00:16:09 b_jonas: Or at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRdruqQfRk 00:16:24 Unless the talk is different from the video? 00:16:59 No, looks like the same thing. 00:20:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Hmmm). 00:28:58 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 00:29:50 -!- hendursaga has joined. 00:31:36 Heh, nice to see QSSTV managed to decode that one bit. 00:45:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:46:41 but I recommended that game two months ago, so how was I to know he'd start playing it shortly before the conference deadline => lol 00:51:01 I saw this game on Steam 00:51:13 I marvel at this interconnectedness 00:51:21 shachaf: yeah, I pasted the wrong thing. it's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRdruqQfRk 00:51:31 it looks repetitive 00:51:53 I would rather play Mindustry 00:52:25 okay good morning everyone I’ll go see some dreams 00:52:38 same 00:57:18 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:12:26 nakilon: it has two nice puzzles in it, I recommended it to Tom for the puzzles specifically 01:12:48 the two puzzles are at high levels, the earlier levels have to teach you all the tools that you can use to solve them 01:22:21 -!- ubq323 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3). 02:52:51 what's this about SSTV? 03:00:20 ^ 03:17:40 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:31:08 [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81746&oldid=81743 * Digital Hunter * (+915) /* Example programs */ added a roman numerals program 03:33:18 kmc: The SIGBOVIK e-conference stream had a part where they had a slide up that just said "Is it possible to have images in an audio-only talk? (Please get your slow-scan television decoders ready.)" 03:34:00 Plus two more for the Q&A section. And a tune. 03:34:25 hehe 03:34:34 (Not particularly exciting images, but it's the principle of the thing.) 03:34:40 yes. 03:34:47 what timestamp is that at 03:34:55 Around 01:16:15 in the https://www.twitch.tv/videos/971776826 recording. 03:35:00 I decoded some SSTV images from HAARP once, that was neat 03:35:30 Googling around the topic, I learned they send SSTV images from the ISS sometimes. 03:35:56 [[Encapsulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81747&oldid=74672 * Hakerh400 * (+2586) Add TIO links 03:35:58 yes 03:36:14 I've tried to receive those too, but had pretty poor results 03:36:26 and I'm not sure why, since other people have good results with even a very modest setup 03:36:45 [[Encapsulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81748&oldid=81747 * Hakerh400 * (-2) /* Cat */ 03:37:37 [[Encapsulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81749&oldid=81748 * Hakerh400 * (-8) /* Reverse the sequence */ 03:43:07 I'd like to actually make a contact with SSTV one day 03:44:01 I very rarely see people using it on HF 03:44:08 but I guess there are scheduled SSTV nets that I could try to join 03:44:25 I also don't have a very good HF setup although I've been working on that a little 03:54:55 the particular use of SSTV in the SIGBOVIK reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellschreiber 03:55:58 which is closer to RTTY in application, but closer to SSTV in implementation 03:56:06 and is old as hell and definitely esoteric 04:11:43 cool as hell too 04:12:18 some day im going to do things that are cool and esoteric again 05:46:28 The most recent SIGBOVIK mentions Klondike solitaire cards, and how to make the game impossible. I prefer the Algerian solitaire cards (and other games), though; not Klondike so much. 05:47:10 Do you prefer the Algerian solitaire cards? 05:50:26 I also remember once (was it SIGBOVIK?) they mentioned how to make the longest chess game. 05:55:08 how is that? 05:56:33 How is what one? 06:03:11 One rule of chess is that if neither player can checkmate the other player after any sequence of moves even if the players cooperate to do so, then no more moves are possible and the game ends in a draw. They mentioned that there, but I had also known about it earlier, as it was used in some retro chess problems. 06:03:12 [[User:Largejamie]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81750 * Largejamie * (+143) Created page with "Hello! I'm Jamie Large and I have the very creative username largejamie. Languages I've invented: * [[DFA-er]] * [[PDA-er]] * [[Airline food]]" 06:06:46 fizzie: oh! I was wondering if it was fax or modem noises, I think I didn't pay attention tot he "slow-scan television decoders" thing 06:08:22 so does the sound in the twitch stream actually carry enough information to decode that? 06:09:08 and is this another of those formats that are designed to be transmitted through an analog telephone line, like fax and modems? 06:09:40 I mean telephone line in a way that passes through the telephone exchanges 06:12:52 and does it use compression like fax, or uncompressed like analog television? 06:15:11 apparently it is uncompressed 06:15:23 b_jonas: yes, it contains enough information to decode. I did it with qsstv earlier this evening 06:16:13 I read about slowscan, but I did not write a slowscan decoder in Farbfeld Utilities yet. (Presumably, it would acept the audio stream on stdin, given the format with the command-line arguments.) 06:17:19 b_jonas: SSTV is primarily designed to be transmitted over analog radio links using the same bandwidth as a voice transmission, usually by connecting the encoding/decoding device (these days almost always a computer) to an analog radio using the same mode used for voice (FM or SSB) 06:18:40 it's uncompressed and analog in nature; like fast-scan analog TV it has discrete scanlines, but is continuous in the horizontal dimension and the luma/chroma dimensions 06:22:59 kmc: so not telephone lines. I see. 06:23:04 thanks for the info 06:23:05 noise or interfering signals in the radio channel will appear as static in the image 06:23:42 you could use SSTV over a telephone line 06:23:49 sounds like this was maybe done in the early days of SSTV 06:23:52 > The concept of SSTV was introduced by Copthorne Macdonald[1] in 1957–58.[2] He developed the first SSTV system using an electrostatic monitor and a vidicon tube. It was deemed sufficient to use 120 lines and about 120 pixels per line to transmit a black-and-white still picture within a 3 kHz telephone channel. First live tests were performed on the 11-meter ham band – which was later given to the CB 06:23:54 :1:13: error: :1:13: error: parse error on input ‘of’ 06:23:58 service in the US. In the 1970s, two forms of paper printout receivers were invented by hams. 06:23:59 sounds like it was made for decoding with old equipment, like analog television 06:25:00 yes, the idea dates back to the 60s 06:25:06 was used on old space missions 06:25:13 though in a different form from what hams use today 06:25:34 and encoded too I guess 06:26:11 the bandwidth of a SSB transmission on ham radio is pretty much the same as that of an old school analog voice call 06:26:17 although the noise level will typically be much higher 06:29:00 hams use SSTV now because a) we like old stuff and b) it fits in narrow bandwidth 06:29:44 most of the HF bands have only 50 - 500 kHz of bandwidth, which is shared among all users of that band, potentially worldwide 06:29:51 as for old technology, I'm still amazed by how between 1900 and 1910, people managed to set up working transatlantic telegraphy systems used in production both on radio and on undersea cables, all before they had cathode ray tubes or modern plastics 06:30:06 yeah it's pretty neat 06:31:05 have I mentioned yet why I looked up the history about that? 06:31:06 it's pretty fucking convenient that the earth provides a natural equivalent of bouncing signals off a satellite, in the form of the ionosphere 06:31:28 not an exact equivalent, of course; it's very complicated to do it well 06:31:35 but it's kind of amazing that you can do it at all 06:31:47 that and the Earth manages to shield us from radition 06:31:47 and even more amazing that people got it working at basically the dawn of the modern era 06:31:50 yes 06:32:00 I think these two facts are related 06:32:06 but i'm not too good at geophysics 06:32:07 probably 06:32:33 or...\ 06:32:40 what's even weirder is how little HF radio is used these days 06:32:46 it still gets a fair amount of use but like 06:32:59 maybe the ionosphere is related to the lower frequencies shielding only? I don't know 06:33:24 skywave propagation of HF is this interesting natural phenomenon that was very important for human technology for a period of less than 100 years 06:33:27 and is much less important today 06:33:32 but it still works and it's still fun to do! 06:34:04 it still blows my mind that I can set up a crappy wire antenna in my backyard and exchange text messages with someone in Russia by pumping less than 100 watts of power into that wire 06:34:10 sure, but most of the communication goes on the higher bandwidth channels, I think that's natural 06:34:40 kmc: what distance is that? I don't know how close you are to Russia 06:34:46 I'm in San Francisco 06:34:56 so even the far east part of russia is far 06:34:57 nice 06:35:06 and i've managed to message someone in/near the european part 06:35:16 yeah, modern communication satellites provide way more throughput than all of HF combined, and much more reliably 06:35:37 though at a price 06:36:04 b_jonas: why were you looking up the history of transatlantic telegraphy? 06:36:09 that too, but a lot of data is just sent on long distance cables and then transmitted on higher frequency radio near the two ends 06:36:16 yeah 06:36:38 one interesting niche of renewed interest in HF radio is high frequency (heh) stock trading 06:36:44 where latency is much more important than throughput 06:37:01 kmc: https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/47171973#47171973 06:37:36 I thought they use undersea cables and computers in the middle of the Atlantic for that 06:37:55 but HF might make sense 06:38:24 signals travel much slower in cables than in free space 06:38:25 how do they get permission to use HF for that though? 06:38:49 some kind of commercial radio license from the FCC and whatever other national agencies are involved 06:38:50 kmc: even in optical cables? 06:39:08 yes 06:39:33 ok. because I'm quite sure that trading thing wouldn't fall into amateur radio permissions. 06:39:43 the refractive index of glass is about 1.5 06:40:04 1.4 to 2.2, yes 06:40:04 so light travels 1/3 slower in glass than in air 06:40:18 (air being very close to 1) 06:40:30 of course the skywave path is not direct, it bounces off the ionosphere 06:40:30 and a bit slower because it has to bounce around the cable, right? 06:40:36 but the fiber optic signal does a bunch of bouncing too 06:40:36 yes 06:40:48 and yeah, they aren't doing it on amateur HF bands 06:41:07 there are a bunch of licensed (and some unlicensed) users of HF spectrum besides hams 06:42:16 shortwave broadcasters, aviation, marine weather reports, emergency comms in the australian outback, government, NGOs, military, spies 06:42:56 time signals, ionospheric research 06:43:19 also medical, industrial, and scientific uses that have nothing to do with long distance communication 06:43:27 such as curing the glues within plywood by heating it with RF 06:44:01 there are a few ISM bands within shortwave frequencies for such uses, just as there's a 2.4 GHz band used by microwave ovens and WiFi 06:44:16 i'm told you can hear some of the big chinese plywood factories from across the pacific ocean 06:44:33 he 06:44:55 oh that reminds me another interesting use of HF: over-the-horizon radar 06:46:19 like the Russian Woodpecker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar 06:47:17 which was a massive pain in the ass to everyone as the Russians would transmit very powerful signals on whatever frequencies they felt like 06:47:39 with little to no regard for the internationally recognized users of those frequencies 06:53:14 'That leaves “turn a river in its bed” as the only element of the poem that isn't possible with technology, not only in 1911 but even today, but that one is probably a hyperbole.' <-- I don't think it's hyperbole, just an idiomatic / poetic way of describing redirecting a river through earthworks 06:54:22 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 06:55:19 perhaps 06:55:30 'And “You shall see and hear your cracking question hurled” because it's a stupid spark gap radio, because the reasonable kind of amplitude modulated radio telegraph transmissions were invented but not in general use yet in 1911.' 06:56:26 kmc: I did later find that there was an intermediate technology between spark gap and vacuum tube 06:56:27 spark gaps were replaced with continuous wave long before amplitude modulation became practical 06:56:41 probably thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_alternator ? 06:57:15 let me check, I know where I read about this 06:57:43 there's one in the world that still transmits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_Day 07:00:14 "https://www.navalgazing.net/Signalling-Part-2" says "Poulsen arc", which seems different 07:00:48 huh, interesting 07:01:14 I haven't heard about that 07:01:16 thanks for the link 07:07:37 as for new technology, I find modern power supplies impossible. it looks like you shouldn't be able to transform voltage in such tiny packages made of mostly capacitors and be more efficient than the best traditional power supplies. 07:08:33 makes me wonder what magic that I thought would be impossible we'd get ubiquitious in everyday life in the next decade 07:09:02 might be better batteries 07:09:16 it's big business so a lot of people are working on it 07:09:51 yeah 07:10:21 could be improved nuclear power generation too 07:10:54 and I mean improved compared to molten salt generators, not improved compared to the forty year old ones that we still use 07:11:49 I guess even more plastics with nice properties are pretty likely 07:13:09 something to replace rubber with something that doesn't start drying and cracking after a few years would be nice 07:13:52 it's not surprising that switch mode supplies can beat for efficiency a traditional supply of transformer + linear regulator, because a linear regulator works by requiring the unregulated input voltage to always be a bit higher than the desired regulated output, and burning off the excess as heat 07:13:55 or better packing padding material than styrofoam 07:14:18 lots of people are working on making packaging material out of mycelium 07:14:24 i think ikea started shipping some of their products that way 07:14:30 kmc: but the regulators weren't linear, they already had diodes or transistors when I was young 07:14:46 a linear regulator uses transistors 07:14:57 kmc: and also of cardboard, which seems to work well in many packaging 07:15:14 kmc: why is it called linear then? 07:15:18 in what sense is it linear? 07:15:42 it acts like a linear amplifier 07:16:10 it uses the transistor in its linear regime, where changes in the output voltage are proportional to changes in the input voltage 07:16:44 does it? I thought you can't do that to make direct current 07:16:57 it has to use nonlinearity to make direct current from alternating current 07:17:05 and make it nice and smooth 07:17:13 you're mixing up several things here 07:17:30 you can turn AC into DC with just diodes 07:17:38 yes, those are nonlinear elements 07:17:38 yes, nonlinear diodes 07:17:55 but they don't give you a regulated voltage either 07:18:10 yes, so there are additional elements, including capacitors 07:18:34 right 07:19:09 but that's still only giving you some chosen fraction of the input voltage 07:19:19 not some arbitrary fixed voltage that is independent of the input 07:19:27 that's what a voltage regulator does 07:19:48 I see 07:19:57 e.g. the 7805 regulator always outputs 5 volts no matter the input (within some range of course) 07:20:03 and it's a linear, not switch mode device 07:20:30 it wastes power equivalent to (input voltage - output voltage) * current 07:20:55 burning off the excess 07:20:58 yes 07:21:57 ok, but what makes old power supplies waste power when no power is drawn off them then? 07:22:24 hmm 07:23:29 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:24:22 well an even crappier and simpler linear regulator (shunt regulator) will do that 07:25:32 otherwise i don't know 07:25:48 but i should go to bed now 07:25:50 good night 07:27:08 mind you, wasting much less power isn't the only way the new power supplies are impossible 07:27:11 they're also smaller 07:27:24 I could expect the logic part of computers get smaller, and the memories 07:27:34 but the power supply is one that I'd have predicted needs size 07:27:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:28:20 that relates to the frequency used for switching 07:28:54 inductors / transformers that transmit useful amounts of power at 50/60 Hz are much larger than ones that transmit the same amount of power at dozens to hundreds of kHz 07:29:31 oh yeah, in impossible things I hope they'll invent, better superconductors would be nice too 07:29:32 with simple components you have to reduce the frequency before rectifying it 07:29:44 er, reduce the voltage 07:30:04 in a switching power supply you can rectify the mains voltage and then switch that to regulate it down to the desired voltage 07:30:14 in a sense going AC -> DC -> AC -> DC 07:30:28 it is kind of funny that this ends up being more efficient 07:30:45 ok, going to sleep for real now :) 07:30:46 ttyl 07:30:57 bye 07:34:03 oh yeah, some people predict that the new RNA vaccine technology developed for this pandemic will allow to make good vaccines for much more viral infections for which we don't have a vaccine yet 07:34:13 so if that indeed works out, that might be another one 08:06:36 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:42 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:09:04 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:09:33 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:25:42 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:13:53 -!- Remavas has joined. 09:16:40 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:01:15 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1). 10:01:29 -!- Melvar has joined. 10:36:12 -!- s0kx has left ("WeeChat 2.8"). 10:45:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:02:18 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:02:42 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 11:30:10 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * A esolang user * New user account 12:18:26 -!- arseniiv has joined. 12:37:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:00:16 Hah! One of my former coauthors is cited in one of the SIGBOVIK papers. 13:00:58 (Specifically, citation [4] of Universal Insights with Multi-layered Embeddings.) 13:20:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:25:40 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:25:59 -!- moony has joined. 13:38:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:49:11 fizzie what are you coauthor of? 14:14:16 Hmm, Recursed is still hard. 14:17:19 (Yes I know it's been shown to be Turing-hard) 14:30:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:30:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:32:40 I've been involved in 5 or so more or less (leaning towards "more") uninteresting papers together with Jort Gemmeke (and others) around "conventional" (read: pre-DNN-revolution) noise-robust speech recognition. 14:46:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 14:51:59 why uninteresting? 14:55:38 -!- delta23 has joined. 15:10:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 15:36:46 -!- sprock has joined. 15:37:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:46:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:49:04 [[Pyramid Scheme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81751&oldid=76346 * B jonas * (+194) /* External resources */ 16:02:53 pyramid scheme is a funny idea 16:57:44 -!- dingwat has joined. 17:10:28 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81752&oldid=81719 * A esolang user * (+274) 17:24:08 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 17:24:25 -!- hendursaga has joined. 18:11:04 -!- TheLie has joined. 18:33:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:35:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:35:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:40:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:41:41 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to sassafras. 18:42:07 -!- sassafras has changed nick to copumpkin. 19:02:48 [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81753&oldid=81746 * Digital Hunter * (+321) /* Example programs */ added a kolakoski sequence program 19:07:49 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:27 -!- tromp has joined. 19:23:03 -!- TheLie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:18 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:31:33 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:44:16 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:44:29 -!- ArthurStrong has joined. 19:45:59 -!- tromp has joined. 19:47:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:47:18 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 20:03:05 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:01 @tell nakilon I was away and didn’t notice what you messaged me sorry 20:43:02 Consider it noted. 20:43:15 arseniiv no! 20:43:18 *np 20:43:25 oops you’re online 20:44:26 doesn't freenode have memoserv? 20:44:39 yes it has 20:44:52 oh, how does it work? 20:44:58 /memoserv help 20:47:21 a bit unconventional it doesn’t use private messages 20:48:19 so in result it spams the window of the currently active channel, hm 20:48:19 i suppose PRIVMSG is for human-to-human 20:48:46 depends on your client, I guess some have a preference to show NOTICEs only in a server tab 20:49:07 hm maybe I misconfigured something 20:49:09 I actually like when things don't make you switch tabs 20:49:31 the stupid Lounge that I use opens the /whois results in a query window 20:53:13 I feel like nobody ever actually uses MemoServ. 20:53:19 (On freenode, anyway.) 20:56:17 -!- tromp has joined. 20:59:39 i've never used it 20:59:43 someone should send me a memo! 21:01:13 finally I set up coloring for this thing 21:01:49 at least if it won’t flash and notify it will be discernible when scrolling the chat 21:01:55 ty arseniiv 21:02:28 this is fun :D 21:02:52 @tell lambdabot You're being usurped. 21:02:52 Nice try ;) 21:03:54 hm will lambdabot read a MemoServ’s message?.. 21:04:33 I doubt 21:04:57 at least it’s robust against unknown message types 21:05:03 @eval 2 + 81 21:05:10 or is it 21:05:39 @run 2 + 81 -- eval is not the thing 21:05:41 83 21:06:29 fizzie: I have used memoserv 21:08:25 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:09:58 -!- tromp has joined. 21:11:00 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:27 -!- tromp has joined. 21:13:25 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:13:58 -!- tromp has joined. 21:18:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:19:43 -!- tromp has joined. 21:48:03 -!- ArthurStrong has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:52:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:30:12 [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81754&oldid=81753 * Digital Hunter * (-66) /* Commands and keywords */ reverted my "important clarification to "succeed""