< 1588550415 969357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charlie0: hmm, have you tried editing the whole page rather than a section? < 1588550470 975725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing what the "(section)" part in that message means.) < 1588550477 71438 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e I did not, so I tried that, and it still fails < 1588550537 226482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, hmm, the instructions say to edit the section. < 1588550624 911847 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyingly this is hard to test. All I can really say is that we've had a successful introduction today so it should work in principle. < 1588550649 290758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And repeat the instructions, but that's awfully redundant.) < 1588550854 9346 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, this isn't worth fixing a typo. Bye < 1588550856 649072 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588550879 16009 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm just as I was trying to figure out what the checks actually are... < 1588551322 814396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh we can actually see the edit in question... it also changed "Amicloud" to "Amibutt" elsewhere in the page... this applies to *all* of Charlie0's attempts. < 1588551325 843824 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. < 1588551486 665009 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that is why it doesn't works, I suppose < 1588551533 432457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, obviously... it counts as a removal (of the line being changed) and those are rejected. But how does this happen every single time? < 1588551594 127963 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cloud-to-Butt extension. < 1588551639 896815 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1588551671 441411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What a stupid idea. < 1588551681 603366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... this is why, mystery solved. :) < 1588551689 962711 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally a joke extension, so hey :) < 1588551720 283115 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the joke just got real and \harmful. < 1588551773 577358 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's kind of okay to do this to normal page contents, but doing it text fields that will be submitted is a terrible idea. < 1588551799 241254 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not wrong < 1588551848 332866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/panicsteve/cloud-to-butt/issues/55 < 1588551867 335140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including the observation that it's not *this* particular extension) < 1588552034 985883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the solution for self-diagnosis by Charlie0 would've been to do a "show changes". It would've looked odd (showing a line as changed with no visible difference) but it would've been some clue at least. < 1588552404 915455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so that's the typo fix < 1588552440 421018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wanted to change a typoed butt < 1588552442 886170 :Antebrationist!ca9a82a6@202-154-130-166.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588553021 979699 :Antebrationist!ca9a82a6@202-154-130-166.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588553032 91642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71670&oldid=71660 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+644) 10 < 1588554278 276802 :zseri!~zseri@ip4d158302.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: brainfuck with indirection, implemented in Rust: https://gitlab.ytrizja.de/zseri/befinde < 1588554834 141307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's funny that the (section) edit actually made this more likely to go through. < 1588554841 364427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess not more likely enough. < 1588555731 983320 :zseri!~zseri@ip4d158302.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: zseri > 1588555948 327820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Charlie014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71671 5* 03Int-e 5* (+429) 10introduction instructions < 1588555979 365466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe they can see that. It can hardly hurt.) < 1588556000 895884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Now who wants to go through all wiki edits and look for changes of cloud to butt? ) < 1588556043 452448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm beginning to think of this as a feature... except for the terrible diagnostics. < 1588556391 76348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anybody else notice that we lost all interest in Intcode once the AoC event was over? < 1588556405 987129 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess it wasn't all that exciting as a programming language really. < 1588556517 289861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't ever look at it in the first place. < 1588556530 842756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did write a permutations iterator and now I'm wondering whether there's a better way. < 1588556821 414175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is it January again? < 1588557101 574804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`datei < 1588557102 881649 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2020-05-04 01:51:42.272 +0000 UTC May 4 Monday 2020-W19-1 < 1588557112 154309 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^ no, still month --05 < 1588557214 770962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1588557216 25662 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is starving for attention. < 1588557495 872652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg password < 1588557497 765996 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :12323:2020-04-05 learn The password of the month is starving for attention. \ 12318:2020-03-01 learn The password of the month was fought for, and stomped on, but it remains unreconciled with \ 12310:2020-02-12 undo 12307 \ 12309:2020-02-12 revert \ 12308:2020-02-12 learn The password of the month is always set on the 12th of the month. \ 12307:2020-02-01 learn The password < 1588558251 777671 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put a hidden field that says "This field is meant to detect invertent tampering such as changing 'cloud' to 'butt'" and then display an error message if that message has been tampered with. > 1588558402 455462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Voltage200714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71672&oldid=70184 5* 03Fwander 5* (-91) 10Replaced content with "Thanks!" < 1588558509 811543 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588558522 246932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1588560436 277363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: seems rather pointless; there must be dozens of such plugins for different replacements... < 1588560556 883099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, this partly contradicts what I wrote about considering this a feature. I *am* happy that it caught this particular add-on, but obviously that was due to sheer luck.) < 1588560665 188670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... maybe a more proper check for this kind of add-on would have a hidden input with the whole page to be edited along with the textarea, and check that it's submitted without modifications. That seems to be a lot of overhead though... < 1588560693 458644 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that seems too much of overhead < 1588560748 289844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's easy to imagine that an add-on would do those edits randomly and then all those measures will be rather futile. < 1588560758 865080 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... not worth bothering with. < 1588560764 397830 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1588561226 656174 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588561328 892911 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588562392 843472 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588563604 894560 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588563724 681276 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588565922 502983 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588567349 355570 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1c90:d9cc:4e8:519b JOIN :#esoteric < 1588567623 330809 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1c90:d9cc:4e8:519b QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1588568434 895698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71673&oldid=71174 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+7) 10/* text2pxem.pl */ Recopied and repasted the program name from official blog < 1588568528 886604 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588568586 278180 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I am halfway through the ALU for the Minsky Machine. < 1588568608 250044 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1588568625 109262 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I finished the initialisation component. < 1588568638 192118 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all very modular. < 1588568669 529114 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initialisation module, data reading module, Addition ALU, Subtraction ALU, character jumper. < 1588568716 623506 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I finally have a name - Eldritch. < 1588568767 480291 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588568875 909325 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588568966 606446 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to solve a Magic: the Gathering puzzle at this time. < 1588568979 977278 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588568985 416801 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... MTG is Turing complete. < 1588568992 759303 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am aware of that. < 1588569001 604088 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cool, isn < 1588569011 495809 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t it, that a simple card game can be TC. < 1588569052 277356 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wanted to see if someone can represent Goldbach's Conjecture or Fermat's Last Theorem as a Magic: the Gathering puzzle. < 1588569067 610198 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1588569115 2102 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLT should be fairly trivial, but Goldbach's Conjecture, while theoretically possible is insanely difficult. < 1588569155 855180 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't invented my own new puzzles recently, although I have invented some puzzles some time ago, and I believe they still work with the current rules (although I mentioned what version of the rules they use anyways, just in case). < 1588569223 353524 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1588569260 863436 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1588569265 422235 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also started making up my own set of Magic: the Gathering cards. But, how should collector numbers be determined? < 1588569269 231051 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1588569653 322756 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone else asked if a Magic: the Gathering puzzle will be made up like Mitrofanov's chess study. I didn't know about until they asked, and then I looked it up on Wikipedia and found it. < 1588570290 886829 :Antebrationist44!ca9a872f@202-154-135-47.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588570429 886532 :Antebrationist!ca9a8440@202-154-132-64.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1588570592 479693 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1c90:d9cc:4e8:519b JOIN :#esoteric < 1588570867 460777 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1c90:d9cc:4e8:519b QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588571355 517468 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess so :D < 1588571416 165136 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should've asked you all my questions about SAT solvers back when I was trying to figure things out. < 1588571424 368642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the moment my CDCL solver is on hold. < 1588571454 970312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I was working on it I needed to figure out how to do clause deletion. > 1588571484 45510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Padlock14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71674 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+8) 10Initial page < 1588571578 434683 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've implemented the multi-tier strategy from https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-24318-4_23 and AFAIK most solvers converged on a variation of that < 1588571659 532431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just misreading the output of MiniSAT so I thought clause deletion was much less important than it actually was. < 1588571770 689125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the multi-tier strategy described? < 1588571822 478867 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588571838 18778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the chapter by Oh? < 1588572105 411438 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588572257 839316 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588572332 245485 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588573326 380356 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah < 1588574089 811309 :Antebrationist44!ca9a872f@202-154-135-47.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588574736 573688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: collector numbers are assigned sequentially in the set after sorting it first by whether the card appears in randomized booster packs, then by border color (the groups are IIRC devoid, w, u, b, r, g, hybrid, gold, artifact, land, but I'm not certain about the details) then English name < 1588574785 972351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can use existing sets as an example < 1588574957 778336 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, I know what you mentioned, but want to know the other details too < 1588575032 70988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we should put control characters including lone lf and crlf, and some invalid utf-8 and other traps into that page :) < 1588576773 181982 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Mitrofanov's chess study? < 1588576940 286439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Oh, I just noticed you linked to the specific paper. < 1588576960 282468 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just clicked on the PDF link and it took me to the entire book so I spent some time searching it for tiers. < 1588577937 930316 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588578223 500993 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: just remembered that I also wrote a short summary of what I did: https://jix.one/refactoring-varisat-4-heuristics/#clause-database-reduction < 1588578356 957270 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that also explains a few things that Oh's paper probably takes for granted) < 1588579035 312135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which things? < 1588579087 609813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, the glue level is the smallest number of total decisions that's been needed to reach a conflict or unit in the clause? Or something along those lines. < 1588579099 812090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably start by implementing a really simple heuristic for deletion and then jam it up later. < 1588579386 774353 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah glue level and clause activities ... I'm not sure into how much detail Oh's paper goes been some time since I read it < 1588579458 580354 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588579826 332264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I'll look at this more closely soon. < 1588579828 515488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks! < 1588580966 534923 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588582802 233151 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://oeis.org/A000001 < 1588582888 597486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://oeis.org/A182105 < 1588582942 568770 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://oeis.org/A003075 < 1588583060 937621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad so few terms are given. < 1588583195 27850 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :computing two more was hard enough ;) < 1588583197 81397 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Do you know how names are sorted? < 1588583207 926440 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me half a year of fulltime work essentially < 1588583226 985578 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Oh, you're cited there. < 1588583232 828279 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good OEIS entry. < 1588583245 828892 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588583274 57186 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :still need to write the paper on how I did it, but can't find time :( < 1588583294 461178 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588583294 659503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's recent too. < 1588583297 245591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neato. < 1588583669 460822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know. Wizards is unlikeley to have published those internal procedures, and I haven't tried to reverse engineer them. < 1588584111 568434 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588584285 14789 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a "InnerBorder" column to specify the border, although if it is null, then it will be determined automatically. I should add a procedure into the major template to calculate this; it can then be called by different rendering templates to decide which border to render, and may also be usable by the major template too, in order to decide collector numbers, I suppose. < 1588584408 634854 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The values of the "ConvManaCost" and "ColorIdentity" columns are automatically set by the "auto." procedure (meant to be called by the user), and that procedure is also meant to assign collector numbers (I can use the ROW_NUMBER window function), although that part isn't implemented yet. < 1588584609 796672 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588584637 307974 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588584711 661058 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588584727 433117 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588585317 18437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can override that for silly stuff like Transguild Courier < 1588585362 119764 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you describe how that works? < 1588585363 823661 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588585395 656295 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do intend to probably allow the card database to contain a user variable which defines how collector numbers are assigned; if it exists, it will use that instead of the default. < 1588585467 584637 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can also just avoid using the auto. procedure if you want to assign converted mana costs, color identities, and collector numbers manually.) < 1588585673 773465 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at Transguild Courier, and if you mean the frame, then you can already override the frame. < 1588585981 454188 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it look like Transguild Courier is grouped with the artifacts even though it has a gold frame. I also seem to remember that MSE ignores the frame and uses only the mana cost, although I don't know how accurate that is. < 1588588833 166641 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588590305 354911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I'm talking about computing the Courier's color and frame. The stupid errata where he had a 5-color color indicator (not representable in print because of the stupid decision that a color indicator is one bullet even for two colors) has been reverted (for a reprint), < 1588590343 834908 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588590390 313990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the Courier is now omnicolored only because of his characteristic-changing abil. You can't guess his color autom'lly from his mana cost. < 1588590435 462334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That plus there are cards with devoid. < 1588591905 290719 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588592112 924351 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588592118 384527 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588592931 305351 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588593357 467910 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo83: I love Mitrofanov's study! < 1588593482 666918 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588593510 821910 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1588593864 633141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HGFTSNOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71675&oldid=71208 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* String indexing */ < 1588594225 791361 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588594343 22380 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588594594 308022 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588594650 834478 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1588595429 380113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71676&oldid=71670 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+175) 10/* 2 */ < 1588598724 568648 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588599110 519913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71677&oldid=71676 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Interpreter in HGFTSNOA */ < 1588601762 838145 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588602084 685752 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: hey, just sent you an e-mail > 1588603517 273627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71678&oldid=71662 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Languages */ > 1588603604 921194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71679&oldid=71677 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10/* Interpreter in {something ?} */ < 1588605450 217628 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay, you've send me an OpenPGP-encrypted mail (which I was able to decrypt), but didn't send an pubkey to encrypt, and I wasn't able to fetch your key from the keyservers, and I wasn't able to fetch a *currently valid* key via WKD, hm. (all keys retrievable via WKD were expired) < 1588605515 135099 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: I did not intend to do that. I'm using protonmail. They must have automatically encrypted it for some reason? < 1588605569 205804 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time I've encountered that < 1588605708 791605 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out that 'indirect BF' would probably require either BigNums or relative addressing (changed it to relative addressing for now). BF seems to have a direct equivalent in indirect BF, but that only works if the initial indirection is zero. Maybe it would be a good idea to add some operation which is able to deterministically and always reset the indirection to zero... > 1588605717 19457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07&brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71680 5* 03Orby 5* (+1606) 10Creating reference bf < 1588605823 877271 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there are two variants: unbounded cells with absolute addressing; and bounded cells with relative addressing... < 1588606102 724056 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: well, I think the model should use unbounded tape and unbounded positive cells with absolute addressing. Implementation can just use a tape of 65536 16-bit unsigned cells, or whatevs. But I think absolute addressing is important. < 1588606196 720966 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can show you the snippets of an implementation in C that I wrote that might make it clearer what I mean < 1588606238 582866 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.forder.cc/ufowonijej.cs < 1588606258 456713 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the pseudocode > 1588606391 840558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07&brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71681&oldid=71680 5* 03Zseri 5* (+54) 10 < 1588606425 461371 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool < 1588606476 996642 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to the *, & syntax because I'm really interested in [*] and I think writing [{] looks really strange < 1588606591 107475 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative addressing makes writing programs more complicated, but makes writing interpreters and compilers easier, and practically the pointer doesn't "jump back" to 0 with every indirection on a pre-filled cell (=0), but instead just stays there... < 1588606661 355780 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would be possible to build a compiler that transforms programs from one form to the other, which would be really non-trivial to do manually... < 1588606705 396027 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the absolute addressing model, but if you're interested in relative addressing by all means explore it and write about it on the wiki page < 1588606723 630759 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converting between the two could be really hard < 1588606823 520598 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :A really interesting implementation detail is what happens when you modify a cell that is part of the indirection chain < 1588606880 7621 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about converting) yep, but possible as long as no I/O is involved. Would probably require a execution or simulation of the whole thing, tho.... < 1588606885 882642 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. tape is 1 2 3 0, indirection is 4, data pointer is 0, what does < do? > 1588606930 321557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71682&oldid=69821 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+37) 10/* Survey */ + Unary and rearange < 1588607003 303605 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably set cell 0 = 0, then the selected cell would stay the same... Or have I messed up the indirection count? > 1588607034 581386 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71683&oldid=71679 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-830) 10/* 2 */ < 1588607036 488948 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I agree > 1588607048 709253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Regimin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71684 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1434) 10Created page with "'''Regimin''' is a minimal 2D Turing-complete esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Program format== The program is expected to be a perfect square. Whitespace is ign..." > 1588607091 678516 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71685&oldid=71661 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* R */ + [[Regimin]] < 1588607093 717897 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ensuring that the interpreter does that correctly is tricky > 1588607114 413842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71686&oldid=71678 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+45) 10/* Languages */ < 1588607139 891916 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be archieved by caching the pointer before accessing/modifying the cell. < 1588607212 195781 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, I think I've also handled that behavior correctly in the snippet I posted < 1588608419 443554 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588608470 952045 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1588608492 863125 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588608514 334047 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588609156 883287 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1588609212 4856 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1588609222 4212 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric > 1588610112 375993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71687 5* 03Zseri 5* (+2166) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Befinde |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:zseri]] |year=[[:Category:2020|2020]] |typesys=static |memsys=tape-based |dimensions=one-dimensional |cla..." > 1588610134 361951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71688&oldid=71687 5* 03Zseri 5* (+0) 10 > 1588610169 104431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71689&oldid=71688 5* 03Zseri 5* (+0) 10 > 1588610212 527242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71690&oldid=71685 5* 03Zseri 5* (+14) 10/* B */ +Befinde > 1588610229 865379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71691&oldid=71689 5* 03Zseri 5* (+2) 10 > 1588610786 870856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71692&oldid=71691 5* 03Zseri 5* (+37) 10 < 1588610919 504925 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588611117 842580 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588611310 810162 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588611591 179294 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588611609 393214 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric > 1588612096 773054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71693&oldid=71692 5* 03Zseri 5* (+227) 10/* BF translation */ alternative BF translation < 1588613445 79922 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I have actually already thought of devoid and "~ is [colors]" abilities, but only if they are the first ability of the card. Although I think a color indicator is better for that particular use anyways. The frame can already be overridden anyways, although it does affect color identity (which is easier to compute when a color indicator is used instead). < 1588613829 382775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: first ability only? could work. Valiant Changeling for some reason has a self type changing ability as non-first ability -- I don't know why they ordered it that way, since that ability acts in all zones < 1588613861 952688 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/artifact/33f11dfdacc8b9d2 You can see here how color identity is computed. Color indicators (entered as part of the type line) are considered, although abilities currently aren't considered. < 1588613942 598802 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides devoid cards and Transguild Courier, I think the only card with a characteristic-changing ability that changes its color is Ghostfire < 1588613979 781207 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, actually, considering abilities other than the first probably wouldn't be too difficult to do, anyways. < 1588614062 123803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evermind, Ancestral Vision, Wheel of Fate, Living End, and the future sight Pacts are errataed to have color indicators < 1588614126 23634 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1588614228 248116 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I am intending this mainly for custom cards, although custom sets can include reprints of official cards too. < 1588614323 121767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, these are existing examples < 1588614340 990067 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588614352 835246 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588614373 263229 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is good to know, though. < 1588614457 649251 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an interesting puzzle. Is &brainfuck tc using only []*& ? < 1588614465 446110 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the file I linked? If there is a mistake in it, then hopefully you can tell me what mistake you found. < 1588614931 844713 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588615019 610510 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl and Elixir are the same language, change my mind. < 1588615065 666041 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They both use immutable values, but have units of mutability that cannot be garbage collected. < 1588615065 835936 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about that. < 1588615096 919403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588615111 37712 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know Elixir well enough to say. < 1588615195 174232 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang? < 1588615304 270022 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I don't think so, because you need at least one non-zero cell to navigate. < 1588615423 244223 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :*> is sufficient to emulate 3 star programmer < 1588615466 227831 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I guess you need a loop too < 1588615469 145642 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :so []*> < 1588616121 955714 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588616752 693604 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be quite interesting to implement an 3SP interpreter including the output extension in &bf (easier) or befinde (harder bc relative addressing)... < 1588616787 898499 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does 3SP halt when dereferencing 0? < 1588616788 433775 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588616850 373375 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the halting condition? < 1588617214 779371 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the halting condition would be something similiar to: no cell changed and no output was produced, both in the last cycle < 1588617230 936883 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that means nothing can change anymore. < 1588617302 65091 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. second cell must be even, all cells should be hashed or such... the translation should reserve some bookkeeping memory for that... < 1588617351 454003 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be cool to write higher level programs in it, or at least have a compiler that transforms higher-level programs into indirect BF... < 1588617398 327473 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :&bf and befinde should be easy to compile to, 3sp is some next level shit < 1588617432 722656 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to do anything constructive in 3sp < 1588617450 942076 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's even known if it's tc < 1588617641 773891 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be cool to compile 3SP -> indirect BF, tho. < 1588617800 881766 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. read number from input 2. select cell 3. apply indirection 4. '>' 5. undo indirection ... the difficult parts are: reserve memory for a hash or parity sum of the other cells and calculate that... < 1588617890 912966 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "no change" is the halting condition. Won't the increment guarantee that there's always a change? < 1588618042 873462 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another language that is probably easy to emulate in &bf and befinde is cyclic tag < 1588618657 965108 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another interesting thought: in &bf < isn't really necessary if there are infinitely many zeros on the tape because you can [>]* to start at the begining of the tape again < 1588618688 893015 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588619023 883504 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588619116 96047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71694&oldid=71599 5* 03Orby 5* (+71) 10 < 1588619270 841584 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588619317 306678 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this regular expression is suitable for finding characteristic defining abilities which define the color of the card? (^|\n\n)(\~|This [a-z]+) is( (and )?(white|blue|black|red|green|all colors),?)*\.(\n\n|$) < 1588619340 85589 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other than devoid) < 1588619382 425268 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I forgot "colorless" < 1588619672 374814 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588620560 523228 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588620920 15253 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588621096 309259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07&brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71695&oldid=71681 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* See also */ > 1588621120 489236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71696&oldid=71693 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* See also */ < 1588621599 968742 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588622116 905865 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588622275 329005 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 52 ^ 34 < 1588622275 495568 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 2.20858e58 < 1588622296 697571 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 52^34 < 1588622299 288823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22085827895139816776239946565283164870185114992726805315584 < 1588622338 105955 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588622416 423704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python3 -eprint(float(52)**34, "==", 52**34) < 1588622418 581528 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: -e \ usage: python3 [option] ... [-c cmd | -m mod | file | -] [arg] ... \ Try `python -h' for more information. < 1588622421 903596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python3 -cprint(float(52)**34, "==", 52**34) < 1588622423 207104 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2085827895139817e+58 == 22085827895139816776239946565283164870185114992726805315584 < 1588622483 68422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine 52.0 does the trick as well. < 1588622489 212343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1588622496 245182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python3 -cprint(52.0**34, "==", 52**34) < 1588622497 31599 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2085827895139817e+58 == 22085827895139816776239946565283164870185114992726805315584 > 1588622541 89860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07&brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71697&oldid=71695 5* 03Orby 5* (+94) 10Adding reference implementation < 1588622861 902679 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588623108 630507 :PsDw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588623194 888875 :psdw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588623327 909415 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: befinde has a trivial way to return to the start: [<]; I think *[<]& would be sufficient to let the current cell point at zero; equivalent to 'get me to zero' of (your code in &bf) in Befinde would be *[&>*] > 1588623467 405748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71698&oldid=71696 5* 03Zseri 5* (+145) 10+Patterns < 1588623496 789672 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, &bf has a similar construction: wrap your program like "*> program &", then any time inside the program you want to reset the data pointer just do &[*<&]* < 1588623511 272488 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically memory maps the data pointer to 0 < 1588623681 333409 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my implementation (and befinde is optimized to be easy to implement) mapping the data pointer even simplified the implementation and made the behavoir more consistent. < 1588623812 553409 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I can see how that would be < 1588623843 772528 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588623888 289491 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your thought of removing indirection from [ and ] is interesting < 1588623898 317649 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588623956 692544 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make much of a difference, but it is more consistent with the rest of the commands, because no other command has such implicit indirection. < 1588624011 913252 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1588624021 615584 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, is there a way to reset the indirection back to zero, without invoking UB or crashing the interpreter? < 1588624045 531106 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :not after [*] < 1588624111 399985 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a way of thinking about indirect bf as not needing & at all < 1588624140 774200 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say * replaces the data pointer with the value of the current cell > 1588624145 544829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71699&oldid=71698 5* 03Zseri 5* (+15) 10/* Useful patterns */ < 1588624188 79646 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are bf variants that have this command < 1588624233 71822 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are a lot of ways of thinking of *>[] as tc < 1588624250 787437 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every invocation of that command would make the control flow more difficult, because you could accidentially modify a cell that is part of the dereference chain... < 1588624306 996391 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean eliminate the concept of the chain completely. Instead of having indirection levels, just have * copy the value of the current cell to the data pointer. < 1588624321 117572 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to reverse it < 1588624349 375277 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some ways this concept is cleaner, or at least easier to implement, but in other ways it's not as nice conceptually > 1588624408 791270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befinde14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71700&oldid=71699 5* 03Zseri 5* (-18) 10/* Useful patterns */ < 1588624411 51759 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic brainfuck has this < 1588624430 513152 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. > 1588624496 312090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07&brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71701&oldid=71697 5* 03Orby 5* (+25) 10 < 1588624527 640465 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic bf also has the opposite (something roughly equivalent to &), but without the chaining. < 1588624547 603967 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, unfortunately they're not actually inverses of each other in symbolic bf < 1588624564 431537 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588624572 396375 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :*& in symbolic bf doesn't actually restore the original state < 1588624630 409617 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted a bf variant with reference and dereference where the operators were actually inverses. If you change the looping construct in &bf to match the looping construct in Reversible BF, then &bf is reversible, too < 1588624665 502546 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true of symbolic bf < 1588624802 44167 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :befinde can also be made to be reversible in the same way < 1588624860 819209 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :just patch up the looping construct, then to reverse a program just reverse the string replacing [ with ], ] with [, & with *, * with &, > with <, and < with > < 1588624887 727994 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice property < 1588625080 375743 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure about [ and ] ? I don't think simple string replacing in the way you described would be enough. You need to keep the branching information. And the indirection makes a correct implementation of the parts which depend on the raw value of a cell more difficult... < 1588625092 237006 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588625109 896301 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588625203 892008 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished subtraction logic unit and ALU, halfway through conditionals/ < 1588625213 43491 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you need to change the behavior of the loop. Enter on non-zero, loop on zero instead of Enter on non-zero, loop on non-zero. < 1588625332 601644 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588625675 634677 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38? < 1588625706 225383 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm nearly ready to publish it to esolangs.org, do you have any tips on formatting or the like? < 1588625795 176262 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay, does &brainfuck have I/O? < 1588625838 13215 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588625859 341836 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588626177 584670 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, up to the implementation but not required < 1588626189 402384 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588626208 410160 :psdw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: psdw < 1588626331 713575 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: You can read the MediaWiki documentation if you need to know about formatting < 1588626348 782763 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, could I have a link to that? < 1588626474 974693 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Formatting < 1588626492 108358 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1588626603 732064 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the codeblock? < 1588626649 287265 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it < 1588626690 329404 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can add a space at the beginning of each line, is one way < 1588626719 668038 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588626969 558105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder if I should enable the SyntaxHighlight extension. It's been bundled with MediaWiki for quite a while now. < 1588626974 365027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess most of our code blocks aren't in any generally known language though. But it allows automated line numbering and highlighting, which might be sometimes useful. < 1588627063 706549 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not, because I think that such a thing can be done by the user (I also wrote a specification for doing that). < 1588627782 38810 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of a idea: Each player chooses a creature, and then each of those creatures gains flanking until end of turn. < 1588627802 165849 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This could also be used with shadow.) < 1588628251 989542 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588628660 804357 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588629151 444475 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: poke < 1588629164 208688 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have any advice on getting a working assembler for the VAX? < 1588629173 240045 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I don't know. < 1588629176 395800 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've been trying to get 4.3BSD installed in SIMH, but it doesn't seem to like me) < 1588629184 483221 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have never programmed in VAX) < 1588629187 798588 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1588630871 906966 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588631001 19168 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I fixed it so that it detects abilities such as "~ is all colors" < 1588632269 868920 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588633049 935088 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1588633093 439734 :bob1!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1588633098 175183 :bob1!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: NICK :orbitaldecay < 1588633101 665349 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588634478 815550 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588635284 410099 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588635342 771197 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588635455 570690 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1588636077 928689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71702&oldid=71683 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+76) 10 < 1588636286 237948 :orbitaldecay!~bob@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1588636347 888951 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588636658 641885 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a machine comprised of an infinite number of finite-state automata Turing Complete? < 1588636681 284428 :Antebrationist!ca9a832e@202-154-131-46.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking an infinite cellular automata of sorts.