00:03:54 * pikhq contemplates doing things that are esoteric-related again 00:16:01 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:32:18 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Scratcher * New user account 02:40:52 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:45:23 -!- fungot has joined. 04:02:26 -!- xelxebar has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:55 -!- xelxebar has joined. 04:12:19 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:35:55 been so long though. what even to do... 04:37:19 join me in shaving the steps off of this RAM ruleset. 05:42:17 Are there standard TeX fonts for unslanted lowercase Greek alphabets? 05:42:45 (It would probably be easy enough to make such fonts, but I want to know if there are standard ones.) 05:55:16 There should be as part of whatever packages people use to type Greek 05:59:09 Maybe, but I meant for mathematical typesetting, not for writing Greek words. 07:14:10 -!- sprocklem has quit (Quit: ...). 07:30:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:08:39 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:11:03 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:22:14 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:27:43 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:29:52 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 09:17:09 [[User:SunnyMoon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77826&oldid=77591 * SunnyMoon * (+41) 33! 09:25:17 [[User:SunnyMoon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77827&oldid=77826 * SunnyMoon * (+63) I am also playing around with TPT! 09:49:08 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 09:51:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:51:27 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 11:28:06 [[Babel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77828 * Sinthorion * (+2598) Created page with "'''Babel''' is an esolang currently developed by [[User:Sinthorion|Sinthorion]], in which the source code may only contain the lowercase letters, whitespace, commas and period..." 12:14:59 -!- arseniiv has joined. 12:25:49 [[User:SoicBR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77829 * SoicBR * (+109) Created page with "User:SoicBR is a hobbyst programmer and game developer. He created the A.R.T.I.C.L.E. programming language." 12:36:59 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 12:37:16 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:20:02 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77830&oldid=77823 * OsmineYT * (+168) 13:34:37 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77831 * SoicBR * (+9191) Created page with "A.R.T.I.C.L.E. is an esoteric programming language created in 5/10/2020 by [[User:SoicBR]] A.R.T.I.C.L.E. stands for: Apple Random Tower Island Cat Lol Elephant In A.R.T..." 13:44:45 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77832&oldid=77831 * SoicBR * (-68) /* Phrases */ 13:45:00 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77833&oldid=77832 * SoicBR * (-46) /* Phrases */ 13:50:05 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77834&oldid=77833 * SoicBR * (+91) /* Phrases */ 13:51:18 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77835&oldid=77834 * SoicBR * (+0) 13:59:25 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77836&oldid=77835 * SoicBR * (+91) 14:02:06 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77837&oldid=77637 * SoicBR * (+1496) /* Implementations */ 14:05:25 [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77838&oldid=77837 * SoicBR * (+0) /* Implementations */ 14:09:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:10:03 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77839&oldid=77789 * SoicBR * (+1824) 14:29:59 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:31:14 [[User:SoicBR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77840&oldid=77829 * SoicBR * (+28) 15:03:52 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77841&oldid=77836 * SoicBR * (-4) /* The accumulator(A) */ 15:03:53 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:22:06 -!- uplime has changed nick to Frankenstein. 16:11:34 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:00:13 -!- MDude has joined. 17:21:40 `olist 1216 17:21:42 olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 17:32:04 `thanks HackEso 17:32:06 Thanks, HackEso. ThackEso. 17:39:10 Thacky. 17:56:07 -!- unrooted has joined. 18:14:48 [[2DFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77842&oldid=77757 * SunnyMoon * (+4) linkify 18:15:45 [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77843&oldid=77767 * SunnyMoon * (+2) linkify 18:18:33 . o O ( hmm, bash problem: Wait for a child process that the shell didn't spawn itself. Currently that's the last thing I want to do so I can do exec perl -e "waitpid($PID,0)"... ) 18:29:20 -!- imode has joined. 18:54:27 If the shell didn't spawn it, how is it a child of the shell? 18:57:44 Hmm, guess it could have been spawned by the process that exec'd the shell. 18:59:36 Perhaps the shell ptraced it. 19:00:40 Man, ptrace has a bug where it makes epoll_wait (but not poll etc.) fail with EINTR. 19:01:05 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:01:57 The other day I ran into a program where that was actually a problem (it wasn't restarting on EINTR). 19:02:08 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:03:06 -!- hendursaga has joined. 19:23:47 fizzie: It's spawned by the process that execs the shell. 19:24:51 Using clone() with too many flags, so doing *that* in the shell is hardly an option. 19:30:22 Why does the thing exec a shell? 19:30:30 because I'm lazy 19:31:25 It's more convenient to write a dozen of shell commands than to figure out their C equivalent. 19:32:06 * int-e is playing with namespaces 19:34:52 Anyway, I why do I have to explain why on #esoteric :P 19:35:33 Why do I have to explain why you have to explain why on #esoteric? 19:35:41 (I know I'm guilty of asking why too.) 19:37:40 One thing about ptrace is, as far as I can tell, you have to be willing to get unknown pids from wait() 19:38:01 Since a process might fork and then you might get an event from the child before you get a fork event from the parent. 19:38:27 Man, fork, what an esoteric bit of nonsense that's in every Unix system. 19:39:38 isn't it a really clever hack though 19:42:13 shachaf: no, not really. firstly, you only start to automatically ptrace child processes if you set the PTRACE_O_TRACEFORK option, which I think isn't default; second you can listen to PTRACE_EVENT_FORK, PTRACE_EVENT_VFORK, PTRACE_EVENT_CLONE messages to find out about those children, without having to decode every system call 19:42:46 b_jonas: Yes, it's true, I meant only if you set TRACE{FORK,CLONE,VFORK} 19:43:11 But you might get the wait results before the PTRACE_EVENT telling you about the new pid. 19:43:59 I suppose you could avoid waitpid(-1) and only give it specific pids that you know about, but that doesn't seem great. 19:44:09 but waiting for arbitrary pids with waitpid or wait4 is usually the default anyway, unless perhaps you use some "fun" combination of threading and signals to find out about the pids. 19:44:45 like, if you have just one thread, you might as well call waitpid or wait4 with pid=-1, since you have to handle every wait notification sooner or later anyway 19:44:53 at worst you store the data for later 19:46:14 waiting for a specific pid is a shortcut only for very simple programs, and doing a ptrace more or less excludes that 19:46:21 I agree. 19:46:39 But it means you have to handle unknown pids, as far as I can tell. 19:47:14 These are my notes about using ptrace: https://shachaf.net/tmp/ptrace-notes.txt 19:47:39 ok 19:48:15 I don't expect to use ptrace directly, it's usually best to leave that to debuggers or strace 19:48:36 I wrote a program which is like a mini-strace. 19:49:02 ok 20:07:44 I wonder if i should switch to qwerty 20:09:25 from what 20:10:33 dvorak 20:10:41 rain1: depends on what kind of text you usually type 20:10:58 the problem is the key caps are different from what they do 20:11:08 and programs on my computre are sometimes not acting right because of it 20:11:26 you could even switch between them for those programs 20:12:33 I tried dvorak for a few weeks, but decided I don't want it 20:12:43 might still experiment with some nonstandard layouts some time in the future 20:13:00 i do have caps lock for switching 20:14:16 the keycaps shouldn't matter. just don't look at the keycaps, and perhaps put a layout poster on the wall for a few weeks while you get used to it so you can reference it quickly 20:14:28 I used a dead-tree poster to learn dvorak 20:16:08 ive been using dvorak for many years but i think the keycaps do matter 20:18:14 -!- trn has joined. 20:19:25 Can you use system call emulation to avoid the bug with epoll_wait? (Better would be to fix the bug in the kernel, if it can, though, I suppose) 20:20:23 -!- mich181189_ has joined. 20:21:36 keycaps don't really matter 20:21:48 I think many programs are designed to be used with qwerty, although in many cases you can customize the key bindings anyways 20:24:18 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:25:52 -!- mich181189 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:25:55 -!- mich181189_ has changed nick to mich181189. 20:33:54 rain1: keycaps matter for the rare keys, like printscreen, I always get confused where that one is; and for learning 20:34:13 keycaps also matter if you have one of these stupid keyboards that just rearranges the normal layout for no reason 20:34:20 but I just don't want to buy those 20:34:57 zzo38: yes, the classic example for that is wordstar, it's definitely designed for qwerty 20:42:22 Yes, and some other DOS programs are designed to use keys similar to Wordstar too 21:02:14 -!- unrooted has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:41:21 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 21:41:55 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:21 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 21:51:51 . o O ( Turbo Pascal IDE ) 22:19:55 -!- ^[_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:21:55 -!- ^[_ has joined. 22:24:20 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:27:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:34:12 I apt installed Free Pascal the other day. 22:34:27 It has the classic Turbo Pascal look. It's great. 22:34:32 Maybe Pascal is just a good language? 22:45:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:55:51 shachaf: does it try to have features like in Scala, C# etc.? I tend to associate Pascal and Delphi with something which is not comfortable to code in because of a squareish type system, lack of closures etc.. I heard Delphi has risen from the earth but I hope Free Pascal would be even better. If it has cool fuctional features surely I’m going to read about it more in the future! 22:56:12 I don't know. 22:56:18 I don't want most of the features in Scala. 22:57:50 I used a dead-tree poster to learn dvorak => have you felt it a useful system? 22:58:30 I type with two index fingers and even can do so blind when the keyboard don’t changes its location too much 22:59:05 I tried dvorak for a few weeks, but decided I don't want it => ah, sorry, didn’t read that in time 23:00:28 shachaf: I don’t know Scala’s features to the full extent so maybe it was a bad example language, yep 23:00:44 Should I use it instead of C, for example? 23:01:10 don’t changes => oof grammar why don’t you love me 23:01:37 shachaf: Scala definitely no, or are you about Free pascal? 23:01:48 Free Pascal. 23:02:58 then I’ll second you on that. If it allows that I would have a big benefit from learning it, to write small self-contained cross-platform utility programs at least 23:03:57 as I don’t want to touch C even when it’s definitely simpler than C++ and maybe even has less strange quirks 23:04:37 [[A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77844&oldid=77841 * SoicBR * (-2) /* The Stack */ 23:04:44 but if today’s Pascal not strong enough then I’ll try to live without both 23:07:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Night). 23:09:23 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:24:26 arseniiv: I found that it might be useful for English, but I had to type text in Hungarian too, and it doesn't work well for that. the design of dvorak is based on two things: common letters on easy to reach positions, and vowels on one hand while common consonants on the other so you alternate your hands most of the time. you could designe something based on that for Hungarian, but it would have to 23:24:32 look different from dvorak. 23:24:49 I do know at least one person who uses a close variant of dvorak for Hungarian too though. 23:25:42 I type with nine or ten fingers, except if I need to type when I'm eating with my left hand, in which case I type with all five fingers of my right hand. 23:26:01 or, rarely, all five fingers of my right hand plus my left pinky 23:30:49 M:tG stuff: so apparently there are three 3/2 creatures for 1G without drawbacks. The first one was Terrain Elemental from Kaladesh, a vanilla; then Kraul Harpooner from Guilds of Ravnica; and now Tajuru Paragon from Zendikar Rising, which is an Elf Warrior. This is the last nail on Elvish Warrior's coffin.