< 1615075365 354752 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615079202 887055 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615079410 980815 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615080020 62492 :ubq323!~ubq323@host86-155-175-238.range86-155.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1615081911 450716 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1615085016 85254 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615085134 629361 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615085134 896348 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1615086589 48968 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615087813 797702 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615090807 751427 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615090844 573776 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615093419 130494 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615093828 915106 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615094143 879752 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615095982 164864 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1615096096 953388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Patternfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81205&oldid=80172 5* 03Robolta 5* (+22) 10/* Overview */ < 1615096103 867978 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615096221 577922 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some time ago someone mentioned two dimensional regular expressions. I had thought of some ideas about that too, because I intended to add a similar feature into Free Hero Mesh. < 1615096716 603273 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting idea < 1615096719 800709 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work? < 1615096847 592549 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I had is that it contains directions, which can be relative or absolute. It can also have loops and alternation like ordinary regular expressions, as well as some other things, such as callouts. < 1615097121 33098 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the basic idea is not so difference from one dimensional regular expressions, except that the match can be in any direction and can change directions too. < 1615098489 490868 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615098583 431866 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1615099245 415602 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615101847 286087 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1615101915 975034 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN :#esoteric < 1615106884 62916 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615107647 7906 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1615108150 516505 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1615108304 986622 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1615108394 975501 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615108998 881242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1615110200 938703 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615110226 57014 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615112629 24544 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615120930 210427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. I've got this automated backup thing that reads org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.IdleHint and .IdleSinceHint to only run when the computer's been idle for at least two hours, but now it's somehow broken again and thinks it hasn't been idle since Feb 28. < 1615120938 451180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been unable to find any real documentation how exactly "idleness" is measured. < 1615121034 288739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( maybe you need to set up a cron job that resets the idle counter ) < 1615121106 506461 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows nothing about this business.
< 1615121137 579882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to "just work", so I didn't bother trying to figure out how exactly it knows. < 1615121158 992826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's got something to do with logind "sessions". < 1615121266 938647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are per-session idle hints as well, and looks like I've got two active sessions, one of which says it's been non-idle since I woke up (fair enough), and the other which says it's been non-idle since Feb 27, so it's presumably that other session that's the problem. < 1615121358 799107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of the sessions say they are "lightdm-xsession" sessions on the same display (:0). The okay-behaving one says it's in "active" state, but the other's in "closing" state. < 1615121386 786808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess that probably means there's some lingering process that got started in the "old" session that's keeping it alive. < 1615121483 682953 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... loginctl show-session? Ah, unsurprisingly that hint shows my login time. :P < 1615121541 847058 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just have a plain fvwm2 which I suspect is too old for this crap, or maybe would need some more gnome* stuff to support this.) < 1615121601 518300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a reasonably "plain" XMonad as well, but I think either xss-lock or xsecurelock does the necessary magic to mark it as idle when it's locked. < 1615121650 859563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine there's some way to see which processes are part of "session-2.scope", so I could figure out why that other session is still in "closing" state. < 1615121697 397125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, `systemctl status session-2.scope` < 1615121782 714353 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shows there's a CGroup that contains `adb -L tcp:5037 fork-server server --reply-fd 4` in it. So I guess I did some adb stuff, then restarted X (I vaguely remember doing that for some reason), and that thing stayed there. < 1615121788 700711 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much magic. < 1615121828 756551 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, after `adb kill-server` the other session has now closed. Mystery solved, *and* complaining about it to IRC helped again. < 1615121941 48824 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... where'd my xdm go < 1615122182 629076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go... systemctl said it got killed by SIGUSR2 on startup? and it didn't clean up its lock file, grmbl. < 1615122264 95482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I bet xdm won't do anything about keeping track of idle states either :) < 1615122364 324601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but this way it's honest about it: IdleHint=no < 1615122365 227755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. I think it's xss-lock doing it for me, for the record. < 1615122385 371124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas before I guess it tracked activity in the shell where I did startx. < 1615122404 584450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unsurprisingly, there was no such activity at all) < 1615122426 726323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's got a `static void logind_session_set_idle_hint(gboolean idle);` function in the code. < 1615122446 777492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IdleHint is a boolean where false ("no"?) means "not idle". IdleSinceHint says when the IdleHint was last changed. < 1615122554 785909 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. Okay, let's `watch` this while I get myself some food :) < 1615124355 999259 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1615124371 931676 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1615124680 928290 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1615126400 240420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, it's not idle yet. < 1615126432 704021 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: arguably you should be checking all sessions. but it's also bad that that adb kept running < 1615128150 214523 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615128274 39671 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1615129047 145937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sploosh14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81206&oldid=77677 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10/* Hello World example (or Jello Woqld, or Fello Wollf, or many other unpredictable results) */ Format; wbr > 1615129577 217485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sploosh14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81207&oldid=81206 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10/* Some looping and array examples */ Format, wbr > 1615130024 843930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Immi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81208&oldid=25976 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* what did (variable name) say? */ Format > 1615130122 413609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Immi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81209&oldid=81208 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10/* Commands */ Format < 1615131023 181604 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1615133637 271157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: There's a "global" idle hint (/org/freedesktop/login1, org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.Idle(Since)Hint) that combines the information from all sessions; that's the one I'm checking. AFAICT it's idle iff all sessions are idle, that's why the state=closing session was blocking the backups. < 1615133693 356900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I misunderstood then, I thought that session counted as idle < 1615133732 79256 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I think it only counts as idle if something explicitly sets it as idle, and there was nothing running in there that could. < 1615133772 35870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, while the X session is idle because xss-lock sets it so, I wonder how/why SSH sessions become idle too. Because I've occasionally had an SSH session open for weeks/months, and the backups haven't stalled. < 1615133790 755439 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's all adb's fault then for running in the background without dissociating itself from the session (do cgroups even allow that thoug; maybe not, it could easily break containers...) < 1615133835 872245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could stop the server when the session gets closed. I think some kind of a signal is even sent for that? But maybe it ignores that. < 1615133882 289961 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upshot is... I have a few pieces of these puzzles but no picture of how they fit together as a whole. < 1615133934 194641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here. I opened a SSH session, and it's IdleHint = False, IdleSinceHint = time of login. < 1615133993 372892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which makes sense, since what else could it be, but how's that not blocking the backups then?) < 1615134209 178787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A random systemd github issue suggests logind detects idleness for sessions with a TTY by watching the mtime of the associated TTy device (!), so maybe it becomes idle if that crosses some threshold. < 1615134666 235228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay, I got sidetracked by all these other DBus interfaces that this graphical introspection tool (`d-feet`) is showing. I can see my mouse's battery charging level here! < 1615137526 776019 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki JOIN :#esoteric < 1615137563 838460 :wesleyac!~wesleyac@wesleyac.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615137563 838534 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615137563 838562 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1615137710 437398 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-klbjkzhdqvswcwto QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1615137716 385265 :df1111!df1matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nikanfoezheunkfa QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1615137784 567959 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oeeqzrslzuvpoibd QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1615137885 27273 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fvtbjjbnbunfocyv QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1615137986 70865 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1615138719 498462 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-crtebquqjvjlbtal JOIN :#esoteric < 1615138918 40875 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615141018 612494 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615141201 912007 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ixbjppwjoxziqlth JOIN :#esoteric < 1615141335 51261 :df1111!df1matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-itlatndonzxhvsso JOIN :#esoteric < 1615142478 388131 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-erodwkkuuenfnaqj JOIN :#esoteric < 1615143003 499001 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615143309 551059 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615144327 468184 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615144451 628593 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1615144568 173952 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stupidc14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81210&oldid=80374 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+576) 10added notes > 1615145184 852122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Largejamie 5* 10New user account > 1615145308 705686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81211&oldid=81174 5* 03Largejamie 5* (+117) 10/* Introductions */ > 1615145359 601277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81212&oldid=81211 5* 03Largejamie 5* (+89) 10/* Introductions */ < 1615145731 621842 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615145981 197485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that untouched SSH session had indeed become idle. And when I pressed a key in it, it became non-idle. So it does Just Work™ for TTY-type sessions. < 1615146801 520847 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1615147778 568249 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615148859 602 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1615149111 923344 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess it worked that way in UNIX times already... `who` displays idle times and I never wondered where it got those. < 1615149130 513188 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mtime of the tty makes a lot of sense < 1615150520 524909 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my computer the idle column for "who" command just says "old" < 1615151146 35014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I *think* who assumes that c[hange]time = time of login, a[ccess]time = time of last input (so this corresponds to idle time), and m[odify]time = time of last output, when looking at a user's controlling pty < 1615151162 221794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'old' is printed when atime is before ctime. < 1615151205 88177 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1615151276 977983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm there are some oddities... like ^C not counting as an input. (I guess that's an ioctl, not a write) < 1615151310 288753 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm looking at a PTY, not a "real" tty) < 1615158725 782825 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next thing to write in Free Hero Mesh is figuring out what is wrong with some levels involving the $SeekerCloser class in the FALLING puzzle set. < 1615159717 656712 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1615160872 556726 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615161419 54108 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric