←2021-06-14 2021-06-15 2021-06-16→ ↑2021 ↑all
00:00:26 <shachaf> Wait, R11 isn't caller-save, whoops.
00:00:46 <shachaf> Wait, yes it is.
00:05:17 <esolangs> [[Pinocchio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84523&oldid=84511 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+10) Cats, misc
00:08:23 <shachaf> Oh, this is much nicer.
00:11:46 <shachaf> oren: Chet out this new version.
00:18:54 <esolangs> [[RandBow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84524&oldid=84514 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+91) /* Rules */ Cats,
00:29:00 -!- imode has changed nick to FuckAndrewLee.
00:40:45 <b_jonas> I just realized that most kids from the smartphone generation might not understand what "I will not buy this record, it is scratched." means
00:45:48 <pikhq> nah, there's a bit of a resurgence now
00:45:53 <pikhq> FuckAndrewLee++
00:46:20 <FuckAndrewLee> so we fully over here now, or what.
00:46:27 <pikhq> b_jonas: records are no longer a mainstream standard medium but they've taken on a bit of a second life as a collector's format
00:46:36 <FuckAndrewLee> the nick db and the channel db got wiped.
00:46:56 <FuckAndrewLee> by herr lee.
00:49:23 <oerjan> . o O ( i will not buy this smartphone, it is scratched )
00:49:43 <oerjan> what
00:50:07 <pikhq> yeah it's weird
00:51:09 <Corbin> b_jonas: What pikhq said. They know what "a record" is, but they think that they make you look old or like a hipster. (I have niblings who have explained my uncoolness.)
00:52:33 <zzo38> What someone told me is that phonograph records are good quality only the first time they are played
00:52:56 <oerjan> FuckAndrewLee: sheesh. on the bright side maybe nakilon will finally admit we were right :P
00:54:02 <shachaf> oerjan: what odds do you assign to that twh
00:54:16 <oerjan> about 10% hth
00:54:24 <pikhq> idk i think nakilon might be rasengan
00:55:07 <shachaf> As I said in another channel, this is a classic heartwarming Christmas story.
00:55:26 <shachaf> The grinch wanted to ruin Freenode for everyone, and almost succeeded, but it turns out Freenode doesn't come from a store.
00:55:51 <FuckAndrewLee> oerjan: hahahahaha.
00:55:57 <FuckAndrewLee> fair.
00:56:06 <shachaf> Maybe his heart will grow three sizes eventually?
00:59:00 <oren> I listen to most of my music on low-bitrate mp3s
00:59:05 <oerjan> pikhq: i seriously doubt lee is into esolang stuff
01:00:51 <b_jonas> Corbin, pikhq: do they know about CDs and DVDs?
01:01:12 <oren> some people think 32k is too low tho
01:01:36 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84525&oldid=84521 * Makonede * (-229)
01:01:53 <pikhq> b_jonas: depends on the kids' age but probably. they're no longer current but they're not _that_ far removed from currency
01:02:13 <pikhq> just like a typical kid circa 2000 would still know about vhs even though it was an obsolete format then
01:02:42 <zzo38> The advantage of phonograph record is the simplicity of the format; it is a groovy format, rather than a digital one, and you might be able to play even if the power out (if you have one that doesn't need the power). Other than that, it isn't really the advantage generally
01:03:38 <oren> but I did tests, and was unable to hear any difference between 128kb/s and the same songs at 32kb/s
01:04:07 <Corbin> b_jonas: Oh yeah. They're experts on the difference between different disc formats. Do you remember when you learned that MIDI, WAV, and AVI were all different? Same sort of story.
01:05:00 <pikhq> oren: you may want to see an audiologist, i think you have severe hearing loss
01:05:18 <pikhq> (this is like claiming you can't see the difference between 32bpp and 2bpp)
01:10:10 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84526&oldid=84525 * Makonede * (+7)
01:20:55 <oren> have you tested it yourself?
01:21:28 <pikhq> yes?
01:22:05 <oren> ffmpeg -i some.mp3 -b:a 32k some_out.mp3
01:23:04 <pikhq> 32kbps mp3 isn't merely "i can tell the difference" low it's "this sounds like hold music on a phone call" low
01:24:06 <oren> hmm... maybe specific characteristics of the music i'm testing with
01:25:24 <oren> oh duh, these are youtube rips, the original probably was already low-bitrate
01:26:22 <pikhq> yeah, by way of comparison around 42kbps is considered acceptable for _speech_ encoding with mp3
01:27:17 <oerjan> . o O ( oren gets all his music from phone calls holding )
01:29:33 <oren> okay... did u know that VLC doesn't show the actual bitrate of an mp3, just the bitrate it *says* it has?
01:30:41 <oren> which means, that if something is transcoded to a low-quality youtube and back to 128kb/s
01:34:47 <oerjan> shocking
01:35:15 <oren> however, one of these mp3's *says* in vlc 8kb/s
01:37:37 <oren> https://imgur.com/2x60tVI
01:38:15 <oren> i downloaded it sometime prior to 2009
01:39:06 <pikhq> i guarantee you'd know if it actually was though
01:40:29 <oren> based on the file size it's 24 kb/s
01:40:45 <oren> or 3 kilobytes per second
01:44:23 <oren> that at least explains why transcoding to 32 kb/s makes no difference for a lot of these... their actual qulity is already very low
02:01:56 <esolangs> [[User:MaowImpl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84527 * MaowImpl * (+261) My page :)
02:02:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * MaowImpl * uploaded "[[File:MaowImpl July2020.png]]": MaowImpl's profile picture as of July 2020.
02:03:57 <esolangs> [[User:MaowImpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84529&oldid=84527 * MaowImpl * (+44)
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02:06:26 <esolangs> [[User:MaowImpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84530&oldid=84529 * MaowImpl * (+102)
02:09:45 <esolangs> [[User:MaowImpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84531&oldid=84530 * MaowImpl * (-16)
02:26:34 <esolangs> [[Py256]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84532&oldid=84526 * Makonede * (+109)
02:34:51 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84533&oldid=84532 * Makonede * (+101)
03:16:34 <esolangs> [[FurASM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84534 * MaowImpl * (+3103) an alright page, hope it's good enough for the wonderful language of FurASM, our wonderful god
03:16:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * MaowImpl * uploaded "[[File:FurASM Logo.png]]"
03:17:46 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84536&oldid=84533 * Makonede * (+26)
03:18:45 <esolangs> [[FurASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84537&oldid=84534 * MaowImpl * (+6) fixed image size
03:20:05 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84538&oldid=84509 * MaowImpl * (+118) FurASM
03:20:10 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84539&oldid=84536 * Makonede * (+12)
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05:33:47 <esolangs> [[Finites at Fredy's]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84540&oldid=83102 * Salpynx * (+22) Thematic cat
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06:00:26 <esolangs> [[Finites at Fredy's]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84541&oldid=84540 * Salpynx * (+549) OPENQASM 2.0 conversion
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07:40:09 <nakilon> at first you were saying it's bad that he has our "personal data" while being so much diletant in subject of its protection that you create the same account on another network thinking that it would improve anything, lol, using the same nicknames and channels
07:40:37 <nakilon> now when the data is purged you are saying "oh no, it's bad that they now DON'T have the data", lol
07:41:23 <nakilon> and who should you blame in sabotaging and instability other than yourself being supporting on the network ruining
07:42:46 <nakilon> you fucked up your own home
07:42:56 <nakilon> shitted and then abandoned it
07:43:29 <nakilon> tomorrow network owners will say they don't like another leader and you'll repeat it after them again
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07:58:21 <Taneb> Good mornign!
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08:00:08 <int-e> hi taneb
08:02:41 <Taneb> I've decided that I think that SQL is kind of neat
08:03:05 <int-e> sure, it's kind of declarative
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08:12:43 <spruit11> dear people and ops. please confirm the transition from freenode to libera
08:14:03 <Taneb> spruit11: wiki confirms it: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal
08:14:24 <int-e> spruit11: the people confirm it, by and large
08:14:38 <int-e> nakilon seems to be in denial about it, but meh, there's always somebody.
08:15:05 <spruit11> is b_jonas moving too?
08:15:45 <spruit11> ah, well. no need to answer. I'll just see what happens the next week.
08:16:05 <myname> https://isfreenodedeadyet.com
08:16:48 <int-e> spruit11: I think b_jonas maintained a dual presence
08:17:18 <int-e> of course now that freenode's getting a fresh start... last I checked #esoteric wasn't even registered
08:17:37 <int-e> (and I won't register :P)
08:18:01 <spruit11> looks like it's a redirect since I ended up here
08:18:36 <int-e> spruit11: I mean on freenode :P Yes it's registered here and redirects to #esolangs
08:19:20 <myname> i'm curious about how many channels are going to re-register in general
08:21:15 <int-e> I shouldn't care... but I'm at least mildly curious too
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08:35:11 <esolangs> [[What's the dog doin?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84542&oldid=84496 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+33) /* See also */
08:40:09 <FireFly> [ #'j eval services have been restored, btw'
08:40:10 <j-bot> FireFly: 39
08:40:33 <FireFly> I figured you probably want it in here since it was in #esoteric
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08:42:04 <Taneb> I think I crashed it by private messaging it
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08:42:07 <Taneb> Sorry :(
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08:48:26 <int-e> `? prefixes
08:48:29 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
08:52:59 <esolangs> [[DoFor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84543&oldid=84472 * TinyGuy32 * (+795)
08:53:57 <Taneb> fungot, what do you think about relational algebras?
08:53:57 <fungot> Taneb: 4 legs to a table doesn't even seem to be
08:55:12 <esolangs> [[DoFor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84544&oldid=84543 * TinyGuy32 * (+0) /* calling a function: */
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09:14:35 <fizzie> ^ignore
09:14:35 <fungot> ^(HackEso|lambdabot|metasepia|idris-bot|blsqbot|j-bot|esolangs|velik|perlbot)!
09:14:49 <fizzie> Looks like I did keep j-bot on the list.
09:23:25 <fizzie> Also, I'm still register over on the other side, so either they ported over accounts after all, or I'm still in some old chunk of the network after the server I was on disconnected.
09:27:51 <shachaf> You're in an old chunk of the network.
09:29:36 <fizzie> Mm. It didn't have a MOTD on the server, so I sort of assumed it had to be new.
09:30:14 <shachaf> Well, maybe there are more than two chunks, or something more complicated?
09:30:26 <int-e> fizzie: "freenode legacy" is still up, cf. https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_suicide
09:30:55 <int-e> (well, was a short while ago... these things are changing by the hour)
09:31:22 <int-e> it's separate networks, because of different IRCds
09:32:30 <fizzie> Yeah, guess so. And to be fair, it did have *a* MOTD:
09:32:32 <fizzie> "rinnegan.freenode.net Message of the Day - This is charybdis MOTD you might replace it, but if not your friends will laugh at you."
09:32:49 <int-e> Ah, classic.
09:33:20 <fizzie> That's s little like the "Apache is installed" page you get sometimes.
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09:42:31 <wib_jonas> oren: I wonder if you could use a single thread-specific variable to pass the closure upvalue, and then you could have the closure wrappers be copies of the same short function regardless the prototype of the wrapped function, you implement the wrapper directly in assembly and only substitute the upvalue constant and the function address, as then
09:42:32 <wib_jonas> this wrapper won't need to access the stack or saved/parameter registers and just jumps directly to the wrapped function after saving the value to the thread-specific variable.
09:43:51 <wib_jonas> it's not the most efficient way to do this, but then if you wanted something efficient, you wouldn't use this kind of closure, only saner interfaces that pass around the upvalue together with the function pointer\
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09:49:25 <wib_jonas> int-e, spruit11: I'm not connecting to freenode anymore, though I might try to connect in the future if I want to track down out where some channel moved or something like that
09:50:02 <wib_jonas> [ 7*7
09:50:03 <j-bot> wib_jonas: 49
09:50:10 <wib_jonas> FireFly: nice
09:51:08 <Taneb> [ i.10
09:51:08 <j-bot> Taneb: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
09:51:24 <Taneb> (that's what I PM'd j-bot earlier just before it quit and rejoined)
09:52:13 <FireFly> huh weird
09:52:23 <FireFly> I'll check the logs later
09:54:12 <FireFly> in `ircgot': error from irc client: :tungsten.libera.chat 486 j-bot Taneb :You must log
09:54:13 <FireFly> in with services to message this user (RuntimeError)
09:54:15 <FireFly> oh lol
09:55:41 <FireFly> I should figure out giving it an account later, but also not entirely sure that should cause it to crash
09:59:17 <wib_jonas> FireFly: because it's an error code that the code doesn't recognize. you should probably ignore that error so that if someone has that user mode flag set and you can't message them, it doesn't crash.
09:59:21 <wib_jonas> the numeric error code that is
09:59:30 <wib_jonas> jevalbot dies on unknown numeric error codes
09:59:36 <wib_jonas> j-bot source:
09:59:36 <j-bot> wib_jonas, jevalbot source is https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot (originally http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/jevalbot.tgz)
10:00:13 <wib_jonas> FireFly: ignore it here: https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot/blob/master/jeval.rb#L1064
10:00:43 <wib_jonas> or perhaps at https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot/blob/master/jeval.rb#L1070 instead\
10:06:35 <spruit11> yah, all channel and people I more or less care about seemed to have moved so I tried to help out a bit and then deleted the network.
10:06:52 <spruit11> we moved. no point looking back
10:07:02 <wib_jonas> FireFly: I mean the user modes +R and +G in the target user
10:08:21 <wib_jonas> on that note, if you're a channel op or wiki admin and want to get channel rights to the OFTC channels #esolangs (and #esoteric ) which is our escape route, contact b_jonas
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10:40:31 <FireFly> wib_jonas: yeah, I probably should, I'll look at that later
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10:57:13 <esolangs> [[FurASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84545&oldid=84537 * MaowImpl * (+22)
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11:20:49 <fizzie> Heh, out of curiosity went to check the raw logs as to what server the esowiki bot had connected to this morning, since I don't see it myself. Looks like it's connected to something that calls itself "lol.test.freenode.net".
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11:46:12 <myname> serious business
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12:23:55 <esolangs> [[Furcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84546&oldid=77955 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+75) /* Interpreters */ See also
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13:08:53 <esolangs> [[What's the dog doin?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84547&oldid=84542 * GreenThePear * (+4) Since it was actually inspired by Airline food, I decided to put that straight in the first paragraph instead
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13:21:45 <wib_jonas> ``` coins # some people pointed out that "libera" sounds like a name for a cryptocurrency, so just want to check if there's any easter egg here
13:21:48 <HackEso> antalcoin codcoin waitcoin vilcoin nandcoin alerisorcoin minedcoin hq9+coin attecoin remocoin iirgcoin simumcoin ouercoin migurehecoin adjcoin webcoin meycoin tectcoin carintycoin firmacoin
13:22:03 <wib_jonas> why does this rainbow?
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14:09:08 <esolangs> [[User:Grs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84548&oldid=84011 * Grs * (+26)
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15:19:53 <imode1> nakilon: so why don't you fucking leave here you absolute blind fuck.
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15:36:35 <esolangs> [[Qoibl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84549&oldid=84346 * Toxinite * (+69)
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15:42:03 <int-e> imode: I think that language is inappropriate.
15:42:27 <imode> int-e: and you think the person I was resonding to was a breath of fresh air?
15:42:37 <Corbin> I agree that language is inappropriate. Let's ban language.
15:43:03 <imode> we'll all communicate in blinks.
15:44:03 <int-e> imode: No. I just respect you more than nakilon, I think nakilon is a lost cause. :-P
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16:04:41 <esolangs> [[Forwards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84550&oldid=84245 * S1(210) * (+149) /* Overview */ added list unpacking
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16:10:52 <esolangs> [[Qoibl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84551&oldid=84549 * Toxinite * (+205)
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17:03:41 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84552&oldid=84539 * Makonede * (+5)
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17:07:36 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84553&oldid=84552 * Makonede * (-1)
17:08:00 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84554&oldid=84553 * Makonede * (+1)
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17:33:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84555 * ResU * (+998) Created page with "(Note: The title of this page was made to be a palindrome. There is no Esolang:Klat gnalosE.) Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE was created by [[User:ResU]] in 2021. The commands are..."
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17:42:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84556&oldid=84555 * ResU * (-15) /* a=b */
17:43:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84557&oldid=84556 * ResU * (-7) /* < on tape */
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17:47:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84558&oldid=84557 * ResU * (-17) /* Hello, world! */
17:49:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84559&oldid=84558 * ResU * (+17) /* Truth machine */
17:50:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84560&oldid=84559 * ResU * (+36) /* Truth machine */
17:55:23 <esolangs> [[User:ResU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84561&oldid=84368 * ResU * (+49) /* My esolangs: */
17:56:04 <esolangs> [[User:ResU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84562&oldid=84561 * ResU * (+0) /* My esolangs: */
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18:03:11 <esolangs> [[Qoibl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84563&oldid=84551 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+307) Cats/format and clarification (please fix if wrong)
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18:25:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AceKiron * New user account
18:29:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84564&oldid=84515 * AceKiron * (+231)
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18:33:49 <esolangs> [[User:AceKiron]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84565 * AceKiron * (+107) Created page with "15 year/old programmer who made School, an [[esoteric programming language]] soon to be added to this wiki."
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19:00:12 <Sgeo_> Where does the bridge go? Classic Freenode or new Freenode?
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19:18:35 <fizzie> It goes to new right now.
19:18:46 <fizzie> Judging from the fact that I ended up in classic, and I don't see it.
19:19:11 <fizzie> Plus the server it connected to says it's InspIRCd-3, which AIUI is what they switched over to.
19:20:41 <fizzie> I'm pretty puzzled by the continued existence of classic. I got disconnected at around 10am local time, but then (even though I've got it configured as chat.freenode.net, not any specific server) landed on one of the classic servers anyway. And then it's just continued to work. I'd've imagined they'd just terminate all of the old ones.
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19:20:57 <nakilon> 18:19:53 <imode1> nakilon: so why don't you fucking leave here you absolute blind fuck.
19:21:01 <esolangs> <melanophore> is this thing on?
19:21:09 <nakilon> lmao
19:21:21 <esolangs> <melanophore> (this is newleenode)
19:21:26 <fizzie> melanophore: In some sense, yes.
19:21:32 <Taneb> fizzie: there has been at least two freenode classics, fwiw. One with services, one without
19:21:58 <nakilon> your words show you to be the smellest piece of shit I've seen for last few months
19:22:10 <imode> nakilon: shut the fuck up you vile troll.
19:22:13 <nakilon> nice achievent, someone might proud
19:22:15 <imode> back on ignore you go.
19:22:22 <fizzie> Well, I'm in one where I got authenticated, in case that means something. But I imagine it won't be around *much* longer.
19:22:39 <int-e> nakilon: you really need to find a new purpose
19:23:47 <nakilon> int-e new purpose for you?
19:24:30 <int-e> nakilon: no, for yourself. something that doesn't make you insult everyone in sight, because that's treally tiring in the long run.
19:24:50 <nakilon> lol
19:25:00 <nakilon> I "insult everyone in sight?"
19:25:10 <nakilon> wash your mouthes kids, before you talk
19:25:19 <fizzie> Since I'm not planning to register the channel in the new network, I'll probably disable the bridge as well.
19:25:22 <imode> int-e: it's fruitless, someone should just ban him already.
19:25:36 <nakilon> cry more
19:25:40 <imode> his intent is to troll. if he disagreed, he'd stay on freenode and leave everybody alone.
19:25:56 <imode> that hellhole is certainly welcoming to small-minded freaks.
19:25:57 <int-e> "<nakilon> you fucked up your own home <nakilon> shitted and then abandoned it"
19:26:05 <int-e> not exactly choice words
19:26:24 <nakilon> those are facts
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19:26:56 <nakilon> somehow you even feel the need to continue shitting even here
19:27:14 <int-e> Not really, your analogy is seriously flawed. But that's not the point... the point is that it's insulting, it's not going to make anyone switch away from Libera at this point.
19:27:52 <imode> I love the freaks that just jump on to Libera to insult people. yeah, that's why you're not and never will be welcome.
19:28:09 <imode> it's an excuse to jump out of the woodwork and yell at people you don't like.
19:28:25 <imode> go back to your termite-ridden shithole.
19:28:36 <nakilon> I can't care less of where are switched too, which network, but what is obvious here is that the freenode did nothing bad to this channel while you definitely pollute it
19:28:50 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o int-e.
19:28:52 * int-e yawns
19:29:02 -!- int-e has set channel mode: +q $a:nakilon.
19:29:06 -!- int-e has set channel mode: -o int-e.
19:29:16 <imode> saw that comin'.
19:32:56 <fizzie> FWIW I suspect we should probably just drop the whole topic, and I imagine it'll eventually stop coming up naturally. nakilon does talk a lot about actual esolangs stuff, unlike few *actual* trolls we've had over the years. (Not to say I don't think the way they're commenting isn't deliberately insulting.)
19:33:30 <imode> poisoned minds typically regurgitate poison.
19:33:45 <fizzie> Personally I'm kind of more disturbed by the IRCCloud ban than the database wipe. Though I imagine there's some backstory behind there.
19:33:58 <int-e> Yes, we should. But *nakilon* kept bringing up this topic.
19:34:25 <imode> yeah it's not like we antagonized him.
19:34:35 <imode> I even unignored him, thinking he cooled off.
19:34:37 <int-e> imode probably isn't quite innocent because of nick changes (which are visible here even if they're probably primarily for ##freenode)
19:34:49 <imode> int-e: meh, I wasn't participating here in that fashion.
19:35:08 <int-e> other than that... well, the topic does come up simply because freenode is constantly, uhm, evolving
19:35:21 <fizzie> I think as a reaction, mostly, though I certainly haven't fully logread.
19:35:26 <fizzie> 01:52 <oerjan> [..] on the bright side maybe nakilon will finally admit we were right :P
19:35:31 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o int-e.
19:35:36 <fizzie> That's the sort of name-dropping I imagine most people would say *something* to.
19:35:40 -!- int-e has set channel mode: -q $a:nakilon.
19:35:43 -!- int-e has set channel mode: -o int-e.
19:35:44 <imode> true. I do respond when highlighted.
19:36:11 <int-e> I don't actually mind the topic, but the tone and the constant insinuation that everybody is inconsistent and/or stupid is really infuriating
19:36:35 <arseniiv> I don’t like the tone too
19:37:10 <fizzie> Yeah, fair; the topic *is* kind of relevant, since that's where we were, and now we're here.
19:37:54 <int-e> And of course rasengan's recent actions do not in any way improve the outlook of freenode as a viable platform for anything really... things are constantly changing on a whim of rasengan. Maybe he's done changing things now, maybe not, noone knows.
19:38:24 <arseniiv> (offtopic: there was a discussion of free variables on ##math today yay)
19:38:36 <int-e> So yeah... I'm happy we set up camp here early on.
19:39:07 <imode> the problem is you're going to get a larger set of "lee sympathizers" because 1. people enjoy being contrarians/trolling, 2. people haven't kept up with the insanity, but I don't think there's many people who will end up sympathizers after that, or 3. people actually enjoy the culture that lee is trying to bring in, which is some 4chan shit considering l0de is now staff.
19:39:44 <int-e> So... hrm. Should we make it a rule to avoid the topic completely? That may be easier than striving for a civil tone.
19:39:46 <imode> my point is.. the useful, constructive conversation moved and left a vacuum for a lot of horrible conversation.
19:39:59 <imode> probably for the time being, yes.
19:40:13 <imode> if you want it you can go to ##freenode on this network, which will let you shitpost until your eyes bleed.
19:42:09 <fizzie> Well, before we stop talking about it completely, what's the consensus on the bridge and logs.esolangs.org, should I just call it a day and drop the new-freenode 'esowiki' bot? The nickname is now unregistered, the channel is unregistered, and even before all this latest I don't think there were more than one or two actual bridged conversations...
19:42:30 <int-e> I'm in favor of dropping it, fwiw.
19:42:56 <imode> same.
19:43:14 <imode> it'd be one thing if there was a presence on the network, but.. everybody is here now.
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19:44:28 <fizzie> Heh, I was going to say "OTOH, there's still X users on the old-freenode #esoteric who might land in there", but looks like I *finally* got disconnected from there.
19:45:54 <nakilon> 22:33:58 <int-e> Yes, we should. But *nakilon* kept bringing up this topic. -- this is a lie; I opened chat in the morning and the only talk here was you guys about what happened to freenode services, I left my opinion and went to the city, and when I came back I read about myself "you fucking leave here you absolute blind fuck" and now even
19:45:54 <nakilon> "small-minded freaks -- is it how the "22:34:25 <imode> yeah it's not like we antagonized him." look like or rather "you're not and never will be welcome."? and btw how doesn't "22:29:16 <imode> saw that comin'" look like a "intent is to troll."? must be my weak English understanding, right? lol -- it's actually you who bring the news about
19:45:54 <nakilon> rasengan again and again, I don't even follow, just read randomly onlyfrom this channel, you are the source -- I can'r "drop the topic" because you ARE purposefully create a flame here and your behaviour and personal insults on me are placing absolutely far away from being considered any minimally worth to be respected random internet stranger
19:46:24 <int-e> fizzie: 15 nicks
19:46:36 <nakilon> I'm being insulted and falsely accused
19:46:40 <int-e> fizzie: including hackeso
19:47:19 <fizzie> Hmm, my bouncer's not managing to connect to the new thing. "tls_handshake: handshake failed: unexpected EOF"
19:47:35 <int-e> nakilon: seriously, take it to ##freenode, they'll be happy to rip you apart
19:48:11 <nakilon> serioudly go get a room with imode
19:48:29 <nakilon> it's not his first and not even second try to create a flame about me
19:50:25 <int-e> fizzie: they have trouble with IPv6, could that be an issue?
19:50:32 <imode> I wouldn't be surprised if SSL is just like, not enabled on the new infra.
19:50:34 <myname> x)
19:50:54 <myname> "let's close down the old server and replace them with untested shit"
19:51:05 <imode> par for the course
19:51:20 <fizzie> Maybe it doesn't like my client certificate, now that it's unregistered. Though that sounds unlikely too.
19:51:47 <fizzie> Ten minutes earlier it was failing with "server does not support sasl" instead.
19:52:04 <int-e> nakilon: Sorry, but it's really not our fault that you chose rasengan's hill to die on, on the Libera network of all places.
19:52:05 <fizzie> But in the interests of fairness, this bouncer (pounce) is probably the most opinionated client there is.
19:52:15 <imode> he's still going lmao.
19:52:19 <int-e> fizzie: sasl not working is less of a surprise
19:52:41 <nakilon> i don't care about rasengar or whoever, it's your drama
19:52:45 <int-e> fizzie: since you won't be registered? oh maybe you are.
19:52:54 <nakilon> that you are so mad about someone to not agree iwth you about
19:53:42 <myname> "someone to not agree with you about" is not what you do
19:53:55 <myname> you don't disagree, you insult people for making choices
19:54:54 <fizzie> int-e: Oh, right, good point. Though in a perfect world the message for that would not be "does not support sasl" but something else.
19:55:56 <Sgeo> Even if the takeover was entirely legitimate, the current behavior and sheer incompetence of the people operating Freenode is terrifying.
19:56:17 <Sgeo> ...I hit send on accident >.> didn't think I should have sent that
19:56:29 <imode> heh.
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19:56:43 <imode> I don't think you'll find dissenting opinions in this channel.
19:56:53 <fizzie> Well, good excuse to see how frustrated I get trying to reconfigure things on a phone.
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19:58:11 <nakilon> it's like if I was an admin at some company and then I disliked the CEO and left, leaving servers/software to fall apart and then say "ahaha, see? it's all broken because of you"
19:58:56 <myname> uhm, you do realize they could have just not changed the server software?
19:58:57 <int-e> nakilon: you really can't drop it, can you?
19:59:25 <myname> they _actively_ switched to a software which configuration they obviously did not test very well
19:59:40 <imode> why are you bothering to pay attention to an obvious bait.
19:59:50 <nakilon> int-e ask those who can't drop it, not me
19:59:51 <spruit11> this conversation is starting to bother me
20:00:41 <nakilon> I was just respoinding to Sgeo
20:01:58 <Corbin> nakilon: Maybe modify your feelings?
20:02:18 <pikhq> nakilon: i mean, if a company can be taken down by a single sysadmin leaving, it is in fact the ceo's fault when the sysadmin leaves and it all breaks. that's how "being in charge" works
20:02:42 <pikhq> that's a well-known risk of poor management decisions that effective leaders try to mitigate
20:03:04 <pikhq> tho i should probably drop the subject
20:03:05 <Sgeo> They took over channels en mass based on topic then claimed that some of those were by accident. They could have... not done that, or done better filtering, or manually reviewed, or backed up channel settings. They banned a popular web-based IRC client.
20:03:12 <pikhq> i don't think there's anything productive to be said here
20:03:14 <nakilon> here not just one sysdaimn has left though but a half or most of staff AFAIK
20:03:37 <riv> minecraft time
20:03:38 <pikhq> even so
20:03:47 <nakilon> and people are keeping judging what happends without any real knowledge
20:04:55 <nakilon> "23:03:05 <Sgeo> They took over channels en mass based on topic" -- this is a lie people keep repeating purposefully not saying that there was an apology and a message that that was a script error
20:05:12 <myname> nakilon: all the staff said upfront that they will leave if andrew acts like he did. he acted so nontheless. it's his fault.
20:05:14 <nakilon> oh I read you further, sry
20:05:20 <myname> also, afaik _all_ the staff left
20:05:47 <Corbin> Also also, the staff were volunteers, not full-time employees.
20:06:14 <nakilon> "they will leave if andrew acts like" he acted AFTER that? that makes no sense
20:06:15 <riv> a script error?
20:06:18 <Corbin> nakilon: But seriously, why don't you just...stop caring so much about it?
20:06:20 <riv> it did happen
20:06:30 <riv> even if they claim there was a script error, it still happened
20:06:37 <myname> nakilon: you do know what "upfront" means?
20:06:45 <riv> it's not correct to say that it didn't happen just because they apologized for it afterwards
20:07:22 <nakilon> it was a malfunction of a network caused by their act of leaving and leaving it falling apart
20:07:24 <myname> riv: a script "error" they didn't test well enough, server switches to ircds they didn't test well enough ...
20:07:35 <Corbin> pikhq: FWIW I think that noting that this conversation is unproductive is a positive contribution.
20:07:56 <myname> it was a a malfunction that all staffers told him upfront, yet he chose to go that path
20:08:05 <sknebel> can you please have this discussion in some off-topic channel and not here?
20:11:17 <fizzie> int-e: I don't know, maybe my reconnects (after the SASL failures) tripped a filter of some sort, I'm getting a flat disconnect for "openssl s_client -connect ..." as well on the machine I run IRC on, but not at home. Maybe that's a sign to just give it up.
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20:27:55 <riv> new metroid game looks cool
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20:30:10 <fizzie> Why did I just get this idea that there was a game where you had like a peripheral you programmed in Befunge? A puzzle game, or maybe an adventure one... Did I just have a weird dream or something?
20:31:18 <myname> spacechem?
20:31:26 <imode> riv: YESSSSS.
20:31:36 <imode> I did my waiting. 20 years of it.
20:33:00 <fizzie> Not SpaceChem, this was like a smartwatch or something that you wrote little programs for, and it wasn't the main game mechanic, just a little side thing.
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20:33:17 <fizzie> I think it probably doesn't exist and I just made it up.
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20:33:53 <myname> i so wish there were interesting smartwatch games
20:34:11 <riv> 20 years :D
20:34:20 <nakilon> "programming peripheral" only associate with Shenzhen for me
20:34:45 <imode> fizzie: that sounds like a neat idea for something like cogmind.
20:34:48 <riv> there is a befunge like programming game on steam, but its not liek what you're describing
20:35:04 <nakilon> is there a web server extension for befunge? you could make a website in befunge about ebfunge
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20:35:47 <fizzie> I think https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Programming_games are all games where the programming is the main "gameplay" element, not games of other genres with a programming aspect to them.
20:36:12 <fizzie> I think there was an Apache module for Befunge?
20:37:25 <riv> I like the systems in modded minecraft
20:37:34 <fizzie> Not having much luck on the Googles though, so maybe I'm mixing it up with the Brainfuck one.
20:37:36 <riv> you have 3 types of tubes: power, items, fluids
20:37:40 <nakilon> https://www.reddit.com/r/programminggames/
20:37:41 <riv> and blocks have 6 sides
20:37:49 <riv> you can do a lot with that
20:38:23 <fizzie> Yeah, http://modbf.sourceforge.net/ is a thing but mod_bef doesn't seem to be.
20:38:31 <imode> does LambdaMOO count as a programming game?
20:41:06 <Taneb> fizzie: that game does sound familiar for some reason
20:44:43 <Sgeo> I have an entire fictional universe in my head based on LambdaMOO, where some wizard early on forced the entire universe to obey a "contact rule", unable to modify anything not in the same room as them, to stop the constant conflict. There's still conflict, with wizards who manage to get in contact with things like $room or #1 or #0 being powerful, with groups escaping the inheritance hierarchy, etc
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20:45:34 <imode> now _that's_ some lore I can ge behind.
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20:48:22 <fizzie> Taneb: I think I'm maybe mixing a little of Fallout's Pip-Boy into this thing, but I think that's not programmable.
20:48:32 <Sgeo> Most rooms by default do not allow teleport, but it's easy to change a room so it does. When this happens, some groups that try to scan the universe for such rooms will teleport in and tend to take over the area
20:49:30 <Sgeo> Usually it would happen just because someone got curious about it and hadn't heard of what happens when teleport is enabled for all. Eventually the Witch of Space (the wizard who has controlled $room for some time) set up a system to detect attempts to open rooms and warn whoever did it about the potential consequences
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20:49:52 <Sgeo> Oh, I.. really do need to stop stealing names from other works of fiction
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20:51:09 <oerjan> Witch of Plagiation
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20:52:16 <oerjan> *rism
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20:54:52 <fizzie> Taneb: Other games I might have been thinking of are Hack 'n' Slash, and Else Heart.Break().
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20:59:22 <sknebel> what is LambdaMOO?
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21:10:13 <Sgeo> Are you familiar with MUSH or MUD? If so, it's an old one of those except with a prototype based object-oriented language. If not, it's basically a text based multiuser environment
21:10:26 <sknebel> thx
21:11:15 <riv> you can program the behavior of objects inside the moo?
21:11:19 <riv> like second life?
21:11:36 <Sgeo> Yep
21:12:45 <Sgeo> And the programming language is iirc much more pleasant than in MUSH
21:17:47 <riv> OK
21:17:49 <riv> this is cool!
21:17:51 <zzo38> There is also ifMUD, which doesn't have object prototypes though. You can though set permission (although all or nothing; you can't set per group or per field or whatever) for reading, teleporting, and some others
21:17:57 <riv> Are peoplee making interesting things in it
21:18:19 <riv> can you put two objects together and they pass data between each other
21:19:01 <fizzie> Heh, I've sort of always assumed (for no particular reason) the "lambda" in the name has some relationship to lambda calculus, but I guess it doesn't.
21:20:15 <riv> i wonder how it implements programming languages
21:20:28 <riv> > It is the oldest MOO today
21:20:30 <lambdabot> error:
21:20:30 <lambdabot> • Data constructor not in scope:
21:20:30 <lambdabot> It :: t0 -> t1 -> t2 -> t3 -> t4 -> t
21:20:47 <zzo38> I am #20071 on ifMUD
21:20:54 <riv> what does that mean?
21:20:56 <myname> i heard hellmoo is fun
21:21:27 <riv> is it better to use telnet or a mud client?
21:21:56 <zzo38> You could use either
21:22:14 <riv> OK, telnet
21:22:18 <riv> telnet lambda.moo.mud.org 8888
21:23:40 <Sgeo> Every time I read about LambdaMOO, I have to change my story to match its programming better. When I learned how #0 allows overriding builtin functions, that makes... implementing the contact rule too easy. I had it basically be a massive rootkit that ended up with a few holes, but implementation via #0 is too thorough
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21:28:54 <riv> what?
21:29:02 <riv> how do I use an item that I have?
21:29:31 <riv> did you break lambdamoo using #0
21:29:33 <riv> ?
21:31:53 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_in_Cyberspace Mr. Bungle, who leveraged a "voodoo doll" subprogram that allowed him to make actions that were falsely attributed to other characters in the virtual community
21:33:24 <Sgeo> I'm referring to the fictional world in my head loosely based on a universe similar to MOO software
21:33:52 <riv> wow!
21:34:10 <riv> I want to know more about that
21:34:25 <riv> i've stopped playing lambdamoo https://bpa.st/GWBQ
21:34:32 <riv> his frustrated me
21:35:48 <Sgeo> Try @examine
21:36:05 <Sgeo> @ means more of a meta command, without means more of a roleplay command
21:36:12 <Sgeo> approximately
21:36:13 <Sgeo> iirc
21:36:56 <riv> thanks
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21:37:07 <Sgeo> <verb> <obj1> <pronoun> <obj2> is the general format of commands
21:37:19 <Sgeo> err preposition not pronoun
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21:57:27 <salpynx> There's a book 'My Tiny Life.' about the LambdaMOO incident, and the MOO community generally. It's good from memory. (I have a copy somewhere)
21:57:43 <nakilon> this log looks like ai dungeon
22:13:06 <salpynx> The book is broader in scope than that one incident and article. I recommend it to anyone interested in early online networked communities and crossovers to RL. It covers positive and negative aspects, and is notable as an early document of that sort of community. And LambdaMOO was a neat thing.
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22:15:44 <riv> salpynx, !
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23:36:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84566&oldid=84560 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+66) /* Examples: */ Xats,
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