< 1583107374 833113 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.9.189.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1583107470 933203 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dang it. < 1583107791 260486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's do this properly this time. < 1583109680 556537 :_!61549412@97-84-148-18.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1583109696 867392 :_!61549412@97-84-148-18.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1583109785 252572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nybblang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70096&oldid=70029 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+127) 10/* Program import */ > 1583110201 595492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Orca14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70097&oldid=70081 5* 03Neauoire 5* (+177) 10 < 1583110866 26611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dang it: I missed a corner case in my Ponder This approach.) < 1583112136 471845 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1583112343 699388 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583112439 721274 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1583112509 526878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was so typical... the mistakes are never in the tricky part of the code, but in the places you consider obvious and easy :-/ < 1583113017 238811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: anything to lighten the mood? < 1583113017 388748 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what really? i thought eval would bork when asked to input a character, or it's only in pity. > 1583113206 523805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70098&oldid=70092 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+410) 10/* Set the accumulator to 0 */ new extension. TC > 1583113225 582811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70099&oldid=70098 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* New commands */ < 1583114877 609324 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1583115320 935669 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4cb7:a22f:382:20d5 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583115657 77615 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1583116085 85404 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1583116285 338121 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:dcbe:fc89:1ab5:8591 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583116361 284416 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2435:9190:c474:523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583116435 338380 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4c69:f624:e6a:66ab JOIN :#esoteric < 1583116591 277163 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:dcbe:fc89:1ab5:8591 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1583116667 291109 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2435:9190:c474:523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1583116743 277369 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4c69:f624:e6a:66ab QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1583118621 157176 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583118654 1646 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1583119983 272922 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583120277 281560 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1583121819 498866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70100&oldid=70089 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-5) 10 < 1583126102 704672 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583126264 367609 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1583126621 138014 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, someone used to sign their Usenet posts with a line about "evil umpire", but this was too early to be archived. < 1583126763 762339 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I should probably implement scoring in bystand. There seems to be a lot of spam posted through Google to news.software.readers. (Maybe that is why some Usenet users do not want to receive messages posted through Google.) < 1583126832 365743 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1583126958 557305 :TellsTogo!b2751b2c@178-117-27-44.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1583127343 73402 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not wish to block all messages posted through Google, since some people who use Google have actual relevant stuff to write. However, I do not post using Google myself.) < 1583129862 508744 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Hollerith chording? < 1583129982 909080 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what is that? < 1583130054 664570 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is my idea of how to enter text using a numeric keypad. There are other systems of entering text using a numeric keypad, and I think all of them are not very good. < 1583130109 900447 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hollerith chording means if you push one button at a time then it makes numbers; if you push multiples at a time then it corresponds to multiple holes in one column of a computer card, and makes whatever letter that combination of holes represents. < 1583130164 145922 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A separate button is needed for a space, although most systems using a numeric keypad already have a few other buttons anyways.) < 1583130227 909468 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-50-7.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think is the best system for text entry using a numeric keypad? < 1583131268 683637 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1583131526 119765 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Quit: This page is intentionally left blank. < 1583131553 356934 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1583133785 951871 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:b998:6501:8471:8cfa QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583134525 635763 :TellsTogo!b2751b2c@178-117-27-44.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 Dotsies https://dotsies.org/ < 1583134890 342417 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583134996 981229 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1583135014 48694 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1583135014 371504 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1583135063 678002 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583135123 672809 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1583135158 279562 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583135560 70884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-110.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1583136662 184232 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-report/ < 1583136664 308870 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-report/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale kmc < 1583139842 69788 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583139898 272236 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583141277 835199 :PkmnQ!781d4cf6@120.29.76.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583141347 44728 :PkmnQ!781d4cf6@120.29.76.246 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583141796 193639 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning. If a conventional OS has a Command-Line Interface (CLI) then it stands to reason that a Befunge-based OS would have a Command-Plane Interface (CPI). < 1583141855 542255 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally < 1583142030 510506 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm not sure about that. a Befunge-based OS might use Befunge as a platform to run user-space programs, or for the kernel, neither implies that the shell has to be befunge too. < 1583142066 800012 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are systems that run mostly machine code programs with system calls, but have a unix sh or dos shell or BASIC or Forth command line interface < 1583142101 931730 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, some (but not all) BASIC-based interfaces are already command planes, in that they let you edit anywhere on a screen sized buffer of inputs and let you run any line there < 1583142158 329234 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By all rights that stupid system should be extinct, but it lives on in worksheet interfaces like that of Mathematica or SAGE, and the immediates window of VBA. < 1583142368 270411 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a befunge command-plane shell on an OS that isn't based on befunge though, and befunge is particulary usable for this in fact, < 1583142403 614469 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because befunge already takes the program from the same command plane to where it can read data inputs and write outputs, just like how those BASIC shells work. < 1583142497 562289 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583147598 399287 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1583147618 139841 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1583148383 247833 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1583148403 144463 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1583148645 122960 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Client Quit < 1583148695 36614 :laerling_!~lsf@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1583148771 9835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1583149341 31174 :laerling_!~lsf@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1583149360 1742 :laerling_!~lsf@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1583150114 943782 :laerling_!~lsf@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1583150243 756391 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Hmm, I tried to match your 74 bit equality test but I'm stuck at 79 for now. But I have a 73 bit *dis*equality test now. < 1583150275 680284 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is 73 bit now < 1583150283 986236 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1583150311 751420 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it's just using scott_succ and scott_pred < 1583150341 913530 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the binary format of LC? < 1583150355 143371 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slightly tweaked scott_pred actually < 1583150367 865235 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what's the bitcount for? < 1583150371 418396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: But I also have 58 bit less than and less than or equal tests, and a 66 bit minimum. < 1583150379 508916 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, size measured in blc encoding < 1583150533 504669 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1583150884 843551 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now embarking on a much more involved term looking for odd perfect numbers < 1583151192 629459 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, modulo is <= 113 bits < 1583151229 185690 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and div <= 126 bits < 1583151249 905063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: could you look for Fermat primes 2**(2**k)+1 for 5<=k integer instead? < 1583151311 713664 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be straightforward given our small primesieve < 1583151409 587921 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try later < 1583151459 223501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess odd perfect numbers would be a more interesting goal < 1583151542 409863 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, smallest conjecture testing program is 213 bit Laver table one < 1583151571 650591 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goldbach sits at 267 bits < 1583151609 519982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :div is <= 105 bits. < 1583151613 698303 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect oddperfect to come in between those < 1583151625 453733 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: cool, something new! < 1583151642 285542 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And \n m. n `div` (m+1) is even shorter. < 1583151921 700606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what representation of natural numbers are you using here for those bit counts? < 1583152023 805420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Church < 1583152063 886967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original one, which encodes 4 as (\x.\y.x(x(x(x y)))) ? < 1583152133 119878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that one < 1583152150 40842 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The orthodox Church encoding. < 1583152173 12266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing that that's called Church encoding < 1583152181 417082 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1583152183 904598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not easy to fix it now < 1583152260 883173 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other encoding is referred to that way? < 1583152275 305205 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only one I know of under that name < 1583152297 448284 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: let's make that 95 < 1583152312 34758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and 88 for n/(m+1)) < 1583152445 849183 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.205.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583152556 28822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: there's an encoding for algebraic types, where if you have a type with say three constructors A, B, C, then you encode a value A as (\a\b\c.a), the value (B x y) as (\a\b\c.bxy), and the value (C z) as (\a\b\c.cz) < 1583152590 358169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which a special case is encoding False as (\f\t.f) and True as (\f\t.t) < 1583152598 392567 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called the Scott encoding? < 1583152624 309847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? I think someone called it Church something, at least in the case of non-recursive data types < 1583152629 35444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look up the chat log < 1583152695 91012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, I'm probably just confused < 1583152699 280811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how all these encodings work < 1583152782 839493 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I guess the confusion might be due to there being a common subset of them? < 1583152812 194001 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Church booleans end up the same as the Scott encoding for a boolean type < 1583152814 516580 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/95/91/ (and 84 for n/(m+1)), hmm. But I think this may be it. mod will be worse. < 1583152890 375655 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using any lists? < 1583152897 22775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1583152909 256291 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine are all list based:( < 1583153014 250064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of this as coroutines for the time being. < 1583153038 426708 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way more awesome than lists < 1583153139 43431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying the same with mod now, hmm. doesn't terminate... what did I do wrong :) < 1583153163 680058 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583153316 36359 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: try not to divide by zero < 1583153472 162859 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that wasn't the issue ;) < 1583154108 473723 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust int-e to try with nonzero denominators:) < 1583154158 159955 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you also use coroutines for eq? < 1583154198 847066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1583154367 672976 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1583155160 373239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70101&oldid=70099 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Multi-cell extension (Turing-complete) */ < 1583155338 416064 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: eq/mod/div added to AIT repo. feel free to make improvements < 1583155357 680864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, mod with this approach seems to come out at 115 bits. < 1583155396 722376 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is okay I suppose. :P < 1583155460 312225 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very competitive with mine! < 1583155471 684022 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your div is way better though < 1583155521 771022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's 90 bits now :) < 1583155634 854736 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be the first example of coroutines in the repo? < 1583155767 357804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushed the div, so feel free to argue whether this is using coroutines or not. < 1583155990 294322 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mod is now 107 bits < 1583156042 936808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Observation: n carries enough "recursive power" to avoid the full fixed point construction) > 1583156159 766440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70102&oldid=70101 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+160) 10 > 1583156178 237981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70103&oldid=70102 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Commands */ < 1583156387 517661 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: where is this AIT repo? < 1583156417 859653 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/tromp/AIT < 1583156459 467158 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: good point about using n as poor man's Y < 1583156498 924304 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're golfing functions in binary lambda calculus? < 1583156600 433456 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're this guy https://tromp.github.io/cl/cl.html < 1583156692 534388 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that guy:) < 1583156717 737731 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, this guy https://github.com/tromp/ < 1583156750 881871 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that change also makes it so that mod n 0 no longer diverges:) < 1583156787 573779 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, we get mod n 0 = 1 < 1583156803 565693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( very useful ) < 1583156911 780918 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really cool that you can define mod 0 m as m false, using only 2 bits for the inner argument < 1583156985 432767 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1583157048 980387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70104&oldid=70103 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Commands */ < 1583157065 86125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically what "kills" the coroutine approach for mod is that the counter isn't monotonic, so I need to deal with an extra argument... doing that in three places adds up to 20-ish bits. < 1583157079 966708 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(25) < 1583157181 491614 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask why the counter isn't monotonic < 1583157198 27271 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod m m < mod (m-1) m < 1583157198 857554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to be reset when it reaches the modulus. < 1583157213 432295 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. hm. ok. < 1583157242 690606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in contrast to 'div', which is just, pass, pass, pass, bump counter, pass, pass... < 1583157317 381549 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use mod x y = x - div x y to get any gain? < 1583157331 240464 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x - y * div x y < 1583157344 7039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No, I can't do - and * in 25 bits. < 1583157352 219018 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :( < 1583157385 707799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(- is the worse of the two... 56 bits is the best I have for that) < 1583157428 383213 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even \m\n. \f\x. m f (n f x) is already 33 bits. < 1583157470 867701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. what am I doing? < 1583157474 566786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's addition. < 1583157519 761649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication *is* cheap, \m\n. \f. m (n f) = 19 bits. (These numbers change by about 10 when the thing is inlined.) < 1583157618 602597 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes ponder if i should rename binary lambda calculus to "bitwise" < 1583157637 493781 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would make googling way harder:( < 1583157659 508567 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh it's the "LC" part that's alluring to me < 1583157688 944527 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i like to mention that too. it's just quite a mouthful < 1583157742 425731 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, programming languages names are single words < 1583157743 678028 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583157792 330857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just smoosh those words together, into "Bilaca" or something, Fortran-style. < 1583157825 869169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or Bilamcal.) < 1583158072 672056 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1583158858 165986 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583159283 678144 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583159393 671156 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1583160816 810897 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1583161026 944946 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( BottLeneCk ) < 1583161329 579263 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLaCK < 1583161345 886197 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean BLaCk < 1583161464 338009 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot in spanish BLanCa < 1583161678 42862 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1583161795 652020 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1583162499 749819 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding this month's Ponder This: the nice regular spacing of 20% unoccupied board squares is ruled out. so it's something irregular with higher unoccupied density towards the borders < 1583162591 673468 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, there can be no unoccupied square surrounded regularly by 4 others at knight's move distance < 1583162617 780890 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.205.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: you could portmanteau BLaCk and BLanCa into BLanCk which may be more googlable if not many people misspell “blank” (or write “blanck” intentionally) < 1583162622 307780 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its 4 directly adjacent squares would all need to be different < 1583162685 68360 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.205.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or for a z-grade linguistic pun, BLãCk) < 1583163201 12384 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzegkfojnzmswtue JOIN :#esoteric < 1583164288 80158 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1583165210 368138 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1583165369 682243 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: We should probably discuss this in April :P < 1583165439 759757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know I talked about this a lot but I tried to keep it vague and avoid spoilers.) < 1583165763 675798 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583165841 671608 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1583166641 557725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70105&oldid=70095 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+644) 10new bfpp (based on Lua); r5 and r6 added to the register model < 1583166817 369006 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, thought you talked about the ladders and snakes one < 1583167753 942051 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1583167993 366473 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1583168140 476739 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1583171856 285814 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1583171996 76836 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1583172036 721627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70106&oldid=70105 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-408) 10remove automated calls section < 1583172201 193539 :TellsTogo!b2751b2c@178-117-27-44.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583172770 979096 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583172837 35060 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1583173287 660236 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583173312 139654 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583174594 961565 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1583176734 22440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I also talked about that one previously < 1583176896 118916 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1583177097 43346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: they tend to post these challenges a bit early (the March one was posted February 27th, and I discovered it on the 29th). < 1583177163 170104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also tend to close them a bit late. < 1583177196 59776 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583177332 2244 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1583177385 426004 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583177563 492077 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1583178060 712711 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583178104 73090 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9466:854e:4c69:46e7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that this one can be solved manually < 1583178263 314532 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1583178267 856299 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1583178412 440158 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not inconceivable. < 1583178416 869189 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1583178464 362769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't really try.) < 1583181823 698119 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1583181968 715981 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1583186440 923972 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1583186443 375045 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1583191051 559694 :FortyTwo!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583191064 705799 :FortyTwo!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583191123 559168 :Thousand-YearSto!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583191137 132859 :Thousand-YearSto!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583191170 560091 :TYS61!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583191174 209089 :TYS61!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1583191236 559507 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1583191659 548523 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, I have been working on doing the most possible damage in Magic the Gathering, without going infinite, and while we have gotten some big numbers, we would like to implement some sort of turing complete set of (forced) operations as the BusyBeaver function would grow even faster. < 1583191784 53109 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTG has already been proved Turing complete, however all of the known setups actually allow for the creation of nondeterministic Turing machines, which could loop for an arbitrary amount of time before halting. < 1583191807 370172 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty cool. < 1583191814 669494 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if YGO is turing complete. < 1583191890 365333 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have been trying to get https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model to work but have run into a few problems < 1583191922 506421 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome, MTGBusyBeaver < 1583191926 780463 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YGO has finite board-space right? so I doubt it, < 1583191979 301906 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do have an infinite hand and there's quite a lot of non-HOPT self bouncing effects < 1583192006 783531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver: yes, ais523 was trying to get a simulation of that to work, and I think he did get it to work eventually, just didn't make a clear enough documentation of the details of that construction < 1583192104 994418 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a working construction, it just also allows for nondeterminism as nothing forces the encoded waterfall program to never have two registers zero simultaniously < 1583192160 237421 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have no way for that to trigger the halt < 1583192211 284564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver: sure, but you can choose the program < 1583192223 13042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just choose a waterfall model program that never has two register zero simultaneously < 1583192239 240970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can translate any program to twm that way < 1583192239 370514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's not useful for the busy beaver function though < 1583192266 580935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1583192273 944622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why not? < 1583192281 991647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a busy beaver turing machine, translate it to TWM < 1583192283 22831 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we can't allow for even the opportunity for nonderterminism < 1583192302 137556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation is rather inefficient because TWM is like that, but it works < 1583192303 875210 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so you're saying, take a TC language, translate it to TWM in a special way, and then do BB on top of that? < 1583192316 427727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1583192327 378948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then translate the TWM program to an M:tG game plan < 1583192361 736990 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, I just missed the first indirection. < 1583192370 697404 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the MTG game plan with the same cards could make a nondeterministic TWM program and beat the BB bound < 1583192399 317441 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver: the game with the same cards could also just not enter any TWM loop, you might just never play the right combos < 1583192407 591552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting up the combo is nontrivial, it's easy to mess it up actually < 1583192409 644643 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I imagined you'd filter TWM programs for those that are "good" in the sense that they never have two zero registers as they run. < 1583192410 414792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the problem < 1583192433 53819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you can't really "filter" them after the fact, that's uncomputable and at least as halt as telling if a turing machine halts < 1583192447 143311 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hence my initial response (and objection) < 1583192471 771769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1583192491 875385 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we get to pick our draws and plays, we wont "mess up" the combo, and if there is a line that does more damage we will take it < 1583192527 341977 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that amount of damage is unbounded, the deck is disqualified. < 1583192539 145860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver: sure, but nothing in the deck forces you to do that specific combo. if you can go off with the deck, you can just win instantly rather than try to set up a combo < 1583192543 640641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1583192592 795875 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver: but then the TWM indeterminacy doesn't matter either, you could also set up a TWM program that deals infinite damage, or just deal infinite damage without going through the hoops < 1583192645 73424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :longname: infinite hand like https://www.xkcd.com/1099/ ? < 1583192658 863233 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that the busy beaver machine would incidentially output tokens that could only attack after the TM halts < 1583192778 377881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xkcd.com/2275/ a Giant Spider? aaargh < 1583192843 366482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Have I complained already that covid-19 is a totally awful name? "corona virus disease 2019". < 1583192860 29197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, it should have a four-digit year name in there < 1583192883 576529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the virus name got some actual symptoms, SARS-CoV-2. < 1583192906 929980 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1583192917 709881 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only have 60 cards in your deck, max < 1583192924 583235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No, my complaint is about descriptiveness. < 1583192931 453140 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess you could only have 60 cards in hand total. < 1583192967 226381 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you took cards from your opponents hands too actually, so total 120 < 1583192991 726293 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Standard decks must contain a minimum of sixty cards. There is no maximum deck size; however, one must be able to shuffle one's deck without assistance." < 1583192997 710424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has this changed? < 1583193022 654090 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talkin' YGO, Beaver's talking MTG < 1583193029 389083 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1583193124 350379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in M:tG, you can momentarily put tokens into your deck or your hand, though they disappear the next time state-based actions are processed, and in some crazy cases they actually matter in your deck and make it hard to figure out how to follow the rules < 1583193145 335011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "is just too catchy" -- is that a play on its virility? < 1583193191 692839 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hm. Then yeah I guess maybe YGO is impossible to make turing incomplete without some change in rules just 'cus of a lack of memory. < 1583193205 823384 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*impossible to make turing complete. < 1583193248 436990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :longname: really? that's surprising < 1583193368 620907 :longname!~airbouy@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can summon shitloads of tokens (actually infinitely in theory with some mayakura the destructor + utlimate offering + phantom skyblaster + gy looping shenanigans) but they can only appear on the field < 1583193444 105406 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The useful operations we have: 2xArcbond (when this creature takes damage it deals that much damage to each other creature) allow us to set up a 'clock' that locks us out of interaction once the TM has been put into motion until one of the targeted creatures dies, artificial evolution lets us change the creature types a card refers to, rotlung < 1583193444 605122 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reanimator (whenever a creature of type X dies create a 2/2 Y token) allows us to remake/change things Dralnu's Crusade (all X's are also Ys) lets us have things with multiple types. < 1583193514 483402 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it were impossible to make it Turing-complete because it lacks crazy building blocks like (Rotlung Reanimator or Xathrid Necromancer or Hungry Lynx) and Artificial Evolution < 1583193535 25376 :MTGBusyBeaver!c73b3502@199.59.53.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about trying some sort of cyclic tag system using Coat of arms (each creature gets +x+x for each creature that shares a type with it) but I dont think that is enough < 1583193535 266490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't surprise me. but if you can actually prove that YGO is not TC because of lack of memory, that _would_ surprise me. < 1583193576 349238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me for a newer game like Hearthstone that may be specifically designed to avoid such crazy combos, but Yu Gi Oh is old