> 1621468940 61319 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Num14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83099&oldid=83049 5* 03AndrewBayly 5* (-3751) 10/* Main */ > 1621468966 102002 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Num14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83100&oldid=83099 5* 03AndrewBayly 5* (+1) 10/* Main */ < 1621469025 438080 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Oh, right, actually the UTC midnight was just now. Forgot about BST. < 1621469053 319599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :oh... I didn't pay attention to that, yes < 1621469081 634219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ozone is fighting it out with chanserv, now there's a sight < 1621469267 861229 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Weird. The version of the bot I built on buster segfaults, but the one built on my daily-driver desktop (sid) doesn't. < 1621469275 966039 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I built it with Bazel, that's not supposed to happen. ;) < 1621469295 166108 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :At least it's reproducible, so hopefully I can figure it out. < 1621469306 774696 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :"that was not supposed to happen" is a great candidate for famous last words < 1621469411 115631 :DHeadshot_!~smuxi@cpc121954-woki8-2-0-cust72.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1621469507 406768 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :It dies in std::thread::detach(). The system's almost entirely a single-threaded event loop, but there's one thread spawned to handle making blocking getaddrinfo calls, because I thought bundling an external DNS resolver like c-ares would be overkill. < 1621469644 671229 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :example < 1621469713 14628 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :https://0x0.st/-eHB.txt looks p. mysterious. What's that `call 0x0` doing there? > 1621469790 533565 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Icecream17/Arbitrary14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83101 5* 03Icecream17 5* (+512) 10Created page with "'''Icecream17/Arbitrary''' is ridiculous The following is subject to change {| class="wikitable" |+ Static programs |- ! Bits !! Hexadecimal source code !! What the source c..." < 1621469810 840923 :example!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :nickname < 1621469826 838923 :nickname!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :example < 1621470011 41677 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :The context for the call is `std::thread(, ).detach();`, which I at least naively thought would just mean "start an independent thread running that function". < 1621470023 154256 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621470026 34239 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ohayo. < 1621470146 203406 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Oh, Libera does ## instead of #? < 1621470165 333398 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :By my interpretation, we *should* have been ##esoteric on freenode as well. < 1621470189 886402 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :yeah, Freenode had a bunch of channels grandfathered into single-# names < 1621470202 366939 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :although you could argue that #esoteric was the official channel of the open source esolang wiki < 1621470213 173658 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :just like how #trains is the official channel of trainbot < 1621470244 832686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :keegan: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal#Freenode_and_the_future has some thoughts in that direction < 1621470250 356796 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I seem to recall someone kind of hinted we should think about migrating to ##esoteric on freenode, but we never bothered. < 1621470275 379307 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :On the Libera policies page, I saw there's this new category of "community channels", between project channels and informal channels. < 1621470288 667778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: no, that's what we say the official policy is because there's a rare case when people when squat a #-channel and staff takes it over for the project with the relevant name for searchability, and we want to have something to back it up. they don't actually mind #-channels when they don't cause trouble like that, but they can't say that officially. < 1621470317 584742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :any long-established #-channel that doesn't steal namespace is fine < 1621470337 365357 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :As far as Libera goes, I think a "community channel" would be the reasonable designation for this one as the official community channel of esolangs.org, but `#esolangs` would IMO be a more reasonable name than `#esoteric`. < 1621470340 91279 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :b_jonas: I think they care when they have visibility, like #math which was basically forced to become ##math < 1621470341 370008 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(Despite the history.) < 1621470357 322223 :example!moony@hellomouse.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :yea, #esolangs would make more sense at this point < 1621470366 680263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: yes, #math is stealing prime namespace, it's a channel name that people will type in even without outside references < 1621470375 985978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :#esoteric, yeah, is probably small enough nobody cares. Also the attitude has probably shifted quite a bit over the years. < 1621470392 795397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :and it's a big channel with occasional drama < 1621470416 141031 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ISRT that also happened to ##java, which makes sense, because it's both obvious and having it as #java implies it's associated with whoever owns Java at the moment (Oracle?). < 1621470430 266322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :#esoteric isn't. a few people from the other type of esoterica did find their way in, and some of them were probably genuine rather than sockpuppets trying to make fun of the welcome message < 1621470445 20915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :b_jonas: I really think #math became ##math mainly to set an example. Any project claiming that name would have to deal with people who wanted to just discuss (talk *about*) math. < 1621470468 238563 :example!moony@hellomouse.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :pls don't set me. (lemme change my nick back) < 1621470474 62762 :example!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :moony < 1621470537 243061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :is there any kind of namespace continuity implied? < 1621470544 513670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I mean from freenode to libera < 1621470550 268478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :or is it considered new domain? < 1621470556 414714 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :uh, new domain afaik < 1621470697 316532 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :In other news, IDGI. When I build it on that other system, the binary contains https://0x0.st/-eHS.txt as the implementation of std::thread::detach -- when I build it on this one, it just gets a PLT entry referring to . < 1621470815 118886 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :so the dynamic linker messes up? < 1621470840 952083 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :..wtf is that google thing doing in there < 1621470862 643544 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I think that's just a random symbol that happened to end up associated with address 0 for whatever reason. < 1621470928 103072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :right, makes sense, sort of < 1621470949 323777 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :But I don't know how it manages to get a "call 0" in there. Maybe I'll need to look at some intermediate files. < 1621471060 763679 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Oh, there *is* a difference in the BUILD files: the working one has commented out features = ["fully_static_link"]. < 1621471074 622777 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :That sounds odd enough that it's probably what's screwing it up. < 1621471107 3590 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Though I've no recollection of why that's there in the first place. < 1621471296 349410 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Let's give it a whirl. < 1621471308 574178 :esolangs!~esolangs@techne.zem.fi JOIN :##esoteric < 1621471325 348109 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: Is #java a place for coffee discussions? < 1621471357 825363 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :After two years or so of punting it until later, I can finally produce a new binary that works. (Well, assuming it does.) < 1621471470 553660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :chibi: is Java coffee actually such a thing? because I'm quite sure I hadn't heard about that until the Java language people started to spread that origin story. I think they invented that to have a cool explanation for their name like Python. < 1621471525 752733 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Java the Indonesian island definitely predates Java the programming language, and is associated with coffee. < 1621471552 897634 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Wouldn't know any of the details, though, not being a coffee-ist. < 1621471587 322554 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Have I mentioned our team's hybrid coffee/tea break is called a "toffee break", but never has any toffee involved? < 1621471597 833545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :the indonesian island does, yes < 1621471615 758755 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: that's sad < 1621471619 492093 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Apparently so, though my knowledge of coffee extends to how to brew good coffee in a pot and that's about it < 1621471627 224542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :even its name < 1621471692 319592 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I've never really had toffee, what's it taste like? < 1621471753 86721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: that 0x0 may be __gthrw_pthread_create, which is a /weak/ reference to pthread_create... which might stay 0 if you "forget" to link in pthreads? < 1621471773 215726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :s/create/detach/g < 1621471778 743039 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :It's a bit like fudge and caramel. < 1621471823 241075 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(I'm looking at /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/10/bits/gthr-default.h) < 1621471859 712385 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: Yeah, I think it must've been something about that fully_static_link thing, which I've reconstructed to having been an attempt to produce a binary that I could runs while I didn't have a system with exactly-matching library versions as the target machine big enough to run the build. < 1621471865 994279 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Guessing it just wasn't pthreads-compatible. < 1621471924 630912 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Ooh, maybe that'd be nice to pair with some black coffee < 1621471957 519220 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/42057 sounds potentially related. < 1621472107 150995 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e JOIN :##esoteric > 1621473181 513254 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CiaaiK 5* 10New user account < 1621475136 815103 :reader445!b9bbf341@unknownnetwork-a.clients.kiwiirc.com JOIN :##esoteric < 1621475715 154320 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1621476000 82255 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc121954-woki8-2-0-cust72.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1621476764 719120 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Finites at Fredy's14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83102 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+4732) 10This was _supposed_ to be a parody, but has become more of an uninspiring, but accurate, review. "Fair use" either way. < 1621477715 271900 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1621477934 540131 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :##esoteric > 1621482743 596679 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83103&oldid=82807 5* 03New Army 5* (-63) 10The link doesn't seem to be dead. > 1621482864 839542 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83104&oldid=83098 5* 03New Army 5* (+187) 10/* LifeWiki links */ < 1621484431 575207 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :##esoteric < 1621485752 957662 :reader445!b9bbf341@unknownnetwork-a.clients.kiwiirc.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1621485951 331097 :ski_!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se JOIN :##esoteric < 1621487752 284289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hi let this day be nice to everyone! < 1621487980 894237 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I've made toffee before. < 1621487991 205132 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Confectionery is neatomatic 4,000. < 1621488792 575752 :ski_!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se NICK :ski < 1621490985 450290 :jinn!~jinn@d.jinn.army JOIN :##esoteric < 1621490997 613385 :jinn!~jinn@d.jinn.army PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hello is this the compilier design channel from freenode? < 1621491018 483615 :jinn!~jinn@d.jinn.army PART :##esoteric < 1621491041 860788 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1621491042 426473 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1621491042 464689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1621491188 616157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :##esoteric < 1621491349 585375 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621491557 111788 :esolangs!~esolangs@techne.zem.fi JOIN :##esoteric < 1621491557 192812 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-001.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :##esoteric < 1621491649 84442 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621491991 204088 :jinn!~jinn@d.jinn.army JOIN :##esoteric < 1621491997 1234 :jinn!~jinn@d.jinn.army PRIVMSG ##esoteric :8-) oh < 1621494748 860288 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1621494758 836535 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1621494764 129911 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@81.4.121.116 JOIN :##esoteric < 1621494805 749004 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@81.4.121.116 QUIT :Changing host < 1621494805 749044 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN :##esoteric < 1621494875 280271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1621494906 142099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :##esoteric < 1621494992 43222 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric > 1621499356 137869 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Spider solitaire14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83105&oldid=83032 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+31) 10 > 1621500349 491909 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83106&oldid=83104 5* 03Int-e 5* (+189) 10/* LifeWiki links */ > 1621502546 144239 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83107&oldid=83106 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+237) 10/* LifeWiki links */ < 1621509964 201617 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1621510569 40770 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Actually, we've never had +t (or problem with "unauthorized" topic changes either), that was just a default setting. Let's get rid of that. < 1621510574 336894 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services.libera.chat MODE ##esoteric +o :fizzie < 1621510576 890997 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi MODE ##esoteric :-t < 1621510580 459181 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi MODE ##esoteric -o :FireFly < 1621510584 643461 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi MODE ##esoteric -o :fizzie < 1621510589 523437 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(Tab completion strikes again.) < 1621511117 987458 :FireFly!firefly@user/firefly PRIVMSG ##esoteric :haha < 1621511131 582891 :FireFly!firefly@user/firefly PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Now I'm extra deopped < 1621511218 221980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :> "euZWcKvS2ejX" < 1621511219 844072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : "euZWcKvS2ejX" < 1621511658 332653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Oh, -t is allowed? It failed in #esoteric yesterday, somehow... < 1621511945 229485 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :You need to "chanserv set #chan mlock" from the default (+nt-lk) to something that either doesn't mention t, or has -t. I just set it to +n-lk. < 1621512369 221695 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Trying to manage all these channels in one client is a bit of a headache. Only one of my lurking set (#perl) has entirely moved. A couple others just set up forks. > 1621512829 497427 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83108&oldid=83067 5* 03Batata 5* (-9) 10 > 1621512891 413602 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83109&oldid=83108 5* 03Batata 5* (+12) 10 > 1621512919 797059 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83110&oldid=83109 5* 03Batata 5* (-3) 10 < 1621513011 387428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: did I mention that I set up a separate shell account for tracking Libera channels :P > 1621513471 518889 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83111&oldid=83110 5* 03Batata 5* (+43) 10 > 1621513555 454282 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83112&oldid=83111 5* 03Batata 5* (+14) 10 > 1621513563 544807 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83113&oldid=83112 5* 03Batata 5* (-2) 10 < 1621514469 907829 :jinn!~jinn@d.jinn.army PRIVMSG ##esoteric :elliot and ion are u here in the new channel? < 1621514541 814558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :jinn: try /who ##esoteric < 1621514643 920323 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :or names < 1621516126 93616 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e JOIN :##esoteric < 1621516793 735487 :Trieste!~T@user/pilgrim JOIN :##esoteric < 1621516818 987066 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds) < 1621516875 38143 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1621516878 645278 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1621516980 202755 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@user/bowserinator QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1621517100 787844 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e JOIN :##esoteric < 1621517633 117774 :moony5!moony@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621517653 967879 :moony5!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :moony < 1621517690 761777 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621518031 71589 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621518996 427432 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :cd < 1621520077 129169 :u0_a61!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e JOIN :##esoteric < 1621520077 324084 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1621520393 926147 :u0_a61!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e NICK :Wezl < 1621521664 625035 :cd!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :moony < 1621522233 536760 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1621522242 646977 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1621522396 751871 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds) < 1621523083 936350 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621523109 160683 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621523125 138085 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621524652 142802 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN :##esoteric > 1621525144 909900 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83114&oldid=83107 5* 03Taneb 5* (+360) 10 < 1621525275 563361 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :moon < 1621525622 335200 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1 < 1621525637 149377 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN :##esoteric < 1621525687 946551 :river!~river@user/river JOIN :##esoteric < 1621525690 279686 :river!~river@user/river PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ok < 1621525700 801525 :moon!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :Guest17817 < 1621525710 163618 :river!~river@user/river PRIVMSG ##esoteric :can we get an esoteric cloak? < 1621525715 434192 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG ##esoteric :goodbye, freenode, hello libera. < 1621525783 88824 :Guest17817!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :moony < 1621526142 36377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :river: You'd need to find a Libera staffer who appreciates the joke. < 1621526168 975593 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Sad as it is, fizzies boring esolang community idea is more likely to fly. < 1621526198 693913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(or esolangs, whatever) < 1621526248 36558 :river!~river@user/river PRIVMSG ##esoteric :noooooo < 1621526270 937735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :otoh who needs cloaks :P < 1621526294 956147 :river!~river@user/river PRIVMSG ##esoteric :people without cool domain names < 1621526806 125708 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1621526920 77236 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse.net JOIN :##esoteric < 1621527288 984666 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Better solution < 1621527293 122689 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :get a cool domain name < 1621527481 487085 :imode!~imode@user/imode NICK :FuckAndrewLee < 1621527528 120199 :FuckAndrewLee!~imode@user/imode NICK :AndrewLee < 1621527532 722298 :AndrewLee!~imode@user/imode NICK :imode < 1621527554 681441 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :cd < 1621528405 512968 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: As a compromise solution, let's register a community with the boring name ("esolangs"), but include `#esoteric` in the list of claimed channel names, on the basis of historical precedent and discoverability. < 1621528426 513266 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :In either case, I'd kind of give it a bit of time first to see how this Libera thing evolves, before starting a discussion with staffers. I feel like they might have better things to do at the moment, anyway. < 1621528523 395402 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: I would mention that it's easier to register a channel and community on OFTC < 1621528600 471791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :or more like, you don't have to register communities < 1621528603 935497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :you can just register a channel < 1621528607 717793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :mind you, that works on freenode too < 1621528626 645540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :the whole group thing is just an official path to resolve namespace conflicts in single-flat-land < 1621528657 660298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :OFTC doesn't bother with that < 1621528788 362049 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Yeah, I know; I don't think the difficulty is an issue, though. And I think there's something nice about having a claim that's not just "we were here first", though I don't have a rational reason for that feeling. < 1621529383 994505 :jix!~jix@user/jix JOIN :##esoteric < 1621530794 393215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ok < 1621530795 62755 :cd!moony@hellomouse.net NICK :moony < 1621530854 620291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: does fungot have an command that a bot can use to request that fungot ignore it? < 1621530905 41848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :or maybe a channel that the bot can join to request this? < 1621531014 852115 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse.net QUIT :Changing host < 1621531014 932886 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@user/bowserinator JOIN :##esoteric < 1621531036 93563 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Unfortunately not. There's a single regular expression (matched against the message prefix) that defines the ignore list. < 1621531057 213280 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Not even persisted, I just re-apply it every time I restart it. < 1621531066 337432 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :By grepping in my logs if it's fallen off the backscroll. < 1621531072 731483 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :IOW, a highly productionized setup. < 1621532082 632819 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user/kspalaiologos JOIN :##esoteric < 1621532937 829111 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com JOIN :##esoteric < 1621533065 831158 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ACTION 👀 < 1621535436 332849 :imode!~imode@user/imode NICK :FuckAndrewLee < 1621535596 844690 :FuckAndrewLee!~imode@user/imode NICK :imode < 1621536344 119438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: hmm... I might have to replace his invocation keyword then < 1621536405 610201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :or just convince you to change that regex < 1621536413 86076 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1621536479 118042 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :##esoteric < 1621536544 718130 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG ##esoteric :finally fixing lambdabot? < 1621536650 151744 :velik!~velik@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com JOIN :##esoteric < 1621538371 541849 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I'm happy to change that regex whenever. If it was written in a more reasonable language, I could also consider adding a feature to request being ignored, but as it stands it might be quite long before I'd get to that. < 1621538387 333372 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I should probably clean up that list anyway, it's got a lot of legacy cruft. It's currently: < 1621538390 965210 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|HackEso|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot|otherbot|j-bot|esowiki|bfbot|egelbot)! < 1621539652 432608 :imode!~imode@user/imode NICK :kronk < 1621540493 439381 :moony!moony@hellomouse.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hah otherbot < 1621541171 507261 :kronk!~imode@user/imode NICK :imode < 1621543689 387377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :the table on https://libera.chat/guides/extbans makes my eyes hurt a bit < 1621543715 940178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(alternating between grey on white and white on grey for code spans) < 1621543931 436039 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Hmm, it's all light-on-dark for me, just slightly different shades. But I've got a prefer-dark thing going on, maybe it styles for that. < 1621544570 549397 :eight!~eight@user/eight JOIN :##esoteric < 1621544758 666459 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alternate.png < 1621544770 730230 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :oh, dark theme, hmm < 1621545195 721507 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Well, it's not *that* dissimilar in the dark theme either. https://zem.fi/tmp/extbans.png < 1621545225 433824 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Got the same thing going where the code span color is the same as the background of the *other* row. < 1621545410 516188 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I get the idea and the logic but my brain hurts ;) < 1621545466 183238 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I've just dropped my account with freenode nickserv and removed the config from my bouncer. Feels like an end of an era < 1621545592 107649 :eight!~eight@user/eight QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1621545831 507387 :mrkajetanp!~kajetan@2a01:4b00:ea36:6c00:56e9:4ef3:28ef:7ef6 JOIN :##esoteric < 1621546635 980576 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :shachaf: all of a sudden found your answer on SO about Fix, Mu and Nu in recursion-schemes. Thanks for writing it, clarified a great deal < 1621546649 188270 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user/kspalaiologos QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1621546844 790530 :shikhin!~shikhin@user/shikhin JOIN :##esoteric < 1621546894 402934 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hm is it obvious at first sight if μx. x + x and μx. μy. x + y are (naturally) isomorphic? Oh, nvm they are both empty < 1621546918 256939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(in the strict sense of course) < 1621547088 355907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :arseniiv: you could use ux. 1+x+x and uxy. 1+x+y instead < 1621547099 996595 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :as for the general situation… The allows ⊥ and x1 + x2 inductively, but as μy. x + y allows only < 1621547102 732236 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :oops < 1621547107 394677 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :early posted < 1621547238 673695 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :as for the general situation… The type A ≡ μx. x + x allows ⊥ and x1 + x2 for x1, x2 :: A inductively, but B ≡ μy. x + y allows only ⊥ and c + y for y :: B so for example (⊥ + ⊥) + ⊥ :: A and not :: B. Hehehe > 1621547381 210673 PRIVMSG ##esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83115&oldid=83114 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+1128) 10/* Freenode and the future */ Thoughts about networks. < 1621547421 806712 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: yep that’s an interesting elaboration on 1 + x which is precisely the direction I looked in. Now we have naturals with two successor kinds in the first case (and in case of conaturals, 2^N infinities) and in the second case… < 1621547482 205277 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :arseniiv: x is free in B, I'm confused < 1621547500 104490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ow I mis-edited it < 1621547552 577218 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I planned to write first about μy. x + y which I did but then I forgot I hadn’t written about the full thing < 1621547620 111185 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(but still (⊥ + ⊥) + ⊥ shouldn’t inhabit μxy. x + y, if I’m correct) < 1621547748 71139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :okay, μxy. 1 + x + y is of course just μx. N + x and that should give us… yep, again less possibilities: first we use just successors of the first kind and then just those other ones, no intermixing, so not naturally isomorphic with μx. 1 + x + x < 1621547768 410281 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I wonder if these two types occur somewhere in practice < 1621547907 334700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :for example conaturals are great for timeout values (like how many small-step evaluations we are allowed to take), even if encoded in a naïve way. That has some charm IMO < 1621548022 724552 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :also one could try something with 1 + (x, y) or (1 + x, 1 + y) < 1621548039 896593 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :arseniiv: let X = μx y. x + y, Y = μy. X + y; ⊥ inhabits X and Y, so ⊥ + ⊥ inhabits X, so (⊥ + ⊥) + ⊥ inhabits X. < 1621548231 130878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: oh < 1621548292 115106 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :wait, that Y is something completely different < 1621548315 592124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Basically thinking of it as data A = A A B; data B = B A B vs. data C = C C C < 1621548350 492303 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :though would we even get to μx. x + x by applying this ΛX.Y repeatedly to X? < 1621548401 321257 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: but those datas are mutually recursive whereas X, Y aren’t < 1621548444 878291 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :arseniiv: X already does the full mutual recursion. Y just occurs in unfolding the outer fixed point. < 1621548574 249488 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ah yes, yes < 1621548593 475844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :μx y. x + y = ⊥ | Y, Y = ⊥ | X + Y < 1621548605 155672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :so I guess my datatypes aren't reflecting this accurately < 1621548664 669969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :And there are two ways to get a bottom from μx y. ..., but we have no way of distinguishing them? Bottoms suck. < 1621548683 837097 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :μx y. 1 + x + y doesn't have that issue < 1621548756 80894 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric : And there are two ways to get a bottom from μx y. ..., but we have no way of distinguishing them? Bottoms suck. => though in the haskellization we should get different bottoms due to explicit wraps and unwraps, wouldn’t we? < 1621548775 344289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I hadn’t thought too much < 1621548785 177417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :arseniiv: which is how I realized that my representation is wrong < 1621548843 215563 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ah, that post was about this < 1621548845 473122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :data A = A B; data B = B A B <-- it's more like this, and then you do get distinct _|_ and A _|_ before branching. Also, evidently, I'm doing a product instead of a sum. < 1621548874 123452 :Wezl!~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:78ad:bff:fef4:8c3e QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1621548874 884066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :data B = B1 A | B2 B < 1621548907 64967 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I agree 1 + x + y and not concerning ourselves with ⊥-containing terms is clearer < 1621548921 891004 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :yep I hadn’t even see you did a product at the first time < 1621548928 434024 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric ::D < 1621548978 384224 :river!~river@user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1621549040 158798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :There must be a bunch of papers about how this invalidates generic programming in Haskell ;) < 1621549060 233339 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :lol < 1621549177 179296 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :. o O ( The Haskell programmer's heaven is a bottom-less pit. ) < 1621549183 850237 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :and it shows I wrote something incomprehensible about μxy. 1 + x + y being the same as μx. x + N :\ < 1621549231 322302 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: I bet what many haskellers’ jokes are about is Just Nothing < 1621549245 49965 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :at least I can definitely say fix Just Nothing does what it says < 1621549252 960546 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :> fix error -- practical joke < 1621549254 366967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Ex... < 1621549296 189368 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(it’s a bit unfair I came up with those two some half an hour earlier and just copied them here) < 1621549321 517197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :yeah I remember fix error, I adviced it to several people < 1621549338 8643 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I have it adviced to this time* < 1621549358 82103 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :> fix show < 1621549359 453688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1621549374 813393 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Huh, what's fix? < 1621549378 262820 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :> t:fix < 1621549378 302172 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :> iterate error "" -- kind of disappointing < 1621549379 762859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : error: < 1621549379 802832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Expr]’ < 1621549379 802862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : with actual type ‘(a0 -> a0) -> a0’ < 1621549379 802868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : ["","*Exception: < 1621549386 517866 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric : fix f = x < 1621549388 300844 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric : where < 1621549393 999730 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric : x = f x < 1621549410 354276 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ski: oh, 2^n − 1, nice < 1621549426 431542 :chibi!~chibi@75-26-238-119.lightspeed.glvwil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ahah. < 1621549434 747602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fix f = last $ iterate f undefined -- find the error < 1621549439 799680 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :imho, escape characters ought not to be escaped, using themselves as indicator character < 1621549446 795036 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I remember b_jonas saying something about rational escape syntax < 1621549484 965904 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :@src undefined < 1621549485 100734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric :undefined = error "Prelude.undefined" < 1621549492 795327 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(there's one error!) < 1621549505 649685 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :GNU Screen gets this right. `^A' is the (default) escape character. to send a literal `^A' (e.g. to a nested session), you do `^Aa'. for two nested, you get `^Aaa'. linear instead of exponential < 1621549517 69775 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(iirc TMux does the same) < 1621549566 772118 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :. o O ( don't nest screens ) < 1621549618 158239 :mrkajetanp!~kajetan@2a01:4b00:ea36:6c00:56e9:4ef3:28ef:7ef6 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1 < 1621549625 341823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :what escape syntax? < 1621549629 467726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hmm < 1621549629 755811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :^Aa is slightly less convenient at depth 1. < 1621549629 844519 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :if `\' was escaped as `\/' (say), then `fix show' above would be `"\"\/"\//"\///"\////"..."' < 1621549644 470577 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Also taking ^A away from readline is wrong. < 1621549650 691850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I might have said that I use \x5C all the time instead of \\ < 1621549671 474563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :and that I wish K&R set a simple letter escape to mean a backslash, like \s instead of \\ < 1621549677 666021 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :so that we could have it standardized by now < 1621549685 619669 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(hard to avoid nesting Screens, when you have a mediate SSH (or `su', say)) < 1621549687 721139 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :So... personally I'm going against the quoting efficiency with escape ^B^B < 1621549716 717655 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ACTION normally uses `escape ^Zz' < 1621549724 629453 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(i don't suspend that often anyway) < 1621549750 896646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I suspend things a lot more than is healthy. < 1621549751 519941 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :b_jonas : yes < 1621549767 909985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :but as for screen, I use ^Qq , and in the rare case when I have two screens nested, one of them uses ^Qq and the other ^Aa < 1621549769 919727 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(using `escape ^Oo' as alternate) < 1621549780 791809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :^Z, less a file, forget about the background job... later that day, kill half a dozen pending jobs < 1621549809 145039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :but there's also the banal ^Z; kill %1 trick that often works when ^C doesn't < 1621549870 734463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fungot: where are you and what's an idiosyncracy? < 1621549885 800791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :`? freenode < 1621549897 237104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :oh < 1621549940 257470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I do admit that I decided Consumer Society has a less than ideal escape syntax, one that can cause leaning toothpick syndrome < 1621549954 681679 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Hmm, why didn't that work. < 1621549955 157881 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :what's that ? < 1621549976 335314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fungot? < 1621549987 706944 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :"Consumer Society" ? < 1621549991 428754 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: well, no hackeso? < 1621549994 657375 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :No, the `? freenode -- and I guess it's because HackEso is gone, but I'm not sure why. < 1621549997 654689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :`echo z0eNGh9ji3Y < 1621550011 325334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ski: it's an esolang I'm making, or one of a sibling pair of esolangs rather < 1621550016 358244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :08:10:45 --- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: lambdabot, HackEso, chibi < 1621550018 91703 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ah < 1621550026 907069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :so gone for ... 16 hours < 1621550038 850325 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :how does its escaping work ? < 1621550058 278122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :cause a netsplit, don't come back --> successful escape < 1621550083 381521 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :chibi is a Scheme bot ? < 1621550104 464288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :ski: won't tell yet, the details are not public, but it's one that expands exponentially if you try to nest it < 1621550105 209919 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: Oh, it had a temporary network problem, but one that caused it to be immediately "connection refused"ing, and systemd went all "Start request repeated too quickly" and gave up. < 1621550105 951560 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :oh, apparently not < 1621550121 169344 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi JOIN :##esoteric < 1621550125 119628 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG ##esoteric :b_jonas : i'm sorry to hear :/ < 1621550127 825196 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :`ping < 1621550128 809387 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :pong < 1621550134 313131 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :That was simple enough. < 1621550144 45986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: ah. I think lambdabot just sleeps for 3 minutes and tries again < 1621550146 701128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :`echo XpKudeGz98Ar fungot < 1621550147 444144 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :XpKudeGz98Ar fungot < 1621550150 949678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(well the loop that controls it) < 1621550229 73386 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I don't have fungot over on this side, though I guess I could. It wouldn't have the same shared "repository" (in terms of ^def and such), but OTOH those commands aren't really used much. < 1621550235 887092 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :lambdabot sleeps! I knew it! < 1621550251 285771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: you don't have to, if you only have fungot on one side then you won't need to make it ignore the bridge < 1621550277 155472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric :. z Z < 1621550353 912379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fungot will work well that way because it's triggered by a keyword inside the line, pear tree style, unlike most bots that are triggered by a marking at the start of the message contents, so they should be present on all sides or have special code to accomodate the bridge < 1621550360 519550 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :well... < 1621550372 887407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :yeah, there are caret commands where the trigger is at the start of a line < 1621550373 981354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: Stop impersonating me, it's annoying! < 1621550376 326568 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :lambdabot: @goodnight < 1621550376 402287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1621550376 535260 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :that complicates things < 1621550405 939679 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hm this gives me strange ideas < 1621550415 349545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :yes, #esoteric tends to do that < 1621550420 918454 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: > 2 + 2 maybe maybe? < 1621550449 791313 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :arseniiv: some sort of parse error < 1621550455 429654 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :> 2 + 2 maybe maybe? < 1621550456 868769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : :1:19: error: < 1621550456 980842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG ##esoteric : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) < 1621550457 918556 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG ##esoteric :hm should have made “maybe maybe” a comment < 1621550478 16852 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :Bridges are kind of awkward, but I guess there's the benefit that we might see a cross-network botloop. < 1621550503 543931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: yes, that's why I asked about fungot's ignore facilities < 1621550511 79673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :so the bot can ask fungot to ignore it < 1621550520 615277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :s/bot/bridge/ < 1621550989 32184 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :int-e: I'm sure that delay is something I could configure in the .service file. Probably by setting "RestartSec=...", because the log also says "Service RestartSec=100ms expired, scheduling restart" between the 6 attempts it made. < 1621551041 961392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: ah I don't know about that, I have a python script < 1621551105 376006 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I've been trying to be all modern. < 1621551168 250404 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I have systemd units somewhere else, but nothing that actively connects over the network and has to try to be nice . < 1621551204 183621 :fizzie!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fungot I've got running in a screen that I just start completely manually. :) < 1621551550 153479 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: why do it manually when you can do https://paste.debian.net/1198292/ < 1621551608 802760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :(the best part is where it sleeps for 0.3 seconds because `top` is so slow to start up) < 1621551669 129664 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :my lambdabot setup is *not* modern or nice < 1621551713 669861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :none of my setups are modern < 1621551718 988239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I don't believe in modern stuff < 1621551754 641954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :or at least I believe in only some modern stuff and not others < 1621551756 561921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :I'm selective < 1621551760 222398 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: The thing is, I started out exactly as you described... set up screen, start the bot from inside screen < 1621551779 574907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :fizzie: and over time I added more default screens, and then I got tired of doing it manually every reboot :) < 1621551809 322798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :but the path of least resistance was to just keep the basic setup and automate it < 1621551835 10143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :and by now the result is not safe for audiences outside of this channel < 1621551970 633999 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG ##esoteric :and it's kind of useful for experimentation... if the socat needs tweaking I can ^C there and modify the command line < 1621553444 58216 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.1.73.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1621553496 579554 :mrkajetanp!~kajetan@2a01:4b00:ea36:6c00:56e9:4ef3:28ef:7ef6 JOIN :##esoteric