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02:11:50 <esowiki> [[Footsteps]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79573&oldid=79569 * Quintopia * (+5) only import re if calling directly
02:12:23 <esowiki> [[Footsteps]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79574&oldid=79573 * Quintopia * (-1) excess whitespace
02:13:16 <esowiki> [[Footsteps]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79575&oldid=79574 * Quintopia * (+12) fix code formatting
02:27:55 <nakilon> fizzie these are cool
02:28:49 <nakilon> and pretty much unexpected to see peaks around just 3 minutes
02:29:15 <nakilon> now I guess the website is brigaded by ACM/topcoder guys and I really had no chance ..D
02:29:22 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79576&oldid=79546 * Quintopia * (+101) silberjoder
02:30:14 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79577&oldid=79576 * Quintopia * (+20) whoops
02:30:30 <nakilon> wtf is that peak in bottom two plots?
02:33:03 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/h3TuUBu.png
02:34:49 <nakilon> I'm back to my coding OS
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03:30:59 <esowiki> [[RASEL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79578&oldid=79488 * Nakilon * (+50) added Factorial example
03:36:00 <Arcorann_> nakilon: The server died at the start of day 1
03:37:25 <nakilon> oh ..D
03:39:57 <nakilon> befunge's factorial example foes not utilize the 'g' instruction
03:40:03 <nakilon> so my example is different
03:41:45 <nakilon> they unfold the input down to 1 and then fold it; my stack size is used in the same amount but not for the same reason
03:42:07 <nakilon> *is using the same
03:43:06 <nakilon> just because 'a' is duplicating, not swapping
03:44:17 <nakilon> I thought about random access swap instead of random access dup previously but I'm not sure it would be always practical
03:44:39 <nakilon> could make a neat quicksort implementation though
03:45:04 <nakilon> I mean any in-place sort
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05:00:58 <esowiki> [[RASEL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79579&oldid=79578 * Nakilon * (+81) Fibonacci example added
05:05:38 <nakilon> damn, I thought Fibonacci starts with 1 1
05:10:20 <esowiki> [[RASEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79580&oldid=79579 * Nakilon * (+0) /* Nth Fibonacci number */ the sequence starts with 0, not 1
05:10:56 <nakilon> this bot is lightning fast
05:56:14 <int-e> nakilon: Well the usual definition uses F_0 = 0, F_1 = F_2 = 1
05:56:38 <int-e> so the question is which of those is the start of the sequence
05:57:11 <int-e> (picking F_0 = 0 induces nice properties like that n | m (n divides m) implies F_n | F_m)
06:00:26 <nakilon> woah
06:03:55 <int-e> This is relatively easy to see if you know a bit of modular arithmetic.
06:04:30 <shachaf> int-e: Oh man, that's great.
06:04:45 <shachaf> I always said the sequence starts with 1,1
06:04:55 <shachaf> But this is a good way to settle that argument.
06:04:57 <int-e> Namely, modulo F_n, the sequence starts with 0,1; now look around F_n: F_n = 0 (mod F_n), F_m = a (mod F_n) for some a. So at this point you repeat the Fibonacci sequence, but multiplied by a.
06:05:16 <int-e> F_(2n) = a*0 = 0 (mod F_n)
06:05:31 <int-e> F_(3n) = a^2*0 = 0 (mod F_n), and so on.
06:06:19 <int-e> You can use the same argument backwards (F_(n-2) = -F_(n-1) + F_n) to get it for negative numbers as well.
06:07:54 <nakilon> I want a diagram of which languages are used to make reference implementations of the eso langs
06:08:40 <int-e> Python, C/C++, Haskell? Also, whichever language the implementor currently wants to learn.
06:08:43 <nakilon> because I've noticed this one is made in Ruby too https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hexagony
06:09:16 <int-e> Oh yes, I did forget Perl (and thus Ruby which is different but in the same "total mess" category to my mind)
06:09:16 <nakilon> people don't decide what to learn randomly
06:09:19 <shachaf> I guess C/C++ is some sort of quotient language.
06:09:32 <nakilon> they chose from what is available and availabilities are expanding
06:09:39 <nakilon> and languages are improving
06:10:08 <nakilon> int-e lol your imagination of Ruby is opposite from the truth
06:10:18 <nakilon> it's the most comprehensive language
06:10:35 <int-e> but comprehensive != comprehensible
06:10:45 <nakilon> that's why things are usually made first in ruby and then pythonazis port them to their language
06:10:59 <nakilon> int-e I'm not native English speaker
06:11:01 <imode> we doin' language wars again?
06:11:39 <nakilon> ask pythonazis
06:11:47 <int-e> To clarify, I have never used Ruby, so I obviously I can't be objective about it.
06:11:57 <nakilon> I'm just saying I I would like to see a diagram
06:12:08 <imode> what defines a "pythonazi".
06:12:16 <nakilon> haters
06:12:18 <imode> I use Python, am I a Pythonazi.
06:12:33 <nakilon> "the only language I know is da best" guys
06:12:39 <int-e> nakilon: "comprehensive" means all-encompassing, embedding features from all around. "comprehensible" means easy to understand.
06:12:41 <imode> seems like you're one of those.
06:12:54 <nakilon> lol
06:13:10 <nakilon> you are not even hiding that you tell lie about me
06:13:13 <nakilon> that's the sign 
06:13:50 <imode> you took a stance on ruby and called out python. what else do you want me to conclude.
06:13:50 <nakilon> lies is the main weapon of haters
06:14:03 <imode> ruby good python bad
06:14:11 <imode> X good Y bad
06:14:14 <int-e> I thought we were having a discussion, apparently not.
06:14:15 <nakilon> I provided an argument
06:14:20 <nakilon> while you just lied
06:14:31 <nakilon> you was just triggered
06:14:49 <nakilon> because someone started the topic of language design
06:14:53 <nakilon> and choice
06:15:12 <int-e> ?!
06:15:12 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? .
06:15:38 <nakilon> ?v
06:15:38 <lambdabot> Just 'J'
06:15:59 <imode> watching you explode is fun. you certainly aren't a regular.
06:16:36 <int-e> I'm unsure what happened here.
06:16:37 <nakilon> wat?
06:17:33 <nakilon> dude started doing false accusations on me
06:17:37 <nakilon> that's what happened, lol
06:17:38 <shachaf> I refuse to use Ruby because it converts all my screenshots to JPEG.
06:17:40 <imode> int-e: someone with a lack of a grasp on the english language took issue with what you said about ruby, called some people pythonazis, I asked what that meant, his head exploded.
06:17:51 <shachaf> I prefer languages like Visual Basic that stick with BMP format.
06:17:58 <imode> and now thinks imaginary people are telling lies about 'im.
06:18:05 <int-e> I don't hate Ruby. I can't. I haven't used it. I have a prejudice against it that means I won't pick it up voluntarily. That's all.
06:18:22 <imode> ruby is alright. people go too far sometimes with DSL-oriented stuff.
06:18:26 <imode> sinatra is a nice library.
06:18:38 <nakilon> lmao, you behave like real teenager; what's wrong about english language?
06:18:58 <nakilon> toxic
06:19:00 <int-e> nakilon: Do you know what projection is...
06:19:11 <imode> you can't parse things correctly so you read intent correctly. people do it. it's fine.
06:19:22 <imode> s/intent correctly/intent incorrectly
06:19:23 <kmc> I used to care a lot about programming languages
06:19:25 <imode> there I go projecting again.
06:19:44 <kmc> now I spend my time growing mushrooms
06:19:56 <imode> but are they ISO standard mushrooms.
06:20:19 <kmc> fungot: is there an ISO standard for mushrooms?
06:20:19 <fungot> kmc: we did not allow a motion for the interinstitutional agreement with the binding part a. parliament will recall and the record shows that during the vote on that issue the european parliament and fnord should be able to do this.
06:20:30 <kmc> I see
06:20:34 <imode> seems like a vote is required.
06:21:01 <int-e> fungot saves the day once again
06:21:01 <fungot> int-e: mr president, first i want to concentrate on his proposal in paragraph 6 about the absence of european union budgetary absurdity. the commission does not accept amendment no 3
06:21:06 <int-e> `? fungot
06:21:06 <fungot> int-e: mr president, you cannot say, on behalf of my group is very unhappy, to say " yes" vote. there are occasions when " a one size fits all' legislation which ignores the lessons of poverty i, ii and iii, target methods, must be called to account for the spending of the structural fnord, because of the specific directives cover both these spheres of cooperation.
06:21:08 <HackEso> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
06:24:01 <nakilon> people hate those who can what they can't
06:29:55 <int-e> `learn An opinion is but the first step towards a fully fledged flame war.
06:29:57 <HackEso> Learned 'opinion': An opinion is but the first step towards a fully fledged flame war.
06:30:46 <imode> I remember when I get used to get heated about languages. that was when I knew one language and thought my opinion extended to things I barely used.
06:31:18 <nakilon> why then you keep behaving like that?
06:31:39 <nakilon> I didn't touch you and you started false accusations
06:32:06 <imode> argentina
06:32:34 <nakilon> not that I don't know the answer to this question -- I just wonder how exactly you are going to pretend
06:32:45 <imode> ice cream
06:33:41 <int-e> "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -- Bjarne Stroustrup
06:34:44 <shachaf> Presumably that's whatever the dual of an inclusive or is.
06:34:59 <int-e> equivalence?
06:35:08 <int-e> oh wait, never mind.
06:35:20 <shachaf> Where the claim is that languages have at least one of those properties.
06:35:24 <int-e> (inclusive, not exclusive)
06:35:43 <shachaf> Maybe that's just a regular inclusive or.
06:36:11 <nakilon> the funny sentence you once write does not have to be true to make people repeat it for ages
06:36:18 <shachaf> Whatever. C++ is so far from Pareto-optimal and it gets farther with every new version.
06:36:37 <imode> wintery mix
06:37:26 <nakilon> the more correct the sentence is the more hard it is to be understood and remembered
06:39:33 <int-e> . o O ( But the converse is not true. )
06:40:02 <imode> apple butter
06:40:23 <imode> just wondering if I can exhaust this conversation tree by uttering random shit.
06:40:56 <nakilon> try to add something valuable
06:41:16 <imode> moon cake
06:41:33 <zzo38> O, is that what Stroustrup said? Probably it is true, even if not entirely absolute (for various reasons).
06:48:45 <int-e> All absolute truths are false. I think.
06:49:26 <int-e> (Not quite paradoxical.)
06:52:27 <zzo38> I don't think so. Mathematical truths can be true (although, if you try to write it in words or symbols without a context of the system in use, then that representation isn't an absolute meaning, since it is only a representation in words or symbols).
06:58:18 <int-e> zzo38: It's classically false, of course. Assuming it were true, it should be false, which is a contradiction. So it must be false... and there's no contradiction at all (which means it's not a paradox).
07:00:11 <int-e> On a different note... today's AoC twist seems to be unfriendly towards Haskell (I actually used C for that part).
07:04:57 <nakilon> there should be a language that is self-modifying but on itself
07:05:15 <imode> you'll find some of that in largely homoiconic languages.
07:05:16 <nakilon> the more data go through the more code changes
07:05:20 <nakilon> like a road
07:07:28 <nakilon> like here http://www.zachtronics.com/infinifactory/
07:08:12 <nakilon> sometimes to solve the puzzle or to golf it the program was finishing building itself already in runtime
07:08:39 <int-e> "the more data go through the more code changes" reminds me of the runner-ups in http://underhanded-c.org/_page_id_16.html
07:09:46 <int-e> (The RC4 ones)
07:12:10 <nakilon> actually the space of the Infinifactory reminds the funge space
07:12:21 <nakilon> if only data could move
07:12:45 <nakilon> that's the basic thing in other Zachtronix games like SpaceChem and OpusMagnum
07:14:06 <nakilon> so the solution in these games is a... coordinates of blocks in 2d or 3d space, like instructions in funge
07:15:01 <nakilon> the huge Conway's Life machines do something similar when they send planers from one side to another
07:15:59 <nakilon> in SpaceChem the input enters the field and you build the rules to move it further
07:17:15 <nakilon> in TIS-100 the data space isn't a big grid with "code" placed wherever you want, but 9 (or 12, I don't remember) modules
07:19:21 <nakilon> so imagine you have strings going from stdin to stdout through a space and you describe the regions that process the data when it comes in
07:20:08 <nakilon> hm, I moved from the idea of self-modifying to some another stuff
07:20:20 <nakilon> I just think zachtronix games are inspirational here
08:23:05 <oren> I have had tcc crash compiling one of the tools for my font
08:23:22 <oren> how can I locate where tcc is crashing
08:25:38 <shachaf> Run it in a debugger?
08:25:56 <imode> compile it with debugging symbols and run it in a debugger.
08:26:59 <nakilon> is it possible to find all wiki pages that belong to two specified categories?
08:28:59 <nakilon> I guess this is it https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multi-Category_Search but I don't know how to find even if this extension is available
08:39:58 <int-e> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Version ... nope
08:42:11 <nakilon> does wiki have json api?
08:42:59 <nakilon> I'm trying to use a tool then to parse the category pages I need but it throws "json parse error" that tried to parse html
08:43:32 <zzo38> Look at the MediaWiki documentation. I know there is a API.
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08:47:46 <oren> #include <fcntl.h>
08:47:46 <oren> struct bdfinfo;
08:47:47 <oren> struct bdfinfo fontinfo;
08:47:54 <oren> this is all that is needed
08:48:12 <oren> if you don't include fcntl.h it works fine
08:48:27 <nakilon> the website throws The action specified by the URL is invalid.  on #<MediaWiktory::Wikipedia::Actions::Query {"meta"=>"siteinfo"}>
08:48:36 <oren> or, well, it gives an error message, but the point is it doesn't crash
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08:52:43 <oren> running the preprocessing step separately from compilation prevents the error
08:55:13 <shachaf> oren: I get "it.c:3: error: unknown type size"
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08:58:49 <nakilon> nevermind, another library works
09:15:58 <oren> yeah it appears to be some sort of interaction between the version of TCC i'm using and the version of gnu stdlib I'm using
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10:26:35 <nakilon> so I hope I won't get tired too soon filling this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14_y5yUEU9yrb-vuFzxwuJKBP8ri5ruav8SmD0qEysbs/edit?usp=sharing
10:30:19 <oren> #define __END_DECLS
10:30:20 <oren> typedef unsigned int __uint32_t;
10:30:20 <oren> __END_DECLS
10:30:20 <oren> struct bdfinfo;
10:30:20 <oren> struct bdfinfo fontinfo;
10:44:19 <shachaf> oren: Still just an error.
10:45:22 <oren> interesting
10:45:44 <shachaf> In both Ubuntu tcc 0.9.27 and latest git tcc.
10:46:04 <shachaf> I have run into other tcc bugs, though.
10:49:07 <oren> looks like it was fixed in .27
10:59:21 <nakilon> https://scott.mn/2014/08/25/coding_in_notepad/
11:11:15 <shachaf> Here'a a tcc bug:
11:11:52 <shachaf> #define struct()
11:11:55 <shachaf> struct
11:11:56 <shachaf> #if 0
11:11:59 <shachaf> #endif
11:11:59 <shachaf> test;
11:17:55 <nakilon> ok, I'm tired finishing the 2000 year; from 40 languages only 15 are uniq by author and have the reference interpreter
11:21:11 <nakilon> the full list is 1300 languages that is approximately 400, even if I take 10 per year that would be...200 more entries that is... 10 hours of work
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11:40:26 <nakilon> the mentioned "The action specified by the URL is invalid" error was because I passed the url to esolang website without the '/w/api.php' (that should be included when using mediawiki api libraries)
12:02:31 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79581&oldid=73077 * Baidicoot * (-2) 
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19:31:02 <int-e> . o O ( forced to always play the same note... flute player blows whistle on conductor )
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23:12:13 <fizzie> Party Wall is such a funny term. It comes up in UK planning documents a lot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_wall#England_and_Wales), but my immediate connotations are always to some sort of a BBS-era Twitter equivalent.
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