< 1593479915 931213 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593484370 956395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74720&oldid=74716 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+45) 10Update memsys > 1593484391 205159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74721&oldid=74720 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+0) 10Capitalize < 1593487138 706259 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1593487222 941155 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593487437 317158 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593489108 851358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74722&oldid=73893 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+6) 10/* Instruction set */ > 1593489382 950740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74723&oldid=74722 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+56) 10 < 1593489402 81692 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1593489414 94986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74724&oldid=74723 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (-2) 10 < 1593489439 407528 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric > 1593491318 619050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74725&oldid=72702 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (-27) 10The idea that brainfuck has a tape is an old mistake based on conflating it with a Turing machine. > 1593491379 776175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74726&oldid=74725 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+11) 10 < 1593491648 928659 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593493647 189819 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593494334 507963 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593499991 600010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1593499993 982482 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is peeping Tom. < 1593500005 372128 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl password < 1593500006 275734 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/password < 1593500034 460611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The potm was more fun with oerjan... < 1593501871 917366 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593503068 373834 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593503282 967872 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593503736 910403 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593504039 140611 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593504165 518414 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593506042 120168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-40.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1593506320 698115 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hztufipkkhhpuymn QUIT :Quit: killed < 1593506330 8248 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dktmjpgroigzogmo QUIT :Quit: killed < 1593506330 115066 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lqllbqqtknjzvyzo QUIT :Quit: killed < 1593506460 406494 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I have some questions about the reduction you wrote in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Brainfuck#Would_BF_still_be_TC_with_do-while_loops.3F about 5 years ago < 1593506579 100885 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593506581 141264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1593506597 967562 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593506784 427673 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have no recollection of this :P < 1593506830 228297 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it widely assumed in research papers that, while the set of while-programs is Turing complete, the set of repeat-programs (aka do-while-programs) isn't. I've never seen it proved one way or the other though. < 1593506847 45907 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593506864 405945 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593506869 492893 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have made a reduction that reportedly works for at least brainfuck. < 1593507058 805438 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess my first question is, have you ever seen a proof like this in a paper? < 1593507068 92543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen such a claim. < 1593507170 434450 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mdkjepipvteopeeb JOIN :#esoteric < 1593507218 569615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inspiration for the reduction was really just that when we keep a flag of whether we're supposed to execute operations or not, then we can use that to control effects and undo them when needed. < 1593507235 777704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't recall any inspiration from the literature. < 1593507418 340208 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone solve the do/while thing yet? < 1593507484 378946 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck has an array, but I don't think that was essential for this idea to work out. < 1593507547 111662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure. Do you have a concrete language in mind? The actual operations kind of matter. < 1593507559 197108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I/O is a bit iffy. < 1593507616 111898 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Hoare's 1969 paper he concocts a "language of while programs" for demonstrating his axiomatic semantics stuff. < 1593507661 270551 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wang also used a similar/the same language in some papers. < 1593507682 275946 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's basically become A Staple of proglang semantics texts. < 1593507743 172958 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on the observation that, if you have "while", you don't need "if", "for", "do-while", etc. < 1593507764 288370 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main issue is that you don't get a proper conditional. Instead, any code that wants to be executed conditionally has to be painstakingly instrumented to not have any effect based on some condition. < 1593507773 422888 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The main issue with do-while) < 1593507794 689615 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or be reversible, yeah < 1593507808 274354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in the case of Brainfuck without I/O that instrumentation is possible. < 1593507826 819314 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow how does that instrumentation work? that is a different approach than I tohught of < 1593507853 912592 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: see the link cpressey posted above, where this discussion started. < 1593507908 220002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which has a translation for >.< that works by accident.) < 1593507960 842109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I guess that also rules out any proper recursion (where a function would eventually call itself again). < 1593507965 155287 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could believe that everyone just adopted "while" programs and ignored "do-while" programs because it was easy to show that "while" was universal (in this sense) and people just didn't care about "do-while" programs because they already had their example language for semantics < 1593507978 385772 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So for *practical* programming, do-while is certainly not sufficient. < 1593507978 601264 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1593507983 267658 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's super interesting < 1593508033 943896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from there to the claim that this may not even be TC... that's a long stretch. < 1593508037 170265 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :far stretch? < 1593508046 353192 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need to implement reversibility to make it work, but reversible computing didn't really become a studied thing until much later < 1593508049 699698 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im certain it's TC < 1593508055 824008 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's very interesting that this is not trivial to show < 1593508081 18608 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a proof of it in the literature, it might be in the reversible computing literature < 1593508105 288381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that brainfuck thing is certainly not reversible < 1593508127 113219 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you just said something about undoing what it just did though < 1593508141 554679 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I mean by reversible in this instance < 1593508151 40599 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking maybe you could translate reversible-bitfuck ==> doBF < 1593508153 837475 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually it seems kinda hard < 1593508158 691357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but that's on the level of a single brainfuck operation. < 1593508168 770867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+, -, >, <. < 1593508180 486883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] do non-reversible things. < 1593508181 25211 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |spelling error < 1593508181 133203 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: | and ] do non-reversible things. < 1593508181 133255 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: | ^ < 1593508185 521476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: thanks < 1593508186 59641 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |value error: thanks < 1593508200 486698 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1593508261 919030 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1593508293 853467 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting that it does complain about things but not the rest, though < 1593508318 688587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And it's really inspiration. Look at what + does: it adds 1 to the flag (so now it's 1 or 2), adds the result to the actual cell and a temporary one (because brainfuck), then subtracts 1 from the result, copies the temp back to the flag, and then subtracts 1 from the flag again. < 1593508370 656556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is reversible, of course. But the main reason for that is that Brainfuck's + operation itself is reversible. < 1593508432 183714 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, first things first: in a do-while bf, could you easily clone a cell? < 1593508471 347785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume you have non-negative values only, then just add 1 first, and in the end remove 1 from the clones. < 1593508554 232563 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps start one level below that: +[-] resets a cell to 0. < 1593508599 456745 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, sounds reasonable. so let's assume 0/1 only, then you could replace a + in a do-while with [+{go to condition clone}-]-, couldn't you? < 1593508603 113951 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that page Rdebath also reports that they've used the reduction to translate some non-trivial brainfuck programs to Do-While-Brainfuck, and run them on their Do-While-Brainfuck interpreter successfully. < 1593508619 487513 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While not a proof, it's pretty good evidence that the reduction is mostly not broken. < 1593508628 922959 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah this is the main reason why I'm fairly confident that this works :) < 1593508645 842570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because as you can also see in that discussion, I got some details wrong at first. < 1593508659 962614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd have to check the page history for details, not inclinded to do that.) < 1593508691 656132 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: couldn't tgey just reduce the bf interpreter in bf to do-whie-bf? < 1593508737 500420 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck's +-<> are reversible, but if you had to do it in a language with non-reversible things like "a := b + 5", you could implement reversibility in the reduction (i.e. in this case, save the old value of a on a stack or smth) < 1593508752 76079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: note that there's no translation for ',', and the translation for '.' produces extra NUL outputs when "skipped". < 1593508771 28492 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad < 1593508785 638400 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need multi-tape bf with the input on the second tape :> < 1593508811 333396 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "while programs" don't usually have I/O either < 1593508811 978086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unavoidable, really... you have to make I/O primitives conditional in the language if you want a proper I/O-conforming reduction. < 1593508855 937758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for the usual interactive programming model we have for terminals. < 1593508880 68477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess s=programming=I/O= < 1593509264 216731 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fhljscldospjkgxl JOIN :#esoteric < 1593509264 360578 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-twuwtstkkxjlkjxm JOIN :#esoteric < 1593510035 816066 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: You were talking about squarefree words the other day. Apparently the language of squarefree words is context-free, but not deterministic-context-free? Apparently there is also no concrete example of a context-free grammar for a non-deterministic-context-free language? < 1593510073 324969 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is from the WP article on PEG parsing. The former is from me trying to find an example of a CFG for a non-DCFL in the literature :) < 1593510101 259784 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to work on my own projects, but I keep stumbling across open questions that I can't believe are open questions and they distract me < 1593510155 888450 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1593510174 654792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What does "deterministic" mean here, and shouldn't any inherently ambiguous context-free language fit that bill? So, say, {a^n b^m c^k | n = m or m = k}? < 1593510254 859960 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "deterministic" means there is a deterministic PDA that parses it, the usual meaning < 1593510306 290092 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: can you give a grammar equivalent to {a^n b^m c^k | n = m or m = k} ? < 1593510315 839250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, automata. < 1593510373 573014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: S -> AB C | A BC; AB -> a AB b | e; C -> c C | e; A -> a A | e; BC -> b BC c | e < 1593510376 951860 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1593510389 872407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e for empty string) < 1593510491 747498 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, wait it's a bit more subtle than that. < 1593510492 865840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitively, it should work, since basically you'll have to decide up front whether you want to count the a's (to compare to the number of b's) or the b's (to compare to the number of c's). < 1593510504 127147 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ambiguous is not quite the same thing as nondeterministic. < 1593510617 392152 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i am still looking for a topic for a master thesis :p < 1593510620 437372 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :S -> "x" S "x" | "x" is the example they give for nondeterministic but not ambiguous. < 1593510621 664292 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a deterministic PDA give rise to an unambiguous grammar? < 1593510644 668352 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deterministic implies unambiguous though, I'm pretty sure < 1593510680 66488 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The open question is "to give a concrete example of a context-free language which cannot be recognized by a parsing expression grammar." PEGs are deterministic. < 1593510685 759181 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then by contraposition, inherently unambiguous languages don't have deterministic PDAs. < 1593510719 327025 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think you mean inherently ambiguous? < 1593510733 809266 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :S -> x S x | x has the problem that the same language is also generated by S -> x x S | x < 1593510741 689609 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp yes. < 1593510744 946838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes., < 1593510802 101109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder how that happens... sometimes tabs end up in the IRC message rather than being treated by the irssi input box. Maybe if they arrive in the same packet as the final return?) < 1593510829 144839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in test. < 1593510844 941091 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not. < 1593511076 797233 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593511090 445187 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593511347 184218 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593511364 16138 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593511369 7064 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehm. It seems PEG has a "not" operator... < 1593511400 681844 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1593511405 170478 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1593511446 428681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive and negative lookaheads, and curiously one can define only a negative one and get a positive as a double negative for free < 1593511447 723184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEGs have backtracking. < 1593511482 5526 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as the recognized *language* is concerned, there's no distinction between e1 / e2 and e1 | e2. < 1593511520 814084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is only apparent when you look at parse trees. < 1593511538 961457 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593511549 791908 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think there were things with / making some things unparsable when you switch operands? < 1593511601 187897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why? < 1593511610 455400 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1593511614 216265 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t think I remember it correctly < 1593511632 237499 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moin < 1593511633 468417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I get back to making my parser thing I’ll re-read a couple of articles < 1593511652 842219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :e1 / e2 and e2 / e1 should accept the same things, just potentially with different parse trees. < 1593511660 861174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1593511679 319681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do remember the set of languages is not smaller than context-free < 1593511725 508378 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don’t think I formulated that thing above in the right words, yeah < 1593511727 505555 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'm missing is this: though PEG is determinstic, it might be able to recognize some or all non-deterministic CFLs, because it has more machinery in it than a PDA. < 1593511734 344488 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question about trading card games. Do there exist randomized booster packs of collectible cards where the same packs have both normal and oversized cards? < 1593511770 691644 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'd be some logistical difficulties: either they have to add an extra strip of packaging to secure the normal cards, or fold the oversized cards in half. < 1593511809 22142 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As applications, I'm thinking mostly of games like Heartstone where you have a leader/commander that you never shuffle into decks and so can be oversized and even double-sided for free. < 1593511863 225 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just pack the normal sized cards side by side? < 1593511897 448233 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, instead of one double-sized card and a single stack of 8, just put 2 stacks of 4 in the package < 1593511929 17991 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I don't think so, that would lead to physical damage to the cards before you open it < 1593511965 832199 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :packing side by side works if you secure them somehow, like with two extra strips, or a rigid holder for products more expensive than a booster pack < 1593511984 64560 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you may need a separator. or you could print the cards in a small case to pop them out < 1593512003 47314 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if you do add two extra strips to separate them, that could work < 1593512013 962003 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's better than just one strip and cards on one side though < 1593512030 659206 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric : e1 / e2 and e2 / e1 should accept the same things, just potentially with different parse trees. <=== the WP article gives a counterexample where the ordering does affect the language recognized < 1593512064 308907 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd think its better to actually transport that because of increased stacking potential < 1593512115 576960 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: or because of less damage to the oversized cards, yes < 1593512151 833610 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though right now I'm thinking more of folded oversized cards: you can fold them safely if they add some partial depth perforations at printing because they don't need to be shuffled < 1593512180 894373 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hate them because they tend to never stay flat later < 1593512274 969048 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1593512346 344448 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I guess make it an oversized card or two plus two small stacks of normal cards on the sides secured with two extra packaging straps that are glued or heat sealed to the seams of the package at its sides < 1593512392 525667 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more expensive to prepare manufacturing than ordinary booster packs of course, so it's worth only if you use the oversized cards well < 1593512396 713868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :join the cards together with perforation, upset all your customers :P < 1593512421 434963 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about that, too < 1593512434 596975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I bet people will be annoyed and worry about cheating when the card borders aren't all smooth < 1593512437 563263 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1593512437 670933 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly together but to a small strip in the middle < 1593512463 606466 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, people that do that tend to use card sleaves anyway < 1593512468 8320 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm < 1593512490 428483 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: but not necessarily opaque sleeves < 1593512566 182607 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :marketing has to appeal to players who want to consider collecting and don't yet want to buy a ton of opaque sleeves, since they cost more than thin transparent sleeves < 1593512575 912943 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593512590 984908 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593512617 934343 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1593512669 832484 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593512751 999744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Actually I guess if you'd make a pre-stenciled frame for a pair of cards held in just two points, people might be happy enough. It works for cardboard playing pieces in many commercial board games after all. < 1593512805 673740 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mdkjepipvteopeeb QUIT :Quit: Idle for 30+ days < 1593512842 855675 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody here has an opinion about zenonzard? < 1593512850 58221 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: are those cardboard playing pieces that need to be shuffled and then indistinguishable, without putting them inside a fancy scrabble bag? < 1593512865 709757 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carcassone tiles come pre-cut so they look the same < 1593513054 361998 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593513078 417245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: As I recall it they come in a cardboard grame but are all attached to that the same way (just two spots, easy to break). < 1593513097 736004 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the square root of the language of squarefree words < 1593513105 167166 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe Carcassonne was an exception. I don't know this for any specific game. < 1593513116 995007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: irrational < 1593513148 770051 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593513165 533000 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593513191 747691 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" [...] Apparently there is also no concrete example of a context-free grammar for a non-deterministic-context-free language?" => s -> a | c; a -> epsilon | C a | D a | A a B a; c -> epsilon | A c | B c | C c D c; the language of strings where either A and B are balanced matching parenthesis or C and D are balanced matching parenthesis. < 1593513278 125691 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait.... < 1593513288 347544 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that can be parsed with a deterministic machine? let me think < 1593513451 117064 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think it can't be. without backtracking or arbitrary lookahead you can't tell which of AB or CD will match, so if a long prefix of the string has both AB and CD balanced so far, then the state plus stack of the machine would have to track both the depth of A and the depth of C of the prefix, be able to increment and decrement either at any < 1593513451 577136 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time depending on the input, and a stack machine can't do that. < 1593513585 597832 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is effectively the trick I want to use to make Consumer Society intrinsically nondeterministic context free, though I use a larger alphabet < 1593513593 764116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: woah, using lower case for non-terminals and upper case for terminals is confusing. < 1593513612 760791 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sorry < 1593513630 475440 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that's the way at least one book notates then < 1593513632 50516 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :them < 1593513652 212698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always somebody that breaks the conventions FOR NO GOOD REASON < 1593513670 916121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make it right :P < 1593513715 237035 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, make it S -> A | C; A -> epsilon | c A | d A | a A b A; C -> epsilon | a C | b C | c C d C; the language of strings where either a and b are balanced matching parenthesis or c and d are balanced matching parenthesis. < 1593513755 370241 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: de Bruijn indices, except they're for nonterminals < 1593513772 333565 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, yes, I know) < 1593513804 652029 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is true for Consumer Society only if you look at it at just the right level, because after parsing it is Turing-complete and so it's uncomputable to determine if the program will run into a semantic error at runtime < 1593514047 367561 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593514291 904363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm < 1593514873 405477 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593515678 884322 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593515868 292738 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593517038 34578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74727&oldid=74693 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-2155) 10disaster > 1593517297 176812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74728&oldid=74727 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+130) 10+nums > 1593517360 338335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74729&oldid=74728 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+8) 10+
s < 1593517419 806875 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1593517488 408797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74730&oldid=74729 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+229) 10+sign nums > 1593517819 111198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74731&oldid=74730 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+404) 10+chars > 1593518120 641548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74732&oldid=74731 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+259) 10+upchars > 1593518700 289958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74733&oldid=74732 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+1315) 10+godchars > 1593518939 280078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74734&oldid=74733 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+47) 10fix > 1593519036 514307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74735&oldid=74734 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+12) 10+see > 1593519132 967243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74736&oldid=74735 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+34) 10+see > 1593519422 101752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:SASM14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74737 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+74) 10Created page with "Why does this exist? --~~~~" > 1593519446 173439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74738&oldid=74724 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10/* Implementations */ cat > 1593519563 946963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Snowflake14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74739&oldid=74614 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+14) 10 > 1593519804 917132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TECO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74740&oldid=74718 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593520167 820677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74741&oldid=74440 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-3402) 10I actually finished it > 1593521366 805279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74742&oldid=74719 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+965) 10 > 1593521853 47389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74743&oldid=68579 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+92) 10cats,misc > 1593521898 636573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74744&oldid=74743 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10 < 1593521920 530890 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593521982 471533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74745&oldid=74744 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+64) 10cafts > 1593522677 608249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74746&oldid=74509 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+814) 10/* Computational class */ Sketch what the reduction would look like > 1593522765 782189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74747&oldid=74746 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+277) 10Add command table. > 1593522819 361605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nil14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74748&oldid=65572 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+77) 10/* External resources */ cats > 1593522882 40968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Etcha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74749&oldid=40945 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+46) 10This language is Turing-complete. > 1593522984 918363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74750&oldid=72070 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10/* 6969 Assembler */ cats > 1593523110 156117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74751&oldid=74742 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1279) 10Blanked the page > 1593523134 210146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74752 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1494) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''something positive''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Overview== something positive is a [[string]]-[[rewriting]] language. Programs take..." > 1593523151 983064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74753&oldid=74752 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1593523179 35349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74754&oldid=74714 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* S */ > 1593523255 850727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Solo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74755&oldid=74351 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* Interpreter in C (solo.h) */ > 1593523293 442365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74756&oldid=74715 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+60) 10/* Languages */ > 1593523502 640637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74757&oldid=74753 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+105) 10/* Examples */ > 1593523538 727449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74758&oldid=74757 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Overview */ > 1593523596 271082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74759&oldid=8592 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+45) 10dstnguish > 1593523603 556900 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74760&oldid=74759 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593523664 745272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Machine code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74761&oldid=8591 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10user A lamnguage > 1593523735 152430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74762&oldid=68585 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10 > 1593524076 613076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74763&oldid=74741 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+3757) 10Language remastered > 1593524129 586903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74764&oldid=71021 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+49) 10disambiguate > 1593524162 317921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels (2017)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74765&oldid=52584 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+48) 10disambiguate > 1593524376 356047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74766&oldid=74763 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-3) 10fixed some bad grammar > 1593524585 887676 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels (2017)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74767&oldid=74765 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+400) 10Add computational class sketch. > 1593525165 715380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07V (FMota)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74768&oldid=50732 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+29) 10+year < 1593525437 868879 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/2309 esolanging much, eh? > 1593525449 540654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nhohnhehr14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74769&oldid=40957 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+41) 10+cat (We still don't know...) < 1593525764 681887 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1593526483 732143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74770&oldid=74308 5* 03Quadril-Is 5* (+48) 10 > 1593527078 901778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BSoD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74771&oldid=69355 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10/* Hello, World! */ cat > 1593527104 143610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BSoD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74772&oldid=74771 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593527242 177540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nestplate14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74773&oldid=57390 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10 > 1593527760 937608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74774&oldid=73258 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10 < 1593528738 9494 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1593529538 666872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74775&oldid=74766 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-131) 10fix < 1593530138 359538 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Quittin'. > 1593530146 752882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Marbelous14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74776&oldid=55527 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+37) 10/* Examples */ cat < 1593530242 332347 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric > 1593530546 991500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74777&oldid=74775 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+648) 10+,const vars > 1593530655 486453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74778&oldid=74683 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+70) 10 > 1593531651 38996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Java'14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74779&oldid=72628 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+99) 10cats ++ bold ++ link > 1593531696 554128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GreenBerry14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74780&oldid=70800 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+49) 10/* External resources */ cats < 1593532067 496248 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593532214 487250 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593532223 836758 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 NICK :MDude < 1593532515 329341 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed > 1593532568 153970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74781&oldid=74777 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+290) 10+break bcause i'm lazy > 1593532598 814592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74782&oldid=74781 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-3) 10-spaces > 1593532609 706824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74783&oldid=74770 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1040) 10 > 1593532633 34928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74784&oldid=74783 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10 > 1593532645 823681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74785&oldid=74784 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10 > 1593532729 316467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74786&oldid=74782 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10/* Break */ links < 1593533459 254193 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593533474 434224 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593533475 940116 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 NICK :MDude < 1593536094 377001 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593536130 970286 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593536172 204730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74787&oldid=74690 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+406) 10/* Operator */ > 1593537031 324913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74788&oldid=74787 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+234) 10/* Operator */ > 1593537118 288857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74789&oldid=74786 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Memory management */ > 1593537364 122966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Java''14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74790&oldid=21447 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+122) 10stub + cats < 1593537439 777006 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593538027 73246 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:9c93:6313:d04a:1b1f QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593538281 442082 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:986b:bd92:f82:a7f8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593538537 800939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what control flow would you suggest for a language with values from the unit disc? (z ∈ C with |z| ≤ 1, though not arbitrary ones, to allow implementation: either usual float pairs, or cyclotomics, or something else) < 1593539396 291273 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:986b:bd92:f82:a7f8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex Fractran? :D < 1593539618 96998 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:986b:bd92:f82:a7f8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, you could do fractran on arbitrary number fields and interpret the word "integer" to mean "element of the ring of integers of the number field" < 1593540204 464383 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O > 1593542947 14165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Conditional brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74791&oldid=71597 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+127) 10cats + links + bold + fix headers > 1593543374 875292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07InterpretMe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74792&oldid=57700 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+97) 10cats > 1593543426 847167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ODDBALL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74793&oldid=58454 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+28) 10/* External resources */ cat > 1593543581 307265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HELP (Preprocessor)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74794&oldid=37175 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+119) 10cats + bold > 1593543623 751991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HELP (Preprocessor)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74795&oldid=74794 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* See also */ cux < 1593543853 727001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-183.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1593543865 377305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74796&oldid=64614 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10/* Computational Properties */ < 1593543939 363527 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1593543946 806672 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1593544509 412070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pointer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74797&oldid=8512 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+75) 10 < 1593544528 20098 :ZippyMagician!49db5189@c-73-219-81-137.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593544531 844247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74798&oldid=60471 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 < 1593544621 342722 :ZippyMagician!49db5189@c-73-219-81-137.hsd1.ct.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593544636 317138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74799&oldid=74798 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-38) 10/* Esotericization */ > 1593544667 373372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack/Manipulation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74800&oldid=46064 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10 > 1593544990 713819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74801&oldid=74785 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10 > 1593545177 287446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74802&oldid=74801 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2307) 10 < 1593545558 610763 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593545607 449463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74803&oldid=74802 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593545730 668365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74804&oldid=74803 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593546124 295779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74805&oldid=74804 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593546266 422008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74806&oldid=74726 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10 > 1593546392 73225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74807&oldid=74805 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10 < 1593546487 300381 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1593546537 980677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74808&oldid=74807 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10 < 1593546850 875436 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1593546911 660698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74809&oldid=74808 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-8) 10 < 1593547308 136561 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1593547983 843633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intolerant14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74810&oldid=34474 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Potential Errors */ cat > 1593547998 261479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intolerant14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74811&oldid=74810 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+20) 10 > 1593548659 485339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74812&oldid=74474 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (-132) 10 > 1593549437 351812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74813&oldid=74812 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+85) 10/* Computational class */ > 1593549983 316595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grime MC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74814&oldid=67949 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+33) 10/* External resources */ > 1593550021 123463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chespirito14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74815&oldid=74527 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10/* Implementation */ equiv->deriv + cats < 1593550104 77856 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any news since that old Baez post about whether there is a “golden type” Φ such that Φ² ≅ 1 + Φ with a natural isomorphism (natural like in seven trees in one)? > 1593550126 77512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74816&oldid=74788 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* kcufnairB */ < 1593550174 38073 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :an arithmetical error (alas!) and an unique type deliver the solution: (1 + U)² ≅ 1 + 2U ❝≅❞ 1 + (1 + U) (what was I thinking?!) < 1593550552 498891 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :double mistake: I thought this still gives a correct solution when U is a singleton, but no, U ≇ 1 for the same reason I remembered it here, becase of its square. And anyway that’d be boring: one wants to find an infinite Φ < 1593550652 621892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a natural isomorphism then Φ should be a functor, right? > 1593550914 115627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74817&oldid=74751 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+774) 10 < 1593551006 364336 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1593551612 666078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74818&oldid=74817 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* The blues instruction */ < 1593551667 74347 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtzjmtdtpzejvdpy QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593551672 934398 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: mm I don’t know if a concrete type may be a functor. In the tree case though, T = μx. T′x where T′ is indeed a functor 1 + X² > 1593551680 721738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74819&oldid=74818 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1593551719 803678 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-haoytypwlfenekuc JOIN :#esoteric < 1593551797 972094 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think one may ask about a functor F such that (μx. Fx)² ≅ 1 + (μx. Fx) though I’m not sure if we can take μx off and simplify this < 1593551985 993037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose now U³ ≅ 0. Then (A + U + U²)² ≅ A² + 2AU + (1 + A) U² = hmm no. Let’s try infinite series < 1593552246 138730 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, that just delegates the problem to finding the first coefficient of the series with the same property < 1593552295 245091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you care about the shape, not just the cardinality. < 1593552313 397259 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1593552409 956439 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one place there were stated such an isomorphism requires inspecting no more than a fixed amount of data constructors < 1593552419 220572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about the functor F that you're taking the fixed point of, but about the functor e.g. Tree a = Leaf | Branch (Tree a) (Tree a) < 1593552511 220436 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn’t that just a constant functor (technically, up to replacing Leaf with Leaf a, but they should be equivalent) < 1593552521 492346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I meant "Leaf a". < 1593552536 964098 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1593552561 73967 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, and I lied, of course versions with Leaf and Leaf a are different < 1593552606 853354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I'd be pretty surprised if you figured out a type that has this property. < 1593552635 965775 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be too! Now I have no hope after series failed me < 1593552663 181543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of course there's an isomorphism between 1 + Nat and Nat^2. That's why you need naturality. < 1593552802 97359 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had not much hope from the start as I haven’t got as many mathematician friend as Baez does, so if they haven’t figured it out in several weeks or years (supposing that after that they either forgot ot he wouldn’t append a note to that old post when the solution would be found), how would I in a burst of procrastinative initiative (at most a couple of hours)? < 1593552812 933011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/friend/friends < 1593552869 553464 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :here’s another question, maybe more fruitful: how would one prove that there’s no such type? < 1593552884 614367 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in a suitable type theory) < 1593552966 986835 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we could say Φ is almost surely not a regular tree type or what are they called (not a polynomial nor a recursive type involving polynomials) < 1593553034 357063 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I’m not entirely sure about recursive polynomial types. I thought any of them is isomorphic to some series, and if that’s not the case… < 1593553076 261608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe unique types couldn’t save us either < 1593553113 486353 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, “generalized unique types”, like U such that U³ ≅ 0 < 1593553120 998996 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :nilpotent types < 1593553155 733107 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on that my knowledge of various type-algebraic things ends < 1593553285 951793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, also I heard about realizing negative and quotient types—and they say that’s hard on its own and then so much as impossible if one wants to have both together < 1593553693 478807 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also of note: it seems one can’t talk about an antidiagonal X^2̲ (and a diagonal in first place) of X² if not (Eq X). For the same reason one can’t talk about an upper antidiagonal X^2̲ / 2! ≡ binom(X, 2) if not (Ord X). That shouldn’t directly relate to the previous, I’m just reading old sigfpe < 1593553743 573059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one can replace 2 with n here) < 1593553846 554100 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask rain1 BTW what did you wanted symmetric polynomials for? Just curious < 1593553846 554169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1593554101 1626 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1593554104 435902 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1593554300 88384 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593555785 96691 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593555934 562651 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593555934 884382 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1593557469 553370 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593557530 521722 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593557554 492403 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593558254 464324 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a8cd:bd53:575f:65d2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593558291 401585 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593558392 28163 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-94-32.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1593560247 513308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74820&oldid=61562 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10 > 1593560284 855906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74821&oldid=74820 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* It does the Achermann function below: */ > 1593560324 887205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74822&oldid=74821 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+79) 10/* Turing-completeness */ cats > 1593560354 914018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072D-BCT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74823&oldid=55748 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+52) 10/* Wierdness */ cats > 1593560421 77936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071st-Worst14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74824&oldid=65102 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10 < 1593560749 961060 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1593560886 616455 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593561217 59746 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593561549 105946 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric