< 1572912287 84273 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
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< 1572912539 316944 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1572912877 819304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell imode assuming i understand what you mean by 01[], it is TC as you can encode cyclic tag in it: 100 = false, 1010 = true, 1010 [][bits] -> bits, 100 [][bits] -> nothing. [ [][...] ... [][...] ] loops through a list of productions.
< 1572912877 918998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
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< 1572913314 188205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh 3-echo tag
< 1572913336 325309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain occasionally tries to think about 2-echo tag without really getting anywhere
< 1572913356 385150 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1572913361 95705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-112.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1572914444 388778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i conclude that the haskell/esolangs overlap remains large https://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/dkxsqi/haskell_on_the_jvm_frege_vs_eta/
< 1572914466 844203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that question was posted in the wrong subreddit - and still got sensible answers)
< 1572914510 446413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or reddit is putting things in the wrong place. i _did_ see some strange behavior in a thread i read yesterday.
< 1572914521 349341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not quite out-of-subreddit strange
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< 1572915012 817540 :hppavilion[2]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1572915227 975829 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:4483:6b9d:b95:a54b QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1572917176 415392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, the us has switched off daylight savings time too. i was enjoying reading schlock mercenary an hour earlier!
< 1572917210 187043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time zone is the author at?
< 1572917219 644455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather what state and time zone.
< 1572917247 840077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there are multiple authors.
< 1572917260 400768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is, CA might switch to year-round DST.
< 1572917475 953442 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1572917541 292552 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1572917547 972488 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1572917570 442906 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1572917733 565824 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :EU's planning to stop adjusting clocks from 2021 onwards, but each member state gets to decide whether they want to stick with the summer or the winter mode.
< 1572917755 312380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems fine.
< 1572917760 661707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And with luck, Brexit's still unsolved at that point and UK will follow.)
< 1572917976 539378 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1572920604 881360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W (A)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66961 5* 03A 5* (+668) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} [[w]] is a function-based [http://wren.io/ esoteric programming language] based on [http://wren.io/ wren]. It implicitly provides a lot of values that allows the..."
> 1572920705 112235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W (A)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66962&oldid=66961 5* 03A 5* (+178) 10
> 1572920858 125251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W (A)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66963&oldid=66962 5* 03A 5* (+249) 10/* An example */
> 1572921134 142719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W (A)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66964&oldid=66963 5* 03A 5* (+283) 10
> 1572921312 647309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 bottles of beer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66965&oldid=66686 5* 03A 5* (+100) 10/* External resources */
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< 1572923622 388628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
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< 1572932899 137066 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what are the requirements for a language to write a quine in it
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< 1572936754 572327 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: this is enough, IMHO: https://esolangs.org/wiki/HQ9+
< 1572936797 464543 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously, but you can write quines in languages that do not have a quine command
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< 1572941928 515162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the "just don't mask the ring buffer indices" model seems pretty appealing now.
< 1572941955 82082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need your buffer size to be a power of 2. Is there any other downside?
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< 1572951930 772417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to inject Nat into an infinite algebraic type possibly mutually recursive with several other types like this one (but not necessarily all of them infinite)
< 1572951979 924192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be always possible but I don’t see how to formulate this thing in the manner it would have an obvious proof
< 1572952303 879842 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think injecting Nat into t means precisely the following: there are tz :: t, ts :: t → t and tfoldNat :: u → (u → u) → t → u such that ∀z' s'. foldNat z' s' == tfoldNat z' s' . foldNat tz ts
< 1572952354 185424 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the consequence of the latter suffices: id == tfoldNat z s . foldNat tz ts
< 1572952375 208882 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now hopefully it’s clearer
< 1572952558 190912 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tz and ts x would always be compositions of several constructors, the latter also having one occurrence of x. Still, the picture isn’t clear to me at all
< 1572953055 200169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm would we always be able to “contract” the definition of that type so that other types aren’t mentioned in it after that?.. The simple case { data E = Z | Se O; data O = So E } is for example easy: { data E = Z | SeSo E } or { data O = SoZ | SoSe O }
< 1572953122 737158 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I miss knowledge of a framework
< 1572953279 25318 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky case: { data A = A N; data N = Z | S N } — now we can’t return to A and the naive approach would result in an infinite definition { data A = AZ | ASZ | ASSZ | … }
< 1572953378 835517 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so though we can’t always contract a definition naively, maybe we can always find a type with a definition which contracts?.. E. g. that’s N in this example
< 1572953480 123141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope: { data A M; data M = Z | S A M }, now they *both* don’t contract in a naive fashion
< 1572953631 258941 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may see that’s indeed a tricky situation. Okay I don’t need to contract definitions, I need `z` and `s` and a glimpse of `fold` (relating to GMMs, I don’t really need the last one, just a partial destructor `t → 1 + (1 + t)`, the first `1 +` is for values of `t` which aren’t injected Nats)
< 1572953810 349670 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :even simpler: `z` and `s` a compositions of constructors, as hypothesized above. I’m sure that’s always possible, and in this case they would have all the remaining needed properties
> 1572958440 753495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66966 5* 03A 5* (+2540) 10Created page with "== Example programs == <pre> "This is a language that I invented in early 2012  to be a simple golfing language. By this, I mean  that there is very little to no operator over..."
< 1572958518 653769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1572958542 502329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66967&oldid=66966 5* 03A 5* (+273) 10
> 1572958884 775082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66968&oldid=66967 5* 03A 5* (+742) 10
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> 1572961440 995627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66969&oldid=66968 5* 03A 5* (+16) 10
> 1572961894 55199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66970&oldid=66969 5* 03A 5* (-57) 10
< 1572962075 687439 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]01$ can be reduced to boolfuck.
> 1572962135 60309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66971&oldid=66970 5* 03A 5* (-14) 10/* Factorial */
> 1572962244 254774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66972&oldid=66971 5* 03A 5* (+191) 10
> 1572964239 969127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66973&oldid=66972 5* 03A 5* (-5) 10/* Truth-machine */
> 1572964262 497178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66974&oldid=66973 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10/* Documentation */
< 1572964397 35753 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1572964856 339957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66975&oldid=66974 5* 03A 5* (+931) 10/* GCD of two numbers */
> 1572966480 670882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Basis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66976&oldid=66975 5* 03A 5* (+68) 10
< 1572967506 900816 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can eliminate nonconstructivle types and constructors with arguments of those types and be left with at least one type having a nullary constructor
< 1572967682 215413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there are no guarantees this constructor is used in infinitely many values, and I seem to finally get what I should have done: there are infinitely many values, and only a finite amount of nullary constructors. At least one of them should occur in infinitely many values, pick that one
< 1572968664 345927 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no, we don’t need a single constructor, we need an inhabited type with a constructor “eventually taking” an argument of that type, yes
< 1572968737 35383 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1572968839 700610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t like proof by contradiction but suppose none of inhabiter types has one. I think that should imply there are only a finite set of values overall
< 1572969002 432879 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/inhabiter/inhabited; every value of type t should not have values of type t inside so each value can only be a |type count| levels deep, yes, and there are only so many constructors so we get a finite set of values
< 1572969021 374764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do I prove that without using contradiction
< 1572969051 399192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I flooded the channel, sorry :/
< 1572969106 872235 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone tried typeclasses.com?
< 1572969393 504683 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :lf94: me not; is there something which I could see without paying? (I’m lazy to register to get to know that by myself)
< 1572969421 196019 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is
< 1572969424 885905 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh
< 1572969433 855028 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://typeclasses.com/profunctors
< 1572969763 713990 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :lf94: that may be useful!
< 1572969780 633690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don’t know profunctors yet too
< 1572969803 987588 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Profunctors are bifunctors that are contravariant in their first type argument and covariant in their second one.” → ah okay now I know
< 1572970016 145771 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :lf94: the canonical example would be (->), it’s covariant in the result type and contravatiant in argument type; the function type is very useful to visualize co/contravariant type arguments in general; at least for me: they can be “like function arguments” and “go somewhere”, or they can be “like function results” and “come from somewhere” (and also there can be these that come and go—these are “invariant” in the
< 1572970016 253797 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : terminology of e. g. C#, these are somewhat bad as they don’t play nicely with subtyping in languages with subtyping like mentioned C#)
< 1572970356 407802 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terms "covariant" and "contravariant" cannot be memorized for some reason.
< 1572970364 831096 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't memorize what these actually mean
< 1572970384 21370 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you could explain what these mean in some plain english, I'd greatly appreciate it
< 1572970435 47268 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e. g. if you are designing API for some collections, it could be wise to tear collection interfaces into halves with one half being covariant in element type and containing only get-like operations (perfect to implement by immutable collections) and the other half containing only set-like operations and being contravariant in the element type; a mutable collection would implement both parts. Now these two interfaces could be used separa
< 1572970435 181395 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :tely and benefit from argument subtyping one way or the other)
< 1572970451 77461 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :lf94: I can try, yeah
< 1572970579 946876 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :covariant means it behaves like (co-) a plain value: function result is a normal value; contravariant means it behaves in the opposite way (contra-): function argument is in some way an “antivalue”, a hole waiting to be filled, before we could get the result; that’s not all
< 1572970654 972583 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know if there is any special sense in “-variant” here, maybe theory category guys made it up independently, but they could have borrowed it from linear algebra
< 1572970735 32909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, tensor arguments/indices can be covariant and contravariant, which means if the thing changes (“varies”?) like or unlike basis vectors when changing the basis
< 1572970792 236075 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s about “-variant” part, I’m almost sure it’s related that way though “-variant” part is plain latin
< 1572970803 540359 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it pretends to be
< 1572970816 927207 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :co- means plain?...
< 1572970835 815039 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that should be accompanied by many examples but I don’t know which would be nice
< 1572970847 726641 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and -1?
< 1572970852 285103 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lf94> co- means plain?... => AFAIR it’s more like “with”
< 1572970897 812019 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I’d say these are more like automorphism/antiautomorphism distinction than 1/−1, but the last pair may be illustrative too
< 1572971008 912101 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :contra- changes arrow directions just like antiautomorphism. Though I don’t know why I picked auto-, any kind of morphisms suffices
< 1572971032 396058 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anti(something)morphism changes operands, not arrows)
< 1572971054 154377 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :let’s pretend I didn’t confuse you with morphisms
< 1572971103 394125 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully someone more experienced in explaining in a clear way will come
< 1572971109 777666 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1572971268 201417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can try to label them `in` and `out` as C# syntax does
< 1572971291 587815 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in for contravariant, “argument-like”, and out for covariant, “result-like”
< 1572971325 616944 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don’t confuse “in”-variant with invariant, there were cases :)
< 1572971357 328833 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are no invariant functor arguments in Haskell
< 1572971378 572818 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are either co- or contra- or that’s not a functor in that argument
< 1572972364 201136 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you talk about morphisms, it helps I think
< 1572972748 391161 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we have a category whose objects are categories themselves, morphisms C → D are functors covariant in C and morphisms C^op → D are functors contravariant in C; where C^op is the opposite category to C: it has all its objects but every morphism reversed
< 1572973065 732644 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
> 1572973371 367027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Full Stack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66977 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+3264) 10Created page with "Full Stack is an esolang created by [[User:Challenger5]] and inspired by <code>///</code>. Its Turing completeness is not known.  Before we define Full Stack, however, we must..."
> 1572973414 239852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Challenger514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66978&oldid=66938 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+84) 10
< 1572975582 533739 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-uowyrinzwjvslrsi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572975826 323297 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572976241 761227 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1572976784 764891 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572976871 588810 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1572976921 888711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572978806 933715 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572978890 746561 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 NICK :ais523
< 1572978893 684332 :ais523!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1572978893 748006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
< 1572978906 180340 :ais523!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 NICK :ais523_
< 1572981488 399947 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1572981488 536827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
< 1572981494 467777 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1572981499 336418 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1572981588 950554 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> my brain occasionally tries to think about 2-echo tag without really getting anywhere ← I think that 2-Echo Tag is still more likely than 50:50 to be Turing-complete, but would no longer be surprised if it were Turing-incomplete; there are some qualitative differences to 3-Echo Tag
< 1572981600 482750 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1572981815 16320 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1572981985 928718 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> "The Program Is Mostly Ignored" -- like in the pear tree? ← actually, in A Pear Tree, the entire program is always parsed; it's just commonplace to put much of it in a comment
< 1572982018 34736 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting factor in the language is that you can use cues to specify where in the program to start parsing, but the parser wraps around the end of the program and finishes where it started
< 1572982083 942712 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1572982191 544131 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572982442 898256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1572982827 697053 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1572983154 927167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Program Is Mostly Ignored14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66979&oldid=66955 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+18) 10/* When the blockchain has a blue block */ prettier table
< 1572983460 338833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572983700 791130 :impomatic!56b97c95@host86-185-124-149.range86-185.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572983708 572891 :impomatic!56b97c95@host86-185-124-149.range86-185.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1572983729 810315 :impomatic!56b97c95@host86-185-124-149.range86-185.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any Esoteric stuff on Yahoo groups which needs archiving before they remove groups?
< 1572983872 57952 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the esoteric mailing lists or newsgroups that I know of were on Yahoo
< 1572984027 49757 :impomatic!56b97c95@host86-185-124-149.range86-185.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. I've been downloading messages for the programming game groups (robowar, crobots, etc) and thought I'd check :-)
< 1572984044 597004 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are things going in the programming games community, btw?
< 1572984158 252165 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today. => they say this often to me; I think there’s an inherent and indescribable sadness in the situation so I drew this: https://i.postimg.cc/BnBkw5Vt/mr-postman.png
< 1572984158 376032 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I planned to add dialogue but this ended up quite self-explanatory
< 1572984198 883474 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn uncolorized region
< 1572984307 513408 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :look here instead: https://i.postimg.cc/Wz9tnJcy/mr-postman.png
< 1572984402 383402 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572984838 610139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572984960 719204 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572984974 27116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: oh yeah, good thinking. I've got one of Yahoo's nice false assurance email about how Yahoo groups is totally not going away
< 1572984982 587810 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they did send an email
< 1572985060 791212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this will have less impact than gmane, google plus, or geocities though.
< 1572985092 71042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's an interesting pattern there. If I see an online service whose name starts with g, should I suspect that it won't last long even if it's not by google?
< 1572985123 449081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no!
< 1572985137 827573 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked among my links for stuff starting with "g"
< 1572985141 993462 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project Gutenbert
< 1572985252 294123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://directory.fsf.org/ is at least branded "FSF" now more prominently than "GNU"
< 1572985299 894224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet read that "Evolution of Yahoo Groups" email, but I got one as well.
< 1572985332 391099 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I only skimmed it too
< 1572985358 358671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't bother because all the mailing lists hosted there that I'm on are defunct 
< 1572985584 409807 :impomatic!56b97c95@host86-185-124-149.range86-185.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a little slow at the moment. What tends to happen is the level in a game quickly escalates so that it's pretty difficult for anyone new to get involved :-(
< 1572986735 606475 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572987600 786804 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1572987701 968295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572987929 783869 :ais523_!93bcc3cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.204 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1572987999 52009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> so, what are the requirements for a language to write a quine in it <-- see https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Smjg for pervious discussion that i keep linking
< 1572988014 150787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw the typo and refused to correct
< 1572988035 529479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah, I was wrong about Pear Tree, I misremembered how it worked
< 1572988160 250034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell imode actually, what i said is more or less 10 = true, 0 = false and a slighly different halting condition on BCT than usual, which i'm pretty sure is still TC.
< 1572988160 329633 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1572988395 5785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monologue
< 1572988396 670534 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :monologue? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1572989435 416226 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1572989668 483571 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: Haskell: BlockArguments: finally!
< 1572989844 126589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle finally
< 1572989844 381116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception finally :: IO a -> IO b -> IO a
< 1572989844 417322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base finally :: IO a -> IO b -> IO a
< 1572989844 417366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Directory.Internal.Prelude finally :: () => IO a -> IO b -> IO a
< 1572989860 701428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a good use for it
< 1572989881 393148 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572989885 640140 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1572991383 793201 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm BTW does hoogle search GHC language extensions?:
< 1572991388 353750 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle BlockArguments
< 1572991388 669951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH BlockArguments :: Extension
< 1572991388 718571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.LanguageExtensions BlockArguments :: Extension
< 1572991388 718611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.Extension BlockArguments :: KnownExtension
< 1572991407 433830 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I expected but neat
< 1572991449 466298 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouija: bye
< 1572991561 742042 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572991684 536943 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it was important that all the source code were retained, so that A Pear Tree could be used to write programs that detected edits to themselves and figured out what part was missing
< 1572991706 899734 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.44.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1572991716 506418 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how useful that capability is, but a) this is #esoteric so it doesn't matter, b) it comes in handy on CGCC on occasion
< 1572992234 172977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1572992467 143229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like you said, you can still make most of the code ignored as a comment when your program wants that
< 1572993645 963188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hfs
< 1572993647 52513 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottomless pits mark the surface.
< 1572993683 961990 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, dramatic, it's a pity you can't use commands to continue the text adventure
< 1572993696 870405 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572993982 177056 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` ( hg log -T "{desc}\n" -r 7960; hg cat -r 7960 wisdom/hfs ) | sed s/o/о/ # and the command that created it is funny too
< 1572993983 567010 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​<zzо38> ` le/rn "hfs/`hfs`" # Maybe this way better? \ 04Yоu have discovered an eerie cavern. The air aboe the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
< 1572993994 880438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it was in bin before it was moved to wisdom
< 1572994017 470305 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quite a few typos in that version
< 1572994024 168378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they got fixed in later revisions
< 1572994034 185513 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if they were intentional
< 1572994041 884074 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aboe" looks like the sort of word that belongs in poetic English
< 1572994061 580707 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are a few interesting words from poetic English, like "ere" which is just too good not to use; it means "before")
< 1572994077 772199 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strangely, it isn't used anywhere but poetry and literature despite being such a good word)
< 1572994107 216396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{desc}\n" -r 7961 | sed s/oa/оа/
< 1572994108 257825 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​<oerjan> rm bin/hfs
< 1572994212 599985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-40.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bin/hfs was apparently created by moon__
< 1572994920 294446 :ais523_!93bcc3cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.203 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1572995088 925487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Noogleburt 5*  10New user account
< 1572995090 875430 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1572995290 453321 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-057-075-096.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1572995441 749557 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572995498 927658 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-057-075-096.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1572996802 434111 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1572996826 645653 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric