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01:14:00 <imode> zzo38: I'd love to know what that is.
01:14:11 <imode> unless I was the one that said it..
01:16:46 <b_jonas> a spood is like a snoot but faster
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02:02:33 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68688&oldid=68686 * JonoCode9374 * (+67) Changed A's blurb about why Keta exists fo
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05:05:59 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arkup-nemesis is mediawiki's default diff. He twice punned without noticing it.
05:06:16 <HackEso> HackEso is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike HackEgo.
05:06:32 <HackEso> moony is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moon moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain.
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05:50:47 <zzo38> How to disable CSS transitions in Firefox?
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06:16:13 <zzo38> Yes, I can do that, but I want to do it globally
06:42:25 <zzo38> Now I implemented the "fillspecial" command in TeXnicard, which can be used to draw translucent shapes on the card. (Other effects may be possible in future, but so far the only implemented effect is the /Opacity effect.)
06:45:09 <zzo38> What is the best way in a C program to send data to an external program and then read the result? I know a few ways, but what is a good way?
06:45:21 <zzo38> (Specifically, a C program on Linux)
06:48:04 <zzo38> What newsgroups/IRC can I see if someone else will be interested in my TeXnicard program?
06:50:49 <zzo38> Why in rogue you cannot strike an opponent standing in a doorway by a diagonal move?
07:16:16 <kingoffrance> i suppose in theory the door would be in the way, but that could go either way
07:16:30 <kingoffrance> and there is no way to query "which way is the door swinging" to my knowledge
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09:22:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: write data to a regular file, popen program for reading and pass the regular file to it as an argument or redirect
09:23:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think the doorway is implicitly in a narrow corridor that you can only exit straight because it doesn't extend to the corner of its square
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10:52:45 <esowiki> [[User:CarlosLuna]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68689&oldid=66112 * CarlosLuna * (+5499) Adding my /// contributions
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13:35:26 <b_jonas> fungot, here are some arrows: ←↑→↓↔↕↤↥↦↧↨⇐⇒⇔
13:35:26 <fungot> b_jonas: trolls are described as rubbery: they keep bouncing back.
13:35:53 <fizzie> fungot: I'm pretty sure you just quoted that verbatim. Try to mix it up, will you?
13:35:53 <fungot> fizzie: eyes of the days of morgoth elves and men usurped the sunlight. then with a wand of polymorph. jackal's heart must never be eaten, for the service he had fled the responsibilities of ruling all that was about all they were, i was going to happen to you, don't step on a diet of metals. they are friendly. ( the immortals, by edith hamilton)
13:36:22 <fizzie> Sounds like a weird book.
13:37:24 <int-e> does unicode have darts?
13:37:46 <HackEso> [U+100D8 LINEAR B IDEOGRAM B254 DART]
13:38:01 <fizzie> `unicode BOW AND ARROW
13:38:07 <HackEso> U+1F3F9 BOW AND ARROW \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8f b9 UTF-16BE: d83cdff9 Decimal: 🏹 \ 🏹 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
13:38:08 <b_jonas> int-e: it has so many arrows (a lot, seriously) that some of them are probably darts
13:38:24 <int-e> b_jonas: But that's the only "dart" I found.
13:38:51 <fizzie> I don't have a bow-and-arrow character, apparently. :/
13:39:35 <b_jonas> int-e: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-10-22.html#lX
13:39:44 <int-e> Works in firefox... it's one of the abominable colored glyphs.
13:40:15 <int-e> b_jonas: Still no dart.
13:40:27 <fizzie> Looking at gucharmap, I have a really spotty coverage of Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs.
13:41:10 <HackEso> [U+4236 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4236] [U+93E2 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-93E2] [U+9556 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9556]
13:41:30 <b_jonas> fizzie: do you have oren's font loaded?
13:41:46 <HackEso> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
13:41:47 <int-e> Somehow, gucharmap's "match whole word" thinks "dart," is a word.
13:42:36 <fizzie> "TWO SPEECH BUBBLES = chat" "THREE SPEECH BUBBLES = conference"
13:42:48 <int-e> (so "dart" does not find those CJK symbols that have "dart," in their description.)
13:43:03 <int-e> FOUR SPEECH BUBBLES = tower of babel?
13:43:31 <int-e> FIVE SPEECH BUBBLES = social media
13:44:10 <HackEso> [U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND] [U+1F5E0 STOCK CHART] [U+1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND] [U+1F4CA BAR CHART]
13:44:20 <fizzie> Heh, "U+1F573 HOLE = portable hole".
13:44:30 <fizzie> I guess it's the character rather than the hole that's portable.
13:44:41 <int-e> fizzie: Bonus points if it's black.
13:45:14 <int-e> Or otherwise bottomless.
13:46:56 <int-e> Is there a Linear B brainfuck clone? I'd imagine that could look kind of cute, especially if you assign several symbols to each operation.
13:47:26 <b_jonas> int-e: do you mean a Learn B trivial brainfuck substitution?
13:47:42 <int-e> b_jonas: Obviously.
13:47:58 <b_jonas> there's probably a generic one that assigns a brainfuck command to a lot of unicode characters
13:48:31 <int-e> Hmm, right, there could be something close to a union-of-all-brainfuck-substitutions.
13:48:39 <int-e> ("close" because there's bound to be overlap)
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15:31:42 <HackEso> [U+F51F - No such unicode character name in database]
15:33:21 <int-e> b_jonas: I missed that you rendered "Linear" as "Learn" earlier... was that an accident?
15:34:03 <b_jonas> int-e: oh... that was an accident
15:34:08 <b_jonas> I don't know why I typed that
15:34:17 <b_jonas> probably "Learn" is more in my hands than "Linear"
15:35:17 <b_jonas> like, yesterday I couldn't type "spiny" first try like ten times, because I kept typing it as "spony" and having to backspace
15:35:27 <b_jonas> because "pony" is a word but "piny" is not
15:38:34 <int-e> Well, brains are weird.
15:43:14 <esowiki> [[Burlesque]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68690&oldid=45225 * B jonas * (+30) https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-12-31.html#lyg "also I used it at work [...] my supervisor was shocked"
15:44:16 <b_jonas> fungot, when does GDQ start?
15:44:16 <fungot> b_jonas: they say that some shopkeepers recognize gems but they are quite difficult to grasp. blood-drinking bestiality, voracious appetites, hunger in search of prey, but, instead of teeth; it is saint peter's holy day. if that event takes place, perhaps it was only a humanoid creature can be a now dry little watercourse. bilbo was a time xans would never scratch your boots.
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16:18:31 <fizzie> Handy, they've added a "detected as X" note to the "all times are converted to your local time" message in the schedule page.
16:19:10 <fizzie> Now if they could only this time around shade the blocks in the past, highlight the currently running one, put a red line where we're now, or *something* like that.
16:27:58 <b_jonas> fizzie: is that about the GDQ schedule?
16:34:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: but GDQ is sponsored by twitch, so they must go for webpages that are so heavy with client-side scripts that they're impossible to load in anything but a modern computer, even though other pages can show better quality videos easily on the same computer
16:35:01 <b_jonas> it wouldn't be twitch-like otherwise
16:35:18 <b_jonas> a simple server-side addition of a red line marking the current time wouldn't cut it
16:35:28 <b_jonas> it has to load a huge javascript library
16:36:51 <b_jonas> also, why don't the bash builtins pushd and popd have a single-letter switch to quiet their normal output?
16:38:04 <kspalaiologos> https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/51423495#51423495
16:38:05 <fizzie> The client-side local time conversion is pretty light. I mean, discounting jQuery.
16:38:21 <kspalaiologos> looks like our evil villain was there all the time :p
16:39:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: they have to add more stuff to that schedule page then
16:39:50 <b_jonas> dunno, mouseover popups to show the donation choices
16:40:51 <b_jonas> or just no functionality, just loading and constructing the page content in javascript
16:41:47 <fizzie> Oh, is Twitch owned by Amazon? I didn't know that.
16:41:59 <b_jonas> fizzie: dunno but that seems likely
16:42:38 <fizzie> I was seeing all these "Subscribed with Twitch Prime" things, and thought they'd just copied the name, but apparently it's actually an Amazon subsidiary.
16:43:37 <b_jonas> fizzie: the Twitch Prime thing means that if you subscribe for Amazon Prime and pair your Amazon account with the Twitch account, you get some "free" stuff on Twitch
16:43:49 <b_jonas> twitch advertises that very agressively
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17:10:13 <b_jonas> `8-ball I can't find my gloves. Should I unpack the mess from the shelf where they're supposed to be?
17:17:38 <b_jonas> 8-ball: you're right, they were there. I found three and a half pairs
17:18:22 <b_jonas> well sure, if you want, implement it in Java
17:30:12 <b_jonas> if you like Java then sure, it's probably fine for this purpose
17:30:37 <b_jonas> I guess it's better than implementing an URL shortener in brainfuck
17:30:41 <HackEso> Concentrate and ask again.
17:31:00 <b_jonas> Java is a much better choice than brainfuck for this
17:31:15 <b_jonas> and we have a bot implemented in befunge
17:31:47 <b_jonas> and mroman mentioned that he should implement blsqbot in blsq
17:32:11 <b_jonas> and NotJack implemented a J evaluator bot in J
17:32:37 <kspalaiologos> . o O (soon: and kspalaiologos implemented a Brainfuck bot in Brainfuck)
17:32:47 <b_jonas> heck, I implemented my IRC bots in ruby 1.8, that's actually a worse choice than Java too
17:33:39 <b_jonas> it seemed like a good idea at the time
17:34:22 <b_jonas> (actually back then they were started in ruby 1.6, but I ported them to 1.8 later)
17:34:44 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: the problem with a brainfuck bot in brainfuck is that a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck might be slow
17:35:10 <b_jonas> you don't need much performance for just the IRC part
17:35:10 <kspalaiologos> and if it's too slow I can compile the brainfuck to optimized C
17:36:00 <fizzie> The zemhill of the underscores is done in Ruby too.
17:36:27 <b_jonas> but for the brainfuck part, your goal was that it should be able to run programs that take more time than what fungоt is willing to run
17:37:09 <b_jonas> and FireFly eventually ported jevalbot to ruby 2.something
17:38:52 <FireFly> I don't know ruby, and changed a handful of things it complained about to get it running (like 3-4 places or so)
17:39:47 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: it used to be a decent language, but it's old and maintained in the wrong way just like perl is
17:40:09 <kspalaiologos> quicksort=: (($:@(<#[), (=#[), $:@(>#[)) ({~ ?@#)) ^: (1<#)
17:40:13 <FireFly> APLs are very handy as ridiculously owerful calculators
17:40:44 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: I think that expression is not something that people seriously write, it's just something people write to show off how ugly J is. there's a builtin sort operation.
17:41:10 <kspalaiologos> kingoffrance, let me show you my 50 entry PPCG Malbolge repo
17:41:11 <FireFly> well, it's a combination of being used to read it, of formatting/clarity, and of choosing a reasonable example
17:41:37 <FireFly> I mean you can point at IOCCC and complain that C is a ridiculous language (which, well, wouldn't be the wrong conclusion, but...)
17:41:53 <FireFly> Honestly, I mostly use J as a ridiculously powerful calculator
17:42:31 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: have you written quicksort in other languages, and doesn't it also look bad?
17:42:49 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: that's also not something that people would write
17:42:57 <FireFly> There's many ways to implement fibonacci, and that one is one of the less natural ones in J
17:43:04 <b_jonas> it's one of the worst ones
17:43:13 <b_jonas> just try running it with 100 as the argument
17:43:17 <FireFly> it's a bit like insisting on writing an imperative solution in Haskell, instead of a functional one
17:43:44 <FireFly> have you seen the Dyalog APL video on Game of Life?
17:43:58 <FireFly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4
17:44:03 <b_jonas> it's like fibo 1 = 1; fibo 2 = 1; fibo k = fibo (k - 1) + fibo (k - 2); would you actually write that in Haskell?
17:44:07 <FireFly> (APL and J are similar enough that the concepts translate
17:44:36 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: what? not even the 2 in the middle, which is used to subtract 2 from the index?
17:44:47 <b_jonas> or the - which is used to do that subtraction?
17:45:44 <b_jonas> oh right, a better analog in Haskell would be a stupid pointfree one
17:46:06 <b_jonas> with Applicative <*> and whatnot inside, so you can claim that it subtracts <&> from <*> or however that works
17:46:54 <b_jonas> but I'm not fluent in Haskell to write that
17:47:16 <kingoffrance> kspalaiologos, its not the bottle of poison labelled poison you have to worry about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar19vwtxEKs youd have to convince me your code comes dressed as a goddess and then morphs into death; malbolge i dont think makes any illusions about rescuing people :)
17:48:08 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: "Python" is labeled as poisonous too
17:48:35 <kspalaiologos> <s> it's called JavaScript we know it can't be good </s>
17:49:41 <b_jonas> yes, I know it's a stupid example because pythons are actually constricting, not venomous
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19:24:46 <int-e> I'm confused; 700 bytes is small.
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19:28:16 <zzo38> Yes, but it is a lot for Hello World
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19:36:35 <kspalaiologos> 300 bytes for xlat's, 100 bytes for crazyop table and 9 powers,
19:36:58 <kspalaiologos> yet the xlat's are stored in rcl/sto memory region
19:37:13 <kspalaiologos> and due to my stupidness, it's size is multiplied by two
19:37:38 <kspalaiologos> but the +300 overhead is constant for all the programs
19:42:30 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68691&oldid=68079 * OsmineYT * (+19)
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20:57:31 <zzo38> Now TeXnicard is able to use a code such as: 100 100 setpagesize /Courier 10 selectfont 20 30 moveto (Hello) show << /Opacity 0.5 >> seteffect 1 0 0 setrgbcolor newpath 20 20 moveto 20 40 lineto 40 30 lineto fillspecial In interactive mode, you must put . at the beginning to indicate that it is a PostScript code, and then the next line you can write ^0 to make a preview.
20:58:07 <zzo38> The quality of the text rendering isn't very good, but I would later add the ability to use TeX fonts, and then it will be good.
20:58:26 <zzo38> Also, are there any other effects other than opacity that you think would be useful to implement in here?
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21:04:18 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sholus * New user account
21:12:39 <b_jonas> ooh! Super Monkey Ball is finally back to GDQ! And this time it's warpless
21:16:56 <b_jonas> nice! Super Mario World one mind 11 exit coop. that will be worth to see.
21:21:39 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68692&oldid=68672 * Sholus * (+169) /* Introductions */
21:34:09 <b_jonas> someone pointed out how the D&D rules imply that it's practically impossible to see the Sun and the Moon, because the bonus you get to see large objects is logarithmic in their size, but the penalty for seeing distant objects is linear in the distant
21:35:48 <zzo38> O, then better rules should be written, I suppose.
21:41:51 <b_jonas> the penalty is -1 point per 10 feet of distance, so it's too high even if you choose to apply only the -3333 points for the 10 kilometers of the atmosphere
21:46:43 <zzo38> GURPS rules is different; there is adjustments for both distance and for size; 3 yards is 1, 100 yards is 10, 100 miles is 30, etc; you add for size and subtract for distance. (If it is smaller than 2 yards then there is also a penalty for size.)
21:47:21 <zzo38> These same numbers are used for ranged attacks (such as arrows, guns, spit poison, etc)
21:49:10 <zzo38> These seem to be better than D&D, but I don't know if better rules could be made. I think what they did wrong with the GURPS is they have a table but failed to mention the equation which generates the table.
21:55:07 <b_jonas> how much is the penalty for 8 miles?
22:01:43 <b_jonas> that doesn't seem bad. and how much bonus do you add to that for an object of 116 meters diameter, which is about how large the moon looks like at that distance
22:04:39 <b_jonas> in D&D, you get +4 bonus for every power of two that the object is larger than a human
22:04:41 <zzo38> But probably the full size should be used and not only the apparent size
22:05:24 <b_jonas> the diameter of the Moon is 3.5 megameters
22:05:26 <zzo38> GURPS also has penalties for darkness, from -1 to -9, or no penalty if it is bright.
22:06:08 <b_jonas> that makes sense, and it might matter for the Sun
22:06:48 <zzo38> It also says there is a bonus of +10 to spot something in plain sight (such as seeing a car is coming toward you on the road).
22:07:46 <b_jonas> that may apply if there are no clouds
22:07:58 <b_jonas> or no clouds covering the Moon or Sun at least
22:09:37 <b_jonas> and the Sun or Moon is above the horizon
22:12:30 <zzo38> Yes, I think that makes sense.
22:41:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mikadio * New user account
22:52:44 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68693&oldid=68692 * Mikadio * (+263)
22:55:04 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Contest 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68694&oldid=67306 * Mikadio * (+145)
23:37:46 <zzo38> Would it be work to use pipe() to create a pipe and then use popen() and pass the other end of the pipe using /proc/.../fd/ files?
23:47:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's usually a bad idea, because you can deadlock yourself when both your program and the other program are blocked on a write with a full pipe
23:47:53 <b_jonas> so it only works if you use an event loop or something to check for when the read pipe is readable and when the write pipe is writable
23:47:59 <b_jonas> and read or write respectively
23:48:09 <b_jonas> it can be done, but in most cases it's not worth, unless you really need interactivity
23:48:40 <zzo38> O, yes, that is right. Is there some other way that you need not make a disk file?
23:49:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: make a file in a tmp file system and have no swap?
23:49:50 <b_jonas> usually I don't think it's worth to avoid creating files
23:49:57 <b_jonas> unless you tell why you really need that
23:50:26 <zzo38> I don't want to prevent swap, only to not add a file into the system.
23:50:39 <zzo38> (It is up to the operating system to decide whether or not to swap out)
23:50:49 <b_jonas> like for ugly privacy requirements where you want to limit what attackers can do if they can get physical access to your computer or root access after your program has finished
23:51:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: then just create a file on a tmpfs
23:52:34 <b_jonas> but if you really want, you can use an event loop and handle both the read and write pipes, buffering everything in memory
23:52:46 <b_jonas> just make sure to read all the data you can from the read pipe, even if you don't yet need it
23:52:57 <zzo38> I don't know much about tmpfs, but perhaps that would work
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23:53:36 <b_jonas> or you can spawn a separate thread or process for one end of the pipe if you want to waste more resources than a file
23:53:58 <b_jonas> but generally, if you don't need interactivity, just use a file
23:54:30 <zzo38> My computer says that /run is tmpfs
23:54:41 <b_jonas> if the input data is really short and the process you're spawning is suitable, you may be able to pass all the data in argv
23:56:20 <zzo38> Wikipedia says that tmpfs is used on /tmp but I do not see that on my computer.
23:57:02 <b_jonas> no, it's usually not on /tmp , though it is in some setups
23:57:12 <b_jonas> but you can mount any number of them
23:57:45 <b_jonas> basically it's just a file system that stores all its data in the file system caches, and never flushes those caches
23:59:11 <b_jonas> plus some extra magic so you can customize how much (virtual) memory it can consume and give ENOSPC when you try to consume more
23:59:25 <b_jonas> the data it uses can be swapped out
23:59:42 <b_jonas> if you have swaps set up, obviously