> 1616890499 257739 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:202614]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81616 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+77) 10Created page with "This category consists of esolangs made in the year 2026.  [[Category:Years]]"
< 1616892872 584183 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 1000
< 1616892874 83938 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000.00°F = 537.78°C
< 1616892897 864209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dst
< 1616892899 349366 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1616892929 695634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is heavpoot up to now
< 1616893200 868451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mourns the loss of a full hour. We miss you, 2020-03-28, 2am to 3am CET. Life will never be the same without you.

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< 1616893333 87215 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... I mixed up 2020 and 2021
< 1616893484 232593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that's why it's that late already.
< 1616893503 574956 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :F
< 1616893516 519459 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did that a few weeks ago
< 1616893528 903203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at backscroll of another channel after being away a bit, and wondering how could it possibly have been over an hour ago.
< 1616893568 288010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the two weeks between the US and EU DST switches, some of my meetings are earlier than usual.
< 1616893594 82926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when meeting rooms were still a consideration, all of the bookings got messed up for those two weeks.
< 1616893602 892245 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616893619 721431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's 3 weeks... not this year
< 1616893642 379946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had someone join a meeting from a proper meeting room (in Zürich) last week, it was pretty weird.
< 1616893676 310251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And someone else had one of the London office (still fully closed) rooms dial into their meeting automatically, but there was nobody there, which I think would've been not just weird but creepy.
< 1616893839 50390 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1616893866 942547 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :after SARS 3: TurboSARS wipes out all of humanity your conference rooms will still be automatically calling each other
< 1616893886 974043 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :SARS 3.11 for Workgroups
< 1616893913 944417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so you think so? I imagine electricity will fail rather quickly if people are truly wiped out
< 1616894203 299203 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i don't know
< 1616894211 263051 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more of a joke than a serious prediction
< 1616894258 483274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. it's just that this is a question I've actually pondered... with no idea how to estimate this properly
< 1616894452 221436 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I have no real clue how much day to day maintenance people put into maintaining the underlying infrastructure. in this case, electricity and networks.
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> 1616897698 21527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81617&oldid=81579 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+2) 10/* Fibonacci numbers */
< 1616898044 45578 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm amused by the fact that, like many programming languages, OpenSCAD has a lot of libraries pertaining to threads, but "threads" means something completely different
< 1616899450 991407 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "threads" mean in OpenSCAD?
< 1616899685 298319 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye!
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< 1616900729 345460 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: like the threads of a screw
< 1616900741 993389 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 3D CAD language, so there are libraries to generate threads
< 1616900810 889511 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have threads in the other sense, although it is a purely declarative language, so I suppose the implementation is free to evaluate stuff in parallel if it wants to
< 1616904053 454 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1616908937 249889 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
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> 1616911050 342559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81618&oldid=81598 5* 03Citrons 5* (-177) 10add description that we voted on
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< 1616916949 141002 :gurmble!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
> 1616918739 149979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81619&oldid=81446 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+53) 10/* Instructions */
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> 1616921640 544774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:202614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81620&oldid=81616 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (-66) 10Amend to {{Yearcat}}
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> 1616928789 304160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Macron14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81621&oldid=81609 5* 03Ais523 5* (-17) 10obviously 2026 is not an accurate creation year for this esolang
> 1616928821 498407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:202610]]": not useful to have year categories for future years (even if you think an esolang will be created in a given year, you can't be sure)
> 1616928927 842281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81622&oldid=81551 5* 03Ais523 5* (-17) 10I think the consensus is to have some warning mark on links that aren't internal to mainspace that they go someplace else (e.g. userspace or Wikipedia), so making the "wikipedia:" prefix visible
< 1616929952 200849 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616931219 197579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616931232 842392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering whether zipquines are Turing-complete, Underload/Muriel-style
< 1616931262 793771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the zip file expands to a directory containing another zip file, which expands to a directory containing another zip file, etc., and if you keep expanding forever, either you reach an empty directory (halting) or you don't
< 1616931290 106996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also take input by expanding to a directory with multiple files (choose which to open), or produce output by putting a .txt file with the output in the expanded directory
< 1616931320 779694 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in rar, it should be easily doable
< 1616931326 240271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic problem is as to whether the compression algorithm that .zip uses is capable of implementing a TC language when interpreted that way
< 1616931350 448531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about how rar works internally
< 1616931373 807792 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/taviso/rarvmtools
< 1616931395 238316 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr there is an assembly to rar compiler
< 1616931399 997139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, deprecated :-(
< 1616931410 324788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably for the best?
< 1616931430 191313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A RarVM program may execute for at most 250,000,000 instructions, at which point it will be terminated abnormally."
< 1616931434 140729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a limit on TCness
< 1616931444 892823 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1616931461 53713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not, it could be possible to use multiple programs for the actual logic and store data in large segments that just get copied literally
< 1616931509 944347 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember having a tiny rar file with a valid jpg of like 1 gb or something that you could use to get more storage in dropbox
< 1616931619 667376 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: how did it work?
< 1616931636 299403 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw hi #esoteric
< 1616931687 152446 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just have a rarvm program printing the jpg header and drop a bunch of zeros in a loop
< 1616932845 471565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I like the two weeks between the US and EU DST switches, some of my meetings are earlier than usual. ← has the EU postponed its decision to stop using daylight saving time?
< 1616932867 26347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the UK is keeping it for the time being, but they weren't included in the decision because of Brexit)
< 1616932890 602893 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@128-124-93-188.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1616932959 122389 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it's not postponed, it's not entirely clear whether to stay in normal or summer time
< 1616932976 331014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it was postponed to October 2021, but then there was a row related to Ireland
< 1616932984 18769 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1616932995 342262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Northern Ireland is currently planning to keep daylight saving time but the Republic of Ireland doesn't want to be in a different timezone from it
< 1616933009 448385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the next steps are somewhat unclear
< 1616933010 675877 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1616933065 147946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly it was IANA who caused the initial postponement, they said they couldn't get the world's timezone infrastructure updated by the deadline unless they had more notice
< 1616933101 20524 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how many programs are going to be wrong
< 1616933156 153244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timezone updates happen all the time
< 1616933167 617872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not very often for any individual country
< 1616933192 737928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on my Ubuntu system, when a country changes its timezone rules, there's a security update to patch the timezone database with the new information
< 1616933202 770363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably because having the wrong idea of what time it is can be a security problem sometimes)
< 1616933412 196954 :NeverBorn!~NeverBorn@93-41-17-168.ip79.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1616935563 177780 :LKoen!~LKoen@191.254.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1616936505 310691 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any coders here?
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< 1616936685 150306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ontoquina: I think most of the channel is made up of programmers
< 1616936693 506200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they aren't necessarily online at any given time
< 1616936711 392771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the Americans will still be asleep
< 1616936753 865389 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the bots
< 1616936969 825154 :NeverBorn!~NeverBorn@93-41-17-168.ip79.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616936981 76280 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a c programmer?
< 1616937036 724147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's narrowing it down, but still likely true for many.
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< 1616937068 453488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you a Befunge programmer, or a Befunge program? </deep>
< 1616937068 824625 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: let's ' ang ' er. i think ( relatively, at least in brown university, where we've stolen the material from, they have notion of classes methods, etc.
< 1616937158 173142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( does reading K&R make you a C programmer )
< 1616937981 159056 :stfb!captaintof@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/captaintofuburge JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616937982 372885 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.udoo.org/udoo-quad-dual/
< 1616938021 766414 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for some information which will help me to write a piece of code that will display the output voltage state of the GPIO pin
< 1616938059 488842 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also loop over and over again
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< 1616938185 850404 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also we miss you, 2021-03-26 02:00 to 03:00 Jerusalem time.
< 1616938206 561900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :friday?
< 1616939125 922554 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re zip quines, I expect it might be Turing complete, because zip can probably implement some kind of tag system, encoding state in the current Huffman table which it resets more often than a typical zip file, and then you apply that repeatedly with the zip quine method
< 1616939162 947585 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you'd probably have to waste a lot of space to make the Adler checksum match
< 1616939195 162773 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<ais523> because Northern Ireland is currently planning to keep daylight saving time but the Republic of Ireland doesn't want to be in a different timezone from it / so the next steps are somewhat unclear
< 1616939274 101122 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" => how's it unclear? it's been clear as a day for years that the only way the UK can keep its three contradictory promises (no border between Ireland and Northern Ireland; border between the UK and EU; no independent Northern Ireland) is to convince Ireland to leave the EU. what you say about the timezone just confirms that.
< 1616939503 691190 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<ais523> (presumably because having the wrong idea of what time it is can be a security problem sometimes)" => yep, the specific example I always imagine is when there's a peace conference about some nation that wants to be an independent country specified in local time, the leader of that region has announced three weeks ago on local television that they will use a different timezone, the 
< 1616939509 809851 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :representative of the mediator country checks four sources on the web for what timezone that region uses to make sure he arrives at the right time, but nobody who understands the local language and watches that dictator on TV bothered to write to the timezone mailing list, so the mediator arrives an hour late and a war is started
< 1616939511 53596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ontoquina: I don't think there are many experts on GPIO configuration for specific devices here
< 1616939518 349158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a programming question, more of a finding-documentation question
< 1616939536 827447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because you're trying to hook your own outputs, not take input or produce outputs
< 1616939562 21561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I thought security updates were about computer security, not national security
< 1616939630 322792 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but your definition of security wouldn't have helped me when there's a fucking war 200 kilometers from the south of here
< 1616939645 820184 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/from/to/
< 1616939719 731272 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only saving grace is that the dictator who is the most likely to do this is leading Kazakhstan, which is clearly an independent country, not a region that newly wants to be an independent country. 
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< 1616939823 105068 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not trying to do any of that
< 1616939866 775311 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i want is to make cat value repeat in a terminal for a number of times rather than just type it in
< 1616939879 32207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ontoquina: you might be better off finding some sort of beginning-programming channel, I think; one of the important steps in programming is being able to clearly communicate what you're trying to do
< 1616939891 558196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's that step you're having trouble with, talking to experienced programmers won't normally help much
< 1616940092 881164 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, about that definition, I think at one point debian had separate categories for "security updates" and "volatile"
< 1616940113 836868 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think timezones were in the volatile category, but I'm not sure
< 1616940117 995753 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i found the answer already and yes it was a simple terminal entry
< 1616940269 528660 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question was quite simple,.. how do i loop the command cat value in a linux terminal?
< 1616940398 702748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough, but that had nothing to do with C programming.
< 1616940417 593021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ontoquina: that isn't a simple question, because it doesn't clearly define what you're trying to do or what the problem is
< 1616940436 213738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't possible to interpret what you mean without more information
< 1616940445 746401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still don't have much of an idea of what you were trying to do or what you did to change it
> 1616940466 458961 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitBounce14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81623&oldid=65732 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2122) 10Add TIO links
< 1616940485 489112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that topic, though, I never remember to use watch(1) for anything, even though it's kind of a neat tool.
< 1616940498 419251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although one possible interpretation would have lead to an amusing answer: "what's the shell command to produce the same output over and over again in a loop?" "yes")
< 1616940508 912955 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.howtoforge.com/linux-watch-command/
< 1616940526 348790 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are welcome
< 1616940536 295954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I didn't know of it
< 1616940541 963718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess top is just a fancier version of watch ps
< 1616940585 557264 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have actually used something like watch 'some other command; top b'
< 1616940597 515490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch -n 0.1 date #command line "real time" clock
< 1616940617 461917 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly watch 'df $dest; top b' where $dest is where I'm writing the compressed backup
< 1616940631 696858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I keep doing `while true; date; sleep 0.3; done`
< 1616940642 358053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although for a one-line command I kind of like seeing the history.
< 1616940646 355540 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually that's redundant because `watch` also displays the date)
< 1616940651 227103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: -n 1 -p would be enough, if you ran it just marginally after the start of a second
< 1616940658 121590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use only 1/10 of the CPU time
< 1616940672 659754 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't trust myself to do that.
< 1616940675 380843 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right sure i understand what you are saying
< 1616940692 585378 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "marginally after the start of a second part, that is)
< 1616940824 225822 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did that this morning around 2am :) (And I only used it for a few seconds anyway)
< 1616940841 693889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've watched the daylight saving time in ages
< 1616940845 444823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was asleep when it happened today
< 1616940926 241684 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane
< 1616941071 370993 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I think I've been using (watch ls $dest) or similar to watch the list of compressed backup files grow
< 1616941128 372521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my usual technique for that (not that I use it very often) is just to run ls manually every now and then
< 1616941132 3603 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one screen window; the other window shows the output from my compressed backup tool (which is a perl script that is one of the longest lived utility that I wrote, and might soon beat cbstream in that ranking) and from the 7z compressor that it invokes
< 1616941159 825701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally do my backups with rsync
< 1616941177 592468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried a variety of tools over the years, but rsync has the benefit of being incredibly simple
< 1616941202 130006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and producing backups that can be restored without it)
< 1616941220 168318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compressing backups is of course possible, but I'm not completely sure it's worth it, especially as fast compressors tend not to get good ratios
< 1616941244 824385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've settled on bip and some homegrown infrastructure around it.
< 1616941258 681691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, bup, not bip.
< 1616941273 489529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is that IRC proxy, which I've also settled on, but isn't related to backups.
< 1616941294 228853 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compression helps for full backups, where the file system contains a lot of files that compress well even with fast compressors, but admittedly this was more important back when I wrote backups to CDs or DVDs
< 1616941335 670875 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't help for backing up all my JPEG photos obviously
< 1616941344 933701 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or films
< 1616941353 751393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the paradox of compressed backups is that the files that compress well are generally the small ones that don't need compressing
< 1616941362 970569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the big ones are probably stored in a compressed format already
< 1616941423 35880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optical disc images are one category of files that can be reasonably big yet sometimes still compressible.
< 1616941445 891264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because of whoever made the disc wanted the program using it to be able to read data without worrying about compression.)
< 1616941448 314875 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (1) small files don't matter, for a backup I use solid compression because I don't need to be able to random access individual files from the backup quickly; (2) I have a build directory with lots of third party software source code that is uncompressed at any moment, and I don't bother excluding the uncompressed versions from the backup
< 1616941530 557662 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you'd think that, but have you checked how large the live system image is on a debian hybrid installer and live image DVD? it seems impossible to fit both the live image and package repository in that space even with compression
< 1616941625 240462 :ontoquina!~ontoquina@dynamic-077-004-013-228.77.4.pool.telefonica.de PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1616941636 575028 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old DOS boot floppy uncompresses every program to a ramdisk, so most of the contents is a zip.zip compressed archive, with only IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM, HIMEM.SYS, RAMDRIVE.SYS and four smaller files outside of it
< 1616941682 442146 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly those five big files still take a lot of space on a floppy
< 1616941685 695238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird thinking about memory being larger than disk space
< 1616941696 17526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was indeed the case back before hard drives were common
< 1616941697 392436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, maybe not?
< 1616941710 832357 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't
< 1616941711 318260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.5" floppy disk is 1.44MiB
< 1616941727 453099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conventional memory was 640KiB, but systems normally also had some amount of unconventional memory
< 1616941731 445191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would have been pretty close
< 1616941746 237101 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :people didn't have 640 KiB when they had 1.44MiB floppies
< 1616941755 214672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it ever common to have 360kb floppy, 640k RAM?
< 1616941774 580467 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't the 360k floppy called "double density"? or is that the 720K?
< 1616941792 242180 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people usually had two disk drives if they didn't have a hard drive, and they did usually have a  hard drive, even if a small one
< 1616941793 554040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think high density was 1.44 and double was 720, but I may be completely wrong on that
< 1616941798 79711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to remember after this long
< 1616941808 819709 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :180k per side = single density?
< 1616941827 169387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that on one computer I used, the floppy drive access light went orange for one density of floppy disk and green for the other commonly used density
< 1616941828 60346 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's some trick with "double sided", but maybe that's only for 5 inch (CD-sized) floppies
< 1616941837 948408 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated because those two dimensions developed independently (two-sided floppies and higher density)
< 1616941850 47224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used 5¼ inch floppy disks before, but not on a PC
< 1616941881 308345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're much simpler than the 3½ disks, which have some sort of automatically sliding cover to cover the disk itself
< 1616941905 497744 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the smallest PC I've actually worked on was a laptop with 1M of RAM and 20M of hard disk
< 1616941909 62361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5¼, there wasn't a cover on the disk itself, and the disk came with a little paper jacket that you used to protect it from dust when it wasn't inserted into a drive
< 1616941960 92113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently 8-inch floppy disks also existed but I've never used one
< 1616941969 956011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the main improvement came from the little metal disk in the center, allowing for grabbing the disk with higher precision
< 1616941982 828741 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never used one, but I saw a disk drive exhibited (no longer used) somewhere
< 1616942030 675366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... overall, floppy disk reliability was awful for both 5 1/4" and 3 1/2", at least in my experiencxe
< 1616942044 930844 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think the write protect tabs work backwards on a 5 inch floppy versus a 3.5 inch floppy:
< 1616942104 999717 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1616942105 220664 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 3.5 inch one has a sliding tab and a hole means ... read-only I think, whereas a 5 inch floppy can have a hole punched through its plastic cover in a corner with possibly a plastic sticker to cover it later, and the hole means writable. or backwards. I don't remember.
< 1616942109 882002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had more physical failures of the disks (important connections getting jammed, etc.) than I did data loss
< 1616942120 997952 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the 3.5 inch floppy has a possible hole on its other corner to indicate format
< 1616942126 551112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a collection of floppy disks from when I was younger, but all the data has long since been copied into my home directory
< 1616942132 584752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't consult the disks themselves any more
< 1616942139 451388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a USB floppy drive but have only used it once, I think
< 1616942149 325392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe twice
< 1616942158 932977 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no longer have physical floppy disks or drives. I got rid of all of them, including the physical version of that boot floppy.
< 1616942178 31698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: IIRC solid is writeable, and the hole means read-only, but I might also have that backwards
< 1616942216 499465 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's probably the saner system because then factory-made installer disks just have the sliding tab missing entirely so you can't easily overwrite them
< 1616942221 382266 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by accident that is
< 1616942255 733660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well you could just as easily have an entirely solid disk in that location, no tab or anything, if the opposite convention were being used
< 1616942266 731643 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1616942293 698545 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :punching a hole on a thick 3.5 inch floppy might be harder than covering the hole with one of those stickers for 5 inch floppies
< 1616942322 311014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_protection ... so 8" has the backward convention from 5 1/4"?
< 1616942335 553911 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must have caused quite a few accidents.
< 1616942340 253000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was more thinking about console game disc images, I think they're somewhat compressible sometimes.
< 1616942346 992989 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the save icon on windows is still a floppy disk, which is becoming one of those metaphors increasingly disassociated from its origins
< 1616942381 304659 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, SD cards have a physical write protect switch too, but microSD cards don't
< 1616942396 891465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a 8" floppy disk throwing competition at the university once.
< 1616942400 50498 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically all my recent SD cards are just microSD cards with adapters, because it's slightly cheaper to buy them that way
< 1616942425 776937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I actually had a vague memory that the convention reversed at one point
< 1616942431 555338 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds like a good way to get some use of obsolete stuff that will get discarded anyway
< 1616942444 850968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your article says that it's 5¼ and 3½ that have opposite conventions, though
< 1616942505 864523 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, audio casettes had a write protect tab to. I remember that. I no longer have audio casettes or audio casette players either. 
< 1616942547 473622 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so they switched twice
< 1616942547 473680 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it says both: 5 inch has hole for writable; 8 inch and 3.5 inch has hole for read-only
< 1616942576 908973 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and audio casettes have hole for read-only too
< 1616942642 443620 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk#%E2%80%8B3_1%E2%81%842-inch_disk confirms that the 3.5 inch floppies have a potential hole in the other corner indicating (some) of their format
< 1616942723 360643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew audio cassettes had a hole for read-only, they used to come with tabs covering the hole that you could break off after recording if you wanted to
< 1616942754 979435 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also IIRC the 5 inch floppies use different formats for PC, Commodore VIC-20/64, and Amiga, on the same physical disks
< 1616942783 233947 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you can insert cubes cut from rubber eraser to fill the hole 
< 1616942820 264589 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also audio casettes also have like four physical formats, of which I've seen at least two, allowing for different quality, similar to 3.5 inch disks
< 1616942859 964496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, a floppy disk is basically just a magnetic surface, and formatting it magnetises it in a particular way to define areas to store data
< 1616942883 862476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could change the geometry of the disk "in software" by changing things like the spacing of the tracks, locations of the sectors, etc.
< 1616942902 483254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the disks typically became unreliable if you tried to format them too densely)
< 1616942929 447074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard drives apparently only work with one specific formatting, though, they need synchronization patterns for the drive to work
< 1616942946 295233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "formatting" a hard drive is actually just the creation of a filesystem, rather than the creation of the physical tracks and sectors
< 1616942964 172888 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an 5 inch floppy, magnetic surface plus a physical hole that the drive can sense to find a fixed rotation angle so it can synchronize sectors to that
< 1616942969 80671 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.148 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1616943006 634272 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's for newer hard drives; older ones you could also physically format, they worked rather similar to floppies with very little electronics hardware
< 1616943055 46911 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with most of the electronics in the hard drive controller, and most of the logic in software, specifically a ROM
< 1616943073 197569 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was before my time
< 1616943088 100287 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard disks that I used already had complicated printed circuit boards on them
< 1616943162 898169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some people figured out a way to reprogram hard drive controllers to run arbitrary code
< 1616943177 699262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they have a "real" processor in them, the hard part is just getting the code onto it)
< 1616943197 118138 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that used to be a feature in the floppy disk drives for the Commodore VIC-20/64,
< 1616943215 675634 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a 6502 CPU in them just as powerful as in the computer, only with rather small RAM
< 1616943351 272434 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember I was amazed when we first got a laser printer at home, a HP one, and it had a lot of megabytes of RAM built into it, perhaps 64 megabytes or something, so much that it seemed enough for a smaller PC
< 1616943480 3326 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know why it had that much, because it had resolution of 300 dpi, which means it can store the bitmap for a full page in one megabyte
< 1616943594 5892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there was a full PostScript interpreter on there?
< 1616943607 173323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't run arbitrary code on their printers as often as they should, IMO :-P
< 1616943813 33310 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there was a PostScript interpreter in particular, but it did have something to allow sending graphical data well-compressed 
< 1616943826 551549 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reference, the model is HP LaserJet IIP
< 1616943832 60643 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where II is a roman numeral
< 1616943873 47905 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the era of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER , before printers got a full dot matrix display large enough to port Doom to
< 1616945368 708995 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616945532 124203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the days of word processors getting confused about the Letter vs. A4 difference are gone now, or if they're still there and it's just that I basically never use word processors nowadays
< 1616948411 787039 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1616949144 607386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be a floppy drive controller (or several) for the PC that made it possible to use regular PC floppy drives to access a wider variety of floppy disk formats that you can using the normal interface.
< 1616949160 488860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Computers_Catweasel
< 1616949165 451721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friend of mine had one of those.
< 1616949189 695816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mk3 PCI card version, I think.
< 1616949253 55158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From a brief web search, looks like the modern equivalent is the KryoFlux USB device.)
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< 1616952393 901860 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1616952598 930594 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1616954265 391994 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1616954497 452377 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll have to ask americans. I think A4 won out so you usually get it as the default setting, so it's now people who actually have letter paper who'll get the problem, rather than us
< 1616955739 167161 :adu_!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu_
< 1616956169 15869 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still find stuff set to A4 by default
< 1616956227 934463 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616956448 131435 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did any software require a printer in order that it can make a calculation by PostScript codes while the computer is doing something else, in order to make two calculations at once?
< 1616956511 152445 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course it is only possible if it has the ability to do two way communication; some don't, but some do)
> 1616956568 748331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81624&oldid=81622 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+29) 10How about this?
< 1616956569 770579 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616956679 980077 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had idea about programmable compression format. The file would consists of a series of sections, each with a header indicating the size and flags and kind, which can be a block to load into RAM (which can also contain executable VM code) or a stream (which contains data which can be used as input to the VM code).
< 1616957213 155025 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1616958130 745436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Umanochiocciola 5*  10New user account
> 1616958290 551624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81625&oldid=81597 5* 03Umanochiocciola 5* (+124) 10/* Introductions */
> 1616958386 614009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81626&oldid=81625 5* 03Ais523 5* (-7) 10remove section formatting from an introduction, so that new introductions go in the right place
< 1616958444 158706 :adu_!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616958450 126631 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.148 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1616958644 495243 :adu_!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
> 1616958763 506284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck But With Buffer14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81627 5* 03Umanochiocciola 5* (+418) 10creation
> 1616958778 274139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck But With Buffer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81628&oldid=81627 5* 03Umanochiocciola 5* (-3) 10
< 1616958805 309123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck But With Butter.
< 1616958874 25041 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's better with butter
< 1616959007 72639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had I can't believe it's not butter.
< 1616959336 264619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1616959516 950661 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :butter tastes good, that’s why I try to evade it as it’s also so full of fats
< 1616959553 603628 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with fats, in moderation
< 1616959558 317181 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1616959664 150884 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s why I still eat it, and some oils, and unfortunately high-cocoa chocolate :D
< 1616959711 301387 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you use butter, you want to add another bit and yet another
< 1616959737 363096 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the amount specified in the recipe, I think
< 1616959741 612160 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.89.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if the food is like a sponge and takes melted butter in
< 1616959926 309969 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently some C compilers will optimize better with *(x+y-z) than x[y-z] in some cases, and they changed that in SQLite, but then hey changed it back due to some complaint
< 1616959993 652412 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what type are y and z? are they 32-bit?
< 1616960037 29587 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are they signed?
< 1616960063 483158 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-168.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would *(x+(y-z)) work?
< 1616960107 176024 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me to check.
< 1616960240 83925 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like in this case, z is a constant. I don't know what type y is, but it may be less than 32-bits
< 1616960308 152403 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it is 8-bits, it looks like
< 1616960474 940647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would promote to `int` for the purposes of `y-z`. I guess not in `*(x+y-z)`, where it would just be an adjustment to the pointer.
< 1616960500 948569 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616960549 80379 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1616960587 686336 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1616960797 132313 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although still that seems like it should be optimized
> 1616960981 473793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck But With Buffer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81629&oldid=81628 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2146) 10List commands; example; cats; format
> 1616961030 247102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81630&oldid=81588 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10/* B */ [[Brainfuck But With Buffer]]
> 1616961186 998129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81631&oldid=81504 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+339) 10/* Babbage's design */
> 1616961626 529463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81632&oldid=81631 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+367) 10/* Commands */
< 1616961682 735522 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it does that only on 64-bit computers or if it does that on 32-bit also.
< 1616961711 563515 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, I don't even know if it does that on 64-bit. I have not tested it. But, maybe it does have to do with having a pointer size bigger than int size.)
> 1616961723 659190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81633&oldid=81632 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+81) 10/* Babbage's design */
< 1616961944 642812 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if that is the case, it shouldn't matter, since the result won't differ in this case with the type promotion
> 1616963946 668982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81634&oldid=81633 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+1909) 10/* Commands */
> 1616964090 647029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81635&oldid=81634 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+91) 10/* Babbage's design */
> 1616964170 617204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Hyperdawg 5*  10New user account
< 1616965282 830305 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1616965786 292872 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1616966189 488378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81636&oldid=81635 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+1216) 10/* Commands */
> 1616966438 750304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81637&oldid=81636 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+251) 10/* John Walker's Assumptions */
< 1616966438 976302 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1616966495 116530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81638&oldid=81637 5* 03Quintopia 5* (-23) 10/* Commands */
> 1616966776 45769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Macron14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81639&oldid=81621 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+17) 10Undo revision 81621 by [[Special:Contributions/Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) - undo obvious vandalism
> 1616967312 242441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Macron14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81640&oldid=81639 5* 03Not applicable 5* (-17) 10Undo revision 81639 by [[Special:Contributions/Heavpoot|Heavpoot]] ([[User talk:Heavpoot|talk]]) [[User:Ais523]] is an admin of esolangs.org. He/she knows what they are doing.
> 1616967574 981108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blindfolded Arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81641&oldid=79064 5* 03B jonas 5* (+58) 10/* See also */
> 1616967602 534495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analytical Engine Programming Cards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81642&oldid=81638 5* 03B jonas 5* (+71) 10
> 1616967667 61274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blindfolded Arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81643&oldid=81641 5* 03B jonas 5* (-3) 10/* External links */ link rot
< 1616969085 17184 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1616970114 948772 :LKoen!~LKoen@191.254.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1616970161 938003 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616970819 699458 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1616971413 686704 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1616971439 857418 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1616972278 714835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`interp c double g = 2.22507e-308L, h = strtod("2.22507e-308", NULL); fprintf(stderr, "%g %g", g, h); perror(" ");
< 1616972280 392727 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.22507e-308 2.22507e-308 : Numerical result out of range
< 1616972366 447195 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that check seems a bit too tight. (Yes, DBL_MIN is a *tad* larger than 2.22507e-308)
< 1616973377 626844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, there is a real loss of precision here, if the intent is to reproduce DBL_MIN.
< 1616973382 832479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably valid, though. C11 7.22.1.3p10: "If the result underflows (7.12.1), the [strtod] function returns a value whose magnitude is no greater than the smallest *normalized* positive number in the return type; whether `errno` acquires the value `ERANGE` is implementation-defined."
< 1616973496 467936 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the fact that denormalized numbers exist makes this deceptive
< 1616973649 589126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the 7.12.1 definition of underflow is: "The result underflows if the magnitude of the mathematical result is so small that the mathematical result cannot be represented, without extraordinary roundoff error, in an object of the specified type. Footnote 232) The term underflow here is intended to encompass both 'gradual underflow' as in IEC 60559 --"
< 1616973911 778583 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1616975578 8794 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric