< 1597709818 991974 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1597710070 977129 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1597713901 817398 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597717030 118409 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1597717526 473317 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1597721195 150591 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1597721206 584120 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1597721363 290924 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hpzxlpfyjrdmebes QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1597721365 663002 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-imxxwvmhptdzookn QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597721818 127042 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ieqxwcedqwdglgpt JOIN :#esoteric < 1597723827 943129 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1597723926 531939 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgyplhrkrdhrltdv JOIN :#esoteric < 1597724628 60204 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597724645 254982 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1597724708 334629 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1597726089 799154 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1597726089 958687 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597726289 813379 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1597726775 332160 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1597728236 22887 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1597730374 466305 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1597730374 720208 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597730577 356040 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1597730582 826146 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1597731030 929857 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1597731145 962000 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1597733913 227950 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1597734258 454402 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c0e8:1e43:d35:4272 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597734601 15628 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! Does anybody know a simplistic wiki which uses Markdown, allows math and may well be unversioned? (and maybe even no merge functionality, I plan to use it only myself). And just maybe it also generates/refreshes static HTMLs? That would be optimal. Wait, it could also add Disqus widgets to the bottom of selected pages. Now that’s complete < 1597734674 455407 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m well afraid I’ll need to write that myself. That would be a simple and good Python ecosystem exercise but… laaazy < 1597734972 6203 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe describe better what you are trying to make with that? < 1597734999 155760 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fossil supports Markdown, but not the other stuff you mention.) < 1597735340 140115 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I use miraheze with tags, prefer $ but i have a userscript to transform < 1597735354 438216 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1597735364 719430 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tiddlywiki can do mathjax though, which would be nice < 1597735368 204994 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specially for self hosting < 1597735381 322298 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathjax-tw5.kantorsite.net/ < 1597735685 906977 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some TeX commands I used in math formulas many other systems can't use, so it isn't very good. < 1597735842 6212 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: just a site with a couple of posts < 1597735940 529173 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Then maybe just use a static page generator that can convert Markdown to HTML (and render the math with another program too, I suppose, and then you can include the pictures, with alt text containing the original text), I think. < 1597735960 223555 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you need discussion forums, I can suggest setting up NNTP) < 1597735994 685369 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: how hard is it to host TiddlyWiki these days? (Without someone else being able to edit it) < 1597736050 235157 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could password POST and PUT requests in your server configuration, if the software supports writing but you want to restrict it. < 1597736068 636550 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is just a html file you can save on your computer < 1597736107 8471 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, I still consider that but I don’t want to sync files to the server. Hmm maybe git pull once a couple of minutes wouldn’t harm the server but I don’t know how to do that yet < 1597736147 895265 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have a repo and pandoc here and on the server. That’s cheap for a static site generator but it will do maybe. But a wiki-like thing would be even better still < 1597736208 438900 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: yeah, but uploading it to the server each time would be tedious :\ < 1597736214 659483 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what server? < 1597736224 851841 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some server to host a website < 1597736241 920023 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you want to host it online < 1597736246 746508 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are only editing it yourself and do not need history, then why do you need a "wiki-like thing"? < 1597736260 528950 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyway thanks! Right now I don’t use TW but maybe that plugin would be useful in the future for local notes) < 1597736277 681073 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i don't fully understand what you need < 1597736285 18865 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was local notes < 1597736296 504892 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it be readable by everyone but writable by you only? < 1597736302 79431 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I mean, wiki-like in that it allows you edit it in the browser < 1597736306 815170 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: exactly < 1597736359 247491 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe miraheze has a option for it < 1597736364 478476 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be writable by more than one person too, just ones I can keep track of somewhere in the config < 1597736408 354827 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:User_rights_and_groups < 1597736486 266519 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :miraheze is a good thing too, my friends and me use it for some other notes a bit in a shared wiki, but sometimes it’s slow and has small issues < 1597736559 295133 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1597736570 711441 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :github pages could be an option < 1597736584 424132 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can invite people to edit it < 1597736587 332136 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah mediawiki (and miraheze also) is a, well, thing, but it would be too big in a sense that it’s far more than needed. Thanks once more though! Maybe I really just need to install it, why not… but… < 1597736677 553178 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that thing too, yes. Though it requires a public repo. That’s not bad, I just wanted to experiment a bit in a private one, but maybe < 1597736694 148434 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think one can write small posts in github gists :D < 1597736774 727692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm for early drafts that may even be well enough < 1597736822 992870 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the math.stackexchange editor where you get feedback on the latex < 1597737037 655111 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally find it suitable and useful to just host plain text files. Better compatibility, faster, etc. < 1597737113 743228 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ASCII math is a pain sometimes though :) too much parentheses and less digestable expressions, and sometimes an ambiguous syntax < 1597737208 979105 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although for some things it works (for math, it is not as good as TeX, though, of course) < 1597737493 73142 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bookstore.ams.org/car-36/ < 1597738213 224376 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1597738305 199241 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1597738359 959998 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ieqxwcedqwdglgpt QUIT :Quit: killed < 1597738360 354129 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgyplhrkrdhrltdv QUIT :Quit: killed < 1597738378 665421 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1597738928 488725 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flhbzsewafbvwkrd JOIN :#esoteric < 1597740801 479746 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a book > 1597740848 28753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CatLooks 5* 10New user account < 1597740939 754306 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ehalaboapnkcudvc JOIN :#esoteric > 1597741300 238474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76720&oldid=76713 5* 03CatLooks 5* (+182) 10/* Introductions */ > 1597741527 324234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CatLooks14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76721 5* 03CatLooks 5* (+135) 10Created page with "Hi, I'm CatLooks. I like Python. I'll post links to esolangs, that I create. ( It's empty right now :( ) Thanks for visiting my page." > 1597741641 694131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:CatLooks14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76722 5* 03CatLooks 5* (+13) 10Created page with "Talking page." < 1597742271 340563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-104.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1597743914 958997 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 604 seconds > 1597746206 298352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:CatLooks14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76723&oldid=76722 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+124) 10 < 1597749958 691606 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1597750271 536708 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmf. I have a daemon thing written in Go, and I need a way to control it a little (ask for status, force it to perform scheduled tasks right now, that sort of thing). What's the best way to make that happen? < 1597750280 68123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vacillating between (a) a Unix domain control socket (with maybe gRPC on it, if that's kosher) and a corresponding `fooctl` command-line program to complement the `food` (no pun intended), auth handled by filesystem permissions; or (b) a HTTPS server providing a browser-based control surface, with client certificate fingerprints saved in the config file for auth. < 1597750285 368791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe there's something obviously better than either. < 1597750469 402985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I recommend not using dbus? < 1597750544 565905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I didn't even think of that. Maybe I should use D-Bus? < 1597750591 230837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbus uses approach a, for what it's worth. < 1597750629 823006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it sure isn't something I want to use. < 1597750737 333394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it haad some sort of custom authentication mechanism on top too. < 1597750768 834033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has multiple authentication methods? But when I actually run a dbus fooctl program it seems to be filesystem-based. < 1597750809 195871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, or maybe not. < 1597750861 652828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm. Well, I've also heard there's a PolicyKit. But I'm not sure I want to get involved with that. < 1597750867 620409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's something more complicated. < 1597750874 80459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1597750888 857513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know a really nice canonical sort of answer to your question. < 1597750908 376750 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597750961 223895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I should sleepulate. < 1597750967 492977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did they pick up the "PolicyKit" "ConsoleKit" etc. naming scheme from NextStep / OS X, which I think has a bunch of Kits?) < 1597751010 887801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I'll go bicyclate a little, maybe that'll tell me what to do. < 1597752458 966107 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597753718 889506 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1597753734 835215 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1597754172 489040 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597756488 25354 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597757809 972955 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi NICK :Deewiant < 1597760040 129516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1597760391 152191 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597760677 653258 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c0e8:1e43:d35:4272 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597760683 242287 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1597762170 849793 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1597762973 780898 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c8f:6b36:e2e4:5ad1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597763731 668858 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597765713 29782 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1597766300 178720 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597766924 728520 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1211 < 1597766926 826562 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1211.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1597767198 970104 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/KXuAKfDa actual config file for the game i am implementing < 1597767606 460692 :Melvar!~melvar@dslc-082-082-054-030.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1597767989 126691 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1597768057 24739 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1597768807 324700 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1597769248 258375 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597769306 933215 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1597771121 163668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Faces14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76724&oldid=76719 5* 03Asra 5* (+378) 10 < 1597772784 770450 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1597772883 868483 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1597774332 674871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1597774755 111086 :Melvar!~melvar@dslc-082-082-054-030.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597775089 85475 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit > 1597776317 576239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76725&oldid=49827 5* 03Nqpz 5* (-14) 10Update external source code URLs < 1597776759 304594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, seriously? Epic is trying to frame their addition of a new payment option as a "hotfix"? > 1597776805 785230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76726&oldid=76725 5* 03Nqpz 5* (+174) 10Add link to BF-to-HBCHT transpiler < 1597776828 45958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/epic-v-apple-8-17-20-768927327.pdf starting on page 8, line 23. > 1597776907 680050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76727&oldid=76726 5* 03Nqpz 5* (+29) 10Argue for Turing completeness based on the new BF-to-HBCHT transpiler < 1597777017 186640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: spooky > 1597777026 882962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76728&oldid=76727 5* 03Nqpz 5* (+37) 10Clarify ambigious word use < 1597777029 713517 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: how so? < 1597777062 421209 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got bored of rewriting rendering stuff after getting ideas for rearrangements < 1597777073 86087 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i basically just parse those directly < 1597777103 249357 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I just didn’t know what word to say :D definitely a good idea < 1597777277 476170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: If they call adding a new character to a game a "hotfix", it seems like a similar degree of change? < 1597777293 693027 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vpmichetvehbbpfq QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1597777296 613821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sure, that is the argument they're trying to make. < 1597777313 874345 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it important if something is a hotfix or not? < 1597777325 170194 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is... they anticipated the need for an alternative payment processor in a market that they *know* has only one payment processor. < 1597777336 801415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: because hotfixes are an accepted industry practice. < 1597777358 889328 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so? what difference would a normal feature addition make? < 1597777368 793910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they have by no means circumvented Apple's review process, they're totally innocent and acting in good faith. < 1597777377 506213 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1597777386 663557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're arguing that Apple's behavior is illegal, right? < 1597777396 987497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that it's a little silly to add support for payment methods that way. < 1597777422 581671 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in that case, i would have tried sueing them _first_ and not after i explicitly work against their policies < 1597777436 250621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, they could make their antitrust case while distributing a perfectly ToS-abiding version of Fortnite... as they've done for year. < 1597777439 258411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1597777443 759542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the strategy is. < 1597777450 500891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it works out for them. < 1597777457 435022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it wouldn't attract nearly as much attention. < 1597777467 539797 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure on which side i am < 1597777478 261069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is bullies fighting. < 1597777498 715358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything Epic has done with regard to these online stores has seemed positive to me. < 1597777503 686747 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic in itself is a bit weird < 1597777504 11328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some luck, ordinary developers will get some of the crumbs (better terms for entry into Apple's iOS market.) < 1597777528 541734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epic is a bloodsucking vampire. < 1597777548 698081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you figure? < 1597777575 652529 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember hearing them putting money in forests and stuff, that's neat, but i hate how aggressive they are with their store < 1597777576 411322 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a big corporation making loads of money, that's basically all the evidence I need :P < 1597777601 405215 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think loot boxes, pay to win and all that are great innovations. < 1597777613 236560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure. < 1597777621 614872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have pay to win? < 1597777625 679926 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you have sources for that? < 1597777627 148775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure if I search for 5 minutes I'll find half a dozen stories of developers being treated badly. < 1597777640 223114 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's not bathesda or ea we are talking about < 1597777644 728875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was all skinning. < 1597777653 727046 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortnite is all skinning, yeah < 1597777655 252729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which developers? Selling things on Epic Game Store? < 1597777669 223811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: The Google brief actually has an example for innovation that is a video game where you pay for extra lives seamlessly during gameplay. < 1597777678 260893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: pay to win in its purest form. < 1597777690 409260 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gohxyujbnzttexch JOIN :#esoteric < 1597777697 173215 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortnite is an interesting phenomenon. it's f2p, you cannot pay for gaming advantages, yet they make plenty of money < 1597777717 882356 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how so? < 1597777749 638016 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[citation needed] < 1597777769 108927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Epic has been doing seems pretty pro-developer to me. < 1597777786 112603 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least above industry average < 1597777796 303578 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is pretty low) < 1597777802 28494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It is pay to win, it's just that the game isn't obvious. It's about coolness. < 1597777832 180639 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what gaming advantage can you get with money in an epic game? < 1597777833 154022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm an original gamer, I have all the Season 1 goodies" < 1597777843 10134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are clothing stores also pay to win? < 1597777847 554752 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not pay to win < 1597777855 995956 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: As I said, it's not the obvious game. < 1597777868 948611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems hard to get that worked up about people playing a game and paying to change their character's appearance. < 1597777891 139054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's about looks, like not sailing in on an umbrella like Mary Poppins. < 1597777950 398755 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i strongly disagree about that being p2w. you may have some sort of community circlejerking, but i can choose whether or not i participate there and i will have no disadvantage in the main game if i choose not to < 1597777986 685655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: thank god for not being a teenager < 1597778002 660245 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:43 Are clothing stores also pay to win? < 1597778004 649106 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1597778058 354956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an example for innovation that is a video game where you pay for extra lives seamlessly during gameplay" => how is that innovation? didn't many of the earliest arcade and pinball games do that? < 1597778079 664622 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you have to ask Epic and their lawyers < 1597778247 620977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I want Epic to prevail on their antitrust claims. I don't care about the Fortnite sideshow. I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to force Epic to adhere to Apple's ToS for the time being (meaning adhering to the requirement of using Apple's payment processor) and then wait for the antitrust case to settle. < 1597778274 607228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine if they actually succeed at their stated goal of reducing game store fees from 30% to 12%. < 1597778296 718565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also at breaking Steam's monopoly. < 1597778303 168321 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if google has it easier as you can pretty easily install third party apps on android < 1597778345 16698 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like them to break steam's monopoly without actually breaking steam, pretty please < 1597778367 734532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: is it easier to install third party apps on android than to install third party apps on apple? < 1597778394 201641 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can toggle a setting in android and can install downloaded apks < 1597778400 758985 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Maybe. Their main complaint against Google is actually that they enter agreements with OEMs that mandate having Google Play displayed prominently and prevents OEMs from having alternative stores preinstalled (with the exception of Samsung's Galaxy, which is a case where the OEM has their own store)> < 1597778403 54975 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ios, you need to jailbreak < 1597778438 862434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: And sideloading is just to scary for most users, says Epic. < 1597778473 979346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they cite the European Commission who found that Google Play has a 90% market share worldwide in the Android app market. < 1597778496 960327 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what is their idea on how the play store gets financed? < 1597778540 703214 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epic, for the time being, thinks a 12% share is enough to finance a store. < 1597778562 475668 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they would remove their own payment option then? < 1597778565 200119 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems fair < 1597778565 495434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they do mention that they would establish their own Android and iOS stores, given the chance. < 1597778573 80049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: No they wouldn't. < 1597778586 824227 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortnite *is* a sideshow here. < 1597778587 475775 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already do have their own stores < 1597778612 203205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading between the lines they really want their own store, on all platforms. < 1597778612 420063 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to play an epic game for android and needed to install their store < 1597778619 643667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: hmm, but isn't apple trying to jail software to hardware in the other direction instead, as in, ensuring that their OS and programs can only be ran on hardware that they sell, as opposed to android and windows, for which third party companies are allowed to make and sell hardware < 1597778661 933811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: And btw, if Apple has problems with making profit from free to play games... I'm sure they can come up with a payment model for those that works independently of in game payments. < 1597778665 709232 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: both < 1597778693 108362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's *easy* to make hardware for android in practice, mind you < 1597778693 880425 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: like the game pass? < 1597778719 622500 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Like charging the developer for every sold copy and every shipped update. < 1597778725 878312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sold" < 1597778736 100744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "every download" sums it up better. < 1597778750 920989 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting to watch how apple and google basically try to make the same thing with their passes yet they have significant differences < 1597778786 908281 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: charging for every download if you have no other choice will lead to another lawsuit, i guess < 1597778813 189532 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Not really, not if the fees are "reasonable" by a pretty broad standard. < 1597778836 895987 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would feel pretty blocked out if i am not allowed to offer a game that makes me no money without having to pay regularly < 1597778850 194744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be the same lawsuit, which, again, is about opening up the market to alternative stores, not really about Fortnite. < 1597778854 401701 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have ads in the game, sure, apple can get their share < 1597778910 515667 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I'm sure stores can distinguish between commercial games (with in game revenue stream) and non-commercial ones if they like. < 1597778928 3785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. < 1597778935 294283 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if they adhere to the tos, yeah < 1597778947 188641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually we have too many things going on in this discussion, it's getting confusing. < 1597778950 824290 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the play store lists if an app contains IAP or ads < 1597782226 732934 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like The Corrs’ “Runaway” composition-wise/sound-wise? < 1597784399 961868 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1597785187 974202 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.147.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1597786520 565934 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c8f:6b36:e2e4:5ad1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597786997 462147 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c8f:6b36:e2e4:5ad1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1597787152 916568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:CatLooks14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76729&oldid=76723 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+90) 10 > 1597787299 937422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:CatLooks14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76730&oldid=76729 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+36) 10 > 1597787323 761226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76731&oldid=71315 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+0) 10 > 1597787482 992369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A/ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76732 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+95) 10Created page with "you found it the r < 1597788430 286254 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c8f:6b36:e2e4:5ad1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597791346 247368 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1597791713 886623 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597791746 686554 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1597791768 954874 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1597791779 754878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposing I want to display three values whose meaning is mostly self-explanatory, but then also want to display the three keys for them (as in what they are values for), and I want to put the values first and in a particular order to make this more informative in case the display is truncated (and possibly scrollable), what punctuation would I put around and between the keys for that? would it be like < 1597791786 215489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"valueA, valueB, valueC (keyA, keyB, keyC)"? < 1597791836 836470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-6.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by mostly self-explanatory I mean eg. valueA is a timestamp, and you can guess that it's a timestamp because it's formatted like a timestamp, and you can guess what it is timestamp for because that's what makes sense in context. < 1597793423 681766 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends on the program and other stuff