> 1622678565 211198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83877&oldid=83825 5* 03ResU 5* (+49) 10 > 1622680522 478019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth Machine (language)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83878&oldid=83875 5* 03ResU 5* (+133) 10 > 1622680729 297168 PRIVMSG #esoteric : resizing glitches you say... https://files.gitter.im/5773fad8c2f0db084a20979b/YUho/image.png > 1622681478 231920 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not that I remember, no. But any sort of confusion/bug in the init could presumably do it. The timeout isn't external, as I recall, but handled with signals in init. > 1622681622 788756 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though the only problems with init and its configuration that I remember are the ubd padding issues, which have been sorted all the way back in ceb910f. > 1622681847 660804 PRIVMSG #esoteric : damn clever thing the guy made https://github.com/kojix2/YouPlot > 1622681883 551576 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been using the unicode_plot library for a while, but he made a gem with ./bin making all sorts of STDIN parsers he would want to > 1622681917 483892 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you don't need to write ruby code to use unicode_plot lib now > 1622682026 301195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Clpb 5* 10New user account > 1622682058 728042 PRIVMSG #esoteric : he could ask to add the binary to unicode_plot gem but it would need him to make test, debate on style and the unicode_plot's maintainer idea to have API "same as in julia" for idk why > 1622682078 349932 PRIVMSG #esoteric : instead he's making the binary independently > 1622682178 132578 PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw I don't like that the common directly and name for these is ./bin because they are not necessary binary files -- would be better to have them in ./exe I guess but I didn't see such standard > 1622682407 767079 PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's what "bin" means: executables. > 1622682536 183021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83879&oldid=83841 5* 03Clpb 5* (+161) 10Just added a short text about me so I can use the rest of the wiki > 1622682665 996953 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://0x0.st/-_-p.txt <- a lot of non-"binary" files too. Also, a great filename, got lucky there. > 1622682792 890856 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what does that sed do? > 1622682826 485280 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just an ad-hoc filter to get rid of all the boring cruft in "..., dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, BuildID[sha1]=d146dbe9a8ea08382b6c63ee7d0ebeb151f2ced3, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, stripped". > 1622682844 105074 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Especially the BuildID, of course. > 1622682868 564222 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm, for some files the file prints me too much > 1622682895 724624 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probably a slightly different output format then. I just picked something that worked for me. > 1622682896 276572 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://dpaste.org/RjJc/slim > 1622682918 120325 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess this file just has three versions in it > 1622682936 51076 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, don't have to worry about "fat" binaries on this system. > 1622682937 583331 PRIVMSG #esoteric : damn I thought this thing is gone when macOS removed the power9 support > 1622683018 694370 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In retrospect, `file --mime-type --brief` would've been an easier way to sanitize: https://0x0.st/-_-f.txt > 1622683071 845089 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Besides, aren't you going to start getting all these x86-64/AArch64 multi-binaries next?) > 1622683184 139509 PRIVMSG #esoteric : man, they really screwed up by not calling the 64-bit arm architecture "leg" > 1622683188 136006 PRIVMSG #esoteric : cd yeah I may confuse them -- didn't work with them either > 1622683209 848169 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think "leg" was being used for something though? > 1622683294 282933 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not exactly easy to search for with everyone writing these "cost you an ARM and a leg" pun titles. > 1622683372 92823 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe there wasn't anything, or at least anything too relevant, and I just imagined it. > 1622683476 404697 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, right, I think I'm thinking of that LLVM toy example that was just like an ARM subset, https://llvm.org/devmtg/2014-10/Slides/Cormack-BuildingAnLLVMBackend.pdf > 1622683511 403268 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://github.com/frasercrmck/llvm-leg > 1622683536 859523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doesn't exactly fit the "a bigger ARM" context though. > 1622683559 865136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : StrongARM was an actual thing though. > 1622683634 880497 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and "thumb" of course > 1622683655 169068 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Something something middle finger pun. < 1622683830 356427 :LdDIyJhJowY!~LdDIyJhJo@139.135.60.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1622683830 508608 :LdDIyJhJowY!~LdDIyJhJo@139.135.60.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is exaActly the siutuationq DXisEcFIerreit hasG found itselfq ins.t Wge HwerRe bridginYg ltoZ guarkantee a smooyth transition..d.C wigthiEn hGoursP ofr cShkangDinng the topicr tQo point Sto the neOwR chat, theyg toPok Dover oXur channekls.j < 1622683830 508727 :LdDIyJhJowY!~LdDIyJhJo@139.135.60.47 PART :#esoteric > 1622683870 692301 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heh, been a while since the last piece of forwarded spam. > 1622683903 484990 PRIVMSG #esoteric : lol > 1622683906 669735 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wut in tarnation > 1622683921 751869 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clearly a bad siutuationq. > 1622684039 119374 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ACTION scratches her head > 1622684071 774163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Looks like SCP-3125. > 1622684105 939524 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can get something intelligible out of all the other words by only deleting letters, with the exception of "DXisEcFIerreit". < 1622684128 162395 :xKkPIopn!~xKkPIopn@mx-ll-223.206.128-11.dynamic.3bb.co.th JOIN :#esoteric < 1622684128 271925 :xKkPIopn!~xKkPIopn@mx-ll-223.206.128-11.dynamic.3bb.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew ULee likeKs wsuckingF hot asiarn Zguy's diAcks and has haH jcchkode hiumeseDlf. < 1622684128 272089 :xKkPIopn!~xKkPIopn@mx-ll-223.206.128-11.dynamic.3bb.co.th PART :#esoteric > 1622684159 51829 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm. < 1622684172 220791 :KMNhVsyh!~KMNhVsyh@179.157.6.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1622684172 220851 :KMNhVsyh!~KMNhVsyh@179.157.6.66 PART :#esoteric > 1622684194 652413 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Feel free to do "brctl: ignore freenode/*" if you want to stop that from doing anything in that direction. < 1622684271 309685 :QJumDgxQzK!~QJumDgxQz@cpe-98-149-32-141.natmtn.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1622684271 309759 :QJumDgxQzK!~QJumDgxQz@cpe-98-149-32-141.natmtn.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric > 1622684293 100203 PRIVMSG #esoteric : As for "DXisEcFIerreit", maybe that's "Disc..." something. "DiscFerret"? netsplit.de says #discferret was a channel over on the other network. > 1622684333 359604 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 /usr/bin/ex (for architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64 > 1622684333 553006 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 /usr/bin/ex (for architecture arm64e): Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64e > 1622684339 754746 PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e: Ah. > 1622684353 616320 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is how arm looks like > 1622684498 588248 PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's been two other similarly jumbled-up nicknames joining and subsequently parting, but they've not said anything. > 1622684519 110332 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I might +q $~a over on the other side maybe. > 1622684527 62381 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hard to say if it's likely to get any worse or not. > 1622684696 139140 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://dpaste.org/fCzA/slim > 1622684972 798785 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you have 10 times more ruby executables than I do lol > 1622685036 462642 PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe they are hidden by rbenv shims > 1622687352 135786 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot are you going to update your esoteric language? > 1622687352 432125 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: but, we are far outnumbered! that frog made the epoch, your wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! > 1622687397 928059 PRIVMSG #esoteric : positive ending > 1622694768 952257 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ⧸!\ TΗIᏚ СНᎪNNᎬᒪ ΗAS ϺOVЕᎠ TO IᎡC․LIBΕᎡA．CHAΤ ＃HAΜᖇADІO ／︕⧵ > 1622694769 776257 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /！\ THE JΕWS ᕼΑVЕ TAKEΝ OᏙЕR FᖇEᎬNODΕ, CHATS HАVE MОᏙΕᎠ ТO ⅠRⲤ․ᒪІВЕᎡA.CᕼAT ⧸！\ > 1622694770 829393 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /!﹨ JOIⲚ ＃НᎪΜRADΙO TODΑY. TΗІS CዘАΝNΕⅬ ᕼAS ΜⲞVED ΤO IᎡС．LΙBΕᎡA．ᏟᎻΑT ＃HᎪMRΑDΙО /！\ > 1622694775 289045 PRIVMSG #esoteric : TዘΙЅ OFFIᏟІᎪLᏞⲨ EⲚᗪORSEⅮ MΕSSAᏀᎬ ᎳᎪS ⲂᖇⲞUԌΗТ ᎢO YⲞU BY ᏞIBEᖇᎪ․ϹᕼAᎢ STAᖴᖴ > 1622694789 210372 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh ffs > 1622694828 223420 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ∕!\ TⲎΙЅ CHΑNNΕL ΗAS ϺОVEᗪ ᎢO IRC．LΙBEᏒA.CHAΤ ＃HAᎷᎡΑDΙO /!⧹ > 1622695513 602444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83880&oldid=83869 5* 03Bangyen 5* (+103) 10 > 1622695526 542396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83881&oldid=83880 5* 03Bangyen 5* (-2) 10 > 1622696184 99510 PRIVMSG #esoteric : just noticed, Chrome added features to "autodelete cookies after you close specific website" and "fully disallow cookies on specific websites [including third-party cookies]" > 1622696211 612873 PRIVMSG #esoteric : added FB and IG there instantly > 1622698177 38194 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In C, can I prevent global variables that I am not using from taking up memory? > 1622698212 419991 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the linker should remove unused stuff > 1622698218 962 PRIVMSG #esoteric : not sure if that requries -fdata-sections > 1622698219 237879 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (without dynamic allocation) > 1622698245 85222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83882 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+4173) 10document lofty goals for a fungeoid playing with dimensionality > 1622698245 346922 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: global variables in C are statically allocated, so the memory for them will be reserved right from the start of the program > 1622698249 308745 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually I mean it might not be known until run time, and sometimes the variables might be used only for part of the execution and then it is finished with it, or it doesn't need it at the start but does use it later > 1622698280 781172 PRIVMSG #esoteric : however, if they're on a page that's all zeroes, most OSes won't actually allocate the page until you assign to one of them, so only the address space is allocated, not the physical memory > 1622698293 4824 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you are on a system with virtual memory, yes > 1622698305 245155 PRIVMSG #esoteric : right > 1622698315 452687 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, I am using Linux so I think that it does have virtual memory > 1622698318 923995 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you're programming a microcontroller then that doesn't help > 1622698319 13164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think most systems that have an OS also have virtual memory nowadays, although of course that wasn't historically always the case > 1622698335 929133 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that depends how you define an "OS" > 1622698347 444152 PRIVMSG #esoteric : on a microcontroller you normally care more about peak memory usage than anything, so it's usual to statically allocate everything so that you know how much is available > 1622698350 832216 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yep > 1622698360 599409 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it possible to specify what page to use for each group of variables, and then to cancel a page once it is no longer in use? > 1622698365 724229 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and if it's too much, figure out which variables aren't being used simultaneously and union them > 1622698369 583858 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm not sure I've *ever* used malloc in all my microcontroller programming > 1622698388 696669 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: not in a standard or portable way, both are possible in Linux (and probably other OSes) via system-specific mechanisms > 1622698448 201275 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in GCC you can specify the section for each variable, and then you can use a linker script to put all those variables together and align them to a page > 1622698455 27923 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and then use madvise(MADV_DONTNEED) > 1622698455 394666 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess putting them all in a big structure that's alignas() the page size would be one way to approximate it in (modern) standard C, although you would have to know what the page size was > 1622698470 944761 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but using a linker script would be the more normal way > 1622698483 720356 PRIVMSG #esoteric : on a symbol derived from the section load address (which the linker script can also give you) > 1622698552 595561 PRIVMSG #esoteric : MADV_FREE is possibly better than MADV_DONTNEED for this, it's a kind of "lazy" MADV_DONTNEED that delays the free until memory pressure occurs (or you unfree the pages by writing to them again) > 1622698600 567686 PRIVMSG #esoteric : although, this seems like the sort of thing that if you were heavily using it for performance, ideally the kernel API wouldn't require system calls > 1622698664 897232 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if there's no need to do something synchronously, you can imagine having a userspace buffer of "unimportant system calls" that the kernel reads when the process's timeslice starts/ends (not sure which timing would be better) > 1622698670 673518 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and runs them then, to save on context switches > 1622698681 206763 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think anything like that exists yet, but it should > 1622698715 616040 PRIVMSG #esoteric : For example, the hash tables are only needed during class loading, and the variables dealing with sounds are only needed if sounds are enabled > 1622698753 95206 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: if you're looking for a more standard mechanism, you can make the global variables pointers to dynamically allocated memory, allowing you to allocate the memory only when needed and free it after you're done > 1622698799 65343 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, I know, but I wanted to know if there is a way to do without dynamic memory, too > 1622698802 382707 PRIVMSG #esoteric : although, in practice, most mallocs will never return memory to the OS (until the program ends), rather recycling it for use in future allocations, except when dealing with very large allocations > 1622698875 839564 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've heard proposals to make all system calls asynchronous based on request / completion queues > 1622698881 680238 PRIVMSG #esoteric : not sure if that was ever implemented in linux > 1622698898 963685 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that in order to make a general-purpose malloc that did habitually return almost all the memory, you'd need some sort of GC that could move objects around and update the pointers to them, otherwise memory fragmentation would become too large an issue > 1622698900 582904 PRIVMSG #esoteric : keegan: I like that > 1622698941 552445 PRIVMSG #esoteric : except I guess you still want something like a synchronous system call that's just "wait for the next event" > 1622698943 180358 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've actually been wondering about how far you could go in terms of implementing system calls in userspace > 1622698952 88811 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (which could be a syscall completion or a timer or an I/O event) > 1622698960 225139 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and yes, you need one blocking call, which would basically be a hyper-general select-alike > 1622698968 320490 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah > 1622699253 246883 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't move objects around with malloc though; you will need realloc for such a thing, I think. (I don't know what implementations of realloc will do that well enough, though.) > 1622699257 122722 PRIVMSG #esoteric : when looking into the "world's fastest fizzbuzz" thing I was wondering whether it might be possible to implement pipes using shared memory, so that the kernel normally wouldn't need to be involved > 1622699293 639470 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: well, we're assuming that the malloc implementation wants to move them, the problem is that the program that allocated the objects typically won't be able to handle them unexpectedly moving > 1622699316 752682 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you'd probably need to use something that was able to trace all the pointers to the objects (even in registers) to be able to update them > 1622699351 322868 PRIVMSG #esoteric : esoidea: a "conservative" Boehm-GC-like GC, but which actually compacts objects in memory, and just updates anything in the address space that looks like a pointer > 1622699367 52622 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this would lead to random bits of memory corruption, but the program would probably still run > 1622699381 295994 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and you could probably work around it by programming defensively > 1622699493 244912 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The OASYS text adventure VM will set all references to an object to null when the object is freed, although it doesn't move around objects in memory (but doing so wouldn't be prohibited by the definition of the VM, as long as it looks in local variables and stack also; doing so would require keeping track of the types of values in the stack) > 1622699506 612056 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes > 1622699528 910039 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think compilers should generate metadata with programs that allow all the types of values in the stack and heap to be calculated via tracing pointers > 1622699538 295465 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they're pretty much doing that anyway at the moment, to generate debug info > 1622699547 523202 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it would be useful for precise garbage collection and compaction > 1622699734 195843 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes > 1622699767 780055 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know there's been a lot of design work on adding GC hooks to Rust > 1622699789 486803 PRIVMSG #esoteric : because they don't want to add a GC to the language implementation itself, but want to make it possible for third party libraries to implement GCs that integrate nicely > 1622699793 956741 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a fairly tricky problem > 1622699833 818166 PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw that kind of metadata is also used for another purpose: stack unwinding for exceptions > 1622699839 574115 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes > 1622699846 130509 PRIVMSG #esoteric : although, I'm not as sure that that's necessary > 1622699866 573170 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I had a great idea to save executable size, which is to determine the stack unwind rules via static analysis of the executable > 1622699886 881429 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and to make small adjustments to opcodes in order to ensure that the analysis would produce the right result > 1622699893 158879 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and to mark things like catch blocks) > 1622699911 219682 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well you can definitely implement exception semantics without stack unwinding, by transforming to a sum type. but it loses performance in the non-exceptional case > 1622699913 553485 PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least in x86, lots of asm instructions have multiple possible encodings, which let you put that sort of metadata there > 1622699916 176810 PRIVMSG #esoteric : now that's an interesting idea > 1622699944 989317 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the idea of "constrain your compiler output so it's statically analyzable" also shows up in other places > 1622699955 812000 PRIVMSG #esoteric : like various sandboxing schemes > 1622699972 70787 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Google's NaCl and other stuff > 1622699987 621011 PRIVMSG #esoteric : running untrusted native code by checking that it conforms to a restricted subset that has statically analyzable control flow > 1622699996 904613 PRIVMSG #esoteric : most notably, mov register, register has a spare bit, and the REX prefix is very common and has a spare bit (rex.x) in the majority of places it's used > 1622700095 844556 PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e: in both these locations, the two commands are specced as equivalent, so Intel/AMD couldn't break the equivalence in a future processor revision without breaking existing programs > 1622700140 459763 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so the only issue would be if you wanted to use the spare bits for two different purposes, and I think it'd be up to the executable format to decide which meaning it wanted > 1622700147 806485 PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are VM codes for such statically analyzable with sandboxing too, though > 1622700182 332790 PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: this seems unlikely to happen in practice, because the spare bits are a consequence of making the encodings orthogonal > 1622700200 552960 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so the reason they're there in the first place is because it was more performant to do that than to give them a meaning > 1622700224 864797 PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e: well, the amount of information you need for unwind, that isn't in the code already, is basically zero > 1622700244 904591 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, with GC it'd be way worse, you probably wouldn't have enough for that > 1622700247 462633 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was just thinking about unwinding > 1622700279 981363 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Although, some VM codes are not statically analyzable, but that will only mean that JIT is difficult; depending on the specific VM codes, stuff such as moving around objects automatically might still be possible > 1622700379 500554 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, a decently accurate algorithm for unwinding on a caller-cleans ABI looks something like "run through the program, executing only unconditional jumps, pushes/pops, returns, and anything that mentions the stack pointer" > 1622700440 32644 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the only common operation that misses is spills > 1622700490 42249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't know if it will work unless the program is written in that way, in which case it will work. > 1622700520 202610 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and I was thinking about this in combination with an ABI where spills were noticeably different from "regular" local variable access (accessing a different part of memory, so that local variable out-of-bounds wouldn't overwrite spilled data) > 1622700571 813308 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fwiw, nowadays I think of function calls and returns as a spill of the instruction pointer, it seems to map perfectly into the normal register spilling in the function prolog/epilog > 1622700604 116734 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the calling function doesn't get to use the instruction pointer because the called function needs to use it, so you have to spill it > 1622700690 800491 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, but you need to spill the register in order to make more than one call > 1622700727 984575 PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually, modern x86 does that too, but only for userspace→kernelspace `syscall`s > 1622700760 688597 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I think the reason is that is that it saves you from needing to figure out which stack you're using and what's allowed to access it) > 1622700805 82342 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is why syscalls on Linux clobber two registers, incidentally, it's because those registers were used to spill IP and flags during the syscall process > 1622700841 208708 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's call-preserved for obvious reasons, thus it must be technically owned by the caller > 1622700863 822629 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (although of course the callee can use it for other things temporarily as long as it restores the value) > 1622700994 495917 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess one benefit of using a link register is that it means that the processor doesn't have to understand the stack at the hardware level > 1622701008 521976 PRIVMSG #esoteric : although, I think hardware-accelerated stacks make a lot of sense for all but the very simplest processors > 1622701040 904031 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes > 1622701075 920528 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think both Intel and AMD have a separate predictor in the hardware whose job is to predict the value of %rsp, that runs ahead of the main predictors > 1622701102 333824 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and they also have an internal stack that stores the addresses of the last few unreturned call instructions to be executed > 1622701110 447029 PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is used to predict where a return instruction goes > 1622701130 378748 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (but the value needs to be read from memory anyway, just in case someone modified the stack in between the call and return) > 1622701174 799021 PRIVMSG #esoteric : IIRC something related to Spectre/Meltdown meant that there was some scenario in which you had to intentionally overflow that stack for security reasons > 1622701199 174874 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in order to overwrite any value an attacker might have put in there (which might cause speculative execution to something that shouldn't be speculatively executed) > 1622701359 812304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83883&oldid=83799 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+1810) 10testing tables > 1622701408 340049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83884&oldid=83883 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10fix > 1622701642 20012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83885&oldid=83884 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10 > 1622701662 295023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83886&oldid=83885 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+17) 10 > 1622701700 243241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83887&oldid=83886 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-1823) 10 > 1622702002 321028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83888 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+2006) 10Inital Commit > 1622702229 88070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83889&oldid=83888 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+513) 10 < 1622705286 12553 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1622705303 736028 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1622705575 230604 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's what unicode is for > 1622705587 598647 PRIVMSG #esoteric : to avoid spamfilters > 1622705915 84523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83890&oldid=83889 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+9) 10 > 1622706069 760133 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: well those are some scary eso-ideas > 1622706450 681575 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: on the practical side, the big advantage of Linux and C ecosystem is that most of the libraries are compiled in a way that has a fixed ABI and you'll be able to use the same binary without recompiling forever. (the rust guys are trying to work hard to break this, though perhaps that'll change in the future like on MSVC, but even in a rust library you could add a definite C ABI interface that you > 1622706456 688956 PRIVMSG #esoteric : export and then import with another smaller rust "header" library that you do have to recompile.) that makes it hard to try to do something like that garbage collection that requires every piece of code in your executable to adhere to some new ABI convention like that unwinding markings. > 1622706599 799350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83891&oldid=83890 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+44) 10 > 1622706650 186497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83892&oldid=83891 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10/* Instructions */ > 1622706684 703181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83893&oldid=83892 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-16) 10/* Instructions */ > 1622707021 82687 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I consider this assuming benevolence: let's say that rust doesn't have a stable ABI yet because it's a young language and they don't want to commit themselves to a bad ABI while the language is still evolving, because they might regret that later. > 1622707037 571519 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Bangyen14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83894 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+83) 10Created page with "whoa i've only made this wiki today and ppl made interpreters/compilers for it wow." > 1622707067 973359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Bangyen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83895&oldid=83894 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-83) 10Blanked the page > 1622707115 742395 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so for now, if you really want a fixed ABI, you have to explicitly define and export a C ABI, and import it from another crate. sort of like what you could do to have a binary that you don't have to recompile for a C++ library in Windows MSVC, back when MSVC broke the C++ ABI more often. though the situation isn't quite analogous to C++, so don't try to take that metaphor too far. > 1622707147 377409 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow that Bangyen dude implemented >30 interpreters > 1622707154 579686 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and yes, I do sometimes say that rust is to C++ as zig is to C, but rust crates which are relevant here are one of the things that really break this analogy > 1622707157 935480 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what a hobby > 1622707194 846356 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: you mean some people in #esoteric do weird and apparently useless things with computers? > 1622707449 557189 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should make one more useless thing > 1622707462 646615 PRIVMSG #esoteric : a translator between all the brainfuck derivatives > 1622707879 457598 PRIVMSG #esoteric : while downloading maps from davidrumsey.com it's so interesting to explore how town that know had different names during being settled by different people > 1622708009 41240 PRIVMSG #esoteric : for example, the first known town names in Crimea were given by Greeks, Evpatoria was known as Kerkinitida, then it was renamed to Gezlev idk by whom, maybe tatars that were owners of it for most of the time > 1622708057 917900 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sebastopol, Simferopol, Melitopol -- the "-opol" is from greek > 1622708123 753355 PRIVMSG #esoteric : then Russian names were changing sometimes during the Russian Empire > 1622708234 476224 PRIVMSG #esoteric : then seas also have multiple names because they are named by explorers from everywhee > 1622708341 336413 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and that German regions that int-e helped me understand the map about -- I didn't know they existed, and some towns there really had German names < 1622710203 721081 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5672d3-28.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1622710614 465470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83896&oldid=83882 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+43) 10/* Program Commands */ grow / shrink in terms of w < 1622710617 270599 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vkixxdpbtuzyeekq JOIN :#esoteric < 1622711051 724938 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5672d3-28.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric > 1622711311 674019 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, right, that. > 1622711339 907288 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I could do the usual "add a non-breaking space" thing. > 1622711382 873631 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or make "brctl: ignored" only work via private messages, maybe that'd be better. < 1622711992 121374 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki JOIN :#esoteric > 1622712115 141325 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Two reasons: I think it's good there's some way of checking it did what you told it to; and I need a way of reading the list before a restart so that I can persist it into the config file. > 1622712139 501666 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe we won't have a bridge so long that it's worth doing anything extreme, like having it write a file. > 1622712669 262729 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been wondering if there's a thing like that; I was going to set it on esowiki on the other network, so that all the bridged things and/or wiki changes stop showing up as activity. > 1622713565 589403 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /﹗⧹ THIЅ СHΑΝΝᎬL HАS ΜΟVΕᎠ TΟ IᎡϹ．ᏞIBΕRΑ．ⅭᕼAT #HᎪMRАᎠⅠΟ ⁄！\ > 1622713565 589502 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ／!⧹ JOIΝ ＃ዘAΜRAᎠΙΟ ΤOⅮAY. ΤHΙᏚ CⲎAⲚNΕL ΗAS ΜⲞVED ТΟ ΙᎡC․LΙBEᎡA.CHΑT ＃HAMRΑᎠIO /！⧹ > 1622713565 589567 PRIVMSG #esoteric : TᕼΙS ΟᖴᖴΙCΙAᏞᏞΥ EΝDORSᎬᗪ ⅯΕᏚSAGE WAS BROUGHΤ TO YOU BY ᒪIВERA․СНAT ᏚТАFᖴ < 1622714663 119951 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1622714663 250437 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Client Quit > 1622716050 801304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83897&oldid=83873 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+14) 10Added RAMDISP > 1622716121 517745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83898&oldid=83893 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10if Otesunki.stupid: Otesunki.scream() > 1622716536 48877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83899&oldid=83898 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+175) 10 > 1622716798 199497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83900&oldid=83899 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+22) 10/* Instructions */ > 1622717202 559122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PEWWWWW14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83901 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+2652) 10Unfinished. Only contribute if you know what you're doing! < 1622718345 897379 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1622721999 997401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tech Support Scam14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83902&oldid=83858 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Truth machine */ Fix > 1622722096 845126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoplight14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83903&oldid=82416 5* 03Jedgrei 5* (-29) 10It's not turing complete > 1622722161 7870 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [Re wiki-change:] I agree it's not, but I don't think it's really an OISC either. < 1622722669 879266 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds > 1622723232 41780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CatCatDeluxe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83904&oldid=83859 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (-19) 10 > 1622723484 655915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83905&oldid=83819 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+821) 10/* Notes */ > 1622724511 764007 PRIVMSG #esoteric : as I asid, brctl could respond in private or notice > 1622724519 463448 PRIVMSG #esoteric : to avoid highlight > 1622724995 430659 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't like bots responding in private when the trigger was public. But in any case the listing is now private-only. > 1622726535 343522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83906&oldid=83896 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+129) 10/* Program Commands */ accumulator deltas < 1622726668 174771 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vkixxdpbtuzyeekq PART :#esoteric > 1622727822 272953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83907&oldid=83906 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+43) 10/* Program Commands */ define x < 1622727925 855617 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@178-133-87-72.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1622732226 491577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83908&oldid=83905 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+309) 10/* Syntax */ > 1622732359 70449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83909&oldid=83908 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+29) 10/* Notes */ > 1622732676 378799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83910&oldid=83909 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+426) 10/* Notes */ > 1622732737 537759 PRIVMSG #esoteric : .oO(if only that occured to Gödel) > 1622732788 399315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83911&oldid=83910 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+135) 10/* An Actual Dictionary */ > 1622732875 686750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83912&oldid=83911 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-5) 10/* Example */ > 1622732929 400737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83913&oldid=83912 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+16) 10/* Example */ > 1622732946 472417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83914&oldid=83913 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */ > 1622733342 554474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trivial brainfuck substitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83915&oldid=80702 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+27) 10 > 1622734059 743532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83916 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+147) 10Created page with "this is a really interesting idea, I would love to see it be completed. ~~~~" > 1622735389 297185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoplight14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83917&oldid=83903 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+321) 10Implement > 1622735671 69494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MathR 5* 10New user account > 1622736087 254810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83918&oldid=83879 5* 03MathR 5* (+138) 10/* Introductions */ < 1622736654 229387 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1622736823 31478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MathR14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83919 5* 03MathR 5* (+40) 10Created page with "Hi I'm '''MathR''' and ''I like bread''." > 1622738843 533980 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there'll be a fun second wave starting around 2021-07-27 when all the libera nicks grabbed by the gold rush folks start to expire, and #libera will be overloaded by requests by other users to usurp them > 1622739206 80035 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok, so I have a silly question. suppose I want to render the logs of this channel in HTML, and want to assign a unique class to every nick so that I can assign unique full depth colors to them (and readers can customize those colors easily in browser side). should I use the nicks in the class names as is, which is valid but requires you to escape some characters in CSS, or should I translate the > 1622739212 502337 PRIVMSG #esoteric : brackets and backslashes to letters according to some ISO-646 character set? and if the latter, should it be the finnish or the norwegian? what ISO-646 character set does New Zealand use? > 1622739295 183053 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I would say the Finnish, but I'm obviously biased. > 1622739427 881549 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: what do I do with a "^" then? > 1622739430 478289 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Would you also lowercase them with the network's CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 rules, or just distinguish between case? > 1622739444 193476 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah, apparently you can map that to ü > 1622739479 870070 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I would make them case insensitive as in nicks that fold the same get the same class, but probably preserve the latest case that appears in the log in the class name > 1622739483 137846 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or... hmm > 1622739496 22144 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if I want to support user style overrides then that won't work > 1622739503 886131 PRIVMSG #esoteric : then I'll just casefold them all to uppercase > 1622739564 485074 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think its ü in ISO-646-FI proper, but I think it's all pretty flexible. > 1622739568 124844 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `` echo '[\]^{|}~' | iconv -f iso646-fi -t utf-8 > 1622739569 145315 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ÄÖÅ^äöå‾ > 1622739661 360312 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it's odd that Libera.Chat (the modern network) uses CASEMAPPING=rfc1459, while IRCnet (the agressively non-modern network that doesn't do services, and has half the open TLS-capable servers using expired certificates) uses CASEMAPPING=ascii. > 1622739719 32135 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: freenode used to do ascii, but they changed it when they changed the irc software > 1622739737 39072 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't know what they did to nick/channel registrations that clashed after > 1622739901 94715 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I did a survey of ircnet.clue.be, ircnet.hostsailor.com, ssl.irc.atw-inter.net, irc.swepipe.net and openirc.snt.utwente.nl in preparation of maybe switching to an opinionated TLS-only bouncer. The first two have a valid Let's Encrypt cert, but the third has a self-signed (though not expired) certificate, the fourth had a Let's Encrypt certificate for a completely different DNS name that had expired two > 1622739907 100704 PRIVMSG #esoteric : days ago, and the fifth had a Digicert-issued certificate that had expired in Sep 2020. > 1622739923 102487 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The last one also just closed the connection after TLS negotiation. > 1622739924 562432 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: are those all ircnet servers? > 1622739928 284624 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah. > 1622739968 626666 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I picked them from http://irc.tu-ilmenau.de/all_servers/?focus=1&open=1 which is supposedly automagically maintained by a crawler. > 1622739997 972346 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Back "home" it used to be the case that you just used your ISP's IRCnet server, and didn't have to worry about these kind of things. > 1622740049 661874 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: ircnet is terrible. it has a hodge-podge of servers ran to different specifications, even the nicklen and chanlen restrictions are different on them, which is, you know, weird because they apply to nicks and #-channels that are global on the network (for &-channels it would make sense) > 1622740057 197251 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and most of the servers are closed > 1622740067 50978 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and many of the servers are sometimes working sometimes not > 1622740074 317622 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am connected but I don't like the place > 1622740076 329637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83920 5* 03MathR 5* (+1928) 10Created page with "'''Jumping True''' is an esolang created by [[User:MathR|MathR]]. Its main particularity is that its conditional statement is based on the [[Truth-machine|truth-machine]]. It..." > 1622740088 810710 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know, but it's still "the" network for me, so I don't want to drop off. > 1622740111 97662 PRIVMSG #esoteric : freenode was "the" network for me. > 1622740128 822185 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm probably on more channels there than here, anyway. It's just that they're all utterly silent. > 1622740162 972891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83921&oldid=83920 5* 03MathR 5* (-2) 10 > 1622740174 442015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83922&oldid=83897 5* 03MathR 5* (+19) 10/* J */ > 1622740235 651053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83923&oldid=83921 5* 03MathR 5* (+17) 10 < 1622740313 73066 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622740400 177133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary but also Brainfuck but also neither (BBABBAN)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83924 5* 03Batata 5* (+4651) 10Created page with "'''Binary but also Brainfuck but also neither''' or '''BBABBAN''' for short (pronounced '''babn''') is an [[Esoteric_programming_language|esolang]] where, as the name..." > 1622740499 335073 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: in my entirely unbiased opinion you should go with norwegian hth > 1622740603 217567 PRIVMSG #esoteric : . o O ( BBABBAN IS YOU ) > 1622740752 166124 PRIVMSG #esoteric : BBABBAN, is that like one of those rhyme schemes? > 1622740797 897410 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess usually it'd be written AABAABC though. < 1622741505 869917 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc QUIT :*.net *.split > 1622741604 543566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MathR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83925&oldid=83919 5* 03MathR 5* (+28) 10 > 1622741646 466404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83926&oldid=83923 5* 03MathR 5* (+4) 10/* Language overview */ < 1622741655 805594 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1622741666 941495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83927&oldid=83848 5* 03Batata 5* (+65) 10 > 1622741675 395787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83928&oldid=83927 5* 03Batata 5* (+1) 10 > 1622741680 990496 PRIVMSG #esoteric : B AB A is You > 1622741711 468657 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so > 1622741723 886607 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I feel like this is slightly esoteric > 1622741789 917528 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you take length 10 binary strings (there's 1024 of them), 0000 occurs in 251 of them, 0101 occurs in 357 of them, 0011 occurs in 424 of them < 1622741799 351266 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN :#esoteric > 1622741826 535009 PRIVMSG #esoteric : rephrased: flip a coin 10 times, how likely are you to get heads 4 times in a row? (about 25% chance) How likely are you to get heads heads tails tails (about 50% chance) > 1622741955 91026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83929&oldid=83926 5* 03MathR 5* (+73) 10 > 1622741965 882741 PRIVMSG #esoteric : > 424 / 1024 -- sounds a bit high > 1622741967 420520 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.4140625 > 1622741987 824619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83930&oldid=83929 5* 03MathR 5* (-1) 10/* Language overview */ > 1622742042 788030 PRIVMSG #esoteric : roughly :P > 1622742044 215029 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but still > 1622742054 801785 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the fact these probabilities are different at all is pretty striking to me! > 1622742060 560153 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I found this highly unintuitive > 1622742143 317511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83931&oldid=83930 5* 03MathR 5* (+6) 10/* Examples */ > 1622742216 162361 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm... > 1622742295 111942 PRIVMSG #esoteric : river: i think it's related to the fact that some of those allow more simultaneous occurrences. like 0000000000 contains 0000 at 7 different spots > 1622742312 15991 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you cannot have that many at once for 0011 or 0101 > 1622742366 360610 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah I think it is! > 1622742369 499942 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you count the occurrences, i think it gets even > 1622742381 974932 PRIVMSG #esoteric : autocorrelation factor of 0000 is full, 0101 is half, 0011 is none > 1622742410 834323 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah let me try that out > 1622742417 755444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Typeform14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83932&oldid=83826 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+18) 10 > 1622742447 718949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Typeform14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83933&oldid=83932 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+9) 10 > 1622742461 743908 PRIVMSG #esoteric : river: yes, also if you flip a coin repeatedly until you first get one of two chosen infixes that you're listening to, and both infixes are the same length, it's possible that you'll more likely to encounter one of them first than the other > 1622742472 381741 PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is also a bit unintuitive > 1622742559 871668 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm i tweaked the program to count with multiplicity, but i still get different values > 1622742572 7613 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they are close to but all higher than the original numbers > 1622742612 482362 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm that's strange, i thought they would be equal by the linearity of expectation value > 1622742631 787754 PRIVMSG #esoteric : are you sure you counted all occurrences :P > 1622742680 245611 PRIVMSG #esoteric : specifically, my reasoning: you _must_ have the same probability of all the strings occuring in the _first_ position, and in the _second_ position, etc. > 1622742731 190289 PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/of all the strings/of any string/ > 1622742883 376601 PRIVMSG #esoteric : > replicateM 10 "01" > 1622742884 794378 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["0000000000","0000000001","0000000010","0000000011","0000000100","000000010... > 1622742963 708694 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://bpa.st/B6QA here's an example of looking for aa vs ab in length 5 bitstrings > 1622742979 702365 PRIVMSG #esoteric : aa occurs 23 times, ab occurs 32 times > 1622742991 740090 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this definitely doesn't make sense to me > 1622743008 951326 PRIVMSG #esoteric : How to configure Firefox so that if the current URI is a "file:" URI that points to a EPUB file, to automatically prefix "jar:" and suffix "!/" on the URL? > 1622743016 170685 PRIVMSG #esoteric : river: oh i see. i meant occurrences could be _overlapping_ too. > 1622743042 526151 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah > 1622743048 550148 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a mistake in my code > 1622743055 31442 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i meant to count overlapping > 1622743055 561505 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (so aaaaa should give 4 aa, not 2) > 1622743057 446925 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let me fix that > 1622743086 592380 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the python count function is broken > 1622743274 74438 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok! fixed, now I get 32 in both cases! > 1622743302 868747 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yay! > 1622743673 914680 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so what does this tell us... the number of times it occurs *is* equal - it's just that if a word has autocorrelation its going to happen in fewer runs, but more times per run > 1622743680 153839 PRIVMSG #esoteric : for reasons?? that are unclear to me > 1622743703 760313 PRIVMSG #esoteric : river: yes > 1622744038 544831 PRIVMSG #esoteric : tbh > 1622744043 702425 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I feel like I just have 2 mysteries now > 1622744059 549299 PRIVMSG #esoteric : why its equal when you could with multiplicity is not clear to me > 1622744588 622343 PRIVMSG #esoteric : river: counting with multiplicity is the same as counting each occurence of the string at each position. > 1622744642 633180 PRIVMSG #esoteric : now this should give the same result if you do it in a different order: for each position, count the number of large strings which have the smaller string at that position. > 1622744713 833809 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but that is the same as, number of positions * 2 ^ (number of bits outside the smaller string) > 1622744717 305433 PRIVMSG #esoteric : OMG > 1622744721 209817 PRIVMSG #esoteric : thats so neat!! > 1622744770 225800 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yw > 1622744898 235893 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are two funny probability problems that we discussed on #esoteric after I brought them up, the chameleon one and a card game > 1622744906 775357 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they're somewhere in the logs > 1622745037 24867 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which ones are they? Do you remember it to copy it? > 1622745138 785601 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have links. I'll have to search for chameleon > 1622745349 796606 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should download the logs at some point to make searching esaier > 1622745441 648086 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let me see... https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2016-10.html#lDQc > 1622745587 581735 PRIVMSG #esoteric : which links to https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2016-07.html#lhhc > 1622746336 538282 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can tell the problems again later if someone cares, with the cleaners proofs that we know now > 1622746899 494275 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am potentially interested in such things < 1622748070 130267 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric > 1622748580 375557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83934&oldid=83928 5* 03Batata 5* (+3) 10 > 1622748600 347565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83935&oldid=83934 5* 03Batata 5* (+1) 10 > 1622749249 747701 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://martingalemeasure.wordpress.com/2014/02/02/monkey-typing-abracadabra-14/ > 1622749256 428035 PRIVMSG #esoteric : monkey types randomly > 1622749259 238272 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >Wow, the average time for the monkey to type is actually longer than the average time to type . > 1622749272 500895 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >Wow, the average time for the monkey to type ABA is actually longer than the average time to type ABC. > 1622749294 96081 PRIVMSG #esoteric : does this align with the previous results? or contrast to them > 1622749434 338510 PRIVMSG #esoteric : river: yes, I did mention that variant > 1622749461 336115 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well not quite > 1622749465 137545 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mentioned something similar > 1622749471 232947 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're right that it's not the same > 1622749505 648538 PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't that backwards though? > 1622749517 860817 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ABA should have a shorter average time to first type than ABC > 1622749538 508609 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmmm < 1622749948 617054 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@178-133-87-72.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1622750210 191200 PRIVMSG #esoteric : of course that only applies if the monkeys hit keys uniformly. in reality they might have thick fingers so it's difficult for them to press just one button, or they're hammering on the keyboard with their fists or something > 1622750218 736676 PRIVMSG #esoteric : uniformly and independently > 1622750887 646828 PRIVMSG #esoteric : disappointed that the article does not involve actual experiments with monkeys > 1622750913 247384 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hehe > 1622751918 425988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Glypho14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83936&oldid=8211 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+1336) 10/* Python interpreter */ new section > 1622752382 920221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Justiof 5* 10New user account > 1622752888 19749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83937&oldid=83918 5* 03Justiof 5* (+218) 10/* Introductions */ < 1622753152 898276 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1622753753 673304 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm pondering using GNU Lightning. Do folks have anecdotes or opinions? One minor disappointment is that it seems that there's no AOT native-code emitter, so any intermediate/cached representations would have to be ad-hoc. > 1622754100 885789 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I read about it before; I had never tried to use it though > 1622755907 896297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Counting Calculus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83938 5* 03SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont 5* (+1038) 10Created page with "= Counting Calculus = A programming language of which the primary way of doing mathematical calculation is by counting the amount of -conversions done in a lambda-calculus e..." > 1622756006 371573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Counting Calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83939&oldid=83938 5* 03SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont 5* (+44) 10 < 1622757110 880390 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1622762015 593639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83940&oldid=83907 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+29) 10contract 'accumulator' amount > 1622762678 238530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83941&oldid=83940 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-12) 10/* Program Commands */ rearrange, not sure that's better < 1622764457 341657 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki JOIN :#esoteric