00:01:08 <fizzie> sqrt(2), then? 
00:01:33 <Sgeo__> AFK for a bit
00:02:11 <Sgeo__> Seemed to work in 5?5 = 7, thank you
00:02:16 <Sgeo__> AFK for real
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00:33:23 <Sgeo__> q(5, q(5, q(5, 5)))
00:33:43 <Sgeo__> = 9
00:33:54 <Sgeo__> Sadly 5?5?5 != 8
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02:00:12 <int-e> Sgeo__: the ln-based one is actually fairly easy to implement observing that a?b = max(a,b)?min(a,b), and a?b = a + ln(1 + e^(b-a)) = a + log1p(exp(b-a)) (ensuring a > b first ensures that the exp() doesn't overflow).
02:00:23 <int-e> err, a >= b.
02:00:52 <int-e> Sgeo__: (I've read this somewhere, some article about log domain computations. I forgot what the source was, though.)
02:01:36 <int-e> The other point is that using log1p avoids truncation problems from adding 1 to a very small number.
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02:27:08 <Sgeo__> There wouldn't happen to be a logarithm base that keeps its argument constant for all inputs or at least those that are an integer 2 or greater, I assume
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02:29:35 <Sgeo__> What if, instead of getting x?x = x+2 and x?x?x = x+3, I settle for... maybe something like doing the operation 2^a times gets what I want?
02:31:41 <int-e> x?x = x+2 and x?x?x = x+3 doesn't make sense? you can only have one of a^2 = 2 or a^3 = 3.
02:32:06 <int-e> a being the base (don't ask me why I didn't pick b)
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02:47:10 <Sgeo__> I think I want to go back to a?b = log_2(2^a + 2^b). Do that operation 2^n times (or is it 2^n - 1 times?) with x you get x+n
02:53:43 <int-e> log1p(exp2(b-a))/log(2) is ugly though
02:54:39 * Sgeo__ is less looking for implementation prettiness than an answer to If ^ is repeated * and * is repeated +, then + is repeated ?
02:55:30 <int-e> + is repeated "add 1"
02:56:46 <Sgeo__> That's a unary operator though
02:57:13 <int-e> so is "multiply by a" in a^b
02:59:30 <int-e> > let add a b = iterate (+1) a !! b; mul a b = iterate (+a) 0 !! b; pow a b = iterate (*a) 1 !! b -- function iteration is the unifying pattern here, what's not to like?
02:59:32 <lambdabot>  <no location info>: error:
02:59:32 <lambdabot>      not an expression: ‘let add a b = iterate (+1) a !! b; mul a b = iterate...
02:59:43 <int-e> @botsnack
02:59:43 <lambdabot> :)
03:08:06 <int-e> x?y = (x == y ? x + 2 : x + 1) ==> (x?x)?x = x+3.
03:11:33 <int-e> You can't hope for ? to be associative because then x+6 = x?x?x?x?x?x = (x?x?x)?(x?x?x) = (x+3)?(x+3) = x+5.
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03:26:12 <int-e> Sgeo__: Ah why am I making it so complicated. You'd want x+1 = x (one "iteration" of ?).
03:59:06 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/common.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66764 * Moon * (+154) Add my wikimap widget so I can easily jump between sites.
04:16:49 <esowiki> [[User:Moon]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66765&oldid=49813 * Moon * (+46) Redirected page to [[wikipedia:User:MoonyTheDwarf]]
04:36:16 <esowiki> [[User:Moon]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66766&oldid=66765 * Moon * (+15) Move to a landing page that points users toward my esolang talk page, to avoid interwiki chatter.
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07:13:12 <b_jonas> `echo ``` >>share/whatis echo 'ddate(1) - convert Gregorian dates to Discordian dates'
07:13:13 <HackEso> ​``` >>share/whatis echo 'ddate(1) - convert Gregorian dates to Discordian dates'
07:13:22 <b_jonas> ``` >>share/whatis echo 'ddate(1) - convert Gregorian dates to Discordian dates'
07:13:24 <HackEso> No output.
07:13:25 <b_jonas> `whatis ddate
07:13:26 <HackEso> ddate(1) - convert Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
07:13:46 <b_jonas> arseniiv: ^ fixed
07:18:59 <b_jonas> as fizzie points out, it's in /usr/bin , so the description goes to the man 1 section, rather than the 1hackeso where the description of hackeso commands go
07:28:03 <b_jonas> Where's the documentation of the ploki language? the wiki doesn't seem to have a link
07:29:17 <b_jonas> ``` ploki <<<"(6+7"
07:29:18 <HackEso> 13
07:30:28 <b_jonas> ``` ploki <<<"(6+7)"
07:30:29 <HackEso> 13
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08:00:31 <myname> what do you guys think of kitten?
08:15:47 <shachaf> I like kittens.
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11:08:58 <wib_jonas> ais523 and other M:tG folks: we are restarting the "vanishing three card blind" M:tG game at www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?601011 , you should consider to participate.
11:10:19 <wib_jonas> Let me tell quickly how this works. Each round, every player secretly chooses a deck of three cards that you'll play. You don't have to buy or borrow the cards, so you can use even the most expensive cards if you want. 
11:11:37 <wib_jonas> You send the deck in a message to a trusted organizer. After every player (at least five) chose a deck, the organizer reveals the decks. Then we simulate each ordered pair of two different players independently playing a game of M:tG against each other using their deck.
11:12:41 <wib_jonas> In the game, players don't lose by decking. Everyone has perfect information about hidden cards and hidden decisions. We simulate the games such that each player plays perfectly such that they win the game if they can, or draw if they can't win but can draw.
11:13:58 <wib_jonas> Players get 3 points for a won game and 1 point for a drawn game. Then we add the points each player has got for the round, and the players who have the most points from that round is declared the winner of that round, they get bragging rights, and all cards in the decks are banned from future rounds.
11:14:20 <wib_jonas> Oh, and the most important part. Decks have exactly 3 cards.
11:16:59 <wib_jonas> At the start, all cards released by Wizards are allowed, except for avatar, plane, phenomenon, scheme, conspiracy cards.  There are some further rules that come up, such as about randomness and Wishes, but the above are the main rules.
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11:30:23 <esowiki> [[It Online]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66767 * A * (+134) Created page with "[[It Online]] is a language with a weird self-modification scheme. [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:2019]] [[Category:Unimplemented]]"
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11:34:11 <esowiki> [[It Online]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66768&oldid=66767 * A * (+510) Someday in school in math class. Jerry is sitting in the front of Yolanda and in the back of Sophie. Due to her bad sitting habits, Yolanda pushes her desk forward; it seems like she is falling asleep. Since there is less space less for Jerry, Jerry also
11:41:48 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66769&oldid=66768 * A * (+1051) 
11:44:40 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66770&oldid=66769 * A * (+409) /* Rules */
11:44:55 <esowiki> [[It Online]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66771&oldid=66770 * A * (+2) /* Overview */
11:46:35 <esowiki> [[It Online]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66772&oldid=66771 * A * (+294) 
11:50:23 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66773&oldid=66772 * A * (+96) 
11:52:51 <wib_jonas> Oh, and the 5 basic lands and the 15 storage lands are exempt from banning.
11:53:01 <wib_jonas> I knew I forgot something.
11:53:33 <wib_jonas> or maybe the 11 basic lands, I don't know
11:56:42 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66774&oldid=66773 * A * (+695) /* Table of moving directions of atoms */
11:57:05 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66775&oldid=66774 * A * (-47) /* Table of more self-modifying rules */
11:58:22 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66776&oldid=66775 * A * (+108) /* Overview */
11:59:37 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66777&oldid=66776 * A * (+124) /* Table of moving directions of atoms */
12:16:11 <int-e> "all cards in the decks"? even those that lost?
12:16:43 <wib_jonas> int-e: all cards in the decks that won
12:16:50 <wib_jonas> the decks of the winning players
12:17:04 <wib_jonas> that's usually only one player and two or three cards banned per round, but could be more if there's a tied score
12:17:09 <int-e> ah. ties. of course.
12:18:31 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66778&oldid=66777 * A * (+87) /* Table of moving directions of atoms */
12:18:38 <int-e> . o O ( So this will eventually end in hands full of lands and all draws. Of course people will probably lose interest long before that. )
12:19:39 <esowiki> [[It Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66779&oldid=66778 * A * (-86) I am dumb. REMEMBER THAT THE PROGRAM COUNTER CONSUMES AN INSTRUCTION!
12:25:29 <wib_jonas> int-e: only if we play faster than Wizards can release new card
12:26:48 <wib_jonas> int-e: but we only got to 100 banned cards
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14:05:59 <esowiki> [[Main Page]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66780&oldid=60898 * Moon * (+40) Add note about language name possibly being taken.
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14:15:46 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66781 * Moon * (+3072) Copy over mainpage.
14:39:53 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66782&oldid=66781 * Moon * (-2524) Scratch that, i'll rebuild it by hand.
15:02:07 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66783&oldid=66782 * Moon * (+173) if you can read this (I bet you can, IRC watchers) please put ideas for links to go on the right of the introduction on this page's talk page, [[User Talk:Moon/proposed_mainpage_renovations]]
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15:22:16 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66784&oldid=66783 * Moon * (+334) Some links. May need more?
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15:35:28 <moonheart08> Hi
15:47:11 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66785&oldid=66784 * Moon * (+2) 
15:48:06 <esowiki> [[Main Page]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66786&oldid=66780 * Moon * (+10) Change the random link to a random language instead of page, as I suspect most users will be interested in a language, not something else.
15:48:31 <esowiki> [[Main Page]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66787&oldid=66786 * Moon * (-1) .. -> . (damnit)
15:49:38 <moonheart08> fizzie: you think the small adjustments I've made to the main page are OK?
16:13:34 <kspalaiologos> as for my personal opinion
16:13:41 <kspalaiologos> I think we don't need them, but they are fine
16:13:57 <kspalaiologos> navbar on the left does exactly the same
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16:52:00 <moonheart08> Hia ais523
16:52:06 <ais523> hi
16:52:31 <moonheart08> Made some small changes to main page, if you feel like reviewing em
16:53:17 <ais523> that seems like a reasonable enough change
16:54:59 <moonheart08> Working on a full redesign of mp for fun, as well. New page patrol on wikipedia can get boring
17:02:04 <moonheart08> ais523: how much spam does the wiki recieve nowadays? Doesn't seem like much at all
17:02:43 <ais523> basically none at the moment, the "Introduce yourself" thing was very effective because spambot frameworks don't know how to deal with it
17:02:58 <moonheart08> Nice.
17:04:02 <ais523> that said, they've mostly stopped trying now; I don't know whether or not they'd start again if we relaxed the restrictions
17:04:21 <moonheart08> Hm.
17:04:52 <moonheart08> Trial run is always possible. I don't mind watching recent changes for a bit if you do that
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17:06:34 <moonheart08> oy
17:06:39 <moonheart08> Er
17:06:44 <moonheart08> o/
17:09:38 <ais523> I'll wait for some of the other admins to chime in with opinions
17:09:43 <ais523> but it's a fairly easy setting to change
17:10:20 <moonheart08> If I apply for admin, does my opinion count double? /s
17:10:54 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66788&oldid=66785 * Moon * (+247) Testing further layout...
17:12:15 <moonheart08> ais523 that look decent for you? I'm testing on a smallish laptop display, and i'ma bet you have a bigger display.
17:12:58 <ais523> I'm also on a fairly small display, but even so there's a lot of wasted space
17:13:28 <ais523> I guess that isn't automatically a bad thing when it comes to a main page, but I don't really like the look
17:13:30 <moonheart08> Yea.. Trying to figure out what I can put in the top bar. The main section will be similar to the existing layout
17:13:58 <ais523> (also the "demonstrate recursion" link won't actually work on the Main Page itself, due to the code designed for navboxes that highlights the self-link and makes it unclickable)
17:14:35 <moonheart08> (Aw. Luckily that link's probably not final)
17:15:32 <int-e> That joke's been overdone anyway.
17:15:44 <moonheart08> I noticed
17:15:59 <moonheart08> Hence why it probably wont stay
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17:23:30 <b_jonas> moonheart08, main page: I think it'd be better not to mention "assuming the name is not already taken". That will give people the idea of giving bad names to esolangs.
17:24:01 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66789&oldid=66788 * Moon * (+274) add 6 more links
17:25:00 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66790&oldid=66789 * Moon * (+28) Uh, 3 links. I ment 3. Add a border.
17:25:29 <b_jonas> moonheart08: will you also improve [[History]]?
17:36:31 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66791&oldid=66790 * Moon * (+445) Box nonsense. Will redo into a template in a bit.. Currently a mess.
17:37:39 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66792&oldid=66791 * Moon * (-24) Remove a border. Too many borders syndrome.
17:41:13 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66793&oldid=66792 * Moon * (-3) Give header a backround so it stands out. Remove extraneous border.
17:43:17 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66794&oldid=66793 * Moon * (+720) For Creators
17:48:09 <esowiki> [[User:Moon/proposed mainpage renovations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66795&oldid=66794 * Moon * (+1675) Next up: Rewrite the contents of these sections, and reconsider which ones should be present. Basic layout /may/ be done now.
18:03:03 <moonheart08> b_jonas maybe
18:07:38 <moonheart08> ais523: how's the layout now?
18:10:20 <ais523> it's pretty similar to what we have now
18:10:37 <ais523> the featured language should possibly be a bit less prominent because we don't update it very often
18:11:13 <ais523> also, you removed the description of what the site is; that's a) important for new readers and b) probably important for SEO
18:11:32 <b_jonas> I think the featured language is importat, because it will be new for newcomers, and they're the ones reading the main page
18:11:38 <ais523> I think I prefer the original layout
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18:32:11 <kspalaiologos> eh
18:32:15 <kspalaiologos> any cool ideas on Brainfuck program?
18:32:31 <kspalaiologos> I thought about some kind of game
18:32:41 <kspalaiologos> but i'm too stupid to think of a nice storyline
18:33:20 <kspalaiologos> it would be the best if it involved small amount of calculations
18:34:37 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: 99 beers?
18:34:43 <kspalaiologos> ooh c
18:34:44 <kspalaiologos> 'mon
18:34:48 <b_jonas> I mean 99 bottles of beer
18:34:48 <kspalaiologos> that's too simple
18:35:06 <kspalaiologos> i'm tired of calculations after projecteuler
18:35:16 <kspalaiologos> solved in brainfuck, obviously
18:35:52 <kspalaiologos> I'll go with a minesweeper
18:36:12 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: Lissajous curves, either ascii art like https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=621188 or PPM?
18:36:14 <lf94> Someone should actually create a real stone with all the 99 bottles of beer samples
18:36:17 <lf94> I would pay for it
18:36:20 <b_jonas> oh, minesweeper may be a good one
18:36:32 <b_jonas> lf94: would one in minecraft work?
18:36:32 <lf94> maybe not stone but steel
18:36:44 <kspalaiologos> lf94, you can just yank the stuff from rosetta
18:36:48 <kspalaiologos> put it on a stone tablet
18:36:53 <lf94> > you
18:36:55 <lambdabot>  error: Variable not in scope: you
18:36:55 <kspalaiologos> and you're pretty much allset
18:36:57 <lf94> sorry, not me :) someone else.
18:37:09 <lf94> (I dont have time for that!)
18:37:17 <kspalaiologos> why are you sitting on #esoteric then
18:37:25 <kspalaiologos> we are here only to waste time
18:37:34 <b_jonas> lf94: google image search gives some images of shelves with 99 bottles of beer
18:38:20 <kspalaiologos> arkanoid in brainfuck
18:38:24 <lf94> kspalaiologos: yes, it's much more enjoyable sitting in #esoteric than chiselling 99 bottles of beer into a rock.
18:38:24 <b_jonas> I have a minesweeper program that I've written for the EL-5120 calculator
18:38:41 <lf94> kspalaiologos: be my guest, though :D
18:38:55 <kspalaiologos> b_jonas, when my TI-83 arrives
18:38:59 <b_jonas> there's the slight problem that the player can cheat because they can read the contents of variables during prompts, but that's unavoidable given the limitations of the calculator
18:39:07 <kspalaiologos> we both know what I will do
18:39:09 <b_jonas> I also wrote a maze program
18:39:17 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: what will you do?
18:39:27 <lf94> bad things
18:39:41 <kspalaiologos> I'll start off with brainfuck interpreter obviously
18:39:54 <b_jonas> ouch
18:39:57 <kspalaiologos> then I'll port my asm2bf infrastructure to TI-Basic or z80 assembly
18:40:15 <kspalaiologos> I can't wait to waste 10+ hours
18:41:11 <b_jonas> that sounds scary
18:41:20 <kspalaiologos> exciting
18:41:32 <kspalaiologos> brainfuck on a calculator is the thing I haven't yet seen in my life
18:43:54 <b_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations and search for "calculator"
18:44:17 <b_jonas> lists several implementations of bf on calculators
18:47:04 <lf94> kspalaiologos: there's gameboy brainfuck interpreter
18:47:10 <lf94> just as "good"
18:48:33 <b_jonas> s/EL-5120/Sharp EL-5120/
18:48:49 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: also talk to kmc, she does esoteric stuff with TI programmable calculators
18:51:57 <b_jonas> or wait, maybe I'm mixing her with someone else on the channel
18:52:23 <kspalaiologos> btw, do you recognize Seed?
18:52:56 <b_jonas> no
18:53:01 <kspalaiologos> around a month ago I wrote a generator for it
18:53:04 <kspalaiologos> I loved the experience
18:53:12 <kspalaiologos> and +40/+116 on codegolf.stackexchange.net too
18:53:25 <kspalaiologos> tl:dr; the program consists of two numbers
18:53:29 <kspalaiologos> the length and seed
18:53:39 <kspalaiologos> seed is fed to mersenne twister, length bytes are taken
18:53:45 <kspalaiologos> stuff is dumped to befunge interpreter and then ran
18:53:59 <kspalaiologos> I took my time to prove that seed is turing complete
18:54:10 <moonheart08> kspalaiologos: a large number of people want your generator :p
18:54:13 <kspalaiologos> and it's somewhere at the bottom of the esolangs page
18:54:18 <kspalaiologos> moonheart08, I realise :p
18:54:39 <kspalaiologos> I can give out a couple of tips
18:54:48 <kspalaiologos> but I don't feel like runing the fun and spirit of seed
18:55:02 <moonheart08> That's a good reason not to
18:55:05 <moonheart08> So i'm good
18:55:29 <kspalaiologos> moonheart08, you're active on codegolf?
18:55:46 <kspalaiologos> I used to write dozens of Malbolge, Brainfuck and Seed programs for these guys
18:55:51 <moonheart08> Sometimes
18:55:51 <kspalaiologos> but now I don't feel like it makes any sense
18:55:54 <moonheart08> Not lately
18:56:20 <moonheart08> I very occasionally do golf in x86-64 assembly
18:56:36 <kspalaiologos> ah yes, you're a man of culture aswell
18:56:42 <kmc> b_jonas: not really
18:56:45 <kmc> I did a very long time ago
18:56:45 <kspalaiologos> I like golfing stuff in assembly too
18:56:49 <kmc> Hooloovo0 does TI stuff though
18:57:00 <kspalaiologos> I'm already going to get TI shipped to me btw
18:57:01 <moonheart08> X86 is a dumpster fire
18:57:04 <kspalaiologos> I don't really know how to use it
18:57:08 <kspalaiologos> moonheart08, probably
18:57:09 <moonheart08> And I know it well
18:57:10 <kspalaiologos> but I love it anyway
18:57:22 <kspalaiologos> it's very intriguing and lovely
18:57:37 <kspalaiologos> simple in it's dumpsterfireness
18:58:12 <kspalaiologos> btw, I'm still getting a daily upvote on doublespeak
18:59:02 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: I presume you use some turing-complete header that reads the length of the program and executes it
18:59:06 <b_jonas> for seed
18:59:27 <kspalaiologos> I can't seem to understand
18:59:32 <moonheart08> kspalaiologos, > simple
18:59:33 <moonheart08> I wish
18:59:51 <kspalaiologos> my proof is basing on first proving that bytebytejump is turing complete by simulation
19:00:18 <kspalaiologos> and then I simulate bytebytejump in befunge
19:00:33 <kspalaiologos> and then I do the magic with my ouija board somewhere in the drawer
19:00:47 <kspalaiologos> the resulting program is at the end of pdf iirc
19:01:22 <kspalaiologos> I didn't simulate brainfuck in befunge and then convert it into seed
19:01:27 <kspalaiologos> it seems like a straightforward way
19:01:29 <kspalaiologos> but it's not
19:01:42 <kspalaiologos> the smallest brainfuck interpreter in befunge I could get was way too big to be processed by my generator
19:01:57 <kspalaiologos> for the curious, the limit is around 624/4 bytes
19:02:10 <kspalaiologos> so it's quite limited
19:02:19 <kspalaiologos> but the generator is very, very high quality
19:02:35 <kspalaiologos> 4 141745954
19:02:40 <kspalaiologos> a very simple adder made by the generator
19:02:52 <kspalaiologos> while the seed program is usually around 2-4 kilobytes big
19:09:19 <moonheart08> Hm
19:09:36 <moonheart08> I wonder why interwiki redirects work on esolangs.org, but not wikipedia
19:10:00 <moonheart08> (My esolangs userpage is a redirect, go try it. User:Moon)
19:10:22 <kspalaiologos> i've seen it
19:10:29 <kspalaiologos> on your edits i clicked on your user page
19:10:44 <kspalaiologos> and I got redirected, at first i didn't know what happened
19:10:53 <kspalaiologos> after ten or so seconds I realised that I'm on wikipedia now
19:11:37 <moonheart08> I put a helpful header in place, as I realised some might get confused looking for, say, my talk page
19:12:06 <kspalaiologos> i saw something on your talk page
19:12:12 <kspalaiologos> but it was too long for me to remember it now or read
19:12:48 <moonheart08> Was ais checking that I had the right to release something into public domain
19:19:58 <b_jonas> ``` \? ais523 # hmm, is this new?
19:19:59 <HackEso> Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good.
19:20:34 <b_jonas> no it's not
19:21:24 <int-e> "Iä"? I though it was just "I", hmm.
19:21:40 <b_jonas> I just forgot about it
19:22:34 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat -r 4530 wisdom/ais523
19:22:35 <HackEso> ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented.
19:23:37 <kspalaiologos> ``` hg --help
19:23:38 <HackEso> Mercurial Distributed SCM \  \ list of commands: \  \  add           add the specified files on the next commit \  addremove     add all new files, delete all missing files \  annotate      show changeset information by line for each file \  archive       create an unversioned archive of a repository revision \  backout       reverse effect of earlier changeset \  bisect        subdivision search of changesets \  bookmarks     create a new boo
19:23:48 <kspalaiologos> i freakin knew this was mercurial
19:23:51 <kspalaiologos> but the invocation, eh
19:24:03 <b_jonas> I was wondering if I should fold quote 1289 into the wisdom about him, but I think it works better as a quote
19:24:14 <kspalaiologos> quote 1289?
19:24:15 <kspalaiologos> the heck?
19:24:26 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: try the quote command of HackEso
19:24:33 <kspalaiologos> `quote
19:24:34 <HackEso> 101) <coppro> what's the data of? [...] <Sgeo> Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation  <coppro> I have no problems with you being interested in online games  <coppro> but the necrophilia is disturbing
19:24:40 <kspalaiologos> can you add the quote?
19:24:43 <b_jonas> yes
19:24:45 <b_jonas> `? addquote
19:24:46 <kspalaiologos> I want to add a quote
19:24:47 <HackEso> addquote? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:24:50 <b_jonas> `? quote
19:24:51 <b_jonas> hmm
19:24:51 <HackEso> Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
19:24:55 <b_jonas> there was one about quote syntax
19:24:58 <kspalaiologos> `addquote <lf94> kspalaiologos: yes, it's much more enjoyable sitting in #esoteric than chiselling 99 bottles of beer into a rock.
19:24:58 <b_jonas> `whatis addquote
19:25:00 <HackEso> addquote(1hackeso) - no description
19:25:00 <b_jonas> `? quote syntax
19:25:02 <HackEso> 1337) <lf94> kspalaiologos: yes, it's much more enjoyable sitting in #esoteric than chiselling 99 bottles of beer into a rock.
19:25:03 <HackEso> quote syntax? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:25:10 <b_jonas> `? quotedb
19:25:10 <kspalaiologos> ha! 1337
19:25:11 <HackEso> quotedb? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:25:19 <kspalaiologos> `quote 1337
19:25:20 <HackEso> 1337) <lf94> kspalaiologos: yes, it's much more enjoyable sitting in #esoteric than chiselling 99 bottles of beer into a rock.
19:25:28 <kspalaiologos> so leet number
19:25:28 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: yes, some regular always prunes the quote database to be just shy of 1337
19:25:30 <lf94> nice.
19:25:37 <lf94> I'm going to be remembered after I die now.
19:25:45 <b_jonas> `? qdb
19:25:46 <HackEso> qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat
19:25:52 <kspalaiologos> lf94, lo.
19:25:54 <b_jonas> `? quoteformat
19:25:55 <kspalaiologos> *lol
19:25:56 <HackEso> quoteformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two.
19:26:19 <kspalaiologos> `quote 1289
19:26:20 <HackEso> 1289) <ais523> hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps
19:26:28 <kspalaiologos> lol xD?
19:26:55 <b_jonas> `q 1336
19:26:55 <HackEso> 1336) <kspalaiologos> I have made a chess engine in Malbolge  <kspalaiologos> in theory it's decent  <kspalaiologos> but it has two drawbacks  <kspalaiologos> a) It requires 31 and a half gigabytes of memory  <kspalaiologos> b) it's quicker to count atoms in universe than to run it
19:27:03 <b_jonas> ^ you already would have been remembered
19:27:26 <kspalaiologos> lmao
19:27:40 <kspalaiologos> can you view the entire quote database?
19:27:42 <int-e> b_jonas: you're mixing up nicks, I think
19:27:55 <b_jonas> int-e: um, which nicks?
19:27:55 <int-e> (just observing. happens to me all the time.)
19:27:56 <kspalaiologos> or I have to write tcl script to send `q with consecutive numbers?
19:28:08 <b_jonas> where?
19:28:13 <int-e> b_jonas: lf94 and kspalaiologos
19:28:27 <b_jonas> ah
19:28:29 <b_jonas> I see
19:28:37 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos added a quote of lf94
19:28:42 <b_jonas> `q 1337
19:28:43 <HackEso> 1337) <lf94> kspalaiologos: yes, it's much more enjoyable sitting in #esoteric than chiselling 99 bottles of beer into a rock.
19:28:46 <b_jonas> but then
19:28:51 <b_jonas> no wait
19:29:00 <b_jonas> both of then will be remembered, because both of them are named in that quote
19:29:08 <kspalaiologos> pff
19:29:13 <kspalaiologos> `q -1
19:29:14 <HackEso> ​/bin/sed: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: /bin/sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \  \   -n, --quiet, --silent \                  suppress automatic printing of pattern space \   -e script, --expression=script \                  add the script to the commands to be executed \   -f script-file, --file=script-file \                  add the contents of script-file to the commands to be executed \   --follow-symlin
19:29:17 <kspalaiologos> ha!
19:29:21 <kspalaiologos> i crashed you!
19:29:25 <int-e> `"
19:29:26 <HackEso> 781) <zzo38> Because, if it is all wrong, then I should fix it please \ 839) <sgeo> GreyKnight, shachaf is like a high-level Forth
19:29:33 <b_jonas> but yeah, lf94 wasn't in the qdb before
19:29:37 <kspalaiologos> `"
19:29:37 <HackEso> 421) <monqy> cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people"  <oerjan> yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it.  take it from a norwegian. \ 1010) <elliott> sometimes i wake up and my name has grown more consonants
19:29:45 <kspalaiologos> `"
19:29:45 <HackEso> 911) <Sgeo> I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose \ 71) <fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here  <oklokok> ...i don't know :<  <oklokok> i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things...
19:29:56 <kspalaiologos> can I read this stuff without having you to read it with me?
19:30:05 <moonheart08> Pm the bot
19:30:10 <int-e> `url quotes
19:30:14 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/quotes
19:30:16 <kspalaiologos> the bot doesnt reply on pm
19:30:20 <moonheart08> Huh
19:30:24 <moonheart08> It used to
19:30:28 <kspalaiologos> thats what i've been looking for
19:30:33 <kspalaiologos> oh wait, it does
19:30:37 <kspalaiologos> but it has a very big latency
19:30:50 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: logging in to nickserv may help make it respond
19:31:02 <kspalaiologos> what is nickserv
19:31:11 <kspalaiologos> haven't I logged in?
19:31:14 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: also you can read in #esoteric-blah , or just `paste quotes or something
19:31:19 <int-e> kspalaiologos: you have
19:31:27 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: you are, but maybe you weren't when you found that it wasn't responding
19:31:30 <b_jonas> `paste quotes
19:31:31 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/quotes
19:31:39 <int-e> b_jonas: `url is cleaner :P
19:31:45 <shachaf> ha! 839
19:31:54 <b_jonas> `url quotes
19:31:55 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/quotes
19:32:00 <kspalaiologos> `q 839
19:32:02 <b_jonas> huh
19:32:02 <HackEso> 839) <sgeo> GreyKnight, shachaf is like a high-level Forth
19:32:06 <b_jonas> `? url
19:32:08 <HackEso> url? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:32:11 <b_jonas> `whatis url
19:32:12 <HackEso> url(7) - uniform resource identifier (URI), including a URL or URN \ url(1hackeso) - print URL to view contents of a hackenv file \ url(8lambdabot) - no description
19:32:13 <b_jonas> `whatis paste
19:32:14 <kspalaiologos> this emote, lol
19:32:14 <HackEso> paste(1) - merge lines of files \ paste(1p) - merge corresponding or subsequent lines of files \ paste(1hackeso) - print URL to read a file in hackenv through web \ paste(8lambdabot) - no description
19:32:27 <shachaf> 839
19:32:29 <shachaf> what a number
19:32:41 <int-e> prime
19:33:27 <kspalaiologos> `q 158
19:33:28 <HackEso> 158) <ais523> fizzie: 50kB is quite a lot
19:33:32 <kspalaiologos> and that's a fact
19:33:33 <moonheart08> Hm
19:33:43 <kspalaiologos> depends though
19:33:48 <moonheart08> Who would I have to ask to get a extension added to esolangs.org
19:33:53 <kspalaiologos> 50 kilobytes of seed is a freaking LOT
19:33:59 <moonheart08> (SyntaxHighlight)
19:34:02 <kspalaiologos> 50 kilobytes of brainfuck is meh, normal size
19:34:12 <kspalaiologos> why would we add syntaxhighlight
19:34:14 <int-e> b_jonas: I don't think any regular has been pruning the quotes file to keep it at 1336 or below. I've just repeatedly suggested that we should :P
19:34:14 <kspalaiologos> this has no sense
19:34:34 <b_jonas> int-e: I'm not necessarily saying keeping below, just keeping not much over
19:34:55 <kspalaiologos> 50 kilobytes of malbolge is actually a very small number
19:34:59 <kspalaiologos> why  would we trim the quotes though
19:35:04 <b_jonas> lf94: is your "remembered" reaction because you've written a thesis for a degree and realized that nobody will read it, ever?
19:35:04 <moonheart08> kspalaiologos: Either that, or enable Scribunto so that users can add syntax highlighting to their language(s)
19:35:25 <kspalaiologos> probably
19:35:25 <int-e> b_jonas: https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/quotes <-- shouldn't we be seeing many more delquotes here, though
19:35:27 <moonheart08> Via a script
19:35:42 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: to make the average quote have a higher quality
19:35:54 <kspalaiologos> so the bad quotes are trimmed?
19:35:57 <b_jonas> yes
19:35:58 <kspalaiologos> by the human?
19:36:02 <b_jonas> yes
19:36:02 <int-e> b_jonas: I think the truth is that we've been *very* slow at adding quotes.
19:36:25 <int-e> I'm tempted to change `quote and co to skip that number though. But it sounds like work...
19:36:40 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: ok, take what I'm saying with a large grain of salt, apparently I keep inventing mythology about this community and believing in them
19:37:05 <kspalaiologos> at least someone is doing weirder stuff than me
19:37:11 <b_jonas> int-e: that would confuse me a lot, at least the first time, since sometimes I grep -n foobar quotes
19:37:13 <lf94> b_jonas: what
19:37:19 <lf94> no, lol
19:37:38 <kspalaiologos> ```tr \n / <<<"mov r1,.0/out r1" | bfasm
19:37:39 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``tr: not found
19:37:41 <b_jonas> lf94: sorry, it's a rather common human experience, it was worth a shot I think
19:37:44 <kspalaiologos> ``` tr \n / <<<"mov r1,.0/out r1" | bfasm
19:37:45 <HackEso> ​+>+[#
19:37:52 <kspalaiologos> ``` tr / \n <<<"mov r1,.0/out r1" | bfasm
19:37:53 <HackEso> ​+>+[#
19:37:55 <kspalaiologos> hmm
19:38:11 <int-e> I think you want \\n
19:38:16 <kspalaiologos> exactly
19:38:20 <kspalaiologos> ``` tr / \\n <<<"mov r1,.0/out r1" | bfasm
19:38:20 <HackEso> ​+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>[-]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
19:38:23 <kspalaiologos> perfect
19:38:43 <kspalaiologos> I'll move to the blah channel for a second
19:39:02 <imode> blah channel?
19:39:12 <kspalaiologos> #esoteric-blah
19:39:21 <imode> that's botspam innit?
19:39:40 <imode> rather, a channel dedicated to botspam.
19:39:40 <int-e> that has bot spam in it
19:39:43 <int-e> :P
19:39:50 <imode> what flavor.
19:39:58 <moonheart08> Orange
19:40:02 <int-e> eww
19:40:09 <b_jonas> `? #esoteric-blah
19:40:12 <HackEso> ​#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
19:40:18 <moonheart08> Would you prefer green flavor?
19:40:20 <moonheart08> Or yellow?
19:40:26 <int-e> orange flavored spam... that's genuinely cringe-worthy.
19:40:28 <moonheart08> How about black
19:40:38 <imode> int-e: reminds me of dishes made in the 70's.
19:40:41 <int-e> I'd rather have soylent green. I think.
19:40:56 <imode> black spam sounds like blood pudding but mass-produced.
19:41:00 <int-e> `? spoiler
19:41:01 <HackEso> Don't give movie spoilers on channel. If you do, hppavilion may hire a hitman to hunt you down in real life and torture you in refined ways.
19:41:16 <moonheart08> I haven't seen hppa in a whike
19:41:27 <b_jonas> moonheart08: he was here very recently
19:41:35 <b_jonas> look in the logs
19:41:38 <kspalaiologos> once again
19:41:42 <kspalaiologos> how do you add wisdom entry
19:41:51 <moonheart08> int-e: Maybe give soylent green flavored spam a try
19:41:51 <imode> they just appear.
19:41:52 <kspalaiologos> i forgot it already
19:42:20 <kspalaiologos> `?
19:42:21 <HackEso> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:42:24 <kspalaiologos> `? wisdom
19:42:25 <HackEso> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
19:42:32 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: with learn or with le//rn or by creating files in the wisdom directory such that the filename is all lowercase and doesn't end in an s
19:42:38 <kspalaiologos> ah, ok I remember now
19:42:44 <kspalaiologos> `? le//rn
19:42:45 <HackEso> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
19:42:53 <moonheart08> Why can't wisdom entries end in a s
19:43:13 <b_jonas> moonheart08: they can, but it's better if they don't, because bin/\? can remove the trailing s
19:43:17 <b_jonas> `? wisdoms
19:43:19 <HackEso> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
19:43:20 <b_jonas> `? wisdom
19:43:21 <HackEso> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
19:43:22 <b_jonas> ^ same entry
19:43:25 <int-e> I want to put an actual spoiler in there... Also, sleds are made from people who have been dead all along.
19:43:26 <moonheart08> Ah
19:43:33 <int-e> Or something along those lines.
19:43:51 <b_jonas> int-e: after the relevant xkcd, it's not funny a second time
19:44:11 <b_jonas> int-e: https://www.xkcd.com/109/
19:44:22 <b_jonas> though coincidentally, the latest xkcd is also about spoilers
19:44:46 <moonheart08> XKCD is always relevant
19:44:49 <moonheart08> Always.
19:45:30 -!- sprocklem has joined.
19:45:31 <int-e> It's like other tomes. 2219 xkcds, there's one for every situation.
19:46:26 <moonheart08> Is therr one for someone being smashed by a giant sperm whale?
19:46:52 <imode> probably.
19:46:52 <b_jonas> moonheart08: there's HHGG for that
19:47:00 <moonheart08> ?
19:47:10 <int-e> moonheart08: What b_jonas said.
19:47:21 <moonheart08> What's that
19:47:27 <int-e> (I'd spell it HHGttG though)
19:47:43 <imode> the pronunciation sounds like someone having a heart attack.
19:47:59 <int-e> moonheart08: The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
19:48:09 <b_jonas> `? hhgg
19:48:12 <HackEso> hhgg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:48:14 <b_jonas> `? hhgttg
19:48:15 <HackEso> hhgttg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:48:16 <b_jonas> `? h2g2
19:48:17 <HackEso> h2g2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:48:19 <b_jonas> hmm
19:48:28 <FaeFly> It's H2G2 to me :p
19:48:43 <imode> 2H2G.
19:48:44 <int-e> moonheart08: Where else would you find a falling giant sperm whale?!
19:48:52 <imode> 2hitchikers 2galaxy.
19:48:53 <int-e> (And a pot of petunias.)
19:49:04 <b_jonas> popular on this channel because it's full of crazy English humor, and we have a few English people here
19:49:19 <int-e> (Don't forget the pot of petunias. It's important, as will be revealed at the end.)
19:49:38 <int-e> (Unless you hate the fifth book, in which case it won't be revealed.)
19:51:45 <kspalaiologos> ah, the mythic english humour
19:52:14 <kspalaiologos> I've read English for around 9000h in my entire life
19:52:19 <kspalaiologos> and I still can't get the English humour
19:52:29 <imode> it's a subtle humor.
19:53:11 <kspalaiologos> I get subtle humour in my Muttersprache
19:53:19 <kspalaiologos> no idea about english or play on words though
19:53:43 <int-e> Yeah... Germans are renowned for their humor.
19:54:05 <kspalaiologos> I knew you're gonna say that
19:54:16 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:54:44 <int-e> It's a matter of misdirection.
19:55:03 <int-e> We Germans are renowned for our humor. :-P
19:55:48 <kspalaiologos> Nat�rlich
19:56:26 <int-e> Urin stinkt.
19:56:35 <int-e> Brilliant.
19:56:49 <int-e> (We even have puns!)
19:59:35 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: how about Brexit? that's an example for English humor that isn't subtle. do you understand that one?
20:01:41 <int-e> I'm still wondering what to make of "I've read English for around 9000h in my entire life" -- do you time yourself reading because it's a chore, an item to tick off an todo list?
20:03:21 <kspalaiologos> I've calculated it a few months ago
20:03:55 <kspalaiologos> b_jonas, well, it doesn't involve knowing british culture or word plays, so it's easy to comprehend for me
20:06:30 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: some chapters involve the queen, the lack of constitution, etc. I think those are part of british culture. at least it appears to be more part of british culture than whatever the humor is about wantonly calling into existence a bowl of petunias ten thousand miles over the surface of a planet is.
20:07:07 <kspalaiologos> I don't know british culture
20:07:37 <int-e> The pot of petunias is just Silly.
20:08:03 <int-e> So, honestly, is a lot of HHGttG
20:08:45 <int-e> But it manages to surprise which is a key element of humor.
20:08:51 <b_jonas> yes, but it's also eminently quotable, in the way that Monty Python is 
20:09:34 <int-e> The effect of a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster is like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon
20:09:39 <int-e> wrapped round a large gold brick.
20:09:45 <int-e> (pause for effect)
20:10:20 <kspalaiologos> btw
20:10:31 <kspalaiologos> how can I legally protect myself if I wanted to release a keygen to the public?
20:10:42 <kspalaiologos> is saying that I've made it just for serial key recovery
20:10:44 <kspalaiologos> enough?
20:10:54 <imode> anonymize yourself the best you can and then release it.
20:11:01 <imode> with that disclaimer. or just don't.
20:11:08 <kspalaiologos> and that you need to own Mathematica to use this program, otherwise it's illegal
20:11:19 <kspalaiologos> if you e.g. lost your serial key or it doesn't work
20:11:44 <int-e> I don't think a court would buy that excuse.
20:11:57 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: we don't give legal advice, and there are no lawyers here, only crazy people and harp tuners
20:11:58 <int-e> I'm also not sure how smart it is to ask this in a publicly logged channel.
20:12:11 <kspalaiologos> I'm just curious :p
20:12:23 <kspalaiologos> I saw people doing it
20:12:31 <int-e> Well, don't publish the keygen.
20:13:03 <kspalaiologos> I mean
20:13:07 <kspalaiologos> I'm not the pirate here :p
20:13:20 <kspalaiologos> but I'll protect my ass anyway
20:14:16 <kspalaiologos> on github there is a winrar keygen publicly available though
20:20:02 <int-e> kspalaiologos: https://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/stresser/ is full of examples that a related story for DoS services does not stop authorities from stepping in. (Rather than denial of service, the official purpose is to do stress tests on customer networks. However, the services don't verify whether the customer controls the target address...)
20:26:38 <kspalaiologos> c'mon, who didn't have fun with security in their lives
20:26:45 <kspalaiologos> I had a friend who exploited the store app to get freebies
20:30:55 <b_jonas> if you want actual legal advise, you will have to pay a lawyer
20:31:52 <kspalaiologos> no, I'm just curious
20:32:06 <kspalaiologos> to know other's opinions
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20:45:47 <b_jonas> biology question. are there spiders that can't make their own web, but that use the web made by a different type of spider for hunting?
20:49:15 <int-e> https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/29cap7/do_spiders_ever_steal_another_spiders_web/
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21:25:19 <int-e> helloerjan
21:26:05 <int-e> oerjan: Have we seen Violetta like this before? Or possibly somebody else...
21:26:39 <int-e> "I don't know" is an acceptable answer--don't waste your time checking archives.
21:34:53 <oerjan> OKAY I WON'T
21:35:30 <int-e> Well, not on my account.
21:35:39 * oerjan trying to check memory
21:37:03 <oerjan> i have this vague feeling that there's someone else.
21:38:17 <oerjan> but it could just be another comic interfering
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21:41:41 <int-e> We've had crazy potions before (I'm assuming it's a potion), but I'm really unsure about this particular effect. :)
22:05:13 <oerjan> <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: yes, some regular always prunes the quote database to be just shy of 1337 <-- no, they haven't done that, because it's never reached it before.
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22:12:23 <int-e> I mean, it *is* tempting to follow through with the threat.
22:12:39 <ais523> pick five quotes, delete the worst one
22:12:46 <ais523> unless they're all really good, in which case pick another five
22:12:48 <ais523> `5 quote
22:12:49 <HackEso> 1/2:232) <elliott> 320 quotes and still not a funny one yet! \ 230) <zzo38> Lymia: I put big spider in my bed already. So if you have no more left you do not have to worry about it anymore. You can just take a cold shower or hot acid or whatever you want to, instead. \ 1271) <coppro> `quote  <coppro> `quote  <coppro> `quote  <coppro> `quote  <int-e> ....lovely spam, oh wonderful spam... \ 1056) <kmc> Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product
22:13:07 <ais523> `2
22:13:08 <HackEso> 2/1:
22:13:37 <ais523> hmm, we only got four quotes, but 230 is the only actually good one there
22:13:46 <ais523> I'm going to delete the other three and see if anyone reverts
22:13:52 <ais523> `delquote 1271
22:13:54 <HackEso> ​*poof* <coppro> `quote  <coppro> `quote  <coppro> `quote  <coppro> `quote  <int-e> ....lovely spam, oh wonderful spam...
22:13:57 <ais523> `delquote 1056
22:13:59 <HackEso> ​*poof* <kmc> Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product?  <kmc> either that or it means "welcome" in finnish
22:14:05 <ais523> `delquote 232
22:14:10 <HackEso> ​*poof* <elliott> 320 quotes and still not a funny one yet!
22:14:51 <int-e> ais523: it's `n, not `2, isn't it... `2 is the one that takes a command and shows the 2nd page of its output.
22:15:01 <ais523> ah, OK
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22:15:07 <ais523> I thought it'd be something like that
22:15:20 <int-e> ``2 5 quote
22:15:21 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `2: not found
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22:15:32 <int-e> `` 2 5 quote
22:15:34 <HackEso> 2/2:g ca \ eory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D \ 936) <Sgeo> I was practically raised by Dilbert. \ 264) <Gregor> That's for $literals in the parser. It should maybe be atol too, but probably you shouldn't have nonterminals with more than two billion children.
22:15:55 <int-e> (that's abusive)
22:17:28 <ais523> that's kind-of useless as `5 quote isn't deterministic :-)
22:18:13 <int-e> Well, it did *something*
22:18:35 <int-e> And tbh, that was the goal.
22:18:50 <int-e> `5 '
22:18:52 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file \ /ha
22:19:00 <int-e> hah!
22:19:05 <int-e> `5 \'
22:19:06 <HackEso> 1/2:1092) <ais523> until you SPOON \ 119) <pikhq> INTERNET  <coppro> YAY  <cpressey> Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 236) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" \ 1326) <b_jonas> I don't care for the bf backend as long as it doesn't make the rest of ayac
22:19:12 <int-e> `n
22:19:12 <HackEso> 2/2:sue \ 815) [after a quote deletion session] <fungot> ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary....
22:20:04 <ais523> `quote 1326
22:20:06 <HackEso> 1326) <b_jonas> I don't care for the bf backend as long as it doesn't make the rest of ayacc harder to sue
22:20:19 <ais523> looks like the first line is getting cut off
22:20:50 <int-e> Oh, maybe some of the lengths have not been properly adjusted for HackEso's cloak yet.
22:22:14 <fizzie> I still haven't managed to get to it. :/
22:22:37 <int-e> is it here? https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/distort#l3
22:23:36 <int-e> > 512 - 2 - length "HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
22:23:38 <lambdabot>  448
22:24:16 <oerjan> <ais523> `2 <-- that's the wrong command. also there's a bug in the line breaking after HackEso got a cloak.
22:24:17 <int-e> > length "c harder to "
22:24:19 <lambdabot>  12
22:24:40 <fizzie> `` echo {a..z}{0..9} | tr -d ' ' | bin/distort | sed -e 's/^\(......\).*\(......\)$/\1\2/'
22:24:41 <HackEso> a0a1a24w5w6w \ 7w8w9xz7z8z9
22:24:42 <int-e> so 447 or 448.
22:24:45 <oerjan> < <-- heresy!
22:24:54 <oerjan> argh
22:24:59 <fizzie> Hmm, that seems to have been split correctly. Odd.
22:25:11 <fizzie> Oh, right, because it's a balanced split.
22:25:18 <int-e> fizzie: you're not testing the right thing
22:25:36 <oerjan> i managed to select and paste simultaneously
22:25:49 <fizzie> int-e: Why? 
22:26:27 <oerjan> <ais523> I'm going to delete the other three and see if anyone reverts <-- heresy!
22:26:43 <int-e> `` perl -e 'print"x"x459' #this is getting truncated
22:26:44 <HackEso> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
22:26:54 <int-e> after 447 x characters.
22:27:09 <ais523> oerjan: fizzie: opinions on relaxing the signup procedures a little? the spambots have given up, but I'm not sure if they'd start again if they saw a relaxation
22:27:16 <int-e> which sport seems to produce lines of length 459?
22:28:02 <int-e> s/which/while/
22:28:19 <fizzie> int-e: Well, right, but if it wasn't doing that funky balanced split the first test would've been testing a line of whatever maximum length distort uses.
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22:29:49 <int-e> `` sed -i 3s/459/447/ bin/sport
22:29:50 <HackEso> bin/sport//cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" >tmp/spout.raw; distort tmp/spout.raw | spore "${1-1}"
22:30:14 <int-e> ah
22:30:21 <int-e> `` sed -i 3s/459/447/ bin/distort
22:30:24 <HackEso> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 447 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \   data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p<s): \   lw = N-mw-2-len(`i`) \   print data[p:p+lw] \   i+=1 \   p+=lw
22:30:42 <int-e> (the first one didn't make any change)
22:30:52 <int-e> `5 \'
22:30:54 <HackEso> 1/2:890) <ais523> in Smalltalk, as in Feather, in order to do I/O, you must first create the universe  <Sgeo> ais523, it seems quite capable of I/O... GUI is a form of I/O  <ais523> Sgeo: yeah exactly  <ais523> where does the GUI come from?  <ais523> it's written in Smalltalk, clearly  <ais523> and how does the GUI do its I/O?  <ais523> if you think about the issue for too long, you end up inventing Feather \ 873) <fungot> ais523: intercal-72
22:31:01 <int-e> `n
22:31:02 <HackEso> 2/2:c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions \ 880) <fizzie> What I learned on the Prolog course is that it's a good language if you need a thing that can say "No" a lot. \ 747) <itidus21> you are like the linux torvalds of quiz engines \ 408) <Vorpal> ais523, how are we supposed to guess before you tell us unless you give us more hints?
22:31:14 <int-e> `quote 873
22:31:14 <HackEso> 873) <fungot> ais523: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions
22:31:25 <int-e> that looks better
22:32:05 <int-e> I don't know whether 447 or 448 is right, so I'm going with 447.
22:32:09 <fizzie> int-e: Thing is, the N in there isn't the maximum length of the line it uses.
22:32:45 <int-e> it surely looks like that is what it's intended to be
22:32:56 <int-e> given all the compensation on line 13
22:33:07 <fizzie> Sure, but it's not.
22:33:11 <fizzie> `` echo {a..z}{a..z} | tr -d ' ' | cut -c 1-886 | bin/distort | sed -e 's/^\(......\).*\(......\)$/\1..\2/'
22:33:12 <HackEso> aaabac..kilimi \ nioipi..qyqzra
22:33:16 <fizzie> `` echo {a..z}{a..z} | tr -d ' ' | cut -c 1-888 | bin/distort | sed -e 's/^\(......\).*\(......\)$/\1..\2/'
22:33:17 <HackEso> aaabac..kilimi \ nioipi..qyqzra \ rb
22:33:40 <fizzie> 886 characters (2*443) gets split to two lines; 888 (2*444) gets split to three lines.
22:34:05 <fizzie> If it was using (now) a line length of 447, it would accept a line of 894 characters and split it to two.
22:34:42 <int-e> I think there's just an off-by-one error in there
22:34:52 <oerjan> fizzie: distort sets off space for a line number prefix
22:35:05 <int-e> line 13, the -2 should be -3 to account for /, ) and an extra space.
22:35:26 <oerjan> `url bin/distort
22:35:27 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/distort
22:36:01 <int-e> it does account for the width of the current line number, and of the total line numbers.
22:36:03 <fizzie> Oh, it does that as well? So complicated.
22:36:36 <int-e> I should write "it does seem to account"
22:37:02 <int-e> because I'm not really sure what happens on line 9.
22:38:04 <fizzie> Well, it's good enough for now.
22:38:45 <int-e> is there anything else that needs to know about the maximum message length...
22:39:46 <fizzie> The bot itself, arguably. Although I'm not sure how much that truncation matters.
22:40:05 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/fizzie/hackbot/src/tip/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd#lines-64
22:40:16 <fizzie> Not that you could edit that from the inside.
22:41:57 <fizzie> I guess it does matter in the sense that it prevents incomplete utf-8 sequences in utf-8 text that has not been passed through distort.
22:42:29 <int-e> 448 is probably the right value there.
22:43:12 <esowiki> [[Acyclic Tag]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66796 * Ais523 * (+14796) new language!
22:43:30 <oerjan> int-e: mw is the width of the literal for the number of lines.
22:43:36 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66797&oldid=66682 * Ais523 * (+18) /* A */ +[[Acyclic Tag]]
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22:43:57 <esowiki> [[User:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66798&oldid=59712 * Ais523 * (+17) +[[Acyclic Tag]]
22:44:25 <fizzie> `perl-e printf "x"x449 . "ä";
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22:44:33 <fizzie> `perl-e printf "x"x448 . "ä";
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22:44:38 <oerjan> line 8 makes an approximation that is sometimes 1 too low, and line 9 checks if it is.
22:44:41 <int-e> oerjan: Yeah. And line 9 actually does some geometric series stuff to compute how many digits in total we'll save because we start counting in single digit numbers.
22:45:08 <fizzie> `perl-e printf "x"x447 . "ä"; # just one more try
22:45:08 <HackEso> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
22:45:12 <int-e> fizzie: Oh, darn, I had already verified that this got cut off and 447, not 448 chracters.
22:45:15 <ais523> you know how we normally use cyclic tag to prove queue-based systems TC? sometimes it turns out to be too hard to impl in a particularly esoteric language, so I'm looking even simpler
22:45:39 <fizzie> int-e: Should distort then be 446, and truncate 447? 
22:45:50 <ais523> I've probably spent over a week on Acyclic Tag
22:46:28 <fizzie> (Just wondering, because previously we had distort at 459 and truncate at 460.)
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22:46:44 <ais523> the big improvement is that you don't have to be able to implement the wrapping from end to start of the table of productions
22:47:15 <oerjan> <int-e> line 13, the -2 should be -3 to account for /, ) and an extra space. <-- it's just /, : and no extra space
22:48:22 <int-e> oerjan: aha.
22:48:45 <int-e> I got confused by stuff like 1/2:205)
22:49:43 <int-e> `` perl -e 'printf "x"x886' | sport
22:49:44 <HackEso> 1/2:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
22:49:47 <int-e> `n
22:49:48 <HackEso> 2/2:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
22:50:07 <int-e> It's all there :)
22:51:01 <int-e> `` perl -e 'printf "x"x887' | distory | wc
22:51:02 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: distory: command not found \       0       0       0
22:51:07 <int-e> `` perl -e 'printf "x"x887' | distort | wc
22:51:08 <HackEso> ​      3       3     890
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22:59:17 <oerjan> iirc line 9 basically works by calculating the maximal data length that could fit with that mw, and seeing if it's too small.
22:59:42 <int-e> line 9 sums a geometric series
23:00:25 <int-e> To ensure that mw really is the maximum width, and not accidently too large by 1.
23:01:12 <oerjan> surely it's too small by 1. it's adding a boolean, after all.
23:02:00 <int-e> right
23:03:40 <oerjan> at least i had the foresight to make N a named variable for these occasions :P
23:05:53 <int-e> So the computation computes the length of the string that we can accomodate in 10^mw - 1 lines of output, where mw is the tentative value computed on line 8. If the string is longer than that, we increase mw by 1.
23:06:42 <int-e> Writing it as  ((N-2)-2*mw)*(10**mw-1) + (10**mw-1)/9 - mw  makes it somewhat easier to digest (for me at least).
23:08:59 <int-e> ((N-2)-2*mw)*(10**mw-1) is how many characters we can accomodate if all numbers 1..10^mw-1 are mw characters wide; (10**mw-1)/9 - mw sums (10**i-1)/9 - 1 for i = 1..mw, which is the number of extra characters that we gain because some numbers are shorter than mw digits.
23:10:26 <int-e> oerjan: You wrote this, apparently :)
23:10:49 <oerjan> yes. doesn't mean i recall exactly how i deduced the formula, but that sounds about right.
23:11:56 <oerjan> `hurl bin/distort
23:11:57 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/distort
23:15:56 <int-e> `? cube
23:15:57 <HackEso> Cubes come in all sizes, colors, and materials, but only one shape.
23:16:27 <imode> I can't argue with that.
23:17:07 <int-e> `grwp companion
23:17:08 <HackEso> companion cube:There's cake inside it. Tear it apart, rip open your companion, and extract the delicious, delicious cake... \ mpanion cube:Aperture Science has created a talking cube - we call it the mpanion cube, because it's the opposite of the mute companion cube.
23:18:41 <ais523> an mpanion cube would be a time-reversed companion cube, wouldn't it?
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