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01:39:03 <esowiki> [[Pain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81067 * RetroPain * (+3087) Created page with "'''Pain''' is an [[Esoteric_programming_language|Esolang]] created by [[user:RetroPain]] ==List of Instuctions== {| class="wikitable" !Instruction !Description |- | style="tex..."
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03:36:33 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81068&oldid=81067 * RetroPain * (+23)
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07:50:21 <esowiki> [[User:TaterTomorrow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81069 * TaterTomorrow * (+219) Made my user page.
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15:17:31 <esowiki> [[Pain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81070&oldid=81068 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+109) C a t s
15:17:52 <esowiki> [[Pain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81071&oldid=81070 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) /* List of Instuctions */ fix
15:18:12 <esowiki> [[Talk:Pain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81072 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+254) /* String */ new section
15:36:36 <nakilon> the best Wikipedia Software Comparison Table ever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Java_Remote_Desktop_projects
15:55:13 <fizzie> It looked a little more complete back at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_Java_Remote_Desktop_projects&oldid=866079243
15:55:32 <fizzie> Then someone went and "removed program without article, deemed not notable".
16:22:42 <nakilon> oh I saw such edit already for a comparison of profilers
16:23:22 <nakilon> I think it's counterproductive
16:34:21 <esowiki> [[User:RetroPain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81073&oldid=81044 * RetroPain * (+86)
16:48:25 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81074&oldid=81071 * RetroPain * (+203) /* List of Instuctions */
16:54:49 <esowiki> [[User:RetroPain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81075&oldid=81073 * RetroPain * (+67) /* My esolangs */
16:56:43 <esowiki> [[User:RetroPain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81076&oldid=81075 * RetroPain * (-2)
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17:17:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81077&oldid=81072 * RetroPain * (+221) /* String */
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17:26:41 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81078&oldid=81074 * RetroPain * (+680)
18:45:45 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81079&oldid=81078 * RetroPain * (+513) /* Hello, world */
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20:26:58 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, one of the goals of the esowiki is to serve as a loading place for non-notable esolang-related content, so that people put their first and very innovative ascii-art dick without control flow esolang here instead of trying to make an article on Wikipedias for them
20:33:54 <nakilon> arseniiv there is a subreddit for cats
20:35:06 * nakilon changed name to innovative_uncontroled_dick
20:35:13 <arseniiv> nakilon: wait, they write there or?..
20:36:15 <nakilon> though the subreddit is currently lame because moderators were away
20:36:36 <arseniiv> yep I agree we couldn’t disprove they aren’t cats, for example they might be cute small turtles
20:43:50 <arseniiv> also if you want to read and then maybe write some nonse, there is now https://gist.github.com/arseniiv/859d9bbf2cb8c0054ff17c03e41bf6d1
20:49:50 <nakilon> arseniiv any output example?
20:50:07 <arseniiv> after the snail takes a coin, it doesn’t vanish
20:50:20 <arseniiv> yep I should paste the output from the usual run
20:51:05 <arseniiv> damn, and I thought why the lazy strategy is so unreasonably good; now I see
20:56:41 <nakilon> wait, I thought it's a text generator
21:11:22 <esowiki> [[Talk:Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81080&oldid=81077 * RetroPain * (+115) /* String */
21:26:17 * nakilon has achieved the ~90% accuracy in measuring which photo is cool and which isn't
21:47:06 <HackEso> smlist 521: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
21:49:02 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81081&oldid=81079 * RetroPain * (+4112)
21:51:40 <nakilon> since there were already two men (me and some guy few days ago) who wants to intersect categories in esowiki
21:51:42 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81082&oldid=81048 * RetroPain * (+11) /* P */
21:52:05 <nakilon> and since scraping them was a pretty quick and trivial thing
21:52:57 <nakilon> I could make a webpage that refreshes sometimes and provides some interface like... adding tags (categories) to a list to print their intersection
21:53:12 <nakilon> could probably be adapted to other wikis but I don't use any
21:53:56 <nakilon> and I'm not into HTML/CSS so I don't know which libraries I should take for such interface but that's not a big problem I guess
21:58:20 <nakilon> it's a Cat Day today in Russia
21:58:47 <zzo38> You can design the interface without CSS if the interface doesn't need it. I do know how to make forms in HTML; you do not need any library to do so.
21:59:41 <nakilon> but people love bells and wistles
22:01:14 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81083&oldid=81063 * RetroPain * (+119)
22:04:22 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81084&oldid=81081 * RetroPain * (+4) /* Truth-Machine */
22:04:58 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81085&oldid=81084 * RetroPain * (+0) /* Truth-Machine */
22:05:12 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81086&oldid=81085 * RetroPain * (+0) /* truth-machine */
22:05:25 <arseniiv> <nakilon> it's a Cat Day today in Russia => :o I didn’t know, I mewed (I mean that was my cat, she’s mewed) completely accidentally
22:06:56 <arseniiv> nakilon: I know MediaWiki has API so you won’t necessary have to scrape the data from wiki pages, but I’m very bad at HTML+CSS+JS too
22:07:15 <nakilon> arseniiv I meant scraping the API
22:07:15 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81087&oldid=81086 * RetroPain * (+109) /* Truth-machine */
22:07:45 <arseniiv> (I wanted to make a simple browser-based sound tool and I procrastinate doing that for several months now)
22:08:06 <arseniiv> so at least MW’s API should be not that bad, though I heard it may be too
22:08:57 <arseniiv> ah! It also had a Python API (which uses the regular HTTP one, of course), though I don’t remember if it was exclusively for bots or any users
22:09:09 <nakilon> it just needs a minute to scrape all the categories so it should rather be done periodically than when the user asks
22:10:26 <nakilon> or, of course, it can scrape only the categories the user choses
22:11:39 <nakilon> and if he choses too many categories it will stop scraping when the folded intersection results has reached the empty array, but what if user want to not only intersect but also merge
22:13:03 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81088&oldid=81087 * RetroPain * (+3) /* Simple Pain Instuctions */
22:15:26 <arseniiv> maybe something like simple query language which has `AND` and `OR` and the parser constructs a, well, schedule what categories to scrape and what operations to make with the results. If it would take too long to do that and only finally show the result, only then a more complex design could be made?..
22:16:49 <arseniiv> I’m giving silly unnecessary advice today, I don’t know why
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22:17:47 <b_jonas> nakilon: https://esolangs.org/logs/2021-02.html#l5Ib re category intersection
22:18:21 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81089&oldid=81088 * RetroPain * (+3) /* Simple Pain Instuctions */
22:18:45 <nakilon> arseniiv that advise isn't silly, actually it fits the target audience
22:19:03 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81090&oldid=81089 * RetroPain * (+36)
22:19:32 <arseniiv> I just didn’t know if it would be more of a parsing problem or something else
22:20:28 <nakilon> when I tried Wikipedia API tools like this one it could not search even Wikipedia itself
22:20:48 <nakilon> and guys on Wikipedia IRC channel didn't figure out what's wrong ..D
22:21:37 <arseniiv> though I won’t advice writing parsers in JS, that’s a language which had an underspecified String.split or String.replace, which broke when empty strings were passed as some of the arguments; don’t remember precisely what but that would be unthinkable for another mature language to have at its age
22:22:10 <nakilon> but at least it's an example of interface
22:22:30 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81091&oldid=81090 * RetroPain * (+73)
22:23:39 <arseniiv> btw unrelated, I wonder what wonders are to come in Python 3.10. One guy implements a pattern matching PEP, that would be nice to have at last
22:24:07 <nakilon> just check what was implemented in Ruby years ago
22:24:26 <nakilon> they mimic it with just a delay of ~10 years
22:24:37 <arseniiv> I know Python is too bland to mention frequently on this channel, but that’s my current language of choice, given it has a decent typing with tools like mypy. No Haskell but still nice, portable etc. numpy
22:24:58 <nakilon> took the pattern matching idea relatively fast though, just in two years or so
22:25:19 <zzo38> A SQLite extension would help I think, then you can use full SQL codes to query it, including joins, intersections, etc. Another alternative would be RDF (you can then use SPARQL to query it, or my own idea which is SQL+RDF which is a bit similar). (I also recently saw something else that use PostgreSQL to access remote data with APIs, so that is another alternative.)
22:25:48 <nakilon> zzo38 there is wiki plugin with web interface, it's just not installed
22:26:27 <arseniiv> (Ruby is… fail-unsafe, I’d say. Too dynamic? How do I say. That’s all a matter of taste of course, also I can’t stomach Perl too)
22:26:46 <nakilon> don't listen to propaganda
22:27:01 <zzo38> I also agree JavaScript is not the best programming language to write a parser, although you can do so and it will work OK. (I have done a few times)
22:27:05 <nakilon> Ruby was always the same as Python in view of safety and application
22:27:17 <nakilon> only had much better stdlib, syntax, etc.
22:27:31 <arseniiv> (though Perl has a thing like marpa parsing engine, ah)
22:28:04 <zzo38> My programming language of choice mostly is C, but for some things, other programming languages can be good, and sometimes more than one is used
22:28:26 <zzo38> (C with GNU extensions)
22:28:33 <nakilon> just read which language was invented when and why
22:28:40 <arseniiv> I meant another kind of unsafeness, I can’t say exactly what I meant. I read the Ruby book a time ago and it was interesting but hm
22:28:48 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81092&oldid=81091 * RetroPain * (+3) /* Some other facts */
22:29:03 <nakilon> Ruby took the best from Python, Perl and Smalltalk and discarded the worst
22:29:09 <arseniiv> I wonder if it admits static typing that well?..
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22:29:25 <arseniiv> I can’t live without static types too long, I’m afraid :D
22:29:40 <nakilon> arseniiv it's already in Ruby 3.0
22:29:57 <arseniiv> will need to check out some time then
22:30:07 <nakilon> and was already for several years in Ruy 2.x via libraries
22:30:51 <nakilon> I didn't use it but AFAIK it's similar to Python in that you can either specify types or not, as much of them as you want
22:31:10 <zzo38> For some programs, I invent a programming language for its use; e.g. Free Hero Mesh has its own programming language (although Free Hero Mesh itself is written in C). I also think that should be invented a programming language for defining Magic: the Gathering cards, although I have not done that or implemented it, I wrote some ideas. Many other programs do similar things, but some use Lua or something like that instead.
22:32:19 <nakilon> https://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/3.0.0/doc/syntax/pattern_matching_rdoc.html
22:32:49 <zzo38> (Also, JavaScript does not have PCRE regular expressions, so that is one thing that makes it worse.)
22:36:57 <nakilon> every corner of this language is full of bad language design decisions like this one
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22:43:51 <b_jonas> nakilon: sometimes it works, sometimes it silently doesn't give results or silently gives too few. I never figured out why. still better than nothing.
22:54:11 <shachaf> Wait, I don't want PCRE as a default at all.
22:56:29 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81093&oldid=81092 * RetroPain * (+92) /* Example programs */
22:59:25 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81094&oldid=81093 * RetroPain * (+95) /* Simple Pain */
23:01:39 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81095&oldid=81094 * RetroPain * (+0) /* Simple Pain Instuctions */
23:04:38 <zzo38> OK, then, which one do you want?
23:05:18 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81096&oldid=81095 * RetroPain * (+4) /* Hello, world */
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23:19:28 <arseniiv> shachaf: .net-compliant regexp syntax?
23:20:02 <shachaf> Something with no backtracking.
23:27:12 <arseniiv> there are those ?-suffixed quantifiers ?? +? *?, do they behave better in this regard? I don’t precisely remember what’s the difference between them and usual greedy and non-greedy varietes
23:30:29 <shachaf> Well, I just want a guarantee that it won't accidentally use a lot of time when matching.
23:31:48 <shachaf> Using the ?-suffixed things doesn't do that.
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23:45:58 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81097&oldid=81096 * RetroPain * (+14) /* Proto Pain */
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23:48:43 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81098&oldid=81097 * RetroPain * (+0) /* Simple Pain Instuctions */