00:03:20 -!- Antebrationist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:03:21 -!- d3pp has joined. 00:05:49 -!- t20kdc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:07:12 -!- Arcorann__ has joined. 00:09:20 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:15:34 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:16:49 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 00:31:33 -!- d3pp has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8). 01:05:05 -!- d3pp has joined. 01:10:57 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:23:37 -!- d3pp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:52:39 [[The Temporary Stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75991&oldid=75837 * Bangyen * (+1) 03:53:22 [[RAM0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75992&oldid=75843 * Bangyen * (+54) /* Implementations */ 04:04:29 [[Bitdeque]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75993&oldid=75946 * Bangyen * (-2) 04:15:00 -!- adu has joined. 04:49:02 -!- d3pp has joined. 04:49:07 -!- d3pp has left. 04:49:13 -!- d3pp has joined. 04:59:43 -!- aaaaaa has joined. 05:45:22 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:55:04 [[User:Salpynx/bf8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75994&oldid=75976 * Salpynx * (+1093) Fizz Buzz in maths 05:59:43 `" 05:59:45 1/1:1283) I have just learned about "SMASH FACE ON KEYBOARD; POST RESULTS". --- quit: hppavilion[1] (Quit: Leaving) --- join: hppavilion[1] [...] joined #esoteric ...that was the result, apparently Dammit, f4 \ 933) it's almost like Haskell is a programming language and not some kind of mathematical rhetorical arguing device 06:04:35 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:17:45 [[User:Salpynx/bf8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75995&oldid=75994 * Salpynx * (+424) Truth-machine fn 06:50:27 [[BFStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75996&oldid=75594 * Bangyen * (+54) 06:51:05 [[RAM0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75997&oldid=75992 * Bangyen * (-54) 07:27:12 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:27:47 [[User:Bangyen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75998&oldid=75971 * Bangyen * (+120) /* Implementations */ 07:55:51 -!- Cale has joined. 08:12:06 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:21:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:22:51 -!- d3pp has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8). 08:54:36 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:07:42 [[6-5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75999&oldid=75923 * The Esolanger * (-8) Made it finished 09:39:56 -!- arseniiv has joined. 09:55:59 -!- Cale has joined. 10:04:15 -!- t20kdc has joined. 10:09:47 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:11:57 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 10:19:41 -!- craigo has joined. 10:29:11 Great job, Amazon UK. There's these two hard drive models (WD40EFRX and WD40EFAX) with the same branding, but the difference that the first one uses CMR while the second one uses (DM-)SMR. Amazon was selling both, with a £15 price difference. 10:29:17 Ordered the first one, because of the well-documented issues SMR can have in some workloads. They sent me the WD40EFAX model, inside a bubble wrap that had a WD40EFRX sticker on it. 10:29:25 Returned it, complained to customer service (who assured me that they'd put a note on my account to ensure it doesn't happen again), ordered it again. 10:29:32 They sent me *another* WD40EFAX drive, again in bubble wrap with a WD40EFRX sticker on it. So returned that too, and this time complained to product support, who got it "escalated" to an "investigation". They temporarily stopped selling the WD40EFRX on amazon.co.uk. 10:29:42 Went back now to check whether their investigation has concluded. What they've done is, they've updated the model name in the WD40EFRX product to say WD40EFAX as well, as if it was the same drive, but kept the other details of the WD40EFRX drive. 10:30:01 So now they're selling "WD Red 4TB NAS 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, SMR, 256 MB Cache - WD40EFAX" at £104 (fair enough), *and* "WD Red 4TB NAS 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 64 MB Cache WD40EFAX" (which isn't even a thing that exists) at £120. 10:30:31 (This was all "Dispatched and sold by Amazon" stuff, not even third-party sellers.) 10:30:50 I think I've run out of ways to escalate that, so I guess I'll just give up. Sorry for the rant, just had to offload it somewhere. 10:38:22 (If you know any tech journalists who've been writing all those articles about the CMR-vs-SMR bait and switch, feel free to give them a tip, maybe that'd motivate someone to fix it properly.) 10:39:03 :-/ 10:42:30 SMR seems to be making a very weird tradeoff (which I have yet to fully understand) 10:43:58 As for bait&switch, I've only heard of this, fortunately. 10:50:35 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:50:57 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 11:30:39 -!- xelxebar has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 11:33:00 -!- xelxebar has joined. 11:40:55 I don't think SMR would've meant much to me in practice (it'd be just one half of a classic RAID 1 mirror that doesn't get written a lot), just thought I'd rather not, and then it became more of a matter of not getting what I ordered. 11:40:59 Also, while they did the refund for the second return immadiately, the first one is still in "refund will be started once we receive your item" state even though the parcel tracking service says it was delivered to Amazon two weeks or so ago. 11:43:49 -!- Arcorann__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:43:53 Highly annoying :-( 12:15:54 -!- aaaaaa has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:48:51 @check \a b -> (a `xor` b == 1) == (abs (a-b) == 1 && even (min a b)) 12:48:53 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 12:58:48 (I started out with the thing on the right.) 13:00:42 I've been toying around with this: https://paste.debian.net/1156599/ (that is, count the number of solutions to that "Regnarok puzzle" I brought up yesterday.) 13:10:32 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 13:11:02 `olist 1207 13:11:04 olist 1207: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 13:15:40 fare well 13:19:34 I've been toying around with this: https://paste.debian.net/1156599/ => how do you think, can it be solved neatly without enumerating a massive amount of things on a computer? purely pencil and paper style? 13:23:17 arseniiv: it's in the middle 13:23:52 A bit more tedious than I'd be comfortable with on pen&paper. 13:24:01 so, the kind of puzzle I’m not experienced with at all 13:24:13 The keyword is dynamic programming. 13:24:29 Also, it turns out this thing has an OEIS entry. 13:25:17 You can use brute force too, it will finish. 13:25:31 Also, it turns out this thing has an OEIS entry. => a sequence for various dimensions of the Jormungard (oh I think I made at least three errors in there writing by memory) 13:25:34 ? 13:25:54 varying the width 13:26:29 I’d vary the height too, I think there should be a decent generalization which leaves only two degree 3 vertices 13:27:04 Well, I'd advise against it. 13:28:48 (You can ask the question but the counting will get more difficult.) 13:31:12 "so, the kind of puzzle I’m not experienced with at all" <-- also the kind of puzzle I tend to enjoy a lot 13:31:15 ``` cat olist.new > /hackenv/bin/olist 13:31:18 No output. 13:31:38 `hbrl olist 13:31:39 hbrl? No such file or directory 13:31:45 olist will now print the URL of the strip if you give it just a number as the argument; it will keep printing the arguments verbatim otherwise 13:31:50 `hurl bin/olist 13:31:51 File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository. 13:31:56 `hurl ../bin/olist 13:31:57 https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/olist 13:32:29 feel free to test in private message 13:33:15 I just wanted to see the change. 13:33:35 it's bash black magic, I don't know how it works 13:34:01 I practicularly don't understand the xargs part that prints the tail, I just took that from the existing command 13:36:55 arseniiv: https://gist.github.com/int-e/7bb736e366337379442d5899b3899963 is what I did :) 13:37:37 (totally hardcoded to 4xn size) 13:38:53 int-e: neat 13:39:07 though I’m lazy to read it properly for now 14:25:35 " BTW I find it suspicious how it became to be that English somehow didn’t have a reaction to sneezing of its own" => I think "bless you" is the normal reply 14:25:49 "gesundheit" just took over because it sounds better 14:26:08 also, germans tend to do world domination 14:26:23 myname: speak for yourself 14:27:43 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:53:34 " They sent me *another* WD40EFAX drive, again in bubble wrap with a WD40EFRX sticker on it." => hehe, https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html 14:54:27 ... almost fell for that one. 14:55:57 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 14:55:57 -!- mniip has quit (*.net *.split). 14:55:58 -!- ocharles has quit (*.net *.split). 14:55:58 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 14:57:29 -!- ski has joined. 14:57:29 -!- mniip has joined. 14:57:29 -!- ocharles has joined. 14:57:30 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:58:08 I hope you at least got your money back 14:58:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:59:08 ah, "SMR" stands for shingled. that makes more sense 15:01:49 " Also, while they did the refund for the second return immadiately, the first one is still in "refund will be started once we receive your item" state even though the parcel tracking service says it was delivered to Amazon two weeks or so ago." ah 15:11:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:27:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:45:31 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Connection closed). 15:45:47 [[Burro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76000&oldid=75954 * Chris Pressey * (+1768) Give an idiom for extensible conditional testing in Burro. 16:02:14 -!- adu has joined. 16:07:05 -!- sftp has quit (Excess Flood). 16:08:03 -!- sftp has joined. 17:11:02 -!- d3pp has joined. 17:17:34 -!- b_jonas has joined. 17:39:30 [[Ix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76001&oldid=75980 * Orisphera * (+87) 17:52:33 -!- rain1 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:56:19 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:08:11 -!- rain1 has joined. 18:08:24 I need a new hard disk, what would you recommend ? 18:08:50 buy one 18:09:33 Yes, if you do not already have a suitable one. 18:10:08 -!- Cale has joined. 18:11:28 whch one? 18:13:34 The one I have is Western Digital 18:14:54 buy one from the other brand than your current one, then when you inevitably hear stories about why a particular brand of hard disks sucks, you at least won't think darn it, all my hard disks are of that brand 18:15:27 I have both samsung and WD in my computer for that reason 18:16:21 or, like, if all of them have a mistake or feature or backdoor that causes them to simultaneously die at a round mayan date or whatever, at least some of your hard disks have a chance to work 18:16:52 haha 18:16:56 have you tried SSD? 18:17:03 i thought it was interesting but dont have one 18:17:14 (of course, some of them might share pieces of software, in which case you're screwed anyway. it's like when I have vlc, mplayer and ffmpeg on my computer, but it turns out that the backend they use to compress h2.64 video is actually the same one library, so it's not like when there's a bug in one I can just use the other) 18:17:45 rain1: I will buy an SSD, but not as a primary hard disk, just as a cache or hot stuff mostly. I don't trust SSDs to be reliable, 18:17:59 in that they can just go completely unreadable out of the blue, more so than hard disks. 18:22:49 oh that sounsd horrible 18:23:01 Is there the program to implement that caching? How would it be working effectively? 18:28:35 zzo38: I think it's in the linux kernel, with some userspace stuff only to set it up, but I don't know the details 18:28:47 I haven't bought an SSD yet so I haven't researched it 18:29:06 I'll buy one "soon" (within ten years) 18:37:45 What I do with my SSD-and-HDD setup is, since the HDD is almost an order of magnitude larger than the HDD, I just have a thing to keep a mirror of the SSD contents on the HDD, updated once a day or so. 18:38:10 Although my personal experience with spinning disk failures has so far all been "went completely unreadable out of the blue" as well. 18:38:57 With the exception of one drive which was "was sending smartd error emails for a week before it went completely unreadable, but I wasn't reading that email address", which admittedly is more in the 'my fault' column. 18:39:16 s/than the HDD/than the SSD/ 18:40:03 Only Banarch-Tarski brand HDDs are an order of magnitude larger than themselves. 18:41:39 My only advice is, don't try to buy a WD40EFRX from Amazon, for the reasons detailed earlier today. 18:41:57 2 of my disks are dead 18:42:13 yeah that story got me thinking 18:59:47 have multiple disks, any one could break 18:59:57 no, I don't always follow my own advice about backups 19:00:05 I'm probably not the right person to ask about them 19:00:09 about backup best practices 19:03:21 b_jonas: I think "bless you" is the normal reply => oh, forgot about that one 19:04:26 when I think about backups, I realize I don’t have enough disks 19:06:26 The problem with many disks is, if you choose to make one bigger, you may need to make the others bigger as well, and then it may become expensive. 19:08:17 For example, the three disks in my backup rotation cycle (one in the machine receiving weekly incremental backups, one on the shelf here, and one in an underground vault at an undisclosed location in the Finnish bedrock) are all 3TB, while the "working drives" in this machine are 4TB, which only works because I've excluded a bunch of useless junk from being backed-up. 19:09:58 Right now the best price-per-unit-of-storage size seems to be either 6 TB or 8 TB, but if I were to switch to that, I'd need to buy approximately 5 of them. 19:19:39 ah, I have less than 3 TB of non-backup space, and more than 200 GB is used to hold a file I don’t particularly want to have but it hasn’t anywhere else to go if I don’t want to devote one of removable disks to it, as there are just two and they hold backups. Though I should better place them in different locations, not in the same drawer centimeters apart 19:22:02 BTW is there any merit to wrap a removable HDD in metal foil as a kind of Faraday cage, would it be effective against EMP from a nearby lightning and does that happen often enough to be one of the main threats? 19:31:22 I don't have any data to back this up (no terminology pun intended), but I would imagine that's not super high up the list of most common failure modes. 19:33:45 arseniiv: I don't think so. if you want to protect against lightning, pull out all cables from the hard disk and any other equipment nearby. 19:34:02 like, if it's still in a computer chasis, pull all the cables from the chasis 19:34:27 a typical computer chasis is already a Faraday cage, the lightning comes in on cables 19:34:36 not necessarily on the power cable, it can come from a network cable too 19:34:58 PurpleStar TwitchSings * 19:35:00 b_jonas: would that help from a nearby lightning which doesn’t cause a spike in the power network? 19:35:58 arseniiv: I think so, if the cables are removed from all the other equipment nearby 19:36:03 but I'm not an experts 19:36:18 I heard right near a lightning, as rare as it may be to be as near, there are quite a large field intensities. I don’t remember if I read about remagnetizing stuff, but I think I saw that somewhere 19:36:37 hard disk data isn't too vulnerable to lightning strikes anyway. the electronics may be, but if it's only the electronics that breaks, a hard disk can still be read 19:36:53 so you can recover the data. when the electronics in an SSD breaks, you're screwed, there's no way to fix it. 19:37:11 That's a pretty relaxed definition of "can" though. 19:37:20 yeah but one would need to get it to service which is not always as cheap(?..) 19:37:26 fizzie: yeah, you need a recovery service 19:38:36 still, easier to recover from than when misbehaving software or malware or misbehaving wetware corrupts/deletes all your data 19:39:23 not necessarily on the power cable, it can come from a network cable too => hm also you reminded me it even may induce currents in the cables not connected to a power source or the like, and still fry something 19:40:00 arseniiv: yes, I specifically said "pull out all cables from ... and any other equipment nearby." 19:40:13 I was promised proper storms when I moved to the UK, but there's been hardly any. 19:40:57 also, make sure your house doesn't catch fire from the lightning. house fires don't usually destroy the hard disk, but they can cause other severe damage. 19:41:48 and make sure that if a lightning strikes a tree it doesn't fall onto your car 19:41:58 also doesn't destroy hard disks but still 19:46:09 also, make sure your house doesn't catch fire from the lightning => that can be pretty assured, it’s all bricks on the outside and concrete slabs somewhere inside :D 19:47:51 arseniiv: yeah, you don't live in America, it's easier here 19:48:12 and I don’t have a car yay. It certainly might be useful but it entails so much hassle with gasoline prices, service prices, bureaucracy and at the last it would be a hard thing to get a licence and actually drive with my degree of myopia :D 19:48:20 although we still have some ugly building fires sometimes, even in concrete buildings 19:49:07 I’d like to drive in an experimental environment where I don’t need to worry about having a license, just for fun to try it out 19:49:10 but mostly plausibly deniable motivated ones, like last time it was the offices of a political party, with lots of documents stored inside, that burned down in the city 19:49:30 and an old storage building right at my previous job 19:49:55 yeah, plastics which burn readily and so on, but usually one needs to set them on fire in a solid manner 19:50:16 arseniiv: you can certainly get a driving license with myopia. I have one, and I already had bad myopia back then. 19:50:31 admittedly it did get a bit worse, mostly in that my two eyes desyced 19:50:37 but I don’t see how I would drive in the city 19:50:38 so I have much worse binocular vision now 19:50:51 oh, I don't drive either, I just have a driving license 19:51:01 the town is terrible, I'd be afraid to drive here 19:51:04 ah :D 19:51:06 I can drive when I'm away 19:51:30 I got the license around when I started university. 19:51:59 I don’t want to get a license for naught, it’s pretty much work and social interactions with dubious persons which would comment on my height or something 19:52:08 "set them on fire in a solid manner" => good thing we have ubiquitious litium batteries for that now 19:52:21 yeah 19:52:22 they're not only in electric wheelchairs, they're in every consumer electronics device 19:52:25 now 19:52:51 but even without that, there's the old-school car fuel or alcohol or other easily flammable liquids 19:52:55 that are easy to buy 19:53:44 alcohol especially these times as an antiseptic 19:54:26 yeah, all the pharma companies realized that stopping their factories and turning them to package hand sanitizers to tiny bottles earns them a lot of money, because there's a shortage of the bottles on the market, the actual alcohol and isopropil-alcohol is widely available, and 19:54:57 unlike when making drugs, they don't need to follow all the expensive strict quality control laws to just make hand sanitizer bottles 19:55:02 so now we don't have drugs 20:04:43 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:06:09 -!- adu has joined. 20:12:59 -!- imode has joined. 20:20:41 oh 20:51:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:51:53 -!- craigo has joined. 21:10:16 Could a multi resolution picture compression be done by predictive coding? Such as, to make a prediction based on the nearest smaller size, the nearest pixel to the value, perhaps. 21:15:08 zzo38: we just use progressive jpegs for it mostly 21:15:21 it's not perfect really 21:15:33 but it's better than nothing 21:17:04 Well, for one thing, I want to use lossless compression. 21:17:53 Another thing is might be wanted to decode as CMYK+spots 21:42:12 zzo38: do you intend to use that in TeXnicard for card images? Maybe it would be good to just vectorize all the images? (with a sufficiently high contour complexity so they would look pleasing) 21:42:29 arseniiv: No, I intend to use it for picture fonts. 21:43:11 zzo38: ah, though I’d suggest the same here too 21:45:06 usually the images in a picture font aren’t too complex, right? Even emojis with color shades can be more or less well represented in vector. If one is allowed to use a blur filter as in SVG, much more so, I’d think 21:47:01 OK, maybe it is; then just the pictures can be added using PostScript codes. 21:47:21 TeXnicard does have a convolution filter command, so you can use that if you need blur 21:53:01 (It is not using SVG) 22:40:26 [[User:Deppong]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76002 * Deppong * (+61) added to my own page 22:43:13 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:52:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:52:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 23:16:17 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 23:16:17 -!- mniip has quit (*.net *.split). 23:16:17 -!- ocharles has quit (*.net *.split). 23:16:17 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 23:23:00 -!- ski has joined. 23:23:00 -!- mniip has joined. 23:23:00 -!- ocharles has joined. 23:23:00 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:31:21 [[Vertical]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76003 * Deppong * (+2087) Adding the Vertical programming language to the Esolang wiki 23:31:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:32:34 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76004&oldid=75981 * Deppong * (+15) /* V */ 23:33:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:34:45 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 23:34:51 -!- d3pp has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8). 23:46:34 -!- t20kdc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).