< 1600301925 742651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walked past a Apple hardware second-hand/repair shop the other day, it was called "Secondbyte" and their logo (the letter 'o') was an apple with two bites taken out of it (one on each side). < 1600305605 252941 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a bit in 19edo in 13edt, yay < 1600305619 704313 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and in < 1600305656 470189 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : and their logo (the letter 'o') was an apple with two bites taken out of it (one on each side). => lol :D < 1600305803 599697 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑↑ and both on a conventional 12edo keyboard. That’s pretty weird on the senses but I guess majority of xenmusicians uses those fairly often, as non-12edo-keyboards aren’t still that ubiquitous × cheap < 1600305822 83782 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still nice < 1600306091 38949 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1600306872 221820 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A digital piano I have allows adjusting the temperament, although always with twelve notes in one octave. < 1600308934 720341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sorts of adjustments does it allow? < 1600309343 936829 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can adjust tuning up and down, and you can select from a set of different temperaments, including equal temperament without a tuning curve (which I think makes it sound better when you are selecting a sound other than the piano sound; the piano sound is better with the tuning curve), Pythagorean, and a few others. For the non-equal kinds you can also select which note is the base note. > 1600310425 628356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Acrostic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77546&oldid=71932 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (+370) 10Added Python implementation & truth machine example < 1600311947 612831 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-010.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1600312010 646939 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-010.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1600313270 267704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Tetrapyronia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77547&oldid=77514 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (+983) 10 < 1600314962 918658 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1600315647 998874 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1600319470 945400 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1600319497 964193 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1600319552 913760 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1600324046 3381 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1600324742 473100 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1600326572 194756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KSEA < 1600326572 681008 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSEA 170653Z 15005KT 6SM HZ FU OVC050 18/16 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP178 T01830156 < 1600326867 109569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar kpae < 1600326868 688144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KPAE 170653Z AUTO 15008KT 3SM HZ FU CLR 18/16 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP177 T01830156 < 1600329256 561706 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1600329668 278514 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1600330141 531040 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1600330283 888483 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1600335321 420260 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-114.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1600337485 169430 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1600342509 35991 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-114.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: kwit < 1600343136 990180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1600343531 201859 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nice. I’ve even forgotten that classical pianos are tuned slightly off 12edo to sound nicer because their strings are a bit inharmonic, so makes perfect sense to make that a default for an electric classical piano. Now I wonder if my hardware synthesizer does something like that for its piano presets (they all are presumably sampled, not synthesized in a more traditional way like FM) < 1600343611 281712 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately all my tuning-able VSTs are not pianos. I need to revisit xenwiki to make sure I ain’t missing anything < 1600344613 459210 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1600346523 818179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77548&oldid=65665 5* 03DGCK81LNN 5* (+32) 10/* Instructions */ & and ~ reflect on EOF > 1600346574 780264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77549&oldid=77548 5* 03DGCK81LNN 5* (-2) 10/* Instructions */ < 1600347816 532766 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1600347831 841917 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1600348509 86547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1600350083 70206 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1600352292 404609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chef14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77550&oldid=68303 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+128) 10Added a link. > 1600352365 755221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Acrostic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77551&oldid=77546 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+2) 10Linked truth-machine. < 1600352823 472925 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600355315 703905 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1600357201 797268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-190.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1600357368 399643 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1600357475 272616 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1600357656 154831 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?metar CYVR < 1600357656 885358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYVR 171500Z 19003KT 2 1/2SM FU BKN025 OVC041 16/16 A3004 RMK SC5SC3 SLP174 DENSITY ALT 100FT < 1600357892 903953 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: You could try other programs, such as Csound < 1600358262 856477 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1600358656 995508 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1600359163 506527 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1600359560 445678 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1600360697 76237 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1600360932 2233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77552&oldid=77467 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-2) 101L_a < 1600360994 334881 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1600362567 462755 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1600362740 230342 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1600362748 583278 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1600368097 508279 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1600368135 560698 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1600368146 9233 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1600368953 489417 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-ihjmyjyykiaqkmcl JOIN :#esoteric < 1600368971 495797 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1600368990 330812 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1600371622 430546 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:24f8:257:f104:7be7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1600371684 894020 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1600372547 67940 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1600376089 269374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Filth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77553&oldid=77518 5* 03Bananaapple 5* (+1873) 10Added programming in Filth section > 1600376110 259036 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Filth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77554&oldid=77553 5* 03Bananaapple 5* (+0) 10 < 1600378955 487719 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600379471 68361 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600379640 171187 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1600379694 508610 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1600379800 326954 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600379823 452426 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1600379859 597631 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1600380009 40603 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1600380047 801421 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:24f8:257:f104:7be7 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1600380119 482457 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1600380264 645036 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1600380366 495818 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600380390 630245 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1600380418 454493 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1600380426 715860 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600380450 662308 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( at Internet connection < 1600380682 301846 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1600380761 763866 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1600382151 207311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My internet connection has been having a weird issue for the last month or three. < 1600382159 157470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, the write direction of long-running TCP connections seems to mysteriously stall for 5-10 seconds or so, every now and then; usually I notice it when typing in a SSH connection, maybe once or twice an hour. My wife's Skype calls seem to also do the same (others can't hear her), with about the same frequency and duration. < 1600382190 249648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I've tried to do ICMP pings to monitor, there hasn't been really any packet loss or extra delay. And I've not noticed any problems at all with Google Meet video calls, which are presumably going over UDP (since all HTTPS to Google servers from Chrome tends to use QUIC). It seems to be just TCP, and just egress. < 1600382201 980248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should talk to my ISP, but even though their support is above-average, I'm a little worried that's still too vague for a report. I've been writing up a networking monitoring program that would do regular pings (to two Internet endpoints and one local) x (over IPv4 and IPv4) x (with TCP and UDP), in the hopes of getting some hard data. I'm expecting to see problems with the two Internet endpoints but < 1600382207 994269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the local one, and only for the pings over a TCP connection. With no particular expectations for the v4/v6 distinction, but might as well be thorough. < 1600382213 269176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, weird. < 1600382242 979431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, s/and IPv4/and IPv6/, otherwise that sentence no sense makes. < 1600382961 429849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of TCP, I was wondering the other day whether there's any reason programs couldn't get/send TCP datagrams directly from/to the OS instead of relying on its implementation of TCP. < 1600382993 419481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a security reason or anything. You can do raw IP but that requires taking over an interface and being root and so on. < 1600383787 395084 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the operating system's TCP is helpful so that netstat can work, and for some other purposes too < 1600384070 112633 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600384176 924049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there might be reasons to avoid it. < 1600384194 164171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are things like epoll pretty much only necessary because of TCP? < 1600385140 291833 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1600385165 43789 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600385408 38017 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1600385822 670089 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1600385944 885817 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The reason that programs can't send TCP datagrams directly from/to the OS is probably because there's usually no reason to. (It'd have to be checked to ensure the port/etc. match up with what's supposed to be used.) As for epoll, it's for handling large numbers of FDs. Not necessarily sockets. < 1600385975 944336 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1600386008 494331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but in what other situation do you need to monitor a large number of file descriptors? < 1600386011 507963 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But even if it is sockets, a hundred UDP sockets still need to be checked for incoming datagrams. < 1600386042 810289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you have a hundred UDP sockets, though? < 1600386092 445324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a server listening on a hundred ports? < 1600386168 296309 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600386294 521526 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1600386347 660408 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1600386365 40460 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Something to note is that epoll allows supplying a small amount of user data with each file descriptor. Enough to store a pointer to whatever "object" structure represents, say, a specific session, so the user application doesn't have to perform the lookup. < 1600386414 762849 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So combine that with any theoretical gains from not using sendto/recvfrom and it may be beneficial to use a more TCP-like model with UDP sockets. < 1600386445 942772 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. one 'server' UDP socket and several 'connection' UDP sockets) < 1600386458 283029 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1600386468 684274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work? Listening on different ports? < 1600386496 825927 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connect syscall is usable on UDP sockets. It just limits what they receive to packets from a specific target arriving at a specific local port. < 1600386509 123114 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a specific remote port. < 1600386533 740261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the benefit of moving that all into the kernel is. < 1600386693 390916 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not sure. That said the kernel is doing filtering anyway because of the bound port. < 1600386778 10332 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess the answer is to benchmark it and see what happens?