< 1585958988 910174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585959013 662551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi MTGBusyBeaver42 < 1585959076 247511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry that I haven't been doing much on the M:tG busy beaver construction, I've been too busy playing Netrunner < 1585959084 517608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, sadly, is probably not Turing-complete; I have tried, of course) < 1585961296 404325 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you read my comment of the card game you wrote the rules for? (Also, maybe we can print cards for that game using TeXnicard, if you want to, I suppose) < 1585961307 748234 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have some other comments too, which I did not mention yet.) < 1585961422 373045 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think some people on this IRC may be playing mahjong? To those people, I want to ask what rule variations do you use, e.g. do you use any red fives (and if so how many), and do you use kuitan ari or kuitan nashi? < 1585963062 432078 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what you thinking of the ability counters and other new rules of Magic: the Gathering cards? < 1585964176 744272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I read your comment but didn't immediately have an opinion about it < 1585964183 228004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to remember how my game worked < 1585964222 815111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in order to make it into a proper game, you'd need to experiment with multiple versions of the rules until you found something that worked < 1585964239 272297 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a copy of your file in case you lost it. < 1585964241 416591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are ability counters? < 1585964277 794264 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something new in Magic: the Gathering apparently, that permanents with an ability counter have the corresponding ability. < 1585964296 675101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Netrunner has had that for ages < 1585964301 11591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should think a new sublayer would be added to handle this, like there is a sublayer for power/toughness counters, presumably.) < 1585964306 950999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're called "condition counters" and have abilities that affect the card they're on < 1585964314 801030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the only way to create them is that a card turns itself into the counter < 1585964326 555629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this makes it easy to remember what the counter does, by seeing what card it is) < 1585964376 429118 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea I had before they did this was ability tokens, which is just another kind of predefined tokens. < 1585964539 753427 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585964562 53319 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585964651 704776 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries ais523, there have been a lot of changes to the deck recently packing in more optimizations < 1585964887 781449 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more worried about the judge calls about the new companions < 1585964905 528345 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for the prerelease (if that even happens) < 1585964912 576578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Netrunner? or in M:tG? < 1585964919 362197 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in MTG < 1585964944 820607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, I was confused because the new netrunner sets also have a mechanic called "companions" that are likely to cause judge calls < 1585964955 898310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they lead to a lot of undos when playing online, and you can't really play not-online atm…) < 1585964987 373218 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well these companions have a deckbuilding restriction < 1585965010 723820 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worries specifically about Lutri, the Spellchaser < 1585965026 793481 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Companion — Each nonland card in your starting deck has a different name. (If this card is your chosen companion, you may cast it once from outside the game.)" < 1585965078 210787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, "starting deck" implies that the restrictions can be met or unmet as a consequence of sideboarding < 1585965086 420646 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only is that a complete freeroll in any izzet edh deck, its the only restriction that is easy to cheat on < 1585965088 389944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for that, you could probably just verify them in deck checks < 1585965109 984436 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will require deck checks < 1585965183 613397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, when I saw the Amonkhet spoilers I thought it'd require too many counter/token types to work < 1585965190 597713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still think I was right in retrospect < 1585965200 247146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike keyword counters for a similar reason < 1585965231 641433 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike ability counters for a different reason, which is namespace collision < 1585965296 243840 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One way to avoid this is to write "flying ability counter" or "banding ability counter" instead of "flying counter" or "banding counter". Although my idea previously was tokens instead anyways, which has its own advantages and disadvantages over this way.) < 1585965332 755837 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't give out Banding counters < 1585965355 729315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bands with other creatures with bands with other counters" < 1585965444 203633 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you monster < 1585965525 48917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it demonstrates the namespace collision, though < 1585965530 704490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really hard to parse < 1585965555 820929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I think the M10 rules update ruined banding < 1585965564 894389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when damage went on the stack, it was pretty easy to explain < 1585965599 347137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more recent version of the combat rules is less loopholey but much more complex, and banding seems more complex still because it effectively sets the combat rules back to the older way of doing things < 1585965632 187700 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although I think some of that has to do with how damage prevention effects work; they work differently before and after Sixth Edition rules. < 1585965692 551588 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think banding is too confusing, although there is a problem with the "bands with other" rules, that I wrote some alternative rules for which I think is better and less confusing. < 1585965962 783344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585966001 569878 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Fifth Edition, all damage went on the stack, although it is a different stack than the stack in the modern game. You could also only play spells and abilities that target whatever is on the top of the stack. < 1585966273 468391 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think destruction events also used the stack; effects which regenerate a permanent targeted the destruction events.) < 1585967164 234430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *sigh* no, < 1585967229 457560 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcekkuegnxviwrtt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1585967322 237101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they already know how to handle the case when the card turns itself to an enchantment etc. but they want repeatable effects like on a planeswalker, and if they really want to do those, I admit that then counters that by themselves grant abilities is the cleanest solution. < 1585967360 454344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned Balduvian Frostvaker earlier, which has the same problem, it has a repeatable effect that modifies a permanent without a timeout, so you want to mark it somehow < 1585967373 742478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you would mark it with a bead anyway, it's better if the rules treat it as a real counter < 1585967376 680445 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably correct. < 1585967427 1903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it gets complicated because there are multiple different types of counters that your deck can give to any creature, but since they want to do such an effect in just this set, ability-granting counters are probably the best < 1585967603 982699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it will get ugly even in limited, because in just this one set Ikoria, you can get +1/+1, menace, deathtouch, trample, lifelink, flying, hexproof counters, just from commons and uncommons; < 1585967669 278906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll likely slow down tournaments a lot, because you can no longer just look at a creature's art and number of counters to know its stats < 1585967685 553974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have rares, "Chevill, Bane of Monsters" puts bounty counters on any creature, other rares can add first strike, reach, vigilance counters (mind you, first strik counter probably apperas on an unrevealed uncommon too). < 1585967690 92529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly < 1585967703 253999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, sometimes people played auras, but not very often in constructed tournaments) < 1585967708 705554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very good gimmick for a set, but there's probably been worse gimmicks < 1585967735 562213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the decisions get hard too, because there are rares that by themself can grant many different type of counters < 1585967740 826587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amonkhet had ridiculously complicated tokens < 1585967757 915335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I played, tokens were mostly just 1/1 creatures with no abilities, and you could represent them using beads < 1585967784 369549 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just took a piece of paper and tore it and wrote the characteristics of the token on the paper. < 1585967799 260464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, admittedly that's just one card so far, "Vivien, Monster's Advocate" and it puts three types of counters < 1585967815 332170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus "Crystalline Giant" which puts counters on itself only, and randomly < 1585967831 769564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently "Crystalline Giant" is rare, not mythic < 1585967880 965979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heck no, when I played, tokens were 1/1 green elves and 1/1 black-green elves and 1/1 green saprolings, and you had to distinguish them to know which ones get bonuses from the elf lords < 1585967921 405473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to follow which ones are tapped, which ones have summoning sickness, and I want to have a lot of them, because the elf decks only wins if it takes the opponent over by growing big < 1585967922 478227 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and for effects which say "non-black" or "protection from black" or otherwise cares about the colors < 1585967933 113517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't that trivial to keep up < 1585967970 184888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or just fear < 1585967984 246616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fear isn't used in standard-legal sets nowadays < 1585967988 297914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1585967996 917868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is a pity < 1585967997 404638 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fear, too < 1585968001 234791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we were talking about how magic was played back then < 1585968009 831372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in old magic, some colors had advantages in the ways that other colors interacted with them < 1585968021 55115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. black creatures were harder to destroy, because many removal spells had a "nonblack" requirement < 1585968025 12256 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up custom (unofficial) sets with fear and whatever else, if you want to do, I think. < 1585968047 329832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowadays those requirements aren't kept to consistently, so any benefits of a card have to be on the card itself < 1585968062 445056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's clearer to new players to do it that way < 1585968239 140481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, with Terror and Befoul (target nonblack nonartifact creature). but then it got uglier because we started to run removal like Doom Blade (target nonblack), Deathmark (target green or white creature), Soul Reap (target nongreen creature), Eyeblight's Ending (target non-Elf creature), and more weird ones < 1585968248 810982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as universal ones that just target any creature of course < 1585968288 236222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are just the black removal spells, the white ones are weird in different ways < 1585968298 837831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the black ones and the white ones also have varying effects < 1585968324 918425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all gets complicated if you don't just run a red deck with simple lightning bolt style spells < 1585968365 456761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least we lost "it can't be regenerated" clauses, which is a good thing < 1585968510 40408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that regenerate should have been templated as "the next time this creature would die, regenerate it instead" < 1585968523 920684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the word "regenerate" redefined to fit the new template) < 1585968529 948013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be much clearer on how regeneration works < 1585968554 277343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it might not fit on some of the more complicated cards though < 1585968555 968815 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't like about "regenerate" is how it means two different things (although related), so that would help. However, I think that text is too long. < 1585968729 216938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :regenerate is probably bad because it is one of those complicated keywords that appeared on many cards since early sets and the rules had to maintain and its use was continued as a sort of tradition, similar to protection and banding < 1585968756 229693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that the early sets shouldn't have started that tradition, but it's sort of too late now, and it would be even uglier to have a different regenerate-like ability in parallel < 1585968850 328499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such an ability exists and is commonly used, "gains indestructible until end of turn" < 1585968854 161969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is still better than the simpler abilities that existed in lots of different versions, like reach, shroud, hexproof, lifelink, deathtouch, and all those triggers that grant +X/+X when the creature is (a) attacking (b) blocking (c) blocked (d) unblocked (c) blocked but with multipilicity (f) blocking but with multiplicity etc < 1585968858 128051 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think regenerate, protection, and banding are all fine, although the wording for regeneration is bad due to how I mentioned. < 1585968905 954833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gains indestructible is somewhat more powerful though, because it doesn't remove the creature from combat < 1585968925 34408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that only matters if there's more than one damage assignment time I guess < 1585968928 40238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such things < 1585968953 718177 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. One card I made up though is "Universal Salvation", which regenerates all permanents when it resolves. < 1585968969 801402 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also written cards with "regenerate and then destroy this permanent". < 1585968979 169691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name bear umbra < 1585968980 26877 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bear Umbra \ 2GG \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has "Whenever this creature attacks, untap all lands you control." \ Totem armor (If enchanted creature would be destroyed, instead remove all damage from it and destroy this Aura.) \ ROE-R < 1585968993 600135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this is how regenerate should have been done originally, but it's incompatible with our regenerate < 1585969058 443713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with "The next time this creature would be destroyed" for repeatable abilities of course < 1585969121 345484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lets you use {T} abilities of the creature after combat < 1585969132 660519 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guess that one is somewhat similar to what ais suggests < 1585969155 97463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "gains indestructible until end of turn" < 1585969177 777758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might indeed be better < 1585969510 837953 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585969635 418325 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way regeneration works; it prevents from destruction only once rather than twice, and the regenerated permanent is tapped, too, which can be meaningful. < 1585969718 977232 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585969847 727853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think creatures should have to tap to block < 1585969884 267738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be easier to track the gamestate, and also reduce the number of unintuitive interactions (like blocking with Prodigal Pyromancer and also tapping it, to damage the creature it's blocking twice) < 1585970091 122107 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think it is unintuitive. < 1585970634 319518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1585971325 593992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Baba is program14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70612&oldid=67809 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+953) 10Updated the interpreter to match the specification < 1585972122 664946 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585974054 814079 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :[iczero] < 1585976156 321589 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1585978299 392130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intramodular Transaction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70613&oldid=66136 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10 < 1585978597 128676 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought making up a keyword ability for Magic: the Gathering where you can play the card from the ante zone (if you own it), at the cost of anteing two cards of your choice from your hand (in addition to any other applicable costs). > 1585978921 987696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70614&oldid=67426 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (-210) 10 < 1585982493 882469 :[iczero]!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :iczero > 1585987777 3457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Nonameremote 5* 10New user account > 1585987828 497122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70615&oldid=70608 5* 03Nonameremote 5* (+109) 10 < 1585987852 813850 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585988002 794953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585989082 3674 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585989877 206880 :abrex!~abrex@151.44.71.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585989900 111592 :abrex!~abrex@151.44.71.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1585989939 900710 :abrex!~abrex@151.44.71.74 PART :#esoteric < 1585990170 900825 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585990213 5009 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd JOIN :#esoteric < 1585990468 95809 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585990707 112242 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585992507 33561 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585992596 835149 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585992596 915693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586001720 996 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzazxjdiokxsaeur JOIN :#esoteric < 1586002423 13859 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586004230 372481 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:9935:9f86:5f53:ab6f JOIN :#esoteric < 1586004339 531018 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I see you filled the gaps for BB(32) < 1586004474 563578 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. so we can consider the 298 proven < 1586004493 758219 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll work on 33 cases next < 1586004512 68792 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if 1812 is true max < 1586004573 429552 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :computations for 34 seemm to blow up (using way obave 32GB) < 1586004726 404931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have not investigated why. < 1586004818 112786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried lowering the depth and then it went through, but it didn't produce the right maximum either (leaving the (\1 1 1 1) (\\2 (2 1)) case to be done) < 1586005057 772328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tbh I was after low-hanging fruits only anyway... so 31 was a very sweet spot to stop in that regard. < 1586005925 161958 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure am curious to see if BB(34) > 5*2^16+6 though :) < 1586006247 147736 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems unlikely... < 1586006254 966650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those busy birds < 1586006311 501120 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy bodies :-) < 1586007889 558249 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can #esoteric recommend any youtube channels? < 1586008258 157252 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1586011611 153679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aeon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70616&oldid=68588 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+24) 10fixed link < 1586014148 801814 :diverger!~div@172.83.44.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586014928 207131 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586014993 115629 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586015200 392501 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:9935:9f86:5f53:ab6f QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586015552 677138 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586016235 391136 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586016986 706991 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586019010 641281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1198 < 1586019016 135464 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1198: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1586019045 175639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiyuYC0D4-AO0AonCfMifPQ hr-Sinfonieorchester – Frankfurt Radio Symphony < 1586020178 462069 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzazxjdiokxsaeur QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586020820 701184 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586020963 700614 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586022343 700104 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586022545 703062 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586023160 616724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70617&oldid=70614 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-11) 10The C Interpreter is not official. The C++, VB.Net, and brainfuck interpreters are. > 1586023187 524365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70618&oldid=70617 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2) 10 < 1586024099 885076 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586024554 356139 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586024568 276510 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1586024973 201677 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1586025031 138521 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586025228 302287 :divergence!~div@38.95.110.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586025243 701642 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586025736 726395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70619&oldid=70611 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Operators */ < 1586025737 396055 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently someone posted to my NNTP about a chess variant called "corona chess", in which pieces only move 1 square distances, and must go home every 10th move. I think there are some problems with that, and it could be improved, though. > 1586025951 261373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70620&oldid=70619 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-19) 10/* Gotos */ > 1586026000 353214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70621&oldid=70620 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+52) 10/* Syntax */ > 1586026224 694075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70622&oldid=70621 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10/* Operators */ < 1586026823 713954 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586027523 257965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586027557 661488 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can set up a NNTP to discuss the card game that ais523 was making, if this is wanted (or ais523 can set it up on their own server, if they have one). < 1586027985 192310 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have some other ideas. One is flags, which is another statistic; a card might either have or not have a flag. I can also think of a possible overspill effect for reconnaissance; one possibility is moving cards from the bottom of your spent pile to the bottom of your regular pile (maybe I mentioned this already). I also have some ideas about layers (this is kind of similar to the layers in Magic: the Gathering, but without any time < 1586028093 11770 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of flags would be fixed by the rules, and which ones are defined is according to what would be needed. I am not so sure I like the rule about max health reductions, although I don't know what would be better. < 1586028320 73780 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The layers might be: [I] Deleting aspects. [II] Adding aspects. [III] Changing flags; if the same number of effects add and remove the same flag, the flag remains unchanged, otherwise whichever is more wins. [IV] Numerical effects (addition and subtraction of constant or calculated values, as described by the existing rules). [V] Adding manoeuvres. [VI] Deleting manoeuvres. < 1586028349 715077 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aspects can see the changes made by previous layers but not changes made by the current layer. Later layers override earlier layers. < 1586028571 11747 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If an effect alters a manoeuvre without adding or deleting it, it is treated as though it adds the altered one and deletes the old one, and is treated as a layer V effect for the purpose of determining what values it can see. This means that layer VI effects will see both the original and altered manoeuvre.) < 1586029689 124591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is to use some computer programming language to implement these rules, perhaps in Haskell. > 1586030549 441548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03GigoG 5* 10New user account > 1586030917 521216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70623&oldid=70615 5* 03GigoG 5* (+165) 10/* Introductions */ > 1586030987 415107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70624&oldid=70623 5* 03GigoG 5* (+120) 10/* Introductions */ > 1586031056 475261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70625&oldid=70624 5* 03GigoG 5* (-52) 10/* Introductions */ < 1586031598 701667 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586031617 645130 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Client Quit < 1586031656 5941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586031668 848331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did have an idea about layers, although it might restrict the cards you could make too much < 1586031678 273001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was to design the cards so that the layer sequence never mattered > 1586031773 902768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Magenta14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70626&oldid=30997 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+230) 10Now you too can read about bear food < 1586032041 56216 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I thought of adding the layers for the opposite reason, since the lack of timestamps makes some restrictions anyways, this layer system I suggest would add more flexibility; there are some things that are immutable anyways, with or without layers, and some effects which don't work anyways. I think the current system you have doesn't work at all with effects other than adjusting numerical values anyways. > 1586032440 269764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arbol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70627&oldid=25343 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+78) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586034095 490232 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586035811 670551 :ap0calyps3!~gius@195.154.101.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586035876 869834 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586035888 15949 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586036043 153868 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586036825 312940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1586037758 170252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AttoASM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70628&oldid=33532 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-104) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586037836 438817 :ap0calyps3!~gius@195.154.101.133 PART :#esoteric < 1586042732 7385 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586043475 382927 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbumsiampmrcryxz JOIN :#esoteric < 1586044323 749707 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds