< 1586304298 200791 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586304308 134368 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586305239 440230 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586305440 14125 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586306190 910308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parenthesis Hell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70709&oldid=18413 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+4) 10Linked to inspiration, Lisp > 1586306468 794747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70710&oldid=70475 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+80) 10/* Syntax */ Yes // is Integer divison > 1586306509 768072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70711&oldid=70710 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-86) 10/* FizzBuzz */ > 1586306786 82896 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lisp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70712&oldid=70114 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+430) 10/* List processing */ Added section on pronunciations and composed cars and cdrs < 1586307098 959884 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some common sense can set me straight: I'm building a service. bit of a "high-class" version of LambdaMOO with an economy attached to the middle of it. in it, I need to be able to run user-submitted code. arbitrary user-submitted code. < 1586307150 303636 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code needs to be sandboxed. so, I turn to "popular" tools. node.js springs to mind. seems alright enough. I have a couple of things like a job queue, an SQL ORM, websocket support... < 1586307178 867292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at a crossroads between two options. do I use something like a Forth, or PostScript. or do I use sandboxed JavaScript. < 1586307201 73608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586307228 75047 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured I'd first ask the esolangs channel because, why not. esolangs are kind of at the opposite end of the UX spectrum. < 1586307265 899640 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'd do some sort of language-independent sandboxing instead < 1586307300 148374 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I'd take that route too. but there's a lot of variables associated with that. < 1586307301 922447 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, language-independent wouldn't be enough < 1586307327 167012 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind. user code runs per-command. < 1586307335 964488 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Lua? < 1586307346 352328 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no good way to do memory limits. < 1586307355 64156 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or CPU time measurements. < 1586307378 86200 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine 10k+ users, all frothing at the chance to knock your machines out of memory. < 1586307474 498211 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essentially a choice between creating a slightly user-hostile environment, sacrificing user experience for simplicity and control, vs. using V8 isolates via an npm package called `isolated-vm`. < 1586307778 480172 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586307807 163519 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for something where there's a separate sandboxed process, and some sort of API to communicate with the main server process < 1586308112 966092 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm also discounting what people did for the DCPU-16 or whatever that was. < 1586308157 169379 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a game that never even released. < 1586308426 392064 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have an entire virtual machine with its own instruction set, but that's definitely a bit overkill < 1586308460 160262 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have some prior work that does this. < 1586308515 521529 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm torn. it brings up questions as to why JavaScript grew to be so popular, and whether an application's extensability mechanism will be used in spite of its current popularity. < 1586308838 638833 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be careful if using the sandboxing in Node.js; use Object.create(null) to create the sandbox object, and don't put in any objects that come from outside of the sandbox. < 1586308853 888265 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be using https://github.com/laverdet/isolated-vm < 1586308860 133168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript is popular because it's pretty much only programming language all popular web browsers support < 1586308908 179689 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, PostScript might work (in -dSAFER mode, which is now the default; you can also use writable systemdict to delete some entries that you don't want before locking it; for example, you probably don't need any of the graphics operations or device operations), and making your own variant of Forth could also work. < 1586308935 582805 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also use other implementations of JavaScript, and write your own interface to it. < 1586308979 157996 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many other possibilities too. < 1586308998 925903 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: right. so it's popular based on the strength of its userbase, because its userbase is derived from people that use a web browser, and people that want to create things that fit in a web browser. < 1586309024 528241 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in order to do memory limits and CPU time limits, you would do something else, such as setrlimit. < 1586309072 901047 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also, as mentioned, Lua, and also SQL, even. And actually there are many other possibilities too. < 1586309257 22018 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which possibilities will people actually tolerate, is the question. < 1586309300 951943 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think different people may tolerate different things, perhaps. < 1586309337 147883 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think my users want to do stack juggling in their heads. < 1586309360 260584 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that other programming languages can be compiled to might be helpful, maybe. < 1586309372 859736 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking into WASM, but it's very immature. < 1586309520 175108 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might use a VM such as Glulx, although as far as I know none of the other programming languages listed can be compiled as Glulx code (and you may need your own I/O system too; this is possible if needed) < 1586311385 305973 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586313999 411547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALIMBIHNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70713&oldid=70209 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+94) 10Add cats, because everyone loves cats > 1586314282 513787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck.NET14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70714&oldid=61456 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+82) 10Some categories > 1586314359 51376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Contest14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70715&oldid=56236 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+37) 10Added category (even though it doesn't exist) > 1586314409 400672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Contest 114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70716&oldid=68696 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+38) 10Added a nonexistent category > 1586314487 361465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Contest 214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70717&oldid=56237 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+37) 10Added a category that as yet doesn't exist > 1586314632 538592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Sharp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70718&oldid=49987 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+18) 10Even though the language is gone, a date category is still helpful for the sake of history > 1586314726 131518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Substitutor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70719&oldid=51660 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+76) 10Added a couple categories < 1586314937 547440 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the FOR command in Pascal have something like the STEP in BASIC? > 1586315110 489217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck derivatives with nontrivial computational class proofs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70720&oldid=58333 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+20) 10Added Proofs category > 1586315140 831866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck in Python14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70721&oldid=57063 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+28) 10Added implementation category < 1586315141 317850 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1586315170 748019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck in Python14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70722&oldid=70721 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1) 10Fixed Implementations category > 1586315250 483438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70723&oldid=53416 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+81) 10Added some categories > 1586316339 992969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aperture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70724&oldid=50609 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1349) 10Unblanked this page with a new joke language of my own invention > 1586316476 473927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70725&oldid=70045 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+107) 10Added (re-added?) Aperture > 1586316647 350089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:IFcoltransG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70726&oldid=70005 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+116) 10Added Aperture lang > 1586316669 634428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:IFcoltransG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70727&oldid=70726 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (-3) 10/* Published Esoteric Languages */ removed extraneous word < 1586317646 68353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: look that up in http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Loops/For_with_a_specified_step < 1586317927 528631 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, they say it doesn't have it > 1586318025 328737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Armok14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70728&oldid=61332 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+69) 10Added some categories > 1586318045 394735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Armok14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70729&oldid=70728 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (-2) 10What is up with my spelling today? > 1586318235 485986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cactusi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70730&oldid=68799 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+43) 10Added categories < 1586319655 224936 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1586322297 953589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Parenthesis Hell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70731&oldid=69951 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+327) 10/* Blog post */ new section < 1586323136 847420 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e5a1:36c2:1473:2da1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586323463 867102 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586323739 840315 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586325372 918600 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586325549 387129 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586325629 838162 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586325939 328046 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586326153 235234 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586326657 8679 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586326722 669764 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586326752 242576 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586326788 823648 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 the algorithm is instant. the BXn one I haven't published isn't. < 1586326789 121840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586326949 854260 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ais532 the state size makes the generator maybe go a bit faster, and allows some room for vectorization. < 1586326950 65843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1586327037 170094 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586328289 388393 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586328299 636539 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry but my IRC client is going nuts < 1586328331 718476 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais532 the state size makes the generator maybe go a bit faster, and allows some room for vectorization. < 1586328332 39281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586328477 634183 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a guess when pokemon numbers will exceed three digits and when pokemon numbers will exceed sixteen bits? < 1586331714 34632 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're asking me => I don't know anything about pokemon(s) < 1586332780 650240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: exceed three digits => probably when the first pair of generation 9 pokemon games are released, in 2 or 3 years. sixteen bits => never, the video game franchise won't last that long. < 1586332925 695311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: however, it's possible that the National Pokedex numbering scheme will be abandonned some day, so there will be pokemon with no clear number in it. there are already variant pokemons with no separate numeric indexes. < 1586332966 803499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586333870 636055 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming they are using unsigned 16 bit and they will introduce 200 pokemon each year, it will happen 323 years after exceeding three digits < 1586333881 303439 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would also expect that to be unlikely < 1586334160 381091 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586334273 709002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( s/introduce/release/ ) < 1586334477 533862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :into the wild! < 1586334600 201677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do have to capture them, don't you? < 1586334847 817232 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric -> welcome to the world of pokemon & mtg fans, mathematicans and crazy harp tuners < 1586334872 903304 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single of these topics is something I don't understand :p < 1586334874 923112 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone maybe have to but I’m not interested, let them go forth and multip… er, live in peace < 1586334887 770671 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^ < 1586334896 331203 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: crazy harp tuners? < 1586334910 632817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: forth is another big mystery to me ;) < 1586334912 169887 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?q harp < 1586334914 470238 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?q? No such file or directory < 1586334917 505364 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`q harp < 1586334918 436025 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280) hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps < 1586334922 204466 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this < 1586334928 322287 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1586334948 39850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: you forgot the punsters < 1586334974 24475 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I... :p < 1586335004 515050 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: erm I retcon I actually meant “go fourth”, in light of harp tuning it makes more sense. Then they may go fifth and maybe a seventh and them bam microtonality and mass extinction < 1586335029 805097 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? harp < 1586335031 165587 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :harp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586335041 627002 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hairpin < 1586335042 966236 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :hairpin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586335049 442363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? harpoon < 1586335052 263516 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :harpoon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586335055 427608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1586335090 901570 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : why jbot died < 1586335090 989799 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kspalaiologos: int-e killed it so that you don't spam the channel :-) < 1586335094 353865 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite so far xD < 1586335131 369165 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: The fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the major lift, the baffled king composing hallelujah? < 1586335160 907057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: ais523 is the harp tuner, the crazy are some other ones of us #esoteric members < 1586335189 298623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? alice < 1586335190 563230 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alice doesn't want to go among mad people. < 1586335193 537120 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, I actually didn’t know the lyrics so this is a coincidence < 1586335221 168042 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I remember < 1586335232 114968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though also there are far too many songs about songwriting < 1586335255 890880 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, are there that much paintings about painting? < 1586335267 251170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know this one because of Shrek. < 1586335270 352224 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sculptures of sculpting < 1586335300 90079 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paintings_about_painting < 1586335306 363338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or esolangs abou… oh < 1586335314 758805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are paintings about collecting paintings < 1586335319 71678 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: thanks :DD < 1586335323 260151 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawing_Hands < 1586335324 128305 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :o < 1586335329 344824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically reader's digest paintings, so that kings can show their rich painting collection to other people < 1586335332 323356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious < 1586335335 655511 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the hands I do know! < 1586335354 618081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know many sculptures of sculpting < 1586335395 910503 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sculpture about sculpting would be hard to make < 1586335414 907710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :movies about movies < 1586335415 979097 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I'm oriented in art, lol < 1586335424 50649 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : the crazy are some other ones of us => is that property decidable? < 1586335425 130848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tv shows about television < 1586335425 442206 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, there's just too many of these, lol < 1586335449 225809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :articles about journalism < 1586335465 55871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :observations about observations < 1586335476 500290 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does it stop? < 1586335504 66089 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :human culture is too obsessed with itself ;) < 1586335524 855960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: the parliament building has a bunch of small statues decorating the top of indoor columns, each depicting a different profession. they're pretty nice, but there's a surprising lack of photos of them on the internet, so I don't recall whether there's a sculptor. I think there's a painter. < 1586335553 689080 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's fascinating < 1586335782 411802 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a resource on binary lambda calculus that will explain it to me like I'm five? < 1586335827 580654 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : where does it stop? => that’s precisely the question < 1586335892 992344 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :five is 101, so yes, no and yes^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W < 1586335910 244474 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright so from what I can understand, one can simply create a lambda and execute it on a certain bit < 1586335927 627362 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: maybe the missing part is de Bruijn indices which are used there < 1586335939 567621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 5 is 0000011100111001110011100111010 ;) < 1586335942 131376 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1x0 construct lets you grab nth in the depth parameter? < 1586335980 359198 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: one can simply create a lambda and execute it on a certain bit => ah, not quite that. This is just plain lambda calculus, just expressed via bit strings < 1586335992 722657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index may help. < 1586335996 414494 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I' < 1586335998 455526 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m reading this < 1586336006 871998 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on this image attached 2 is reffering to the first lambda < 1586336023 355348 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it skips two terms, right? < 1586336056 950493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: it skips the green one; the blue and orange lambdas aren't in scope, so the red one is next < 1586336062 468314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: sculptures of sculpture, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sculptures_of_sculptors ; https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Carpeaux_au_travail is a good example, it shows a human holding a statuette and a tool in hands < 1586336062 651147 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay I’ll go eat something already) < 1586336072 306732 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1586336081 72882 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it, theoretically < 1586336088 533808 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I can't see how can it be useful < 1586336089 358110 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: this may make more sense if you draw the term as a tree < 1586336092 327077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Monument_%C3%A0_Emmanuel_Fr%C3%A9miet_by_Henri_Greber_(1913) might be an even better example < 1586336128 9697 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much did it take to squeeze a brainfuck interpreter into this < 1586336141 618718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: (a tree where lambdas have one child, and applications have two children... then you can resolve the indices by walking up the tree) < 1586336149 137986 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: thanks too < 1586336149 721881 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1586336156 441500 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to understand some examples < 1586336201 79063 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can this language have I/O < 1586336215 752904 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just outputs the final list/whatever? < 1586336238 847270 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass in a (lazy) list of bits (or bytes) and produce a similar list of outputs as a result < 1586336240 237878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it may be clearer if trying to write some functions on those terms, like substitution or something < 1586336259 633211 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one can supply input to the program, right < 1586336282 983498 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can see, this language seems to have the same problem of O(n) complexity when storing constants < 1586336292 721995 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this five you've posted is absurdly long < 1586336297 455119 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fundamentally you'll have to understand how data is encoded... that will probably take a while to become fluent with. < 1586336361 754116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: It's only that big because it's the full Church numeral (\f\x. f (f (f (f (f x))))) < 1586336409 739227 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Outputting much more than 300 bits in Perl will land your computer in swap hell.) => lmao < 1586336419 252637 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does blc consume this much memory? < 1586336482 498827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asymptotically the program size doesn't matter... at a few hundred bits you can write decoders for much more efficient data formats. < 1586336533 755893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. I suppose golfed blc code doesn't tend to be very friendly to garbage collection. < 1586336635 500363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh primes. The underlying algorithm uses a quadratic amount of memory I think (and the constant factor isn't small either). < 1586336650 245040 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: try reading https://tromp.github.io/cl/Binary_lambda_calculus.html < 1586336767 878455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quadratic memory usage is a result of golfing; the constant factor could be improved by a better VM I suppose. < 1586336840 396570 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i still need to fix the proof of the W2 rule. It's not true that B^V has (W^V)^+ W^V in head position < 1586336912 122376 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other observations still hold < 1586336947 180518 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would suffice to show that W^V is strict < 1586336995 350553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I'll take your word for it (still mulling over the problem myself) < 1586337008 619355 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so haven't looked at what your proposed generalization is) < 1586338303 712376 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586338393 807793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586338482 912859 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586338499 810865 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586338561 11950 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586338562 142798 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586339128 796036 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1586339668 130885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cactusi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70732&oldid=70730 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+0) 10correct (I hope) year category < 1586340759 800422 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586341391 997645 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: see latest commit for proof fix and added conjecture on which proof rests < 1586341806 399230 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586343374 304497 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586344808 511563 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4 < 1586345329 831833 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1586346671 391148 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586347348 781922 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586347395 779682 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586350072 990090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586350130 449121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais532 < 1586350132 819853 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1586350135 701603 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1586350138 291603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1586350177 700191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mroman asked 5y 11m 9d 17h 22m 55s ago: can you do a "programming languages with no Hello world" list? ← I wonder if mroman is still interested in this < 1586350200 280466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my nick had been correctly spelled the first time, there wouldn't have been the ~6-year wait < 1586350256 665652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do you have a guess when pokemon numbers will exceed three digits and when pokemon numbers will exceed sixteen bits? ← there's a lot of evidence that Game Freak is planning to abandon the National Pokédex numbering scheme, so it's likely that the numbering scheme will change before either of those benchmarks are reached < 1586350412 110108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman I think most esolangs don't have a hello world, in many cases because they aren't capable of producing text output; making a list of esolangs which can hello world but don't have one would likely have to be done manually and be very time consuming < 1586350412 391724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586353333 482107 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586353400 975466 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586354776 529335 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petition to start calling categories monoidoid (by analogy with semigroupoid, groupoid) > 1586355829 536574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03EvoEvoEvoEvoLution 5* 10New user account < 1586356676 308689 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1586356697 645649 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo > 1586356726 169481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Neg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70733&oldid=65727 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Superpositions */ fix typo < 1586357127 494658 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you doing? > 1586357163 210244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70734&oldid=70371 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+76) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1586357181 395209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70735&oldid=70386 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10/* Eso2D */ Added Eso2D > 1586357237 71364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70736&oldid=70735 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10/* XENBLN */ Updating > 1586357472 668891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70737&oldid=70736 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+115) 10/* DINAC */ > 1586357548 386380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70738&oldid=70737 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* Implementations */ > 1586358257 879909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70739&oldid=69838 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10/* Resources */ < 1586358711 776061 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586358753 718014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70740 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1256) 102D version of PlusOrMinus > 1586358808 669517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70741&oldid=70738 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+327) 10/* PlusOrMinus 2 */ < 1586358862 483755 :kiedtl!~kiedtl@2601:148:280:4a0::c71a JOIN :#esoteric > 1586358971 291184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70742&oldid=70740 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10/* Commands */ > 1586358982 234506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70743&oldid=70742 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Commands */ > 1586359850 969792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Css Script10]] to [[Css script]]: fix capitalization > 1586359966 422279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70746&oldid=70744 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-19) 10formatting > 1586360447 593650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cubically14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70747&oldid=52173 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+87) 10added repo link < 1586360519 924633 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao what, css script? > 1586361912 185840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07D1ffe7e45e14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70748&oldid=62325 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586362037 612441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the css script website appears to be a dead link already < 1586362053 620786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the repo is up < 1586362140 633773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be a primitive-recursive language with a large number of primitives for graphical output < 1586362148 281997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what relationship it has to CSS < 1586362214 868164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, I think it supports recursion, which would make it TC given bignums < 1586362220 553680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. you can implement Blindfolded Arithmetic) < 1586362256 561409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm < 1586362271 814026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has any conditionals and I'm not convinced that the arithmetic allows two variables as arguments < 1586362480 250487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, looking at the implementation, does seem to allow two variables, so yes, you can do Blindfolder Arithmetic < 1586362499 858017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the relationship to CSS appears to be that the implementation's output is in CSS < 1586362567 59924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the output is hardcoded to go into the file C:/Users/Dell/Desktop/entry/git/css-script-candy/css_script/output.html, which strikes me as a fairly awkward API < 1586362606 410111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the output appears to actually be HTML+CSS, not pure CSS < 1586362777 881923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little disappointing, I was secretly hoping it would be CSS with a .html extension < 1586362962 60569 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but doesn't the division operator do floating point division? < 1586362968 718521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't it use floating point numbers? < 1586363001 446324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's fixed size machine floats, then you can't do too much blindfolded arithmetic < 1586363109 90756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1586363114 870058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you could do something using floating-point errors < 1586363114 922527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, it is floor division, but it's still machine floating point < 1586363122 583792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it really were float division) < 1586363123 252481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit floating point < 1586363132 917979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would still be sub-TC due to the floats only having finitely many values < 1586363152 847004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Python has arbitrary-precision integers < 1586363162 603408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what happens if you add one of those to the floored result of a division < 1586363203 159650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :python has arbitrary precision integers, but this impl doesn't do arithmetic on those < 1586363229 776490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ/css-script/blob/master/css_script/main.py#L322 < 1586363249 835766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :float is the built-in floating point type, which uses 64-bit machine floats < 1586363273 754884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless of course there's some trick elsewhere in that code < 1586363286 510065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to use isdigit() to parse constants < 1586363358 669848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so constants are any strings consisting entirely of digits < 1586363384 175420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think variables will be stored as Python integers throughout < 1586363402 248678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless rand/sine/cos/abssine are used < 1586363420 350299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, no < 1586363420 815527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :was probably posted today to the wiki because it has a function called passover: https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ/css-script/blob/master/css_script/main.py#L351 < 1586363434 870045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you assign a constant to a variable the value seems to be stored as a string (?) < 1586363452 689192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1586363467 69550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses floats to do arithmetic, even though it uses ints to store the result of transcendental operations, and strings to store constants < 1586363481 635076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(constant numbers) < 1586363526 691318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, sub-TC because each program can only have finitely many variables < 1586363539 650779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it uses int to store the input of the transcendental constants, and yes that's weird < 1586363545 312683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, ints are for the /argument/ to the transcendental operation < 1586363549 369541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* operations < 1586363559 1210 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586363567 410399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot refute the hypothesis that types in this language were just picked at random until it appeared to work < 1586363612 334484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said this seems ot be the sort of interpreter where the author just adds the features they need at the time, and they may edit more features into it later as they want to write more programs, so it might just eventually grow more powerful by the time < 1586363658 372090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586363664 887446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they'll even get the domain name they want! < 1586363790 970880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, they claim to be a web developer < 1586363840 621744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they also claim to do "IoT" and "Machine learning" and "Desktop development" so it might just be a fashionable keyword for the cv < 1586363859 252217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're a web developer, just probably not a very good one < 1586364104 308531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has an introductory programming book at https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ/Think-Python-Fr/blob/master/all_in_one.md , let me see if that has code that looks better < 1586364417 889646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue I note is that the indentation is wrong < 1586364424 335413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, considering that this is Python, is something of an issue < 1586364441 755641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always, but sometimes < 1586364534 205878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1586364544 659270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a translation of a book by someone else < 1586364555 315620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"traduction du livre: Think Python, How To Think Like A Computer Scientist d'Allan Downey" < 1586364573 234596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently unfinished, because the formatting goes crazy towards the end < 1586364690 380278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the indentation of some code got lost somewhere in the conversions < 1586364793 189391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably because it's in progress < 1586364851 959556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this helps confirm my belief that indentation-sensitivity is too fragile for a serious programming language < 1586364859 859631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because code may be conveyed in formats that don't retain indentation well < 1586364995 558542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Collect a sequence of code points that are ASCII digits from input given position, and interpret the resulting sequence as a base-ten integer. < 1586365010 156893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes to a huge amount of trouble to specify everything in great detail, but forgets to specify the endianness here < 1586365016 617601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should submit a bug report < 1586365058 118480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently -0 is a valid nonnegative integer in HTML, which is interesting as nonnegative integers are defined with a different parser from integers < 1586365082 355834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait, it isn't < 1586365093 738540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser for nonnegative integers will accept it, but you aren't allowed to include a minus sign in the input < 1586365098 506131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first 9 chapters are formatted correctly and the code indentation looks fine in them < 1586365101 890465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, a hyphen-minus sign < 1586365153 500007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the endianness of the fractional part of a float /is/ specified, even though the endianness of the integer part isn't < 1586365177 260606 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586365284 659128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where is that from? < 1586365371 56646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading the HTML standard < 1586365384 542265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I won't get through the whole thing < 1586365389 675024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specific page is https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/common-microsyntaxes.html > 1586365454 77180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello today I am a unicorn14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70749 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2592) 10+[[Hello today I am a unicorn]] > 1586365457 946924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70750&oldid=70609 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+33) 10+[[Hello today I am a unicorn]] > 1586365461 539697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70751&oldid=70591 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+33) 10+[[Hello today I am a unicorn]] > 1586366028 504243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello today I am a unicorn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70752&oldid=70749 5* 03Ais523 5* (+524) 10explain why this is TC; remove reference list because there aren't any > 1586366535 8963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Great Spell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70753&oldid=69567 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (-1) 10 > 1586366597 19001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Great Spell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70754&oldid=70753 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+71) 10 > 1586366700 94949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello today I am a unicorn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70755&oldid=70752 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10fix typo > 1586366831 68416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Great Spell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70756&oldid=70754 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+17) 10 > 1586366947 89863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70757&oldid=49066 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+43) 10/* Syntax */ < 1586366947 347870 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1586367015 261238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70758&oldid=70757 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+29) 10/* Commands/Moves */ > 1586367080 962107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70759&oldid=70758 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+75) 10/* Pokemon */ < 1586367358 51395 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586367646 900688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : Petition to start calling categories monoidoid (by analogy with semigroupoid, groupoid) => yesss < 1586368322 867677 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no big secret we can do some calculations with affine geometry, dipping an affine space into a one-more-dimensional linear space and treating vectors from this (now) subspace as points and vectors parallel to it as point translation vectors. Introducing exterior algebra, one can even join two points into a line with using plain exterior product ∧ on them. But one can’t join two coplanar lines this way, as they would wedge to zero, b < 1586368322 976300 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :eing factorizable as a∧b and a∧c for some a, b, c. This boils down to the question, how can I calculate the union of two subspaces in an arbitrary linear space, using exterior algebra elements as representations of subspaces? < 1586368388 229506 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also intersections, but we can just dualize a working way to do union after finding it) < 1586368509 122273 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read a bit things about “geometric algebra”, which is just an applied real Clifford algebra theory, and I hadn’t found a description of this failure to do meet. They seem to simply take ∧ and I can’t believe no one needed to compute a union of the sort I mentioned < 1586368535 795596 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is suspicious > 1586369147 572754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOGO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70760&oldid=30155 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+29) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586370028 73597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ayacc < 1586370030 158365 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc > 1586370070 577669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70761&oldid=70572 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+121) 10/* Languages */ > 1586370216 846336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70762&oldid=70761 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10/* Possibly useful regexes */ > 1586370530 551453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70763&oldid=70711 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* FizzBuzz */ Fixed some errors > 1586370936 930985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70764&oldid=70763 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+287) 10 > 1586370990 157530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70765&oldid=70764 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* FizzBuzz */ > 1586371170 989062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70766&oldid=69631 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* MineFriff */ Fixing link to ><> and brainf > 1586371809 171499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh400/How to write quines14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70767&oldid=69424 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Initial draft */ typo fixed < 1586372851 366727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is suspicious => ah now I at least see why those linear meet and join need to evaluate to zero in the unfortunate cases. If the orientation of the result cannot be determined uniquely from orientations of the arguments, then zero is the only sensible option. Maybe I need to find another framework for affine subspace operations, then < 1586372867 533928 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunate, unfortunate < 1586374204 853360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogy with monoidoid and monoid, what is a mon? < 1586374369 589091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mon is abbreviation for Monday < 1586374447 841221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that works category-theoretically < 1586374732 479057 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night. < 1586374736 397897 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1586374791 622540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70768&oldid=70743 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+346) 10/* Auto-formatting */ > 1586375119 790022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dc14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70769&oldid=55321 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586375149 804644 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I rekindle my interest in Tcl? It's a ridiculously unsafe language if used wrong, and whenever I write Tcl code I invariably end up with a memory leak because of fundamental limitations to its GC > 1586375404 176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DcScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70770&oldid=69670 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586375423 740977 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's incredibly tempting. < 1586375883 26697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much Tcl < 1586375896 504116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks intruiging but I've never had a sufficiently compelling use case for it to be worth learning it < 1586375904 693004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, I did learn enough to add it to the polyglot) < 1586376097 758379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Eggdrop was scripted most commonly in Tcl. < 1586376104 905566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why the check of ayacc, incidentally? < 1586376106 438792 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the building of SQLite and its documentation is using Tcl, I think. < 1586376110 385430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can currently work on it a bit more freely than usual < 1586376113 564720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't had a need to < 1586376276 933574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: someone on IRC mentioned that they made a different custom yacc for some project they need, plus a lexer to go with it < 1586376296 781708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://repo.hu/projects/byaccic/ with a push parser (stackless) < 1586376322 922938 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, I think the coding for generating source files should be written in C and/or shell scripts, the coding for documentation generation should be written in PostScript, and the testing codes should be both Tcl and C.) < 1586376329 541115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they searched for "ayacc" on google and found a different yacc that generates ada code or some such < 1586376339 265369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Ada-France/ayacc < 1586376344 36870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the name is not unique enough < 1586376390 765008 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should have called it aiyacc < 1586376429 250871 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things are going to have the same name due to not knowing that is something else called that, I will think, and other reasons too < 1586376465 468976 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586376467 806895 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another alternative to yacc is Lemon < 1586376485 89426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we did look at that, but we agreed with ais523 that we don't like its interface < 1586376510 189321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been planning a more radical parser framework of my own, separate from ayacc (which exists to run pre-existing yacc programs) < 1586376533 194465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no... not a framework. I hate frameworks < 1586376543 887078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are always the worst software to actually work with < 1586376544 12329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a framework in /that/ sense, probably at least < 1586376553 453851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is to combine the parse and lex phases via allowing the use of a state machine (effectively a regular expression) to do lookahead < 1586376591 39995 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you do not like Lemon, then you do not have to use it, although I like the features of Lemon (although the documentation for Lemon now says that apparently Bison also has some of these features too, so it will work too). < 1586376592 943471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that if the grammar requires unlimited lookahead to function correctly (which it will in many cases), you will still need two passes over the input, although this time the first one goes backwards and the second one goes forwards < 1586376606 223072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which specific features do you like? < 1586376639 534536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other basic idea is, instead of running user-supplied code to split the input into data structures, to use optimized general-purpose data structures that are more efficient than linked trees < 1586376667 530850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this means they can't be changed in-place, rather code that manipulates them works by treewalking an existing tree and creating a new tree as it does so < 1586376688 318594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to take advantage of vectorisation and memory locality < 1586376701 277435 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you can have multiple parsers. < 1586376719 818855 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tokenizer calling the parser is also useful for some programs. < 1586376744 725489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple parsers are trivial to implement even in yacc < 1586376755 86262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by adding an extra token at the start to choose between them < 1586376761 744709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ayacc allows a more direct API for that < 1586376768 848640 :Maris!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586376784 875275 :Maris!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohi < 1586376799 26656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Maris < 1586376819 330386 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The %fallback command is also useful for some programs, such as SQLite, and so are some of the other commands. < 1586377034 699692 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, OK. I should look at the ayacc, although it is just a 403 error apparently because it requires darcs to work (although maybe 406 is better, or perhaps is better for it to download the files anyways, such as in a tape archive) < 1586377241 504443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can try to create a tarball for you, give me a moment < 1586377314 430419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: try http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz < 1586377341 114196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it will unpack into a folder called "mainline" < 1586377347 108140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually ayacc though < 1586377406 828702 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I downloaded that. < 1586377407 827015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fun, that's what everyone complains about. I just pasted it temporarily to https://dpaste.org/qorS/raw though. < 1586377429 982995 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586377466 614517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ayacc < 1586377467 951190 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1586377485 689853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1586377488 393758 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1586377495 302314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no wait < 1586377497 875795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rules of wisdom < 1586377499 172088 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless essential for the entry‘s humor, \ they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation < 1586377528 300306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) . < 1586377530 740781 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) . < 1586377538 377823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the pastebin thing is only temporary, I think < 1586377540 86212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the proper punctuation? or do I double-quote the first url? < 1586377541 11380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it won't automatically update < 1586377545 243112 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should fix the error message so that it tells you to use darcs or to download the .tar.gz file. < 1586377549 841924 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I said I temporarily pasted it there < 1586377563 623328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, I mean the NH4 pastebin < 1586377567 739798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1586377572 699887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I believe the proper quotes for a URL are <> < 1586377584 932795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's either double quotes or angle brackets, and I prefer double quotes < 1586377586 362334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure on the proper quotes for a shell command, but I like «» because anything else seems potentially ambiguous < 1586377599 230817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use parens for a shell command because that's actual shell syntax < 1586377631 79110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) or a snapshot from "http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz". < 1586377634 474892 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) or a snapshot from "http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz". < 1586377656 20757 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586377699 848124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, parens are plausible, they'd be no-ops in most circumstances < 1586377712 133439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not in cases where the command would run differently in a subshell < 1586377724 575934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between «cd /tmp» and «(cd /tmp)» < 1586377997 919759 :Maris!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586378026 841519 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586378357 514849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure it even makes sense to embed a shell command that doesn't run in a subshell into non-shell text. is there a shared library version of the shell that can run in other processes to do that? < 1586378375 832954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for that cd thing < 1586378492 198788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you clearly haven't come across /bin/cd yet < 1586378509 808174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly that one was a joke < 1586378520 799471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can embed perl or python that way and call their chdir functions and it affects the whole process < 1586378533 269933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, if you're giving someone instructions < 1586378543 854347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense to intersperse shell commands and text, doesn't it? < 1586378554 281091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it can make sense < 1586378589 936281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone made a literate shell syntax somewhere, where every line not prefixed with a > is a comment that is used only when you typeset the program < 1586378612 152338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the embeddable shell library sounds more esoteric < 1586378701 901376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do languages have their own literate syntaxes, anyway? < 1586378720 150254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be more sensible to have a document format designed for literal programming, that can compile into a programming language? < 1586378726 768419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't care about which one you're using < 1586378761 949760 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is such a generic preprocessor I think, but the problem is that a lot of languages use most ascii characters, so there's no single quote format that's convenient for everything < 1586378777 999405 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586378821 288008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, prefixing lines with > is pretty convenient for everything < 1586378856 861614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't possibly clash with anything in the program, the only potential clashes would be with the /document/ < 1586378870 105300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but then you want to refer to code snippets in the documentation part, and that's what gets ugly in them, as well as in all the javadoc/doxygen syntaxes too < 1586378890 847824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, without them running? < 1586378892 82155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some preprocessors allow you to change some or all of the magic characters, see https://esolangs.org/wiki/SIMPLE_(preprocessor) < 1586378911 344740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to contradict the idea of literate programming a little < 1586378916 459742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usually yes, but I think CWEB even has some preprocessor macro thing that it can insert into code blocks or something < 1586378930 781831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I realised that POD is a sort of mix between literate and illiterate programming < 1586378937 530188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how this works, I don't really like literate programming so I never use it < 1586378938 908321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having a comment marker for non-code, or a code marker for code < 1586378952 634954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :having comment blocks and comment headers, doxygen-like, that's fine < 1586378952 673058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has separators that are placed between code and non-code (and vice versa) < 1586378965 223576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having a preprocessor can be interesting too < 1586378979 362357 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, as the topic was about parsing a while back, how often do you encounter regex libraries supporting streams of arbitrary objects and not just characters? and maybe regexes for tree-like structures, do those exist at all? < 1586379025 928383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former definitely should exist, but maybe doesn't < 1586379038 56036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what properties do these arbitrary objects have that distinguishes them from characters? < 1586379040 431262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually thinking of a preprocessor variant of Consumer Society too. It needs three magic characters, but you can't find three convenient characters that work in all programming languages, so you'd use eg. `@$ in C but `?$ in python or something < 1586379067 101081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think `$~ in rust < 1586379085 734300 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWEB also has the commands to specify if the next section is a named program block, unnamed program block, or documentation; you don't need any prefix for each line. WEB does more preprocessing though, in order to implement things that Pascal doesn't do by itself (although some modern implementations will do those things automatically). < 1586379087 897432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are regex libraries that support arbitrary byte streams < 1586379098 335581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't @ unused in Rust at the moment? < 1586379102 434197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1586379108 675655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it got recycled? < 1586379108 895344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @ is used for bind patterns like in haskell < 1586379111 770477 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you like parser combinators receiving arbitrary tokens and not just characters, and how much useful do you think is parser-driven tokenization (when the source can be tokenized differently based on what parser expects) < 1586379153 306885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: parser-driven tokenization is required for some languages, if you want to have a separate parser and lexer < 1586379163 439180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think combining the parser and lexer is a more interesting goal < 1586379165 688010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in if let x@C(y,z) = t { # matches if t has the constructor C, and binds fresh variables x, y, z < 1586379181 768245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is used for metaprogramming though, also like in haskell < 1586379197 569640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser-driven tokenization is really confusing, though, so it's normally avoided where it isn't required < 1586379208 641232 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Python has byte stream regexes too, though there’s a strange issue with named group names (non-ASCII names allowed for some reason) < 1586379220 586197 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PCRE supports byte streams (it can also use UTF-8 though). < 1586379222 342784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example of where it's used in practice is parsing precedence overrides in C-INTERCAL < 1586379266 839341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMPLE allows you to override each of its magic characters, but that doesn't help you too much if you want convenient syntax, because it has like a dozen magic characters < 1586379280 116321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : parser-driven tokenization is really confusing, though, so it's normally avoided where it isn't required => I was afraid that would be the case, and that’s why it came to mind to ask, yeah < 1586379281 426065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also hard to use for other reasons < 1586379318 170854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's worth mentioning that INTERCAL's grammar is actually ambiguous < 1586379329 175909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could definitely claim that it's esoteric, but there is a little evidence that David wrote it to preprocess some HTML files that are non-esoteric originally, so it's not pure esoteric in purpose < 1586379333 609878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INTERCAL-72 manual has a note which basically just says "don't write programs that do that, it probably won't work" < 1586379390 932673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some programs which are technically unambiguous but need infinite lookahead to sort the "ambiguity" out, so C-INTERCAL can pick the wrong parse earlier on < 1586379408 675241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the manual gives it explicit permission to do that, though, probably because the original implementation had the same problem!) < 1586379413 354140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, INTERCAL was created when ambiguous FORTRAN was one of the most used programming languages, so it makes sense that it takes _that_ feature from it < 1586379430 490760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the ambiguity in FORTRAN? < 1586379446 564354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's not actually ambiguous, just requires too much lookahead < 1586379450 141130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1586379472 640727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : what properties do these arbitrary objects have that distinguishes them from characters? => for example they can be a countable set, but nonetheless with several known subsets and constants to use in matching. Though that still can be encoded via byte sequences, yeah < 1586379475 237048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like in basic where it doesn't require whitespace, so DOFOO=2 is an assignment, DO FOO=2,3 is a loop head, but the space doesn't matter < 1586379482 884525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 2 can be a complicated expression < 1586379506 334639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like A XOR 1 vs AX OR 1 in some old basic interpreters < 1586379508 89358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not used to FORTRAN program using multiple-character variable names :-D < 1586379521 802211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, they can have variable names up to 6 characters < 1586379526 591216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, there's an ambiguity like that in INTERCAL too! < 1586379528 778297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much better than basic, with its 2 characters < 1586379539 351745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO READ OUT #1 versus DO REA DO UT #1 < 1586379561 759125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one caught out a few lesser-known INTERCAL interpreters when people started golfing < 1586379562 152477 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you put parentheses to resolve the ambiguity? < 1586379577 847690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: INTERCAL doesn't use parentheses as precedence overrides < 1586379580 793831 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least some BASIC programs I have seen they only use one letter for variable names, sometimes followed by digits too < 1586379586 23743 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I mean in BASIC < 1586379595 378968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it has two different precedence override syntaxes and you can always solve an ambiguity caused by one by using the other instead < 1586379598 168882 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, how is that disambiguated? < 1586379603 489563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's UT? < 1586379611 768210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it isn't but syntax errors are legal in INTERCAL < 1586379613 708066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work only when the statement is only ran when ignored? < 1586379616 97698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1586379643 659342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all current interpreters arbitrarily ignore the DO in DO READOUT, at least if the statement is otherwise syntactically valid < 1586379645 696062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, one letter is shorter < 1586379653 634298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unclear whether this is the correct course of action or not < 1586379662 889880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's INTERCAL, the spec is not exactly the most unambiguous of things < 1586379692 510979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, at least one INTERCAL programmer has seriously argued that spaces should be permitted inside keywords and even inside numerical constants and variable names < 1586379701 120486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't widely implemented < 1586379707 904737 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : however it has two different precedence override syntaxes and you can always solve an ambiguity caused by one by using the other instead => esoteric < 1586379744 503155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Google's style guide suggests alternating between them to a) avoid any risk of an ambiguity that confuses the compiler, b) make it easier to read for a human < 1586379758 586192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are they storing INTERCAL programs on 5-bit ticker tape? < 1586379781 590353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1586379788 292136 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, there’s a Google style guide for INTERCAL? :o < 1586379790 999574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or transfer it by 5-bit modem? < 1586379795 252861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there's no real evidence that Google has written any more than one INTERCAL program < 1586379802 87942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it was part of their April Fools thing one year < 1586379827 155122 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl's return is... complicated. < 1586379837 195360 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that’s probably neat :F < 1586379839 668043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D * < 1586379853 438004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's offline nowadays, and the Internet Archive is down < 1586379859 847226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a saved local copy but will need to check the license before rehosting it < 1586379878 757779 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t worry, the sole existence of it is enough for me :) < 1586379909 701819 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know enough INTERCAL to appreciate the style guide sufficiently < 1586379917 51752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe) < 1586379923 670572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, their INTERCAL program had a bug (or at least a nonportability) < 1586379930 833660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent them a pull request and they gave me commit access < 1586379939 431056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the repo ceased to exist shortly afterwards, when they closed the repo host < 1586379950 809652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was probably the only person outside Google to ever have commit access to it < 1586379991 511299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, no explicit license on the repo :-( < 1586379995 531658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's default-all-rights-reserved < 1586380008 18849 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : so I was probably the only person outside Google to ever have commit access to it => hehe < 1586380074 75306 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw if someone uses Freesound.org, they had an anniversary a couple days ago < 1586380163 213261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I found an archive of the program itself, on a Google host, with an apache2 license on it < 1586380169 932711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the style guide is not in the same archive < 1586380224 669194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the license doesn't apply to it < 1586380395 135021 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586380687 99331 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586380879 718145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586381625 747031 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586381794 888274 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586381795 270407 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586382551 434125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Derpcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70771&oldid=59452 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586383911 819565 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds) < 1586384938 999025 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586385475 987125 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586386254 83679 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.105.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586386417 824692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586386642 985510 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.105.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586387508 834708 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586387543 890843 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586388187 936681 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586388314 768270 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1586388876 9738 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds