< 1617408123 581333 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.124.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1617408648 884300 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1617408894 846226 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric > 1617412565 716006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81755&oldid=81754 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+241) 10/* Example programs */ added a thue-morse sequence program < 1617412762 411636 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 JOIN :#esoteric > 1617412810 173558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81756&oldid=81755 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+9) 10/* Commands and keywords */ better important clarification to "succeed" > 1617413492 746488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Not applicable/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81757&oldid=81712 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+2237) 10add Z-Machine clone < 1617417860 617749 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some things that occur at regular or nearly regular intervals, are unpredictable, and once they have occurred can easily be verified by anyone in the world and will be recorded for verification in the future too? I had idea involving such things using as a random number seed. < 1617421364 277504 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question zzo38. Reddit posts? < 1617422039 488300 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :blockchain blocks < 1617422142 754729 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some bitcoin lotteries which work this way, you can place bets regarding bits of the hash of the next block accepted after some specified time < 1617422183 733394 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way you can verify that the lottery administrators are not rigging the RNG < 1617422203 522037 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since bets are made publicly, by sending bitcoins to their address, you can also verify that everyone in the past who bet and won has been paid < 1617422252 300735 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course at any time they could still decide to cheat everyone and pocket the money for the next round but it would be clear to everyone that they had done so, and people would stop playing their lottery < 1617422347 999756 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think with ethereum or other smart contract coins you could do one better, make a lottery that is collectively administered by the consensus of the network, so as long as a majority of nodes interpret contracts faithfully then the people who placed winning bets will get paid, there is no central entity that can decide to stiff them < 1617422378 590450 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think smart contracts have somewhat limited utility compared to the hype but there are some tidy and self contained things you can do with them < 1617422510 712877 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I do want random numbers that are verifiable to not have been rigged by a third party, even later. They can be useful for experiments, like when I want to prove a statistical statement that has a too large domain, so I can't measure every possibility, I have to take a sample, but I want to prove that I haven't picked my sample in a biased way to support my statement. I don't see why they'd be < 1617422516 682034 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful for *lotteries* though. Do the kind of people who rigorously verify that the company really gets the numbers from blockchain actually buy lottery tickets? < 1617422568 336701 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely people who are interested in online gambling who are tech savvy enough to verify such things < 1617422576 198449 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not lotteries but more interesting games? < 1617422602 830382 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the old days of numbers rackets run by the mafia they would use the last digits of the closing price of the Dow Jones Industrial Average or whatever as the RNG < 1617422610 108598 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :because anyone can verify that by picking up a newspaper < 1617422629 251655 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mob bets on the low bits of the dow and wall street bets on the high bits ;P < 1617422695 616612 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: like poker? perhaps. < 1617422709 418054 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the idea of picking random numbers in a way that proves you have nothing up your sleeve is also used in non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs < 1617422750 26026 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, zero-knowledge or at least reduced knowledge is possible too < 1617422750 173809 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :a traditional ZKP is an interactive protocol where you pose challenge questions and receive answers < 1617422778 807743 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the other party is able to answer enough questions properly then you can be reasonably confident they have whatever knowledge they don't want to reveal directly < 1617422803 18540 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a non interactive form they pose the questions to themselves, but have to prove that they picked them randomly < 1617422814 110854 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1617422835 406659 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way another interesting and self contained use case for smart contracts is posting bounties for forged cryptographic certificates < 1617422836 914222 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the non-interactive thing still applies if the proof isn't zero-knowledge < 1617422846 122478 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :versus interactive < 1617422889 796222 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I own some domain I can write a smart contract which pays out to anyone who can present a TLS certificate for that domain, that is signed by , and is not one of the legitimate certs mentioned in the contract < 1617422910 622795 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that can be encoded in a smart contract without reference to any external judge or data source < 1617422931 477477 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the person who is perhaps expending resources or taking risks to claim the bounty knows that they will be paid on completion < 1617424425 252658 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you verify bitcoin hashes if you do not have bitcoin? How often is Dow Jones average updated? Is it only on business days, or every day? Are there other things? Does bitcoin have timestamps? < 1617424464 357371 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I would think that bitcoin presumably would require too many blocks to verify it properly? < 1617424533 521860 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually reddit posts can be verified easily by just going on the site using their api < 1617424548 266131 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the problem with bitcoin was that you can influence it. not deterministically, but bias it by a small amount, in case you manage to mine the block that is referenced. < 1617424580 107147 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, that's still a small enough bias that you can account for it in calculating bounds and do most things that require a random sample and a statistical proof < 1617424858 922430 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a lot about how it works, but yes I suppose that makes sense. Although, even if it is Reddit you can post your own messages too if you have an account. < 1617424892 197910 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently irssi and w3m use the boehm garbage collector < 1617424946 454174 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reddit has a message stream so you simply take random messages and put them in your generator. To verify use the link. No account needed i think. You can use the byte representation of the values < 1617425115 106823 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally something that does not require an internet connection would also help, I suppose. < 1617425181 465204 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then i guess some sensor/adapter that captures a real world value would be acquired. That's what random.org has < 1617425290 647262 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sirlin's Codex card game is designed that you do not need to do anything on your opponent's turn; you do stuff only on your own turn. With the system that I have thought of, the game rules need no modification, although some of the card effects will not work. < 1617425337 491034 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another source of random numbers that occurs regularly is weather < 1617425341 979646 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, the ones that allow you to draw cards during your own turn won't work, and the ones that allow you to look at opponent's cards will not work; you can only draw cards during opponent's turn. < 1617425354 767066 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the weather is predictable. < 1617425420 670726 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (would we get better weather reports if predicting the *exact* temperature and rainfall was linked to a substantial monetrary prize?) < 1617425467 830812 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the built in rng < 1617425471 442591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe then would they use the money to build better equipment for predicting the weather (if such a thing is possible)? < 1617425477 834647 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :urandom is pretty good < 1617425559 740905 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and if you want to generate random numbers locally, for your own use, that works. < 1617425561 62254 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :urandom or random.org does not solve the problem of distributed consensus about the randomly generated value < 1617425596 748429 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to trust that whoever is publishing the result really chose it randomly < 1617425601 973619 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, distributed consensus about the randomly generated value is what I am asking about, and urandom isn't that. < 1617425608 144080 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, what is the interval of Dow Jones? < 1617425621 325273 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the closing price is published once a day, on days when the market is open < 1617425647 474395 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is most weekdays, although the holiday schedule is not exactly the same as US Federal holidays or whatever) < 1617425668 815522 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1617425669 74433 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.nyse.com/markets/hours-calendars < 1617425682 554258 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining prices intraday is a little trickier < 1617425703 512823 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are in reality many different venues in which you can trade the same set of stocks < 1617425714 253856 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the price of the last executed trade may be different on each < 1617425739 378319 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some attempt to regulate the existence of a 'national market system' with a coherent idea of last trade price, but it's complicated < 1617425755 305988 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, stock prices are not random, and can be predicted and manipulated to some degree < 1617425903 143648 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not really distributed consensus, it's centralized consensus published by a centralized organization (NYSE) that is deemed to have little to no interest in manipulating the mafia's illegal lotteries < 1617425903 641455 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they probably can be predicted and manipulated to some degree, although I don't know what degree. (Although, there is lso some degree for the other things mentioned, too.) < 1617425913 609844 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they have a much bigger and legal lottery to run ;) < 1617425939 786715 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there stars or other stuff in space that is suitable at all? < 1617425941 486394 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :an issue with using the weather is that you have to trust whoever publishes the data < 1617425968 639875 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it's hard to actually manipulate the weather, it's easy to manipulate the records of the weather < 1617425979 838693 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The positions of planets and stuff can easily be predicted, but I don't know if there is stuff that isn't < 1617425985 252680 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't prove after the fact that it was really 30° instead of 29° at some location at some time < 1617425995 521882 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting idea zzo38 < 1617426018 766538 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although if it is local weather, you can at least check at the time that it is wrong. That won't help for weather in other places though < 1617426036 889363 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on the precision used < 1617426051 284986 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't expect the temperature just outside my house to always be exactly the same to the degree as the weather station some miles away < 1617426071 83450 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, I suppose you are right about that < 1617426094 685021 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is lots of radiation coming from space that is random in arrival time, but also very localized, so it's not suitable < 1617426106 390720 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the arrival times of cosmic radiation as a good local RNG but you can't build distributed consensus from that < 1617426179 680343 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone will get different random numbers (which is of course desirable for a local RNG) < 1617426551 787738 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1617432077 836246 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1617433202 177076 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1617436061 234514 :dincio!~dincio@62.19.207.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1617437246 722198 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1617437373 776383 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1617437935 326509 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1617438987 148039 :dincio!~dincio@62.19.207.211 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1 < 1617445857 571963 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how old were your children when you let them use an angle grinder? < 1617445857 822732 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: called a guy who's at the job with me, so why memorize it now?) ircnomic < 1617445931 24766 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johnny Шrcnomic < 1617445935 362014 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johnny Ircnomic < 1617446076 883794 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1617446078 911514 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is grammaphobic. < 1617446087 378281 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's last month's password. what's this month's? < 1617446406 912772 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :` date < 1617446408 788377 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? Permission denied < 1617446432 229720 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :` date please < 1617446433 6953 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? Permission denied < 1617446498 939462 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sudo date < 1617446499 574853 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo: effective uid is not 0, is /usr/bin/sudo on a file system with the 'nosuid' option set or an NFS file system without root privileges? < 1617446529 689982 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`date < 1617446530 680819 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`datei < 1617446530 788681 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sat Apr 3 10:42:10 UTC 2021 < 1617446531 521151 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2021-04-03 10:42:10.992 +0000 UTC April 3 Saturday 2021-W13-6 < 1617447947 189054 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.124.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1617448262 739079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep /usr /proc/mounts < 1617448263 714112 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :none /usr hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/ 0 0 < 1617450103 946184 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@128-124-149-87.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1617452700 431107 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a language that demands you to write not [1,2,3] but [1,2,3,] ? < 1617452768 300623 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nakilon: yes, but many of the old ones have since been fixed up to accept the latter too < 1617452845 607097 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one related interesting thing is that [7,,9] has a different meaning in perl and in javascript: in perl it's the same as [7,9]; but in javascript there's a missing slot between the 7 and the 9 in the aray < 1617453036 861744 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would allow only the latter < 1617453071 135282 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose we put comma only in between because historically we were writing word sentences before arrays < 1617453083 226122 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there we write: cat, dog, monkey. < 1617453112 772131 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the "." looks almost like "," and so has two roles at the same time -- pointing that it's the end and pointing that before it there is the last element < 1617453139 249263 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :while in the arrays syntax the end symbol isn't "." but some bracket < 1617453198 308372 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "1, 2, 3." array syntax would be ok too < 1617453270 96740 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not ok < 1617453293 62285 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ok if there is some autoreplace system in the IDE < 1617453333 743018 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that when I select the last element and the dot and press the "dup" shortcut it dups it replacing the "." with "," in the left copy < 1617453387 707285 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagine in code I have a literal like this < 1617453390 346223 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, < 1617453391 218407 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2, < 1617453392 395662 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. < 1617453403 634632 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I select the third line, press dup shortcut and get < 1617453405 139513 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, < 1617453406 872466 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2, < 1617453408 300849 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, < 1617453410 423162 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. < 1617455202 179382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least one language (Go) that demands you write "{\n1,\n2,\n3,\n}" instead of "{\n1,\n2,\n3\n}" -- as in, it requires the comma at an end of each item if it's a comma-separated list (composite literal, function call) that's been split to multiple lines; https://play.golang.org/p/9dx0hNz5I36 is a syntax error. > 1617455422 270532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07202014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81758&oldid=81718 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+17) 10 < 1617455577 609097 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool > 1617456411 534744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81759&oldid=71495 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+783) 10Add another "better" Generator > 1617456502 130662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SPAM/114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81760&oldid=38799 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10/* Syntax */ Make all spaces show < 1617459392 515400 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.3.93.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1617459478 267923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.4.124.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1617465282 762101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* 10New user account < 1617465327 345394 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee JOIN :#esoteric < 1617465396 178658 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric > 1617465880 534554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81761&oldid=81752 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+323) 10 < 1617466149 776550 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.148 JOIN :#esoteric > 1617467081 222690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81762 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+311) 10Created page with "'''Deskileq''' (Decrement and skip next line if less than or equal to zero) is an OISC esoteric language designed to use only 1 Argument. It uses a memory address which it dec..." > 1617467229 183364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81763&oldid=81762 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+73) 10 > 1617467436 137696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81764&oldid=81763 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+12) 10 < 1617467474 840576 :arcsor5!~arcsor5@45.144.113.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1617467767 75980 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@128-124-149-87.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1617467799 557593 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81765&oldid=81764 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+14) 10 > 1617467928 363804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81766&oldid=81765 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+55) 10 > 1617468049 698646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81767&oldid=81766 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+77) 10 > 1617468096 327920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81768&oldid=81767 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+9) 10 > 1617468291 852773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81769&oldid=81768 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (-99) 10 < 1617468380 875141 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1617469543 761104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81770&oldid=81769 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+3) 10 < 1617469555 604936 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the simpliest regex to cut possible space substrings on both sides of the string? < 1617469577 966656 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1617469578 150100 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :" s s s " => "s" < 1617469594 440719 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :" s " => "s" < 1617469596 472889 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\s+ < 1617469598 130136 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1617469602 636347 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :" s", "s " => "s" < 1617469627 130844 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know in most BASIC dialects LTRIM$ and RTRIM$ do just that, maybe there's an equivalent to that for whatever language you < 1617469627 925608 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, => "s s s" -- fix for my 1st example < 1617469631 265384 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re using? < 1617469638 217119 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want trimming < 1617469645 11853 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, trim spaces < 1617469671 651379 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^\s*(\S*)\s*$/\1/ < 1617469685 335494 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1617469700 894427 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you match only one word < 1617469707 537493 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are right < 1617469723 839140 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be .*, but that would be slow as hell possibly < 1617469733 803695 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't use regex for that, tbh < 1617469759 184757 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if i want to, i'd replace ^\s* and \s*$ with the empty string > 1617469788 418126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81771&oldid=81770 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+29) 10 < 1617469803 279285 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, two regexes will be ok for me I guess > 1617469805 468149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81772&oldid=81771 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (-29) 10 < 1617469806 373909 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanted one < 1617469827 744454 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to do that with regexes anyways? < 1617469856 664972 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you afraid of regexes? < 1617469860 607882 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1617469869 492547 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am lol < 1617469870 687608 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think they are the right tool for that < 1617469875 11045 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love regexes < 1617469919 401673 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you prefer 10 pages of nested loops instead of this? https://i.imgur.com/DilytEt.png < 1617469965 878541 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but that's not at all comparable < 1617469999 303290 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexes are nice as long as you can clearly define what to match at each point < 1617470014 606443 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as a naked . comes into play, it can go downhill quite quickly < 1617470070 547369 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this works /\A *(.*?) *\z/ < 1617470156 724325 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.codinghorror.com/regex-performance/ < 1617470221 781669 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fighting windmills? < 1617470229 441383 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1617470247 726954 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ever wrote a programs that has more than 100 string matching procedures? < 1617470253 789958 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying, that your other regexes are guaranteed to behave nicely, since none of them contains a . < 1617470297 72762 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as soon as you have a .* in it, parsing times can go wild < 1617470310 176512 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, imaginary windmills < 1617470319 649840 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that imaginary? < 1617470335 515974 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are no windmills in my 20 megabytes of text < 1617470335 740451 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a real problem, go try it out for yourself < 1617470351 461905 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried it 100 times today < 1617470405 85787 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is really no reason to prefer the single regex for trimming both ends over one for each left and right trimming < 1617470444 243553 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a clear reason to prefer one over two since one will work < 1617470468 971229 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two will also work, so that's a pretty bad reason < 1617470498 101747 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, you aren't afraid of regex, you are afraid of logic < 1617470506 992923 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is "my code can be shitty since my input is nice", since people train themself this way and sometimes projects tend to gain way more traction than initially thought < 1617470515 969119 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1617470525 734865 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is /\A *(.*?) *\z/ shitty? < 1617470534 54517 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are again fihgting with some imaginary windmills < 1617470536 954266 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling them shitty < 1617470540 85635 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if both work, how is "the one i chose works" a reason to prefer it? < 1617470550 403571 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is better than two < 1617470555 677600 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1617470573 36630 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :come back when you are sober < 1617470574 699078 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignored < 1617470587 972330 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be a tad faster in ruby since it cannot easily compile those into DFAs beforehand < 1617470592 285259 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sober < 1617470612 833425 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these windmill fighters < 1617470631 922552 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with their own imaginary shitty code they imaginge in your code < 1617470633 670483 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with windmill fighting, it's a point of style and efficiency > 1617470634 602012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81773&oldid=81772 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+82) 10 < 1617470648 168690 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and imaginary coworkers on imaginary projects > 1617470672 145060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81774&oldid=81773 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (+8) 10 < 1617470674 202422 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to waste someone's time on pointless debates < 1617470680 962034 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to get things done < 1617470696 352554 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the guy that needs to ask for like the most basic pcre > 1617470700 217639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deskileq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81775&oldid=81774 5* 03Leothetechguy 5* (-8) 10 < 1617470714 72837 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am getting things done fairly well, thank you < 1617470760 50706 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these "aaahhh! I saw a blogpost in some hype blog! now I can't sleep, I see bad dreams about slow regexes and will annoy other people with it too" < 1617470800 907261 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read many more than that, it was just like the first google result to give you as an entry < 1617470810 428223 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why not just use .strip()? < 1617470820 815845 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just say "I suck in regexes" if he does not know the answer to my question < 1617470839 354416 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realize i provided you with your answer, do you? < 1617470860 252889 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not thinking about multiple words in a string < 1617470861 84568 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.strip() is most likely more efficient and way more readable < 1617470867 411416 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not thinking about multiline string < 1617470879 811162 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i corrected that like seconds later < 1617470900 428935 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your experience in a subject is this low why do you debate?... rhetorical question < 1617470900 754779 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1617470923 653715 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience is far from being low, thank you < 1617470953 238150 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your experience in ruby is so low that you aren't even aware of strip, why do you use ruby? rhetorical question < 1617470988 941479 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, so much anger over what could be a healthy intellectual debate weighing the pros and cons of regexes and other approaches to stripping whitespace. < 1617471048 937733 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex is almost always the worst option to trimming. at best, it just compiles down to a dfa that does the exact same thing that strip() will probably do, that is just loop over the string char by char and kick out spaces < 1617471100 799657 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got annoyed because there were no practical arguments, only some imaginary windmills with imaginary data, imaginary regexes, imaginary projects and coworkers, nothing close to the real project I'm working on < 1617471149 311988 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that more than "this doesn't apply to me"? which is a garbage argument to make if the better solution is shorter and more readable < 1617471180 695572 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unrelated note, does anybody know if GitHub Pages support "including" HTML files into other HTML files? < 1617471247 877988 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we don't know you may ask in ##github < 1617471250 547925 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you could do iframes? < 1617471297 296134 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee PRIVMSG #esoteric :No like i could have a header HTML file for the top part of the site, and another one for the bottom. < 1617471326 354398 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with iframes for that? < 1617471344 590065 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use iframes < 1617471452 443585 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@2600:1702:3680:7560:d88a:212:fdd6:bbee PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try that < 1617471504 103139 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that github will do server side processing for github pages < 1617471581 92424 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also some another html tag but it's probably not recommended nowadays < 1617471628 345230 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there are 3-ish tags for that and you _could_ use js to modify the dom, but that's most likely not worth it < 1617471677 665050 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here are some