< 1588378024 479650 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588378224 144789 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the word NIHONIUM in the latest version of the Scrabble dictionary? < 1588379282 888562 :Train23!ca9a8765@202-154-135-101.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588379454 887227 :Train!ca9a8545@202-154-133-69.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1588379704 887077 :Train23!ca9a8765@202-154-135-101.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1588379752 811006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588379767 853498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: ^ in Underload is basically an eval operation < 1588379774 672755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the top stack element and runs it as though it were a program < 1588379783 955360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (x)aS < 1588379784 48893 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x) < 1588379789 557620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (x)(a)^S < 1588379789 633125 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x) < 1588379841 198154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to do a loop in Underload is to use a chain of ^s to do recursion < 1588379855 180241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but orbitaldecay mentioned "Overload", not "Underload". I don't know what the former is, but I know that there are other ^ operators than the underload ones. < 1588379912 871920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((loop )S:^):^ < 1588379913 757754 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop loop lo < 1588379941 803716 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :l00p < 1588380040 594967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (aS(:^)S):^ < 1588380040 632407 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aS(:^)S):^ < 1588380071 219885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I assume it was just a mistake < 1588380076 942092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overload was a language that I never finished designing < 1588380079 407328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is a subset of it < 1588380097 134667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1588380100 396318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the operations in Overload would look /really/ out of place in an Underload-alike, e.g. it had pointers, and goto commands < 1588380127 141076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was in a very unfinished state and I never wrote my ideas down < 1588380145 226404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wouldn't really have worked as a language, I don't think; Underload was how I salvaged it into something useful) < 1588380206 193368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I inveted Consumer Society by trying to think of a slightly larger language, then realized how you need very few rules to get something easy to remember and elegant. < 1588380394 420242 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a document of how Lore Seeker makes up random booster packs for official and unofficial sets of Magic: the Gathering cards, which are many different ways depending on which set, including "naive algorithm", "taw's algorithm" (which replaces five of the common slots with color locked slots), "Reuben's algorithm", and a few others. < 1588380457 970727 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Lore Seeker calls "naive algorithm" can be implemented in TeXnicard as: create view deck_draft(cards,count,options) as select make_deck(id),1,0x0 from cards where rarity = 'B' union all select make_deck(id),10,0x0001 from cards where rarity = 'C' union all select make_deck(id),3,0x0001 from cards where rarity = 'U' union all select make_deck(id,'w',case when rarity = 'R' then 2 else 1 end),1,0 from cards where rarity in ('R','M') < 1588380511 887254 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588381001 815366 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What card games need algorithms which cannot be represented in this way? < 1588382189 572266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1588382640 685846 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588385835 511273 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, do you have any ideas for what I should make next in trainCode? I'm taking a break from the minsky machine. < 1588385999 923715 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: I don't know; sorry < 1588386239 17009 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth "grammar" is pretty complex. almost impossible to verify properly that you'll use something in a way that's intended. if you design a linguistic feature and users don't use it correctly, it's nearly impossible to determine why unless it's something obvious. < 1588386457 796028 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have any of you guys ever tried your hand at artificial life? < 1588386536 861126 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :some times. < 1588386552 124086 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing one rn. < 1588386599 473262 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have evolved the ability to spontaneously regenerate on a molecular level. Any suggestions on how I could stop this? < 1588386623 551170 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. what're you authoring your simulation in. < 1588386632 863282 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1588386652 404300 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :artificial life usually implies that you've got a simulator for your "organisms" to live in. < 1588386671 293511 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do. < 1588386696 771820 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... so what's it written in. how are you defining the rules for the components of your organism to behave. < 1588386701 644868 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made in processing, and since this is the most technical internet forum I've found so far, I'm wondering if you guys can help me. < 1588386719 44180 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1588386735 170153 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not online yet. < 1588386744 303408 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh. got a paste that of code? < 1588386748 33733 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1588386752 853683 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it anyway < 1588386830 599563 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here's the basics: < 1588386836 22140 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are n types of particle < 1588386863 301155 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :each type of particle is either attracted, repulsed or neutral towards other particles, and this is inverse-squarely proportional to distance < 1588386948 633656 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1588386957 962826 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratz, you've invented an n-body sim. < 1588386963 37663 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1588387019 180261 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I created about 125 of each type. and ran it. < 1588387096 525828 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :they form stable clusters rapidly < 1588387313 892712 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the point where I can't destroy them < 1588388649 755409 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I change it so they don't do this. < 1588390089 744940 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588392738 952488 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588393150 301689 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588394073 888577 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588394078 317536 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday. < 1588394157 744706 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1588394176 393424 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, zzo38! Are you always online? < 1588394195 27882 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually. Not quite always. < 1588394255 502971 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very peculiar. Every time that I log on, you are online. Are you semi-afk on irc, and doing something else, or do you just sit here, waiting for people so you can catch them as soon as they enter? < 1588394302 204121 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do many other things too. < 1588394315 819142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: Every time you log on, you're also online. < 1588394315 856525 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on TeXnicard, for example. < 1588394326 754727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't know why you find it surprising that someone else is. < 1588394473 158071 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, let the probability of me being online at any given time be x, a value between 0 and 1 and the probability of zzo38 being online be y, a value between 0 and 1. When I log on, zzo38 has always been online, indicating a very high value of y regardless of the value of x (which is anyway fairly low). This y-value is almost 1 and as such I am < 1588394473 657203 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprised at such a high value. Are you not? < 1588394500 708592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, should I expect them to be independent? < 1588394539 716743 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :from esolangs.org/logs, I find that there is a correlation of ~0.3 < 1588394565 196242 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not enormous, so they are mostly independent, and the high y-value makes the correlation higher. < 1588394578 257562 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are we discussing this? < 1588394582 419458 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like you already know the answer to "Are you always online?". < 1588394632 659956 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I checked it after zzo38 said he was generally online most of the time. A quick check of https://esolangs.org/logs/2020-04.html and https://esolangs.org/logs/2020-05.html is all that I needed to obtain my values. < 1588394686 527246 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time zone are you in? < 1588394760 384650 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMT+12 < 1588394765 242887 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1588394852 985865 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wake Island. < 1588394900 278978 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :A long way from anywhere. < 1588395298 33527 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm joking. I don't work for the US air force, and I won't give my location away to random internet strangers. < 1588395331 998142 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm also at least 8560 miles away from anywhere that uses GMT+12. < 1588395338 311920 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1588395356 147478 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1588395364 201102 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1588395369 628793 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a terrifying smiley. < 1588395699 505522 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588395833 436844 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588396242 890836 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588396782 630612 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ksyioosvfvljvwst QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1588396816 96194 :Train!ca9a8766@202-154-135-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588397336 77902 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :train must be young. < 1588397389 230015 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but what makes you believe that, though? < 1588397533 540263 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seems like it. was young once. < 1588397583 129522 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK < 1588397655 579394 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youth is such a distinctive thing. < 1588397793 678430 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds the days of hiding physical location online so weird now < 1588398838 616196 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :large-scale social media has encouraged individuals to share data in an attempt at forming a personal connection, as if opening your actual, personal self in the form of datapoints about your real life will help make connections. it's a ploy to get your data and market to you. you can form a connection with another human without ever knowing anything about their real-life endeavors. < 1588398869 190524 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's probably better. you learn how to accept people for who they are despite "who" they are. < 1588398893 305038 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lie if you want to. < 1588398901 805170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please get my data and market to me! < 1588398903 878851 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. but that's your freedom. < 1588398912 262602 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: marketing to you would be a herculian effort. < 1588398922 788866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1588398936 123447 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you like! < 1588398951 444870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's your job to decide as a marketer. < 1588398961 578725 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah woah, I never signed up for that. :P < 1588398979 575317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like cats. < 1588398990 110346 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 advertisements for meow mix, got it. < 1588399022 255694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, don't blame me for your terrible marketing skills. < 1588399218 317025 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's preferences are a little easier to discern irl < 1588399232 492852 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not easy at all, i've got like one or two additional things to add in there, but hey < 1588399889 209181 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One question of the hacker test says if you own a flowchart template. I actually do have a flowchart template from IBM. < 1588399974 304972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, what can you market to me? < 1588399976 268587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it cats? < 1588399999 414292 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a marketer. < 1588400595 749050 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i'm pretty sure it's scows < 1588400643 92737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1588400670 247371 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :good sir or madam, would you like to buy a scow? < 1588400711 905103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all depends on the price. < 1588400724 77895 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it does < 1588400783 298673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'd like to buy software that isn't terrible. < 1588400788 12465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'd pay a lot for that. < 1588400842 23672 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :afraid the best i can do is random cute things < 1588400860 438145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the deal with people writing interfaces like make_foo().with_thing(true).with_other_thing(5).all_done_now()? < 1588400867 428655 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as good as software that isn't terrible, but can make you feel better about the software that is terrible < 1588400918 678675 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you put newlines before the dots it ends up looking almost "clean" < 1588400923 693243 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ignore the nonsense of course < 1588400933 914221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is popular in Java land. But I saw a Rust library that does it now, and I've seen it in other languages. < 1588400946 428795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just seems kind of silly. I guess it's fine. < 1588400959 557405 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Java programmers don't just stay in Java land, I'm sad to report. < 1588400960 773463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately C doesn't support this idiom. < 1588400976 87323 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has its own downsides, of course. < 1588401005 773639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1588401010 544972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what are the better options? < 1588401013 597486 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with C is the confusing type syntax. (Well, it is one of them.) < 1588401050 873981 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly ever is any given language going to be strictly "better" than the other, imo < 1588401061 858490 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :All language decisions come with tradeoffs. < 1588401085 217476 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a matter of which sacrifices you're willing to make for which benefits, really < 1588401085 254866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but what can I use in practice for a thing that I might use C for right now? < 1588401101 266303 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best choices are C, C++, and Rust in that general space < 1588401104 217312 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depend what you are making, I think. < 1588401122 59119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust seems to be going way in the wrong direction. < 1588401125 507438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++ too. < 1588401186 200944 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think rust is going in the wrong direction? < 1588401290 481714 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many good features of C that other programming languages don't do so well. < 1588401339 797984 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's your suggestion to handle make_foo().with_thing(true).with_other_thing(5).all_done_now() better without sacrificing a reasonable type system < 1588401421 101208 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :war on types < 1588401427 555609 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been all downhill since church < 1588401445 742953 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, you are a js dev < 1588401458 389640 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a smartass < 1588401462 758690 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :and professional yaml dev :/ < 1588401467 479031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh. < 1588401467 516308 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1588401473 92716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I market some YAML to you? < 1588401479 395645 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1588401501 290644 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have > 1 lines of YAML already, it's far too many < 1588401501 415380 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's such a good c feature? < 1588401553 35167 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever i think of c, i fail to think of any positives < 1588401584 178339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pretty simple and mostly corresponds to how computers work. < 1588401598 573677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it maximizes either one. < 1588401617 313006 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's macro assembler, but i don't see that as an advantage < 1588401656 876529 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to write how computers work. that will more likely produce bad code if you aren't an expert < 1588401678 298718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want to be able to write code that corresponds to how computers work. < 1588401685 773251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most languages won't let you do that. < 1588401697 627616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are certainly features that would improve C. < 1588401726 685895 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :write assembly, then. modern c compilers do stuff you would never imagine while writing your c code < 1588401778 808799 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :write in forth. < 1588401787 792681 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :be quirky. < 1588401796 609089 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does have many good features, such as pointer arithmetic, setjmp/longjmp, macros, etc. But many things it doesn't do so well that assembly language is doing much better. < 1588401841 434234 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in rust, too, if you really wanted to. there's just virtually no reason to do so < 1588401876 399856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Rust good? < 1588401897 498688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you want to write a program that doesn't use malloc but has other allocation strategies. Doesn't Rust fight you all the time? < 1588401913 135078 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust tries to remove as many errors as possible during compile time. big fan of that approach < 1588401955 763869 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that? you could easily write your own allocator and use that < 1588401969 320985 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the api is way easier to handle than that of c < 1588401975 164466 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm idling in #esoteric, I think I mostly want to echo imode. < 1588401992 9704 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, dealloc will get a pointer and the amount of memory to free < 1588402000 611979 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to keep track of sizes of data < 1588402009 232583 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if Forth even counts as esoteric, actually. But of those recently mentioned... < 1588402043 291479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you use arena allocation, you don't even need to call dealloc. But Rust is all about destructors and RAII and things like that, I think? < 1588402125 938722 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in safe code, it is, yeah. how's that a problem? < 1588402156 603640 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Consider Ada? < 1588402156 720830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the things I'm talking about aren't even the real problem. < 1588402171 290742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnm: That's an option! < 1588402173 189703 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1588402174 378819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a real one, though. < 1588402177 460649 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not solve these problems for you. < 1588402184 800412 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, I'm a busy girl. < 1588402189 650443 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1588402200 594659 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not a real one? < 1588402212 185918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada? I kind of doubt it. < 1588402219 598127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe for specialized things. < 1588402239 418430 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess I missed what the scenario is/constraints are < 1588402285 881658 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. Was it this? I only want to be able to write code that corresponds to how computers work. < 1588402302 589537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. < 1588402305 461977 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I definitely won't be helpful for that. < 1588402330 296700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure dnm was suggesting Ada Lovelace. < 1588402345 783871 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I could take a lot of issue with the idea that C is how computers work. But. < 1588402348 694155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused about usage. Are you Ada Lovelace's namesake, or is she yours? < 1588402362 718759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnm: Well, I granted that! < 1588402371 785798 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think she's my namesake. < 1588402393 67876 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a phrase that comes up much though < 1588402400 199813 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was just saying Ada (as a language) could be considered re: Say you want to write a program that doesn't use malloc but has other allocation strategies. Doesn't Rust fight you all the time? < 1588402433 316527 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, no, I'm her namesake apparently. < 1588402435 566463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I would have said, but then someone else was confused and now I'm confused. < 1588402441 679858 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :English. Such a weird language. < 1588402443 637225 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :S'ok. Me too. < 1588402477 938349 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Speaking of Forth, you hacking anything in or adjacent to it? < 1588402478 619322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "namesake" makes me think of the play Arcadia, where someone says "your illustrious namesake". < 1588402503 766655 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is definitely more confusing than the mere namespace collision that is sharing a name with a programming language < 1588402523 414168 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not very common, thankfully, so it usually doesn't matter < 1588402526 562917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Ada isn't directly mentioned in that play, though Byron is. < 1588402534 614922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one character is based on her? < 1588402538 893653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovelace, I mean. < 1588402549 529084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, what a good play. < 1588402599 428900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, no one ever talks about Ada the programming language, whereas Lovelace is one of the only two people anyone ever names for "women in computing" for some reason. < 1588402621 137319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I imagine that collision happens a lot more. < 1588402647 310090 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lovely name though. < 1588402728 521405 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnm: yeah, I have a language called `mode` that's... kinda close to Forth? < 1588402758 69886 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do sometimes use 6502 assembly language and Glulx assembly language, and sometimes write a program with more than one programming language, e.g. TeXnicard is written half in C, half in PostScript, and half in SQL. < 1588402761 595824 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty minimalist. the only single data structure you manipulate is a deque. < 1588402768 331902 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of two stacks. < 1588402779 704230 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I appreciate hand-written PostScript. < 1588402801 453065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How many total halves are in TeXnicard? < 1588402811 931957 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Neat. What'd you implement it in? < 1588402814 796696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love for the answer to be two halves, using a complicated polyglot technique. < 1588402847 783747 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concurrent version is implemented as a preprocessor that generates lists of C preprocessor tokens, which flatten out into C code. < 1588402878 180104 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnm: Yes, that is all I use PostScript for. I think PostScript isn't very good as a protocol or a document storage format, but as a programming language it is not bad, especially for doing graphics. < 1588402880 334016 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-concurrent version does the same, only it actually flattens out into if/while statements. < 1588402904 423922 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: URL? < 1588402917 466804 :howlands_!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588402928 748370 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: TeXnicard is not made of "halves", I think. < 1588402976 461767 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnm: https://git.imode.tech/?p=mode;a=tree;h=refs/heads/master;hb=refs/heads/master it's pretty old, but eh. < 1588403062 588772 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the preprocessor is a simple flattening macro system. you take a token, you see if it has a definition, and then you slap that definition in the middle of your program source. < 1588403067 396728 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :rinse and repeat until reduced. < 1588403120 507451 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this version generates a list of function pointers to be executed. < 1588403380 474942 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:ddf2:b3d8:c656:f935 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588403525 840968 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Cool! This looks pretty clean, too! < 1588403569 114594 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! the only fundamental manipulation/shuffling ops are dup, drop, swap and last. < 1588403587 105025 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :last moves something from the end of the queue to the head of the queue. all other operations, like dup, take items from the head and enqueue results to the tail. < 1588403620 85396 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can make your queue look like and behave like a stack if you want. < 1588403629 148487 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in TeXnicard, PostScript codes can call SQL codes. < 1588403644 413476 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all other forth primitives (even `pick`!) can be implemented as compound macros. < 1588403822 772319 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this particular version includes concurrency. so you can spawn up lightweight processes and communicate synchronously between them. you can simulate functions by spinning up a process, sending it data, and then waiting for the result to be sent back. < 1588403924 396630 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't mapped 'em to threads yet. < 1588405071 961961 :LKoen_!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588405257 185693 :LKoen_!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :LKoen < 1588407149 922714 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1588408429 239009 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1588408626 661821 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588409321 79918 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588409468 301950 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588409882 809172 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588410407 355661 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1588410442 847617 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-231-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1588410442 926903 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-231-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1588410442 926943 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1588411857 456034 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588412525 651344 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moin < 1588413091 822540 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1588413527 58828 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moggels! < 1588413536 366169 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1588413548 190548 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong chat. < 1588413577 990289 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:885d:74c6:cb9e:85cb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588413883 861583 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c52d:335a:445:9eee JOIN :#esoteric < 1588413903 175658 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Quit: bye < 1588415049 934858 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588415390 993258 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588417002 268521 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😸 < 1588419066 600339 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588419126 284778 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588419148 822114 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588420053 886824 :P!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588420076 695737 :P!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca NICK :Guest19630 < 1588420093 807774 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588420108 738901 :Guest19630!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PART :#esoteric < 1588420226 711753 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:ddf2:b3d8:c656:f935 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588420286 435351 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588420491 522287 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1588426997 629794 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htfqrvkzdkiywxzu JOIN :#esoteric > 1588427414 645885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VALGOL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71618&oldid=71598 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-123) 10fixed with more recent link < 1588427856 61275 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588427867 65204 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588428032 579988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0711CORTLANG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71619&oldid=71453 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+64) 10/* Hello, World! */ cat > 1588428374 550877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Afz14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71620&oldid=68244 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+45) 10cat > 1588429257 678916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apple Pie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71621&oldid=58443 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+74) 10cat > 1588429412 407164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asig14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71622&oldid=39165 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+88) 10cat < 1588431782 652071 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588431787 724536 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c52d:335a:445:9eee QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588433003 4566 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c52d:335a:445:9eee JOIN :#esoteric < 1588433528 796662 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588434407 26751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Three Star Programmer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71623&oldid=54863 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Variants */ pyfix < 1588434610 661070 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588435166 830534 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588435264 996101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Sinjoro14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71624 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+172) 10Created page with "Do you currently have a Python interpreter written for [[PureBrainz]]? ~~~~" < 1588436075 883052 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588436241 887482 :P!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588436244 376251 :P!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588436264 887299 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588436416 953016 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 2+2 < 1588436417 514572 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 4 < 1588436449 917034 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c52d:335a:445:9eee QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588436455 356187 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ *: 4 < 1588436456 14131 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 16 < 1588436468 253090 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 4 + 4 5 + 5 < 1588436468 993507 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 13 14 < 1588436487 219857 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + 2 3 + 4 < 1588436491 256544 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 + 2 3 + 4 < 1588436491 882800 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 7 8 < 1588436520 889083 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ *:4 < 1588436521 458763 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 16 > 1588436676 258794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Butterbrain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71625&oldid=71483 5* 03Fwander 5* (-1) 10 < 1588436796 339891 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 + 2 ; 3 + 4 < 1588436796 979010 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: |domain error < 1588436796 979054 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: | 1 +2;3+4 < 1588436827 660868 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ x =: 100 < 1588436828 263837 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: |ok < 1588436831 928025 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x + 1 < 1588436836 283768 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ x + 1 < 1588436836 901383 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 101 < 1588436883 762018 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ +/2 3 4 < 1588436884 491975 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 9 < 1588436928 234995 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ >. / 1 6 5 x < 1588436928 951757 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: |syntax error < 1588436928 951803 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: | >./ 1 6 5 x < 1588436934 300681 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ >. / 1 6 5 < 1588436934 937474 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: 6 < 1588436938 515604 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ >. / x 1 6 5 < 1588436939 132273 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: |syntax error < 1588436939 132337 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PsDw: | >./ x 1 6 5 < 1588436958 623152 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588437313 839342 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588437314 837535 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588437958 940254 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c52d:335a:445:9eee JOIN :#esoteric < 1588439657 611944 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh bummer, they left < 1588439672 179825 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ x =. 100 < 1588439672 789450 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: |ok < 1588439681 521393 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ >./ x,1 6 5 NB. FWIW < 1588439682 96128 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 100 < 1588440196 931138 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c52d:335a:445:9eee QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588440371 841705 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588440649 800421 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588440900 79973 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588441290 542547 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:ddf2:b3d8:c656:f935 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588441606 851960 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588441818 812693 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588442896 784429 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588443087 993842 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588443135 502168 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588443680 90123 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588443765 536086 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htfqrvkzdkiywxzu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1588444616 460501 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588444656 155842 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588444752 847388 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20190223T161625Z.html < 1588445081 336630 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: "You don't have permission to access this resource." < 1588445324 604331 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a problem accessing it with Lynx. < 1588445397 804897 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh.. < 1588445430 358484 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a 403 Forbidden via both Firefox and curl < 1588445476 161679 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Lynx then, and see if that works. If that doesn't work either, try using a different proxy, maybe. < 1588445490 711129 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm going to assume the server doesn't like me, rather than there being something weird with my request < 1588445526 270752 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/J47FRwGx here is a copy of the page < 1588445538 581409 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yes, that would seem so, it look like to me < 1588445539 739416 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a residential connection from a Swedish ISP, not sure what'd be weird about that o.o < 1588445546 475255 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: danke < 1588445950 458730 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it because you set the language header to Swedish instead of English? Maybe they don't have a version of that document in Swedish. < 1588445979 975823 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I request english primarily, with swedish as a secondary choice < 1588445994 632630 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a pretty weird reason for a 403 to me, oh well < 1588446073 875409 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if your request says English, then that shouldn't be that problem, and even if you do specify only languages they don't have, presumably if there is an error code due to that at all, it should be 406 and not 403, I think. < 1588446390 671427 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also set all my browsers to request English. only on very few sites does that prove a problem. Most sites just ignore those headers anyway. < 1588446992 529414 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my "separations output format"? It is not currently implemented, but may be implemented in TeXnicard and possibly other programs too in future they might find it useful to implement this kind of file format. < 1588447028 868354 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is meant as a simple raster format for printing. < 1588447153 80753 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588447942 523632 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, maybe commands should be added to specify such things as rendering intent and so on (programs that do not understand these commands can ignore them). < 1588448208 388442 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1588448440 23910 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588448748 4127 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588448818 892389 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588449035 980267 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588449301 984532 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:ddf2:b3d8:c656:f935 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588450240 111828 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588450665 338171 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588451156 984139 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588451442 981724 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588451524 309373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588451808 111663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71626&oldid=71494 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+224) 10 > 1588452059 649000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71627&oldid=71503 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+141) 10 < 1588452261 198701 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588452344 505681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* 10New user account > 1588452374 225013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71628&oldid=71584 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Useful Instructions (I am not sure whether they are useful in restricted source contests though) */ fix header > 1588452551 697137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71629&oldid=71540 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+214) 10/* Introductions */ < 1588452835 994533 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you're got at remembering things. when does the patent on automatic squirrel feeders expire? < 1588452836 175004 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i don't disagree with your point, but i think it tries to execute it < 1588452849 950680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute the squirrels? oh, my! < 1588452865 155466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: fungot is shedding light on one of your nefarious plots < 1588452865 266173 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: got a test button working in awt... now on the rest < 1588453466 89390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What are you working on there? < 1588453466 218720 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: e.g. by using english i make it more verbose :) let me do < 1588453480 325736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll back off and leave you to it. > 1588453545 308241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71630 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+876) 10Created page with "'''Rhoam''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:EvilMuffinHa]] in [[:Category:2019|2019]] in which there are only 3 characters. == Syntax == Rhoam has a..." > 1588453583 511711 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71631&oldid=71630 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+24) 10 > 1588453609 304069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71632&oldid=71631 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+6) 10 > 1588453664 248515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71633&oldid=71632 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+1) 10 > 1588453868 922567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wrapping Rhoam14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71634 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+1004) 10Created page with "'''Wrapping Rhoam''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:EvilMuffinHa]] in [[:Category:2019|2019]] in which there are only 2 characters. It is an extensi..." > 1588453882 632259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71635&oldid=71633 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+35) 10 > 1588453967 866269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wrapping Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71636&oldid=71634 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+9) 10 > 1588454236 278168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71637&oldid=71635 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+0) 10 > 1588454292 904967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam Ultimate14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71638 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+1184) 10Created page with "'''Rhoam Ultimate''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:EvilMuffinHa]] in [[:Category:2019|2019]] in which there is only 1 character. It is an extension..." > 1588454311 217614 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wrapping Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71639&oldid=71636 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+21) 10 > 1588454334 787232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71640&oldid=71637 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+21) 10 < 1588454835 858512 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588455199 295741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1588455607 999609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71641&oldid=71580 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+33) 10/* R */ > 1588455656 14321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71642&oldid=71641 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+21) 10/* W */ > 1588455668 91627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:EvilMuffinHa14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71643 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+96) 10Created page with "Hi, I'm '''EvilMuffinHa'''. I have created * [[Rhoam]] * [[Wrapping Rhoam]] * [[Rhoam Ultimate]]" < 1588457224 134894 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1588457299 366496 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1588458624 172785 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the rut... why can nothing that's expressive and usable ever have a stupid simple implementation. < 1588458743 341275 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you consider Forth? < 1588458758 790583 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that expressive, turns out. < 1588458774 481728 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the model gives people headaches. < 1588458791 678770 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am called by the siren that is rewriting to investigate alternatives, never being satisfied with a single one. < 1588459162 771620 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1e8e/82cc742e832f6182f9415835894e35f670a4.pdf < 1588459183 642150 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat concept, basing your control flow around l-systems. < 1588460273 735505 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588460956 874770 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588461436 142888 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588461473 836740 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588461772 919736 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588462278 715366 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588462402 961272 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588462450 331219 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588463222 334951 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588463495 356408 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8a1:de70:1c3c:a584 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588463557 596608 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”