our hopes up, then posts one of these languages that are not turing-complete, nor even missing turing-completeness in some interesting way < 1571428642 581117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :appreciates art. not an artist. < 1571428703 287414 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1571428709 783235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "I am interested in esolangs and I find it to be a lot of fun to try and create simple and elegant languages." < 1571428721 13781 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1571428723 958529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess they do say "try" < 1571428724 303197 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode NICK :imode < 1571428726 268913 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a page on esolangs that says the different kinds of langs? by some category? < 1571428769 187819 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is categories in esolang wiki > 1571429156 888269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66696&oldid=66695 5* 03Someone else 5* (+68) 10 < 1571429369 981476 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1571429990 638204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66697&oldid=66696 5* 03Someone else 5* (+234) 10 > 1571430011 645235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66698&oldid=66697 5* 03Someone else 5* (+2) 10 > 1571430038 333624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66699&oldid=66698 5* 03Someone else 5* (+9) 10 < 1571430214 359433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a cute book: https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1184961738518814720/pu/img/vJw7QjCDvI09mCuw.jpg < 1571430397 531720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from https://mobile.twitter.com/JanelleCShane/status/1184951446212530178 ... oh there are videos, actually < 1571430437 731553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(silly) < 1571436626 552410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1571436628 935333 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:darknet//The darknet is a world-encompassing network of underground gopher services. Said services are paid for in plant roots and earthworms. \ uwe boll//Uwe Boll is the undefined behavior of cinematography. \ spämmer//Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product. \ ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. \ piet//6Piet 4is 7a 8really 9colourful 2programming 13lang < 1571437139 981909 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:149e:e2d7:ed75:8c9a JOIN :#esoteric < 1571437337 962747 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:90ea:4e2a:a102:6111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1571438508 416956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I agree; I want the stop function to stop everything. < 1571438554 270911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything? < 1571439592 92435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what generation VIII stuff will be relevant for Pokemon mahjong?