> 1622506369 549351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83774&oldid=83772 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+549) 10
> 1622506677 146279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83775&oldid=83757 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-13) 10/* Truth machine */
> 1622506688 410869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83776&oldid=83775 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-13) 10/* Hello World */
> 1622506698 256000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83777&oldid=83776 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-13) 10/* Add 2 numbers */
> 1622506711 376725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83778&oldid=83777 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-12) 10/* Writing Code */
> 1622506717 479807 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83779&oldid=83778 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-1) 10/* Writing Code */
> 1622506746 800191 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83780&oldid=83779 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-40) 10/* First Method: Point */
> 1622506760 176962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83781&oldid=83780 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-27) 10/* Second Method: Vector List */
> 1622506760 484272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SF Code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83782&oldid=83535 5* 03JaydenIrwin 5* (-27) 10removed self-modifing category
> 1622506823 436483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SF Code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83783&oldid=83782 5* 03JaydenIrwin 5* (+27) 10Undo revision 83782 by [[Special:Contributions/JaydenIrwin|JaydenIrwin]] ([[User talk:JaydenIrwin|talk]])
> 1622507674 900570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83784&oldid=83774 5* 03Doridian 5* (+28) 10Grammar fixes, formatting fixes
> 1622508774 408780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83785&oldid=83784 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+786) 10/* An actual dictionary */
> 1622508835 776882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83786&oldid=83785 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-19) 10/* Use */
> 1622513257 652801 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83787&oldid=83739 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+157) 10/* OK */
> 1622514810 174133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest46> Hello
> 1622514828 643455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest46> I am making an esolang, but need help making a compiler
> 1622514861 857725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest46> I really want it in python.
> 1622514883 126725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest46> Here are the docs : https://bluefalconhd.github.io/Dragynslash/docs
> 1622514906 673283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest46> Python is my most knowlegable langauge.
> 1622514986 604542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest46> And the esolang is based off of Asciidots
> 1622515074 359520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Welp im back
> 1622515079 273480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> accidentally reloaded
> 1622515087 770334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> i am the Guest45 dude
> 1622515095 37993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> making this https://bluefalconhd.github.io/Dragynslash/docs
> 1622515134 597246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> I need help with a compiler, as I hav no idea how to compile a 2d lanaguge.
> 1622515172 270832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> I really want it to be in python, and not use external packages except for built in ones like time and system.
> 1622515236 733274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> hello? anyone here?
> 1622515282 869546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Because it is a self made esolang.
> 1622515290 60089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> I need a compiler for output.
< 1622515300 656637 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Hmmm
> 1622515302 16825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> oh
> 1622515307 175809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> ok
> 1622515317 224606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> well then I need help making an interpreter.
> 1622515336 256150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> if any of you use github, here is the repo: https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/Dragynslash
> 1622515343 737288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> ok
> 1622515380 66768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Then adapt the code?
> 1622515539 983131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Ok thanks.
> 1622515552 664914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> If you use github, you can help out lol
> 1622515557 892998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> I suck at python
> 1622515565 241415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> but it is my best langauge
> 1622515623 678914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> lol
> 1622515666 904451 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Are you speaking is js
> 1622515670 491852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> gtg
> 1622516048 593851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​`hackeso, help me figure out when i first showed up in the channel pls? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1622516053 955515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $HACKENV are persistent, and $HACKENV/bin is in $PATH. $HACKENV is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert, https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ to browse. $PWD ($HACKENV/tmp) is persistent but unversioned, /tmp is ephemeral.
> 1622516171 292366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is moving to Libera Chat.
> 1622516221 573383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> imode is an Innovative Multicomponent Drug Designer, afflicted by a severe case of the UPPERs.
> 1622516326 476308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments.
> 1622516363 14130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
< 1622516462 796774 :iuhi7g!~noone@213162080044.public.t-mobile.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622516474 606679 :iuhi7g!~noone@213162080044.public.t-mobile.at PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password
< 1622516476 418963 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is moving to Libera Chat.
< 1622516479 984678 :iuhi7g!~noone@213162080044.public.t-mobile.at QUIT :Client Quit
> 1622516847 403376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 
ACTION never adapts others' code

< 1622523840 327237 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1622523848 604023 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622523858 672660 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 NICK :delta23
> 1622525986 121301 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83788&oldid=83786 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+180) 10/* Interpreter */
> 1622528431 224920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Airline food14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83789 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+253) 10Polyglot
> 1622531392 995570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83790&oldid=83787 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+57) 10
> 1622531526 764903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Airline food14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83791&oldid=82866 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+141) 10
> 1622533484 331178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oh yeah, password change. I forgot about that. 
> 1622535473 439685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83792&oldid=82994 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+2) 10Added a full stop and a line break near the top of the page.
< 1622540920 568460 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-001.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1622542189 338473 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622542190 343737 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Client Quit
> 1622544199 714543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> zzo38: multi-colored color indicators shown as multiple normal-sized disks only slightly overlapping would be nicer and easier to read, but indeed would be hard to fit to Nicol Bolas, the Arisen's type line now that the typeline shows "Legendary". perhaps it could only be reprinted in sets with narrower expansion symbols, not in core sets.
> 1622544434 449752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> "<int-e> The thing is, adapting code that you don't understand is likely to just not work." then why is copying huge blocks of boilerplate from StackOverflow stereotypically popular among code monkeys?
> 1622546032 962246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Also there's reasons why code monkeys remain code monkeys
> 1622546857 892529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Fixes the table? 
> 1622546979 366699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> :t fix head
> 1622546980 312925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> error:
> 1622546980 398005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>     • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a ~ [a]
> 1622546980 398048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>       Expected type: a -> a
> 1622547030 180005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> fungot: Do you even have a head? 
> 1622547030 418535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: the king awaits. you saved our queen? you see, the mammon machine! nya ha! what losers! you can walk your way across but that's the plan, so he was banished from zeal. a great disaster in zeal somehow threw me into this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind? the mystics supposedly despise you! i'm leaving!
> 1622547044 816086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> ^style
> 1622547044 905266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
> 1622547063 4863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> You can tell from all the references to Zeal.
> 1622547102 976141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Chrono Trigger?
> 1622547107 195387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yep.
> 1622547127 216110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There was a copy of "the script" at one of those gamefaqsy kind of places, that's what it's trained on.
> 1622547160 481096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> fungot: Is he really a tricycle? 
> 1622547160 620033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: you! take! we find! spekkio. the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus!
> 1622547172 876476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Dramatric.
> 1622547180 512159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> s/tr/t/
< 1622549252 395540 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1622549686 30694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> fungot!
> 1622549686 210045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> FireFly: must think of a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
> 1622549829 208828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Sound advice.
> 1622549873 869493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bubbles14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83793&oldid=67738 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+1109) 10/* Ideas */ new section
> 1622549988 700331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bubbles14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83794&oldid=83793 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+43) 10Sorry! I forgot to add my signature
> 1622550066 38157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83795&oldid=83790 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+283) 10signature check
> 1622550092 418541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83796&oldid=83795 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+2) 10signature check
> 1622550124 105672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bubbles14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83797&oldid=83794 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+81) 10sorry i messed up my signature AGAIN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
> 1622550182 164967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> indeed
> 1622550684 328947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83798&oldid=83796 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10No include
> 1622550696 554505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83799&oldid=83798 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10
> 1622550800 86769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83800&oldid=82646 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+133) 10?
> 1622550818 558572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83801&oldid=83800 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-24) 10-
> 1622551053 333445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> ~200 new official baba is you levels
> 1622551056 986460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> coming soon, this month probably
> 1622551105 328350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I should probably solve the first lot, then
> 1622551166 737154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> yes it's a good game!
> 1622551171 713407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I used hints near the end
> 1622551177 539145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> and some hints at the beginning too
> 1622551447 360249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I've been trying to do it without hints but I don't tend to be very good at puzzles
> 1622551456 683437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> And then I put it down and forget everything I've learnt
< 1622551747 322591 :zeroed!~zeroed@unaffiliated/zeroed QUIT :Quit: %done%
> 1622551969 493530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I think that it is hard enough that it's more fun to occasionally used hints after giving a level a really solid try
> 1622551992 629173 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> it just depends on whether you're still enjoying it or not
> 1622553599 327855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> does Baba is You have a secret secret secret ending, or only a secret secret ending? I get confused about which games have what.
> 1622553677 10811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I think it has only got two levels of secret ending 
> 1622553791 694090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> I have  question. How do I get a esolang on the wiki when I finish making it?
> 1622553851 853323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> You make an article for it
> 1622553866 676531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Are there guidlines ect.
> 1622553895 286919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> just write it up well
> 1622553900 336570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> Ok
> 1622553903 159306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> cool
< 1622556402 617826 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-026.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622557262 182523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Pie14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83802 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+1368) 10made
> 1622557354 454647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Qbit 5*  10New user account
> 1622557533 88793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83803&oldid=83762 5* 03Qbit 5* (+157) 10/* Introductions */
> 1622558106 697381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:VilgotanL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83804&oldid=83682 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+334) 10add github links
< 1622558436 292253 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622563788 290201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03ResU 5*  10New user account
< 1622564064 270713 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622564120 302961 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83805&oldid=83803 5* 03ResU 5* (+143) 10
> 1622565181 68913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:++Brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83806 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+211) 10created and asked meaning
> 1622567853 448391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Github is so lame they are not incapable to implement a CI to keep a green master in a repo with 500 contributors
> 1622567885 992631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://github.com/github/explore/commits/main
> 1622568026 715826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> to pretend in from of their own managers or whatever that they have CI they made a ./script/cibuild but still break the Github Action build
> 1622568113 522814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Truttle114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83807&oldid=83237 5* 03UltimateProGrammer 5* (+238) 10appreciation!
> 1622568115 940354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> why am I then being surprised my local folks if such as Github make this a quality standard
> 1622568732 461689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I feel like thelounge is having some bad time on authing on libera with sasl certificate
> 1622568740 936062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> switched to username+password
> 1622568742 120063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> anyway
> 1622568772 52639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> dude presses the pull request approval BEFORE asking to rebase; and calling the rebase a "Update branch" -- I even checked if it's maybe their term for that but nope, it's "Fetch upstream"
> 1622568839 423154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> then I checked who is that and it's an asian girl; previous time when I had a deal with Github stuff it was an amazing idiocy about rewriting someone's library with my library source code that I mentioned before -- that time it was some black dude
> 1622568986 827174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so I assume they are hiring based on the "need of diversity" rather on checking if people are competent
> 1622569840 504331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i think that's an unfair assumption to make purely from your experience
> 1622569862 263758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but also github is known for trying too hard to be woke (overcorrecting for an earlier period of their corporate culture) so it may be true anyway
> 1622569962 907346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> these things can get a bit cringe
> 1622570008 179774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> one time i was on an airplane and the guy next to me noticed I was trans and started going on and on about how woke his company is, and how he made everyone put their pronouns in their email signature and stuff like that, and i should come work for him, while saying almost nothing about what the company actually does or why i would be a good fit
> 1622570100 915099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> https://thehardtimes.net/culture/trans-person-crosses-street-avoid-overly-supportive-liberals/
> 1622570340 162814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83808&oldid=78988 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+131) 10/* Instructions */ Computational class (thanks to Monochromeninja)
> 1622570564 880382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I love how they say "we should care about everyone not only about ourselves" in their guidelines
> 1622570586 199814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and at the same time they FORCE-changed the default repo branch name for all the users
> 1622570759 611423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PythonshellDebugwindow/Rewriting Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83809&oldid=74118 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-141) 10Please delete
> 1622570800 686204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PythonshellDebugwindow/Vandevelo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83810&oldid=79353 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-223) 10This page should be deleted
> 1622571038 791547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> their build failed even after my rebase, lol
> 1622571173 462880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> any kind of woke guidelines or code of conduct should not be taken at face value. they are political documents meant to support a particular ideology
> 1622571188 925756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> the same people who promote these documents openly gloat about not following their own rules
> 1622571501 714474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i'm happy that it's not my problem anymore
> 1622571524 866265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> they changed my personal preference about the default branch name without notifying me and I've lost' multiple hours guessing why things don't work; why do they think I need it at all? what if I love the "master" branch name? what if also name by dev branch "slave" and it's my kink? they used black people as slaves for centuries in US but we didn't
> 1622571524 955605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> in Russia -- why should I be affected? it's not my problem...
> 1622571638 390903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> countries besides the USA exist?? whoa
> 1622571747 196253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Cerberus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83811 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+1412) 10Created page with "I wrote an interpreter for this. It has a wimpmode too: [https://tio.run/##nVVNb9s4ED2bv2KqPVRqJNVOFj0YdYGiwKI@dFOgvQlCQUu0zUYiBZJCEhT57dkZUrJlZYsF1jYscfjm8c0Hye7RHbW6eY6iiG1B..."
> 1622571838 109985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Cerberus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83812&oldid=83811 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+106) 10updated my post
> 1622571888 888574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> What I read, they allow you to change the default branch names individually per project and rename them. But if they did like you described, then perhaps it is too confusing what they did
> 1622572209 841228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (Which names are appropriate might depend on the project. Naming a branch "slave" is unlikely to be appropriate for most projects, but I cannot predict everything, of course.) (When you are mirroring a repository with another system, it would help to use the same branch names as the original rather than changing them to "main" or "master" (unless they already are), I think.)
> 1622572411 864875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> maybe we should also get rid of the word "robot" since it derives from a slavic word for "slave" / "serf"
> 1622572460 353923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> also "servo"
> 1622572498 235826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the "server" word is bad too?
> 1622572511 37797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> should it be "partner" or something
> 1622572539 233857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sknebel> still off-topic for #esolangs
> 1622572629 144723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I think is not the good idea to get rid of the words; it doesn't help.
> 1622573172 553031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> <wib_jonas> does Baba is You have a secret secret secret ending, or only a secret secret ending? I get confused about which games have what. => oh I hope they aren’t disjoint and I wouldn’t need to replay it all from scratch to get another ending
> 1622573185 598669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> not that I’m close (I’m not)
> 1622573230 318531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> that is a fun game
> 1622573236 22698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> maybe i should play it some more
> 1622573257 855070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i don't play many games but when i do it's often because they are mentioned here
> 1622573272 88858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> ++
> 1622573297 328620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> I think now half my games are those which were mentioned here :D
> 1622573307 528819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> or at least a third
> 1622573456 210297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I think probably none of the computer games I like to play are the ones mentioned here
> 1622573485 375717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> I was shocked when I learned today that blur filter in SVG is not a special attribute of a group or primitive, but a filter among other filters. Didn’t suspect that as Inkscape treats it a bit special and I get why — it’s very useful compared to many other filters which would often be more useful as part of a composite filter chain
> 1622573512 347583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> zzo38: but you mentioned them yourself so technically they are :)
> 1622574031 263971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> arseniiv: Yes, after I left the room I thought of that, yes they are mentioned on the IRC, even if I am the only one who did (well, at least some of them, not necessarily all of them are mentioned)
> 1622574405 314491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Some games I wrote by myself, although not all of them. I don't know if you liked any of the same ones or not
> 1622574932 794394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> The pokedex number is actually the old pokedex number
> 1622574945 635518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> now there is a national pokedex number which is sometimes different
> 1622574995 581565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> there may be a regional pokedex for each region with its own numbering
> 1622576974 126659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> github/explore available issue labels: bug, enhancement, duplicate, invalid, question, help wanted, wont fix, india
> 1622577012 984021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> no joke https://i.imgur.com/bhhMCd1.png
> 1622577179 524826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Tiangou14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83813 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+777) 10Created page with "I wrote an interpreter for this: [https://tio.run/##nZM9b9swEIZn81ectYROLLdGNyMKEGTSUGToaHi4iOeIsUSyJIW4KPrb3ZPsQgrdLp1EnZ573/ug3I9YW/PllGWZKEGbSN55iqQg1gTlp2fAAIqw0eYV3nWs4fH..."
> 1622578397 503251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> What is the new pokedex number?
> 1622579052 229820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> national pokedex number
> 1622579067 102186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> the national pokedex has a unique number for all pokemon of all generations
> 1622579082 676059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> the regional pokedex has smaller numbers but only assigned to local pokemon
> 1622579117 242938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, I know of the pokedex numbers, but you mentioned a old and new pokedex numbers; what is the difference?
> 1622579224 807915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> The first divergence is national pokedex number #152 Chikorita
> 1622579234 940775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> in the Johto region pokedex this is pokemon #1
> 1622579337 785504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, although I only use the global numbers myself, and the pokemon mahjong that I made up only uses the global numbers.
> 1622579373 750950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> what about regional pokemahjong which only uses regional pokemon?
> 1622579412 349045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> You could play it that way too if you wanted to I suppose, although I have not thought of that, but you are correct.
> 1622579548 859376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Starting the game requires knowing the number of generations, but you could use a variant rule for the regional variant, such as treat it as one generation for the rules that care about that.
> 1622579640 452373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> There are two kind of sequences possible, being numeric sequences and evolution sequences. When it is generation I only, all evolution sequences are also numeric sequences; with more generations, it might not be. (A sequence in mahjong must consist of three cards, so an evolution sequence cannot be made with Eevee. Its evolution is still relevant, but not for making sequences.)
> 1622580615 271335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Do you like pokemon mahjong game?
> 1622580784 260774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Spidey Zac 5*  10New user account
> 1622581138 831961 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i have never tried it
> 1622581147 289625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i don't play mahjong
> 1622581155 439887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I like it though
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> 1622585426 87250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I have liked mahjong and pokemon separately in the past. 
> 1622585446 917586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> 🀣 hurt itself in its confusion.
> 1622585463 208465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> `unidecode 🀣
> 1622585464 424271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+1F023 MAHJONG TILE ORCHID]
> 1622587007 219494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> So do I, but that doesn't necessary mean you can't play pokemon mahjong too.
> 1622587429 960549 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OfficialCraftCGame14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83814 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+111) 10Created page with "The creator of several games ''(some unfinished)'' and an esoteric programming language called '''Nevermind'''."
> 1622588466 985925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Maximxls 5*  10New user account
> 1622588715 53249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83815&oldid=83805 5* 03Maximxls 5* (+171) 10/* Introductions */
> 1622588999 474329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LongDick14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83816&oldid=81154 5* 03Maximxls 5* (+67) 10
> 1622590090 985281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83817&oldid=83788 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+288) 10
> 1622590584 196084 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83818&oldid=83781 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+67) 10
> 1622590837 113104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83819&oldid=83817 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+74) 10
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> 1622592105 966182 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83820 5* 03ResU 5* (+1335) 10Created page with "'''AEWNN''' (or '''An esolang with no name''') is an esolang created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. ==Variables== There are two types of variables: letter variables and VariablesWi..."
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> 1622592377 832307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Malbolge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83821&oldid=41030 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+1824) 10/* Python interpreter */ new section
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> 1622592865 425052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Emoji-gramming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83822&oldid=57083 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+445) 10/* Sign checking */ new section
> 1622593113 705974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83823&oldid=83820 5* 03ResU 5* (+6) 10
> 1622593433 434926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> A reason needing writing better web browser software is that existing software is like http://catb.org/jargon/html/U/user-friendly.html (It is one thing, not all of them, of course)
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> 1622593509 866013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Macintrash lol
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> 1622593938 529975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83824 5* 03ResU 5* (+68) 10Created page with "My esolangs: [[AEWNN]] (planned to make more esolangs in the future)"
> 1622594240 237098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83825&oldid=83824 5* 03ResU 5* (+12) 10
> 1622594288 301243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> ?
> 1622594291 908732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BlueFalconHD> what?
> 1622595109 934140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I agree, those should be unordered-list bullet points instead.
< 1622596134 674788 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1622597332 845737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> some trivial things you want to make for years but are lazy for no reason
> 1622597661 278624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> $ ruby upload.rb empty_file
> 1622597661 404225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> uploading as http://md5.nakilon.pro/d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
> 1622597661 404342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> $ ruby upload.rb empty_file
> 1622597661 404422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> file exists as http://md5.nakilon.pro/d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
> 1622597704 759582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> finally I made a bucket to store arbitrary files under their md5
> 1622597731 404081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> sure it loses the content-type but why would you download something without knowing what it is?..
> 1622598002 754119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> why would you use md5 for anything new in the year 2021?
> 1622598068 24115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> why not?
> 1622598100 656351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> because it's extremely broken as far as cryptographic properties go, and if you don't need those properties there are better (mainly, faster) hash functions you can use
> 1622598126 921259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's a hash sum of a file
> 1622598134 93283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's not a password
> 1622598160 264453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> it's easy to generate pairs of files with the same md5 sum
> 1622598161 452138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and it's a public bucket
> 1622598174 929052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> this might be only a nuisance in your use case and not a security concern, but it's still easy to avoid
> 1622598181 584814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's a public file storage -- what is the scenario of generating pairs of files?
> 1622598218 760890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> there is just no use case for which md5 is the best choice
> 1622598232 811641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this one
> 1622598233 123050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> except legacy systems
> 1622598237 637657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> no
> 1622598249 616530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> use sha256 and you won't need to worry about collisions (at least for the time being)
> 1622598264 947958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this is paranoidal
> 1622598278 726376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> how many files you should upload to get a collision?
> 1622598286 175789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> only two if it's deliberate
> 1622598295 691769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this is paranoidal
> 1622598296 818530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i think a generation of programmers was taught that "hash function" is synonymous with "md5" and they will never upgrade to something not broken
> 1622598300 5824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> oh well
> 1622598317 362059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> there's no reason to use the broken thing when non-broken things exist that are better in every way
> 1622598319 785778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I agree that you shouldn't use MD5 hashes to identify files; there are better hashes such as SHA-3
> 1622598325 920140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> just having md5 code in your codebase is a risk
> 1622598335 408367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> "oh we aren't using these for cryptographic purposes, it's fine"
> 1622598337 663306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> ...years later...
> 1622598349 54519 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what's the reason to select custom hash function for a bucket that I will upload a thousand of files in my whole life to?
> 1622598353 601553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> "custom"?
> 1622598359 440911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> in what way is SHA256 more "custom" than MD5
> 1622598371 650986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> they are both standards available in every modern hash function library
> 1622598381 322982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> in what way md5 is more custom than sha256?
> 1622598385 325834 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> you just got it in your brain that MD5 is "the" hash function
> 1622598388 265139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and that's wrong
> 1622598393 715950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and reveals you to be severely behind the times
> 1622598399 982151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you are angry on your own fantasies 
> 1622598400 486783 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Fossil uses MD5, but not to identify files. Rather, each deck ends with a Z card which has the MD5 hash of all preceding cards, and then the resulting deck is identified by the SHA-1 or SHA3-256 hash of the entire deck including the Z card.
> 1622598414 320807 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> fantasies that someone is stupid enough to not know about hash functions
> 1622598429 486638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> angry without understanding the use case
> 1622598438 348512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i've made my case and you choose not to understand it
> 1622598439 415175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> that's fine
> 1622598442 538236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i'm going to eat pizza now so ttyl
> 1622598462 818158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you are just saying random trivia that is not applicable
> 1622598498 483891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wasting attention on inexisting problem
> 1622598538 159410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Some protocols require MD5, such as the HTTP auth
> 1622598680 959463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I must be using the HTTP auth because I'm from a "generation of programmers was taught that "hash function" is synonymous with "md5""
> 1622598701 292490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and probably my empty bucket will be used for a Mars mission
> 1622598726 352769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Even if you are, that doesn't mean that MD5 should also be used for other purposes too
> 1622598731 709042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I agree with the "there's no valid use case for MD5 except where it's required for interoperability" case. Libraries will eventually stop offering it as a choice; that's a good enough reason to not to pick it even when the choice would be otherwise arbitrary.
> 1622598773 990355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but where did I say that I should use md5 everywhere? it's just a way I index files in my bucket that I don't even immediately use
> 1622598873 560121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but why'd you choose it
> 1622598878 79463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> when it's known to be broken
> 1622598884 532609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and you could choose something not known to be broken, with zero downside?
> 1622598894 83025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you won't be even able to make me a problem because you don't have an Upload access to the bucket
> 1622598913 250464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's broken only in your fantasies
> 1622598931 411244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> in fact I'll never have an issue with this bucket and script
> 1622598959 802704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> MD5 hashes are also shorter than SHA-1 hashes or SHA3-256 hashes
> 1622598966 65033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> that may be, but there is still no reason to choose the broken thing
> 1622598988 910093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> there is no more sense in chosing another hash function for my bucket than in using Pi as 3.14 and a million of digits after .
> 1622599035 54017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> zzo38 and it might be a reason to use it because it's an utl to a file -- it's good when it's short
> 1622599042 223264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *url
> 1622599052 875386 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Typeform14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83826 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+273) 10creating page with language idea
> 1622599066 12002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, but you could shorten it by using base64 instead of hex, or something like that
> 1622599149 285952 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> using md5 is shoddy engineering that reveals you don't really care about doing things right, even if it doesn't cause any immediate practical issue in this particular application
> 1622599154 703718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> that's all
> 1622599157 352300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> if you disagree that's fine
> 1622599164 503237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> there's no reason for me to keep stating this
> 1622599241 441917 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> i mean if being short is all that matters why not crc32?
> 1622599254 571477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i didn't mean to shit on your accomplishment but i guess we both got confrontational about it
> 1622599269 467109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> CRC-32 is probably way too short for that, collisions are too likely even if accidentally
> 1622599270 483782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> well, 32 bits is short enough to worry about even accidental collisions
> 1622599275 729693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> good point
> 1622599279 203473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> sorry, context matters
> 1622599284 614662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> zzo38 the "/" char would create a folders in bucket tree for no reason; also I like how hex looks
> 1622599349 695815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I'm surprised base62 is used so little. I guess it's because you can usually find at least two more safe characters, like the URL-safe variant's _- pair.
> 1622599350 153314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> nakilon: You can use a variant of base64 with different characters in use
> 1622599412 320305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> zzo38 adding some custom library dependency to my script...
> 1622599460 557989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> it's a lot more annoying to implement when the base is not a power of 2
> 1622599462 733103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> maybe my stdlib even has base64, still it's overcomplicating things for no real purpose
> 1622599470 107468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I mean base62
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> 1622599600 947008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and yes, right before starting making the script I googled the length of crc32 and md5
> 1622599641 193960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and make a choice between them
> 1622599844 527052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm, maybe HackEso's `paste should have used a hash function for the file name for deduplication purposes... but then it'd have to rename the file after the fact, because it needs to (really *only*) work for non-seekable inputs.
> 1622599851 717147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I guess it's probably not worth it. There are a total of four pastes that have been pasted twice, and a single paste (unsurprisingly, the empty file) that has been pasted 7 times.
> 1622599866 756731 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think people have been cleaning up that directory every now and then though.
> 1622600077 653615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Can any newer hashing algorithms which have a secondary hash starting at a different offset and then add that hash at the end of the data when computing the primary hash? (e.g. similar to having H(X||H("0"||X)) although you can do other things such as having different parameters for the secondary hash, or adding the length differently, etc)
> 1622600079 291103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this reminds me how people love to play in an echo chamber about "regexes can't parse HTML/XML"
> 1622600120 754588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> because it's easier and funnier to be in an echo chamber than learn that some regex engines support recursion and parse HTML/XLS with no issues
> 1622600201 819135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> living in imaginary world where they've learned some "rules" of how things work and can't be assed to learn more
> 1622600960 86266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> I'd argue said regexes are not regexes
> 1622600967 919744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> because regex refers to... regular expressions
> 1622600981 308056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> instead they're regex-flavored programming languages because pain :)
> 1622601859 329974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> yeah
> 1622601872 98597 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> it just depends on how you define the word "regex"
> 1622601957 669746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> there's also the question of whether you *should* try to parse HTML/XML with such grotesquely-extended regex engines even though you *can*
> 1622601969 436703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but this is #esolangs so I guess the answer to that one is affirmative :)
> 1622602002 632556 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> regardless, attempting to do anything tree-shaped with a regex is usually a sign that you're doing it wrong and should consider a different approach
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> 1622602036 72180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I don't think I've ever come across a purported XML-munching regular expression that'd deal with <![CDATA[ ... ]]>, even though it's certainly possible.
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> 1622602926 824508 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> computational linguists are so pedantic
> 1622603118 547413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> thinking they can proscribe what regular expressions are - they should be studying how real groups of people _use_ regexes and simple describe 
> 1622603309 497012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> (that's (supposed) to be a joke, just in case anyone strongly disagrees, or worse, agrees)
> 1622603315 822776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> lol
> 1622603318 836466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I wasn't totally sure ;)
> 1622603332 903162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I think descriptive computer languages theory is a good idea though!
> 1622603366 496561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> it's definitely something people do
> 1622603378 211056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> take popular ad-hoc features and try to formalize them
> 1622603407 245748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> *** "proscribe" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
> 1622603409 271832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> proscribe
> 1622603411 253400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>     v 1: command against; "I forbid you to call me late at night";
> 1622603413 259427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>          "Mother vetoed the trip to the chocolate store"; "Dad nixed
> 1622603415 256513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>          our plans" [syn: {forbid}, {prohibit}, {interdict},
> 1622603417 347865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>          {proscribe}, {veto}, {disallow}, {nix}] [ant: {allow},
> 1622603419 259556 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>          {countenance}, {let}, {permit}]
> 1622603494 681189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> ugh, I used the wrong word: prescribe I meant.  
> 1622603583 357462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> can lambdabot adjust line width?
> 1622603622 386986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> It feels like there could be a joke in there. I wish I'd done it deliberately. You can't proscribe what word I use to mean x ... or something
> 1622603625 680024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> needs some regexes
> 1622604156 349314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> imagine that at the time you were learning programming people naming 10 random languages were not naming those that they would name today http://www.softpanorama.org/Bulletin/Humor/how_programmers_hunt_elephants.shtml
> 1622604159 122599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> except C
> 1622604188 374126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> even 12
> 1622604257 894027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hm half of them sound like dbms though
> 1622604453 484366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> two other lists can be found on this page http://www.softpanorama.org/Lang/programming_languages_humor.shtml
> 1622604698 548670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Goglesq 5*  10New user account
> 1622605051 751418 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> half of text on this page is written before my birth I guess
> 1622605539 256954 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83827&oldid=83815 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+247) 10
> 1622605796 27129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83828&oldid=83765 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+14) 10
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> 1622606469 464008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> ? discriptive linguistics
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> 1622607125 149517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83829 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+1955) 10Created page with "NScript is a basic esoteric language designed to be at least somewhat unique. NScript has a couple nicknames by the creator: NS, NoahScript NS has plenty of flexibility and ha..."
> 1622608504 610557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83830&oldid=83829 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+2115) 10
> 1622608627 215283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83831&oldid=83830 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+0) 10
> 1622613062 115843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> is it German? can anyone read it? https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~301174~90071678:Statistical-Table--Evangelisch---Lu?sort=pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_date&qvq=q:pub_title%3D%22Atlas%20der%20Evangelisch%20-%20Lutherischen%20Gemeinen%20in%20Russland.%20St.%20Petersburg.%20Buchdruckere
> 1622613062 245282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> i%20der%20Kaiserlichen%20Akademie%20der%20Wissenschaften.%201855.%22;sort:pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_date;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=12&trs=13
> 1622613110 227890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> shorter link: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~301174~90071678:Statistical-Table--Evangelisch---Lu
> 1622613375 999054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I thought I recognised 'soul' in Seelenzabl -- which seems to be "soul count"
> 1622613382 425416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> a religious census?
> 1622613519 513471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's stats appendix pages to maps, it's the last page of stats and others are pages per guberniya
> 1622613555 63966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> on this page I wonder what the biggest titles say
> 1622613575 513188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "souls per priest" -- interesting
> 1622613624 833803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> oh, 'zahl', as in zahlen ℤ
> 1622613977 466277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Евангелическо-лютеранская церковь в России, Украине, в Казахстане и Средней Азии is a thing it seems
> 1622614094 403227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> reminds me -- does Google home exist in Russia? I was yelling at my Google home in frustration trying to listen to specific Russian soundtrack music that it played to me first and I wanted to hear again
> 1622614147 684188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> there should be a town Melitopol somewhere on the right page here, I can't find it: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~301173~90071677:Statistical-Table--Evangelisch---Lu
> 1622614178 752508 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> after ages of tweaking settings I got it to correctly recognise me saying 'поход' and it was spelled correctly on screen, then it's spin a bit and convert it to some silly English word and play me random stuff based on that
> 1622614179 126301 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the right side is Tavricheskaya Gubernya that is this region https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%83%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4
> 1622614191 693535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (the yellow one)
> 1622614270 498796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> salpynx not sure, but Russian analogue is from Yandex, called Yandex Alisa or something -- it's a name of the voice driven assistant
> 1622614297 280410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> salpynx https://yandex.ru/alice/smart-home
> 1622614362 402991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e not sure what you mean, that's 1500km away
> 1622614406 413879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but if you mean the administrative division then the analogue would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courland_Governorate
> 1622614463 587260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so yeah, this is the proper link to the right page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurida_Governorate -- you see there is "Melitopolsky Uyezd (Melitopol – Мелитополь)" in wikipedia article
> 1622614670 550768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's here in the middle https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~301169~90071673:Die-Kolonien-in-den-Gouvernements-J
> 1622614904 143346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> interesting, I have one of those JBL speakers that work with the Yandex assisant. The vague non-committal Google messages make some sense now if the Russian market is already covered. It's like they'd started trying to support it years ago but not bothered getting over the line, unlike other languages(/markets)
> 1622614980 780780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e that's weird, it's the center of Melitopolsky Uyezd
> 1622615008 16433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yeah those green and red regions don't make sense to me
> 1622615111 680502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh you mean the map author only provided stats for regions that were relevant to him?
> 1622615129 292937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I thought those are just population charts and have to include all the biggest towns
> 1622615177 877227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ok, thanks
> 1622615305 726996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> salpynx from some points of view it's harder for Google to compete in Russia because Yandex was the first Web Search engine, a year before Google, and all the technologies then were built in parallel but Google has no clue in Russian language so the indexing, ranking and stuff is hard for them
> 1622615339 360472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or "the first morphological search", I don't remember the details
> 1622615367 353942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> companies are technologically nearly equal, Google is just bigger
> 1622615394 958102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> proportionally to US economical size
> 1622615406 712362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_(virtual_assistant) has interesting comments about Russian speech recognition complexity too
> 1622615455 96965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e yeah but I would sudgest those numbers to be in thousands; then 8mln would be too much for that year, yeah
> 1622615483 486679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> salpynx Alisa is one of the services that is a lot ahead of Google's Assistant
> 1622615547 721798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> google Assistant can set a timer and tell a weather, Alisa at that time was doing relevant jokes, sarcasm, had a mood, was learning your conversation habits, etc.
> 1622615811 170623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh now it makes sense, int-e here is the first page of the book: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~301163~90071667:Title-and-Index-Page--Atlas-der-Eva
> 1622615851 518125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> interesting, the book in German was published in Peterburg
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> 1622616539 49985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> salpynx basically because Yandex is much smaller it's easier to get things done; i.e. to make a prototype of such thing like Alisa it takes a team of guy with ideas, a mobile app dev, NLP guy, audio recognition guy -- they are all working within the same building and can gather for a meeting or a dinner in 5-10 minutes
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> 1622617727 508726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Polyglot14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83832&oldid=40598 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+485) 10
> 1622617739 474043 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Polyglot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83833&oldid=83832 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+1) 10
< 1622618729 735898 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1622620305 57955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "<keegan> i don't play many games but when i do it's often because they are mentioned here" => yes, that helps, people here often give good recommendations
> 1622620325 766597 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "<arseniiv> I think now half my games are those which were mentioned here :D" => by people other than you? 
> 1622620773 330704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> why dont we get about/esolangs cloaks
> 1622620788 22408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> by registering as a community
> 1622620979 494016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> river: we're in the queue
> 1622621041 527291 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> ok
> 1622621192 417825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: one of the last steps to make the move to libera/#esolangs official will be to edit https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal to say "official home" again. I didn't dare to do that, but if you wish, you can now.
> 1622621245 674510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> putting it in the official password of the month was a good move too
> 1622621290 852468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hmmm
> 1622621294 674238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> yeah
> 1622621304 224367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I was considering "dvd demagnetizer" as the password, but this is better
> 1622621392 661195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the "normal" page of the map like this https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~285423~90057692# has the link "View in Georeferencerer" but then I don't see a way to get from the georeferencerer back to normal page, that is vital because it has the Export button... I opened like 100 maps via Georeferencerer map navigation and see
> 1622621392 839931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> no way to now export what I need... 
> 1622621611 311737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> `password
> 1622621612 690525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ffklwnqmpoyfcqh
> 1622621633 196978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> 188) <quintopia> vorpal: a lot of people in AK fly  <Vorpal> quintopia, well getting a pilot cert is a lot more complex than a driving license :P  <quintopia> being an AK resident is a lot more complex than a driver's license too
> 1622621640 96056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> The password of the month is moving to Libera Chat.
> 1622624661 561030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (found it, there is a hyperlink "Website")
> 1622625089 131542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> iirc, i learned about df here
> 1622625118 432897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Dwarf Fortress or the unix command
> 1622625132 678023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /bin \ none            997M     0  997M   0% /dev \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /lib \ tmpfs           124M     0  124M   0% /tmp \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /usr \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /sbin \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /lib64 \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /hackenv \ none             24G   16G  6.5G  72% /hac
> 1622625158 885380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I'm struggling to find a direct treatment of the orientability of a disk -- seems like it should be pretty straightforward, but the fact I can't find any clear statements about it has me confused. Everyone talks endlessly about Mobius strips and more complex objeccts
> 1622625181 622129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> dwarf fortress
> 1622625188 965263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> best game i ever played
> 1622625194 263016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Mmmmm
> 1622625222 798783 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Speaking of which:
> 1622625224 28764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 10:13 [libera] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.libera.chat)- The #esolangs namespace is registered to the esolangs project
> 1622625227 287534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 10:13 [libera] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.libera.chat)- Public contacts: int-e, fizzie
> 1622625235 747429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's just gone through.
> 1622625271 968732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (I don't know how to *actually* manage cloaks, though, even though we now have that namespace.)
> 1622625341 871000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> cool!
> 1622625438 215965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I think you can just ask a friendly local staffer
> 1622625467 212707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I would like an esolangs cloak
< 1622625619 191715 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622625826 61322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I know some projects have some kind of a policy about cloaks; I don't know what ours should be. Maybe discuss on the wiki? I'll post an update on the talk page in a minute that it's now registered.
> 1622625846 36938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LiberaCloaks "To avoid overwhelming libera.chat staff, we are only issuing cloaks in batches." Yeah, sounds like it's probably just an ask-a-staffer thing; and also makes sense to collect them into a batch rather than bother the staff one-by-one.
> 1622625860 164356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Not that I think our community is quite as populous, but still.
> 1622625928 572312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I don't know about myself, but I think my bots could do with one. Or at least fungot. If it's not "about/esolangs/...", I don't know what is.
> 1622625928 773417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
> 1622625985 928280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> int-e: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... well? yes no
> 1622626032 119695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> oh in order to allow for as long message lines as possible?
> 1622626045 508902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> heh
> 1622626547 867299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, that's approximately what I'm writing up in the next window over to that initial comment. :)
> 1622626705 53239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, I did in fact have a quick chat with him about this channel; he said he'll likely be continuing the thing of mostly reading via logs and then dropping by if there's anything particularly interesting.
> 1622627256 263523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83834&oldid=83499 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+2025) 10/* Libera.Chat community and cloaks */ new section
> 1622627743 139597 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83835&oldid=83619 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+115) 10/* IRC */ Insert the word "official".
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< 1622628941 394 :ProofTechnique_!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-upqitgagdepuqhgk NICK :ProofTechnique
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> 1622629239 957216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> fizzie: be careful, I think the cloak would be longer than the bots' current hostname. if you want to request a cloak for them, at least consider that.
< 1622629266 215927 :V!~v@anomalous.eu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622629283 852243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> yeah, int-e pointed that out too, I see it in the losg
> 1622629331 310800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, it was brought up. I still think it's worth it (in terms of the length limit not being *usually* a problem), but it's a scow that you have to make such a tradeoff.
> 1622629433 406318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> "<int-e> We shoiuld get ais523 over here." => he was here in the sense that he joined the channel on libera at least once; otherwise he generally logreads and joins only when needed
> 1622629459 263723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it should not be a problem for bot -- he doesn't see own messages
> 1622629511 685666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> fizzie: if you want an actually shorter hostname, you may be able to get one, because unaffiliated cloaks are now shorter\
> 1622629524 956500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> they start with user/ instead of unaffiliated/
> 1622629532 689372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I wonder if there is a bot that makes daily RSS from IRC logs
> 1622629549 203663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S]
> 1622629566 126089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, there's that. But these specific bots *are* so "about/esolangs", it'd be nice to keep it in.
> 1622629598 627106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> "about/esolangs/bot/botname" is 19+length("botname") characters; anything I run off the wiki server would otherwise be "techne.zem.fi" (unless I want to play with the reverse DNS) which is only 13. So that's a net loss of 13, for the obvious 7-character bot names.
> 1622629624 368613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> do we know who runs the tunes.org logs and whether they could join the bot here?
> 1622629642 759939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> a backup set of logs might be nice
> 1622629664 86946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> or if kspalaiologos wants to restart their logs, that could work too
> 1622629702 287817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> fizzie: they're about esolangs, but I don't see why the irc hostmust has to say that, rather than saying that elsewhere
> 1622629705 208424 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> actually website hosted logs can easily have RSS format
> 1622629743 968078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> for example, having 10 last days items (excluding current day that isn't yet ready)
> 1622629749 786003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> I mean I can see some use of the hostmask for network services and IRCops for security reasons so that anyone can quickly verify that a message is from a real IRCop or service
> 1622629817 871871 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> but for just HackEso or esolangs or fungоt that's less important
> 1622629834 646998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> At least fungot's current host"name" of "2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a" (22 characters) is only moderately shorter than "about/esolangs/bot/fungot" (25). I haven't asked if my ISP would be interested in delegating the relevant ip6.arpa zone, but given that they're your typical end-user/consumer/residential ISP, I feel like probably not. I've only had two ISPs so far who've been willing to do that.
> 1622629834 750278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: but cyrus! are you leaving!
> 1622629895 280027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> oh, fungоt doesn't run on the same server as esolangs and HackEso or at least a neighboring one?
> 1622629915 300504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> No, I run it at home. Less mission-critical, y'see.
> 1622629919 693808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> makes sense
> 1622629944 970598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> I don't currently have an always-on machine, but perhaps I should still make logs on my often-on home machine
> 1622629984 166881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> I'm not willing to run any evalbot, I decided that's a security problem that I'm not willing to tackle in the near future, but just making an IRC connection with logs can work
> 1622630016 707054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> and it may still be useful even if it's off like one day every two weeks and possibly shorter interruptions from irc server disconnects or network outages
> 1622630048 580270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Also I don't want to abuse the donated resources esolangs.org has, our hosting provider's really sponsoring the wiki rather than "everything tangentially related to the wiki".
> 1622630049 996770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> only I don't have a fixed IP address, so I'd have to set up something to point there if I want to make the logs public
> 1622630065 399998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> fizzie: oh! I didn't know it was donated
> 1622630075 398663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, nobody pays for it.
> 1622630098 884156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I mean, I imagine a single tiny VPS is really a rounding error for a proper cloud provider, but still.
> 1622630182 947643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> sure, I just didn't know it was donated
> 1622630223 838596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> Is there like a banner thanking them on the esowiki main page or something?
> 1622630226 232519 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> I don't see one
> 1622630232 196003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's at the bottom.
> 1622630240 463213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The tiny little ":bytemark" one.
> 1622630251 454487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> ah I see
> 1622630268 805709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And also a brief mention at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:About actually.
> 1622630274 551863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> and it also has the new Mediawiki icon rather than the old sunflower
> 1622630292 756173 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> my "evalbot" costs 0$, it's within free GCP tier
> 1622630316 150294 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> oh nice, the Bytemark banner leads to a 404 page
> 1622630328 749636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, looks like Bytemark removed those /r/... URLs, so our backlinks to their website are now 404s.
> 1622630338 660851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, I doubt we've been generating much traffic there either.
> 1622630402 288419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> sure, it just, you know, makes an internet host provider unprofessional when they break their links
> 1622630430 671817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I'm not 100% sure it ever worked. ;)
> 1622630498 335507 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> reminds me some IBM technology that our bank used... forgot how it was called
> 1622630553 958625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it was about superfast and reliable server mirroring
> 1622630604 383940 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> their webpage sais it's super reliable and the link "read more" just leads to a page with server error
> 1622630623 577494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Server unavailable IIRC
> 1622630674 463883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> https://web.archive.org/web/20180119185751/https://www.bytemark.co.uk/r/esolangs says it did work at some point
> 1622630749 433106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Mhm. With a proper GA ?utm_source=... param too. I'd be interested in seeing the stats of that campaign. :)
> 1622630846 464760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> damn, can't find the link
> 1622630945 610717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the technology kind of really worked but servers were failing once in few months and it needed a day to relaunch/sync it after a crash and so it was really possible that two could fail at the same time
> 1622630983 653913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but we didn't buy the third server because they costed several mln $
> 1622631171 615054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's funny how things there were at the same time ridiculously expensive and unreliable
> 1622631204 504099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> especially considering that if bank stops operating for several hours it loses government license
> 1622631470 358790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh I guess I found it: "MIMIX -- Availability protects your business from downtime and data loss. Data, applications and critical system information are replicated in real ." ... https://www.ibm.com/partnerworld/public/404-page-error?solution=11871
> 1622631509 489883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I mean https://www.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=11871 -- you'll redirect
> 1622631912 576919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:IRC cloaks14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83836 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+2290) 10Actually, let's just create this one as a placeholder, it's not like it costs money.
> 1622632131 283510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83837&oldid=83834 5* 03Fizzie 5* (-13) 10/* Libera.Chat community and cloaks */ Fix link.
> 1622633638 657031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_g_surface says: "A non-orientable surface of genus zero is the disc."  That sounded interesting, but I'm so far from finding a proof or even a clear statement of how, that I'm beginning to doubt it's true. Anyone here know or can justify it?
> 1622633686 247232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i don't know this math
> 1622633763 160598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> > Let M be a connected topological n-manifold. There are several possible definitions of what it means for M to be orientable. Some of these definitions require that M has extra structure, like being differentiable. Occasionally, n = 0 must be made into a special case. When more than one of these definitions applies to M, then M is orientable under one definition if and only if it is orientable under the others.[2][3]
> 1622633765 15462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:85: error: parse error on input ‘of’
> 1622634120 861603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> > Theorem 3.2. A closed and connected surface is non-orientable if and only if it contains a M¨obius strip.
> 1622634122 665708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:106: error:
> 1622634122 754761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>      parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
> 1622634142 415947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> it's a bit weird to think how a disk with boundry contains a mobius strip
> 1622634169 773223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i guess that if you travel "off" the disk you bounce back, flipped
> 1622634211 359246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I think the disk is equivalent to the 2d projective plane?
> 1622634214 114393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> right, that's what I have been thinking, this n=o disc feels like it must be a special case, because I can prettty much follow any higher n argument, which are easy enough to find. If a disc/disk is a special case, I would have thought someone would deal with explicitly and set out what definitions and conditions apply
> 1622634242 717502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/308804/homeomorphism-between-real-projective-plane-and-disc
> 1622634275 984419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> and that's what I though must apply, a disk must be in some sense homeomorphic to a mobius strip and the projective plane minus a point, but I can't see that
> 1622634276 342371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> maybe it's easier to understand that RP^2 is non-orientable
> 1622634293 901794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> minus a point?
> 1622634304 374961 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> hmm
> 1622634312 303406 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> X = D/~ where ~ identifies antipodal points
> 1622634314 142261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> sorry! with a hole!
> 1622634345 167752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> mobius strip is homeomorphic to the projective plane with a hole
> 1622634347 214293 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> oh
> 1622634353 316583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> X = D/~ where ~ identifies antipodal points *on the boundary of D*
> 1622634363 808934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> interesting
> 1622634370 706133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> so, this aligns with the theorem posted
> 1622634375 314755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> "contains a mobius strip"
> 1622634390 89949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> http://math.uchicago.edu/~may/REU2016/REUPapers/Zhang,Y.pdf 3.2 on pg 4
< 1622634406 212560 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1622634412 930832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> when these topologists are informally saying "a disk" I guess they mean something quite specific
> 1622634429 875344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> where the antipodal points of the boundary are identified?
> 1622634447 105539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I can see why that is non-orientable
> 1622634450 763930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> intuitively
> 1622634494 890388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> but that detail is not stated on wikipedia
> 1622634754 394882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> thanks, that paper looks interesting -- the se question has me confused with the different commentators talking about whether D is a ball of sphere, and the qn looks like it was edited at some point, but that's par for se
> 1622634768 80051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> yeah I think the original question was mistitled
> 1622634770 539897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> so they fixed that 
> 1622634845 470189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Thanks for seeing the antipodal points thing, I was stuck in an unproductive search spiral, that looks like a detail that will help make some sense of what they meant
> 1622634969 254771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> A mobius strip is described in various places as the most simple non-orientable surface -- a standard disk sounds more simple than that, so it didn't make sense that it was non-orientable unless there was something else going on
> 1622635555 290634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> From the Zhang paper: "RP² is in essence a disk with boundary sewed diametrically."
> 1622635619 531165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83838&oldid=83831 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+73) 10Categories
> 1622636278 481567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> That se accepted answer does make sense now, and they are talking about a disk with a very specific boundary, which they are clear about, and that is homeomorphic to RP², and also non-orientable.
> 1622636352 4572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> river: thanks! That was causing me undue mental anguish, all from taking wikipedia a bit too seriously.
> 1622636528 915950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> ideally someone should fix this on wikipedia
> 1622636680 385311 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I was just trying to confirm what the correction should be "A non-orientable surface of genus zero is the projective plane." seems like the correct verison
> 1622636772 927806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83839&oldid=83823 5* 03ResU 5* (+102) 10
> 1622636967 501782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> No, that's not right, RP² is genus 1
> 1622637047 549535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83840&oldid=83839 5* 03ResU 5* (+23) 10
> 1622637759 711979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Otesunki 5*  10New user account
> 1622637944 329854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83841&oldid=83827 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+202) 10
> 1622637959 466135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83842&oldid=83818 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+2) 10The demonstration for vector lists is actually kinda wonk and incorrect
> 1622638100 660825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83843&oldid=83840 5* 03ResU 5* (-29) 10/* Hello World */
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> 1622638779 451076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I'm going to call it here: there is no "non-orientable surface of genus zero" -- non-orientable surfaces must contain a mobius strip (genus 1) , can't find a reference, but surely a lower genus surface can't contain a higher one (otherwise it would be classified with the higher n)
> 1622638933 137689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> This started off as an esolang related investigation I swear -- looking into describing a fungeoid playfield that is a n-holed torus rather than just a torus like Befunge and RASEL
> 1622639164 526456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83844&oldid=82672 5* 03ResU 5* (+90) 10
> 1622639275 184995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83845&oldid=83844 5* 03ResU 5* (+14) 10/* AEWNN */
> 1622640143 681096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83846&oldid=83721 5* 03Batata 5* (+55) 10
> 1622640159 307715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83847&oldid=83846 5* 03Batata 5* (+20) 10
> 1622640168 959036 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83848&oldid=83847 5* 03Batata 5* (+1) 10
> 1622640633 107572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest28> Just confirming the Libera official browser client is Kiwi chat. It is. Hope this hasn't messed up my existing kc stored settings.
> 1622640764 411730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> Guest28: the official browser client is https://web.libera.chat/ . I think you have to set your settings again, because it's a separate instance from the one in https://kiwiirc.com/ .
> 1622640789 315003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I imagine that was in fact the desired outcome here? 
> 1622640808 587919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (As in, not affecting the settings of the non-branded Kiwi.)
> 1622640825 903722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> If it's client-side settings, I rather imagine the web's origin-based security model is going to enforce that anyway.
> 1622640826 170678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> well, you could still use the one at https://kiwiirc.com/ since it handles connections to multiple networks together
> 1622640887 926377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> fizzie: yes, that was me. non branded kiwi settings are fine
> 1622640904 287062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The IP was a bit of a giveaway.
> 1622640920 797913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> oh yeah, that's annoying.
> 1622640934 107264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> just saw an announcement on http://subversion.apache.org/ that their official irc presence (I don't think they are actually too much present there) is on libera now
> 1622640940 202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Especially since it lined up, what with length "salpynx" == length "Guest28" and consecutive quit/join.)
> 1622640952 775325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> does the cloak thing help with that? Not that I'm that worries (it's too late anyway)
> 1622640965 355304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> nice, this one is official for esolangs now
> 1622640991 940997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Android just made no channel or network official, by removing all mention of IRC from the support page.
> 1622641018 39603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (freenode's #android-dev used to be mentioned there, though really it didn't have any *other* sort of official status except for the mention.)
> 1622641019 544242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I was wondering is there any kind of semi-reasonable paranoia justified for using the kiwiiirc given all the freenet concerns about data.
> 1622641050 580079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> freenode, it;s late, I need to stop and get some sleep soon
> 1622641145 285090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I am using https://kiwiirc.com/ , with the multinetwork settings etc
> 1622641574 50027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83849&oldid=83843 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-10) 10Header level
> 1622641797 528669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> regarding cloaks
> 1622641798 733369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> > once you're a group contact there's a channel you can get invited to and you request in there
> 1622641800 126528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:86: error: parse error on input ‘in’
> 1622642728 882453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, I got the impression that's the -community channel that got already mentioned. But I'll look into that once there's some initial list of cloaks people want. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal#Libera.Chat_community_and_cloaks / https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:IRC_cloaks for those who filter away the recent changes feed.
> 1622644211 136289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07STACKOMP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83850 5* 03MartinAsdf 5* (+15366) 10Created page with "Example STACKOMP program: (logo.sk)  v>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>v  > rstack.....v >.p..v        >  p   >OO   d    v  >Smpv v  ^ S     p<<<<<   A..."
> 1622644299 370557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MartinAsdf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83851&oldid=72772 5* 03MartinAsdf 5* (+24) 10added stackomp
> 1622644788 899019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MartinAsdf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83852&oldid=83851 5* 03MartinAsdf 5* (+20) 10
> 1622645473 685573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SIMPLE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83853&oldid=65700 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+259) 10Acronym
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> 1622648380 716131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83854&oldid=83838 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+47) 10/* Returning data */
> 1622648550 188887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83855&oldid=83854 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+0) 10/* Variables */
> 1622648579 478046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83856&oldid=83855 5* 03Goglesq 5* (-151) 10
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> 1622653055 646275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tech Support Scam14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83858 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (+3166) 10Created page with "Tech Support Scam is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:CatCatDeluxe]] where it sounds vaguely like you are on a phone call with a tech support scammer.  Punct..."
> 1622653139 645257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CatCatDeluxe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83859&oldid=83468 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (+28) 10
> 1622655962 784930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83860&oldid=83849 5* 03ResU 5* (+278) 10
> 1622656101 917280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83861&oldid=83860 5* 03ResU 5* (+2) 10/* Cat program */
> 1622656597 858644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83862&oldid=83861 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-14) 10/* Cat program */ Use pre tag
> 1622656671 801157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AEWNN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83863&oldid=83862 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-3) 10/* Cat program */ /* Quine */ Isn't this really a quine?
> 1622657215 1977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I want to make nothing up my sleeve number by sufficiently old texts, such as "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog". What other possibilities might there be?
> 1622657727 275105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Decimals extracted from famous constants (pi, e) are kind of the conventional ones, aren't they? 
> 1622657781 782885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i dont like nothing up my sleeve numbers
> 1622657793 315746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> If you want to specifically make it from well-known pieces of text... hmm, the ones that come to mind first are kind of political or religious, which you might want to avoid for obvious reasons.
> 1622658110 302743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> How about: "Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul."
> 1622658182 879339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> cd: not Alice I think, it doesn't have one canonical edition that you can get the text from I think
> 1622658184 360639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> If you need a nothing-up-your-sleeve number for an Esolang article, something about the matrix of solidity would also work.
> 1622658195 657954 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> the same is the problem with Shakespeare or Vergilius probably
> 1622658281 95655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> mathematical constants are probably better in that it's less likely that someone a few decades from now will suddenly decide that your now completely innocious text is very offensive to them and all references to it should be purged from cryptographic protocols
> 1622658408 928722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and it's not easy to find anything old enough and widely distributed while still having one canonical version, unless it's something sacred like the Torah
> 1622658494 165436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Another nothing-up-your-sleeve source might be something that's a matter of the public record, like past Dow Jones Industrial Average values used for geohashing.
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> 1622659196 57570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> how about the dates of eclipses
> 1622659242 910484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> keegan: the problem is that for anything involving cryptography, you need to know an exact value, not an approximate real, and it's not clear that exact numerical values of eclipses are canonical
> 1622659265 668028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or that you can always round them that way and don't get eclipses that happen close to where your rounding would flip a bit
> 1622659286 411002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> also they're sort of periodical which might be bad
> 1622659313 69990 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I still the use of like fractional parts of square roots of the first primes for crypto protocols
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> 1622663098 866493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83864&oldid=77847 5* 03Jedgrei 5* (-30) 10
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> 1622664200 122805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> the old testament can be used as a number and has an established text-to-numer conversion
> 1622664296 171166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And of course doesn't fall into the "kind of political or religious" category at all.
> 1622664389 447741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> hmm... I guess Greek also has established sufficiently-old numerical values for letters, so you could use e.g. the  iliad
> 1622664488 964552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> tfw your cryptographic algorithm accidentally generates the true name of god
> 1622664627 621072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oren: yes, and the greek vs hebrew numbers are mostly the same for corresponding letters too
> 1622664627 799298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Is that an Unsong reference or something? 
> 1622664970 84726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> is there any French on this channel?
> 1622665146 74343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> n-holed torus funge field sounds crazy ..D
> 1622665820 518560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> fizzie: no it's vaguely a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film)
> 1622665956 748389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> hey #esoteric community. someone recommended me the "uMatrix" plugin for Firefox browser. apparently this is similar in purpose to the NoScript plugin which I'm already using, in that it lets me configure with whatlists what scripts or other fancy webshit content webpages are allowed to load. do you have any experience with this "uMatrix" plugin, and can tell me about it, especially that one non-obvious 
> 1622665962 755197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> hint that will save me days of suffering if I know it in advance?
> 1622666810 236317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> looks good so far. there'll be some setup period, but that's normal for this kind of thing.
> 1622666863 29371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I have not had experience with it. Does it allow scripts and stuff to be substituted, or only blocked? What about headers? (I do have an extension to deal with headers, but making it a core part of the program dealing with sending requests and retrieving responses might be better; it can extend to any protocol and allow more to be added too.)
> 1622666905 819113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> uBlock Origin FTW
> 1622667053 6406 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it seems it only lets you allow or block stuff, not substituted, except possibly for the Referer, but how it differs from noscript seems to be that you can allow/block based on the pair of the domain of the main webpage and the domain of the requested resource, rather than only based on the requested resource like noscript does. which means I can tell it to forbid the giantitp.com forum to block loading 
> 1622667059 61287 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> any off-site images, because it's a stupid forum that lets any poster embed externally hosted images to their posts. and then I can override that for images loaded from particular domains.
> 1622667123 655239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and on the forum, those images will still be in the document tree and show up an empty rectangle, so I can load any one image by clicking on "view image", which makes that the main webpage, and images are allowed in general for most webpages in the default config
> 1622667150 645650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: as for headers, it can specifically control cookies, and has something about Referer, I don't know about other headers
> 1622667228 83031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: the cookies are allowed or blocked based on combination of the domain of main website loaded on the tab and the domain of the nested request where the cookies would be sent
> 1622667284 685010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I like it so far, but I'll of course I may encounter problems weeks into browsing with it when visiting some particular website 
> 1622667424 237878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Adding the user rules of headers into the core system can also define a uniform interface for setting language, do-not-track, cookies, etc.
> 1622667478 490574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there are still a few things for which I'd like a plugin (or an option in this plugin). namely firefox has a global option where it can forbid webpages to set font faces except to the four user-controllable ones (default, serif, sans-serif, monospaced), which is nice and I use it (it doesn't *quite* work as it should, if my choice of font lacks characters it will use whatever the webpage chose as a 
> 1622667482 763045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> For setting cookies you might also want cookies to be allowed or blocked based on their name and/or value as well, and possibly on path, not only by the domain. You might also want to override the expiry of cookies, or possibly also the values of cookies.
> 1622667484 504771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fallback font, but this is rarely relevant), but I'd like to be able to whitelist font faces per domain too
> 1622667502 572232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "giantitp.com forum" sounds like giant tit
> 1622667511 305348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I would like to be able to whitelist font faces per MIME type of the document that uses the fonts.
> 1622667517 716234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and I'd like something like that for line-spacing too rather than font-face. a lot of webpages could be made better if the browser just ignored line-spacing declared in CSS everywhere.
> 1622667588 515725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, I also; it is one of the things that my idea of "meta-CSS" would allow to do.
> 1622667613 206095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and I know I can override the individual CSS rules, and I sometimes do that, but it would be easier to just ignore the website's idea about the font-face or line-spacing (or whatever those are actually called) property no matter how it's set
> 1622667641 212628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> now I'll visit some of my more frequently visited websites so I can set up settings for them
> 1622667759 809655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (Meta-CSS would allow to change the definition of CSS properties, including conditionally based on the selectors and other properties.)
> 1622667800 705493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83866 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+1393) 10Created page with "'''Nevermind''' is a simplistic programming language made by [[User:OfficialCraftCGame|CraftCGame]] in 2021. It uses commas ('','') to separate arguments. There is no escape c..."
> 1622667895 577310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> one difficulty is that, just like noscript, if a webpage immediately redirects to another domain (usually via javascript but the principle is the same if it's a HTTP redirect), it's not easy to see what was allowed/blocked in the page that did the redirect, even though that's where you would have to change the permissions
> 1622667897 839684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Another of my idea is a nwe !priority CSS command that can only be specified by the end user (not by documents), which is another way to glboally override CSS even if !important is specified; you have to write !priority(0) or !priority(255) or whatever to set it.
> 1622667924 340429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83867&oldid=83828 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+16) 10Added language "Nevermind" into the list
> 1622667950 710256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, I know of that, and a solution (when it is a HTTP redirect) could be to record the chain of redirects and other requests so that they can be viewed later.
> 1622667995 144816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (Firefox will record the requests but only if the appropriate web developer window is open.)
> 1622668017 776420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: that's not really enough, !important already does most of what you want in that !important in user styles are higher priority than !important in page styles,
> 1622668036 98212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83868&oldid=83866 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-8) 10Changed the caption text in the table at the "Functions" section
> 1622668149 882093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> hmm wait. specificity of css selectors have a total order, right? is there a way to write a selector that fakes to be more specific than almost any other selector, including id selectors, but still can match whatever I want, including all elements if I choose so? if that's possible with css, I could use that to override font-face or line-spacing on a whole webpage
> 1622668155 46151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> b_jonas: That is true, although there is still the priority by how specific the selector is. Also, in some cases you might want to be lower priority than page styles instead.
> 1622668169 781408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> well, except I'm not sure if it could override the style attribute of the element too
> 1622668230 974574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> That too
> 1622668255 969601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83869&oldid=83868 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+70) 10/* Truth Machine */ Cats
> 1622668602 555576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> use Stylebot extension to override styles
> 1622668694 690326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> what I'd also like is to link multiple website domains together so they're controlled by the same rules
> 1622669317 999610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> You might want to match more of the URL than just the domain, too.
> 1622669512 642230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: yes, there are some rare cases like taht
> 1622669526 75149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I do remember a few
> 1622669920 869123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm, I wonder if it's worth it to enable the `chghost` capability for the logger bot, and format those messages appropriately. Guess the question is, is the simulated "Changing hostname" QUIT-and-JOIN the canonical truth or not.
> 1622670449 320194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<dutch> b_jonas: (didn't read entire backlog) uMatrix is great, but unfortunately gorhill has stopped development.  See https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix
> 1622670605 669166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> dutch: thanks
> 1622671131 942082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/i240ds/request_for_a_stable_umatrix_release_for_cname/g048wyk/
> 1622671454 872442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> `unidecode ∇
> 1622671456 227810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+2207 NABLA]
> 1622671467 950112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> `unidecode ∆
> 1622671468 930969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+2206 INCREMENT]
> 1622671470 560118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> hmm
> 1622671530 638932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> a nable is conceptually an inverted delta, not an inverted increment
> 1622671537 900666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> so why isn't there a decrement operator in Unicode?
> 1622671693 332603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> int-e: I mostly follow the channel by logreading rather than idling
> 1622671735 940616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: I find it funny that you are mostly logreading but join to use HackEso's unidecode command of all things
> 1622671793 150885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but I understand you only did it to make a point to us
> 1622671868 36383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the other way round, actually, I was using it to *discover* that point
> 1622671880 228404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> after going through two character map applications and discovering them to both be useless
> 1622671886 466328 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> then I started complaining, once I learned what the reality was
> 1622671901 107509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> <wib_jonas> do we know who runs the tunes.org logs and whether they could join the bot here? ← I believe that their tunes username is part of the URL
> 1622671959 920404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think those two triangles are a bit weird, anyway. Because ∆ is also ∇². So they're kind of related.
> 1622671969 765886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> int-e: but a delta is a different codepoint entirely
> 1622671988 460230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> `unidecode Δ
> 1622671989 382133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+0394 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER DELTA]
> 1622671999 47877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> hmm
> 1622672005 339870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I think of a nabla as being an upside-down Greek delta
> 1622672007 150779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> but maybe it isn't?
> 1622672043 566723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Just to add to the confusion, ∇ is also called "del".
> 1622672071 710144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> anyway, the question is, I have an esolang which could plausibly use ∆ as one of the spellings of the increment operator
> 1622672086 968642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> should it have a corresponding spellng for the decrement operator? and if so, should it be a nabla?
> 1622672116 616463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it is remarkably difficult to name an increment operator unambiguously
> 1622672120 552220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think *if* you're going to use a pair, ∇∆ is that pair, and don't get delta-the-letter involved.
> 1622672127 50469 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I may have to resort to "+=1" and "increment"
> 1622672173 201449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> gucharmap's notes say "U+2207 NABLA = backward difference; gradient, del * used for Laplacian operator (written with superscript 2)" and "U+2206 INCREMENT = Laplace operator; forward difference; symmetric difference (in set theory) * other symbols may also be used for symmetric difference".
> 1622672180 134913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I've always wondered where those extra notes are from.
> 1622672216 515002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> oh, I actually have a defined policy about these things, and if it also means "symmetric difference" (which is also a real function) it gets disallowed
> 1622672234 833450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (As in, are the notes also part of the Unicode standard / code charts or not.)
> 1622672247 954395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> that makes things much easier
> 1622672263 898477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> <int-e> also distinct from the river thing
> 1622672264 311968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Apparently they are, judging from https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2200.pdf
> 1622672267 1460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> what thing?
> 1622672277 495814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 1. (1) delta -- (a low triangular area of alluvial deposits where a river divides before entering a larger body of water; "the Mississippi River delta"; "the Nile delta")
> 1622672282 409363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> Aha lol
> 1622672291 158430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> also, thank you for telling me what gucharmap is called, now I have an actually viable character map program :-)
> 1622672293 309854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> (it's still in the repos)
> 1622672340 452741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `unidecode △▽
> 1622672341 456727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+25B3 WHITE UP-POINTING TRIANGLE] [U+25BD WHITE DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE]
> 1622672344 507315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> they look subtly different in my font too, but it's very subtle
> 1622672351 416235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the second one is a pixel taller, I think
> 1622672353 66353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: I thought the Delta as used for ∇² was just a greek Delta used in this meaning. I don't really understand why there's a separate ∆ character for it, and probably wouldn't use it. but apparently I do have a glyph for the ∆ character in my font, which is odd because it still has too few of these math glyphs, I should add some more.
> 1622672365 118239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> You could go with the WHITE UP-POINTING TRIANGLE and the WHITE DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE, those don't seem to have any semantic baggage.
> 1622672388 32946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> well, one of my aims is for the language to be fast to program in and easy to read
> 1622672404 993747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> so I support a lot of possible names for the builtins, then normalize them into something that looks better
> 1622672407 220546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> e.g. * becoming ×
> 1622672431 318552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> but it seems like increment/decrement don't have any more readable and unambiguous way to write them than "increment" and "decrement"
> 1622672466 240556 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `unidecode Δ∆△🛆🜂
> 1622672466 783857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> "+=1", "-=1" are also clear, but you have issues like "++" meaning append in some languages, or "--" being a comment marker
> 1622672467 960171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+0394 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER DELTA] [U+2206 INCREMENT] [U+25B3 WHITE UP-POINTING TRIANGLE] [U+1F6C6 TRIANGLE WITH ROUNDED CORNERS] [U+1F702 ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR FIRE]
> 1622672473 15654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and "+1" and "-1" look like integers
> 1622672500 130134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> maybe I should just go for "inc" and "dec", although even "dec" looks like "decimal"
> 1622672542 439845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> All those five look pretty alike in my browser: https://zem.fi/tmp/tri.png
> 1622672568 236741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> well, they're obviously all different, but all triangles in a similar orientation
> 1622672580 402223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/Gh3jd4K.png
> 1622672635 652648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: "+=1" and "-=1" look good to me, people are already used to it because that's how you write in-place increment in python and some other languages
> 1622672664 908932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> though I'd usually write " += 1" but the spaces clearly have no semantic value there
> 1622672743 967309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm, interesting. When I use `scrot` to take a screenshot, it renders pixel-perfect in a "dumb" image viewer (say, sxiv), but it's very messily scaled when the same file is opened in a browser, even when the zoom level is set to 100%.
> 1622672749 206973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I'm guessing maybe scrot writes the display DPI into the PNG metadata somewhere, and then the browser tries to "correct" it for the physical size, and they disagree about that.
> 1622672784 89982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> b_jonas: the spacing is important in this language, it tokenizes on spaces
> 1622672796 135210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and it's semi-important for a user to know where the token boundaries are
> 1622672807 37276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: yes, but here it's between tokens
> 1622672816 582030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> spaces inside tokens are important of course, that happens in many languages
> 1622672820 969437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> well, increment is a single token in this language, even if it's two in Python
> 1622672823 53417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Is there a `pdfinfo` equivalent for PNG files?)
> 1622672868 994286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> fizzie: `less` works for basic info, as does `file`
> 1622672890 317647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> apparently there's a pnginfo in the Ubuntu repositories
> 1622672892 750884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> imagemagick's `identify` command says "PNG 158x41 158x41+0+0 8-bit sRGB 1389B 0.000u 0:00.000".
> 1622672916 42090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 01--
> 1622672930 679192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> huh, is sRGB there a color space or specification of which color channels exist or both?
> 1622672954 22448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: maybe exiftool? I don't know what pdfinfo does. or ImageMagick's identify with specific parameters such as -verbose to print everything. 
> 1622672959 918150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: is there something specific you want to extract?
> 1622673017 558680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Whether there's something encoded about the physical size / resolution. But the `pnginfo` tool from the `pngtools` package says "Resolution: 0, 0 (unit unknown)".
> 1622673027 269921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> So I'm not sure why Chrome would display it scaled.
> 1622673041 947728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> maybe because the resolution info is invalid?
> 1622673043 279137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> if you want to see everything, I recommend (identify -verbose "$filename"; exiftool -G2 "$filename";) to see everything, 
> 1622673056 288723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> which file are you talking about?
> 1622673058 221384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> then once you find out what you want, there's a way to restrict either of those tools to print only that one thing
> 1622673059 880648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I guess maybe it's going "hmm, this image has no specified resolution, I'm going to guess 72 dpi" and then "hmm, this resolution doesn't match the screen DPI, I must scale it to present it in the right physical size".
> 1622673090 69079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, https://zem.fi/tmp/tri2.png in this case.
> 1622673114 578154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> hmm, both my Chromium and my Firefox sem to handle it correctly
> 1622673144 669382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon>   pixelWidth: 158 pixelHeight: 41 typeIdentifier: public.png format: png formatOptions: default dpiWidth: 72.000 dpiHeight: 72.000 samplesPerPixel: 3 bitsPerSample: 8 hasAlpha: no space: RGB
> 1622673145 188988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Maybe it's a new Chrome thing. I don't think I've seen it before at home, but my work Chrome has been persistently doing something weird around those lines.
> 1622673190 808638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> b_jonas: Thanks for `identify -verbose`. I tried `-h` and `--help`, and when neither provided useful output, stopped guessing.
< 1622673197 482634 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1622673207 753906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Seems like I should've gone with `-help`.
> 1622673212 908950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> sometimes programs give useful information if you run them with no args at all
> 1622673215 419357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> But single-dash long options just feel a little weird.
> 1622673227 103190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ...oh, that would have worked too.
> 1622673235 551299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and there will often (but not always) be a man page, too
> 1622673250 651417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: also in general for media files, you can also try (ffprobe -of flat -show_format -show_streams "$file";) but for a png file it's unlikely to tell anything that identify and exiftool doesn't show.
> 1622673263 202747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I think my usual convention for usage information is "provide a man page, give usage information on --help or if there's an invalid argument, also give usage information if run with no arguments and that doesn't otherwise make sense for the program"
> 1622673299 810332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: (identify;) without arguments works for the help, but you may have to look at HTML manuals too and even then you won't easily find all info about ImageMagick
> 1622673333 877884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> hmm, i initially interpreted "HTML manuals" as manuals about HTML, rather than manuals formatted using HTML
> 1622673347 143115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: wait, I forgot an important one
> 1622673360 14208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> English can be so ambiguous sometimes, that's one of the reasons to create esolangs
> 1622673386 638245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> width: 158 height: 41 bands: 3 format: uchar coding: none interpretation: srgb xoffset: 0 yoffset: 0 xres: 2.83465 yres: 2.83465
> 1622673392 612569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: there was a specific tool for pngs that you can use to redo the compression or losslessly crop at block boundaries without redoing the fourier transform and quantization
> 1622673395 875847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> let me find it
> 1622673402 718232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Eyeballing the sizes (between sxiv and Chrome), I don't think it's quite "assume 72 dpi, scale to adjust to correct physical size given the 104 dpi screen density" level weird. But it's doing *something* odd.
> 1622673402 807186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and that same library had an info tool
> 1622673419 406068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/tri3.png shows both side-by-side (sxiv left, Chrome right).
> 1622673455 6967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (The left side should have no antialiasing/scaling going on.)
> 1622673470 924315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: pngtools debian package, (pnginfo "*.png";) 
> 1622673489 83177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the above outputs were from sips and vips
> 1622673509 994331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> probably also won't tell you anything that exiftool doesn't, but the pngtools package is worth knowing in general
> 1622673540 293541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> b_jonas: why do you use "(…;)" to quote shell commands on IRC?
> 1622673548 205932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: no, I usually omit the semicolon
> 1622673554 826405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I don't think real shells need the semicolon
> 1622673559 123799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but I do use parenthesis to quote shell commands often, even on irc
> 1622673580 276056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> parenthesis are nice because they work this way in both shell and cmd, so I can quote either kind of command with them
> 1622673584 855444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> ah, I see
> 1622673585 925408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Turing Machine But Way Worse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83870&oldid=79860 5* 03MilkyWay90 5* (+199) 10
> 1622673598 453833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> although in sh-alikes it's more than just a quote, it runs the command in a new subshell
> 1622673602 560875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and shell commands often have other kinds of quotes or weird characters in them
> 1622673622 473074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> yes
> 1622673625 309250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: yes, you have to put a function header before them like f() if you want to quote the contents as a shell command
> 1622673633 668153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I've taken to using «» for quoting code (including shell commands)
> 1622673642 719871 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> although even that doesn't work for some languages, like Perl 6 and Jelly
> 1622673693 768062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> that might work, but the problem with them is that there are both french-style «..» quotes and german-style »..« quotes which can make any use confusing
> 1622673715 379339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (and yes, the french-style would technically be « .. » because they put spaces inside
> 1622673731 997118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> »..« looks like a confusion sign
> 1622673734 445486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> which makes it even harder to tell if it's a starting or ending quote character, there's a space on both sides)
> 1622673791 281128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there's probably no nice way to quote any programming language, but you can often find a natural style for any particular language
> 1622673807 917730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Weird. It's just doing the wrong thing throughout. Even in the devtools inspector thing, if I look at a preview of the response, it does the bad scaling. (Okay, stands to reason it'd use the same code to render images. But still.)
> 1622673827 876300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Chromium does the same.)
> 1622673841 854228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Firefox doesn't.)
> 1622673844 902205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: you could try to extract the image with some other tool and reencode it 
> 1622673855 956872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or is this something you want to debug to fix?
> 1622673895 802583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> when I need to do a screenshot with details I drag the window to retina display
> 1622673908 72810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> if I do screenshot on a usual one it's blurred
> 1622673920 313793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I mean, it has lower resolution
> 1622673924 431607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, preferably I'd like it fixed. But I'm not sure how much effort I want to dedicate to it.
> 1622674188 926618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Looking at an entirely different image that does have a set resolution (a pretty arbitrary one, 38.98x38.58 PixelsPerCentimeter), it's being scaled too. So maybe it *is* just assuming a resolution for the first PNG (just not 72; maybe it's been upgraded to default to 96 or something) and then trying to present it with the "physical" size. But I'd really rather it just render the pixels at 1:1 size.
> 1622674241 301489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: I think Gimp has an option to do either for its zoom levels
> 1622674261 847046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: is this a standalone PNG in the tab, or inside a HTML?
> 1622674287 533104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> A standalone PNG in a tab. But it does the same if I just do a minimal HTML wrapper, <body><img src="tri3.png" /></body>.
> 1622674306 537843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OfficialCraftCGame14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83871&oldid=83814 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+14) 10
> 1622674351 470267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ok. I imagine the two can differ.
> 1622674364 713111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> well, could
> 1622674369 895283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> If I slap a style="image-rendering: pixelated;" on it, it still maintains the scaling, just does the nearest-neighbor thing.
> 1622674460 505202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> because HTML has its own odd rules about images that are partly inherited from multiple decade long tradition of netscape/mozilla/firefox emulating msie, then chrome or opera or safari emulating mozilla, then edge emulating everything else again etc
> 1622674549 368059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and then a growing set of extensions, including this new one that lets you give multiple image sources of which the browser chooses one depending on what resolution the image will be displayed in which can depend on whether you're using a high resolution monitor that has two pixels for every traditional pixel measured in a webpage, which is a nice extension but its syntax is seriously messed up in a way 
> 1622674555 535532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you think people would have learned not to do anymore when adding features to HTML
> 1622674659 276493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Even if I render it as the page background with style="background-image: url('tri3.png');", it's still scaled. And not in Firefox. Odd.
> 1622674835 411158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And the exact same thing happens to something like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Png_pixel_cube.png -- the image as viewed in Firefox is rendered "naturally", but the one in Chrome is scaled by... 69/64.
> 1622674853 575553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: make sure this isn't just caused by some unusual setting or plugin that you set in those browsers 
> 1622674911 748129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> If it is, I don't know what setting it could be. The Chromium one definitely should be pretty vanilla.
> 1622674921 891314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Also some servers will try to force you to download the picture instead of displaying it, although I can usually force it to display it in the browser by entering a data: URI
> 1622674931 539880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> My "desktop environment", on the other hand, might be more uncommon, though.
> 1622674970 617332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> What desktop environment is that?
> 1622675073 97371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, it's no specific one. It's just Xmonad as a window manager, and some bits and pieces of GTK+ thing.
> 1622675076 979189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (Also, I don't have the problem with wrong scaling on the browser)
> 1622675090 26770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what do you mean scaled by 69/64? distorted the aspect ratio?
> 1622675115 535809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> No, just uniformly scaled.
> 1622675126 467645 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The image itself is 64x64 pixels, but it's rendered as 69x69.
> 1622675149 387298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ah
> 1622675217 207465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> renders as 64 and 128 for me
> 1622675233 705369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I did a chrome://flags + "reset all" just to be sure, so it shouldn't be a manually enabled weird setting either.
> 1622675261 262883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> make sure to do ctrl +/- until it says 100%
> 1622675289 459782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> no
> 1622675304 749374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ctrl-0 resets to your settings default that can be different
> 1622675316 333511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's been 100% the whole time.
> 1622675338 669859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I use a program I wrote by myself to take screenshots. (They don't have as many options as scrot, because other programs can be used for many of the things. However, one option that perhaps should be added is the option to control if the mouse cursor is captured; scrot does have that option.)
> 1622675610 249011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Just verified that it's not a PNG-specific problem. Opening a (data URI that encodes a) 222x227 pixel JPEG file renders a rectangle that's exactly 222x227 pixels in Firefox, but 239x245 in Chromium.
> 1622675714 763891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I can't believe it's intentional, I think it must be some kind of a bug. But not an obvious one to track down.
> 1622675741 599572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83872&oldid=83867 5* 03ResU 5* (+12) 10Added AEWNN
> 1622675797 314104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm.
> 1622675811 113048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I started chromium with --force-device-scale-factor=1 and it stopped scaling.
> 1622675819 648991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> So I guess you might be right in that.
> 1622675822 203993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> basically retina is just doubling the resolution
> 1622675835 186859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and disables font antialiasing
> 1622675849 25825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or whatever it's called
> 1622675867 394460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's just that, I don't think it makes sense to do scaling like that when the display depth is so close.
> 1622675895 685907 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> s/depth/density/
> 1622675911 120221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, for now I'll just stick that flag onto my list.
> 1622675948 29410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Oh, I guess another alternative would be to just make the display resolution lie.
> 1622675963 793547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> But maybe it's convenient to be actually able to approximate physical sizes in Gimp or whatnot.
> 1622676000 726125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> btw, recently Chrome started showing everything smaller for me both on Windows and macOS
> 1622676146 652827 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83873&oldid=83872 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (+24) 10
> 1622678030 684301 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth Machine (esolang)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83874 5* 03ResU 5* (+587) 10Created page with "'''Truth Machine''' is an esolang created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. [[Category:2021]][[Category:Languages]] ==Commands== {| class=wikitable !Cmd !Description |- |<code>input(a..."
> 1622678101 610433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03ResU 5*  10moved [[02Truth Machine (esolang)10]] to [[Truth Machine (language)]]
> 1622678111 855728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, the GTK UI does `resolution / 96` as the scale factor, and then rounds it to the nearest 1/64th, meaning my 104/96 rounds to exactly 69/64. Or something along those lines. https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:ui/gtk/gtk_ui.cc;l=1085;drc=71ce45f2f742ca6449749a906ce5bb9948c8b555
> 1622678117 167238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It doesn't seem to have changed recently, but maybe what has changed is how universally fractional scaling factors are applied to images, or something. Because while --force-device-scale-factor=1 does solve the ugly image scaling, everything *else* does look a little smaller now than I'm used to. But maybe it's not really logically consistent to scale text and other scalable things while keeping images 
> 1622678123 233655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> unscaled.
> 1622678138 423846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Maybe I'll just get used to the smaller size.
> 1622678565 211198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83877&oldid=83825 5* 03ResU 5* (+49) 10
> 1622680522 478019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth Machine (language)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83878&oldid=83875 5* 03ResU 5* (+133) 10
> 1622680729 297168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> resizing glitches you say... https://files.gitter.im/5773fad8c2f0db084a20979b/YUho/image.png
> 1622681478 231920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Not that I remember, no. But any sort of confusion/bug in the init could presumably do it. The timeout isn't external, as I recall, but handled with signals in init.
> 1622681622 788756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Though the only problems with init and its configuration that I remember are the ubd padding issues, which have been sorted all the way back in ceb910f.
> 1622681847 660804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> damn clever thing the guy made https://github.com/kojix2/YouPlot
> 1622681883 551576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I've been using the unicode_plot library for a while, but he made a gem with ./bin making all sorts of STDIN parsers he would want to
> 1622681917 483892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so you don't need to write ruby code to use unicode_plot lib now
> 1622682026 301195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Clpb 5*  10New user account
> 1622682058 728042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> he could ask to add the binary to unicode_plot gem but it would need him to make test, debate on style and the unicode_plot's maintainer idea to have API "same as in julia" for idk why
> 1622682078 349932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> instead he's making the binary independently
> 1622682178 132578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> btw I don't like that the common directly and name for these is ./bin because they are not necessary binary files -- would be better to have them in ./exe I guess but I didn't see such standard
> 1622682407 767079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's what "bin" means: executables.
> 1622682536 183021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83879&oldid=83841 5* 03Clpb 5* (+161) 10Just added a short text about me so I can use the rest of the wiki
> 1622682665 996953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://0x0.st/-_-p.txt <- a lot of non-"binary" files too. Also, a great filename, got lucky there.
> 1622682792 890856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what does that sed do?
> 1622682826 485280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Just an ad-hoc filter to get rid of all the boring cruft in "..., dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, BuildID[sha1]=d146dbe9a8ea08382b6c63ee7d0ebeb151f2ced3, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, stripped".
> 1622682844 105074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Especially the BuildID, of course.
> 1622682868 564222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hm, for some files the file prints me too much
> 1622682895 724624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Probably a slightly different output format then. I just picked something that worked for me.
> 1622682896 276572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://dpaste.org/RjJc/slim
> 1622682918 120325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I guess this file just has three versions in it
> 1622682936 51076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, don't have to worry about "fat" binaries on this system.
> 1622682937 583331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> damn I thought this thing is gone when macOS removed the power9 support
> 1622683018 694370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> In retrospect, `file --mime-type --brief` would've been an easier way to sanitize: https://0x0.st/-_-f.txt
> 1622683071 845089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Besides, aren't you going to start getting all these x86-64/AArch64 multi-binaries next?)
> 1622683184 139509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> man, they really screwed up by not calling the 64-bit arm architecture "leg"
> 1622683188 136006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> cd yeah I may confuse them -- didn't work with them either
> 1622683209 848169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think "leg" was being used for something though? 
> 1622683294 282933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Not exactly easy to search for with everyone writing these "cost you an ARM and a leg" pun titles.
> 1622683372 92823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Maybe there wasn't anything, or at least anything too relevant, and I just imagined it.
> 1622683476 404697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Oh, right, I think I'm thinking of that LLVM toy example that was just like an ARM subset, https://llvm.org/devmtg/2014-10/Slides/Cormack-BuildingAnLLVMBackend.pdf
> 1622683511 403268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://github.com/frasercrmck/llvm-leg
> 1622683536 859523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Doesn't exactly fit the "a bigger ARM" context though.
> 1622683559 865136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> StrongARM was an actual thing though.
> 1622683634 880497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and "thumb" of course
> 1622683655 169068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Something something middle finger pun.
< 1622683830 356427 :LdDIyJhJowY!~LdDIyJhJo@139.135.60.47 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622683830 508608 :LdDIyJhJowY!~LdDIyJhJo@139.135.60.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is exaActly the siutuationq DXisEcFIerreit hasG found itselfq ins.t Wge HwerRe bridginYg ltoZ guarkantee a smooyth transition..d.C wigthiEn hGoursP ofr cShkangDinng the topicr tQo point Sto the neOwR chat, theyg toPok Dover oXur channekls.j
< 1622683830 508727 :LdDIyJhJowY!~LdDIyJhJo@139.135.60.47 PART :#esoteric
> 1622683870 692301 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Heh, been a while since the last piece of forwarded spam.
> 1622683903 484990 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> lol
> 1622683906 669735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> wut in tarnation
> 1622683921 751869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Clearly a bad siutuationq.
> 1622684039 119374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> 
ACTION scratches her head

> 1622684071 774163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Looks like SCP-3125.
> 1622684105 939524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I can get something intelligible out of all the other words by only deleting letters, with the exception of "DXisEcFIerreit".
< 1622684128 162395 :xKkPIopn!~xKkPIopn@mx-ll-223.206.128-11.dynamic.3bb.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622684128 271925 :xKkPIopn!~xKkPIopn@mx-ll-223.206.128-11.dynamic.3bb.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew ULee likeKs wsuckingF hot asiarn Zguy's diAcks and has haH jcchkode hiumeseDlf.
< 1622684128 272089 :xKkPIopn!~xKkPIopn@mx-ll-223.206.128-11.dynamic.3bb.co.th PART :#esoteric
> 1622684159 51829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm.
< 1622684172 220791 :KMNhVsyh!~KMNhVsyh@179.157.6.66 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622684172 220851 :KMNhVsyh!~KMNhVsyh@179.157.6.66 PART :#esoteric
> 1622684194 652413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Feel free to do "brctl: ignore freenode/*" if you want to stop that from doing anything in that direction.
< 1622684271 309685 :QJumDgxQzK!~QJumDgxQz@cpe-98-149-32-141.natmtn.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1622684271 309759 :QJumDgxQzK!~QJumDgxQz@cpe-98-149-32-141.natmtn.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric
> 1622684293 100203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> As for "DXisEcFIerreit", maybe that's "Disc..." something. "DiscFerret"? netsplit.de says #discferret was a channel over on the other network.
> 1622684333 359604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon>    1 /usr/bin/ex (for architecture x86_64):	Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
> 1622684333 553006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon>    1 /usr/bin/ex (for architecture arm64e):	Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64e
> 1622684339 754746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> int-e: Ah.
> 1622684353 616320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this is how arm looks like
> 1622684498 588248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There's been two other similarly jumbled-up nicknames joining and subsequently parting, but they've not said anything.
> 1622684519 110332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I might +q $~a over on the other side maybe.
> 1622684527 62381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hard to say if it's likely to get any worse or not.
> 1622684696 139140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://dpaste.org/fCzA/slim
> 1622684972 798785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you have 10 times more ruby executables than I do lol
> 1622685036 462642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> maybe they are hidden by rbenv shims
> 1622687352 135786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> fungot are you going to update your esoteric language?
> 1622687352 432125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> nakilon: but, we are far outnumbered! that frog made the epoch, your wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
> 1622687397 928059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> positive ending
> 1622694768 952257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<iovoid21> ⧸!\ TΗIᏚ СНᎪNNᎬᒪ ΗAS ϺOVЕᎠ TO IᎡC․LIBΕᎡA．CHAΤ ＃HAΜᖇADІO ／︕⧵
> 1622694769 776257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<iovoid21> /！\ THE JΕWS ᕼΑVЕ TAKEΝ OᏙЕR FᖇEᎬNODΕ, CHATS HАVE MОᏙΕᎠ ТO ⅠRⲤ․ᒪІВЕᎡA.CᕼAT ⧸！\
> 1622694770 829393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<iovoid21> /!﹨ JOIⲚ ＃НᎪΜRADΙO TODΑY. TΗІS CዘАΝNΕⅬ ᕼAS ΜⲞVED ΤO IᎡС．LΙBΕᎡA．ᏟᎻΑT ＃HᎪMRΑDΙО /！\
> 1622694775 289045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<iovoid21> TዘΙЅ OFFIᏟІᎪLᏞⲨ EⲚᗪORSEⅮ MΕSSAᏀᎬ ᎳᎪS ⲂᖇⲞUԌΗТ ᎢO YⲞU BY ᏞIBEᖇᎪ․ϹᕼAᎢ STAᖴᖴ
> 1622694789 210372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sknebel> oh ffs
> 1622694828 223420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<dioxide> ∕!\ TⲎΙЅ CHΑNNΕL ΗAS ϺОVEᗪ ᎢO IRC．LΙBEᏒA.CHAΤ ＃HAᎷᎡΑDΙO /!⧹
> 1622695513 602444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83880&oldid=83869 5* 03Bangyen 5* (+103) 10
> 1622695526 542396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83881&oldid=83880 5* 03Bangyen 5* (-2) 10
> 1622696184 99510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> just noticed, Chrome added features to "autodelete cookies after you close specific website" and "fully disallow cookies on specific websites [including third-party cookies]"
> 1622696211 612873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> added FB and IG there instantly
> 1622698177 38194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> In C, can I prevent global variables that I am not using from taking up memory?
> 1622698212 419991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> the linker should remove unused stuff
> 1622698218 962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> not sure if that requries -fdata-sections
> 1622698219 237879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (without dynamic allocation)
> 1622698245 85222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83882 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+4173) 10document lofty goals for a fungeoid playing with dimensionality
> 1622698245 346922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> zzo38: global variables in C are statically allocated, so the memory for them will be reserved right from the start of the program
> 1622698249 308745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Actually I mean it might not be known until run time, and sometimes the variables might be used only for part of the execution and then it is finished with it, or it doesn't need it at the start but does use it later
> 1622698280 781172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> however, if they're on a page that's all zeroes, most OSes won't actually allocate the page until you assign to one of them, so only the address space is allocated, not the physical memory
> 1622698293 4824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> if you are on a system with virtual memory, yes
> 1622698305 245155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> right
> 1622698315 452687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Well, I am using Linux so I think that it does have virtual memory
> 1622698318 923995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> if you're programming a microcontroller then that doesn't help
> 1622698319 13164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I think most systems that have an OS also have virtual memory nowadays, although of course that wasn't historically always the case
> 1622698335 929133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> that depends how you define an "OS"
> 1622698347 444152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> on a microcontroller you normally care more about peak memory usage than anything, so it's usual to statically allocate everything so that you know how much is available
> 1622698350 832216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> yep
> 1622698360 599409 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Is it possible to specify what page to use for each group of variables, and then to cancel a page once it is no longer in use?
> 1622698365 724229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and if it's too much, figure out which variables aren't being used simultaneously and union them
> 1622698369 583858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i'm not sure I've *ever* used malloc in all my microcontroller programming
> 1622698388 696669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> zzo38: not in a standard or portable way, both are possible in Linux (and probably other OSes) via system-specific mechanisms
> 1622698448 201275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> in GCC you can specify the section for each variable, and then you can use a linker script to put all those variables together and align them to a page
> 1622698455 27923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and then use madvise(MADV_DONTNEED)
> 1622698455 394666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I guess putting them all in a big structure that's alignas() the page size would be one way to approximate it in (modern) standard C, although you would have to know what the page size was
> 1622698470 944761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> but using a linker script would be the more normal way
> 1622698483 720356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> on a symbol derived from the section load address (which the linker script can also give you)
> 1622698552 595561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> MADV_FREE is possibly better than MADV_DONTNEED for this, it's a kind of "lazy" MADV_DONTNEED that delays the free until memory pressure occurs (or you unfree the pages by writing to them again)
> 1622698600 567686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> although, this seems like the sort of thing that if you were heavily using it for performance, ideally the kernel API wouldn't require system calls
> 1622698664 897232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> if there's no need to do something synchronously, you can imagine having a userspace buffer of "unimportant system calls" that the kernel reads when the process's timeslice starts/ends (not sure which timing would be better)
> 1622698670 673518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and runs them then, to save on context switches
> 1622698681 206763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I don't think anything like that exists yet, but it should
> 1622698715 616040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> For example, the hash tables are only needed during class loading, and the variables dealing with sounds are only needed if sounds are enabled
> 1622698753 95206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> zzo38: if you're looking for a more standard mechanism, you can make the global variables pointers to dynamically allocated memory, allowing you to allocate the memory only when needed and free it after you're done
> 1622698799 65343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, I know, but I wanted to know if there is a way to do without dynamic memory, too
> 1622698802 382707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> although, in practice, most mallocs will never return memory to the OS (until the program ends), rather recycling it for use in future allocations, except when dealing with very large allocations
> 1622698875 839564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I've heard proposals to make all system calls asynchronous based on request / completion queues
> 1622698881 680238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> not sure if that was ever implemented in linux
> 1622698898 963685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I think that in order to make a general-purpose malloc that did habitually return almost all the memory, you'd need some sort of GC that could move objects around and update the pointers to them, otherwise memory fragmentation would become too large an issue
> 1622698900 582904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> keegan: I like that
> 1622698941 552445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> except I guess you still want something like a synchronous system call that's just "wait for the next event"
> 1622698943 180358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I've actually been wondering about how far you could go in terms of implementing system calls in userspace
> 1622698952 88811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> (which could be a syscall completion or a timer or an I/O event)
> 1622698960 225139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and yes, you need one blocking call, which would basically be a hyper-general select-alike
> 1622698968 320490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> yeah
> 1622699253 246883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> You can't move objects around with malloc though; you will need realloc for such a thing, I think. (I don't know what implementations of realloc will do that well enough, though.)
> 1622699257 122722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> when looking into the "world's fastest fizzbuzz" thing I was wondering whether it might be possible to implement pipes using shared memory, so that the kernel normally wouldn't need to be involved
> 1622699293 639470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> zzo38: well, we're assuming that the malloc implementation wants to move them, the problem is that the program that allocated the objects typically won't be able to handle them unexpectedly moving
> 1622699316 752682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> so you'd probably need to use something that was able to trace all the pointers to the objects (even in registers) to be able to update them
> 1622699351 322868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> esoidea: a "conservative" Boehm-GC-like GC, but which actually compacts objects in memory, and just updates anything in the address space that looks like a pointer
> 1622699367 52622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> this would lead to random bits of memory corruption, but the program would probably still run
> 1622699381 295994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and you could probably work around it by programming defensively
> 1622699493 244912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> The OASYS text adventure VM will set all references to an object to null when the object is freed, although it doesn't move around objects in memory (but doing so wouldn't be prohibited by the definition of the VM, as long as it looks in local variables and stack also; doing so would require keeping track of the types of values in the stack)
> 1622699506 612056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> yes
> 1622699528 910039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I think compilers should generate metadata with programs that allow all the types of values in the stack and heap to be calculated via tracing pointers
> 1622699538 295465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> they're pretty much doing that anyway at the moment, to generate debug info
> 1622699547 523202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and it would be useful for precise garbage collection and compaction
> 1622699734 195843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> yes
> 1622699767 780055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I know there's been a lot of design work on adding GC hooks to Rust
> 1622699789 486803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> because they don't want to add a GC to the language implementation itself, but want to make it possible for third party libraries to implement GCs that integrate nicely
> 1622699793 956741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> it's a fairly tricky problem
> 1622699833 818166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> btw that kind of metadata is also used for another purpose: stack unwinding for exceptions
> 1622699839 574115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> yes
> 1622699846 130509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> although, I'm not as sure that that's necessary
> 1622699866 573170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I had a great idea to save executable size, which is to determine the stack unwind rules via static analysis of the executable
> 1622699886 881429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and to make small adjustments to opcodes in order to ensure that the analysis would produce the right result
> 1622699893 158879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> (and to mark things like catch blocks)
> 1622699911 219682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> well you can definitely implement exception semantics without stack unwinding, by transforming to a sum type. but it loses performance in the non-exceptional case
> 1622699913 553485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> at least in x86, lots of asm instructions have multiple possible encodings, which let you put that sort of metadata there
> 1622699916 176810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> now that's an interesting idea
> 1622699944 989317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> the idea of "constrain your compiler output so it's statically analyzable" also shows up in other places
> 1622699955 812000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> like various sandboxing schemes
> 1622699972 70787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> Google's NaCl and other stuff
> 1622699987 621011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> running untrusted native code by checking that it conforms to a restricted subset that has statically analyzable control flow
> 1622699996 904613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> most notably, mov register, register has a spare bit, and the REX prefix is very common and has a spare bit (rex.x) in the majority of places it's used
> 1622700095 844556 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> int-e: in both these locations, the two commands are specced as equivalent, so Intel/AMD couldn't break the equivalence in a future processor revision without breaking existing programs
> 1622700140 459763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> so the only issue would be if you wanted to use the spare bits for two different purposes, and I think it'd be up to the executable format to decide which meaning it wanted
> 1622700147 806485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> There are VM codes for such statically analyzable with sandboxing too, though
> 1622700182 332790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> shachaf: this seems unlikely to happen in practice, because the spare bits are a consequence of making the encodings orthogonal
> 1622700200 552960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> so the reason they're there in the first place is because it was more performant to do that than to give them a meaning
> 1622700224 864797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> int-e: well, the amount of information you need for unwind, that isn't in the code already, is basically zero
> 1622700244 904591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> oh, with GC it'd be way worse, you probably wouldn't have enough for that
> 1622700247 462633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I was just thinking about unwinding
> 1622700279 981363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Although, some VM codes are not statically analyzable, but that will only mean that JIT is difficult; depending on the specific VM codes, stuff such as moving around objects automatically might still be possible
> 1622700379 500554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> well, a decently accurate algorithm for unwinding on a caller-cleans ABI looks something like "run through the program, executing only unconditional jumps, pushes/pops, returns, and anything that mentions the stack pointer"
> 1622700440 32644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the only common operation that misses is spills
> 1622700490 42249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I don't know if it will work unless the program is written in that way, in which case it will work.
> 1622700520 202610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and I was thinking about this in combination with an ABI where spills were noticeably different from "regular" local variable access (accessing a different part of memory, so that local variable out-of-bounds wouldn't overwrite spilled data)
> 1622700571 813308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> fwiw, nowadays I think of function calls and returns as a spill of the instruction pointer, it seems to map perfectly into the normal register spilling in the function prolog/epilog
> 1622700604 116734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the calling function doesn't get to use the instruction pointer because the called function needs to use it, so you have to spill it
> 1622700690 800491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> yes, but you need to spill the register in order to make more than one call
> 1622700727 984575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> actually, modern x86 does that too, but only for userspace→kernelspace `syscall`s
> 1622700760 688597 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> (I think the reason is that is that it saves you from needing to figure out which stack you're using and what's allowed to access it)
> 1622700805 82342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> this is why syscalls on Linux clobber two registers, incidentally, it's because those registers were used to spill IP and flags during the syscall process
> 1622700841 208708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it's call-preserved for obvious reasons, thus it must be technically owned by the caller
> 1622700863 822629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> (although of course the callee can use it for other things temporarily as long as it restores the value)
> 1622700994 495917 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I guess one benefit of using a link register is that it means that the processor doesn't have to understand the stack at the hardware level
> 1622701008 521976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> although, I think hardware-accelerated stacks make a lot of sense for all but the very simplest processors
> 1622701040 904031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> yes
> 1622701075 920528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I think both Intel and AMD have a separate predictor in the hardware whose job is to predict the value of %rsp, that runs ahead of the main predictors
> 1622701102 333824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and they also have an internal stack that stores the addresses of the last few unreturned call instructions to be executed
> 1622701110 447029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> which is used to predict where a return instruction goes
> 1622701130 378748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> (but the value needs to be read from memory anyway, just in case someone modified the stack in between the call and return)
> 1622701174 799021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> IIRC something related to Spectre/Meltdown meant that there was some scenario in which you had to intentionally overflow that stack for security reasons
> 1622701199 174874 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> in order to overwrite any value an attacker might have put in there (which might cause speculative execution to something that shouldn't be speculatively executed)
> 1622701359 812304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83883&oldid=83799 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+1810) 10testing tables
> 1622701408 340049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83884&oldid=83883 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10fix
> 1622701642 20012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83885&oldid=83884 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10
> 1622701662 295023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83886&oldid=83885 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+17) 10
> 1622701700 243241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83887&oldid=83886 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-1823) 10
> 1622702002 321028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83888 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+2006) 10Inital Commit
> 1622702229 88070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83889&oldid=83888 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+513) 10
< 1622705286 12553 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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> 1622705575 230604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's what unicode is for
> 1622705587 598647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> to avoid spamfilters
> 1622705915 84523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83890&oldid=83889 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+9) 10
> 1622706069 760133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: well those are some scary eso-ideas
> 1622706450 681575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: on the practical side, the big advantage of Linux and C ecosystem is that most of the libraries are compiled in a way that has a fixed ABI and you'll be able to use the same binary without recompiling forever. (the rust guys are trying to work hard to break this, though perhaps that'll change in the future like on MSVC, but even in a rust library you could add a definite C ABI interface that you 
> 1622706456 688956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> export and then import with another smaller rust "header" library that you do have to recompile.) that makes it hard to try to do something like that garbage collection that requires every piece of code in your executable to adhere to some new ABI convention like that unwinding markings. 
> 1622706599 799350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83891&oldid=83890 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+44) 10
> 1622706650 186497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83892&oldid=83891 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10/* Instructions */
> 1622706684 703181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83893&oldid=83892 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-16) 10/* Instructions */
> 1622707021 82687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I consider this assuming benevolence: let's say that rust doesn't have a stable ABI yet because it's a young language and they don't want to commit themselves to a bad ABI while the language is still evolving, because they might regret that later. 
> 1622707037 571519 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Bangyen14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83894 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+83) 10Created page with "whoa i've only made this wiki today and ppl made interpreters/compilers for it wow."
> 1622707067 973359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Bangyen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83895&oldid=83894 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-83) 10Blanked the page
> 1622707115 742395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so for now, if you really want a fixed ABI, you have to explicitly define and export a C ABI, and import it from another crate. sort of like what you could do to have a binary that you don't have to recompile for a C++ library in Windows MSVC, back when MSVC broke the C++ ABI more often. though the situation isn't quite analogous to C++, so don't try to take that metaphor too far.
> 1622707147 377409 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wow that Bangyen dude implemented >30 interpreters
> 1622707154 579686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and yes, I do sometimes say that rust is to C++ as zig is to C, but rust crates which are relevant here are one of the things that really break this analogy
> 1622707157 935480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what a hobby
> 1622707194 846356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: you mean some people in #esoteric do weird and apparently useless things with computers?
> 1622707449 557189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I should make one more useless thing
> 1622707462 646615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> a translator between all the brainfuck derivatives
> 1622707879 457598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> while downloading maps from davidrumsey.com it's so interesting to explore how town that know had different names during being settled by different people
> 1622708009 41240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> for example, the first known town names in Crimea were given by Greeks, Evpatoria was known as Kerkinitida, then it was renamed to Gezlev idk by whom, maybe tatars that were owners of it for most of the time
> 1622708057 917900 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Sebastopol, Simferopol, Melitopol -- the "-opol" is from greek
> 1622708123 753355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> then Russian names were changing sometimes during the Russian Empire
> 1622708234 476224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> then seas also have multiple names because they are named by explorers from everywhee
> 1622708341 336413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and that German regions that int-e helped me understand the map about -- I didn't know they existed, and some towns there really had German names
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> 1622710614 465470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83896&oldid=83882 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+43) 10/* Program Commands */ grow / shrink in terms of w
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> 1622711311 674019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Oh, right, that.
> 1622711339 907288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I could do the usual "add a non-breaking space" thing.
> 1622711382 873631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Or make "brctl: ignored" only work via private messages, maybe that'd be better.
< 1622711992 121374 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622712115 141325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Two reasons: I think it's good there's some way of checking it did what you told it to; and I need a way of reading the list before a restart so that I can persist it into the config file.
> 1622712139 501666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Maybe we won't have a bridge so long that it's worth doing anything extreme, like having it write a file.
> 1622712669 262729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I've been wondering if there's a thing like that; I was going to set it on esowiki on the other network, so that all the bridged things and/or wiki changes stop showing up as activity.
> 1622713565 589403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<tepos> /﹗⧹ THIЅ СHΑΝΝᎬL HАS ΜΟVΕᎠ TΟ IᎡϹ．ᏞIBΕRΑ．ⅭᕼAT #HᎪMRАᎠⅠΟ ⁄！\
> 1622713565 589502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<tepos> ／!⧹ JOIΝ ＃ዘAΜRAᎠΙΟ ΤOⅮAY. ΤHΙᏚ CⲎAⲚNΕL ΗAS ΜⲞVED ТΟ ΙᎡC․LΙBEᎡA.CHΑT ＃HAMRΑᎠIO /！⧹
> 1622713565 589567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<tepos> TᕼΙS ΟᖴᖴΙCΙAᏞᏞΥ EΝDORSᎬᗪ ⅯΕᏚSAGE WAS BROUGHΤ TO YOU BY ᒪIВERA․СНAT ᏚТАFᖴ
< 1622714663 119951 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1622716050 801304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83897&oldid=83873 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+14) 10Added RAMDISP
> 1622716121 517745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83898&oldid=83893 5* 03Otesunki 5* (-2) 10if Otesunki.stupid: Otesunki.scream()
> 1622716536 48877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83899&oldid=83898 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+175) 10
> 1622716798 199497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAMDISP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83900&oldid=83899 5* 03Otesunki 5* (+22) 10/* Instructions */
> 1622717202 559122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PEWWWWW14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83901 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+2652) 10Unfinished. Only contribute if you know what you're doing!
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> 1622721999 997401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tech Support Scam14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83902&oldid=83858 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Truth machine */ Fix
> 1622722096 845126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoplight14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83903&oldid=82416 5* 03Jedgrei 5* (-29) 10It's not turing complete
> 1622722161 7870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> [Re wiki-change:] I agree it's not, but I don't think it's really an OISC either.
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> 1622723232 41780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CatCatDeluxe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83904&oldid=83859 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (-19) 10
> 1622723484 655915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83905&oldid=83819 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+821) 10/* Notes */
> 1622724511 764007 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> as I asid, brctl could respond in private or notice
> 1622724519 463448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> to avoid highlight
> 1622724995 430659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I don't like bots responding in private when the trigger was public. But in any case the listing is now private-only.
> 1622726535 343522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83906&oldid=83896 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+129) 10/* Program Commands */ accumulator deltas
< 1622726668 174771 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vkixxdpbtuzyeekq PART :#esoteric
> 1622727822 272953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83907&oldid=83906 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+43) 10/* Program Commands */ define x
< 1622727925 855617 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@178-133-87-72.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622732226 491577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83908&oldid=83905 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+309) 10/* Syntax */
> 1622732359 70449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83909&oldid=83908 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+29) 10/* Notes */
> 1622732676 378799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83910&oldid=83909 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+426) 10/* Notes */
> 1622732737 537759 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> .oO(if only that occured to Gödel)
> 1622732788 399315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83911&oldid=83910 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+135) 10/* An Actual Dictionary */
> 1622732875 686750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83912&oldid=83911 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-5) 10/* Example */
> 1622732929 400737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83913&oldid=83912 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+16) 10/* Example */
> 1622732946 472417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Program Number System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83914&oldid=83913 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */
> 1622733342 554474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trivial brainfuck substitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83915&oldid=80702 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+27) 10
> 1622734059 743532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83916 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+147) 10Created page with "this is a really interesting idea, I would love to see it be completed. ~~~~"
> 1622735389 297185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoplight14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83917&oldid=83903 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+321) 10Implement
> 1622735671 69494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MathR 5*  10New user account
> 1622736087 254810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83918&oldid=83879 5* 03MathR 5* (+138) 10/* Introductions */
< 1622736654 229387 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622736823 31478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MathR14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83919 5* 03MathR 5* (+40) 10Created page with "Hi I'm '''MathR''' and ''I like bread''."
> 1622738843 533980 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there'll be a fun second wave starting around 2021-07-27 when all the libera nicks grabbed by the gold rush folks start to expire, and #libera will be overloaded by requests by other users to usurp them
> 1622739206 80035 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ok, so I have a silly question. suppose I want to render the logs of this channel in HTML, and want to assign a unique class to every nick so that I can assign unique full depth colors to them (and readers can customize those colors easily in browser side). should I use the nicks in the class names as is, which is valid but requires you to escape some characters in CSS, or should I translate the 
> 1622739212 502337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> brackets and backslashes to letters according to some ISO-646 character set? and if the latter, should it be the finnish or the norwegian? what ISO-646 character set does New Zealand use?
> 1622739295 183053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I would say the Finnish, but I'm obviously biased.
> 1622739427 881549 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: what do I do with a "^" then?
> 1622739430 478289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Would you also lowercase them with the network's CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 rules, or just distinguish between case?
> 1622739444 193476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ah, apparently you can map that to ü
> 1622739479 870070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: I would make them case insensitive as in nicks that fold the same get the same class, but probably preserve the latest case that appears in the log in the class name
> 1622739483 137846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or... hmm
> 1622739496 22144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> if I want to support user style overrides then that won't work
> 1622739503 886131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> then I'll just casefold them all to uppercase
> 1622739564 485074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I don't think its ü in ISO-646-FI proper, but I think it's all pretty flexible.
> 1622739568 124844 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` echo '[\]^{|}~' | iconv -f iso646-fi -t utf-8
> 1622739569 145315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​ÄÖÅ^äöå‾
> 1622739661 360312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think it's odd that Libera.Chat (the modern network) uses CASEMAPPING=rfc1459, while IRCnet (the agressively non-modern network that doesn't do services, and has half the open TLS-capable servers using expired certificates) uses CASEMAPPING=ascii.
> 1622739719 32135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: freenode used to do ascii, but they changed it when they changed the irc software
> 1622739737 39072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't know what they did to nick/channel registrations that clashed after
> 1622739901 94715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I did a survey of ircnet.clue.be, ircnet.hostsailor.com, ssl.irc.atw-inter.net, irc.swepipe.net and openirc.snt.utwente.nl in preparation of maybe switching to an opinionated TLS-only bouncer. The first two have a valid Let's Encrypt cert, but the third has a self-signed (though not expired) certificate, the fourth had a Let's Encrypt certificate for a completely different DNS name that had expired two 
> 1622739907 100704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> days ago, and the fifth had a Digicert-issued certificate that had expired in Sep 2020.
> 1622739923 102487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The last one also just closed the connection after TLS negotiation.
> 1622739924 562432 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: are those all ircnet servers?
> 1622739928 284624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah.
> 1622739968 626666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I picked them from http://irc.tu-ilmenau.de/all_servers/?focus=1&open=1 which is supposedly automagically maintained by a crawler.
> 1622739997 972346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Back "home" it used to be the case that you just used your ISP's IRCnet server, and didn't have to worry about these kind of things.
> 1622740049 661874 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: ircnet is terrible. it has a hodge-podge of servers ran to different specifications, even the nicklen and chanlen restrictions are different on them, which is, you know, weird because they apply to nicks and #-channels that are global on the network (for &-channels it would make sense)
> 1622740057 197251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and most of the servers are closed 
> 1622740067 50978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and many of the servers are sometimes working sometimes not
> 1622740074 317622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I am connected but I don't like the place
> 1622740076 329637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83920 5* 03MathR 5* (+1928) 10Created page with "'''Jumping True''' is an esolang created by [[User:MathR|MathR]]. Its main particularity is that its conditional statement is based on the [[Truth-machine|truth-machine]]. It..."
> 1622740088 810710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I know, but it's still "the" network for me, so I don't want to drop off.
> 1622740111 97662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> freenode was "the" network for me. 
> 1622740128 822185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I'm probably on more channels there than here, anyway. It's just that they're all utterly silent.
> 1622740162 972891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83921&oldid=83920 5* 03MathR 5* (-2) 10
> 1622740174 442015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83922&oldid=83897 5* 03MathR 5* (+19) 10/* J */
> 1622740235 651053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83923&oldid=83921 5* 03MathR 5* (+17) 10
< 1622740313 73066 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1622740400 177133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary but also Brainfuck but also neither (BBABBAN)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83924 5* 03Batata 5* (+4651) 10Created page with "'''Binary but also Brainfuck but also neither''' or '''BBABBAN''' for short (pronounced '''babn''') is an [[Esoteric_programming_language|esolang]] where, as the name..."
> 1622740499 335073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> b_jonas: in my entirely unbiased opinion you should go with norwegian hth
> 1622740603 217567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> . o O ( BBABBAN IS YOU )
> 1622740752 166124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> BBABBAN, is that like one of those rhyme schemes? 
> 1622740797 897410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I guess usually it'd be written AABAABC though.
< 1622741505 869917 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc QUIT :*.net *.split
> 1622741604 543566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MathR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83925&oldid=83919 5* 03MathR 5* (+28) 10
> 1622741646 466404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83926&oldid=83923 5* 03MathR 5* (+4) 10/* Language overview */
< 1622741655 805594 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622741666 941495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83927&oldid=83848 5* 03Batata 5* (+65) 10
> 1622741675 395787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83928&oldid=83927 5* 03Batata 5* (+1) 10
> 1622741680 990496 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> B AB A is You
> 1622741711 468657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> so
> 1622741723 886607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I feel like this is slightly esoteric
> 1622741789 917528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> if you take length 10 binary strings (there's 1024 of them), 0000 occurs in 251 of them, 0101 occurs in 357 of them, 0011 occurs in 424 of them
< 1622741799 351266 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622741826 535009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> rephrased: flip a coin 10 times, how likely are you to get heads 4 times in a row? (about 25% chance) How likely are you to get heads heads tails tails (about 50% chance)
> 1622741955 91026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83929&oldid=83926 5* 03MathR 5* (+73) 10
> 1622741965 882741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> > 424 / 1024 -- sounds a bit high
> 1622741967 420520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  0.4140625
> 1622741987 824619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83930&oldid=83929 5* 03MathR 5* (-1) 10/* Language overview */
> 1622742042 788030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> roughly :P
> 1622742044 215029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> but still
> 1622742054 801785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> the fact these probabilities are different at all is pretty striking to me!
> 1622742060 560153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I found this highly unintuitive
> 1622742143 317511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83931&oldid=83930 5* 03MathR 5* (+6) 10/* Examples */
> 1622742216 162361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> hm...
> 1622742295 111942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> river: i think it's related to the fact that some of those allow more simultaneous occurrences. like 0000000000 contains 0000 at 7 different spots
> 1622742312 15991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> but you cannot have that many at once for 0011 or 0101
> 1622742366 360610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> yeah I think it is!
> 1622742369 499942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> if you count the occurrences, i think it gets even
> 1622742381 974932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> autocorrelation factor of 0000 is full, 0101 is half, 0011 is none
> 1622742410 834323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> ah let me try that out
> 1622742417 755444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Typeform14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83932&oldid=83826 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+18) 10
> 1622742447 718949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Typeform14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83933&oldid=83932 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+9) 10
> 1622742461 743908 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> river: yes, also if you flip a coin repeatedly until you first get one of two chosen infixes that you're listening to, and both infixes are the same length, it's possible that you'll more likely to encounter one of them first than the other
> 1622742472 381741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> which is also a bit unintuitive
> 1622742559 871668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> hmm i tweaked the program to count with multiplicity, but i still get different values
> 1622742572 7613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> they are close to but all higher than the original numbers
> 1622742612 482362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> hm that's strange, i thought they would be equal by the linearity of expectation value
> 1622742631 787754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> are you sure you counted all occurrences :P
> 1622742680 245611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> specifically, my reasoning: you _must_ have the same probability of all the strings occuring in the _first_ position, and in the _second_ position, etc.
> 1622742731 190289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> s/of all the strings/of any string/
> 1622742883 376601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> > replicateM 10 "01"
> 1622742884 794378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  ["0000000000","0000000001","0000000010","0000000011","0000000100","000000010...
> 1622742963 708694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> https://bpa.st/B6QA here's an example of looking for aa vs ab in length 5 bitstrings
> 1622742979 702365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> aa occurs 23 times, ab occurs 32 times
> 1622742991 740090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> this definitely doesn't make sense to me
> 1622743008 951326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> How to configure Firefox so that if the current URI is a "file:" URI that points to a EPUB file, to automatically prefix "jar:" and suffix "!/" on the URL?
> 1622743016 170685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> river: oh i see. i meant occurrences could be _overlapping_ too.
> 1622743042 526151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> ah
> 1622743048 550148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> it's a mistake in my code
> 1622743055 31442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i meant to count overlapping
> 1622743055 561505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> (so aaaaa should give 4 aa, not 2)
> 1622743057 446925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> let me fix that
> 1622743086 592380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> the python count function is broken
> 1622743274 74438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> ok! fixed, now I get 32 in both cases!
> 1622743302 868747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> yay!
> 1622743673 914680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> so what does this tell us... the number of times it occurs *is* equal - it's just that if a word has autocorrelation its going to happen in fewer runs, but more times per run
> 1622743680 153839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> for reasons?? that are unclear to me
> 1622743703 760313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> river: yes
> 1622744038 544831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> tbh
> 1622744043 702425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I feel like I just have 2 mysteries now
> 1622744059 549299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> why its equal when you could with multiplicity is not clear to me
> 1622744588 622343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> river: counting with multiplicity is the same as counting each occurence of the string at each position.
> 1622744642 633180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> now this should give the same result if you do it in a different order: for each position, count the number of large strings which have the smaller string at that position.
> 1622744713 833809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> but that is the same as, number of positions * 2 ^ (number of bits outside the smaller string)
> 1622744717 305433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> OMG
> 1622744721 209817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> thats so neat!!
> 1622744770 225800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> yw
> 1622744898 235893 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there are two funny probability problems that we discussed on #esoteric after I brought them up, the chameleon one and a card game 
> 1622744906 775357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> they're somewhere in the logs
> 1622745037 24867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Which ones are they? Do you remember it to copy it?
> 1622745138 785601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't have links. I'll have to search for chameleon
> 1622745349 796606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I should download the logs at some point to make searching esaier
> 1622745441 648086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> let me see... https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2016-10.html#lDQc
> 1622745587 581735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> which links to https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2016-07.html#lhhc
> 1622746336 538282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I can tell the problems again later if someone cares, with the cleaners proofs that we know now
> 1622746899 494275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I am potentially interested in such things
< 1622748070 130267 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622748580 375557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83934&oldid=83928 5* 03Batata 5* (+3) 10
> 1622748600 347565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83935&oldid=83934 5* 03Batata 5* (+1) 10
> 1622749249 747701 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> https://martingalemeasure.wordpress.com/2014/02/02/monkey-typing-abracadabra-14/
> 1622749256 428035 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> monkey types randomly
> 1622749259 238272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> >Wow, the average time for the monkey to type  is actually longer than the average time to type .
> 1622749272 500895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> >Wow, the average time for the monkey to type ABA is actually longer than the average time to type ABC.
> 1622749294 96081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> does this align with the previous results? or contrast to them
> 1622749434 338510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> river: yes, I did mention that variant
> 1622749461 336115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> well not quite
> 1622749465 137545 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I mentioned something similar
> 1622749471 232947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you're right that it's not the same
> 1622749505 648538 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> isn't that backwards though?
> 1622749517 860817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ABA should have a shorter average time to first type than ABC
> 1622749538 508609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> hmmm
< 1622749948 617054 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@178-133-87-72.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1622750210 191200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> of course that only applies if the monkeys hit keys uniformly. in reality they might have thick fingers so it's difficult for them to press just one button, or they're hammering on the keyboard with their fists or something
> 1622750218 736676 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> uniformly and independently
> 1622750887 646828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> disappointed that the article does not involve actual experiments with monkeys
> 1622750913 247384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> hehe
> 1622751918 425988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Glypho14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83936&oldid=8211 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+1336) 10/* Python interpreter */ new section
> 1622752382 920221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Justiof 5*  10New user account
> 1622752888 19749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83937&oldid=83918 5* 03Justiof 5* (+218) 10/* Introductions */
< 1622753152 898276 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1622753753 673304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I'm pondering using GNU Lightning. Do folks have anecdotes or opinions? One minor disappointment is that it seems that there's no AOT native-code emitter, so any intermediate/cached representations would have to be ad-hoc.
> 1622754100 885789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I read about it before; I had never tried to use it though
> 1622755907 896297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Counting Calculus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83938 5* 03SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont 5* (+1038) 10Created page with "= Counting Calculus = A programming language of which the primary way of doing mathematical calculation is by counting the amount of -conversions done in a lambda-calculus e..."
> 1622756006 371573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Counting Calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83939&oldid=83938 5* 03SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont 5* (+44) 10
< 1622757110 880390 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1622762015 593639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83940&oldid=83907 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+29) 10contract 'accumulator' amount
> 1622762678 238530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83941&oldid=83940 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-12) 10/* Program Commands */ rearrange,  not sure that's better
< 1622764457 341657 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622764833 779147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Counting Calculus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83942&oldid=83939 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+54) 10Categorize
> 1622764952 270253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Braneflage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83943&oldid=83941 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2) 10/* Program Commands */ that looks better. Hopefully it's correct too.
> 1622766052 840650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e how does Wuste Ebenen translate? https://i.imgur.com/vbqqJtI.png
> 1622766213 869196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> because there is a obscene word Ebenya meaning "something fucking far/disconnected", that is traditionally considered made out of such word as "ebat'" "fuck", "zaebenit" "fucking make smth"; but now seeing the word "Ebenen" on the map I'm thinking that the etymology is not like people use think
> 1622766282 472781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hah, cool, because that's exactly how another map says: https://i.imgur.com/9D72Uk2.png
> 1622766723 700316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> ah so it's similar to the English term "bumfuck" / "bumfuck nowhere"?
> 1622766731 312063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Wiktionary says that "ебать" is protoslav "*jěbati" and is the same in Serbian, Czheh, Slovak, Pol; and is related to sanskrít . यभति (yabhati) and ancient greek. οἴφω, οἰφέω; but now I don't believe Wiktionary that ебеня is from there, because it's too close to your word
> 1622766801 251596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> found one reference to the russian word on twitter https://twitter.com/cybersandwitch/status/1285193689732718593
> 1622766811 874412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i actually have a dead-tree book of photos of soviet bus stops
> 1622766818 482185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what Wiktionary says on German Ebene: From Middle High German ebene, from Old High German ebanī, from Proto-Germanic *ebnaz, whence also Old English efen (English even), Old Norse jafn.
> 1622766821 238612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i saw it at a bookstore and was immediately like yes I need this
> 1622766868 884247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> keegan how do I see the parent tweet?
< 1622766964 901909 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622766985 166992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> either I'm idiot in twitter or it's deleted (
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> 1622767369 797845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> in C, do we know what format __DATE__ will have after year 10000? I want to use it to give a likely branch hint in a date formatting routine so that before 9995 or so the branch that writes a four digit year is considered likely, but after 10000 the branch that writes a five digit year is considered likely instead
> 1622767421 330490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> nakilon: https://twitter.com/ItsDanThomas/status/1284808430167957504
> 1622767443 993727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> b_jonas: excellent idea
> 1622767471 661774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I guess I could just have something in the build script that detects the date instead and defines macros accordingly, and then test those macros instead of __DATE__
> 1622767483 682592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> yes, this is the book I have https://twitter.com/ItsDanThomas/status/1285306157645660161 (vol 2 only)
> 1622767504 306270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> keegan heh you'll never find such stops
> 1622767838 391741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I admire your long-term planning b_jonas 
> 1622767899 728477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> nakilon: I mean, I probably won't
> 1622767904 488186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> because I'm unlikely to visit Russia any time soon
> 1622767912 257577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> these blogs posts copypasting these images made it impossible to google real examples lol
> 1622767916 786243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> heh
> 1622767960 531307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Preprocessor Macro of the Long Now.
> 1622768082 741650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> keegan this is a little bit closer to reality https://www.goingthewholehogg.com/soviet-bus-stops/
> 1622768130 646267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but really it's just 1-3 walls with a roof and maybe a little piece of mosaic
> 1622768147 412119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> real bus stop just won't be photographed and posted in web
> 1622768205 164016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and it would be by magnitude harder to find soviet one in Russia than in Ukraine or maybe Moldova
> 1622768273 98383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I see
> 1622768380 911564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh nice, the Yandex Images search is expectedly more relevant and shows some real things instead of just top-10 blog articles: https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F%20%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%20%D0%B2%20%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%85
> 1622768424 242250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this is it: https://yandex.ru/images/search?pos=74&p=1&img_url=https%3A%2F%2Fi7.photo.2gis.com%2Fimages%2Fgeo%2F0%2F30258560046534811_308c.jpg&text=%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F+%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0+%D0%B2+%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%85&rpt=simage
> 1622768444 218753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> keegan: well there's a subject i didn't realize i was interested in but i absolutely am now
> 1622768445 16189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> :3
> 1622768529 989581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and there are all Ukrainian as I see https://bugaga.ru/jokes/1146723770-sdelano-v-sssr-avtobusnye-ostanovki.html
> 1622772580 995753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> heh, about privacy: 5 years ago here https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/desktop/ there was a Chrome, i.e. not a Google Chrome but almost a Chromium, that is almost without telemetry and stuff; but now it's Google Chrome there, and the FreeSMUG project was closed in 2020 too
> 1622773656 236216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I write software without telemetry; the telemetry is a waste of energy.
> 1622774898 361402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Is there an esolang which is just a presentation of a Turing category? I found the language "Finite Groups", and I'm thinking of a cross between that and Cat/Kitten/Grace/etc.
> 1622774924 320800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> my QuakeLive browser extension was sending users usernames to my Spreadsheet so I knew who used it; Google didn't catch me with it
> 1622777879 582892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Polyglot14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83944&oldid=83833 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy 5* (+46) 10/* Challenge */
> 1622778130 717447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello, world!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83945&oldid=75658 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy 5* (+254) 10
> 1622778384 432323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wtf does kolmogorov have to do with hello world
> 1622778778 98909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Some numbers are more compressible than others, in the Kolmogorov sense that they can be printed out by relatively short programs. "Hello world" is a number. I think that that's all that they're thinking of.
< 1622783751 303213 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
> 1622784367 233067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Do you think that this trademark license is suitable?  http://sprunge.us/iagkJb
> 1622787992 634540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83946&oldid=83881 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-1) 10
> 1622788031 641106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83947&oldid=83946 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+0) 10
> 1622788038 30309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
> 1622788343 166073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
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> 1622799826 144144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Ooh, first-ever recorded CHGHOST: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-06-04.html#lmb
> 1622799830 616323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And how come that takes long? Sure, it's a blocking read, but so's many other things, it should react to SIGTERM just as usual.
> 1622800027 702117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's just cloaking, right? had to be recorded earlier
> 1622800047 551105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It was recorded as a simulated quit-and-rejoin pair, not as a CHGHOST.
> 1622800087 319069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I just turned on the extension that allows it to report it as a single thing, is all.
> 1622800098 798382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I see
> 1622800164 809336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> lol
> 1622800193 85443 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> FireFly: You made history. (Not in a very big way, but still.)
> 1622800233 528284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I vaguely remember there used to be something screwy about how umlbox handles time, maybe it's just that its notion of 30 seconds gets real skewed.
> 1622800404 971026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 1; echo a second
> 1622800406 945697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> a second
> 1622800412 790977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 2; echo two seconds
> 1622800415 705937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> two seconds
> 1622800422 566445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 4; echo four seconds
> 1622800427 523651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> four seconds
> 1622800445 191525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That seems to check out, roughly. But last time it broke when I went for five, somehow.
> 1622800452 20079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 5; echo five seconds
> 1622800464 52285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> five seconds
> 1622800476 94334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, that was definitely more than 5.
> 1622800480 726944 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 10; echo ten seconds
> 1622800514 897677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> the world's longest ten seconds
> 1622800590 972388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah. I wonder if it's something like, its "wall" clock only runs when there's actually CPU activity, so while a busy-loop gets terminated roughly in the allotted 30 seconds, an entirely idle wait can run for much longer.
> 1622800739 567069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Still running, but I don't have any way to tell how far it's gotten.
> 1622800767 733901 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> If someone puts in a busy loop will that be enough for the sleep 10 to catch up
> 1622800771 3863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ten seconds
> 1622800789 446873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It'd be a separate UML instance, so probably not, they should be fully independent.
> 1622800852 929588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> 4 minutes and 51 seconds
> 1622800936 455275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> "Real-time Clock makes UML time deltas match wall clock deltas. This should normally be enabled." Says some random excerpt from an UML book from 15 years ago.
> 1622801290 349454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I don't see anything relevant in the kernel config options, really.
> 1622801499 559474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There apparently used to be an option called UML_REAL_TIME_CLOCK. But I can find no sign of it in the kernel I've got there (4.19), which might mean it's either no longer an option because it's now on by default, or it's no longer an option because it just isn't supported any more.
> 1622801511 973613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/UML_REAL_TIME_CLOCK.html says "found in Linux kernels: 2.6.9–2.6.23" which was pretty long time ago.
> 1622801530 751581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `` rasel @ 
> 1622801532 601964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
> 1622801553 935256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ah it responded already
> 1622801623 38031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Fortunately timeouts don't really block other non-writing commands from going ahead, so it's not a huge deal if there's a stuck idle process for a few minutes. Still, would be nice to have time work more properly.
> 1622801639 365073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Maybe I'll just go with the cheap fix and add an external timeout.
> 1622801693 934443 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Why are you taking Polly down into the mine? Polly's a parrot, not a canary! And where's my cracker?
> 1622801712 409370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Although there's this whole fancy thing with the internal one, where it has a two-phase thing: after 30 seconds, it sends TERM, and then gives the process a 5-second grace period to stop cleanly before sending KILL to it.
> 1622801789 429793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I guess I could try to figure out how to trigger the soft timeout from the outside, and then have an even harder one (just terminate the UML kernel) if both of those fail.
> 1622801891 820352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I mean, it still times out *eventually*.
> 1622801936 252037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> In case you missed it, the "10 seconds" did already finish.
> 1622802055 934644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think I'll probably add an extra TTY to signal in the TERM and KILL timeout triggers from the outside (where I expect time probably does run in a linear fashion), and then add one more phase which just kills the UML process. That'll simplify the init too.
> 1622802064 805395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> But not now.
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> 1622805791 168113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83948&oldid=83947 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+0) 10
> 1622806109 405588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83949&oldid=83948 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+120) 10Added a link to my python interpreter
> 1622806183 492153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83950&oldid=83949 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+4) 10Put the links into an unordered list.
> 1622806244 850234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83951&oldid=83950 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+18) 10Added the page to the 2021 category.
> 1622810229 344957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83952 5* 03ResU 5* (+729) 10Created page with "NOTE is an esolang created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. It uses one-based indexing. ==Arrays== Arrays are created like this: <code>example = Hello, world!</code> In this case, <c..."
> 1622810825 782568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83953&oldid=83952 5* 03ResU 5* (+21) 10/* Commands */
> 1622811275 15971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83954&oldid=83953 5* 03ResU 5* (+35) 10/* Commands */
> 1622813039 221395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83955&oldid=83954 5* 03ResU 5* (+395) 10/* Examples */
> 1622813072 930194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83956&oldid=83955 5* 03ResU 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */
> 1622813257 257136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rayuela14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83957&oldid=82823 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+0) 10minor fix
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> 1622816437 63022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83958&oldid=83931 5* 03MathR 5* (+56) 10
> 1622816771 606632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83959&oldid=83958 5* 03MathR 5* (+17) 10
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> 1622819271 726079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83960&oldid=83877 5* 03ResU 5* (+15) 10
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> 1622821941 512615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Epidemic714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83961&oldid=83624 5* 03Epidemic7 5* (-113) 10
> 1622822417 523692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumping True14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83962&oldid=83959 5* 03MathR 5* (+24) 10/* External resources */
> 1622822444 814436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725 bytes o:14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83963 5* 03Epidemic7 5* (+308) 10Created page with "[[Category: Joke languages]] 25 bytes o: is an esoteric programming language designed to be as least functional as possible with the smallest compiler. To it's name, it's 25 b..."
> 1622822648 119100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725 bytes o:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83964&oldid=83963 5* 03Epidemic7 5* (-5) 10
> 1622822694 884709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725 bytes o:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83965&oldid=83964 5* 03Epidemic7 5* (+68) 10
> 1622823379 23561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FALSE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83966&oldid=58762 5* 03MathR 5* (+0) 10Changed "Computational Class" to "Computational class"
> 1622825293 358023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83967&oldid=83845 5* 03ResU 5* (+38) 10/* NOTE */
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> 1622826612 629557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> `coins
> 1622826618 572745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​042ivncoin 07wilsonacoin 08q-ballendsartrecoin 09mesolammalcoin 02draysnaterreludenjarercoin 06bakcoin 13haifficidumbscoin 04owlacoin 07disorcoin 08witcoin 09lockcoin 02tsummagemoneycoin 06bincoin 13befernogcoin 04fcccoin 07thrugcoin 08fruntecoin 09cronycoin 02adedfourcoin 06uixcoin
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> 1622831708 559693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83968&oldid=83270 5* 03ResU 5* (+186) 10
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> 1622835596 155045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83969&oldid=83968 5* 03Ais523 5* (+181) 10/* Category:No input */ [[:Category:Output only]]?
> 1622836228 822251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm, what's the standard clean C way to wait for either a child process to terminate or a file descriptor to become ready for reading, whichever happens first? I know on modern Linux there's pidfd_open, but that's Linux >= 5.3, and this should work on 4.19. Is it just "poll on the fd and rely on SIGCHLD to cause the poll to fail with EINTR"? And do I need to change the default disposition from ignore to 
> 1622836234 830742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> something else for SIGCHLD to interrupt the poll? Hmm, I guess I can just try it out.
> 1622836427 950796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83970&oldid=83743 5* 03Dnm 5* (+713) 10Deadfish in Rexx
> 1622837545 266806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "<fizzie> Maybe I'll just go with the cheap fix and add an external timeout." => what? that's not a cheap fix, that's the proper method, because you trust the outer machine more than the inner one
> 1622837572 78618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you can also have a timeout in the inner machine so it can prepare to shut down more properly, but it's the outer one that you rely on
> 1622837673 942493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: you can use signalfd if you wish
> 1622837706 147986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or let libev or some other event loop figure out the internals and you only tell it what events you want it to wake you up for
> 1622837796 347131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's a cheap fix in the sense that it doesn't fix the behavior of time measurement. I agree it's proper to have (also) an external timeout, but I was really just talking about the specific problem of being unable to measure time.
> 1622837827 795322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Not that I can think of any particularly important use cases for having HackEso do accurate timing.
> 1622837957 7171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but yes, you can use signals: sigaction to set a signal handler on SIGCHLD, block the signal with sigsetmask, wait nonblocking to check child still alive, if it is then poll on filehandle which temporarily unblocks the signal without a race condition. but this kind of thing is messy, I'
> 1622837969 638598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> d rather libev handles it, at least if this is supposed to run on Linux
> 1622838044 550478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> also the incantations are different in a multithreaded program
> 1622838066 13571 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It does run on Linux (though as part of init).
> 1622838126 16620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> because threads have separate per-thread signal masks, and signals can be directed to either a single thread or to the whole process, etc
> 1622838146 963120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, this is a single-threaded case.
> 1622838223 897269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> the alternative is to have both ends of an internal pipe or eventfd, have the signal write to that as well as to memory, and make every poll wait on its reader side, so that if the signal arrives, that poll wakes up from that, even if the signal arrives shortly before the poll call, then you needn't modify the sigprocmask
> 1622838253 882670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> this is what libev uses to allow you to wake the event loop up from what's possibly another thread of the same process
> 1622838260 651867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (it also works from the same thread)
> 1622839057 788051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there might be other solutions but I don't know them
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> 1622840435 100174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83971&oldid=83956 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-64) 10/* Examples */ Change code to pre
> 1622840719 678613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83972&oldid=83969 5* 03ResU 5* (+187) 10
> 1622840801 38177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83973&oldid=83972 5* 03ResU 5* (-4) 10/* Category:No input */
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> 1622841666 818925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Commlang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83974 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+4619) 10:)
> 1622841700 841668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Monochromeninja14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83975&oldid=81516 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+46) 10
< 1622842142 603212 :LKoen!~LKoen@41.174.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1622842272 131006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 3600  # this should take roughly 30 seconds
> 1622842312 720832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
> 1622842396 803369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 22:31:12..22:31:52 as observed from here. That's so suspiciously close to 40 seconds, it's making me think that (unlike at home) the 30- and 35-second soft and medium-hard timeout signals did not in fact work, and only the 40-second actually-hard timeout made it stop.
> 1622842503 267515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The way it is supposed to work now is, 30 seconds after starting the UML kernel, we write a 0 byte to one of its TTY inputs; if it hasn't terminated in 5 more seconds; we write a 1 byte; and if it *still* doesn't terminate in 5 more seconds, we send a SIGKILL to all the UML processes.
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> 1622842659 631220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And the umlbox init's "run" command handler is supposed to watch that TTY for input; if it reads a 0, it sends a SIGTERM to the running command; and if it reads a 1 (well, any non-zero byte), it just does a `reboot(LINUX_REBOOT_CMD_POWER_OFF);`, which is what it normally does to gracefully stop.
> 1622842723 964797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It does work at home, terminating at the 30-second mark. But of course it's a different system.
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> 1622842927 653305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm. It also does terminate in exactly 10 seconds, and cleanly, if I just manually execute something like `umlbox --no-stdin --base-mounts --cwd / --timeout 10 --verbose /bin/sleep 3600` on the HackEso system. Which is very very close to the command it runs under multibot, except with a bunch of extra mounts and environment variables and resource limits.
> 1622842981 995172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hrm. It takes 20 seconds if I omit `--verbose`. But if I omit `--verbose`, I don't know what's going on.
> 1622842997 440203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83976&oldid=83951 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+9) 10
> 1622843050 351993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Actually, maybe part of what --verbose does enables the read from that TTY. Because I used just the debugging console's "input" side, since it had no other existing purpose.
> 1622843248 907127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The flag does change whether I issue a tcsetattr command to configure it to raw mode. Maybe it's doing some sort of terminal line buffering otherwise.
> 1622843450 648869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alivefish14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83977 5* 03ResU 5* (+474) 10Created page with "Alivefish was created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. It is very similar to [[Deadfish]] and [[AEWNN]]. ==Commands== {| class=wikitable !Command !Description |- |<code>v-</code> |Is..."
> 1622843503 373455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, that seems plausible. I managed to actually fix it by just adding a newline after the 0 or 1. Hmm. Can't decide whether to go with that fix, or just make it use a dedicated TTY.
> 1622843561 1113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83978&oldid=83960 5* 03ResU 5* (+20) 10
> 1622844059 776506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `` sleep 3600  # this should be a little closer to 30 seconds, but who knows really
> 1622844095 425175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
> 1622844150 835186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 23:00:59..23:01:35 as seen from here. Hmm, that's closer to 35 seconds now, rather than 30.
> 1622844200 113512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> But `time .../umlbox --no-stdin --base-mounts --cwd / --timeout 10 /bin/sleep 3600` says 0m10.255s, which is much closer. Odd.
> 1622844371 466915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Oh, maybe there's something about invoking /hackenv/bin/` that makes sending SIGTERM to the primary child process (the shell?) not actually terminate the whole thing. Yeah, because we still wait for the cat (and don't send it SIGTERM in case the command had something to output), and there's bound to be some other subprocess then keeping the cat's input pipe not EOF. I bet that's it.
> 1622844457 87991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Eh, it's probably good enough. I guess I could get a little closer by making the actual command child start a new process group, and then do kill(-child, SIGTERM) instead of kill(child, SIGTERM), but I think maybe we're at the point of diminishing returns here.
> 1622844616 217175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `perl -esleep 3600;  # if that hypothesis is right, this should be closer still to 30 seconds
> 1622844646 845555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
> 1622844680 519415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 23:10:16..23:10:46, yay.
> 1622847205 305675 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: if the first signal is SIGTERM and it's delivered only to the shell, not to sleep, then it's no wonder it has no effect. you should try SIGHUP instead.
> 1622847229 359932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or send to the whole process group, or to the foreground process group of the terminal, or to every process except init since you're shutting down the whole machine
> 1622847239 225055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but even so send a SIGHUP after the SIGTERM\
> 1622847251 985511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or don't, the SIGKILL will kill everything
> 1622847314 426047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ah, you found the bug
> 1622847495 982184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I think that it might be useful to define some new signals, such as SIGMEM (normally does nothing, but for some programming languages it might be possible for the standard library to reduce memory usage) and SIGOOM (normally terminates the process; if it isn't terminated and there still isn't enough memory, then it is forcibly terminated anyways) and SIGUSR3.
> 1622847517 227978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (That is not applicable to your specific case, but still I think it might be of some use for other things)
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> 1622850506 591429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alivefish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83979&oldid=83977 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10/* Commands */ Seems to have them
> 1622850524 337330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alivefish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83980&oldid=83979 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Hello, world! */ cat
> 1622850759 714235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth Machine (language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83981&oldid=83878 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10Confused formatted cats
> 1622850817 564865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83982&oldid=83520 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+51) 10Confusion
> 1622853695 771721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83983&oldid=83976 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+426) 10Added a calculator program.
> 1622853763 352166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83984&oldid=83983 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+2) 10Fixed spelling error
> 1622854199 334477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83985&oldid=83984 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+8) 10Added indents to make things more pleasing.
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> 1622855924 526918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83986&oldid=83985 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-4) 10
> 1622859669 714579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Memfractal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83987&oldid=46148 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+101) 10Linked implementation.
> 1622860759 406611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Danya02 5*  10New user account
> 1622860997 509753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83988&oldid=83937 5* 03Danya02 5* (+224) 10
> 1622861261 829678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83989&oldid=82934 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+98) 10Added Memfractal
> 1622862310 100241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> My idea of cryptographic hash is:  let d[4...11] = message block; let d[12...13] = sequence number; let d[14...15] = constant; chacha20(d); let t[4...15] = t[4...15] xor d[4...15]; chacha20(t);  (It is not the final hash though) (Also, it is not meant for actual use since so far is only being the idea/experimental)
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> 1622864791 30983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> maybe I should review the RASEL specification to change ASCII with some 0..255 encoding
> 1622864837 583008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's kind of undefined where it will (and it probably will) crash if you send 128..255 to stdin
> 1622864855 328653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Another coding is the PC character coding
> 1622864950 499513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \rasel -stdin  1 & .@
> 1622864960 776227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> output: "1 ", exit code: 0
> 1622864991 589964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \rasel -stdin  1 ~ .@
> 1622864992 738895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> output: "49 ", exit code: 0
> 1622865000 832700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \rasel -stdin  Ы ~ .@
> 1622865021 96799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> lol 06:50:02 <velik> thread error: #<Net::HTTPInternalServerError 500 Internal Server Error readbody=true>
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> 1622866226 682697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Better is probably don't care about the encoding just ensure that bytes outside of the ASCII range can still be received.
> 1622866677 872619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Baba Is You14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83990&oldid=81572 5* 03Danya02 5* (+3972) 10/* Words */ Major refactor of text to make wordings more specific and helpful as documentation.
> 1622866739 415669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Baba Is You14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83991&oldid=83990 5* 03Danya02 5* (+1) 10/* Words */ Closing unmatched code block.
> 1622868243 581246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Baba Is You14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83992&oldid=83991 5* 03Danya02 5* (+1568) 10/* Infinite loop */ Describing how the infinite loop works.
> 1622868456 740098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I'm currently adding the -multiline to \rasel
> 1622868462 617681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Baba Is You14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83993&oldid=83992 5* 03Danya02 5* (+99) 10/* Operator NOT */ Adding notice about X is not X.
> 1622868472 717062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but idk how to make the multiline stdin ..D
> 1622868797 447760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83994&oldid=83970 5* 03Dnm 5* (+595) 10Deadfish in Hot Soup Processor
> 1622870104 381482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wtf, I want to test the endpoint but printf...
> 1622870106 843389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> $ printf '-stdin 1 & .@\n'
> 1622870107 49963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> -bash: printf: -s: invalid option
> 1622870301 755888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ok
> 1622870303 86685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> $ curl -X POST -d $(printf %s '-stdin 1 \& .@' | base64) http://localhost:8080
> 1622870303 213943 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> output: 1 , exit code: 0
> 1622870751 632734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> $ curl -X POST -d $(printf %s '-stdin|2|-multiline|& v >.@|  >3v' | base64) http://localhost:8080
> 1622870751 753964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> output: 3 , exit code: 2
> 1622870780 47573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I removed the space between the '-stdin' and '<separator>'
> 1622875244 649502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yeah, doesn't look like Libera accepts 510 bytes
> 1622875288 404677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> privmsg = "PRIVMSG #{addr} :#{msg}"
> 1622875294 496726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> privmsg[-4..-1] = "..." until privmsg.bytesize <= 510
> 1622875303 999966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and I don't see the trailing "..."
> 1622875367 612339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 31 bytes are lost
> 1622876934 11501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \rasel :,01--:G1G//-?#@
> 1622876935 160839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> output: [NUL]
	[LF][CR] !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ, exit code: 255
> 1622876948 260240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \rasel -stdin|10|-multiline|1&$:?v:1-3\$/1\|     >$11\/.@
> 1622876949 409836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> output: 3628800 , exit code: 0
> 1622877199 680891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \help rasel
> 1622877199 829489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> \rasel <code>; \rasel -stdin<sep><stdin><sep><code>; \rasel -multiline<sep><code>; \rasel -stdin<sep><stdin><sep>-multiline<sep><code>; don't forget the '@' or it will timeout; timelimit=30s; https://esolangs.org/wiki/RASEL
> 1622877491 948370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Velik14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83995&oldid=83636 5* 03Nakilon 5* (+4) 10added -multiline example
> 1622877583 703927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Velik14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83996&oldid=83995 5* 03Nakilon 5* (-4) 10the output isn't passed through String#inspect anymore thanks to more correct sanitizing in IRC library
> 1622879291 249887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> nakilon: It does accept exactly 510 bytes, it's just that the limit is for the whole thing, not what you might think of as "the message". When seen by *other* clients, the entire ":nick!user@host PRIVMSG #channel :blah blah blah" must fit into 510 bytes.
> 1622879350 563963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh
> 1622879442 684635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 'velik!~velik@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com' is 52 bytes long though
> 1622879547 94914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> > length ":nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon "
> 1622879548 399748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  31
> 1622879553 879745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Possibly you were measuring that instead.
> 1622879561 207629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (I don't know how you got to 31.)
> 1622880001 743681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hmmm, somehow my second bot instance has shorter hostnam
> 1622880011 19445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon>  /whois velik2
> 1622880050 892140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ah, sure, it's from my home machine
> 1622880081 17480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://dpaste.org/cAp6/slim
> 1622880136 353257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 510, something close
> 1622880303 595440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DimensionDoors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83997&oldid=72117 5* 03MathR 5* (+17) 10
> 1622880557 585480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DimensionDoors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83998&oldid=83997 5* 03MathR 5* (-9) 10
> 1622881470 239389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83999&oldid=83986 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+166) 10Added infobox
> 1622881492 200917 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84000&oldid=83999 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-1) 10Fixed spelling mistake
> 1622881513 772275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84001&oldid=84000 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+1) 10Fixed spelling mistake
> 1622881769 191997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84002&oldid=84001 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+86) 10Edited infobox
> 1622881849 697083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84003&oldid=84002 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-3) 10Changed the implementations section. Re-arranged the implementations in the list.
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> 1622885565 135288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Grs 5*  10New user account
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> 1622886545 554340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84005&oldid=84004 5* 03Grs 5* (+6) 10
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> 1622892837 306215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84006 5* 03Grs 5* (+12488) 10Created page with "Not to be confused with [[OneLine]] or [[Oneline]]<br><br> OLNMLN or OneLineNoMoreLinesNeeded is a programming language where everything is written in one line! It was written..."
> 1622892995 437033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84007&oldid=84006 5* 03Grs 5* (+2) 10
> 1622893021 714202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84008&oldid=84007 5* 03Grs 5* (-1) 10
> 1622893266 99237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84009&oldid=84008 5* 03Grs 5* (+54) 10
> 1622893370 372528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84010&oldid=84009 5* 03Grs 5* (+81) 10
> 1622893517 495863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Grs14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84011 5* 03Grs 5* (+34) 10Created page with "Hello everyone! I made [[OLNMLN]]!"
> 1622893804 191613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84012&oldid=83922 5* 03Grs 5* (+13) 10/* O */
> 1622894721 824707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84013&oldid=84010 5* 03Grs 5* (-16) 10
> 1622894980 136813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84014&oldid=84013 5* 03Grs 5* (+108) 10
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> 1622895725 769728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FlipJump14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84020&oldid=83631 5* 03Tomhe 5* (+1) 10/* The FlipJump CPU */
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> 1622898528 510504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84022&oldid=84019 5* 03Grs 5* (+33) 10
> 1622898560 385119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84023&oldid=84022 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-5) 10/* How it works */ Tpyo
> 1622898697 700789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84024&oldid=84023 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10/* Interpretation of code */ Categories/ul
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> 1622899036 75973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84026&oldid=84025 5* 03Grs 5* (+4) 10
> 1622899355 9559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wanna make \ruby repl too, but since it would need proper sandboxing for file system and network and since it appears that it's not really possible to do docker in a docker, I have to read a ton of boring sysadmin docs about network isolation
> 1622899403 414741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so it's not gonna be soon
> 1622899471 772155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but when I make it would be trivial to add any kind of repl to it
> 1622899500 688585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I mean any language interpreter
> 1622900927 447369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Here's the scow-est thing about the IRC message length limit: if a client is using the (deprecated) identify-msg capability, which adds a '-' or '+' prefix to every PRIVMSG/NOTICE body indicating whether the sender was identified to services or not, that decreases the maximum available size by one. And there's no possible way a bot can know if the recipient (or *any* recipient when sending to a channel) 
> 1622900933 449019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> has that on. So it has to either pessimistically assume and send one byte less it could, or just accept that if someone does use it, they might get the last byte truncated.
> 1622900939 66403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Fortunately that extension's pretty dead by now.)
> 1622900971 688820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I was sort of wondering about turning on "account-tag" for #esolangs logs, because then you could validate whether someone using a nickname was doing so legitimately, when reading the logs, but I don't know if that would *really* be worth the hassle.
> 1622901373 423803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Also I don't know how I'd present it when rendering. It's easy to come up with ways to indicate a single bit of information, but that doesn't quite suffice for the case where account != nickname.)
> 1622901924 532247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> hm...
> 1622901948 849595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> fizzie: mouseover text?
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> 1622902183 278160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I guess there's that. I could add a superscript '?' between the nickname and the closing '>' for unidentified, and a superscript '*' with mouseover text denoting the account for the mismatch case, and leave the unannotated version for the common case where both are the same. Though it's not like impostors have been a particular problem.
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> 1622902409 269656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> probably not worth it
> 1622902736 800337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84027&oldid=67699 5* 03Grs 5* (-2) 10Fixed some grammar issues
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> 1622904350 610775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84028&oldid=84026 5* 03Grs 5* (+54) 10
> 1622904393 76947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84029&oldid=84028 5* 03Grs 5* (+1) 10
> 1622904797 427897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OneLineNoMoreLinesNeeded14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84030 5* 03Grs 5* (+20) 10Redirected page to [[OLNMLN]]
> 1622905152 477279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84031&oldid=63534 5* 03MathR 5* (+279) 10/* Every valid command in W with explanations (inputs replaced with X) */
> 1622905318 795062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84032&oldid=84031 5* 03MathR 5* (+188) 10/* Error codes */
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> 1622908374 564709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84033&oldid=84029 5* 03Grs 5* (+14) 10Added output for example at stop command.
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> 1622911339 653108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minsky Swap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84034&oldid=76190 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+440) 10/* Computational Class */ Category proposal
> 1622912490 954325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hmmm
> 1622912536 455147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> there are operations on top of the stack, and there are some stack-based languages that have multiple stacks with operations of, for example, swapping top two stacks
> 1622912554 77567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> imagine the stack to be 2 dimensional
> 1622912581 824975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so there is the zero-corner and two axes
> 1622912609 163378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so the "swap" instruction would swap two stacks on either of two axes
> 1622912655 315197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or actually it can always swap by the same axis but there would be an instruction of transposing the stack
> 1622912688 692589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minsky Swap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84035&oldid=79331 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+271) 10Completed PDA equivalence proof and added category
> 1622912732 704784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Forth has two stacks (a data stack and return stack), although some implementations have some additional stacks also
> 1622912998 154343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> istr befunge-98 has something called a "stack stack"
> 1622913034 515146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yep, but there are different sets of operations on the top stack and on the stack of stacks
> 1622913035 197239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It does, though there aren't that many operations that operate on any but the topmost stack.
> 1622913071 412770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i guess it probably doesn't have a transpose command :P
> 1622913078 548394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> You can push on a new stack, pop off an old stack, and then there's one bulk transfer operation to either direction, that's about it.
> 1622913125 59509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Also modifications of the stack stack annoyingly also modify the storage origin (that g/p coordinates are relative to), which isn't always that convenient.
> 1622913143 266590 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> huh
> 1622913201 384091 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The sequence of instructions to do either of those on its own (just change the offset, or manipulate the stack stack) is annoyingly convoluted, though doable.
> 1622913250 524109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minsky Swap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84036&oldid=84035 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+250) 10/* Computational class */ A little more detail
> 1622913286 87860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The "push a new stack" instruction { sets the new offset to the location of the next instruction executed after the {, somewhat bizarrely; it also pushes the old offset onto the old stack, so that } can read it from there. So a suitable {...} combo (with a bit of stack manipulation in-between) can set an arbitrary storage offset.
> 1622913370 875190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 0{<y><x>02-u0}$$ or something along those lines, assuming a two-dimensional Funge-98.
> 1622913492 33908 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I guess if you change all the instructions to work on the stack-stack level it won't work well though; I guess you'll want to push just a single value, not the whole vector of them, and it doesn't seem to be emulatable; so there should be some universal instruction modifier to "enable the stack-stack mode for the next instruction" or a defined
> 1622913492 151910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> subset of instructions that are modifiable
> 1622913811 919650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> need to find some other useful uses of transpose though, not just for the swap two top stacks instruction
> 1622913898 745500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> How does transpose work with stacks of different sizes? Is it just assumed to be an infinite expanse of 0s beyond the bottom, like a Befunge stack? 
> 1622913943 646298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I couldn't implement the brainfuck in rasel because it needs at least two stacks -- one for befunge runtime and one for the stack of [] loops
> 1622913967 141685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yep, automatically expand to make the rectangle
> 1622914092 211274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the potential "push the N value onto the every stack" would either work in a way that demands a strict definition of how the stacks expand or in the way of lazy pushes
> 1622914162 709133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> i.e. when you push a new stack of Ns it's infinitely long and when you need to expand another axis it should remember to push additional Ns when needed
> 1622914235 259599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (still need to find a use case of such N-stack-push though)
> 1622914695 891948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: don't turn it on please. if you want to get that information, get it from the other extensions.
> 1622914735 598658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> What's the problem with it? 
> 1622914771 753612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: the truncated byte, plus it only tells you one but, not what the actual account name is
> 1622914782 408656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's identify-msg, not account-tag.
> 1622914801 845742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oh, you want the proper non-depreciated thing?
> 1622914804 999809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> sure, you can turn it on if you want
> 1622914819 123129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I mean don't turn on the old depreciated identify-msg thing
> 1622914856 961304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> except maybe on freenode but only if we run out of reasonable ways to filter bridge forward spam
> 1622914862 416527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but I don't think it will come to that
> 1622914879 323531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> if it gets that far, we should just quiet unidentified there
> 1622914881 540553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, I don't know if I want account-tag or not. I just noticed it got turned on for my potential future personal logs when using pounce, even without asking.
> 1622914909 1437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: does account-tag tell you more than the old combo whox+account+extjoin
> 1622914910 294263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ?
> 1622914922 7239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I haven't experimented with account-tag yet
> 1622914928 575311 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It tells you the account for private messages without asking specifically, which of course doesn't matter for #esolangs logs.
> 1622914940 387261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ah I see
> 1622914951 395196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> does it tell only the account name, or something more about the account too?
> 1622914962 487372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Just the account name.
> 1622914965 386557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> thanks
> 1622915726 210366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> PostScript has several stacks, including the operand stack, execution stack (which can be read but cannot be directly manipulated), the dictionary stack (which stores only dictionaries and the bottom three items cannot be removed), the graphics stack, the clipping stack (stored in the graphics stack), and possibly others that I forgot. There are also VM saves, too.
> 1622915805 864968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (Allowing the execution stack to be altered directly might allow you to implement some more sophisticated functions, such as continuations perhaps)
> 1622915855 611120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (and also like FORGET does in INTERCAL, too, maybe)
> 1622916022 175522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "... needs at least two stacks -- one for befunge runtime and ..." - s/befunge/brainfuck
> 1622916161 493350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Free Hero Mesh has four stacks: the operand stack, the call stack (which also includes the Self variable, as well as internal functions), the message stack (which stores all message variables other than Self), and the pattern stack (used for backtracking when a pattern match fails).
> 1622916255 837666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> For implementing loops like the [] loops in brainfuck, there is perhaps three ways, which is to convert to GOTO like Forth does, to use a execution stack like PostScript does, or to seek forward and backward each time when executing the loop.
< 1622916479 125379 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622917785 294110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Michal Atlas 5*  10New user account
> 1622917940 704118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03ResU 5*  10moved [[02A programming language is a formal language comprising a set of instructions that produce various kinds of output.10]] to [[A programming language is a formal language comprising a set of strings that produce various kinds of output.]]: Wikipedia first sentence change
< 1622918286 875428 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1622918658 915330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84039 5* 03Grs 5* (+9192) 10Created page with "Not to be confused with [[OLNMLN]]  OLNMLNE or OneLineNoMoreLinesNeededinEntropy is a programming language that is almost the same as [[OLNMLN]]. It was written by ~~~. The di..."
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> 1622921391 904989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84040&oldid=84033 5* 03Grs 5* (+29) 10
> 1622921466 270775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84041&oldid=84039 5* 03Grs 5* (+26) 10
> 1622921500 113298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84042&oldid=84041 5* 03Grs 5* (+2) 10/* See also */
> 1622921717 503336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84043&oldid=84042 5* 03Grs 5* (-4) 10
> 1622923255 451199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84044&oldid=76076 5* 03Grs 5* (+175) 10
> 1622923331 762081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84045&oldid=79025 5* 03Grs 5* (-2) 10
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> 1622923587 505665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest9> new here
> 1622923598 341441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> `welcome Guest9
> 1622923601 302052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Guest9: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
> 1622923637 836456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest9> https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ResU is who I am
< 1622924065 811008 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1622924108 428850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84047&oldid=84040 5* 03Grs 5* (-17) 10
> 1622924147 873184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84048&oldid=84047 5* 03Grs 5* (+8) 10
> 1622924176 87230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84049&oldid=84043 5* 03Grs 5* (-1) 10
> 1622924191 150854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84050&oldid=84049 5* 03Grs 5* (-1) 10
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> 1622924567 251655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OHE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84051 5* 03ResU 5* (+283) 10Created page with "```OHE``` is an esolang created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. Every program prints "Hello, world!". ==Examples== ===Hello, world!=== <pre></pre> ===Quine=== <pre>Hello, world!</pr..."
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> 1622925069 294669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OHE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84052&oldid=84051 5* 03ResU 5* (+0) 10
> 1622925547 876101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84053&oldid=83842 5* 03Kantoros1 5* (-1139) 10Simplified the code examples, NDBall is much more capable than it seems. 99 bottles of beer program takes up only 4 dimensions, but has almost 450 instructions.
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> 1622927279 532638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84054&oldid=84053 5* 03Kantoros1 5* (+257) 10Added an external link to 99 bottles program
> 1622928085 345201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Newton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84055&oldid=81677 5* 03Grs 5* (+3302) 10
> 1622928477 335264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Newton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84056&oldid=84055 5* 03Grs 5* (+44) 10/* I made a interpreter */
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> 1622930064 398069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Newton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84057&oldid=84056 5* 03Grs 5* (+63) 10
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> 1622932052 982858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07,,,14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84058&oldid=77285 5* 03ResU 5* (+0) 10fixed typo
> 1622933040 767931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COVID-1914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84059&oldid=74249 5* 03ResU 5* (+50) 10
> 1622933983 5191 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Milk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84060&oldid=83583 5* 03Salmmanfred 5* (+85) 10/* Implementations */
> 1622934997 839210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84061&oldid=31062 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+1040) 10I'm not sure about "evaluates to true" but I think non-zero numbers evaluate to true, so it should be pretty easy to implement a Minsky machine.
> 1622936284 215305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Programming Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84062&oldid=78372 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+8) 10Name change
> 1622936297 681594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5*  10moved [[02A programming language is a formal language comprising a set of strings that produce various kinds of output.10]] to [[A programming language is a formal language comprising a set of strings that produce various kinds of machine code output.]]: The name changed
> 1622936393 702244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84065&oldid=84046 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+40) 10/* Why is the article still in the unimplemented category? */ Un-unsigned
> 1622937229 89836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Whitespace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84066&oldid=79816 5* 03Andrewarchi 5* (+136) 10Add ws-corpus
> 1622938764 897497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Neural Brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84067 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+214) 10Created page with "==s Command== This is Turing complete, if the s command is allowed to be a [[Spoon]] implementation that maps programs to their output. ;) ~~~~"
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> 1622939809 533142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84068&oldid=84061 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+25) 10This seems to be more accurate given the examples.
> 1622939823 391937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84069&oldid=84068 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+0) 10
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> 1622940848 937520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84070&oldid=78013 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+443) 10
> 1622941110 758758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84071&oldid=84070 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+222) 10/* HelVM */ Reply
> 1622941170 973462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84072&oldid=83801 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+171) 10/* Test */ new section
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< 1622943444 8192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie NICK :fizzie_
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> 1622951557 643637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> heh
> 1622951633 654979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I found how to get the value 129 in RASEL using 7 instructions without 0..9A..Z
> 1622951659 41103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> previous 7 long way to do it was C1B//3-
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< 1622954229 707320 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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> 1622954341 359850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> :)
> 1622954957 932289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Comments should be written in baby talk whenever possible. /* We truncy-wuncate the stringy-wingy we were given and we push-push-push it onto the stacky-wacky, don't we? Yes we do! Yes we do! */
> 1622954971 119906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (c)  Chris Pressey
> 1622955011 103160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> stacky-wacky-based language
> 1622955042 589186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> n
> 1622955043 13238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> o
> 1622955249 333087 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I agree with all these points: https://programmers.blogoverflow.com/2012/08/20-controversial-programming-opinions/
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> 1622956024 916048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I also agree with what is written there
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> 1622959981 81711 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03GotCubes 5*  10New user account
> 1622960021 350339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Nellephant14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84073&oldid=65275 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+377) 10Regular expression output
> 1622960186 284369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84074&oldid=84005 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+224) 10/* Introductions */
> 1622962858 102781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84075&oldid=83994 5* 03Nakilon 5* (-11) 10/* Ruby */ this is very debatable
> 1622963362 967764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tape article says "See Category:Cell-based for more tape-based esolangs. " that is in my opinion confusing
> 1622963449 758655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the tape in brainfuck and the program space in befunge are different things; in brainfuck the moving pointer is accesing the data while in befunge it's accessing the instructions
> 1622963500 593436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> while that data access in befunge is random, not using the left/right instructions but  p and g
> 1622963534 99550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I think it's a mistake to call the befunge program space an analogue of tape
> 1622963600 990234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wiki is synonymizing them
> 1622964238 855421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<u32[m|gr]> ／!\ ΤᎻΙЅ СНᎪΝNEL ΗАS MOVᎬᎠ ᎢⲞ ΙRϹ.LΙᗷΕRΑ．ϹHAT ﹟HAᎷRΑᎠIO /ⵑ\
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> 1622966441 819254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> nakilon: I think I disagree. If I saw a language that's like brainfuck but with random access instructions, I'd think it's very like brainfuck, and if I saw a language like befunge, but with a program space data pointer that you can move about, I'd think it's very like befunge
< 1622966625 200652 :LKoen!~LKoen@243.169.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
> 1622966647 498014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yes, because the brainfuck tape and befunge space are different things
> 1622966746 978793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's why I see no reason to have the link to "cell-based" saying "to read more about tape-based" (and vise versa)
> 1622966763 429756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I don't think they're very different things at all
> 1622966823 348358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> tape means you have a pointer than you instruct to shift its position by delta
> 1622966824 337942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Only from a distance :(
> 1622966829 311164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> cell based ness
> 1622966838 456694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> cell-basedness says nothing about the pointer
> 1622967036 345425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> in brainfuck the data pointer and the instruction pointer are different things, operating isolated; in befunge they are mixed together by using the program space as memory
> 1622967092 762355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> befunge isn't more tape-based than C
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> 1622977521 546197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Newton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84076&oldid=84057 5* 03Grs 5* (-63) 10
> 1622978368 414655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Newton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84077&oldid=84076 5* 03Grs 5* (+922) 10Added Hello World! program
> 1622979214 363736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I agree that fungespace doesn't feel particularly tape-y, but I don't think the fact that it merges the data and instruction pointers together is what makes the difference.
> 1622979219 421165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There are a number of brainfuck flavors that do the same (make the "data pointer" also operate on the program itself), and those are just as "tape-based" as regular brainfuck.
> 1622979222 422655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Anyway, the "see Category:Cell-based for more tape-based esolangs" doesn't imply that all languages in the category would be tape-based; it just says there are some tape-based ones in it, which can't really be argued against, when probably half of them (exaggerating, but not by much) are derivatives of brainfuck, *the* tape-based language.
> 1622979465 305253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Magnogen 5*  10New user account
> 1622979815 884363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84078&oldid=84074 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+191) 10/* Introductions */
> 1622980448 600107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Magnogen14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84079 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+751) 10Created page with "Hey!  My name's Magnogen, but you can call me Mag - my friends call me that anyway. I like to code, even though it causes my great pain sometimes.  I've been making a few prog..."
> 1622980469 583117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Magnogen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84080&oldid=84079 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+3) 10
> 1622980489 69791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Magnogen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84081&oldid=84080 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+4) 10
> 1622980499 898708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Magnogen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84082&oldid=84081 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+1) 10
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> 1622980947 439407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hah, the X.509 subject identifier of the certificate you-know-who uses to connect contains the component "O = Fungot Engineering", and I had completely forgotten putting it there.
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> 1622983077 462213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> there was a CS:GO skin few years ago in Steam Market that costed $0.1, I was thinking about buying a thousand of them
> 1622983089 951439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> now they cost $17 ..\
> 1622983231 394220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> maybe I had to make a script to keep track of those but I didn't bother to
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> 1622986304 494018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> fizzie do threads in funge-98 have own stacks?
> 1622986499 332958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or is it only one
> 1622986605 714588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I guess it's one and threads are just pointers, hm
> 1622987274 421016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84083&oldid=84048 5* 03Grs 5* (+369) 10
> 1622987773 482795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> <nakilon> I guess it's one and threads are just pointers, hm <-- that sounds like it would be hard to program
> 1622987883 772120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i don't, should i be happy? :P
> 1622988082 77148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> . o O ( maybe it deadlocked )
> 1622988125 689508 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> apathiclocked
> 1622991390 671322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> nakilon: No, each thread has a separate stack.
> 1622991419 959727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> nakilon: It's the (lesser-known) Befunge-97 or -96 (I forget which) where each thread shares the same stack, and doesn't even get its own stack pointer.
> 1622991453 690177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Or more precisely, separate stack -> separate stack stack.
> 1622991519 406817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://quuxplusone.github.io/Fungus/docs/spec98.html#Concurrent "When a child IP is borne unto Funge-Space thus, its location, storage offset, and stack are all copied verbatim from the parent IP's."
> 1622991533 382479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> "In Concurrent Funge, IP's are sometimes called threads and each has its own location, delta, and stack."
> 1622991674 711479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I feel like the fact that -97's shared stack was practically impossible to program (you'd have to cycle-count everything to prevent the separate IPs from trampling all over what they're doing) is why 98 is the one that really "made it".
> 1622991685 520178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://catseye.tc/article/Languages.md#befunge-97 "Befunge-97 was an unimplemented attempt to design a successor to Befunge-93. The design, however, was not successful — it has been described as "brain-damaged" — primarily due to the fact that separate processes were specified as sharing a single stack."
> 1622992124 72058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> at least it's definitely esoteric :P
> 1622992472 35102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84084&oldid=84054 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+99) 10/* 99 Bottles of beer on the wall */
> 1622992711 275414 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall/Program Archive14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84085 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+77) 10Created page with "{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed nowrap" |+ | name |- |text |}"
> 1622992879 92222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall/Program Archive14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84086&oldid=84085 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-5) 10
< 1622993242 875135 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1622993487 339668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Let's see if I could convince fungot to run under OpenRC's experimental service-supervisor, because why stick with something that works when you can introduce a new piece of nonsense in? 
> 1622993487 673066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: and if a lot of things to start getting such an awareness?? oh, yeh!! first you need to have +x attributes for the query.
> 1622993506 75155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That sounds vaguely unsettling, but I'll still go ahead with it.
> 1622993631 971965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest9> NOTNEW
> 1622993643 98624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest9> I WAS HERE YESTERDAY
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> 1622994040 746523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> VERY LOUD
> 1622994093 386963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> fungot: Did you gain some new kind of awareness from the new setup? 
> 1622994093 533547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: the .deb worked here. hope it didn't break my notify like it did?
> 1622994112 159691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> int-e: no. the scsh manual is??? what about cfunge???
> 1622994130 194453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> fungot: ...you've installed a .deb package in your new Alpine-based container? What are you even doing? 
> 1622994130 407555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: it's hard in basic english....... huh.......interesting....... what kind of game, like e.g. procedure 6949 ( unnamed in fnord
> 1622994140 247590 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> int-e: let tcl parse for me.
> 1622994151 714554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Spoilers: it's cfunge.)
> 1622994151 995619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> int-e: unless it divides by 0 in which case, treating it as a multimedia message to myself with the task of adding 10 directories to a list which the last element
> 1622994203 98947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> In retrospect, having a service manager that can restart it isn't *incredibly* useful for a bot that doesn't know how to auto-join any channels.
> 1622994261 291718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> int-e: must've been some tasteless slashem feature :) about 35 c today... it's warm
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> 1622994282 618762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> In a sense it's a fail-safe feature, because it also doesn't know how to persist the ignore list, so this way I can pre-set it before telling it to join.
> 1622994319 250163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> fungot: Are you measuring inside your chassis or something? I mean, it *is* warm, but it's not 35°C warm.
> 1622994319 531763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: " today in practice, i don't remember having been surprised. we can thank anselm for this wonderfully cyclic " proof."
> 1622994355 434006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> temp1:        +37.0°C   // well, pretty close
> 1622994401 762253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> fungot: Actually, how did you get access to those sensors, you're supposed to be running in a KVM thing? 
> 1622994401 948532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> fizzie: cookie monster used to scare me as a sort of regex, except limited, something that evaluate lambda calculus in haskell notation.
> 1622994413 610049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Fine, be that way. Uppity bot.
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> 1622994964 481558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I could write a script to my own irssi instance to periodically check if it's missing; if so, whois it to verify it's connected and authenticated; then set that ignore list and tell it to join. But maybe it's just easier to fix those things in the Befunge code.
> 1622995457 465273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> `addquote <fizzie> I could write a script to my own irssi instance to periodically check if it's missing; if so, whois it to verify it's connected and authenticated; then set that ignore list and tell it to join. But maybe it's just easier to fix those things in the Befunge code.
> 1622995460 905453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> 1333) <fizzie> I could write a script to my own irssi instance to periodically check if it's missing; if so, whois it to verify it's connected and authenticated; then set that ignore list and tell it to join. But maybe it's just easier to fix those things in the Befunge code.
< 1622996286 305822 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx NICK :ornxka2
< 1622996319 510793 :ornxka2!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx NICK :ornxka
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> 1622996674 635389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> haha
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> 1623002285 482383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/ntnsrs/the_logic_gate_adventure/
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> 1623003740 752477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84087 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+3216) 10Created FourQueue
> 1623003803 763092 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84088&oldid=84012 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+16) 10/* F */ Added FourQueue
> 1623003877 352773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84089&oldid=83989 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+89) 10Added FourQueue
> 1623004585 908346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84090 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+4) 10Created page with "Temp"
> 1623005403 966616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84091&oldid=84090 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+1495) 10
> 1623005940 34234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84092&oldid=84087 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+11) 10Changed because having a 0 in front is a huge issue. This language may need work still.
> 1623005962 230598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84093&oldid=84091 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+1237) 10/* Instructions */
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> 1623006094 774368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84094&oldid=84093 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+9) 10/* Instructions */
> 1623006125 972049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84095&oldid=84094 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+28) 10/* Instructions */
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> 1623006294 111410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84096&oldid=84095 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+167) 10/* Instructions */
> 1623006317 471785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84097&oldid=84092 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+127) 10/* Computational class */
> 1623006407 665013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84098&oldid=84097 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+1) 10/* Computational class */
> 1623006492 292849 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84099&oldid=84096 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+4) 10
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> 1623006601 757608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84100&oldid=84099 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+280) 10
> 1623006616 80982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84101&oldid=84100 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+15) 10/* Hello, world! in Purl */
> 1623006618 481551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84102&oldid=84098 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-11) 10Undo revision 84092 by [[Special:Contributions/Caenbe|Caenbe]] ([[User talk:Caenbe|talk]]) Never mind, I'm an idiot. I will leave this as-is unless someone has a good objection.
> 1623006713 797233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84103&oldid=84101 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+803) 10/* Hello, world! in Purl */
> 1623006737 775948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84104&oldid=84103 5* 03GotCubes 5* (-443) 10/* Hello, world! in Purl */
> 1623006752 958942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84105&oldid=84104 5* 03GotCubes 5* (-362) 10/* Hello, world! in Purl */
> 1623007047 417313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84106&oldid=84105 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+10) 10/* Hello, world! in Purl */
> 1623007241 970517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84107&oldid=84106 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+568) 10/* Hello, world! in Purl */
> 1623007410 345732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84108&oldid=84107 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+192) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1623007672 342639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84109&oldid=84108 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+498) 10/* Truth Machine */
> 1623007903 129988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84110&oldid=84109 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+318) 10/* 4-Function Calculator */
> 1623007938 320262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84111&oldid=84110 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+30) 10/* 4-Function Calculator */
> 1623008258 482572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84112&oldid=84111 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+800) 10/* 4-Function Calculator */
> 1623008373 122668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84113&oldid=84112 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+1) 10
> 1623008404 221063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84114&oldid=84113 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+72) 10
> 1623008561 684253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03GotCubes 5*  10moved [[02Purl10]] to [[*Purl]]
> 1623008584 785832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84117&oldid=84115 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+4) 10
> 1623008628 895041 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84118&oldid=84117 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+0) 10/* Example Programs */
> 1623008678 29958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84119&oldid=84118 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+50) 10
> 1623008693 552034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84120&oldid=84119 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+1) 10
> 1623009288 151955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84121&oldid=84089 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+95) 10Organized my langs a bit
> 1623009432 858111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84122&oldid=84120 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+257) 10
> 1623009534 714541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03GotCubes 5*  10moved [[02*Purl10]] to [[Purl]] over redirect
> 1623009534 721984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03GotCubes 5*  10GotCubes deleted redirect [[02Purl10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[*Purl]]"
> 1623009567 456200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84125&oldid=84123 5* 03GotCubes 5* (-91) 10
> 1623009653 538951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84126&oldid=84088 5* 03GotCubes 5* (+11) 10/* P */
> 1623009973 471211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84127&oldid=84102 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+47) 10/* Programs */ Extra detail
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> 1623010981 590396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> "space" is often used for whitespace, so searching is difficult; are there documented languages whose objects are spaces?
> 1623011055 560702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Metric spaces, topological spaces, combinatoric spaces, I'm not choosy. (I'm not Chu-sey? Chu spaces would be okay too.)
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< 1623012106 419096 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Hmmm
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> 1623013901 640944 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Oh, whose values are spaces. It's pretty common for a language to have types as spaces, like a space of numbers or a space of strings. But I want to manipulate spaces as values.
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> 1623015272 497217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84128&oldid=84127 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+12) 10Formatting; switch to Unicode
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> 1623017327 535797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I've been looking into topology of esolangs recently. I was trying to make a funge on an n-torus playfield, but have realised befunge and Rasel with jumps (trampoline/bridge) are just as n-torusy as what I had in mind
> 1623017523 552867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I'm in the process of writing a tool to graph the control flow of various languages to get an idea of how they can be embedded, to discover what kind of graph can be embedded on an (n>1)-torus  
> 1623017612 793941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> It does BCT, brainfuck, and python (to some extend; it ignores function calls atm). Next step is Befunge / Rasel. I'm especially interested in how rotations differ from reflections in the graph, and how to represent that.
> 1623017780 492588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Relating to the space question, I had thought of making each program symbol a 2d region on a surface rather that a point, which is what they seem to be by default. Rotations in space would then be real rotations in space, not just choosing a labelled edge to move to
> 1623017801 711302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> That's all program space topology though, not data space
> 1623018334 258255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Hm, I have a WIP 2D rewriting language that has stalled. That might benefit from being thought of as "space rewriting" rather than graph (or net) rewriting
> 1623019589 137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainDots14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84129 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+595) 10init
> 1623020748 713291 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Purl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84130&oldid=84125 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+4) 10Grammar
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> 1623021927 513123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minsky Swap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84131&oldid=84036 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+2) 10/* Computational class */ Nice codeboxes
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> 1623024735 127499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainDots14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84132&oldid=84129 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10Category
< 1623024743 923375 :fizzie_!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1623025119 334808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm. I wasn't *actually* planning to disconnect that other client yet, but I guess it made the decision for me. Tried to connect to it from this local system, but the client here went "SSL handshake failed: dh key too small" and apparently the bouncer process just died.
> 1623030231 840886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84133&oldid=84128 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+15) 10/* Programs */ Changed section to Syntax and reworded
> 1623033374 237632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84134&oldid=84133 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+0) 10Wording
< 1623034975 913530 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623035211 771914 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623035224 293740 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623040938 813038 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623040955 844355 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623041210 430157 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623041225 905848 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623041787 613742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Complack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84135 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+176) 10Created page with "i personally think you should have an instruction to swap the elements of the current stack with another stack ~~~"
> 1623041971 954576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> https://github.com/brightly-salty/mlatu A reasonable progression in the series of concatenative languages named after cat words.
< 1623042898 784525 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
> 1623047062 698925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I'm thinking abot adding threads
> 1623047070 391126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> to implement multiple stacks
> 1623047113 794073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the threaded instruction pointer will sleep on instructions that wait for a value pushed from another stack
> 1623047118 30899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *another thread
> 1623047211 969045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> smth like "t" to convert to two threads on the next two cells (not sure yet if you should copy the stack)
> 1623047274 914195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "0p" to push to higher thread; "1p" to push to lower thread; "g" to wait until smth is pushed in and jump on two next cells based on from which of two thread neighbours the value came from
> 1623047382 763396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> mayba i and o instead of g and p
> 1623047390 812240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> damn typos
> 1623048042 275037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> here is something threaded https://esolangs.org/wiki/Rui
> 1623052793 137909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Curlyfrick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84136&oldid=75249 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+0) 10added dot
> 1623052836 918828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Curlyfrick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84137&oldid=84136 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+10) 10made a bit clearer
> 1623057486 994570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03D-Lord 5*  10New user account
> 1623063462 490722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84138&oldid=84078 5* 03D-Lord 5* (+209) 10/* Introductions */
> 1623063522 494934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:D-Lord14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84139 5* 03D-Lord 5* (+322) 10Created page with "Hey ho.  And welcome to this strange corner of the interwebs. I'm D-Lord or Denis and like most other users in here interested in many different things including esolangs.  Th..."
< 1623069384 122914 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623069462 643661 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623069479 293952 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623069772 354733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NDBall/Program Archive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84140&oldid=84086 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+40) 10.
> 1623070167 697957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03ProtoBit 5*  10New user account
< 1623070694 227196 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1623070785 497044 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84141&oldid=84138 5* 03ProtoBit 5* (+201) 10/* Introductions */
< 1623070912 941160 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1623071454 334749 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623073079 121921 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623074905 932065 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623075162 615178 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623075179 304049 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623076138 392782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84142 5* 03Grs 5* (+1021) 10Created page with "== Welcome == Welcome to the talk section of OLNMLN! ===== Please read: ===== * Please don't remove anything, except if it's yours! * Don't swear or use bad words! * Don't hur..."
> 1623076409 605755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84143&oldid=84142 5* 03Grs 5* (+81) 10
< 1623077378 382052 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
< 1623077536 228009 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-026.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1623077789 628670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84144&oldid=84050 5* 03Grs 5* (+69) 10/* Commands */
< 1623078716 630590 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
< 1623080324 269447 :LKoen!~LKoen@243.169.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
> 1623082468 57931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue/Interpreter.py14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84145 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+3568) 10Added interpreter
> 1623082663 974614 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84146&oldid=84134 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+382) 10Added interpreter
> 1623082991 487357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84147&oldid=84146 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+479) 10Added example
> 1623083036 979391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84148&oldid=84147 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+2) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1623083165 300627 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-085.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esoteric Melvar :melvar
> 1623083282 192474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest60> Hi, I recently finished writing a language I want to make a page for but have tried and failed to make an account at least a dozen times now. Can anyone help me out?
> 1623083291 356222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest60> this is the language https://github.com/KyleM73/AHHH
> 1623083311 646481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest60> thanks in advance!! :)
> 1623083777 905493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> Guest60: what's your problem with the account?
> 1623084512 24778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue/Interpreter.py14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84149&oldid=84145 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+20) 10
< 1623084791 551327 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623084805 940842 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623084814 932231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84150 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+4047) 10Created page with "FolderCode is an esoteric programming language created by Dominicentek. It's main gimmick is that it's written as a folder structure with names being commands. FolderCode comp..."
> 1623084842 853010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue/Interpreter.py14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84151&oldid=84149 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+17) 10
> 1623084843 377253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84152&oldid=84150 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+73) 10/* Examples */
> 1623084999 770538 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84153&oldid=84152 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+37) 10
> 1623085019 216292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: you are summoned for Guest60
< 1623085062 742064 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623085079 293979 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623085096 45689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84154&oldid=84153 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-51) 10
> 1623085158 740257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84155&oldid=84154 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-19) 10
> 1623085407 440975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84156&oldid=84155 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+17) 10
> 1623085566 488361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84157&oldid=84126 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-11) 10/* F */
> 1623085618 361015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm.
> 1623085652 472512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I don't know what could be the problem with registration -- as recently as earlier today "ProtoBit" seemed to be able to register.
> 1623085787 264622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There's that Befunge captcha, of course. But it uses a relatively limited subset, I imagine any online Befunge interpreter would correctly execute it.
> 1623085940 193187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, as long as it has sufficiently large stack cells, anyway. Possibly there's a toy one somewhere that uses three-digit decimal numbers or whatnot.
< 1623086286 880705 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1623086850 458189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> Hi, is anyone able to help me make an account? I was guest60 before but I got disconnected
> 1623086906 979200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84158&oldid=84156 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+41) 10
> 1623087234 825762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> fizzie: ^
> 1623087383 995325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> . o O ( this isn't going to work )
> 1623087513 943700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ultlang 5*  10New user account
> 1623087654 61736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84159&oldid=84141 5* 03Ultlang 5* (+210) 10/* Introductions */
> 1623087817 483140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Delta Salein Ao14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84160 5* 03Ultlang 5* (+177) 10Created page with "Delta Salein Ao, Delta Salein  or  is a programming language created by Ultlang.  [[Category:Languages]][[Category:2021]][[Category:Cell-based]][[Category:Output only]]"
> 1623087876 557744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Delta Salein Ao14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84161&oldid=84160 5* 03Ultlang 5* (+59) 10yeaf
> 1623088111 339487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> How can I translate the Befudge code to make an account?
> 1623088166 718882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> `befunge does this work?
> 1623088169 578456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> befunge? No such file or directory
> 1623088177 221851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> apparently not
> 1623088201 260367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> Guest6018: any befunge interpreter should work
> 1623088229 960502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> to make an account it says:
> 1623088231 398114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> To protect the wiki against automated account creation, we kindly ask you to answer the question that appears below (more info):
> 1623088231 906374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> Which number does this Befunge code output: 9646332815>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
> 1623088238 178607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> `! befunge 9646332815>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
> 1623088239 453327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> 224408598
> 1623088242 525512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> whee!
> 1623088244 478032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> Guest6018: ^
> 1623088258 607412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> oh! that's handy!
> 1623088263 663558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kylem73 5*  10New user account
> 1623088270 755318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guest6018> thank you!!
> 1623088271 196206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> great
> 1623088358 762322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> . o O ( now for the second step )
> 1623088360 285504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Oh, I didn't even think of them bots.
> 1623088431 558007 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> But there's a number of online Befunge interpreters. We link to at least one from the Befunge article.
> 1623088455 296306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> does the captcha link to the Befunge article?
> 1623088496 700933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Although for some unfathomable reason all of them do this weird two-step procedure where, after you've input the program, you need to first click on an unintuitively labeled button ("Show", or "Init", or "To interpreter mode"; three real examples) before you can actually click on the intuitively labeled one ("Run") to execute it.
> 1623088507 918130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84162&oldid=84159 5* 03Kylem73 5* (+160) 10
> 1623088536 163832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I tried to make the captcha link to the Befunge article but MediaWiki does not allow HTML embedded in the captcha question.
> 1623088559 542919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's also why the code is typeset in a proportional font, which is pretty sacrilegious.
> 1623088608 670281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There is a link from the captcha page to [[Special:Captcha/help]] that could be edited to contain a link to the Befunge article, but I wonder if anyone would actually successfully navigate through all that.
> 1623088609 791053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> ic
< 1623088991 445373 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623089004 305639 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623089262 832184 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623089280 948624 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623089831 659206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> hehe
> 1623090094 154106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84163&oldid=84083 5* 03Grs 5* (+1037) 10Added changes (NOT IN CODE)
> 1623090223 343311 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84164&oldid=84163 5* 03Grs 5* (+18) 10
> 1623092035 336460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AHHH14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84165 5* 03Kylem73 5* (+4514) 10first save
> 1623092143 248278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AHHH14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84166&oldid=84165 5* 03Kylem73 5* (-27) 10not pseudonatural
> 1623092268 324286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AHHH14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84167&oldid=84166 5* 03Kylem73 5* (+16) 10
> 1623092339 777432 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AHHH14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84168&oldid=84167 5* 03Kylem73 5* (+11) 10cell based
< 1623092591 468830 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623092606 390029 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623092862 873055 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623092879 121839 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623095416 196850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FourQueue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84169&oldid=84148 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+0) 10/* Example */ Explanation was wrong
> 1623095913 711219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84170&oldid=84158 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+0) 10
> 1623096057 934186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84171&oldid=84170 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+0) 10
> 1623096729 337857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Delta Salein Ao14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84172&oldid=84161 5* 03Ultlang 5* (+412) 10
< 1623096791 480776 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623096806 356593 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623097062 887590 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623097080 952337 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623097391 618411 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623097409 119959 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623097662 639258 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623097679 328586 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623097956 728357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Whitespace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84173&oldid=84066 5* 03Andrewarchi 5* (-8) 10Update the Whitespace Corpus to the current URL
< 1623099355 863830 :LKoen!~LKoen@243.169.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1623100499 206855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84174&oldid=84069 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+9) 10/* Commands */ Appears to be more accurate (again, from looking at examples)
> 1623100594 605288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84175&oldid=84174 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+191) 10Computational class
< 1623101291 427815 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623101305 558584 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623101478 985543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84176 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+6488) 10created page
< 1623101563 9830 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623101609 376428 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623101643 414683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Movesum14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84177 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+310) 10Created talk page
> 1623101972 480789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84178&oldid=84176 5* 03S1(210) 5* (-3) 10
> 1623102120 566489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Andrew Phillips14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84179 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+192) 10Created page with "'''Andrew Phillips''' is a programmer and esolang author. He has created the languages [[DeBruijn]] and [[Forwards]]. He contributes on this wiki as [[User:S1(210)]]. ..."
> 1623102173 974916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DeBruijn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84180&oldid=83645 5* 03S1(210) 5* (-3) 10change user page link to author page link
> 1623102250 969955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:S1(210)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84181&oldid=83549 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+25) 10
> 1623102364 463687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84182&oldid=84178 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+7) 10
> 1623102404 633652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84183&oldid=84182 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+13) 10/* The let Clause */
> 1623102594 250415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84184&oldid=84183 5* 03S1(210) 5* (-20) 10/* Style */
> 1623102666 538476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84185&oldid=84184 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+0) 10/* Abstraction */
> 1623104298 330936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84186&oldid=84157 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+25) 10
> 1623108829 20606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84187&oldid=84164 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10/* Commands */ Fmt table
> 1623108932 428616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Movesum14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84188&oldid=75830 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Syntax and Semantics */ Fix example (thanks to Caenbe)
> 1623109130 739586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Movesum14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84189&oldid=84177 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+326) 10Reply
> 1623110003 372312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I found that Amiga has sound modulation. Why the MOD format does not include this command (perhaps the 8xx command)?
< 1623110591 615830 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
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> 1623110979 911969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0705ab1e14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84190 5* 03Monochromeninja 5* (+20) 10Just a redirect.
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> 1623115524 955438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84191 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+1656) 10Added PMMN conversion
> 1623115751 591561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84192&oldid=75036 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+311) 10Added TC proof
> 1623115929 915995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84193&oldid=84185 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+14) 10/* Feature Specification */
> 1623116168 465864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84194&oldid=72857 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+759) 10
> 1623116211 823325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84195&oldid=84194 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+45) 10/* Instructions */
> 1623116764 36445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84196&oldid=84191 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+24) 10Back button
> 1623116802 255170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84197&oldid=84195 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+514) 10/* Instructions */
> 1623116867 405191 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84198&oldid=84196 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-1) 10Fixed mistake
> 1623116880 321831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84199&oldid=84198 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-2) 10
> 1623116968 227600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TheCoderPro14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84200 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+5) 10Created page with "hello"
> 1623116998 36898 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:TheCoderPro14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84201 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+69) 10Created page with "HI -~~~"
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> 1623117572 460249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84202&oldid=84186 5* 03MartinAsdf 5* (+15) 10added stackomp
> 1623117801 537580 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84203&oldid=84192 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+43) 10The author wrote the interpreter, so I assume this was intended.
> 1623117942 967241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84204&oldid=84199 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-3) 10Of course, I'm so used to Python
> 1623117960 761025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84205&oldid=84204 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+1) 10
> 1623120939 50746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84206&oldid=84121 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+270) 10
< 1623121214 743709 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623123544 872860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OISC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84207&oldid=82771 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-1) 10/* List of OISCs */ The blues machine page does not say commands are memory-mapped, and the implementation (written by the creator) does not do it
> 1623125165 785695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:BytePushCore14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84208&oldid=19121 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+122) 10
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< 1623136439 984854 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
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< 1623139059 285833 :metcalf_!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com NICK :metcalf
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> 1623140435 714053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84209&oldid=84003 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (+48) 10/* Calculator */
< 1623141434 355622 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1623143503 744795 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN #esoteric * :CLOG (Channel LOGger) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/
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> 1623152217 80188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominicentek14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84210 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+34) 10Created page with "Hi there! I made: * [[FolderCode]]"
> 1623157355 982346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Set14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84211&oldid=76593 5* 03Jedgrei 5* (+0) 10
> 1623157857 760158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `?
> 1623157860 871788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1623157861 246892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `help
> 1623157861 403762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $HACKENV are persistent, and $HACKENV/bin is in $PATH. $HACKENV is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert, https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ to browse. $PWD ($HACKENV/tmp) is persistent but unversioned, /tmp is ephemeral.
> 1623158014 876020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `cat cat
> 1623158015 899500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> cat: cat: No such file or directory
> 1623158029 408705 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `which cat
> 1623158030 280827 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​/bin/cat
> 1623158036 34521 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `cat /bin/cat
> 1623158036 899648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​ELF............>.....�/......@.......��..........@.8..@.........@.......@.......@.......h......h...................�......�......�...........................................................�......�..................... ....... ....... ......�A......�A.....................p.......p.......p......�......�....................P�......P�......P�............�...................��......��......��......�.......�..............
> 1623158050 63600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what was the command to see cources of other commands?
> 1623158104 317675 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `? cat
> 1623158106 221557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
> 1623158313 49392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: for commands that are implemented as shell scripts or similar, yes, you can use cat or cbt or /bin/cat
> 1623158331 341690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: the user-defined commands are in /hackenv/bin
> 1623158343 716946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: there's also a whatis command
> 1623158347 20385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `whatis ?
> 1623158348 158992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​?(1hackeso) - print wisdom by name \ ?(8lambdabot) - compose tree of lambdabot commands
> 1623158355 151083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `whatis w
> 1623158356 250127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> w(1) - Show who is logged on and what they are doing. \ w(1hackeso) - print random wisdom matching a string
> 1623158361 523505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ``` w;q
> 1623158362 934483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​myth//A myth is a female moth. \ 1295) <boily> (there's also that thing with the small yellow guys that I refuse to aknowledge, and nobody has any proof I went to the theatre to watch it.)
< 1623158517 432900 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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> 1623158957 282917 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> cbt !
> 1623158959 991300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `cbt !
> 1623158960 994433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​#!/bin/bash \ CMD=`echo -n "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG="$(echo -n "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-)" \ exec $HACKENV/ibin/$CMD "$ARG$2"
> 1623158995 540825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `cbt cbt
> 1623158996 620164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> cat $HACKENV/bin/"$1"
> 1623159198 568545 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `? cruella
> 1623159200 455255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> cruella? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1623160233 854531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84212&oldid=84075 5* 03Batata 5* (+7913) 10
> 1623160401 387861 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84213&oldid=84171 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+117) 10/* Compiler, Runtime and Interpreter */
> 1623160894 792754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Numeric Underload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84214&oldid=43262 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+190) 10Cats and short blurb about the computational class
> 1623161614 883776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> does any Pokemon game have a nethack-like extinction mechanism where if you kill a lot of a certain species of pokemon then it will no longer get generated as random encounter wild pokemon?
> 1623161624 880935 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and if so, what is the earliest generation that has such a mechanic?
> 1623161632 487660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Not to my knowlege
> 1623161639 380498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> thanks
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< 1623164810 367127 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623168202 226616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Luduk 5*  10New user account
> 1623168493 671381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84215&oldid=84162 5* 03Luduk 5* (+264) 10Luduk joins the party! Hope you've got pizza!
> 1623169144 358651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84216&oldid=84187 5* 03Grs 5* (+352) 10
> 1623169189 221831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84217&oldid=84216 5* 03Grs 5* (-48) 10
> 1623169370 200950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84218&oldid=84202 5* 03Kylem73 5* (+11) 10added AHHH
> 1623169471 96421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84219&oldid=84217 5* 03Grs 5* (+91) 10
> 1623169548 128206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84220&oldid=83546 5* 03Kylem73 5* (+52) 10added AHHH
> 1623169708 165485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84221&oldid=84219 5* 03Grs 5* (+49) 10
> 1623171504 621594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84222&oldid=84221 5* 03Grs 5* (-132) 10
< 1623171822 180872 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
> 1623172084 63406 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sawcce 5*  10New user account
> 1623172139 919223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84223&oldid=84212 5* 03Grs 5* (+198) 10/* Implementations */ OLNMLN
> 1623172328 840045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84224&oldid=84215 5* 03Sawcce 5* (+251) 10/* Introductions */
> 1623172815 901040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84225&oldid=83978 5* 03ResU 5* (+79) 10
> 1623173663 968416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84226&oldid=83971 5* 03ResU 5* (+55) 10added .print
< 1623173964 205478 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN #esoteric sftp :sftp
> 1623174276 203653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Another Pi Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84227&oldid=18566 5* 03ResU 5* (+94) 10
> 1623175074 325628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84228&oldid=84213 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+194) 10
> 1623175493 206275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twitty14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84229 5* 03Luduk 5* (+870) 10twitty, the unreliable
> 1623175508 601620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twitty14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84230&oldid=84229 5* 03Luduk 5* (+4) 10
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> 1623177377 115183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84234&oldid=84228 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-73) 10/* Version 1.1 */
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> 1623181772 857492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84235 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+2990) 10Created Nu
> 1623181846 541464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84236&oldid=84218 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+9) 10/* N */ Added Nu
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> 1623182138 992564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2021/06/1920-2020-and-a-20000-prize-announcing-the-s-combinator-challenge/
> 1623182430 139071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> That is an interesting link.
> 1623182783 879268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> Taneb: that will either devolve in nobody caring, or another weird game of defining what it means like with the cellular automaton. 
> 1623182797 234779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> s/means/means,/
> 1623182879 771498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> b_jonas: if it's towards the latter then it may well be done by the people here
> 1623183266 801885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I'm now thinking through whether BCT can be done with S, and knowing the specific obstacle is for not being able to would be interesting to know
> 1623183876 851531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84238&oldid=84235 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+10) 10/* Graph rewriting */
> 1623183889 314648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Disproving it would be interesting too, esp. for $20K
> 1623184654 179715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I'm not sure how to prove it in a way Wolfram would accept, but in general to be Turing-complete means to have a Turing category, which means to be Cartesian closed, which means that K needs to exist in order to delete/forget unused values and have constant functions.
> 1623184735 833793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I wonder if there's a beautiful Smullyan proof somewhere that S can't build K. I can imagine a Hofstadter-style informal proof which shows that S can't ever tear down structures like K can.
> 1623185252 858638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> the S version of K presumably would shuffle arguments away to a 'discard zone', out of the way and effectively dropped. Is there any possible space for an infinite use discard pile with S?
> 1623185548 382642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Hm, maybe this suggests that S can't implement I alone. That would be pretty damning.
> 1623185645 212094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> Corbin: hmm, let me check the bird book. I know it at least states that it can't implement K, but I don't know if there's a proof given
> 1623185722 431023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nevermind14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84239&oldid=84209 5* 03OfficialCraftCGame 5* (-20) 10Edited segments of the wiki.
> 1623185728 449161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> chapter 12 is the relevant one
> 1623185814 420642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and then chapter 18\
> 1623185862 786619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> no, chapter 19
> 1623185961 1959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't think it give a full proof for this
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> 1623186213 321318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> No worries, thanks for looking.
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> 1623186742 528011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you might be able to find a proof somewhere else, or reconstruct it from as much as Smullyan reveals there
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> 1623186953 967963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> Corbin: do you need a summary of what he does say there that implies this?
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> 1623190536 1821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84241&oldid=84193 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+4868) 10/* Feature Specification */ Complete Rewrite
> 1623190863 257055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84242&oldid=84241 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+466) 10/* Reference */ reformatting...
> 1623190890 965426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84243&oldid=83530 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+281) 10/* Mathematics */ Idea
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> 1623192793 986552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84245&oldid=84244 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+1264) 10/* Arithmetic Built-ins */ Finally done reformatting?
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> 1623193277 787031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `? Earthblight Ganon
> 1623193279 769029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Earthblight Ganon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1623194862 178448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> `? ZZT
> 1623194863 861695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ZZT? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1623195159 372402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> `? Free Hero Mesh
> 1623195161 153779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Free Hero Mesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1623195590 560613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twitty14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84246&oldid=84231 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+80) 10/* Important note */ Categories
> 1623195792 808513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84247&oldid=84233 5* 03ResU 5* (+474) 10
> 1623195818 912136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84248&oldid=84243 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-28) 10/* Mathematics */ Link
> 1623196022 657004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84249&oldid=84247 5* 03ResU 5* (-6) 10
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> 1623196591 671752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84251&oldid=84238 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+831) 10Added 3 Star Programmer ex. and details about tree
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> 1623198110 436117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84253&oldid=84252 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+3) 10/* Examples */ ;;;
> 1623198757 14777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84254&oldid=84253 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+136) 10/* Graph rewriting */ It is
> 1623200217 439314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84255&oldid=84250 5* 03ResU 5* (+356) 10
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> 1623201075 589949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> b_jonas: Oh wow, glorious work. I pulled out my copy of the bird book, and indeed, kestrels are not allowed in Bravura's forest!
> 1623201650 798174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Okay, yeah. Smullyan points out that S is "duplicative", using arguments multiple times. The linear calculus, BCI, can't build S.
> 1623201662 16269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ski> 
ACTION first thought the bird book was Bird & de Moor

> 1623201683 978408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ski> yes, and `S' can't build `K'
> 1623201689 391164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Similarly, S can't build K, because K is "cancellative" and completely forgets an argument.
> 1623201725 242171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I found https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-444-87508-2.50017-4 which is paywalled but suggests that this is so well-known that they try to use BCSI to *approximate* K-like behavior while admitting that K itself is not buildable.
> 1623201857 856724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> ski: Oh, sorry. The context is that Wolfram offered a cash prize for anybody who can show that S is (Turing-?) complete. But I was sure that the bird book had a disproof, and b_jonas did the hard work of looking it up.
> 1623201888 738618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ski> mm, yea. (just finished reading that article)
> 1623201905 337014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ski> (the Wolfram blag)
> 1623202966 733187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84257&oldid=83239 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+198) 10Reformat command table
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> 1623204259 145378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Wolfram already says any TCness has to be encoded in the non-terminating S combinator evolutions, so a direct K build is already ruled out
> 1623204290 592170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Pokemon Card GB2 does not list the previous stages of cards in play
< 1623204292 218557 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( gnyrx ? )

> 1623204530 494469 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84259&oldid=84258 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+449) 10Add section explaining memory layout
> 1623204645 314923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> even Ix will need to be a non terminating encoding of x, so Kxy = Ix  in some non terminating way which can be decoded by something that is not universal itself
> 1623204786 765450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> relevant quote from the announcement > And by “emulate”, what we mean here is that a suitable “encoder”, “detector” and “decoder” can be found that will allow any evolution in the system being emulated to be mapped to a corresponding evolution in the S combinator system.
> 1623204876 52492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> salpynx: Can you explain more what you see? I would naively and reductively assume that the I combinator simply isn't represented here; there's no way to emulate its (lack of) evolution.
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> 1623204981 908128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84260&oldid=84254 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+13) 10Better wording
> 1623205167 463921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> It's not directly representable, but I guess that's the question: can it 'emulate' K's "cutting things down" via some kind of encoding? It'd have to include 'junk' data, which would have to be ignored by the decoder in the final step to get the result
< 1623205176 645429 :naptra!~naptra@78.157.87.195 JOIN #esoteric Naptra :realname
> 1623205207 229348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> more of Wolfram's writing linked to from somewhere in the announcement: https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2020/12/combinators-a-centennial-view/#the-world-of-the-s-combinator
> 1623205455 162127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Naively I wondered if you could use both sides of every K in every computation, then pick the 'real' one at the end. That'd be super inefficient with the combinatorics, and I don't know how you'd pick the correct version at the end. and it's probably more complicated than 'doing things twice' with K arguments 
> 1623205733 882799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I guess my take is that a working emulated K in this hypothetical system must accumulate 'junk' which can be 'easily' discerned from the result of computation by the hypothetical decoder. Examining whether that kind of mechanism is possible or not is an avenue of attack.
> 1623205807 437223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> My gut feel is any 'junk' would get smeared out through the whole combinatoric expression over time, and separating it won't be possible without doing an equivalent computation
> 1623206042 6168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> also that Wolfram is talking about some meta computation requiring those “encoder”, “detector” and “decoder” external parts to the system, and that's possibly, as was said above by @b_jonas: "another weird game of defining what it means"
> 1623206218 652682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I can imagine a giant stream of combinator S's which take a single K as an argument, and duplicates and places the Ks where they need to go for reproducing any algorithm. No idea if that's helpful, but it's playing with separating parts of the system
> 1623206251 969011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Although we know something about their shape, at least. The bounded-time description should lead (by a handwave) to the encoder and decoder being katamorphisms.
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> 1623206373 280349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> But note that the encoder can be as simple as the identity function, if we're targeting SKI, so the question is whether there's some composition of S alone which yields K and I. IOW I think we get back up to what's been covered.
> 1623206536 230025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Oh wow, https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/227904/solve-the-halting-problem-for-s-combinatory-logic implies that it's not Turing-complete. Reading the paper right now, but this could be it.
> 1623206863 817343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> That's a good find. 
> 1623206933 340297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> I think Wolfram know that though, and that's what I was picking up from his writing. To paraphrase what I think he's asking: Taking the infinite set of identifiable non-halting S Combinator expressions, is there some encoding which can give rise to an unresolvable halting problem in their evolutions? 
> 1623206996 40012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> (if there are not infinite non-halting evolutions, then it's really busted)
> 1623207068 115288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Let the codec be a genuine equivalence computable in poly time. Then wouldn't the codec's existence contradict Rice's Theorem?
> 1623207075 271811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> Re-reading my paraphrase, that does sound sketchy, but I think that's what Wolfram is really asking.
> 1623207098 892845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I don't want to unfairly strawman Wolfram's question, but I'm really not sure if there's more to it than that.
> 1623207236 297930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Meh, "genuine equivalence" is vague and wrong. This isn't yet airtight, but it's suggestive.
> 1623207532 605809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> wolfram's prize got its way to here, eh.
> 1623207570 100466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> for S to be TC on its own it would have to re-order the expression so that past work doesn't get in the way of current work. because it can't, it's not TC. more rigorous proofs of that exist.
> 1623208272 68235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Makes sense. It sounds like there's three different ways to slice that S isn't TC: S can't even implement K or I, Halting for S is decideable, and now imode's point about divergence and order of operations.
> 1623208422 442505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> it's probably equivalent to a pushdown.
> 1623208429 38385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Unrelated: https://github.com/TartanLlama/vizh Nice!
> 1623209681 381607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:S1(210)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84261&oldid=84181 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+346) 10
< 1623211351 617190 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split
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> 1623212145 983344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:S1(210)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84262&oldid=84261 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+67) 10
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> 1623212403 454260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84263&oldid=84236 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+15) 10/* F */ added [[Forwards]]
> 1623214512 570128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DeBruijn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84264&oldid=84180 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+40) 10making page conform more to esolang's style guide
> 1623214624 425971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DeBruijn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84265&oldid=84264 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+0) 10/* External Resources */
> 1623214681 485919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DeBruijn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84266&oldid=84265 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+1) 10/* External resources */
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> 1623219034 97599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84267&oldid=84260 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+595) 10Added Binary Nu
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> 1623233873 631063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RGB4D14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84268 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+3837) 10First commit
> 1623234576 207650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sekoia 5*  10New user account
> 1623234926 825757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84269&oldid=84224 5* 03Sekoia 5* (+102) 10Introduction
> 1623235010 510618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84270&oldid=84269 5* 03Sekoia 5* (+54) 10Fix messup
> 1623236292 554978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RGB4D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84271&oldid=84268 5* 03Magnogen 5* (-2) 10ProtoBit
< 1623236596 774199 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1623236709 391221 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 JOIN #esoteric spruit11 :I am unknown
> 1623237011 894156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Partitioned14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84272 5* 03Sekoia 5* (+1378) 10Partitioned is a language based around partitions of 255 bytes that share a single byte.
> 1623237066 343541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84273&oldid=84263 5* 03Sekoia 5* (+18) 10
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> 1623237160 182831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Partitioned14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84274&oldid=84272 5* 03Sekoia 5* (+0) 10fix category typo
> 1623237848 186550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tower14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84275 5* 03Sawcce 5* (+2933) 10Created page with "= Tower =  Tower is an esoteric language meaning it is designed to be fun to use or a headache to program in!  This page is a copy of the walkthrough of the Tower also present..."
> 1623237903 126289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tower14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84276&oldid=84275 5* 03Sawcce 5* (-2) 10/* Tower */
> 1623237951 113257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tower14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84277&oldid=84276 5* 03Sawcce 5* (+42) 10/* Tower */
> 1623238245 835569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tower14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84278&oldid=84277 5* 03Sawcce 5* (+726) 10/* Commands */
> 1623239616 969472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84279&oldid=84256 5* 03ResU 5* (+138) 10
> 1623240027 847026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Omgrofl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84280&oldid=58626 5* 03DeeBo 5* (+73) 10/* External resources */
< 1623240682 449277 :V!~v@anomalous.eu QUIT :Quit: We're here. We're queer. Connection reset by peer
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> 1623241204 800734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84281&oldid=84279 5* 03ResU 5* (+164) 10
> 1623241208 35084 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Partitioned14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84282&oldid=84274 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+40) 10Cats, stub, WIP
> 1623242014 740076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Meloons 5*  10New user account
> 1623242711 689716 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84283&oldid=84270 5* 03Meloons 5* (+200) 10My description
> 1623242820 167782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84284&oldid=84281 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10Cat
> 1623245240 348672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> Corbin: out of curiosity, is your IRC nick supposed to be from a bird too?
> 1623245347 744730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and if so, is it a combinator bird?
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> 1623246216 847758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> wait, so the norwegian/danish alphabet is supposed to have the last letters in the order "z æ ø å", but the swedish/finnish alphabet in the incompatible order "z å ä ö"? that decides my earlier question about encoding IRC nicks, the norwegian one is more natural because then the iso-646 encoding order matches the alphabet. but the different alphabetic order is still weird, I wonder how that got 
> 1623246222 833080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> invented.
> 1623246268 51340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I should have noticed this earlier because I've seen the swedish alphabetic order enough times and did look up the iso-646 encodings and should have noticed that it's in the wrong order
> 1623246646 45685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Russian alphabet ends with letters that are like a trash hidden in the corner of the room ШЩЪЫЬ and then suddenly perfectly normal vowels ЭЮЯ
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> 1623247146 764379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: 1. "Ю" is supposed to be a "normal vowel" but it's also one of the rarest letters, though admittedly "Ъ" is even rarer. I don't understand in what sense "Ш" is trash though. 2. the latin alphabet has trash letters too, in fact even the greek one has some at the end, and holes in the middle for the purpose of gemmatria, to preserve the original phoenician order. the hebrew alphabet is the 
> 1623247152 742002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> only extant one that does not have trash at the end.
> 1623247402 321219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "I don't understand in what sense "Ш" is trash" -- the word traSH is literally ends with Ш; you can see that the "trash consonants ending" actually starts with Ф consonant: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C
> 1623247444 378630 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Ъ and Ь aren't even either vowel or consonants -- they have no sound and words can start with them
> 1623247498 152778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *can't
> 1623247533 291914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas_> nakilon: sure
> 1623247617 13171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> also you can see the Ж being the most rate in the "non-trash half of the alphabet" -- together with Ш they have a rule "can't place Ы after Ж и Ш" (mnemonically known as "ЖИ и ШИ пиши через И")
> 1623247714 310626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *most rare
> 1623247852 584637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> such rules feel like a waste of entropy -- similar in English only U can go after Q and it's so weird that we didn't even learn it as a rule and I only realised it when I was like 20
> 1623247906 687397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas_> nakilon: were you 20 before or after Iraq was featured in the news a lot?
> 1623247927 761177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> also Ж and Щ are the most wide letters in any font
> 1623248022 953372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> after
> 1623248051 707997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/phistomefel-s-theorem-t38410.html
> 1623248187 535986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: yeah, I started to make a 6 pixel tall font, with variable width, where most characters are at most 3 pixels wide plus a 1 pixel gap (the gap is omitted between some pairs of characters), but because some letters are hard to draw that way, I have added a three-way option for whether "MNm" are all wide, or "Mm" are wide but "N" is narrow, or every ascii letter is narrow. these options also 
> 1623248193 542857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> affect the russian letters, and indeed the three pixel wide versions are very ugly and mostly unrecognizable.
> 1623248210 949080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I should eventually finish that tiny font and use it for some esoteric project
> 1623248235 28447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I won't use it for everyday work, I have a large-sized fixed width font for that that I should improve
> 1623248250 418644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (the basics are fine but I have to add some new characters and redo the hastily done greek letters)
> 1623248259 588543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> OCR developers might hate Ы letter
> 1623248556 285252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> can't find English word for  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%B2%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82
> 1623248602 130722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ^ my father was связист in the army -- it's where you send and receive in Morze
> 1623248628 731207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Signaller?
> 1623248634 778269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Radio operator?
> 1623248656 514734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so for speed considerations they were told to use Ижица (V) symbol for Ж because Ж was too big https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izhitsa
> 1623249013 797716 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Taneb yeah, probably this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaller "Signallers, a.k.a. Combat Signallers"
> 1623249037 472302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> idk what's the exact difference between radio and signalling, радист and связист
> 1623249065 25082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Perhaps signallers are also trained with lamps or flags or something
> 1623249081 153263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Whereas radio operators have some electric engineering training?
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> 1623249161 892306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's weird to use the word "signal" in two so different cases
> 1623249294 313123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yes, he was into the https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE (again no link to English wiki ..() that is about fixing and creating electronics yourself
> 1623249362 122207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> basically he used only radio technologies, no visual stuff, the military base was underground actually
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> 1623249438 161578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I would expect the English article to be named "Hobby electronics"
> 1623249502 936277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_corps
> 1623249900 657851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> b_jonas: Ha, that's a fun idea! Curiously, it seems that Smullyan didn't use any corvids (blackbirds, magpies, ravens, rooks, crows, bluejays, etc.) for their bird list.
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> 1623250950 43745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I should finish learning morse
> 1623251144 186430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PaRappa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84285&oldid=83193 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+0) 10
> 1623251187 312777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PaRappa14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84286&oldid=84285 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+2) 10
> 1623251235 780790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> in amateur radio it is common to use the letter N in place of the numeral 9, for speed (-. versus ----.)
> 1623251335 233327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> so for example a perfect signal report will be given as 5NN [..... -. -.] instead of 599 [..... ----. ----.] for a time savings of more than 50%
> 1623251461 21277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> in the US it is possible to select your callsign (subject to restrictions) and operators who do a lot of CW (morse) will try to get one with a low "weight"
> 1623251510 685331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hah, didn't know that
> 1623251588 290189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> imagine IRC transmitted in morze
> 1623251621 248609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `? morse
> 1623251623 930912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. .. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
> 1623251632 707754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wat
< 1623251640 747009 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1623251652 533243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `morse morse
> 1623251653 407695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> morse? No such file or directory
> 1623252260 65337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:PaRappa14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84287 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+150) 10Created talk page
> 1623252459 573504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> can't figure out what animal the URSU is
> 1623252811 730533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Surely it's MURSU, not URSU.
> 1623252827 303400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (And that's a walrus.)
> 1623252878 222342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think that's from the lead paragraph of https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mursu
> 1623252911 255995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84288&oldid=84143 5* 03Grs 5* (-995) 10Replaced content with "Do you have any ideas to add something? -~~~ ~~~~~"
> 1623252933 670693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84289&oldid=84288 5* 03Grs 5* (-107) 10Blanked the page
> 1623253193 967627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> fizzie: just looking through the logs and noticed that the new "has changed hostmask" showed someone's pre-cloaking host, which may be a bit unfortunate (although i think that means they're not following the advice of using sasl?)
> 1623253296 238603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `cbt morse
> 1623253297 153630 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> cat: /hackenv/bin/morse: No such file or directory
> 1623253303 114941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `which morse
> 1623253304 24261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> No output.
> 1623253309 825461 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: URSU is probably a bear; I don't know about MURSU
> 1623253310 824728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> shikhin: that was you by the way, you should use sasl
> 1623253315 24587 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ah wait, it's ?
> 1623253329 74186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's some wrong char in that string
> 1623253334 457387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> leading non printable char
> 1623253349 770601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it makes all online decaders fail to decode it
> 1623253355 265540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> see https://xkcd.com/2381/
> 1623253356 811843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *decoders
> 1623253389 405078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "Smullyan didn't use any corvids" wait really? I thoguht he did... let me look up the English list
> 1623253411 178722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> yes he did
> 1623253423 385468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> Corbin: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic says "Blackbird" 
> 1623253487 701060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> `` ruby -e "p '18:13:43 <HackEso> ​-- ..- .-.'.dump"
> 1623253489 44258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​"\"18:13:43 <HackEso> \\u200B-- ..- .-.\""
> 1623253501 860665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> nakilon: it's the invisible space which HackEso prepends if the output starts with non-alphanumerics
> 1623253510 953862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> it's to avoid triggering other bots
> 1623253521 162083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ..\
> 1623253612 42515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84290&oldid=84237 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-173) 10
> 1623253673 949231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> b_jonas: Oh, nice, a bluebird of bluebirds. I guess I'm just a fancier sort of composition.
> 1623253681 269042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oerjan: I still think this sasl thing is sort of a scam. I like SASL, but advertising it because some people's clients are broken and will join channels without waiting for nickserv identify to succeed is silly. waiting for nickserv to reply that you're identified, or waiting for the server to tell you your hostmask has changed if you do it for a cloak, isn't actually easier than doing the SASL stuff
> 1623253690 299238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> s/easier/harder/
> 1623253716 922559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> b_jonas: automatically?
> 1623253750 648905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i think you may be biased by being a person who finds programming trivial hth
> 1623253769 200668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it's the same sort of argument that leads to telling others that you shouldn't send notices because other people's clients are broken and render them wrong, or shouldn't send color codes because they annoy other people becuase their client shows them in ugly colors or whatever. 
> 1623253795 981869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<shikhin> oerjan: Yeah, whoops, too lazy to set it up just yet, but thanks.
> 1623253802 105663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I won't call ability to join channels without identifying "being broken"
> 1623253844 816620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's some flaw in the cloacking concept
> 1623253887 657235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oerjan: someone has to put the SASL thing in the irc clients too, just as much as the rest. you can say that it's worth because it works the same on multiple networks, so it's easier to implement because of that. in particular, nickserv id works backwards between libera/freenode and oftc. that would be a good argument, except for that if you try SASL on a server that doesn't understand SASL, you'll get 
> 1623253893 663647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> a hang. but that's not the argument they're making.
> 1623253915 583694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> oh well
> 1623253918 58342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> if your IRC client doesn't know SASL, and you don't know programming, it's just as hard to teach it SASL
> 1623253987 480196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> just don't disconnect from the server *shrug*
> 1623253997 865797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> you're right, i was comparing apples and oranges
> 1623254030 671772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> if you "know programming" you can set up a BNC and probably can find a machine with reliable network connection
> 1623254039 326438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> they could also make the argument that someone could guess when they'll reconnect after a disconnect, and WHO their hostmask before they rejoin the channel
> 1623254064 305880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I'm not against SASL, only against the stupid arguments that some IRC folks make about it
> 1623254090 322832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (and yes, freenode also requires SASL for some remote addresses as a way to control spam)
> 1623254228 777204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> so ideally WHO shouldn't be possible until the SASL has gone through either...
> 1623254244 80693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> no idea whether the servers enforce that
> 1623254324 309579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oerjan: yes, WHO isn't possible before SASL because your connection doesn't have a nick that WHO could target, nor a channel it's joined to
> 1623254342 620382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> SASL is before you choose a NICK
> 1623254417 408051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> is there any standard on "Tags" in the unicode table? like if I ask for "looks like a dot" and it would come up with . and · and •
> 1623254630 415059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan_> 08:53 < nakilon> just don't disconnect from the server *shrug*
> 1623254635 781155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan_> in soviet russia, server disconnects from YOU!
> 1623254646 587378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan_> (been a lot of that this morning...)
> 1623254715 311890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan_> are the sore losers at freenode packeting libera?
> 1623254727 222052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this matches too many chars that are not dots https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=[:name=/\bDOT$/:]
> 1623254746 246979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan_> or is it just growing pains
> 1623255319 393976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this utility gives different sets of analogues for two different dots
> 1623255327 51186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/confusables.jsp?a=.&r=None
> 1623255329 586758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/confusables.jsp?a=%C2%B7&r=None
> 1623255483 248429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> there should be some Unicode similarity graph, probably made manually
< 1623255510 318409 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
> 1623255633 87201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> keegan_: no, it's spammers who spam both freenode and libera
> 1623255647 909857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> they target both, or whichever networks/servers are the most popular
> 1623255689 951454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> the sad part is when the spammers spam on freenode, then people go complain in #libera , even though the libera ops can't do anything to stop spam on freenode
> 1623255697 674447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so please don't do that
> 1623255868 280059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> oerjan: Yeah, I guess I could remove the old one from the rendered view, or just omit the event entirely; it's not a super-interesting one.
> 1623255897 495927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> The previous QUIT-and-JOIN combo contained the same information, I just wasn't rendering the hostname in QUITs (or JOINs).
> 1623255955 114805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> also the https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/confusables.jsp tool can't find the char that looks like 'ф' that I saw somewhere just few minutes ago 
> 1623255972 900947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> while the https://shapecatcher.com/ found it immediately https://i.imgur.com/STqB0fG.png
> 1623256095 911434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Something I've always found slightly odd about CertFP auth is that the client needs to explicitly invoke SASL EXTERNAL to make the identification happen pre-login, even though it's not like there's any fundamental theoretical reason the server couldn't just... make it happen.
> 1623256326 29204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: which one? ϕ (greek alternate) or a math or APL symbol?
< 1623256372 421733 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623256405 367481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> in that test search case I was looking exactly for the one that shapecatcher.com recognized
> 1623256538 151713 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: or ɸ the phonetic symbol?
> 1623256689 300421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "latin small letter qp digraph"
> 1623256714 173123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I expected the tool at unicode.org to give me it if I ask it for ф or Ф
> 1623256727 935963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> because they are what I'm able to type
> 1623256742 827768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: it does if you ask for ϕ
> 1623256753 942249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh
> 1623256821 379270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but I don't have a way to type it
> 1623256891 147137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> opt+ф types 'd', opt+a types 'å'
> 1623256980 407691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84291&oldid=82999 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+38) 10Cat
> 1623257020 933968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> those shapecatcher guys could make an excellent similarity graph
> 1623257994 449434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84292&oldid=84267 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+1) 10/* Binary Nu */
> 1623258046 989369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "<nakilon> but I don't have a way to type it" => 
> 1623258048 42520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `? font
> 1623258050 987466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
> 1623258054 991222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> copy it from http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
> 1623258063 962376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> from the greek block
< 1623258088 291885 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
> 1623259070 458063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Talk:OLNMLN10]]": Author request: blanked by only commenter
> 1623260154 829828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I would not know it's in greek block if you didn't tell me
> 1623260462 471729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it's a fricking greek letter phi
> 1623260467 556881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> how would it not be in the greek block?
> 1623260476 460995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> yes, it's an unnecessary second character for the same letter that already has one
> 1623260479 908737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but still
> 1623260496 325339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there's a tradition there of it appearing twice in some character sets, an old enough tradition, so it has to be represented twice in unicode
> 1623260513 152085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and since that's an old enough tradition it was in the earliest versions of unicode in the 90s so it's in the greek block
> 1623260568 945679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I can't even say it's wasting space, unlike some of the stuff that they put to the first (1<<12) code points, and yes, I was told that they hadn't invented utf-8 yet so they didn't know the first (1<<12) code points were special
> 1623260603 399682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I don't imagine greek phi with that link pointing up, only down
> 1623260612 311707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> for me it's a letter ф
> 1623260625 208845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *line
> 1623260742 366152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: to me it seems like the one with the straight line is a printed/carved form and the one with the loop is the handwritten form, sort of like the italic vs roman forms of many of the latin/cyrillic letters, which is why it's odd that it's double-encoded, but the greek script doesn't do that for many letters, so phi and theta got singled out
> 1623260818 160239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it's probably Knuth who popularized having both in the same font in the same book
> 1623260922 727812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> also you write ф and phi differently -- in Russian it's like 8, you go up when switching from left half to right one, now like in phi where you just move right
> 1623260954 775657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or perhaps it was Adobe, since one of their standard postscript fonts has both
> 1623260957 958349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I'm not sure
> 1623260993 797891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84293&oldid=82352 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+98) 10
> 1623261010 357490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: oh, you're saying that it's not actually similar to the russian phi so if you're searching for characters that look similar in appearance to the russian phi you wouldn't think to look in the greek block?
> 1623261054 763982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> that makes more sense
> 1623261126 890536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> btw
> 1623261154 283444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that unicode.org tool does not give "qp digraph" for phi too
> 1623261160 131683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> just checked
> 1623261174 146319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> what qp digraph? 
> 1623261198 275055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/STqB0fG.png
> 1623261218 358358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (the second time I have a feeling you missed this link)
> 1623261279 923890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't think I've ever seen that
> 1623261293 600896 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> makes sense
> 1623261294 477345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "Additions for Africanist linguistics
> 1623261300 875827 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hah
> 1623261304 847353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> " the unicode PDF says
> 1623261314 714359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but somehow I saw it just two hours ago
> 1623261327 998829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and then to test the unicode.org tool I tried to find it
> 1623261336 92436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there are a lot of such supposedly roman letters that are only used as either phonetic symbols or trying to make a transcription for africian languages by linguists
> 1623261340 594637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> by asking to show me letters similar to ф
> 1623261358 267194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> sure, they might exists but I ignore most of them unless they also happen to have some more common use
> 1623261390 312228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> most of the latin extended C block is such rare letters; this one is in latin extended B which has some more normal stuff
< 1623261704 652229 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
> 1623262084 203114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> if I had the similarity graph I would make such tool that... 
> 1623262176 967626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> "Labial-uvular stops are much rarer, but have been found in three Mangbutu-Efe languages spoken in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Uganda: Mamvu, and Lese."
> 1623262193 858491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you type "dot" and it finds all these chars https://unicodelookup.com/#dot/1 then finds the one with the smallest distance sum to all the rest and lists all them sorted by distance to that one
> 1623262217 113903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i guess that's what those africanists are studying
> 1623262239 32124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ...printing all these chars one per line, filling the line by all the chars in unicode that look like them
> 1623262243 92995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> * linguists
> 1623262302 892231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (I mean not similarity graph but similarity matrix)
> 1623262369 650370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> hm nope, it's apparently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_labiodental_plosive
> 1623262390 435561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> _much_ less exotic
> 1623262511 392018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I have no idea what the "labiodental" mean but Afrika is Африка
> 1623262542 579593 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RGB4D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84294&oldid=84271 5* 03ProtoBit 5* (+763) 10Added truth machine program and some minor formatting improvements
> 1623262570 391810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> nakilon: f actually is labiodental
> 1623262586 833575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> although this symbol represents a stop, not a fricative
> 1623262610 629090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Αφρική
> 1623262618 82755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> it means it's made with lips touching teeth
> 1623262628 439604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> did anyone like my sudoku link?
> 1623262633 386076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> bottom lip upper teech? I see
> 1623262640 567229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84295&oldid=84273 5* 03ProtoBit 5* (+12) 10Added RGB4D to the language list
> 1623262652 19125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> riv I did
> 1623262657 3785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> ty
> 1623262691 561928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> my father loved solving sudoku
> 1623262723 350283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i used to but i'm out of practice
> 1623262766 916739 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> we were buying those newspapers and other printed things with them but he said they have too many digits already already filled in
> 1623262818 770592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so I've found that one guy in internet was collecting the sudoku boards that had the minimal number of digits shown, IIRC it was 18, and he had an archive of thousands of them
> 1623262873 699731 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so I made my father a program that he launches and it makes a PNG file with next puzzle ready to be sent to printer
> 1623262969 31963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> though I felt like he finds it to be less interesting than buying in a kiosk
> 1623263016 68218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: print them on cheap low quality paper and give yours to the kiosk to sell them back to him?
> 1623263033 33310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> sounds like a business idea
> 1623263059 144534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> yeah, they can sell extra copies to others
> 1623267488 803067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> what do you do when Newton’s method doesn’t make the root more accurate when it appears it could add another decimal digit? The equation is polynomial, even a simple one: x^N − x − 1 = 0. I make numpy give me roots, pick the largest real one and try to make it better
> 1623267554 558048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> there’s at least one case when naive algorithm x ↦ (x + 1) ^ (1/N) makes x^N − x − 1 closer to zero than this approach
> 1623267591 523539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> N = 11 if I’m not mistaken
> 1623267635 106979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> ah, no, N = 11 is fine, two Newton iterations suffice
> 1623267728 13510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> though I don’t need to chase bits, I guess I’m fine with 1e−15 errors too
> 1623267802 70596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> finally some rain and thunder here
> 1623267841 135878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> velik, good thing you don't have to deal with floating point right?
> 1623267892 460928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> seems improbable there was no major rain for two or more weeks. Usually the climate here is more humid in summer, I even despise rains sometimes, when the weather is cyclonic and cold and all that windy unsummery stuff
> 1623268061 678281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> arseniiv: is the magnitude of the derivative significantly less than 1 at the root? 
> 1623268074 21485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it should be, otherwise you shouldn't use Newton's method as is
> 1623268109 884670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or something like that, that's probably not the right criteria, I'm bad at this
> 1623268201 87336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> b_jonas: gotta analyze, but I think it should be decent
> 1623268397 330172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> the derivative at the root is N − 1 + N x^−1, and as x > 1, that’s always > N − 1; for large N it’s asymptotically 2 N − 1 as x → 1
> 1623268450 465625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> so that’s float magic we’re to blame here
> 1623268504 60529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> also maybe the root values are okay and the error is more due to x^N − x − 1. I’ll check with a CAS maybe
> 1623269411 766499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84296&oldid=84283 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+243) 10/* Introductions */
> 1623271966 828856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> arseniiv: ok, but I'm not sure that's actually the right condition
> 1623271986 163717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so you may have to look up what the actual condition for stability is
> 1623272005 108848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> b_jonas: yeah
> 1623272015 749236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> though I’m pretty satisfied as it is
> 1623272032 37451 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> arseniiv: by the way, you do know that reinventing the wheel for computing the root of a polynomial equation on the reals is in general a bad idea unless you're really good at numerical analysis, because there are existing good libraries for it, right? you can still do it for practice or learning
> 1623272037 825230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or for esoteric purposees
> 1623272154 692929 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> b_jonas: I know! I actually started with the existing numpy function for that and I still use it
> 1623272198 871684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> but two Newton iterations on top of it make things even better though, for better or for worse (actually, just a single one is necessary for large N)
> 1623272201 504550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> very good
> 1623272224 796202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> also it’s a headache to write your own numeric code in large quantities!
> 1623272764 640838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I did make Newton fractal before, which is based on Newton's method
> 1623273523 11618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A returns a14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84297 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+3768) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{wrongtitle|title=a{a}}}  '''a{a}''' (pronounced a returns a) is an esolang that is based on recursion. A function is just a list of cases, and can be defined b..."
< 1623273655 755101 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric * :LKoen
> 1623274042 468305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84298&oldid=84295 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+23) 10/* A */
> 1623274095 789589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Jetison33314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84299 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+82) 10Created page with "So far I've made one esolange, [[A returns a|a{a}]], but I hope to make more soon."
> 1623274190 853526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A returns a14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84300&oldid=84297 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+1) 10
< 1623275313 389771 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-idnjsnlcitiastsj JOIN #esoteric dionys :dionys
> 1623277825 679732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://ai.facebook.com/blog/nethack-learning-environment-to-advance-deep-reinforcement-learning/ might have some overlap with people on this channel too.
> 1623278251 935909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> meh, wanted to make IRC morse encoder/decoder the only morse ruby gem that can encode Cyrillic is packaged in the wrong way (with dependencies lock file included) while one of the dependencies is made in the wrong way (has binary with a name 'console' that is conflicting)
> 1623278328 889187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yesterday I learned that the average length of working at Facebook is 8 months
> 1623278418 289616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (missed ", but" somewhere above)
> 1623278703 385073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> when your repo is a dependency for 4500 other repos and all them don't install because you can't ./bin properly https://github.com/krisleech/wisper/issues/183
> 1623278712 69551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Does that average take internships into account too, I wonder.
> 1623278724 598071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> fizzie idk
> 1623278820 525858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it was in a "podcast" talk interview with a girl who's currently in some consulting about how to build things
> 1623279807 565779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oh no!
> 1623279817 176591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you esoteric guys are infecting me
> 1623279850 4109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I felt a sudden urge to spell "preemptive" with a diaræsis. I could suppress it this time, but it's worrying
> 1623279959 570919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Just coöperate with us and you won't get hurt.
> 1623280010 130750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think I saw "coöperation" spelled that way in a book (of fiction) somewhat recently.
> 1623280092 179516 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> “So we’re competing against a fuel cell for the available oxygen?” Arsibalt asked.   “Think of it as coöperation.”   (Anathem, Neal Stephenson)
> 1623280165 474249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: that doesn't work, "ö" and "ü" just look to me like it's an umlaut changing the vowel value rather than a diaresis to separate adjacent vowels, unless perhaps it's in French text where they look a bit more confusing (even though "ö" and "ü" are very rare in French in that context)
> 1623280199 936534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but "ë" does look like it has a diaresis, because I don't see that one used as an umlaut often
> 1623280219 742577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I'm not saying it never happens, but it's not as common as with "ö" and "ü"
> 1623280228 259390 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> what should the minimal resolution of a glyph be.
> 1623280280 234457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, I do find myself forced to think of the Finnish ö (/ø/) sound whenever I see ö in "coöperation", and it does sound pretty silly.
> 1623280282 314825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> imode: depends on the script, I am working on a 6 pixel tall tiny latin font, but I'd never consider a 6 pixel tall kanji or hangul or vietnamese font, those just need more space
> 1623280306 807302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> 
ACTION prefers powers of two.

> 1623280358 269792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> even "ä" looks like an umlaut to me, even though technically "ë" as umlaut is more common in Hungarian, but "ä" is prevalent because of all the german and swedish texts
> 1623280410 746309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> gimme da chonky 8x8 glyphs.
> 1623280443 383669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> 1x1 is the best minimal power of 2 hth
> 1623280444 51518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> 8 pixel tall is well proven on many older computer displays and printers
> 1623280467 806828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fecupboard20 my font is 20 pixel tall, that's why it's called that
> 1623280472 173518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> `? oërjan
> 1623280473 860478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> oërjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
> 1623280524 36990 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there used to be a fecupboard16, but I no longer use it, it doesn't have decent character coverage, it doesn't look nice, and I'm not distributing it because it's not a free font
> 1623280549 458459 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I used to use it on VGA text console 
> 1623280608 889975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think my SparcStation 5 had a 12x22 pixel font in its ROMs.
> 1623280630 905843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think it was a little quirky though.
> 1623280657 955916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> something I'm contemplating is doing sub-glyphs.
> 1623280684 610442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> either shipping an 8x8 or 4x4 "shape" pack and building glyphs on top of that.
> 1623280695 529604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> so your text would probably be chonk.
> 1623280926 910526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> https://mrmotarius.itch.io/mrmotext
< 1623281272 604172 :563AAAAAB!~GREATEST@107.167.8.10 JOIN #esoteric * :Give me upvotes please.
> 1623281502 720474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I have 8x8 fonts for code page 437, 850, 865, 866, and 1125.
> 1623281589 934541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> are there really thousands of codepages now.
> 1623281638 241218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: not for 852? 
> 1623281642 94613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> :P
> 1623281673 720162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> doesn't even DOS 6.22 include one for 852 that you can enable with MODE ?
> 1623281694 537135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> by changing to 852 codepage and to 50 line mode on VGA that is
> 1623281730 74401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but if not, you can just make such a font from a 8x8 unicode font with enough coverage
> 1623281820 603284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<gundalow7> ／！\ THIᏚ CHΑNⲚEL HAЅ MΟVEᎠ ΤO IᏒC．LⅠBΕᎡA．ϹHAТ ＃НAMᎡADIΟ /ǃ＼
> 1623281857 21448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> lol.
> 1623281915 720054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> `unidecode /ǃ＼
> 1623281916 821321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+01C3 LATIN LETTER RETROFLEX CLICK] [U+FF3C FULLWIDTH REVERSE SOLIDUS]
> 1623281954 231078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm, it might be missing U+01C3 in the middle part.
> 1623281968 79738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​[U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK] [U+FF3C FULLWIDTH REVERSE SOLIDUS]
> 1623281997 767730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> language and writing is complicated.
> 1623282031 453973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I wonder what subset of UTF-8 will fit in an 8x8 character cell.
> 1623282061 118955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> By definition all of it, unless you put a fidelity requirement on it.
> 1623282073 422701 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There's 2^64 different 8x8 characters, after all.
> 1623282103 240969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> legible characters.
> 1623282121 334008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84301&oldid=83935 5* 03Batata 5* (+60) 10
> 1623282125 310527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's just a matter of training your users, surely.
> 1623282126 299528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> guess I should just learn to read in 64-bit code blocks.
> 1623282307 893083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ▜▘▌ ▝ ▗▖  ▄▖  ▗▖▄ ▄   ▌ ▗   ▌ ▄ ▖▖ ▌  ▟▖▗   ▖▖▗ ▗▖▗ ▗▖▄ ▝ ▄▖▗   ▖▖▝ ▟▖▌ ▗ ▖▖▟▖  ▗▖▗ ▄ ▟▖▗ ▖▖▟▖  
> 1623282311 898772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ▐ ▛▖▐ ▘▖  ▖▘  ▌ ▄▌▌▌  ▛▖▛▘  ▛▖▄▌▛ ▞▌  ▐ ▌▌  ▛ ▛▘▌ ▌▌▚▌▌▌▐ ▖▘▛▘  ▙▌▐ ▐ ▛▖▌▌▌▌▐   ▌ ▌▌▌▌▐ ▛▘▞▖▐   
> 1623282315 905150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ▝ ▘▘▝ ▀   ▀▘  ▝▘▀▘▘▘  ▀ ▝▘  ▘▘▀▘▘ ▝▘   ▘▝   ▘ ▝▘▝▘▝ ▄▘▘▘▝ ▀▘▝▘  ▀▘▝  ▘▘▘▝ ▝▘ ▘  ▝▘▝ ▘▘ ▘▝▘▘▘ ▘▝ 
> 1623282368 687321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> is that a 2.
> 1623282370 814664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84302&oldid=84301 5* 03Batata 5* (+45) 10
> 1623282378 78530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> "this 2 can be hard to recognize without context"
> 1623282387 918484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's a "z", as you can tell from the same pixels in "recognize".
> 1623282394 42747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> aha.
> 1623282405 991180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ▀▖  ▐ ▄▖  ▄▖  
> 1623282406 39148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ▞   ▝ ▄▖  ▖▘  
> 1623282406 39218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ▀▘  ▝     ▀▘▝ 
> 1623282411 750329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> fair.
> 1623282425 150692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I tried to use that font at work in Chat, but while it made the block-drawing characters monospaced, the spaces stayed proportional, and it went all wrong.
> 1623282448 530432 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> the 'e' looks all fucked up, like it compressed it.
> 1623282472 283302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I.. actually do not know whether my terminal font is monospaced. I think it is.
> 1623282496 29839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> imode: Many of the lwer code page numbers are EBCDIC rather than ASCII, so the code page numbers used modern are high larger numbers.
> 1623282508 778367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> b_jonas: I don't have 852.
> 1623282516 986926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> zzo38: meant it to be a joke.
> 1623282549 795611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Is there a code page number for TRON?
> 1623282561 390356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/ref.png if you want to see a reference rendering. I do like the "z" in that though.
> 1623282581 933708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> oh that looks nothing like mine.
> 1623282594 504342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> everything is all cronched together.
> 1623282627 348698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> if you added curvature/smooth corners to the block shapes, it'd be better.
> 1623282635 318354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> at least more parseable.
> 1623282641 677670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's probably some sort of a width difference between space and the blocks, because that's a good description of what it looked like in Chat.
> 1623282669 123181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> yeah. those blocks are definitely compressed length-wise for me.
> 1623282692 223288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> because the top pixel on the 'e' is like, 1px by 8px.
> 1623282728 85862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Huh, that's awkward. Oh well.
> 1623282740 764635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> 
ACTION needs a new font.

> 1623282848 761420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Code page 852 is one of the ones I wanted though, so that if Berusky game is ported to Free Hero Mesh, that the proper orthography can be in use. (Also maybe should be added the possibility to use other font sizes too, although currently a lot of the code assumes that 8x8 fonts are used, so they will need to be changed if it is to be implemented.)
> 1623282920 373808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Heh, well... it didn't turn out great in my web browser on the logs page either: https://zem.fi/tmp/ref2.png
> 1623282982 829357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And that's styled as `font-family: monospace;` and all.
> 1623282990 871624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> eugh that alignment.
> 1623283053 339038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> My own opinion is that Unicode is bad for grid-based text displaying.
> 1623283072 378071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fizzie: that's an interesting tiny font. has some decisions different from what I made in my tiny font
> 1623283093 721186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> even if it's the same size, most of the letters differ
< 1623283157 881211 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1623283174 844863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's the one I did for rfk86, I think with the main inspiration being mooz's TI-86 Befunge interpreter's font probably, though it's not exactly same as that one either.
> 1623283349 300921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> nice
> 1623289126 173635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Paper 5*  10New user account
< 1623291929 142783 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1623298833 593427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84303&oldid=84259 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+2954) 10
> 1623299459 499466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84304&oldid=84303 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+641) 10
< 1623307987 540688 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1623309524 299972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84305&oldid=83982 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+556) 10I made a mistake in JSFuck
< 1623313101 761213 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1623313108 571759 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN #esoteric xelxebar :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623315364 157980 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1623318627 241629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \help morse
> 1623318627 419099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> \morse <EN or RU text>
> 1623318832 360970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \morse hello world
> 1623318833 505013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik>  .... . .-.. .-.. --- / .-- --- .-. .-.. -..
> 1623318847 166873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \help demorse
> 1623318847 309796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik> \demorse <EN morse code>; \demorse ru <RU morse code>
> 1623318856 971596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \demorse .... . .-.. .-.. --- / .-- --- .-. .-.. -..
> 1623318858 115441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik>  HELLO WORLD
> 1623318867 471711 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \demorse ru .... . .-.. .-.. --- / .-- --- .-. .-.. -..
> 1623318868 616723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik>  ХЕЛЛО ВОРЛД
> 1623318882 934066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \demorse -- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. .. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
> 1623318884 78981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik>  MURSU ON SUURIKOKOINEN VESIELMN SOPEUTUNUT ARKTINEN NISKSLAJI
> 1623318893 507626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> \demorse ru -- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. .. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
> 1623318894 652265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<velik>  МУРСУ ОН СУУРИКОКОИНЕН ЖЕСИЕЛЯМЯЯН СОПЕУТУНУТ АРКТИНЕН НИСЯКЯСЛАЙИ
> 1623318969 781366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> not sure what is .-.-
> 1623318982 268446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> is it some finnish letter modifier?
> 1623319482 705231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Velik14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84306&oldid=83996 5* 03Nakilon 5* (+295) 10added \morse and \demorse examples
> 1623319578 691425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's an Ä.
> 1623319625 673876 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> (Which some online decoder converted into an Æ when I looked that up, so I presume it's that in some other dialect of morse code.)
> 1623319794 491353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> can't find it here https://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-M.1677-1-200910-I
> 1623319859 422277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_code#Letters,_numbers,_punctuation,_prosigns_for_Morse_code_and_non-Latin_variants has it listed under the vague "non-Latin extensions" category, as "shared by Ä, Æ, Ą".
> 1623319957 404742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I see
> 1623320070 402039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Making it Я in the Cyrillic flavor is moderately consistent, though. The Finnish ä is nominally /æ/, which I take it я could in some situations sound like.
> 1623320085 981565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that only gem that can Cyrillic -- I forked it to fix the broken dependency, but it appeared to emit only ASCII (for Russian you explicitly pass `:ru` and it emits UTF-8 with Я for .-.-)
> 1623320145 479051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> another gem, that probably can those extensions, can't Cyrillic ..\
> 1623320238 195448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> heh, and you know why?
> 1623320245 79525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> because first gem author is Russian
> 1623320252 659869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the second gem author is Japanese
> 1623320383 601569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I probably shouldn't have said "nominally", the Finnish ä *is* /æ/, we have a pretty strict 1:1 mapping of graphemes and phonemes, with just a few tiny little special cases around things like /ŋ/ (an "n" before a "k" is a short /ŋ/ instead of the usual /n/, and "ng" turns into a long /ŋː/).
< 1623320506 359119 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zimnkziaxkiwuzar JOIN #esoteric GautamS :Siddharth Gautam
> 1623320650 719533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> checked, the Japanese gem supports japanese chars but not this extension: => "MURSU ON SUURIKOKOINEN VESIEL.-.-M.-.-.-.-N SOPEUTUNUT ARKTINEN NIS.-.-K.-.-SLAJI"
> 1623323752 449830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07S l o w14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84307 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+3695) 10Create Slow
> 1623324685 230500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: or you could just write your own morse encoder and decoder
> 1623324777 59363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I could pull request one of them to include another alphabet
> 1623324798 422509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but I'd like to keep these simple https://github.com/Nakilon/nakiircbot/blob/master/example_libera_velik/remote_morse/app.rb
< 1623325840 769019 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1623326718 816196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07S l o w14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84308&oldid=84307 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+44) 10Added link
< 1623327065 721526 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-idnjsnlcitiastsj PART :#esoteric
< 1623327501 537659 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wlbljvckrvdfeizg QUIT :Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM
< 1623329007 635596 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Hmmm
< 1623329604 161536 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1623330780 859772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84309&oldid=84304 5* 03Enoua5 5* (-251) 10Bracket cards not needed for this one
< 1623330793 918108 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-evafhjacbvwfnpan JOIN #esoteric Discordian[m] :zone.thedisco.matrix:discordian
< 1623330851 996257 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-evafhjacbvwfnpan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1623331309 407425 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gezgzqoljeimzaim QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1623331751 950428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07S l o w14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84310&oldid=84308 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ Fix link
> 1623332145 121807 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Redstone14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84311&oldid=58708 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10Categorize
< 1623332157 138261 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
> 1623332177 945068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Redstone14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84312&oldid=84311 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10Fix
< 1623332624 760424 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ynwakdbwevvxepqw JOIN #esoteric Discordian[m] :zone.thedisco.matrix:discordian
> 1623332699 477960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84313&oldid=84309 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+889) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1623332925 140385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://proglangdesign.net/
> 1623333871 692143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Enoua514]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84314&oldid=54260 5* 03Enoua5 5* (-351) 10Delete section "Languages I know"; I kinda just.. know *programming* now
< 1623334375 713608 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xfwrvospomkgioju JOIN #esoteric * :org.matrix:none30
> 1623335315 560134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitcoin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84315&oldid=80795 5* 03MathR 5* (+174) 10/* Turing-completeness */
> 1623336079 909154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07S l o w14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84316&oldid=84310 5* 03Magnogen 5* (+5) 10I'll
< 1623336682 223073 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zimnkziaxkiwuzar QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1623338395 586154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84317&oldid=84234 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+549) 10
< 1623340342 177561 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
< 1623340358 165234 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1623340431 728013 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623340583 118289 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
> 1623342631 528058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> The same morse code for "A" with two dots above also stands for a line break, and a equal sign also stands for a paragraph break, it look like
> 1623342693 684438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> Ä
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> 1623343879 161984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I thought those sort of breaks were done with pauses
> 1623343950 54008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but perhaps i'm wrong
> 1623344021 255215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> looks like the equals sign is the same code as the <BT> prosign which means "break" or "start new section of message"
> 1623344091 443696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and Ä is the same code as <AA> which means space down one line
> 1623344100 232784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> in the ARRL National Traffic System
> 1623344238 439125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes
> 1623344325 657529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i don't know very many of the prosigns
> 1623345301 670765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84318&oldid=84317 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+63) 10/* Version 1.0 */ See laso
> 1623345317 409824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84319&oldid=78501 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* See also */ Add
> 1623345330 294325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dirst14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84320&oldid=75130 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* See also */ Add
> 1623345350 170028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84321&oldid=75128 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* See also */ Add
> 1623345369 881901 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84322&oldid=84318 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10/* See also */ Cat
> 1623345759 224785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> anyone into image processing?
> 1623346484 739762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I wish there were jobs for programmers in Russia so I won't forget math after all these years
> 1623346525 673647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I'm trying to solve the captcha https://i.imgur.com/MTplwa8.png
> 1623346590 536368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I already have the text recognition half of the problem solved previously now I need to solve the deformation problem
> 1623346726 871199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so I have these two skeleton lines; how do I find some ^3 approximation for them? exactly to be able to iterate dot by dot along the approximation
> 1623346801 438334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but probably I should find some already existing gem...
> 1623347903 334174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitcoin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84323&oldid=80787 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+58) 10/* Examples */ cats
> 1623348562 165068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> probably this https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Polynomial_regression#Ruby but I have no idea what do the 1.0 2.0 3.0 mean here
> 1623348700 866156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> nvm, I see, 3x^2+2x+1
> 1623349663 35982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> nakilon, i wouldnt use a cubic curve
> 1623349692 451242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> in image 3, is only 1 pixel for every y coordinate filled
> 1623349742 425588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> you could create a piecewise linear "curve" by just doing (x1,y1),(x2,y1),.. for x moving from left to right
> 1623349763 768088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> and then you can smooth this and calculate normals
> 1623350508 705201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Is there a extension for Firefox to display formatted JSON? (It already can display formatted XML, but I want that for JSON too; it happens often enough that I try to access some URL and the response is in JSON format.)
> 1623350679 876748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (The "view source" could still be used if you want to display the raw JSON data, anyways)
> 1623351199 964265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<^[> I think it's already built in.
> 1623351275 858314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<^[> There's a "JSON" tab with an interactive tree, and a "Raw Data" tab.
> 1623351443 99910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Maybe it is a newer version than I have, then
> 1623351518 231001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> there is one for chromium
> 1623351635 937345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<^[> "The JSON viewer is new in Firefox 44." https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/JSON_viewer
> 1623352364 529136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Toxinite 5*  10New user account
> 1623352861 36904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84324&oldid=84296 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+231) 10
> 1623353649 52036 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84325&oldid=84305 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (-188) 10Reduced the JSFuck Truth machine by about 200 chars
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> 1623355661 86055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: I have some qualifications for image processing
> 1623355765 797449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "<nakilon> I wish there were jobs for programmers in Russia" => sounds like a strong enough reason to consider migrating if there aren't
> 1623355885 783165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: "to be able to iterate dot by dot along the approximation" => try sorting the pixels left to right, then again top the bottom, then again top left to bottom right, then again bottom left to top right, see which of the four results in less total distance
> 1623355921 668225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> do you have a larger sample of these captchas? it's hard to go from just one
> 1623355955 498159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: firefox already displays formatted JSON in the current version
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> 1623356153 656399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84326&oldid=84240 5* 03Grs 5* (+43) 10/* How it works */
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> 1623356333 772387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84327 5* 03Grs 5* (+81) 10Created page with "~~~: If you have any programs post it here:"
> 1623356346 46227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84328&oldid=84327 5* 03Grs 5* (-81) 10Blanked the page
> 1623356796 205126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OLNMLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84329&oldid=84326 5* 03Grs 5* (+1) 10/* Hello World! */
> 1623357954 383415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I want to iterate over every original pixel and find the closest one on the approximation curve to then find its coordinates in the corrected space
> 1623357961 600232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but idk how to find the closest one
> 1623358173 446566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> as an approximation I can find the closest one among those on the skeleton though
> 1623358394 75878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84330 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+781) 10Created page with "'''Qwerty oriented impractical bicharacter language''' (qoibl) is an esoteric programming language created on the 10th of June 2021 by [[User:Toxinite]]. {| class="wikitable"..."
> 1623358451 109670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: what kind of approximation curve do you have?
> 1623358480 561602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ^3 or ^4 polynom
> 1623358506 639363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> is it a spline? or y is a polynomial of x? 
> 1623358529 974722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> polynomial; idk other way to make an approximation
> 1623358579 934271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> then why don't you just use the point with the matching y coordinate? isn't that also how you optimized the approximating curve?
> 1623358658 534918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's not the closest one
> 1623358667 171176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I need to restore space shape
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> 1623358704 326188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> find the corresponding normal
> 1623359128 492358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84331&oldid=84330 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+92) 10
> 1623359324 174006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that rosetta code gave these coefficients [-69.02347358088862, 5.116073840910607, -0.09317624841538175, 0.0008300975974690756, -2.7594210609514763e-06]
> 1623359342 371974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> for left word; counting left top corner as (0,0)
> 1623359430 790033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hm, searching for the closest among that skeleton won't work because the skeleton ends aren't going far enough
< 1623359518 393661 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1623359536 826263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> someone in internet says "One way to approximate the solution is to discretize the curve into a polyline", heh, like riv said
> 1623359979 986979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> even iterative newton method won't work because of the space distortion
> 1623360024 154281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I guess I'll just calculate a thousand of polynom dots along the image and then search among all of them
> 1623360126 651344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but then I'll have to multiply the X distance between them by derivative... things are more complex than I imagined _-- will have a long fight with bugs
> 1623360259 553638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Stellartux 5*  10New user account
> 1623361321 250444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but why do you need the closest?
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> 1623362180 542772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/PCodCHm.png
> 1623362234 423525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I take green point and find the corresponding blue normal to the red axis that is distorted in original image but is straight in the corrected space
> 1623362262 745470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I mean I don't find the normal but where it intersects the red curve
> 1623362273 837013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> to find the resulting X
> 1623362357 541485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> current problem is to somehow convert the original X to resulting X'
> 1623362386 548290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> because I have to continuously multiply by derivative so it's like integral _<>
> 1623362498 503696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so I have a starting point of my curve segment with 1000 points on it
> 1623362512 513665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and I need to calculate its length
> 1623362833 915015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> if local length is abs(derivative) then the total length is antiderivative(abs(derivative))...
> 1623362935 32016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> looks like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve#Length_of_a_curve
> 1623363031 837781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I've no idea how to calculate it
> 1623365871 484316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> > points.map{ |v,x,y| x }.minmax
> 1623365871 613150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> => [0, 3019]
> 1623365872 826490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:13: error: parse error on input ‘|’
> 1623365876 697493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> > points.map{ |v,x,y| y }.minmax
> 1623365876 779517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> => [-87, 84]
> 1623365878 129659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:13: error: parse error on input ‘|’
> 1623365884 402968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> sry lambdabot
> 1623365921 496293 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this image seems to be  of 3000:150 aspect ratio
> 1623365950 76148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that sounds close to the aspect ratio of the first word when the space is corrected
> 1623365973 29861 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> now I need somehow to convert the array of dots to an image  filling the gaps
> 1623367618 430009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/0iK27nR.png
> 1623367623 166305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> not what I expected lol
> 1623368052 613847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the shape looks correct though https://i.imgur.com/MZx8oB6.png 
> 1623368171 399347 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> not sure what's wrong with last 9 columns, why they don't finish the rectangle
> 1623368745 62425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84332&oldid=84331 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+58) 10Cats/templates
> 1623368762 496874 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84333&oldid=84332 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10Fix
> 1623370205 978419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Have you played the "Gruniozerca" series of computer games? Do you know if they will make a fourth?
> 1623370783 718974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> horraaaaaay https://i.imgur.com/wpdljVj.png
> 1623370938 389101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I was thinking about this for ~10 years and finally made it
> 1623370979 217892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> whazzat.
> 1623371058 188198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> corrected shape of captcha word https://i.imgur.com/MTplwa8.png
> 1623371283 264054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> few minutes think up, ten years of hesitating and few hours to implement
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> 1623378986 834708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: great
> 1623379004 438578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: I'd still like to know if you have more example inputs of those captchas
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> 1623381070 753187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84334&oldid=83857 5* 03Goglesq 5* (+19) 10/* math(variable, equation) */
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> 1623381141 821743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84335&oldid=84334 5* 03Goglesq 5* (-5) 10/* getin(variable) */
> 1623381451 759657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03HecknTarnation 5*  10New user account
> 1623381858 576757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84336&oldid=84324 5* 03HecknTarnation 5* (+214) 10
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> 1623391972 173368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Now I made in Free Hero Mesh that it remembers which levels you have solved and it is writing the level number green in that case, rather than red. However, it does not yet have a menu to display a list of all of the levels, nor the possibility to make a SQL query on the list of levels; hopefully these things can be added in future
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> 1623395459 507495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> b_Jonas not yet, gotta collect them for ml anyway
> 1623395566 276857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Thelounge is weird on mobile. Keyboard takes one half of screen. Browser address bar, topic and input takes another half. Can't read while typing
> 1623395794 541741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Still have no idea why right 9 columns were not full
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< 1623396123 869607 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
> 1623396452 969298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Also imgur is awful on mobile (
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> 1623396980 329277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> (better if you switch to desktop mode)
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> 1623399521 728977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> I think someone already joked about ACIDIC language but I came up with yet another deacronymization: “allegedly circuitous immaterial divine instruction code”
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> 1623414096 642173 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84337&oldid=84284 5* 03ResU 5* (+329) 10Two cats, no dogs
> 1623414611 105312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84338&oldid=84337 5* 03ResU 5* (+97) 10
> 1623414696 947349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> arseniiv wasn't here a hackeso command to generate abbreviations?
> 1623414718 870810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *deacronymizations
> 1623414741 90065 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> nakilon: hmmm don’t think I’ve seen one!
> 1623414751 143826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84339&oldid=84338 5* 03ResU 5* (+1) 10
> 1623414753 943731 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> hackeso needs a regex search for commands by name and/or description
> 1623414771 188619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> playing FEZ right now, it’s a great fun
> 1623414974 125992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I feel handicated having no logs search in Thelounge
> 1623414979 959493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *handicaped
> 1623415074 331290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and there is no website with #esolangs log search, right?
> 1623415251 180412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> hm I thought there were pages with each full year of logs but there are only full-month pages
> 1623415308 213886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> fizzie: do you know where can the logs be searched?
> 1623415609 79525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> how unreasonable would a 20MB web page be in 2021?
> 1623415624 410102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I know that ridiculous web pages sizes are common, but am not sure if they can reasonably be *that* large
> 1623415864 256417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Delta Salein Ao14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84340&oldid=84172 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10Stub
> 1623416001 528051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84341&oldid=84339 5* 03ResU 5* (+195) 10
> 1623416079 820887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: 20 MB is possible if it serves multiple high resolution images or a small video
> 1623416152 532762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> in this case, it would be 20MB of compressed text
> 1623416169 524583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the context is, trying to host an esolang interpreter
> 1623416178 785864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> that uses a compression algorithm with a really big dictionary
> 1623416179 536213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> ais523: I’d add if the large part of its content is cacheable then maybe not that bad
> 1623416197 575775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: "a regex search for commands by name" => grep -Eie "$1" /hackenv/share/whatis
> 1623416200 893038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it should be cacheable, although actually getting it to be cached would be a little harder
> 1623416231 750234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: we don't currently have a log search, you'd have to download the logs and search them locally. fizzie was vaguely planning to set up a log search.
> 1623416233 224420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> yeah, I meant cacheable by a poor browser :)
> 1623416273 132397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I guess the part that's unlikely to change should be on a separate page and loaded by XHR or JSONP or whatever, so that we can change it without invalidating the cache
> 1623416303 441871 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: I think that sounds reasonable then, just perhaps make a landing page with human-readable description of what you're doing that doesn't load that
> 1623416319 480344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so it only loads the dictionary if the viewer actually wants to use it
> 1623416332 229165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I could even load it lazily, I guess
> 1623416341 680385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> wait until there's an attempt to compress or decompress a string
> 1623416341 731034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I mean at least if the user wants to evaluate something
> 1623416348 614725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> not necessarily that lazily
> 1623416351 910298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> though that's certainly possible
> 1623416405 63505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I've been pondering finding some way to split the dictionary up into, say, 65536 separate files, so that we only load the parts of the dictionary that are actually needed
> 1623416421 305427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> but that means that each individual part would compress less well
> 1623416438 138619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "loaded by XHR or JSONP" => that might be overcomplicating it, unless you really want to make it lazy. it could just be a javascript or web assembly or an uncompressed image file that the page loads normally, and then access the blob in it from the interpreter javascript
> 1623416458 614442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> through the canvas API if it's an image
> 1623416484 969202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "65536 separate files" => um, is your compression algorithm such that that actually works?
> 1623416491 761086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the canvas API doesn't exist nowadays, I thought? so that you couldn't fingerprint a browser by measuring how its rendering works
> 1623416517 908167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> also that sounds too many chunks for a 20 MB file that you're sending through network
> 1623416550 943327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: I don't know, I think the canvas API still exists, but if not, there's probably a modern replacement like webGL or whatever
> 1623416587 531075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> why does my IRC client keep segfaulting
> 1623416597 180072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> maybe 65536 is too many, and it should be 1024 or 2048 or so
> 1623416626 95653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> no, still too many, that would make the individual chunks only 10K
> 1623416632 613547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I'd make them at least 100K sized
> 1623416636 269284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> well, you'd need to access multiple chunks, most likely
> 1623416650 500068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> with 10K there'd be significant protocol overhead
> 1623416654 972147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> for retreiving the files
> 1623416655 20268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I've been looking at various compression algorithms (including trying to invent my own)
> 1623416675 124376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but if canvas doesn't work, then just a javascript or web assembly file containing a blob (or multiple smaller blobs)
> 1623416685 390527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> prezip followed by one of the usual general-purpose compressors (gzip, bzip2, xz, etc.) seems to be the best algorithm
> 1623416691 669706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> probably gzip because web browsers have that already
> 1623416692 442848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or you can make it XHR and cache it to local storage
> 1623416704 244699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and prezip's compression ratio is hardly hurt by cutting the file and compressing the two bits separately
> 1623416716 529031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ais523: can you decompress xz client-side in the browser?
> 1623416736 909740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> well there are couple of megabytes of webassembly in here too, so probably
> 1623416750 33490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> but relying on browers' built in gunzips would be easier
> 1623416755 94536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> well yes, it's Turing-complete, but like efficiently
> 1623416780 901475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> this is an esolang, efficiency is just a bonus :-D
> 1623416794 653953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I've mostly been aiming for good asymptotic complexity but ignoring the constant factors
> 1623416803 656075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> heh
> 1623416809 353572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and decompressing a specific, fixed dictionary is O(1) so it doesn't matter
> 1623416824 842348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> if it's for good asymptotic complexity then your 20 MB dictionary is too small :-)
> 1623416840 717859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> this is the largest dictionary I could find :-)
> 1623416854 785385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it is 9.4 MB uncompressed
> 1623416871 991820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and you want to compress it to 20 MB? brilliant
> 1623416876 355799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (sorry)
> 1623416889 776424 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> sorry, 94 MB uncompressed
> 1623416907 454019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> these numbers get so big that it's hard to count the digits in them
> 1623416916 357615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> that's betteer
> 1623416967 95047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> thanks for the advice, I'll think about this some more
> 1623418803 215659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Primes14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84342 5* 03Meloons 5* (+15387) 10Added Page
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> 1623421466 442424 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84343&oldid=84298 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+12) 10Added Qoibl
> 1623422892 35984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84344&oldid=84333 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+184) 10
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> 1623423899 489391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84345&oldid=84344 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+66) 10
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> 1623426233 327525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84346&oldid=84345 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+347) 10
> 1623426647 779814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Toxinite14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84347 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+56) 10Created page with "I am a person who likes esolangs ==Esolangs== *[[Qoibl]]"
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> 1623426795 601145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84348&oldid=76238 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (+64) 10/* Direction pointer */ (Lists exists)
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> 1623427400 336234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I think I've snapped. I propose an abomination: https://bpa.st/WVZQ Can any category theorists confirm that I'm on a decent track?
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> 1623432228 18728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> UTF-8 in brainfuck?
> 1623432292 886690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> easily done
> 1623432312 39476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> make . print out bytes instead if chars, done
> 1623432344 906656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84349&oldid=84293 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (-733) 10
> 1623432368 995694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> :O
> 1623432401 950104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> isn't that how most BF impls work anyway?
> 1623432403 828072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84350&oldid=84349 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+7) 10
> 1623432421 711842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> probably, yeah
> 1623432444 526730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it's harder to make bf not support utf8
> 1623432450 111964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> brainfuck isn't limited to text data
> 1623432473 166449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> the only issue i'm aware of with processing arbitrary binary data is that you can't distinguish a null byte from EOF
> 1623432498 175145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but that presents no additional issues for UTF-8 compared to ASCII
> 1623432520 729352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> because in both codes the null byte is only used to represent the null character and never for anything else
> 1623432547 850256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Zero player rodent 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Among us.png10]]": Logo for the Among Us programming language
> 1623432719 472508 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84352&oldid=84350 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+77) 10
> 1623432727 295892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> you still might want to implement some UTF-8-related algorithms in brainfuck like finding codepoint boundaries or whatever
> 1623432733 305235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but that shouldn't be particularly challenging
> 1623432931 904670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> UTF-8 is a superset of ASCII, so if your program is using only ASCII then it will work on a terminal emulator with any ASCII superset, including UTF-8. The brainfuck program can easily output any data, whether ASCII, UTF-8, binary, or ANSI escapes. I think there are some extensions for doing other functions than only standard I/O if wanted too (which is not specific to brainfuck but to anything that is only standard I/O)
> 1623432959 522188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Also the representation of EOF in brainfuck depends on the implementation I think; some use 0, some use 255, some leave it unchanged, I don't know if some terminate on EOF
> 1623432995 70963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Although, if you need to input UTF-8 with nulls you can use the overlong null character encoding, I suppose
> 1623433045 389067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Zero player rodent 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Amongus.png10]]": Among Us programming language logo
> 1623433065 98523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84354&oldid=84352 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (-1) 10
> 1623433133 519317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> im curious about the following concept?
> 1623433144 342346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> consider some kind of programming language that runs in one node
> 1623433148 590494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> and has the ability to talk to other nodes
> 1623433151 206139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> but is not turing complete
> 1623433155 744973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> what would be a good unambiguous way to handle EOF in brainfuck? add another command to ask if EOF has been reached?
> 1623433160 47237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> it is not turing complete with 2 or 3 or 4 nodes
> 1623433163 744470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> but it is turing complete with 5 nodes
> 1623433173 215016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> (5 chosen arbitarily for this example)
> 1623433177 43153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> "leave unchanged" works too but only if the cells are allowed to contain values outside [0..255]
> 1623433205 970535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> or -1 on EOF would work if your cells can go negative
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> 1623434238 59098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> river: well, you can easily do something like splitting bf programs so that each cell runs its own program, i guess
> 1623434265 429931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> and iirc bf with 3 (or 2?) unlimited cells is TC, but it is not with one
> 1623434271 483203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> also, TIS-100
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> 1623435468 918463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> wow!
> 1623435485 153066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> I hould really play TIS-100
> 1623435562 104440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> 5 might also happen to be the magic numbers where The Waterfall Model becomes TC, though it's quite likely that we'll never know the exact number
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> 1623436175 109052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> RAAAAIN
> 1623436179 670820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> @metar ENVA
> 1623436181 29032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> ENVA 111820Z 12003KT 090V180 9999 SCT014 BKN024 OVC040 16/13 Q1001 TEMPO SHRA SCT008 BKN014 RMK WIND 670FT 08005KT
> 1623436227 958638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> hm i don't know if any of that means rain.
> 1623436268 427502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> KOAK 111753Z 22005KT 10SM FEW010 SCT200 16/09 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP197 T01610089 10161 20100 58003
> 1623436791 255613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> river: everybody should play every zach-like!
> 1623437095 478517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> :0
> 1623437100 178697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i played lots of magnum opus, that was great
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> 1623439097 426451 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> oerjan: TEMPO SHRA means a little bit of showers, I think.
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> 1623439831 628204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> ah
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> 1623441712 784038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> TIS-100 is fun
> 1623441718 489498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> what is The Waterfall Model?
< 1623443494 433965 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e832:95e8:fb15:4682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some clever device for software salesmen to make lots of green paper
> 1623444160 2070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's that, too, but I rather think here it was a reference to https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model
> 1623444457 897267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> keegan: https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model
> 1623444600 703806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> oh, that's pretty neat
> 1623445765 817476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Primes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84355&oldid=84342 5* 03Meloons 5* (+107) 10Added GitHub Reference
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> 1623449401 727885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84356&oldid=84354 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+711) 10
> 1623449866 108702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84357&oldid=84325 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+538) 10
> 1623449967 319616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> accidentally won FEZ with 32 cubes or something. They say it has a better ending when you come with all 64 cubes
> 1623450098 379008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84358&oldid=82876 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+410) 10
> 1623450152 689608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> I was a bit confused when doors expecting 32 cubes opened for me when I had less. But in reality anti-cubes count to the overall number of cubes and that’s even displayed when the gate opens, flashing briefly squares of two different colors, each square for each cube you have. I didn’t notice that at first
< 1623451243 484311 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1623453358 808453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> fungot, was the safety pin of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch one of the True Nails with which Our Lord and Savior was crucified, and if so, through which of his body parts was it hammered?
> 1623453359 40819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> b_jonas: it's not functional and it's barely turing complete with an ugly memory model for a multiplexer and an encoder/ decoder to/ from
> 1623455511 748969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84359&oldid=84341 5* 03ResU 5* (+38) 10
> 1623456378 921029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A returns a14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84360&oldid=84300 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+0) 10/* Code examples */
< 1623457245 299394 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
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> 1623460571 633740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> <b_jonas> Corbin: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic says "Blackbird"  <-- after a little wikiwalk inspired by wikipedia's featured picture, turns out those are not actually corvids
> 1623460723 389034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> (neither the european nor american version)
> 1623460811 116958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> *old world nor new world
> 1623461014 260391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> oerjan: Zoology is wack, huh? And bluejays are corvids despite looking like passerines. TIL, thanks.
> 1623461266 476086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> corvids are a subset of passerines, aren't they?
> 1623461282 601403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae "Order: Passeriformes"
> 1623461340 968907 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I like jays
> 1623461360 85941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> we don't have blue jays here but we have scrub jays and Steller's jays
> 1623461363 201747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steller's_jay
> 1623461379 302705 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> very striking appearance
> 1623461398 311503 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oh heck, so you need to know both ornithology and bird sociology to tell whether there's a combinatorial bird that's also a corvid
> 1623461432 701341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or more likely, solve some kind of puzzle where the forest's keeper tells you about rules that somehow involve corvids and bird application, Smullyan style
> 1623461519 336222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "After observing this forest for twenty years, I have discovered three interesting rules. (1) For every corvid A, there is a bird B such that BA is not a corvid. [...] 
> 1623461602 948018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> `I have pondered your observations all night, and have discovered a striking fact. None of the birds in this forest are corvids.' [...] `Curious. I've been observing this forest for 20 years and never realized that.'"
> 1623461604 652576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> I? No such file or directory
> 1623461631 569589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (The actual punchline in the book that none of the birds ever sing in the forest is much better than the one with corvids, I admit.)
> 1623461874 969529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> keegan: Oh, interesting, TIL again. I thought "passerine" was just how zoologists say "songbird". The most common corvids here are crows, and they don't exactly ♩ sing ♪
> 1623461882 495596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or perhaps it would be something like "From these three rules, detective Craig could derive the following properities. 1. All bluebirds are corvids. 2. None of the kestrels in this forest are corvids. Can you also prove those properties?"
> 1623461974 740356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I think the most common songbirds here are common blackbirds
> 1623462001 787145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but maybe they're just the most obviously recognizable, with their yellow beak but otherwise black body, while some of the other corvids are all black and hard to distinguish from each other
> 1623462031 327755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> crows might be more common
> 1623462206 802756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> crows are very common here
> 1623462212 212083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> almost as common as pigeons
< 1623462601 37165 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Hmmm
> 1623462989 12561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it's sparrows that are common here, the little greedy guys
> 1623462992 876649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> crows are more common than pigeons here
> 1623463028 83895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> although they compete with seagulls, depending on time of year
> 1623463040 421530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I think pigeons are more common than crows, though there also seem to be less pigeons than there used to be. maybe the generation of old city folks who fed pigeons have aged out?
> 1623463076 698620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> there are probably more pigeons in the city center (or at least used to be)
> 1623463082 777561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> but this is a suburb
> 1623463153 558922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> perhaps. there are pigeons right on our roof, and so are there on the roof over my parent's home, but yes, probably more common in the city center 
> 1623463520 826747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> i think that deliberately given food is probably not a huge fraction of their diet but that a lot of it is trash that will be more widely available in the city center
> 1623463543 820485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> we also have seagulls (being by the sea and all)
> 1623463546 257308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and they love trash too
> 1623463557 914111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> they like to hang out at the parking lot of a burger place i go to
< 1623464277 364805 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-imbgahqjexjzgacx QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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> 1623464809 471890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> sure
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> 1623479342 550188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SiFuh3> ⧸!⧹ ΤΗIЅ ⲤНΑⲚNEL ᎻAS MОVEᎠ ΤO IRC.ᏞIᗷΕRA.CᎻΑΤ #HΑМᎡΑᗪІО ᜵ⵑ⧵
> 1623479343 358958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SiFuh3> ᜵!＼ ΤHE ЈΕWᏚ HΑVΕ ΤAⲔЕN ⲞVEᎡ ᖴREЕΝODΕ‚ СዘATᏚ HAVЕ MOⅤED TΟ IRⅭ․LІBЕᎡΑ.CHАΤ /﹗＼
> 1623479421 52440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i don't get why those bots even spam in libera about switching to libera
< 1623479485 441442 :zeroed!~zeroed@unaffiliated/zeroed JOIN #esoteric zeroed :...
< 1623479983 398997 :zeroed!~zeroed@unaffiliated/zeroed QUIT :Quit: %done%
> 1623482893 190470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> And, why are some of the letters mixed up on thise spam messages?
> 1623483032 747260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, I suppose so, but a spam filter could be made to look for such mixed up letters instead. (A long time ago I had seen spam messages with too many spaces at the end of the subject line, so I used that as a filter criteria; sometimes it is base64 encoded or whatever, so I used that asa filter criteria; etc)
< 1623484515 717204 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
< 1623484678 216903 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1623485689 831558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Re why spam about it here, I don't know how plausible it is, but it *could* be an attempt to get bridge bots get killed on the other side.
> 1623487092 866452 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 09:30:21 <myname> i don't get why those bots even spam in libera about switching to libera
> 1623487121 574119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> because the whole point was just to call people jews, koreans, etc., not switching the network for any profit
> 1623487132 753752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> people will start realising it maybe in few years
> 1623487143 229353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> some things are too hard to understand for majority
> 1623487199 117803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the only "reason" switching from freenode was these same spambots who were telling you to do it and you just followed their orders, lol
> 1623487555 743247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I imagine the TPUs can have miscalculations happen every second and no one will spot it behind the "NN magick"
> 1623487617 684857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the whole point of "computers being reliable" has devaluated thanks to NN hype marketing
> 1623487690 565332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> today people with no math/engineering skills design, approve and even implement most of the software
> 1623487759 194274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i switched way before the spambots started
> 1623487949 978632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i suspect those bots to be somehow paid by freenode to fud on libera
> 1623488032 87560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> spambots started before, they just looked different, were not automated
> 1623488046 551459 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> they were human beings
> 1623488097 33927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> fair enough
> 1623488142 407869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> people didn't need anything to be proven to switch from freenode though
> 1623488198 892514 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I was asking like two times what are the evidence that something bad is happening and all you had was a wikipedia link to some website where guy is called a prince and it's somehow bad or something
> 1623488221 63335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it was a hostile takeover, that's reason enough
> 1623488242 530465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yeah, people say these two words "hostile takeover" with no sense put in it
> 1623488251 434615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it doesn't even matter if there were legal threats or not, it doesn't matter what the intentions from whoever are
> 1623488293 910423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> okay, even if it was not a hostile takeover, i still follow the staff, not the name of the network
> 1623488315 817427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> if the staff saw a reason to leave, so do i
> 1623488357 871972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so stuff are in fact your masters? maybe that's how the "takeover" looks like? they move you from one place to another as they wish
> 1623488395 239209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> what is your reason to choose a network if not the people who operate it?
> 1623488398 701132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> how isn't Andrew a good host?
> 1623488447 414654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> the operators are what define the network, not the name of it
> 1623488475 149177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I have no idea who operates networks and this neither has or have to have any nifluence on my choice
> 1623488494 555045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> my socket connection and ability to talk and run bots works fine on any network
> 1623488523 121620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> too bad for you, then
> 1623488550 728493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> how is it bad to be independent and not a pawn being moved elsewhere because of someon else's personal dramas lol
> 1623488557 478234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I'm still on freenode
> 1623488599 795950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e I didn't have any burned food
> 1623488609 677812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i'm not a pawn being moved. i know staffers personally and i trust them. i have yet to find any positive fact about andrew
> 1623488683 936487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> neither of you did have a burned food
> 1623488690 542786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that was just their personal drama
> 1623488705 125413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> some internal job communication problems
> 1623488795 812548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> what do you mean by "#haskell taking over"? something like with gentoo? the bug in a script with the following apologizing from Andrew's side and purposeful hiding this by gentoo's admins to manipulate their pawns who are happy to be like that?
> 1623488932 987629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I think it's less "taken over by a prince and that's bad" and more "taken over by a businessman running it as some sort of startup, apparently with several reports of harassment against them, opering up known abusers", at least from my POV
> 1623488936 992970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> so either he straight up lies or has no clue on how to run a network in a robust way. great start so far. i also like how you always point out that others believe everything and at the same time are totally fine with him claiming it was an accident that should never ever happen outside of test servers or channels
> 1623488946 196308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or another picture I see here is like starting shitting on the walls. drawing words "ACAB" with a shit, until cops come to stop you and you say "see?! they are arresting me -- that's why I was right shitting on the walls and no one will check the chronology, pawns"
> 1623488965 326580 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> but either way, it doesn't really matter particularly, people are presumably free to choose where they want their communities *shrug*
> 1623489048 193335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "lies or has no clue on how to run a network in a robust way" -- what would you expect when half of staff have left? maybe it was even one of their sabotage scripts, saying "hey dude, run this"
> 1623489058 760981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> sigh...
> 1623489092 292887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> sure, i also always run unchecked code from people that just left me
> 1623489132 444746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> if "half" of staff left, i expect him to either not run untested scripts or just test them locally
> 1623489144 427988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> maybe that sctipr author left on the next day
> 1623489163 691055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i cannot trust him maintaining a reliable network either way
> 1623489172 754177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> all you know is that it was ran and there were apologizings but you don't mentions the latter because that's not the goal of drama
> 1623489231 265205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> no, the apology doesn't matter. if he doesn't know what it does, he should never have run it in the first place. if he did know it, the apology is useless
> 1623489232 807626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I don't think the problem is the script or apologise per se, moreso than the sudden changes in what has previously been perfectly fine for at least two decades on freenode..
> 1623489259 68367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> the whole thing like "can't mention another network in topics because that's advertisement" is... pretty foreign
> 1623489262 778963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> (for instance)
> 1623489273 329781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yep, people self inflicted the network damage
> 1623489302 473859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> what, don't you love censorship in your free network?
> 1623489316 117511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "he should never have run it in the first place" -- he was the one who tried to fix things unlike others
> 1623489330 688626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> what things? what was wrong?
> 1623489387 473628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> how spamming the libera network name in topic better than spamming hamradio channel name?
> 1623489442 995747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I think "this community has moved to X" is uh, not exactly spamming
> 1623489455 238379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so you call stopping you from shitting the walls a censorship?
> 1623489466 872453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> just, like, a friendly PSA to the community in question, if they've decided to move.. be it to libera, or discord, or matrix or whatever
> 1623489490 459079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> okay, at first you didn't know what bots were and now you don't know what spamming is. if channel owners want to include something in their topic, it's their choice. unless it violates law, a network must not forbid me to put whatever i want in there
> 1623489541 43942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> if i spray something on the inside of my wall and get arrested for it, i indeed do call it censorship
> 1623489574 411958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i can do whatever i want in my house
> 1623489583 371026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the network mentions in topic was not a choice -- it was a result of a spam and person-based hate flame effect on channels owners
> 1623489587 687645 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> they were bad ops
> 1623489626 890826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> ah, all ops of the hundreds of channels were bad because they decided to inform their respective community about a change
> 1623489629 471911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i see
> 1623489656 360747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it wasn't only on your inside walls, the whole apartment was smelling with this
> 1623489667 887663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> how so?
> 1623489669 7689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> people were smelling shit in all the channels
> 1623489680 789305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> instead of being on topic
> 1623489688 331202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> yeah, because each house owner decided to paint something on their walls
> 1623489691 623426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> still fine
> 1623489716 7703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> that is nothing that should ever be changed by a network owner
> 1623489813 216892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's exactly what landlords should do -- stop the hype of shitting the walls no matter if they are inside or outside because the whole building started smelling
> 1623489833 29230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> you can probably argue whether or not the choice to switch networks was reasonable. but _if_ i decide to move a community as an op, i should be allowed to put that information in a topic.
> 1623489856 374768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> nakilon: i highly doubt landlords can do anything to you if you spray the inside of your house
> 1623489858 987338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> btw, it's not even the correct analogy -- channels are not personal flats but a common areas like cafes or cinemas
> 1623489865 990967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> at least where i live, they cannot do shit about it
> 1623489894 825120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it's a fundamental right that i can do whatever i want in my house
> 1623489903 608104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so it was a shopping center and cafe owners started serving shit
< 1623489941 434258 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can't farm drugs in your house
< 1623489943 451397 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kill someone
> 1623489944 393928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> if other people don't get affected by it, sure thing
> 1623489966 272169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> yeah, i did mention earlier that you cannot break the law
> 1623490004 717685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> the whole "stinking" argument is nonsens. if i spray my wall, you will not be able to smell that on the outside after like a few days max
> 1623490009 905118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> everyone was affected; people hated this shit so much that agreed to switch just in hope that they'll stop smell what cafe owners did
> 1623490064 219231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> channel topics are the outer side of your door anyway even if ti's a personal flat
> 1623490073 610652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> people are passing by every day 
> 1623490093 329073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and there are rules on what you can do with your door for sure -- you can't shit it
> 1623490100 772299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> how are channel topics the outer side?
> 1623490185 329415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> they are in /list and /chanserv info and on the websites that track the channel topics
> 1623490196 911878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84361&oldid=84322 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-41) 10
> 1623490213 251197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> also it's the same as your balcony and there are rules too about what you can place on your balcony
> 1623490219 940280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> you know why that is? so people can see relevant information. like changes in the community and stuff
> 1623490239 643975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yeah nazism was revelant change in 30s
> 1623490255 685078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> sure, you can go that route, but that is a reason against freenode. i want to be in a network where i can put whatever legal stuff i want to in topics
> 1623490261 87624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so Italy could learn it too
> 1623490263 244816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> then Argentina
> 1623490300 140179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> that comparison is bullshit
> 1623490313 902705 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> in most places, it's highly illegal to do that
> 1623490325 722147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ahah, you won't be able to put the other network name all over the place if that would be caused by that some guy from these team is a prince of some Evil Axis country or something
> 1623490331 838997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it is however not illegal to name a website that is totally legal
> 1623490365 19645 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> sure i will
> 1623490380 858593 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e there should be some law ahout probability that mentioning the logic, ANd and OR would be too
> 1623490398 394482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that's called a learning on mistakes
> 1623490437 968594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the thing is that you again ignore the chronology
> 1623490461 527657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> also, you are comparing a legit network by trusted people with some grey area, which is still bullshit
> 1623490475 183520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the freenode drama started with Andrew's nationality in the first place
> 1623490490 168891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> what? i don't even know andrew's nationality
> 1623490493 699734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> and i don't care
> 1623490498 747273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> ahaha, sure
> 1623490530 595955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> how should i know? it was never mentioned by any of the staffers letters afair
> 1623490550 77989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> his surname is such a secret
> 1623490560 395791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this pretending is too blatant
> 1623490587 540495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> okay, now i pretend because i say i don't care about the nationality of somebody?
> 1623490617 985981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> maybe i read his surname, not sure, i never bothered to remember. i wouldn't even know his first name if you didn't mention it
> 1623490683 430232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> okay, so he is called lee. so what?
> 1623493391 463498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84362 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+2637) 10Created page with "Column is an esoretic programming language developed by Dominicentek. It's code is executed column by column in a text file, rather than line by line like in a typical program..."
> 1623494011 616292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominicentek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84363&oldid=84210 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+13) 10
> 1623494074 479342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84364&oldid=84343 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+13) 10/* C */
> 1623499230 784579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03.yazic 5*  10New user account
> 1623502610 224262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84365&oldid=84364 5* 03ResU 5* (+56) 10added NOTE and Truth Machine
> 1623504044 935938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84366&oldid=84362 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10/* Interpreter */ Category
> 1623505536 315732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> "<int-e> worse noting, I really make th wortht typos" => you managed to type "thwart" correctly
> 1623506109 440049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ok, let's do it right this time, rather than just return from a family break to see the drama played out
> 1623506191 11399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> dear esolangs community, if this channel or the network collapses somehow, even twelve years from now, we will meet on the wiki and on the oftc IRC server channel #esolangs , using whichever works as a lifeboat to decide where to go.
> 1623509952 984389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84367&oldid=84359 5* 03ResU 5* (+121) 10added self-interpreter
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> 1623511660 232956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> That one scene from "Shawshank Redemption" where he's trying to remember how to spell "Zihuatanejo" so he can meet up with his friend~
> 1623511732 774853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Plasmath 5*  10New user account
> 1623512143 251708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/8PFnh0P.png -- how do I decide that the 1st of 3 peaks is what I need?
> 1623512159 409695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the middle peak can be absent
> 1623512213 930865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> the question of image binarizing
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> 1623512497 747952 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> huh?
> 1623512515 757764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> question
> 1623512530 3623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> have you thought of using a neural network to detect the (rotated) letters?
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> 1623512584 137755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> no, I'm doing better than NN can do
> 1623512676 741932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> my captcha solver will have no NN cancer
> 1623512682 996389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> is NN bad?
> 1623512738 735845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> no, it's useless
> 1623512759 961805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> lol
> 1623512902 992324 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> why do you say these things?
> 1623512916 551911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> experience
> 1623512940 689853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> how are letters recognized without?
> 1623512941 505389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> yeah, the most advanced technology we have to date do deal with image recognition is totally useless for image recognition
> 1623512962 326227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> years of observations, math knowledge and marketing understanding
> 1623512974 375805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> undistorted letters should be pretty easy, though
> 1623513014 540024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "how are letters recognized without?" -- with machine learning
> 1623513033 584859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> what
> 1623513045 572636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> do you have a link that explains how to do this machine learning?
> 1623513047 262518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> "NN is useless, just use machine learning"===
> 1623513052 811292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> like, what?
> 1623513067 936500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> machine learning is in most instances done through NN
> 1623513069 470676 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> myname: Careful not to imagine that society is cumulative and always makes forward progress. Sometimes useless technologies are invented.
> 1623513069 837013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> river what do you mean by "this machine learning"?
> 1623513073 863692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> i'v always been curious about making a program that can read text from an image, but never managed it
> 1623513085 369508 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> myname https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_learning
> 1623513086 770578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> Corbin: i do know that
> 1623513138 427300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> nakilon: i am well aware. how does that disproof my statement?
> 1623513160 970167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> your statement isn't proved in the first place
> 1623513185 655718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> myname: Neural nets are generally machine-learning, yes, but not all machine-learning is done through neural nets.
> 1623513200 722731 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> Corbin: i never stated that
> 1623513215 921627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I implemented some example code from https://arxiv.org/abs/1603.01446 the other day, and the learning is done through black-box optimization, not using any gradients or neurons.
> 1623513216 639756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it's just convinient to use for most cases
> 1623513219 138622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> nakilon, how to read text from an image
> 1623513242 277102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> river I already have 10 lines long prototype that recognizes text better than a tool made by 50 people using several multimillion costing NN technologies
> 1623513245 406769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Maybe it's convenient with a toolkit, but NNs to me are expensive, slow, and temperamental.
> 1623513267 227458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> im not the one arguing with you
> 1623513270 496093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and the prototype isn't even aware of language dictionaries
> 1623513271 916010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> the chat is very busy
> 1623513274 331110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> NN is so big that you are probably easier off just using whatever NN framework you have available in your language of choice than writing a machine learning algorithm from scratch
> 1623513276 953829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so once I add them it will do even better
> 1623513280 292440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> hopefully you are not mixing my messags up with anyone elses
> 1623513311 459452 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> river I understand, it's hard to talk meaningful when every 2nd line is a purposeful flame even if not yours
> 1623513321 765228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<river> yes it is quite frustrating
> 1623513482 704135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> having a prototype that recognizes text better than a tool made by 50 people is a bold claim. unless the other tool isn't specifically designed to recognize text, i highly doubt you can give a reasonable metric for that
> 1623513703 137671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> their tool was made specifically for text recognition, my tool is just a wrapped on another thing of mine that isn't even about text
> 1623513717 210564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it was just a library usage example
> 1623513758 741269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 
ACTION afk to a store

> 1623513774 56637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> *wrapper
> 1623513814 766817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> in that case, better publish a paper or even better sell that product
> 1623513881 257838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> myname: Aha! Okay, this is an understandable perspective. I'm usually working in a language I built, so I have to pay the cost of every abstraction. NNs would take a lot of work.
> 1623513953 48530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> that's fine. but if you just want to recognize something and are using python (and aren't doing it for research purposes), there is not much benefit writing a specialized solution over taking one of the larger existing frameworks
> 1623514251 574864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I make this captcha solver for just a personal usage script and maybe will reuse somewhere else in future
> 1623514290 460596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but I checked how much it costs to solve your captcha with a service where a thousand of people are sitting and and solving them
> 1623514330 773371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's ~$1.5 per 1000 captchas but they are doing it in 30 seconds in average while my one is gonna work within 5 sec
> 1623514394 494132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> "yeah, i have this technology written in like 10 lines of codes that could generate me easy passive income, but i will only use it for personal usage, because who needs free money anyways"
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> 1623516560 336256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> not totally useless, alas, but it's overmarketed and somewhat overused
> 1623516723 385411 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> a lot of products have some kind of useless modern machine learning part that is technically in it but not really needed or used, just so they can market it as a product that uses machine learning, because that's fashionable. (blockchain is similar, but even worse; in most products advertised with it it's absolutely useless, as opposed to just mostly useless)
> 1623516757 762027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it used to be JIT and multithreaded, then GPU programming, but the marketing fashions are changing
> 1623516878 957775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> b_jonas: did you know about that first idea about an electronic vaccination passport in germany?
> 1623516885 433729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it's hilarious
> 1623517021 662541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> *sigh* no, I haven't been following that political nonsense and I'm not too interested in it
> 1623517235 421061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I guess I'll just take the peak within the section that ends when it's the first fall to 20% of the peak
> 1623517245 989128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or 30%, whatever
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> 1623519513 851600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Is it possible to define a escape sequence that cancels any further responses from the terminal emulator for previously accepted escape sequences (but does not cancel further ones)?
> 1623519688 455281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but where does Zach propose to get all the energy for the electrolysis? (re "https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/titan")
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> 1623519722 465213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> well it's a nuclear sub, so presumably nuclear power
> 1623519735 214103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> wasteful? yes. possible? also yes
> 1623519899 380012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: wouldn't work too well, because there's a race condition: you wouldn't know when the terminal actually reacted to the escape sequence, and in fact the terminal will likely respond to its input in sequence, so it will react to previous escape sequences before it even reads your recent one. what you can do is to send some escape sequence to which the terminal does react by a response that you can 
> 1623519905 887473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> recognize (you can make that from cursor reads unless the terminal is like 1x1 character in size), then read from the terminal and skip everything until you see that reply
> 1623520024 60494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: there's also an ioctl or some such system call api to flush the input queue of the terminal, but that only really works for a local linux console on /dev/ttyN , for anything else there's a race condition because the terminal logic that gives you responses is in an asyncroniously running process or even on another host
> 1623520082 271850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I know that it won't work for remote terminals; it is for local terminals that I ask about
> 1623520091 72753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> for the local terminal, this is useful and getty or its equivalents do us it, so that the new login doesn't get input left there by a previous login, possibly from a malicious user. for a remote terminal like ssh, you usually start a new terminal connection instead; for serial it's a bit more complicated
> 1623520096 525139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (specifically, local pseudoterminals)
> 1623520120 285521 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: for local pseudoterminals, the terminal emulator process is still asynchroniously scheduled 
> 1623520152 732812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> the latency is probably less than if you're talking through an internet connection on ssh, but qualitatively it's the same
> 1623520230 56228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> on /dev/tty this can only work because the kernel can and does actually access the read queue of the terminal and flush it and does this in a way that synchronizes with its other terminal processing
> 1623520271 37813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you can still flush a pty's queue the same way, but it doesn't really solve the race condition, you still need to wait for the terminal's response to some command you send after that and skip previous responses
> 1623520288 461870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> For example, if you put such a escape sequence in the shell prompt string then any responses to other escape requests (e.g. cursor position, window title, etc) will not be seen by the shell. This can also include keyboard mode; if previous escape sequences set some mode, any keys will be transmitted using the default keyboard mode instead of the new one.
> 1623520296 181448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> unless you can just start a new virtual terminal, which you can actually often do and may be easier (but slower) than resetting an existing one
> 1623520320 440834 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (It could reset other modes too)
> 1623520403 28937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: that's two different problems. there is a sequence "\ec" that resets almost every setting (in some cases it keeps the palette, window size, fonts, window title and icon title, etc), but you still have to skip the input
> 1623520430 739679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> for which I recommend sending a sequence of absolute cursor moves and cursor position reads and wait for the matching response, but perhaps there's a better way
> 1623520469 850040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> you may need something more complicated than just "\ec", I'm not sure, but "\ec" is what does most of the work
> 1623520524 91697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> heck, it even resets the weird "\e12m" mode on linux console that, for some reason, systemd's built-in getty doesn't fix on this debian system. 
> 1623520551 333511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> why doesn't systemd properly reset the terminal? I have no effing clue
> 1623520681 862373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03GreenThePear 5*  10New user account
> 1623520686 854516 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> There are many problems with systemd that I read about, and many people don't like it, you can use something else instead
> 1623520803 109639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: on this computer there are bigger problems with the local console logins than that: the VESA bios is broken and sometimes doesn't properly set the video mode when switching from X11 to the mode that linux graphics mode console uses
> 1623520810 520533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so I don't particularly care about that bug for now
> 1623520848 279156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't know how they messed that up, the bios and the built-in video card are on the same motherboard sold together
> 1623520874 488835 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it's not a separate extension video card (yet)
> 1623521105 564354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84368&oldid=84225 5* 03ResU 5* (+30) 10
> 1623521275 447115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84369&oldid=84336 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+307) 10
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> 1623523449 684105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84370&oldid=84367 5* 03ResU 5* (+544) 10Added prime calculator (my own algorithm)
> 1623523686 639839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84371&oldid=84370 5* 03ResU 5* (+6) 10
> 1623523783 919531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84372&oldid=84371 5* 03ResU 5* (+6) 10/* Prime calculator */
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> 1623529210 368442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84373 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+3893) 10Created
> 1623529282 318026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84374&oldid=84373 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+55) 10
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> 1623529331 723577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84376&oldid=84375 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+0) 10
> 1623529340 372004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84377&oldid=84376 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+2) 10
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> 1623529722 407203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84378&oldid=84377 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (-3) 10
> 1623529826 505932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84379&oldid=84372 5* 03ResU 5* (+234) 10
> 1623530134 786474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84380&oldid=84379 5* 03ResU 5* (+10) 10slightly modified the quine so it is a valid program
> 1623530178 574378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84381&oldid=84378 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (-26) 10
> 1623530259 690428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84382&oldid=84369 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+44) 10
> 1623530863 112207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84383&oldid=84381 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+46) 10Decided to use 's for the raw value instead
> 1623530914 804290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84384&oldid=84365 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+27) 10/* W */
> 1623530935 365008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84385&oldid=84384 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+0) 10/* W */
> 1623530993 548050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84386&oldid=84383 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+0) 10
> 1623531156 7936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84387&oldid=84386 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+3) 10/* Expressions */
> 1623531173 873133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84388&oldid=84382 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+240) 10Added my signature.
> 1623531187 416103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84389&oldid=84387 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+7) 10/* Expressions */
> 1623531279 925813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Plasmath 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Godencode Memory Samples.png10]]"
> 1623531503 535783 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TinyGuy3214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84391 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+829) 10Created page with "==NumberPankackes==   ==Commands==  1X:         pushes X to the stack (you must have a colon at the end of the command)  2           coppys the top of the stack and pushes it..."
> 1623531636 304428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TinyGuy3214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84392&oldid=84391 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (-829) 10Blanked the page
> 1623531833 355526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Plasmath14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84393 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+128) 10Created page with "Hello! I've made some languages, here they are: (I haven't made pages for any of my languages yet, I'll put them here when I do)"
> 1623532646 160428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TinyGuy3214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84394&oldid=84392 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+829) 10
> 1623538869 345586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84395 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+26343) 10Created the page.
> 1623539162 26627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Godencode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84396 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+1282) 10please help finish interpreter
> 1623539183 40815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84397&oldid=84396 5* 03Plasmath 5* (-46) 10
> 1623539737 624934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Primes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84398&oldid=84355 5* 03Meloons 5* (+0) 10lowercase
< 1623541025 388313 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
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< 1623541503 290875 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1623541711 129551 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e832:95e8:fb15:4682 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1623542254 70953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84399&oldid=84380 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Commands */ Modify wording
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> 1623544077 669020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84400&oldid=84395 5* 03ResU 5* (+17) 10
> 1623545199 926542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84401&oldid=78485 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+150) 10Added a section Interpreters with a reference to my implementation and changed the category to Implemented.
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< 1623545872 123300 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:a14f:e2ec:e828:d73 JOIN #esoteric * :anon
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> 1623546970 877869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84402&oldid=84357 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+2108) 10
< 1623547019 140801 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1623548019 383466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84403&oldid=83539 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+400) 10/* Program too long to add into page */ new section
> 1623548094 18107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84404&oldid=84385 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+16) 10Added [[Godencode]].
< 1623548710 397091 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e832:95e8:fb15:4682 JOIN #esoteric * :anon
> 1623548896 229181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84405&oldid=84400 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+87) 10Added an infinite loop. First really simple program.
> 1623548923 703702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84406&oldid=84405 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+1) 10Forgot the code formatting.
< 1623548977 352382 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e832:95e8:fb15:4682 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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> 1623549838 3905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Why do they use YCoCg rather than YCgCo?
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> 1623550217 410338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (It seem to me that YCgCo is making a better prediction based on the valid range due to the value of the previous channels)
> 1623550305 601565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84407 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1030) 10reply
> 1623550470 523610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84408&oldid=84407 5* 03Ais523 5* (+269) 10what about linking to the language page?
< 1623551735 120700 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:a14f:e2ec:e828:d73 JOIN #esoteric * :anon
< 1623552036 127964 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:a14f:e2ec:e828:d73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1623552070 643206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84409&oldid=84408 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+124) 10
> 1623552406 860997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84410&oldid=84409 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+158) 10
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> 1623554661 998478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: you mean like how you order the information in jpeg and such formats? how it would work better if you ordered the channels differently? I don't even know what order it has the channels in. I guess you'd have to test whether it yields a better compression, and of course that may depend on the progressive JPEG scheme. you would have to use an encoder that can take the YUV values directly rather 
> 1623554668 12994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> than RGB though, and I'm not sure what encoder can do that -- I mean ffmpeg can but its jpeg encoder is also terrible and not configurable so it's not a fair test, maybe libjpeg can but I don't know how
> 1623554724 776957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> though the YUV space that JPEG uses isn't quite the same as YCoCg apparently
> 1623554737 904779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I'm confused by so many different linear transformations of color spaces
< 1623554748 897748 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623555057 893349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I guess you'll have to ask the HAM enthusiasts of esolangs
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< 1623556572 747549 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
> 1623558989 899375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> b_jonas: I don't mean JPEG, since I think JPEG doesn't take advantage of the order of the channels to make predictions and that stuff. But, it seems to me that the valid range of values for Cg can depend on Y, and the valid range of values for Co can depend on Cg and Y once they are known.
> 1623559010 983497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Actually I did make up a picture compression based on this, and it seems to work a bit better than PNG
> 1623559047 344476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> (and, unlike PNG, does not require guessing things in order to improve the compression)
> 1623561078 442385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: oh yeah, it's Huffman compression after that linear transformation on blocks, you'
> 1623561113 556966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> re right that it can't take advantage of that kind of thing. I guess I was thinking of PNG, where the deflate step *can* take advantage of correlation between channels
> 1623561127 941925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so JPEG was irrelevant
> 1623561271 707188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I should have known that, because I know how JPEG worked, but I didn't realize. oh well.
> 1623561321 528520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but still, if you think something like flipping the order of chroma channels can help, which I doubt, then you might want to experiment with that on more modern image/video compression formats, ones where it could matter
> 1623561339 320263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I doubt that just flipping two channels would help, but still
> 1623561349 454138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I'm not all that good about image compression
> 1623561405 619624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I had some ideas about them and thought about it enough to realize just how difficult the topic is
> 1623561474 982437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> See the piccomp.c file (SHA-1 hash is c4e5438e358e174cde4b25ecd536d52f59beb702) in TeXnicard
> 1623561591 664669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> basically I tried to think of how to design a good image compression algorithm, and I didn't find a way to get the properties that I want, anything I try would either be bad at compression or would be impossible to implement efficiently, and I have also experimented with existing video compression libraries and they're just too good
> 1623561603 299936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> What properties do you think that you want?
> 1623561624 417677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it shouldn't stop me from thinking of course, but I haven't been able to think of a good enough design yet, so I want to think about it more before I can implement anything
> 1623561786 309718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> zzo38: basically the problem is that decoding something variable width like Huffman is hard in a way that takes advantage of the SIMD capabilities of a CPU (or the same of a GPU). you can parallelize decompression and compression by handling individual large chunk of course, and all the other parts, as in color space transforms and DFT or other linear transforms and PNG-like prediction from previous 
> 1623561792 317968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> value and video compression's testing which neighboring block is the most similar or even estimating the motion delta more efficiently than trying every possible delta, those can be done in SIMD
> 1623561820 730693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> but for the variable bit size huffman-like compression in the end (it doesn't necessarily need to be huffman, could be arithmetic coding) you have to iterate through individual values in series
> 1623561833 885632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I think what PNG does compressing the filter types together with the pixel data is a bad idea; it would be better to be separate
> 1623561884 703227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and if you want something that avoids that, better predicting how much to shift the input data or have a fixed width encoding, that is possible, but then you probably have to rearrange the output pixels in an unpredictable order which is even worse, or do some other intersting thing,
> 1623561895 893668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and I think it's probably possible to avoid this trap, but I couldn't yet think of a good way,
> 1623561915 980337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so I should read up if any existing algorithm does that and still manage to do not terrible compression
< 1623561954 223344 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
> 1623561965 338252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and also think about how it could be done
> 1623561996 561045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> because that's what I'd like to see form an algorithm, at least for *decompression*, it could be slower for compression perhaps, though it's also worth to have other compression methods that are also fast to encode
> 1623562196 188602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> there is some balance between slower compression as a price for slightly smaller encoded form while keeping the same quality and decompression time, and a more important tradeoff of slower compression and decompression and much larger encoded size for better quality, and good image/video encodings already offer both tradeoffs as a somewhat tunable parameter
> 1623562245 176748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> though there is something odd here now that I think of it
> 1623562245 711699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> wait
> 1623562292 781494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> hmm no, nothing
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> 1623564950 288356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84411&oldid=84366 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-2) 10/* Truth Machine */
< 1623565198 743345 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN #esoteric xelxebar :ZNC - https://znc.in
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< 1623570549 309983 :metcalf_!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com NICK :metcalf
> 1623573038 422134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84412&oldid=84411 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+12) 10/* Truth Machine */
< 1623574963 166242 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
> 1623575134 665324 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84413&oldid=84412 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+17) 10/* Fizz Buzz */
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> 1623576644 721004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I don't get it
> 1623576690 563073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this is function k7*x**7+k6*x**6+k5*x**5+k4*x**4+k3*x**3+k2*x**2+k1*x+k0 and  this should be its derivative, right? k7*x**6+k6*x**5+k5*x**4+k4*x**3+k3*x**2+k2*x+k1
> 1623576785 444904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> but the bottom line doesn't look like derivative of upper one https://i.imgur.com/Pljjzyq.png
> 1623576804 898231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it doesn't get above 0 in the middle
> 1623576850 784648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> k0..k7 = [86.37483858758613, -4.3258409149187855, 0.13119312931328275, -0.0022258811427750126, 2.156489053721058e-05, -1.1221319014114155e-07, 2.8163872939164175e-10, -2.530165279150212e-13]
< 1623576963 811385 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
> 1623576971 102721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh no, forgot to multiply by 7, 6, ...
< 1623577003 341620 :esowiki1!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi JOIN #esoteric * :esowiki
< 1623577016 660331 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org NICK :Guest97824
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< 1623577357 690036 :esowiki1!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi NICK :esowiki
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> 1623578711 771287 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> b_jonas I've got another example https://i.imgur.com/BlsjZrI.png -- problem here is that they use several different captcha generators and this one doesn't rotate but skews the letters
> 1623579122 121002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: yeah, that can help with the captchas
> 1623579158 365803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> uhm, the derivative of k7*x^7 isn't k7*x^6 but 7*k7^6
> 1623579188 352629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> same issue with each other part of the sum except the last because x^1 will get a factor of 1
> 1623579214 494162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> also, bit surprise, captchas are made to be hard to read
> 1623579334 180130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ultlang 5*  10moved [[02Delta Salein Ao10]] to [[Delta Salein ]]: the actual name
> 1623579352 49104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this one is skewed too, not rotated https://i.imgur.com/dVMMdkT.png
> 1623579382 336113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Delta Salein 14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84416&oldid=84414 5* 03Ultlang 5* (+5) 10
> 1623579450 168793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> gotta somehow differentiate them to switch the way of chosing the closest line dot -- using "min x1-x2" instead of "min hypot x1-x2, y1-y2"
> 1623579526 503858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> or just try both ways until I see which one makes better results on the OCR stage
> 1623580525 113821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84417&oldid=84389 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+827) 10Revamped the commands, all [x] input will be used as an index + fixing some mistakes
> 1623583104 258607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> myname: yes, and nakilon corrected himself about the derivatives a few lines later, and this time I wasn't hasty enough to reply before reading that
> 1623583362 508490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84418&oldid=84413 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+137) 10
> 1623583746 174412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NumberPankackes14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84419 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+1110) 10Created page with "==NumberPankackes== NumberPankackes is a stack-based esoteric programing language what a stck is: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stack  ==Commands==  1X:         pushes X to the st..."
> 1623583784 817511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TinyGuy3214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84420&oldid=84394 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (-829) 10Blanked the page
> 1623583808 681651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> is there a tool that lets me easily cut a picture from an image out/remove background
> 1623583817 547652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> GIMPs 'intelligent scissors' aren't that great for it
> 1623583848 290006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> I feel like with modern stuff.. it should be possible to just draw a rough outline and get a perfect cutout
> 1623584094 667081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84421&oldid=84404 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+44) 10
> 1623584350 149364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NumberPankackes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84422&oldid=84419 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+2) 10
> 1623584363 31750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> riv: it really depends on the image, but try ones that require both a positive and negative sample, that is, points marked strictly inside and strictly outside the object, rather then a rough outline. try (1) GIMP's new foreground select tool, and (2) the GMIC QT gimp plugin's colorizer tools, which are intended to color black and white photos and black and white line art respectively (that's two 
> 1623584369 145777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> separate tools) based on another image with sample points of color in the objects, but you can ask them for the masks of which colors go exactly where and use that to get a selection mask that you use for something other than selecting an object
> 1623584387 397023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> they aren't perfect, but I think they work better than GIMP intelligent scissors
> 1623584419 459248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> http://gmic.eu/ to download the G'MIC QT Gimp plugin on windows; install from distro on debian
> 1623584449 132854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> note that Gimp has a decent ABI so the same plugin compiled once can be reused for different minor versions of GIMP
> 1623584516 709130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> which means you can install G'MIC QT from debian and it will work for a newer version of Gimp that you install from source, as I learned
> 1623584541 418512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> that was back when Gimp 2 wasn't yet in debian and I really really wanted Gimp 2 so I installed from source
> 1623584553 170037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> now Gimp 2 is in debian stable, and I love that
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> 1623586087 844266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> now the correctness is limited by how well I apply dilations to make skeletonization go well https://i.imgur.com/ckuQeDp.png
> 1623586151 333227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> riv there was online service
> 1623586154 978998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: yes, and that part is hard
> 1623586182 60002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this or maybe it's a clone https://www.remove.bg/ru
> 1623586462 53478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/Ux0aQTH.png
> 1623586512 430117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> thanks
> 1623586578 182495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I actually could apply the whole process twice but pixels are rotting
< 1623586603 783815 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to teach bot to cheat at captchas?
> 1623586641 728506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yeah, script that would send me new vacancies from local job search site
< 1623586664 685188 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there was a fun trick at some point where captchas consisted in two words; the first word was meant to tell whether the user was human or not; the second word was much easier to decipher and actually came from scanned books
< 1623586686 948663 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in two months they had digitalized an entire library without optical recognition software
> 1623586704 435242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yeah I guess that was recaptcha
> 1623586723 190130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> now they are teaching self-driving cars
> 1623586909 478751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: and Google Maps to read house numbers from blurred photos, surely you noticed those captchas
> 1623586960 722915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> blurred or just photos taken from the distance by self-driven cars to teach them navigate?
< 1623587010 54867 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember house numbers
> 1623587070 745681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: not deliberately blurred, just taken from a distance either by the same cars that Google Maps uses to make street view, or more likely by the airplane cameras that they used to make the incredibly high resolution "satellite view" from five different camera directions that isn't actually from satellites
> 1623587102 111518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> didn't know about airplanes
> 1623587114 25769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> as in, satellite view _is_ from satellites in most areas of the map, but in those places it's also low resolution and only has one camera direction 
> 1623587139 869283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> so in more populated places that most people view on the map, they used airplane cameras, which can give much higher quality
> 1623587146 432019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that would explain how they made all the trees and buildings 3d in there
> 1623587151 71718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> just because they're closer
> 1623587193 894319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: well that's only part of it, part of the 3D buildings are modeled from their street view photos and from random location-tagged photos from the internet corellated by really clever software, the same way as we model 3d objects from 2d photos except they do it better
> 1623587247 994151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and of course some of this is just speculation because they don't tell all the details about how they got every image, they only tell when that was a requirement to buy a license of pictures that other people made not specifically for them
> 1623588034 832015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NumberPankackes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84423&oldid=84422 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-45) 10Link to page directly
> 1623588070 492384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84424&oldid=84421 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-22) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ Remove duplicate
> 1623588139 790246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> at first they were croudsourcing
> 1623588158 829817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it was called Warehouse 3d and people could make models of things in Sketchup
> 1623588174 67570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> Sketchup was freeware and a great fun
> 1623588242 156591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What Mains Numbers?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84425&oldid=64983 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10/* Implementations */ Cat
> 1623588248 497854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> so I made models for 2-3 buildings in my town, uploaded and they were in Google Earth since then; but now I can't even find them on their website, idk
> 1623588281 664706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you could create collections and become moderator of them, similar to how people build wikipedia
> 1623588321 133504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Soundandfury/ECLAIR14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84426&oldid=33340 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Implementation */ Deadlink
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> 1623590332 886066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84427&oldid=84418 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-42) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1623590334 72869 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623590357 889845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84428&oldid=84361 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-41) 10/* Development Kit */
> 1623590450 991559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84429&oldid=84393 5* 03Plasmath 5* (-66) 10Added [[Godencode]].
> 1623590990 425683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84430&oldid=83967 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+20) 10I'm trying to add Godencode, but it hasn't been letting me. Making it a 2-step process might work?
> 1623591338 346736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84431&oldid=84430 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+47) 10
< 1623591570 546154 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
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> 1623593025 243841 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cheese14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84432&oldid=83055 5* 03Sanscicondos 5* (+49) 10
> 1623593049 570903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cheese14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84433&oldid=84432 5* 03Sanscicondos 5* (+13) 10Added Version 1.3.5 to Github
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> 1623595732 148117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kermek 5*  10New user account
> 1623596102 280810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84434&oldid=84388 5* 03Kermek 5* (+407) 10
> 1623596153 767576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84435&oldid=84434 5* 03Kermek 5* (-76) 10
> 1623596182 375404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84436&oldid=84435 5* 03Kermek 5* (-6) 10
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> 1623599370 456266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> made the second pass https://i.imgur.com/Jq2LUCj.png
> 1623599941 520523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84437&oldid=79507 5* 03Cybertelx 5* (+15) 10Added LongDick language
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> 1623600807 471189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LongDick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84438&oldid=83816 5* 03Cybertelx 5* (+19) 10link me
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> 1623601992 829074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VBF14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84439 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+2464) 10created the page
> 1623602060 878032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84440&oldid=84439 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+15) 10add "and transpiler" to implementation link
> 1623602416 884283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07For The Worthy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84441 5* 03Kermek 5* (+5730) 10Created page with "'''For The Worthy''' is an esolang witch only interprets the '1' and '0' characters, thus enabling programmers to reach their final hackerman form. ==Language Overview== ===In..."
< 1623602459 950248 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 JOIN #esoteric * :https://webchat.freenode.net
< 1623602519 753252 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all. I have a quick question. Is the sort of completeness that Godel talks about equivalent to TC under the Curry-Howard correspondence?
> 1623602662 899058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84442&oldid=84424 5* 03Kermek 5* (+21) 10
< 1623602702 98337 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, if so, is it fair to say that one way to describe the split between computer science and mathematics is in how each field responds to Godel's incompleteness theorem? i.e. mathematicians err on the side of consistency while computer scientists err on the side of completeness?
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> 1623602951 980396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> Godels completeness theorem states that in a first order logic, if a formula is true in all models it is provable
> 1623603005 432539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> Godels incompleteness theorem states that arithmetic (and extensions) contain statements that are neither provable or disprovable
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> 1623603097 680104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> the halting problem gives an explicit example of a problem that cannot be solved by a turing machine
> 1623603113 787270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:VilgotanL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84443&oldid=83804 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+10) 10add vbf to language list
< 1623603134 617947 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and under the Curry-Howard correspondence, a type system is in some sense equivalent to a Hilbert style deductive system in logic. If a no non-normalizing expression is well typed, then the corresponding logic is consistent, right?
> 1623603167 128488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> Curry-Howard correspondence equates proofs and programs
< 1623603205 849571 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and formulas as type definitions, among other things, right?
> 1623603214 83015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> generally consistency of a typed lambda calculus based logic is proven by showing (A) strong normalization (B) False does not have a normal form - this implies consistency as inconsistency would let you prove False
> 1623603235 289983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> orbitaldecay72: If you want the short answer, then yes, by Lawvere's fixed-point theorem: http://tac.mta.ca/tac/reprints/articles/15/tr15.pdf
< 1623603266 512204 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, looking for the short answer to test my intuition. Thanks for the link.
< 1623603269 847383 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appreciate you both.
> 1623603270 635382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> This is a very abstract category-theoretic statement. It can be specialized to get Gödel's Incompleteness, and also to get Turing's Halting.
< 1623603303 210917 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like I need to learn category theory :)
> 1623603346 91622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> The completeness that Godel talks about is not the same as turing completeness
> 1623603364 887723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> the fact that there are problems a turing machine can't solve is a type of incompleteness
< 1623603371 391773 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
> 1623603383 820913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I think that there were many different reactions to our discovery of computability theory. I don't think it's reasonable to cleave computer science from maths; computer science is the study of algorithms and data structures, which is a special case of studying abstraca.
< 1623603385 456843 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623603388 143236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> turing completeness <- may be better referred to as turing equivalence
> 1623603437 932589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Oh, I misread the original question, sorry.
> 1623603474 4939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Gödel's Completeness is quite different from Gödel's Incompleteness! I don't know how the former relates to Turing's work, sorry.
< 1623603493 114268 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so in the Curry-Howard sense the halting problem corresponds to some theorem that can neither be proven nor disproven?
< 1623603496 981102 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Np, thanks Corbin
< 1623603539 255708 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for my vagueness
< 1623603546 439905 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still learning
> 1623603546 743073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/avigad/Teaching/halting.pdf there is a direct proof here of godels first incompleteness theorem using the halting problem as the key element, rather than godels original proof which used a self referential formula as the key element
< 1623603565 335002 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :riv: beautiful, this is exactly what I was looking for
< 1623603566 458171 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
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> 1623603572 862374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> > in the Curry-Howard sense the halting problem corresponds to some theorem that can neither be proven nor disproven?
> 1623603574 439923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘in’
> 1623603585 187949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84444&oldid=84442 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+67) 10add my newest 5 languages
> 1623603589 870426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> no, turing machines aren't a typed lambda calculi - so you cannot apply Curry-Howard here
< 1623603637 827159 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I get that, but typed lambda calculi are of course in some sense equivalent to turing machines, just wondering if it makes sense theoretically
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> 1623603654 749975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> a typed lambda calculus must not be turing equivalent
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< 1623603657 62705 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, lambda calculi in general are in some sense equivalent to turing machines
< 1623603659 252928 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
> 1623603670 353040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> the strong normalization condition says that every algorithm terminates in a finite number of steps
< 1623603671 287963 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that simply typed lambda calculus is not tc
< 1623603679 411459 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
> 1623603683 9159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> neither is dependently typed, like Coq for example
> 1623603697 602644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> this is what enables a consistency proof to be done
> 1623603702 680084 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> riv: Note that Curry-Howard-Lambek still applies, and typed lambda calculi each give a Cartesian closed category for a model, where we can try to apply Lawvere's fixed-point theorem.
< 1623603761 209949 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric * :LKoen
> 1623603763 583067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> But yeah, generally when it *does* apply, there's enough data for a Turing category, where there's an object representing all of the untyped terms.
< 1623603799 175457 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:a14f:e2ec:e828:d73 JOIN #esoteric * :anon
> 1623603811 685821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> the untyped lambda calculus is turing equivalent, but it doesn't have types that you can interpret as logical formulae - so no Curry-Howard bridge there
> 1623603815 811532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> There's nice tables at https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/computational+trilogy which are recently redone and looking nice.
< 1623603897 214279 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, another related question, when Godel talks about incompleteness, is this in some sense equivalent to sub tc? Re: what Corbin was mentioning.
> 1623603927 569917 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Turing showed that there's a computer program which, if given a program that could solve Halting, creates a contradiction.
< 1623603994 668671 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my understanding of how the halting problem is proven to be uncomputable
> 1623603997 386688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Let "Truth" be the question of whether a formula in arithmetic is true. Gödel showed that there's a proof which, if given a proof that could solve Truth, creates a contradiction.
> 1623604029 354081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> (Technically Tarski showed this, and similarly we can't mention Turing without the far-more-useful Rice's Theorem; there's too many people to remember~)
< 1623604050 475376 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, we all stand on the shoulders of history :)
> 1623604130 296796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> What is the connection between Tarski's undefinability of truth and Godels incompleteness?
> 1623604150 228862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> > The undefinability theorem is conventionally attributed to Alfred Tarski. Gödel also discovered the undefinability theorem in 1930, while proving his incompleteness theorems published in 1931, and well before the 1933 publication of Tarski's work
> 1623604151 968965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  <hint>:1:124: error: parse error on input ‘in’
> 1623604153 790786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> oh that is funny I didn't know that
> 1623604326 139472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> it doesn't seem to imply godels incompleteness
> 1623604530 473088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> BTW, https://www.logicmatters.net/resources/pdfs/godelbook/GodelBookLM.pdf is quite good, for anybody wanting to understand all that Gödelian stuff. I had to take it slow, because the details are extremely nuanced.
> 1623604695 240681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> If you just want to see how category theorists might apply Lawvere's work to simplify thinking about all of this, then https://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0305282.pdf is so good.
> 1623605357 200032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84445&oldid=84417 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+47) 10Clarifications and fixes about the number system, plus other polishing
> 1623605495 937205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> https://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0305282.pdf <- this is really cool!
> 1623605726 430812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84446&oldid=84406 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+124) 10Forgot one small part of if command.
> 1623605781 760091 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> The Lob's Paradox one is a bit jarring
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> 1623606933 875160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84447&oldid=84446 5* 03Plasmath 5* (-3) 10Made another mistake in the description.
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> 1623607516 849926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84448&oldid=84447 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+16) 10I think I finally worded this in a good way.
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< 1623607892 627877 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corbin: I'm thinking more about my comments on the distinction between computer science and mathematics. Most of my experience is as a software engineer. My education is in math, but I don't know a lot about proof theory. The thing I noticed is that, AFAIK, a program which does not halt corresponds to a proof of a contradiction in mathematics by
< 1623607893 126593 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curry-Howard. In programming, we use languages that permit infinite loops, but in mathematics we don't use axiom systems that allow proving contradictions.
< 1623607922 611632 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the surface, this makes sense because in classical logic if we permit a contradiction as a theorem, then everything entails. But in paraconsistent logics this is not true.
< 1623607943 100440 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As paraconsistent logics explicitly reject the principle of explosion.
< 1623608012 814887 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, why don't mathematicians use paraconsistent logics to permit a small class of contradictions as theorems but software engineers use languages that permit infinite loops?
> 1623608029 889174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84449&oldid=84448 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+31) 10Forgot yet another thing about this command. This is it though. I've made sure.
< 1623608029 975032 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this make sense, or am I way off?
< 1623608183 814467 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognize that what I'm proposing is a totally reformulation of how math is done, but just wondering in the spirit of intellectual inquiry
> 1623608249 469810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Sure, and the philosophy of why logic is even a good idea is historically important. Frege and Quine had strong but inscrutable opinions on this sort of thing.
> 1623608334 706147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> forbidding infinite loops would need you to solve the halting problem, doesn't it?
> 1623608335 218081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Meta Memes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84450&oldid=72253 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+9) 10Stubbify
< 1623608342 887959 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, glad I'm making sense. I recently learned about paraconsistent logics and dialetheism and immediately sensed a correlation between what those philosophies are advocating and what I do as a software engineer.
> 1623608345 420395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> doesn't sound like an easy task for me
< 1623608356 615195 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: nah, just make your language sub turing
> 1623608365 273405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> There is an old question: Shouldn't contradictions be relevant to the proofs which use them? If I prove that the sky is simultaneously blue and not-blue, does that make 1=2? If so, *how*?
> 1623608379 124557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84451&oldid=84449 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+0) 10My documentation was hard to read.
> 1623608380 285410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> great, have a language that probably cannot do the task you are trying to solve
> 1623608430 773934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Ah, sure. Note that a proper dialethist cannot refute a trivialist, who claims that all things are true. In particular, a dialethist cannot prove to them that anything is false; the law of non-contradiction is a missing logical lever they'd need.
< 1623608483 312456 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corbin: Yeah, of course. There are definitely philosophical issues with dialetheism too, I just noticed that philosophically it was closer to what I was doing than classic logic was.
> 1623608484 211300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> myname: Most GPU programs are not Turing-complete. Instead, a Turing-complete CPU program repeatedly takes bounded steps by submitting bounded programs to the GPU.
> 1623608529 735326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> sure, you can have arbitrary many sub-tc sub-tasks, but you want to have a tc system at some point or another
< 1623608532 193884 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. by using a language that allows for infinite loops I'm implicity rejecting non-contradiction
> 1623608554 62193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> orbitaldecay72: I'm looking for a good reference, but a simple slogan is "there's no type of non-halting programs", along myname's lines. This means that it's not possible to use Curry-Howard to try to construct a family of usable contraditions.
> 1623608615 203790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> also, at least in terms of semantics, an infinite loop is considered to have no semantical meaning. it's just one of the points where theory and practice diverge
> 1623608616 646785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> In general, computers are constructive and effective, so while we don't have LEM or Choice, we do still have intuitionistic type theory, which is plenty powerful.
< 1623608617 664404 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where I don't know enough about formal type theory to recognize what is a limitation of classical logic, and what is a limitation of type theory
> 1623608627 938916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> imperative programming makes things hard
> 1623608660 805027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> orbitaldecay72: Lucky 10000: https://www.ams.org/journals/bull/2017-54-03/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4.pdf
< 1623608746 782280 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corbin: thanks!
> 1623608780 122683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Ha, don't thank me yet. It took me a while to personally overcome old beliefs about maths and accept topos theory as a reasonable way to get things done.
< 1623608823 667211 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thinking is this. We can definitely construct a Hilbert style axiom system that allows us to prove a contradiction (we have to try hard to avoid this). If type systems are basically equivalent to these, then why can't we construct a type system in which a non-normalizing term is well typed?
< 1623608832 303091 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corbin: I'm always trying to overcome old beliefs :)
< 1623608881 166267 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, I'm way out of my depth here. Just trying to develop some sort of intuition for the topic.
> 1623608953 425294 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> No worries. The answer I'd choose to keep going with Curry-Howard-Lambek, and do some category theory. We usually say that proofs of contradiction are rare because they can be shown to be categorically equivalent.
> 1623609006 576801 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Categorically, an arrow into the initial object can only come from another initial object, and they're isomorphic. Logically, a proof of contradiction can only come from another contradiction, and they're equivalent.
< 1623609017 328902 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. I'll follow up with the category theory. Whenever I start barking about these questions I almost universally hear, "See category theory". Unfortunately I haven't done that yet, so I suppose I should!
> 1623609044 836843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> (Constructively, recally that a proof of contradiction ~P is literally something like "P -> false". Being able to logically entail falsity is the ur-contradiction.)
< 1623609076 579388 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corbin: But doesn't this all presuppose classical logic? i.e. what if we are using a logic in which contradiction doesn't entail everything?
< 1623609086 453110 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I missing the point?
> 1623609114 951366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Category theory's just so much neater for logic. Like, take *any* formal logic with rewrite rules. There's a category whose objects are equivalence classes of terms, and whose arrows embody the rewrite rules.
> 1623609127 870915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:GreenThePear14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84452 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+702) 10Created
< 1623609136 846205 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. Alright, next stop category theory :)
< 1623609143 378337 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it.
> 1623609215 300039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> This all presupposes some constructive logic, but not classical logic. That's the key change in POV. And yes, it's possible to build interesting paraconsistent models, and also to require relevance for contradictions, but we don't necessarily know how to implement those in computers.
> 1623609243 128344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> No worries. Sorry for dumping so much information onto you; hopefully it makes a little sense. Bauer's paper is really eye-opening on its own.
< 1623609485 336658 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The information is great. I come here whenever I have a question that I'm having trouble answering because invariably I get a ton of information dumped on me haha
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> 1623609890 112379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> if categories are great why aren't there 2-categories?
< 1623609894 813295 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
> 1623609960 222127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> riv: there are
> 1623610056 812802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/ (note: i'm not really a follower but i've heard about it)
> 1623610073 609856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> :O
> 1623610095 724998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84453&oldid=84445 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (-4) 10/* Examples */
> 1623610210 361685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Python is Magic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84454 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (+6954) 10Created page with "Python is Magic is a very restricted version of Python 3. On Python is Magic, only magic functions can be used.  ==Warm-up== This is a valid Python is Magic code:  __name__.__..."
> 1623610224 971748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_category_theory might be more elucidating. (i haven't read that either.)
> 1623610252 454768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i was about to mention shachaf, i think he knows a lot more about it than i
> 1623610278 505813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> if you can keep him from doing feline puns
> 1623610301 752285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Gilbert18914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84455&oldid=81403 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (-61) 10
> 1623610302 420117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> https://www.reddit.com/r/confusing_perspective/comments/c95247/siamese_twins_cats/ here is a 2-cat
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> 1623610683 275569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> As a warmup, my housecat was yowling all last night. We got a little cat opera'd.
> 1623610715 299225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I still like "sets are 0-categories"; all of the structure of set theory is like a "decategorified" version of category theory.
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> 1623610901 294454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> O_O
> 1623610906 358991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> is this true?
> 1623610946 447436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> 
ACTION wonders too

> 1623610985 824913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> one conversation about image processing and one about formal logic. I don't contribute much today, but I'm glad the channel is back to its old weird self
> 1623610998 298363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> it slightly reminds me that certain definitions of dimension consider the empty set -1-dimensional
> 1623611102 960412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i'd have to look that up
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> 1623611191 336290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#Topological_spaces starts with the lebesgue covering dimension which is an example
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> 1623611388 376264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> b_jonas, thanks!
> 1623611402 154720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> seems to be true for the inductive ones too
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> 1623613977 756985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Emoji-gramming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84456&oldid=83822 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+563) 10/* Sign checking */
> 1623614339 113383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and the weird thing is, half of the nicks I don't even recognize from earlier, and I wonder if people just took the opportunity at the network switch to choose new nicks and I'm so stupid as to not recognize them after that, but that probably isn't the case
> 1623614392 548988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> this channel does somehow indeed manage to pull in new weird people, even though I have no idea how they find their way here because we don't advertise ourselves very much and I find it hard to find my way into these kinds of communities
> 1623614417 993045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> also I have all sorts of personal problems and sometimes you help but sometimes you cause me to stay up at night when I really shoulnd't, not that I'm blaming you, just saying
> 1623614448 852516 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and the sad part is when that happens and I know that the other people who I'm talking to are Europeans and have a messed up sleep cycle hurting them too
> 1623614480 385198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> the "booleans are just -1-categories" thing sounds somehow wrong though
> 1623614508 129830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> or at least not true in the literal sense but perhaps there's some interesting enough analogy there that might work even if not in the literal sense
> 1623614516 91016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> b_jonas, i used to be rain1
> 1623614524 270889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oh!
> 1623614534 418146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> that explains part of it
> 1623614545 664069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and I knwo that moony renamed himself to, um, let me consult NAMES
> 1623614599 987405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> b_jonas: i know at least keegan took that opportunity too
> 1623614650 6627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and perhaps some old people who left #esoteric for years but stayed on freenode, they took this oppurtunity to just CHECK on which old channels move there because they wanted to know just in case, and joined, and got stuck
> 1623614659 928700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> because that's certainly something I'd do with other channels
> 1623614691 158938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> anyway, moony took a short nick and I think I'll recognize him if he returns under that
> 1623614701 410691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I had to change my nickname to velik
> 1623614708 562543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and rename bot to nakilon
> 1623614728 133846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> what? "had to" but renamed the bot to the old name?
> 1623614758 57677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I just realised that I had to
> 1623614758 907007 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> (well he's called "moon" now, but some people switch between nicks)
> 1623614763 683227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> ah, that thing
> 1623614764 221817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> to confuse b_jonas
> 1623614792 788505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> yeah, that makes more sense even though I never felt the need, perhaps because I feel lucky for choosing b_jonas because it's a better name than I knew when I came up with it
> 1623614798 712995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> i thought moon had always been switching nicks
> 1623614805 254399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I still don't know who's the pythondebugshell
> 1623614806 70828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oerjan: yeah
> 1623614809 958823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> but usualy not very far
> 1623614816 575048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> that's why I recognize him more easily
> 1623614838 862765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I still don't know who Corbin is, and of course sometimes wonder about people who I do recall but don't seem to come in anymore
> 1623614864 125178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> although... there is a certain person who used to come in and I think used to ask about formal logic... I wonder
> 1623614867 893736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> i know who Corbin is :>
> 1623614899 297878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> no, probably no, because I think they're from another continent
> 1623614907 690711 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> 
ACTION looks quizzically at Corbin 

> 1623614909 951474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> orbitaldecay72 is the one who had that amazing stuff about bitfuck right?
> 1623614923 364544 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "I have all sorts of personal problems" -- heh, I'm a meter away from losing a flat and being kicked out of the country, and it makes me have bad dreams every night now
> 1623614937 460744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> omg that sounds horrible and stressful D:
> 1623614945 987162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it does, yes
> 1623615031 268706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> ouch
> 1623615050 857966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> also, don't take this the wrong way, but hearing that from other people also makes it seem like this is back to good old #esoteric, because they're willing to share more than I do
> 1623615069 703332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> about their problems, that is, not that I'm too careful about letting private details on
> 1623615279 164159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and I think that one terrible time when I was in a psychiatric hospital in 2018, the one I don't talk about often, part of what helped me shrug some of it off (besides my parents' care and being lucky about which doctor happened to do urgent care that night) was that I recalled that at least two different people on #esoteric told me earlier about when they were in psychiatric hospital, and I wasn't 
> 1623615285 191604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> thinking they were in great state, but they survived being in a hospital, one even for an extended time and IRCing from there, and didn't seem to be completely broken even months after, 
> 1623615305 91401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> plus similar stories from other weird parts of the internet
> 1623615344 983865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> although it also worked because at least I did learn what I really should pay attention to in order to not get back there again
> 1623615395 223797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I just rarely feel stupid enough to discuss it in logged and googleable parts of the internet, especially as I know my nick isn't all that secret
> 1623615481 223937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> and it would have been wiser to use a disposable alternate nick, if not now, at least that one time when I posted about it to a forum
> 1623615575 844869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> woah, there are at least three people here who were in psychiatric hospitals?
> 1623615627 934416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> I do miss some of the people who used to come here
> 1623615734 463442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I would probably not mind to get stuck in anywhere as long as there are some family members or friends to take care of your home, bills, hypothetical cat, etc.
> 1623615751 732920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> lol, hypothetical cat
> 1623616319 908481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> nakilon: yes
> 1623616334 294231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> at least if you count people who used to be here at some point but might not visit now
> 1623616444 353150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I wasn't *stuck*. it was a short time, I knew I'd get out soon, that's what the doctor said to me and she was right, and once she even allowed me to temporarily leave for a few hours in what she said was against the hospital's rules (not that I have illusions about those rules consistently being kept) because my family promised to bring me back
> 1623616476 555559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> it's the at least one other user, the one who IRCed from the hospital, regularly, who was stuck
> 1623616530 224680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't pretend that I'm not stuck with a psychiatric condition that I'd have to be careful with for my whole life even if I managed to get my life mostly normal, but I was not stuck in the hospital
> 1623617941 890779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> also hi future boss, who will probably find this months or years from now when searching for my name, I know you're listening and want to find out what I'm hiding by looking on the internet and asking previous employers' opinions, and you're going to pay me less money if you don't just reject me completely, but I think I wouldn't want to work in a company that has managers less diligent than that, I 
> 1623617947 864651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> couldn't trust that they could keep themselves in the business
< 1623618088 110100 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623618841 768959 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric LKoen :LKoen
< 1623619453 205641 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN #esoteric * :harha
< 1623619571 290269 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623619586 221507 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623619660 970285 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
< 1623619984 415318 :harha!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN #esoteric * :harha
> 1623620139 668598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<aarchi> Does anyone by chance have a copy of the HaPyLi compiler? It's a Haskell/Python/Lisp-like language that compiles to Whitespace.
< 1623620142 451222 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623620155 331551 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623620155 442955 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623620157 739870 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623620201 173017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<aarchi> The website went offline around 2012 and it wasn't completely archived on the Internet Archive.
< 1623620505 213861 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN #esoteric * :harha
< 1623620657 761496 :Noisytoot_!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
< 1623620774 485739 :harha!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1623620775 152656 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1623621106 500916 :Noisytoot_!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot NICK :Noisytoot
> 1623621412 582132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> 
ACTION counts herself very glad nobody else wants pikhq

> 1623621456 549824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> riv: yeah, i miss some people who used to be here too. still in touch with some though i don't talk with them much; also still frequently in touch with others
> 1623621471 537362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> oh that's nice
> 1623621503 556185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> and re: psych hospital. glad i've never been in one but fuck i've been close
> 1623621603 197698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> turns out being into absolutely weird programming languages has a high overlap with just being weird as a person in one of a few different ways
> 1623621713 148367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84457&oldid=84358 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+94) 10The {edit} macro in Free Hero Mesh
< 1623621789 527658 :orbitaldecay72!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed
> 1623622285 258823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> i mean i am very much a weird person so :p
> 1623622960 946944 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> pikhq: yes, but how do so many of those kinds of people actually find their way here, that's what I don't understand
> 1623623086 393157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I don't understand that even after I just personally recommended this channel to someone and they came here
> 1623623109 326009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> because how did I find them in first place
> 1623623117 790894 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> if you're that sort of weird you're gonna actively seek it out
> 1623623219 136075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I don't have a copy of the HaPyLi
> 1623623521 976531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Hjoker4 5*  10New user account
< 1623623771 258477 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623623787 489470 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623624058 470093 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623624553 796847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Do you like the picture editor of Free Hero Mesh?
< 1623624878 663248 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1623624989 213654 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623625547 564183 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623625552 452779 :user3456_!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-capzrqgezyryupba QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1623625562 429406 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623625662 217959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Will they add the Quasijarus compression format into newer versions of GNU/Linux and/or non-Quasijarus BSD?
< 1623625746 784772 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xaxfidxdfqgvwoua JOIN #esoteric user3456 :user3456
< 1623625792 780505 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esoteric * :LKoen
> 1623626091 749174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84458&oldid=84356 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+211) 10
> 1623626283 865307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sknebel> if you ever dig into esolangs even a bit and want to talk to people into them this channel is hard to not find. the esolangs wiki is like the resource referenced everywhere after all
> 1623626710 540733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> yep
> 1623626788 738967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> hence how i found it when i was, like, 15
> 1623627642 118654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84459&oldid=84458 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+99) 10
> 1623628021 427772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84460&oldid=84440 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* Implementations */ Cats
> 1623628071 510279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84461&oldid=84459 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+149) 10
> 1623628104 440544 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GotoFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84462&oldid=83713 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+78) 10/* Implementations */ Cats, see also
> 1623628121 208566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84463&oldid=74090 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* See also */ See also.
< 1623628172 75977 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
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< 1623628287 735723 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623628314 967624 :orbitaldecay17!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 JOIN #esoteric * :https://webchat.freenode.net
< 1623628405 375683 :orbitaldecay17!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :riv: yep! I was playing around with bitfuck a few years ago.
< 1623628437 427054 :orbitaldecay17!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically messing around with the reversible variant, which permits some interesting minimizations
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< 1623628557 430482 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-162-128-62.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623628826 855931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turkey14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84464 5* 03ResU 5* (+1743) 10Created page with "Turkey is a derivative of [[Chicken]]. It was created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. ==Commands== {| class=wikitable !Opcode !Description |- |1 |Prints "turkey". |- |2-27 |Prints t..."
> 1623629059 837774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GotoFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84465&oldid=84462 5* 03ResU 5* (-1) 10/* Instructions */
< 1623629117 202328 :563AAAAAB!~GREATEST@107.167.8.10 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
> 1623629211 152171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Delta Salein 14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84466 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+818) 10reverse engineering a possible truth machine
> 1623629537 919788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072Swap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84467&oldid=83521 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* Implementations */ Cat
< 1623629637 510934 :orbitaldecay17!cff466cb@207.244.102.203 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed
> 1623629661 163632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BeeScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84468&oldid=82929 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10Cat /* Implementations */
> 1623629730 698473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainIf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84469&oldid=83085 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+47) 10/* Implementations */ Cats
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> 1623632640 463474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> I have been in a psych hospital
> 1623632647 302187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> twice, for one night each
> 1623632668 234741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> they remembered me the second time even though it was a few years later
> 1623632690 808462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> not sure how to feel about that
> 1623632705 479515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> BBL, going mushroom hunting
> 1623632710 34245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> peace and love to all
> 1623633049 51685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84470&oldid=84399 5* 03ResU 5* (+1437) 10
> 1623634442 236190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> me too. if i remember right, i count at least 5 former or current #esotericians.
< 1623636092 987893 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
< 1623636092 987943 :ornx!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN #esoteric ornx :ornxka
< 1623636092 987952 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN #esoteric sebbu :sebbu
< 1623636092 987961 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xaxfidxdfqgvwoua JOIN #esoteric user3456 :user3456
< 1623636092 987970 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
< 1623636092 987979 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN #esoteric harha_ :harha
< 1623636092 987988 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:a14f:e2ec:e828:d73 JOIN #esoteric spruit11 :anon
< 1623636092 988017 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rympjwekethlyxau JOIN #esoteric * :org.matrix:none30
< 1623636092 988026 :Guest97824!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN #esoteric * :sam
< 1623636092 988035 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN #esoteric xelxebar :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623636092 988531 :naivesheep_!~naiveshee@dhcp-108-168-36-20.cable.user.start.ca JOIN #esoteric attente :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623636092 988552 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@ec2-13-48-135-94.eu-north-1.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN #esoteric BWBellairs :i am totally bwbellairs
< 1623636092 988563 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN #esoteric atehwa :Panu A. Kalliokoski
< 1623636092 988572 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN #esoteric \oren\ :oren
< 1623636092 988581 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN #esoteric vertrex :vertrex
< 1623636092 988596 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ynwakdbwevvxepqw JOIN #esoteric Discordian[m] :zone.thedisco.matrix:discordian
< 1623636092 988622 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN #esoteric hakatashi :hakatashi
< 1623636092 988632 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN #esoteric izabera :izabera
< 1623636092 988665 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se JOIN #esoteric ski :Stefan Ljungstrand
< 1623636092 988676 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN #esoteric haavard :Håvard Pettersson
< 1623636092 988684 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN #esoteric joast :purple
< 1623636092 988693 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN #esoteric * :bob
< 1623636092 988717 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN #esoteric sftp :sftp
< 1623636093 100174 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN #esoteric * :CLOG (Channel LOGger) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/
< 1623636093 100232 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-085.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esoteric Melvar :melvar
< 1623636093 100245 :hkgit03!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esoteric * :lærling
< 1623636093 100285 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5672d3-28.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN #esoteric aloril :realname
< 1623636093 100298 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN #esoteric HackEso :HackEso
< 1623636093 100310 :interrup-!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN #esoteric * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623636093 100322 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN #esoteric * :Ilari Nieminen
< 1623636093 100373 :stux|RC!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN #esoteric stux|RC-only :stux
< 1623636093 100386 :paul2520_!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com JOIN #esoteric * :paul2520
> 1623636600 168529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> keegan: oh i thought the mushroom hunting trip started earlier!
> 1623636611 501103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> keegan: well, enjoy <3
< 1623639347 358202 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623639508 770282 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623641933 142865 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1623643711 648604 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
< 1623643887 200659 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:a14f:e2ec:e828:d73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1623647036 320534 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623647593 901960 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
> 1623647607 681379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I guess it helps that the channel is so old, and has logs on the searchable internet going back for so long
< 1623647609 159892 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623648538 746779 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623648793 826945 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623648844 338597 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623649056 42039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> should I rewatch One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
> 1623649179 987033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> yay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mental_disorders_in_film
< 1623649603 664859 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ynwakdbwevvxepqw QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1623649604 556251 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1623649604 894296 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1623649605 115864 :hkgit03!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 226713 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5672d3-28.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 226793 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 435665 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 617346 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 728245 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 839219 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649605 952823 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rympjwekethlyxau QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1623649607 41167 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 170772 :naivesheep_!~naiveshee@dhcp-108-168-36-20.cable.user.start.ca QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 334568 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 334612 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 445546 :ornx!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 445619 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-085.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 604718 :interrup-!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 715595 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623649607 715688 :stux|RC!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1623649607 826637 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xaxfidxdfqgvwoua QUIT :*.net *.split
> 1623649705 452263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> oerjan: I can believe 5, but it wouldn't have helped me to know the number, as opposed to specific first person anecdotes by people who also chatted about other things here that mattered more than knowing in abstract how many such people there were
< 1623649724 145481 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623649724 145608 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN #esoteric copumpkin :Gourdmeister
< 1623649724 145624 :ornx!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN #esoteric ornx :ornxka
< 1623649724 145675 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN #esoteric sebbu :sebbu
< 1623649724 145691 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xaxfidxdfqgvwoua JOIN #esoteric user3456 :user3456
< 1623649724 145725 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@fsf/member/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
< 1623649724 145741 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN #esoteric harha_ :harha
< 1623649724 145752 :none30!none30matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rympjwekethlyxau JOIN #esoteric * :org.matrix:none30
< 1623649724 145767 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN #esoteric xelxebar :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623649724 145817 :naivesheep_!~naiveshee@dhcp-108-168-36-20.cable.user.start.ca JOIN #esoteric attente :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623649724 145858 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@ec2-13-48-135-94.eu-north-1.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN #esoteric BWBellairs :i am totally bwbellairs
< 1623649724 145870 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN #esoteric atehwa :Panu A. Kalliokoski
< 1623649724 145910 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN #esoteric \oren\ :oren
< 1623649724 145921 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN #esoteric vertrex :vertrex
< 1623649724 145935 :Discordian[m]!discordi_1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ynwakdbwevvxepqw JOIN #esoteric Discordian[m] :zone.thedisco.matrix:discordian
< 1623649724 258072 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN #esoteric hakatashi :hakatashi
< 1623649724 258130 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN #esoteric izabera :izabera
< 1623649724 258154 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se JOIN #esoteric ski :Stefan Ljungstrand
< 1623649724 258216 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN #esoteric haavard :Håvard Pettersson
< 1623649724 258239 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN #esoteric joast :purple
< 1623649724 258260 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN #esoteric * :bob
< 1623649724 258338 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN #esoteric sftp :sftp
< 1623649724 258360 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN #esoteric * :CLOG (Channel LOGger) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/
< 1623649724 258382 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-085.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esoteric Melvar :melvar
< 1623649724 258445 :hkgit03!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esoteric * :lærling
< 1623649724 258467 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5672d3-28.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN #esoteric aloril :realname
< 1623649724 258488 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN #esoteric HackEso :HackEso
< 1623649724 258509 :interrup-!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN #esoteric * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623649724 258530 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN #esoteric * :Ilari Nieminen
< 1623649724 258585 :stux|RC!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN #esoteric stux|RC-only :stux
< 1623649724 258644 :paul2520_!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com JOIN #esoteric * :paul2520
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< 1623652115 548306 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623653470 285319 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:747f:5601:f224:5330 JOIN #esoteric spruit11 :anon
< 1623653757 185707 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:747f:5601:f224:5330 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1623653911 367008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> All of the rounds of ChaCha20 is reversible except the final round, isn't it?
> 1623654204 75022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> i would think either all of it or none of it is reversible
< 1623654222 226482 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623654237 391337 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623654261 788091 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> oh the rounds are reversible, but the bit where they add the input is not reversible
> 1623654267 605218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> unless you know the input already
< 1623654493 846730 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623654514 72603 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623654889 339730 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:747f:5601:f224:5330 JOIN #esoteric * :anon
< 1623655152 339984 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:747f:5601:f224:5330 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1623655248 53563 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MaowImpl 5*  10New user account
> 1623655715 727740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84471&oldid=84436 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+190) 10MaowImpl
> 1623656052 300844 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> Yes, that is what I meant
< 1623656608 369547 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1623656695 195197 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:747f:5601:f224:5330 JOIN #esoteric * :anon
< 1623657225 541097 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623657497 400590 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623657510 402428 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623658545 5040 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
> 1623663531 304437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoFor14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84472 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+1785) 10Created page with "==DoFor== DoFor is an esoteric programing language.  It is special because it uses the same command for input, output and variables.     ==Commands:== {| class="wikitable" |+..."
> 1623663596 420501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84473&oldid=84444 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+12) 10/* Non-alphabetic */
> 1623663691 158180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84474&oldid=84473 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+12) 10/* D */
< 1623669950 862477 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1623669984 73379 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN #esoteric joast :purple
> 1623674692 93531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03WriteOnly 5*  10New user account
> 1623674706 846934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84475&oldid=84474 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ Remove another alphabetic language from non-alphabetic list
< 1623675014 910762 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623675281 472886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07For The Worthy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84476&oldid=84441 5* 03Kermek 5* (+15) 10
> 1623675379 62144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84477&oldid=84401 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+16) 10Improved the interpreter hyperlink text.
> 1623675383 800992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Kermek14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84478 5* 03Kermek 5* (+84) 10Created page with "==Contributions== Created [https://esolangs.org/wiki/For_The_Worthy For The Worthy]."
< 1623675422 620992 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623675440 576584 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623677793 944349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snek14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84479 5* 03KingJellyfish 5* (+883) 10Created page with "== Snek ==  A language made almost entirely by the following characters: <code>| _ / \</code>. An instruction pointer moves along the "paths" made by these characters and comm..."
> 1623678132 10086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84480&oldid=84479 5* 03KingJellyfish 5* (-513) 10
< 1623678725 140104 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.179 JOIN #esoteric * :Kamila
> 1623679089 125319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84481&oldid=84480 5* 03KingJellyfish 5* (+2661) 10
> 1623679279 457098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84482&oldid=84481 5* 03KingJellyfish 5* (+227) 10
> 1623679310 842852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84483&oldid=84482 5* 03KingJellyfish 5* (-1) 10
> 1623679768 877589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84484&oldid=84471 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+380) 10
< 1623679881 830944 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679881 981868 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679882 93981 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679882 94032 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679882 443907 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679882 443949 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679882 690070 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623679882 800837 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split
> 1623680669 571971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84485&oldid=84477 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+497) 10Improved formatting of code tokens and added a CAT program example.
> 1623680897 208101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1236.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1623681080 643570 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1623681207 895542 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623681381 725641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:WriteOnly14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84486 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+293) 10Created page with "Hi, I am hobby Haskeller.  My dream is run Scheme interpreter on Brainfuck, ETA, Funge, Piet, Subleq and Whitespace.  Work is going slow because I am constantly improving my c..."
< 1623681797 387004 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN #esoteric xelxebar :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623681797 387071 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN #esoteric atehwa :Panu A. Kalliokoski
< 1623681797 387086 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN #esoteric \oren\ :oren
< 1623681797 387101 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN #esoteric vertrex :vertrex
< 1623681797 387114 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN #esoteric izabera :izabera
< 1623681797 387129 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se JOIN #esoteric ski :Stefan Ljungstrand
< 1623681797 387161 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN #esoteric haavard :Håvard Pettersson
< 1623681797 387174 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN #esoteric * :bob
< 1623681798 39529 :metcalf_!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623681960 880655 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1623681961 267795 :metcalf_!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com NICK :metcalf
< 1623682350 717437 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623682366 368400 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623682622 121848 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623682637 935137 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623682945 823238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eek!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84487&oldid=83148 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+372) 10
< 1623682950 664263 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623682964 71713 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623683222 38738 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
> 1623683228 144719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eek!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84488&oldid=84487 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (-3) 10
< 1623683235 240227 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623683528 304324 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623683545 228614 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623683630 345012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PaRappa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84489&oldid=84286 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+607) 10
< 1623684750 637401 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: metcalf
< 1623684767 837458 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
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< 1623685035 756390 :metcalf!~metcalf@host86-152-40-97.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623685455 594723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84490&oldid=81259 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+345) 10added my self-interpreter
> 1623686215 490456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84491&oldid=84453 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+204) 10/* Expressions */ Parenthesis!
> 1623687291 951699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:WriteOnly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84492&oldid=84486 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+94) 10
> 1623687350 494540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:WriteOnly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84493&oldid=84492 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+118) 10
> 1623687370 301271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ETA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84494&oldid=30446 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+160) 10
> 1623687428 189020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84495&oldid=84491 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+341) 10/* Examples */ Factorial!
> 1623687439 958302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84496&oldid=84495 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+1) 10
> 1623687579 754778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Whitespace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84497&oldid=84173 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+180) 10
> 1623687603 510830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ETA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84498&oldid=84494 5* 03WriteOnly 5* (+6) 10
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> 1623691703 693370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> hello esolangers
> 1623692092 67583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> 
ACTION meows

> 1623692425 761720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> :3
> 1623693638 291781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84499&oldid=84457 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+813) 10Free Hero Mesh preprocessor
> 1623694828 77620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<APic> 😸
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< 1623699877 436069 :LKoen!~LKoen@132.161.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1623701224 141383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84500&oldid=84460 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (-97) 10change infinite counter to slightly smaller version
> 1623701657 530205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84501&oldid=84500 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (-8) 10minify infinite counter slightly more
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> 1623703918 876431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Fox 5*  10New user account
> 1623704600 569235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84502&oldid=84484 5* 03Fox 5* (+92) 10
> 1623705455 986762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ItOi14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84503 5* 03Grs 5* (+982) 10Created page with "ItOi or Input to Output instantly is a joke esoteric programming language by ~~~ that only contains two command. == Command == The only command is: {| class="wikitable" |+ Com..."
> 1623705536 409282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ItOi14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84504&oldid=84503 5* 03Grs 5* (+4) 10/* Command */
> 1623705868 612152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RandBow14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84505 5* 03Fox 5* (+93) 10Created page with "'''RandBow''' is a visual esoteric programing language. Its like a mix of brainfuck and piet."
> 1623705922 618694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RandBow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84506&oldid=84505 5* 03Fox 5* (+10) 10
> 1623705949 252453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Xxmarijnw 5*  10New user account
< 1623706066 274117 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN #esoteric deltaepsilon23 :delta23__
> 1623706176 113382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RandBow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84507&oldid=84506 5* 03Fox 5* (+894) 10
> 1623706331 808483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RandBow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84508&oldid=84507 5* 03Fox 5* (+9) 10
> 1623706407 611412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84509&oldid=84220 5* 03Grs 5* (+82) 10/* General languages */ ItOi by Grs
> 1623706407 775434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84510&oldid=84502 5* 03Xxmarijnw 5* (+188) 10/* Introductions */
> 1623706422 379542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pinocchio14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84511&oldid=38260 5* 03Xxmarijnw 5* (+157) 10Cleanup and fix example
> 1623706451 56560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xxmarijnw14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84512 5* 03Xxmarijnw 5* (+0) 10Created blank page
> 1623706458 270281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xxmarijnw14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84513&oldid=84512 5* 03Xxmarijnw 5* (+23) 10
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> 1623707017 574152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RandBow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84514&oldid=84508 5* 03Fox 5* (+255) 10
> 1623708588 457176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dylanrafael05 5*  10New user account
> 1623708745 962221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84515&oldid=84510 5* 03Dylanrafael05 5* (+174) 10/* Introductions */
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> 1623712253 944565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Duocentehexaquinquagesimal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84516&oldid=83074 5* 03Makonede 5* (-9) 10
> 1623712359 741330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84517 5* 03Makonede 5* (+22203) 10Created page with "''Not to be confused with [[256]].''  '''Py256''' is a golfing language by [[User:Makonede]]. It uses Base-256 compression to encode long hexadecimal numbers representing prog..."
> 1623712447 737046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84518&oldid=84475 5* 03Makonede 5* (+12) 10
> 1623712472 651850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Makonede14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84519&oldid=82172 5* 03Makonede 5* (+11) 10
> 1623712516 27156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> https://pastebin.com/dDrduun1
> 1623712532 968046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> I made a closure thingy in C
> 1623712541 510586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> This time it works
> 1623712697 370947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> tldr it copies entire page that the addF function is on, replaces some data to enclose the argumnet, and returns the copied + modified function
> 1623712736 234728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> That isn't going to be portable, I think
> 1623712962 294309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> i did a closure thing in c ages ago, though it is _profoundly_ hacky
> 1623712988 99477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> https://github.com/pikhq/clambda-demo there we are
> 1623713012 826314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> (portable, but extremely GCC-specific)
> 1623713183 191758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I use some GNU extensions in C programming, although there are other compilers that support some of these extensions too
> 1623713510 723004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84520&oldid=84517 5* 03Makonede 5* (+0) 10
> 1623713628 153718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> i'm not sure what would be a nice API in general
> 1623713653 125077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> tbh i've stopped trying to be clever in c; i've come to the conclusion that c is best served by writing _very_ dumb and obviously-correct code
> 1623714653 651402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> well ideally, i'd like it to be such that the returned function looks like any other function pointer to a funtion with that signature
> 1623714730 441135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> there would be two ways of doing that: have every function take a closure pointer, perhaps in a dedicated register in the ABI
> 1623714770 237377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> or, alternatively, the function pointer itself would somehow
> 1623714835 275611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> ooh
> 1623714840 777685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> that is cool
> 1623715097 461260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84521&oldid=84520 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10Cat, template
> 1623715171 851343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84522&oldid=84045 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10Distinguish
> 1623715517 467841 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pinocchio14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84523&oldid=84511 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10Cats, misc
> 1623716334 560403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RandBow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84524&oldid=84514 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+91) 10/* Rules */ Cats,
> 1623717645 930892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> I just realized that most kids from the smartphone generation might not understand what "I will not buy this record, it is scratched." means
> 1623717948 756752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> nah, there's a bit of a resurgence now
> 1623717953 223798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> FuckAndrewLee++
> 1623717980 346554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FuckAndrewLee> so we fully over here now, or what.
> 1623717987 580931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> b_jonas: records are no longer a mainstream standard medium but they've taken on a bit of a second life as a collector's format
> 1623717996 353138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FuckAndrewLee> the nick db and the channel db got wiped.
> 1623718016 29290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FuckAndrewLee> by herr lee.
> 1623718163 125749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> . o O ( i will not buy this smartphone, it is scratched )
> 1623718183 449080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> what
> 1623718207 324610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> yeah it's weird
> 1623718269 383485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> b_jonas: What pikhq said. They know what "a record" is, but they think that they make you look old or like a hipster. (I have niblings who have explained my uncoolness.)
> 1623718353 509872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> What someone told me is that phonograph records are good quality only the first time they are played
> 1623718376 463790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> FuckAndrewLee: sheesh. on the bright side maybe nakilon will finally admit we were right :P
> 1623718456 795682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> about 10% hth
> 1623718464 56314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> idk i think nakilon might be rasengan
> 1623718551 978441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FuckAndrewLee> oerjan: hahahahaha.
> 1623718557 812959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FuckAndrewLee> fair.
> 1623718740 343846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> I listen to most of my music on low-bitrate mp3s
> 1623718745 392899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> pikhq: i seriously doubt lee is into esolang stuff
> 1623718851 72904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b_jonas> Corbin, pikhq: do they know about CDs and DVDs?
> 1623718872 266068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> some people think 32k is too low tho
> 1623718896 395302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84525&oldid=84521 5* 03Makonede 5* (-229) 10
> 1623718913 414496 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> b_jonas: depends on the kids' age but probably. they're no longer current but they're not _that_ far removed from currency
> 1623718933 365964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> just like a typical kid circa 2000 would still know about vhs even though it was an obsolete format then
> 1623718962 111373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> The advantage of phonograph record is the simplicity of the format; it is a groovy format, rather than a digital one, and you might be able to play even if the power out (if you have one that doesn't need the power). Other than that, it isn't really the advantage generally
> 1623719018 18536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> but I did tests, and was unable to hear any difference between 128kb/s and the same songs at 32kb/s
> 1623719047 695005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> b_jonas: Oh yeah. They're experts on the difference between different disc formats. Do you remember when you learned that MIDI, WAV, and AVI were all different? Same sort of story.
> 1623719100 910299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> oren: you may want to see an audiologist, i think you have severe hearing loss
> 1623719118 703249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> (this is like claiming you can't see the difference between 32bpp and 2bpp)
> 1623719410 248045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84526&oldid=84525 5* 03Makonede 5* (+7) 10
< 1623719830 690273 :V!~v@anomalous.eu QUIT :Quit: We're here. We're queer. Connection reset by peer
> 1623720055 964884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> have you tested it yourself?
> 1623720088 974038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> yes?
> 1623720125 970245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> ffmpeg -i some.mp3 -b:a 32k some_out.mp3
> 1623720184 678686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> 32kbps mp3 isn't merely "i can tell the difference" low it's "this sounds like hold music on a phone call" low
> 1623720246 270212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> hmm... maybe specific characteristics of the music i'm testing with
> 1623720324 466297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> oh duh, these are youtube rips, the original probably was already low-bitrate
> 1623720382 462931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> yeah, by way of comparison around 42kbps is considered acceptable for _speech_ encoding with mp3
> 1623720437 505394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> . o O ( oren gets all his music from phone calls holding )
> 1623720573 271113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> okay... did u know that VLC doesn't show the actual bitrate of an mp3, just the bitrate it *says* it has?
> 1623720641 862202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> which means, that if something is transcoded to a low-quality youtube and back to 128kb/s
> 1623720887 123430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> shocking
> 1623720915 758182 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> however, one of these mp3's *says* in vlc 8kb/s
> 1623721057 198932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> https://imgur.com/2x60tVI
> 1623721095 283217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> i downloaded it sometime prior to 2009
> 1623721146 832236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> i guarantee you'd know if it actually was though
> 1623721229 913684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> based on the file size it's 24 kb/s
> 1623721245 125536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> or 3 kilobytes per second
> 1623721463 428150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oren> that at least explains why transcoding to 32 kb/s makes no difference for a lot of these... their actual qulity is already very low
> 1623722516 164261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MaowImpl14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84527 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+261) 10My page :)
> 1623722567 743581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03MaowImpl 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:MaowImpl July2020.png10]]": MaowImpl's profile picture as of July 2020.
> 1623722637 397926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MaowImpl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84529&oldid=84527 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+44) 10
> 1623722786 105966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MaowImpl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84530&oldid=84529 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+102) 10
> 1623722985 226750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MaowImpl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84531&oldid=84530 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (-16) 10
> 1623723994 607502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84532&oldid=84526 5* 03Makonede 5* (+109) 10
> 1623724491 95110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84533&oldid=84532 5* 03Makonede 5* (+101) 10
> 1623726994 520339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FurASM14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84534 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+3103) 10an alright page, hope it's good enough for the wonderful language of FurASM, our wonderful god
> 1623727011 731210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03MaowImpl 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:FurASM Logo.png10]]"
> 1623727066 469587 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84536&oldid=84533 5* 03Makonede 5* (+26) 10
> 1623727125 638198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FurASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84537&oldid=84534 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+6) 10fixed image size
> 1623727205 962567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84538&oldid=84509 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+118) 10FurASM
> 1623727210 581959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84539&oldid=84536 5* 03Makonede 5* (+12) 10
> 1623735227 435417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Finites at Fredy's14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84540&oldid=83102 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+22) 10Thematic cat
> 1623736826 776977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Finites at Fredy's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84541&oldid=84540 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+549) 10OPENQASM 2.0 conversion
> 1623742809 321221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> at first you were saying it's bad that he has our "personal data" while being so much diletant in subject of its protection that you create the same account on another network thinking that it would improve anything, lol, using the same nicknames and channels
> 1623742837 419109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> now when the data is purged you are saying "oh no, it's bad that they now DON'T have the data", lol
> 1623742883 590304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and who should you blame in sabotaging and instability other than yourself being supporting on the network ruining
> 1623742966 96779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> you fucked up your own home
> 1623742976 408145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> shitted and then abandoned it
> 1623743009 471490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> tomorrow network owners will say they don't like another leader and you'll repeat it after them again
> 1623743901 218913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Good mornign!
> 1623744161 963277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I've decided that I think that SQL is kind of neat
> 1623744763 238468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> dear people and ops.  please confirm the transition from freenode to libera
> 1623744843 120570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> spruit11: wiki confirms it: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal
> 1623744905 657269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> is b_jonas moving too?
> 1623744945 258325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> ah,  well.  no need to answer.  I'll just see what happens the next week.
> 1623744965 226771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> https://isfreenodedeadyet.com
> 1623745081 98703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> looks like it's a redirect since I ended up here
> 1623745160 705504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i'm curious about how many channels are going to re-register in general
> 1623746111 326817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84542&oldid=84496 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy 5* (+33) 10/* See also */
< 1623746226 331115 :esowiki!~esowiki@freenode-gk1kvj.3ie8.emss.6ed9oe.IP JOIN #esoteric * :esowiki
< 1623746252 845838 :sparr!~sparr@freenode-pk2.n6u.k20oau.IP JOIN #esoteric * :sparr
< 1623746373 328819 :atehwa!atehwa@freenode-ora.qn8.o2qt6g.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Panu A. Kalliokoski
< 1623746396 227149 :catern!~sbaugh@freenode-6osc36.07ka.s27f.cqtb3f.IP JOIN #esoteric * :sbaugh
> 1623746409 418853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> [ #'j eval services have been restored, btw'
> 1623746410 60162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<j-bot> FireFly: 39
> 1623746433 642381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I figured you probably want it in here since it was in #esoteric
> 1623746524 216718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I think I crashed it by private messaging it
> 1623746527 881010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> Sorry :(
> 1623746909 41788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
> 1623747179 695881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoFor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84543&oldid=84472 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+795) 10
> 1623747237 189047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> fungot, what do you think about relational algebras?
> 1623747237 378552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> Taneb: 4 legs to a table doesn't even seem to be
< 1623747240 286558 :dionys!dionys@freenode-2ai.0th.u923ui.IP JOIN #esoteric * :dionys
< 1623747240 436581 :dionys!dionys@freenode-2ai.0th.u923ui.IP QUIT :OperServ (Session limit exceeded)
> 1623747312 952897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoFor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84544&oldid=84543 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+0) 10/* calling a function: */
< 1623747714 408295 :spruit11!~quassel@freenode-nenft5.tmp7.qlph.v67l0v.IP QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.
< 1623748388 410015 :ski!~ski@freenode-v9d.fs3.n7du5h.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Stefan Ljungstrand
> 1623748475 185691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> ^ignore
> 1623748475 308988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fungot> ^(HackEso|lambdabot|metasepia|idris-bot|blsqbot|j-bot|esolangs|velik|perlbot)!
> 1623748489 684995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Looks like I did keep j-bot on the list.
> 1623749005 186663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Also, I'm still register over on the other side, so either they ported over accounts after all, or I'm still in some old chunk of the network after the server I was on disconnected.
< 1623749292 795168 :izabera!~izabera@freenode-73h.th3.9vgmmp.IP JOIN #esoteric * :izabera
> 1623749376 588088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Mm. It didn't have a MOTD on the server, so I sort of assumed it had to be new.
> 1623749550 458525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, guess so. And to be fair, it did have *a* MOTD:
> 1623749552 345209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> "rinnegan.freenode.net Message of the Day - This is charybdis MOTD you might replace it, but if not your friends will laugh at you."
> 1623749600 414269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's s little like the "Apache is installed" page you get sometimes.
> 1623750151 629652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> oren: I wonder if you could use a single thread-specific variable to pass the closure upvalue, and then you could have the closure wrappers be copies of the same short function regardless the prototype of the wrapped function, you implement the wrapper directly in assembly and only substitute the upvalue constant and the function address, as then
> 1623750152 128922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> this wrapper won't need to access the stack or saved/parameter registers and just jumps directly to the wrapped function after saving the value to the thread-specific variable.
> 1623750231 979635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> it's not the most efficient way to do this, but then if you wanted something efficient, you wouldn't use this kind of closure, only saner interfaces that pass around the upvalue together with the function pointer\
> 1623750565 268272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> int-e, spruit11: I'm not connecting to freenode anymore, though I might try to connect in the future if I want to track down out where some channel moved or something like that
> 1623750602 898246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> [ 7*7
> 1623750603 224594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<j-bot> wib_jonas: 49
> 1623750610 123464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> FireFly: nice
> 1623750668 140052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> [ i.10
> 1623750668 443672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<j-bot> Taneb: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
> 1623750684 532520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> (that's what I PM'd j-bot earlier just before it quit and rejoined)
> 1623750733 528333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> huh weird
> 1623750743 161295 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I'll check the logs later
> 1623750852 31218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> in `ircgot': error from irc client: :tungsten.libera.chat 486 j-bot Taneb :You must log
> 1623750853 714918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> in with services to message this user (RuntimeError)
> 1623750856 30788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> oh lol
> 1623750941 603494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> I should figure out giving it an account later, but also not entirely sure that should cause it to crash
< 1623751068 198461 :vertrex!~vertrex@freenode-sed.r5u.3okr8j.IP JOIN #esoteric * :vertrex
> 1623751157 171668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> FireFly: because it's an error code that the code doesn't recognize. you should probably ignore that error so that if someone has that user mode flag set and you can't message them, it doesn't crash.
> 1623751161 757849 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> the numeric error code that is
> 1623751170 418644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> jevalbot dies on unknown numeric error codes
> 1623751176 826404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> j-bot source:
> 1623751176 895211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<j-bot> wib_jonas, jevalbot source is https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot (originally http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/jevalbot.tgz)
> 1623751213 534370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> FireFly: ignore it here: https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot/blob/master/jeval.rb#L1064
> 1623751243 845858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> or perhaps at https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot/blob/master/jeval.rb#L1070 instead\
> 1623751595 115636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> yah,  all channel and people I more or less care about seemed to have moved so I tried to help out a bit and then deleted the network.
> 1623751612 295871 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> we moved. no point looking back
> 1623751622 873569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> FireFly: I mean the user modes +R and +G in the target user
> 1623751701 314969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> on that note, if you're a channel op or wiki admin and want to get channel rights to the OFTC channels #esolangs (and #esoteric ) which is our escape route, contact b_jonas
< 1623752568 99157 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@freenode-qta.chu.1ues71.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Ron
> 1623753631 371911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<FireFly> wib_jonas: yeah, I probably should, I'll look at that later
> 1623754633 915274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FurASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84545&oldid=84537 5* 03MaowImpl 5* (+22) 10
< 1623754827 263054 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@freenode-qta.chu.1ues71.IP QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1623756006 433053 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623756022 308953 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
> 1623756049 631910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Heh, out of curiosity went to check the raw logs as to what server the esowiki bot had connected to this morning, since I don't see it myself. Looks like it's connected to something that calls itself "lol.test.freenode.net".
> 1623757572 13277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> serious business
> 1623759835 201995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Furcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84546&oldid=77955 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+75) 10/* Interpreters */ See also
< 1623761005 889275 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623762533 404280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84547&oldid=84542 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+4) 10Since it was actually inspired by Airline food, I decided to put that straight in the first paragraph instead
> 1623763305 538983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> ``` coins # some people pointed out that "libera" sounds like a name for a cryptocurrency, so just want to check if there's any easter egg here
> 1623763308 540756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEso> ​13antalcoin 04codcoin 07waitcoin 08vilcoin 09nandcoin 02alerisorcoin 06minedcoin 13hq9+coin 04attecoin 07remocoin 08iirgcoin 09simumcoin 02ouercoin 06migurehecoin 13adjcoin 04webcoin 07meycoin 08tectcoin 09carintycoin 02firmacoin
> 1623763323 156613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wib_jonas> why does this rainbow?
< 1623765431 762668 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623765443 862027 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623766003 458074 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623766015 820497 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623766148 525797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Grs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84548&oldid=84011 5* 03Grs 5* (+26) 10
< 1623769331 763544 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623769343 926023 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623769619 253763 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623769631 800016 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623769931 729035 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623769943 808283 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623770204 327513 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623770216 929441 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623770393 333585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode1> nakilon: so why don't you fucking leave here you absolute blind fuck.
> 1623771395 122429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84549&oldid=84346 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+69) 10
< 1623771694 165700 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP JOIN #esoteric * :realname
> 1623771747 965285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> int-e: and you think the person I was resonding to was a breath of fresh air?
> 1623771757 85468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> I agree that language is inappropriate. Let's ban language.
> 1623771783 86188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> we'll all communicate in blinks.
< 1623772211 467759 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1623772789 750474 :atehwa!atehwa@freenode-ora.qn8.o2qt6g.IP QUIT :Connection closed
> 1623773081 541619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forwards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84550&oldid=84245 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+149) 10/* Overview */ added list unpacking
> 1623773452 520778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84551&oldid=84549 5* 03Toxinite 5* (+205) 10
< 1623773724 367927 :esowiki!~esowiki@freenode-gk1kvj.3ie8.emss.6ed9oe.IP JOIN #esoteric * :esowiki
< 1623774131 745121 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623774143 874450 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623774403 827476 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623774416 185617 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623775448 578279 :LKoen!~LKoen@freenode-2h8.fsb.89ikds.IP JOIN #esoteric * :LKoen
> 1623776621 61647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84552&oldid=84539 5* 03Makonede 5* (+5) 10
> 1623776856 287057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84553&oldid=84552 5* 03Makonede 5* (-1) 10
> 1623776880 627213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Py25614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84554&oldid=84553 5* 03Makonede 5* (+1) 10
> 1623778392 651416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84555 5* 03ResU 5* (+998) 10Created page with "(Note: The title of this page was made to be a palindrome. There is no Esolang:Klat gnalosE.) Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE was created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. The commands are..."
> 1623778970 911071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84556&oldid=84555 5* 03ResU 5* (-15) 10/* a=b */
> 1623779016 15597 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84557&oldid=84556 5* 03ResU 5* (-7) 10/* < on tape */
> 1623779237 441618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84558&oldid=84557 5* 03ResU 5* (-17) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1623779386 658752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84559&oldid=84558 5* 03ResU 5* (+17) 10/* Truth machine */
> 1623779439 925230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84560&oldid=84559 5* 03ResU 5* (+36) 10/* Truth machine */
> 1623779723 117764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84561&oldid=84368 5* 03ResU 5* (+49) 10/* My esolangs: */
> 1623779764 209106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ResU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84562&oldid=84561 5* 03ResU 5* (+0) 10/* My esolangs: */
> 1623780191 451485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoibl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84563&oldid=84551 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+307) 10Cats/format and clarification (please fix if wrong)
< 1623780560 237141 :haavard!root@freenode-j01.rt7.epkjbs.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Håvard Pettersson
> 1623781519 509491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03AceKiron 5*  10New user account
> 1623781743 866505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84564&oldid=84515 5* 03AceKiron 5* (+231) 10
> 1623782029 984182 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:AceKiron14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84565 5* 03AceKiron 5* (+107) 10Created page with "15 year/old programmer who made School, an [[esoteric programming language]] soon to be added to this wiki."
> 1623783612 325656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_> Where does the bridge go? Classic Freenode or new Freenode?
> 1623784715 111813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It goes to new right now.
> 1623784726 336064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Judging from the fact that I ended up in classic, and I don't see it.
> 1623784751 914628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Plus the server it connected to says it's InspIRCd-3, which AIUI is what they switched over to.
> 1623784841 992148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I'm pretty puzzled by the continued existence of classic. I got disconnected at around 10am local time, but then (even though I've got it configured as chat.freenode.net, not any specific server) landed on one of the classic servers anyway. And then it's just continued to work. I'd've imagined they'd just terminate all of the old ones.
< 1623784853 852134 :melanophore!~noone@freenode-kvv.sn6.k7g3ur.IP JOIN #esoteric * :noone
> 1623784857 478554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 18:19:53 <imode1> nakilon: so why don't you fucking leave here you absolute blind fuck.
< 1623784861 231210 :melanophore!~noone@freenode-kvv.sn6.k7g3ur.IP PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this thing on?
> 1623784869 880514 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> lmao
< 1623784881 834869 :melanophore!~noone@freenode-kvv.sn6.k7g3ur.IP PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is newleenode)
< 1623784884 94071 :melanophore!~noone@freenode-kvv.sn6.k7g3ur.IP QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1623784886 895963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> melanophore: In some sense, yes.
> 1623784892 345166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> fizzie: there has been at least two freenode classics, fwiw. One with services, one without
> 1623784918 625211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> your words show you to be the smellest piece of shit I've seen for last few months
> 1623784930 415282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> nakilon: shut the fuck up you vile troll.
> 1623784933 22387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> nice achievent, someone might proud
> 1623784935 624565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> back on ignore you go.
> 1623784942 247656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, I'm in one where I got authenticated, in case that means something. But I imagine it won't be around *much* longer.
> 1623785027 481835 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e new purpose for you?
> 1623785090 855894 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> lol
> 1623785100 477025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I "insult everyone in sight?"
> 1623785110 699879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> wash your mouthes kids, before you talk
> 1623785119 351669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Since I'm not planning to register the channel in the new network, I'll probably disable the bridge as well.
> 1623785122 106715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> int-e: it's fruitless, someone should just ban him already.
> 1623785136 946905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> cry more
> 1623785140 173468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> his intent is to troll. if he disagreed, he'd stay on freenode and leave everybody alone.
> 1623785156 205549 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> that hellhole is certainly welcoming to small-minded freaks.
> 1623785184 899210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> those are facts
> 1623785216 941761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> somehow you even feel the need to continue shitting even here
> 1623785272 972097 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I love the freaks that just jump on to Libera to insult people. yeah, that's why you're not and never will be welcome.
> 1623785289 189165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> it's an excuse to jump out of the woodwork and yell at people you don't like.
> 1623785305 794953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> go back to your termite-ridden shithole.
> 1623785316 312026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I can't care less of where are switched too, which network, but what is obvious here is that the freenode did nothing bad to this channel while you definitely pollute it
> 1623785356 946725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> saw that comin'.
> 1623785576 702721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> FWIW I suspect we should probably just drop the whole topic, and I imagine it'll eventually stop coming up naturally. nakilon does talk a lot about actual esolangs stuff, unlike few *actual* trolls we've had over the years. (Not to say I don't think the way they're commenting isn't deliberately insulting.)
> 1623785610 729744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> poisoned minds typically regurgitate poison.
> 1623785625 910621 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Personally I'm kind of more disturbed by the IRCCloud ban than the database wipe. Though I imagine there's some backstory behind there.
> 1623785665 36205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> yeah it's not like we antagonized him.
> 1623785675 49672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I even unignored him, thinking he cooled off.
> 1623785689 151056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> int-e: meh, I wasn't participating here in that fashion.
> 1623785721 614755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think as a reaction, mostly, though I certainly haven't fully logread.
> 1623785726 398543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> 01:52 <oerjan> [..] on the bright side maybe nakilon will finally admit we were right :P
> 1623785736 454000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> That's the sort of name-dropping I imagine most people would say *something* to.
> 1623785744 494673 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> true. I do respond when highlighted.
> 1623785795 699868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> I don’t like the tone too
> 1623785830 246889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, fair; the topic *is* kind of relevant, since that's where we were, and now we're here.
> 1623785904 830858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> (offtopic: there was a discussion of free variables on ##math today yay)
< 1623785908 577943 :ornx!~ornxka@freenode-d6t.fcg.rq4j3p.IP JOIN #esoteric * :ornxka
< 1623785943 865174 :sebbu!~sebbu@freenode-kfo851.qf32.95jc.8rtqt8.IP JOIN #esoteric * :sebbu
> 1623785947 876708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> the problem is you're going to get a larger set of "lee sympathizers" because 1. people enjoy being contrarians/trolling, 2. people haven't kept up with the insanity, but I don't think there's many people who will end up sympathizers after that, or 3. people actually enjoy the culture that lee is trying to bring in, which is some 4chan shit considering l0de is now staff.
> 1623785986 38747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> my point is.. the useful, constructive conversation moved and left a vacuum for a lot of horrible conversation.
> 1623785999 193837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> probably for the time being, yes.
> 1623786013 583934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> if you want it you can go to ##freenode on this network, which will let you shitpost until your eyes bleed.
> 1623786129 423916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, before we stop talking about it completely, what's the consensus on the bridge and logs.esolangs.org, should I just call it a day and drop the new-freenode 'esowiki' bot? The nickname is now unregistered, the channel is unregistered, and even before all this latest I don't think there were more than one or two actual bridged conversations...
> 1623786176 302247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> same.
< 1623786192 303967 :clog!~nef@freenode-u8s.ofv.f5muk5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :CLOG (Channel LOGger) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/
> 1623786194 631092 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> it'd be one thing if there was a presence on the network, but.. everybody is here now.
> 1623786268 301367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Heh, I was going to say "OTOH, there's still X users on the old-freenode #esoteric who might land in there", but looks like I *finally* got disconnected from there.
> 1623786354 295006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> 22:33:58 <int-e> Yes, we should. But *nakilon* kept bringing up this topic. -- this is a lie; I opened chat in the morning and the only talk here was you guys about what happened to freenode services, I left my opinion and went to the city, and when I came back I read about myself "you fucking leave here you absolute blind fuck" and now even
> 1623786354 423488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "small-minded freaks -- is it how the "22:34:25 <imode> yeah it's not like we antagonized him." look like or rather "you're not and never will be welcome."? and btw how doesn't  "22:29:16 <imode> saw that comin'"  look like a "intent is to troll."? must be my weak English understanding, right? lol -- it's actually you who bring the news about
> 1623786354 502893 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> rasengan again and again, I don't even follow, just read randomly onlyfrom this channel, you are the source -- I can'r "drop the topic" because you ARE purposefully create a flame here and your behaviour and personal insults  on me are placing absolutely far away from being considered any minimally worth to be respected random internet stranger
> 1623786396 729229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I'm being insulted and falsely accused
> 1623786439 478181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Hmm, my bouncer's not managing to connect to the new thing. "tls_handshake: handshake failed: unexpected EOF"
> 1623786491 988495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> serioudly go get a room with imode
> 1623786509 916561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's not his first and not even second try to create a flame about me
> 1623786632 410049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I wouldn't be surprised if SSL is just like, not enabled on the new infra.
> 1623786634 445205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> x)
> 1623786654 121078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> "let's close down the old server and replace them with untested shit"
> 1623786665 791643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> par for the course
> 1623786680 356714 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Maybe it doesn't like my client certificate, now that it's unregistered. Though that sounds unlikely too.
> 1623786707 388396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Ten minutes earlier it was failing with "server does not support sasl" instead.
> 1623786725 772894 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> But in the interests of fairness, this bouncer (pounce) is probably the most opinionated client there is.
> 1623786735 554500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> he's still going lmao.
> 1623786761 527199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> i don't care about rasengar or whoever, it's your drama
> 1623786774 264093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> that you are so mad about someone to not agree iwth you about
> 1623786822 168112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> "someone to not agree with you about" is not what you do
> 1623786835 800108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> you don't disagree, you insult people for making choices
> 1623786894 349244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> int-e: Oh, right, good point. Though in a perfect world the message for that would not be "does not support sasl" but something else.
> 1623786989 601730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> heh.
> 1623787003 40265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I don't think you'll find dissenting opinions in this channel.
> 1623787013 292639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Well, good excuse to see how frustrated I get trying to reconfigure things on a phone.
> 1623787091 956180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it's like if I was an admin at some company and then I disliked the CEO and left, leaving servers/software to fall apart and then say "ahaha, see? it's all broken because of you"
> 1623787136 196186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> uhm, you do realize they could have just not changed the server software?
> 1623787165 733977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> they _actively_ switched to a software which configuration they obviously did not test very well
> 1623787180 255029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> why are you bothering to pay attention to an obvious bait.
> 1623787190 906830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> int-e ask those who can't drop it, not me
> 1623787191 701063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spruit11> this conversation is starting to bother me
> 1623787241 879393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> I was just respoinding to Sgeo
> 1623787318 16111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> nakilon: Maybe modify your feelings?
> 1623787338 756194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> nakilon: i mean, if a company can be taken down by a single sysadmin leaving, it is in fact the ceo's fault when the sysadmin leaves and it all breaks. that's how "being in charge" works
> 1623787362 559948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> that's a well-known risk of poor management decisions that effective leaders try to mitigate
> 1623787384 635470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> tho i should probably drop the subject
> 1623787392 791063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> i don't think there's anything productive to be said here
> 1623787394 880795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> here not just one sysdaimn has left though but a half or most of staff AFAIK
> 1623787417 336242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> minecraft time
> 1623787418 542476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> even so
> 1623787427 660726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> and people are keeping judging what happends without any real knowledge
> 1623787495 39485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "23:03:05 <Sgeo> They took over channels en mass based on topic" -- this is a lie people keep repeating purposefully not saying that there was an apology and a message that that was a script error
> 1623787512 650499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> nakilon: all the staff said upfront that they will leave if andrew acts like he did. he acted so nontheless. it's his fault.
> 1623787514 619941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> oh I read you further, sry
> 1623787520 661999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> also, afaik _all_ the staff left
> 1623787547 854413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> Also also, the staff were volunteers, not full-time employees.
> 1623787574 313391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "they will leave if andrew acts like" he acted AFTER that? that makes no sense
> 1623787575 637864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> a script error?
> 1623787578 123127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> nakilon: But seriously, why don't you just...stop caring so much about it?
> 1623787580 625517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> it did happen
> 1623787590 23018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> even if they claim there was a script error, it still happened
> 1623787597 915484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> nakilon: you do know what "upfront" means?
> 1623787605 358895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> it's not correct to say that it didn't happen just because they apologized for it afterwards
> 1623787642 930182 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> it was a malfunction of a network caused by their act of leaving and leaving it falling apart
> 1623787644 208823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> riv: a script "error" they didn't test well enough, server switches to ircds they didn't test well enough ...
> 1623787655 580737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Corbin> pikhq: FWIW I think that noting that this conversation is unproductive is a positive contribution.
> 1623787676 574541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> it was a a malfunction that all staffers told him upfront, yet he chose to go that path
> 1623787685 166595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sknebel> can you please have this discussion in some off-topic channel and not here?
> 1623787877 602133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> int-e: I don't know, maybe my reconnects (after the SASL failures) tripped a filter of some sort, I'm getting a flat disconnect for "openssl s_client -connect ..." as well on the machine I run IRC on, but not at home. Maybe that's a sign to just give it up.
< 1623788523 236926 :orbitaldecay!~bob@freenode-31l.qce.ka63sr.IP JOIN #esoteric * :bob
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< 1623788570 284399 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@freenode-uac.l8t.mde629.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Gourdmeister
< 1623788599 846107 :Noisytoot_!noisytoot@freenode-qta.chu.1ues71.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Ron
< 1623788640 381856 :stux|RC-only!stux2@freenode-8h7.mdj.tbf8b8.IP JOIN #esoteric * :stux
< 1623788687 821950 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@freenode-qcn.fu6.qlhleq.IP JOIN #esoteric * :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1623788875 509864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> new metroid game looks cool
> 1623789010 932856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Why did I just get this idea that there was a game where you had like a peripheral you programmed in Befunge? A puzzle game, or maybe an adventure one... Did I just have a weird dream or something?
< 1623789030 169097 :paul2520_!~paul2520@freenode-crf.dqi.a263fo.IP JOIN #esoteric * :paul2520
> 1623789078 321762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> spacechem?
> 1623789086 583364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> riv: YESSSSS.
> 1623789096 609380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> I did my waiting. 20 years of it.
< 1623789117 333190 :Noisytoot_!noisytoot@freenode-qta.chu.1ues71.IP QUIT :Connection closed
< 1623789170 814933 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@freenode/user/Noisytoot JOIN #esoteric Noisytoot :Ron
> 1623789180 919755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Not SpaceChem, this was like a smartwatch or something that you wrote little programs for, and it wasn't the main game mechanic, just a little side thing.
> 1623789197 678275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think it probably doesn't exist and I just made it up.
> 1623789233 331702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i so wish there were interesting smartwatch games
> 1623789251 273923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> 20 years :D
> 1623789260 163447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> "programming peripheral" only associate with Shenzhen for me
> 1623789285 770977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> fizzie: that sounds like a neat idea for something like cogmind.
> 1623789288 692664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> there is a befunge like programming game on steam, but its not liek what you're describing
> 1623789304 471378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> is there a web server extension for befunge? you could make a website in befunge about ebfunge
> 1623789347 523592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Programming_games are all games where the programming is the main "gameplay" element, not games of other genres with a programming aspect to them.
> 1623789372 842391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think there was an Apache module for Befunge?
> 1623789445 948025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> I like the systems in modded minecraft
> 1623789454 844154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Not having much luck on the Googles though, so maybe I'm mixing it up with the Brainfuck one.
> 1623789456 318737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> you have 3 types of tubes: power, items, fluids 
> 1623789460 390958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> https://www.reddit.com/r/programminggames/
> 1623789461 896660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> and blocks have 6 sides
> 1623789469 35533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> you can do a lot with that
> 1623789503 329830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Yeah, http://modbf.sourceforge.net/ is a thing but mod_bef doesn't seem to be.
> 1623789511 762930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> does LambdaMOO count as a programming game?
> 1623789666 627461 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> fizzie: that game does sound familiar for some reason
< 1623789739 392642 :haavard!root@freenode-j01.rt7.epkjbs.IP QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1
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< 1623789863 506978 :Noisytoot!noisytoot@freenode/user/Noisytoot NICK :noisytoot[x]
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> 1623789934 823148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<imode> now _that's_ some lore I can ge behind.
< 1623790000 176793 :harha_!~harha@freenode-480.42p.ov3kfc.IP JOIN #esoteric * :harha
< 1623790017 185475 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@freenode-sue.as0.k20oau.IP JOIN #esoteric * :hakatashi
> 1623790102 319523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Taneb: I think I'm maybe mixing a little of Fallout's Pip-Boy into this thing, but I think that's not programmable.
> 1623790269 622250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> Witch of Plagiation
> 1623790336 681701 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> *rism
> 1623790492 910175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Taneb: Other games I might have been thinking of are Hack 'n' Slash, and Else Heart.Break().
> 1623790762 360747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sknebel> what is LambdaMOO?
< 1623790868 590231 :noisytoot[x]!noisytoot@freenode/user/Noisytoot NICK :Noisytoot
> 1623791426 612485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sknebel> thx
> 1623791475 377321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> you can program the behavior of objects inside the moo?
> 1623791479 53494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> like second life?
> 1623791867 129145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> OK
> 1623791869 713568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> this is cool!
> 1623791871 528024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> There is also ifMUD, which doesn't have object prototypes though. You can though set permission (although all or nothing; you can't set per group or per field or whatever) for reading, teleporting, and some others
> 1623791877 970379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> Are peoplee making interesting things in it
> 1623791899 202880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> can you put two objects together and they pass data between each other
> 1623791941 354953 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Heh, I've sort of always assumed (for no particular reason) the "lambda" in the name has some relationship to lambda calculus, but I guess it doesn't.
> 1623792015 735163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> i wonder how it implements programming languages
> 1623792028 342509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> > It is the oldest MOO today
> 1623792030 15185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>  error:
> 1623792030 15284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>      • Data constructor not in scope:
> 1623792030 15329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>          It :: t0 -> t1 -> t2 -> t3 -> t4 -> t
> 1623792047 802743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I am #20071 on ifMUD
> 1623792054 103765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> what does that mean?
> 1623792056 241310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myname> i heard hellmoo is fun
> 1623792087 797784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> is it better to use telnet or a mud client?
> 1623792116 66370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> You could use either
> 1623792134 459051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> OK, telnet
> 1623792138 450616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> telnet lambda.moo.mud.org 8888
< 1623792497 148259 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@freenode-3h7.fca.c02f1j.IP JOIN #esoteric * :realname
< 1623792506 269182 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@freenode-3h7.fca.c02f1j.IP PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
> 1623792534 594390 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> what?
> 1623792542 941823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> how do I use an item that I have?
> 1623792571 934256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> did you break lambdamoo using #0
> 1623792573 279585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> ?
> 1623792713 614088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_in_Cyberspace Mr. Bungle, who leveraged a "voodoo doll" subprogram that allowed him to make actions that were falsely attributed to other characters in the virtual community
< 1623792731 754761 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
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> 1623792832 23079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> wow!
> 1623792850 907832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> I want to know more about that
> 1623792865 523475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> i've stopped playing lambdamoo https://bpa.st/GWBQ
> 1623792872 495855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> his frustrated me
< 1623793003 223625 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
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> 1623793016 772384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> thanks
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< 1623793453 312970 :fizzie!irc@freenode-u7r.j96.s5fp3r.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Heikki Kallasjoki
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> 1623794247 70433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> There's a book 'My Tiny Life.' about the LambdaMOO incident, and the MOO community generally. It's good from memory. (I have a copy somewhere)
> 1623794263 875860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nakilon> this log looks like ai dungeon
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< 1623795021 906868 :LKoen_!~LKoen@freenode-2h8.fsb.89ikds.IP QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1623795186 809982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<salpynx> The book is broader in scope than that one incident and article. I recommend it to anyone interested in early online networked communities and crossovers to RL. It covers positive and negative aspects, and is notable as an early document of that sort of community. And LambdaMOO was a neat thing.
> 1623795344 811188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<riv> salpynx, !
< 1623795420 614089 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@freenode-uac.l8t.mde629.IP QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1623795459 209815 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@freenode-uac.l8t.mde629.IP JOIN #esoteric * :Gourdmeister
< 1623795464 221874 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@freenode-uac.l8t.mde629.IP QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1623796009 576384 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1623796023 189849 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP JOIN #esoteric * :realname
< 1623796331 890974 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623796343 861763 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623796448 943655 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1623796462 345257 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP JOIN #esoteric * :realname
< 1623796603 101649 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623796614 757776 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623796820 528436 :budonyc!~budonyc@freenode-gnf.uat.694d8g.IP QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1623798131 682503 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623798142 796784 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623798403 187616 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623798415 883555 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623800160 967040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84566&oldid=84560 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+66) 10/* Examples: */ Xats,
< 1623800231 699760 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623800243 810188 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623800503 385876 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623800515 863613 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623801877 621988 :user3456!user3456@freenode-0eos70.k02a.bhj2.q4asrn.IP QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1623811265 223764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84567&oldid=84451 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+5744) 10Added some simple math operations.
< 1623811331 738311 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623811343 115220 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623811603 58243 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623811615 754376 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623814331 729922 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623814344 856090 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623814606 172879 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623814618 758206 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623815531 830900 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623815543 943214 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623815803 149354 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623815815 923247 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623816731 942277 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623816744 787040 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623817002 983994 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623817014 889928 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
< 1623817931 730319 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623817943 913431 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623818196 743560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> didn't find any edible mushrooms
> 1623818200 672378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> but I had a great time
< 1623818203 183477 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
> 1623818213 829017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> and we saw bears!!
< 1623818215 769848 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623818232 582984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> mama and two cubs
> 1623818240 76094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> drove by them on the way in
> 1623818259 527207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> cubs immediately climbed trees and they all stared at us until we moved on
> 1623818303 51239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<keegan> also a deer walked right through camp, i didn't see it as I was half asleep but I heard what in retrospect must have been it, and found a pile of fresh deer poop right by my tent
> 1623818446 534289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84568&oldid=80569 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1108) 10update some links so I can find things easier
< 1623818531 687497 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623818544 789387 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP JOIN #esoteric * :john
> 1623818699 315391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> keegan: wow! sounds like a lovely trip :)
< 1623818731 65445 :metcalf!~metcalf@freenode-61v.tfj.lgvjp5.IP QUIT :Client exited
< 1623829116 321739 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@freenode-3h7.fca.c02f1j.IP JOIN #esoteric * :realname
< 1623829564 449293 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@freenode-3h7.fca.c02f1j.IP QUIT :Connection closed
> 1623830281 247143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda: the Gathering14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84569&oldid=39185 5* 03B jonas 5* (+31) 10