00:05:22 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85618&oldid=85543 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Grammar */ 00:06:41 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85619&oldid=85618 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Grammar */ 00:08:28 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85620&oldid=85619 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Grammar */ 00:12:59 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85621&oldid=85620 * PixelatedStarfish * (+6) /* Grammar */ 00:30:55 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:46:23 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to hflotmnaugh. 01:16:53 -!- richbridger has joined. 01:18:01 -!- aquijoule_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:30:53 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85622&oldid=85621 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Grammar */ 02:32:34 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85623&oldid=85622 * PixelatedStarfish * (+16) 02:33:48 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85624&oldid=85623 * PixelatedStarfish * (+10) 02:36:48 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85625&oldid=85624 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* The grid */ 02:45:59 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85626&oldid=85625 * PixelatedStarfish * (+19) /* Restrictions */ 02:46:26 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85627&oldid=85626 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* Permitted */ 02:54:44 -!- spirgel has joined. 03:10:53 -!- jryans has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 03:10:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 03:10:54 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:16 -!- jryans has joined. 03:21:38 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:21:50 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 03:33:26 -!- jryans has quit (Quit: node-irc says goodbye). 03:37:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: node-irc says goodbye). 03:46:58 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (Quit: node-irc says goodbye). 05:42:31 Why doesn't Wikipedia use data templates for comparison tables? Entering the tables directly makes it much more difficult to edit, I think. 05:50:26 Cannot wait for Wikifunctions to be a thing. 05:50:42 wikifunctions? 05:51:26 The official name for "Abstract Wikipedia". The core idea is to use Wikidata to fill in templates for many different pages. 05:56:31 I meant just using the standard template feature, but that can work too I suppose 06:35:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:47:15 -!- spirgel_ has joined. 06:50:07 -!- spirgel has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:50:18 -!- tromp has joined. 07:25:43 -!- jryans has joined. 07:32:44 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:32:56 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 07:45:43 -!- jryans has quit (Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000). 07:49:04 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_arithmetic#Arithmetic_undefinability 07:49:19 -!- jryans has joined. 07:49:21 I didn't expect posts theorem to come up here, very interesting 07:49:47 I recently studied the 'uniform' halting problem and how a uniform halting oracle is stronger than a halting oracle 07:49:55 which is I guess a special case of posts theorem 07:51:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000). 07:52:54 people in #math keep talking about godels theorem, in particular the idea that the godel sentence is 'true' [in fuzzy terms] but unprovable 07:53:00 and its making me doubt things 07:53:09 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:53:35 im not sure why the topic keeps coming up 07:54:02 but it seems kind of like nonsense. you can adjoin G or you can adjoin ~G.. 07:54:27 i thought there was no standard model of arithmetic but I need to read more on true arithmetic 07:56:19 What is the uniform halting problem? 07:57:02 It's maybe kind of nonsense but you can kind of see what they're getting at too, right? 07:58:01 I understand it but i don't like it 07:58:39 uniform halting problem is "does this turing machine halt on all inputs" 07:58:44 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:58:47 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:58:56 -!- jryans has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:14 a halting oracle can't construct this 08:00:15 -!- jryans has joined. 08:01:03 Makes sense. 08:01:12 -!- Deewiant has joined. 08:01:17 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:01:24 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 08:06:39 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:57 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:18:16 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 08:19:03 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:19:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:20:06 -!- jryans has quit (Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000). 08:24:39 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…). 11:22:26 [[1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85628&oldid=85616 * AmNow * (+0) modified commands 11:40:29 -!- hanif has joined. 11:53:37 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:11:42 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Oshaboy * uploaded "[[File:Truth machine StegFuck.png]]" 12:12:09 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85630&oldid=85354 * Oshaboy * (+56) Added StegFuck 12:14:58 -!- spirgel has quit. 12:30:52 -!- arseniiv has joined. 12:34:05 [[Decision shrub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85631&oldid=79114 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* See also */ m 13:05:18 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:05:31 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:05:32 -!- perlbot has joined. 13:07:53 [[Fumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85632&oldid=47167 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+102) /* Example programs */ Cat 13:15:14 -!- tromp has joined. 13:15:45 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:16:49 fungot, which spelling is correct in English, "flamingos" or "flamingoes"? 13:16:49 wib_jonas: a few do. at least now atm i'm wondering how would a flex file look for, just a 13:20:13 fungot: Are you trying to write natural language processing code using Flex again? 13:20:14 fizzie: they kill each other on what would be the small circle of elites while common lisp would handle reader macros. 13:35:29 [[JBFM7L]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85633&oldid=85577 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) /* External links */ chats 13:45:28 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:47:16 -!- hanif has joined. 14:02:31 [[DDDD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85634 * Andrew3335 * (+773) Created page with "'''DDDD''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] whose only data structure is a single [[deque]]. It was created by [[User:Andrew3335]] in 2021 and is intended to be used fo..." 14:03:23 -!- arseniiv has joined. 14:06:07 -!- archenoth has joined. 14:46:23 [[School]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85635&oldid=84797 * AceKiron * (+18) 14:59:00 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 15:03:22 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 15:08:51 [[Ascii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85636 * Rphii * (+5486) created 15:10:06 [[User:Rphii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85637&oldid=85557 * Rphii * (+56) 15:10:33 -!- hendursaga has joined. 15:15:17 [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85638&oldid=85636 * Rphii * (+16) /* Loop, if and invert */ small clarification 15:15:59 [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85639&oldid=85638 * Rphii * (+3) /* Loop, if and invert */ grammar 15:19:06 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:20:39 -!- cd has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:41:20 [[StegFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85640&oldid=83462 * Oshaboy * (+50) 15:41:39 [[StegFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85641&oldid=85640 * Oshaboy * (+2) 15:47:52 -!- tromp has joined. 15:49:49 [[Braincopter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85642&oldid=35650 * Oshaboy * (+107) Halting condition clarification 16:02:03 [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85643&oldid=85639 * Rphii * (+4) /* Instructions */ 16:04:46 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85644&oldid=85271 * Tomhe * (+138) /* See Also */ categories 16:05:43 [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85645&oldid=85643 * Rphii * (+13) clarification 16:06:20 [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85646&oldid=85645 * Rphii * (+1) /* Variables */ typo 16:11:39 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:18:18 fungot, what's the difference between "deburr" and "dechaff" (verbs) 16:18:18 b_jonas: is rfc 1459 the client one?) 16:28:55 no, 2812 is the client one 16:34:15 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:36:28 Yeah, 1459 is just "the one", it was all in one for that. 16:51:01 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85647&oldid=85612 * Rphii * (+14) /* A */ add Ascii 16:58:03 -!- tromp has joined. 16:59:44 -!- hanif has joined. 17:02:18 -!- riv has joined. 17:08:31 hi 17:22:12 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:32:38 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:47:47 -!- hanif has joined. 17:49:22 -!- tromp has joined. 18:01:19 arseniiv was it you with a love to procedural generation? I like this one https://www.reddit.com/r/generative/comments/oc8vud/confined_3d_noise_rotation_on_a_grid/ 18:01:28 riv hi 18:02:11 hey 18:02:16 did anyone want to talk about uniform halting? 18:02:32 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:02:56 rfc documents have some standartized format, I wonder if it's possible to process them enough to make some Q/A system for quick referencing via a bot 18:05:41 judging from how google and yandex already provide snippets I guess google could give the answers to questions like "what are the field of Atom item?", "what is BNF of IRCv3 tag? 18:05:44 " 18:06:00 *fields 18:07:15 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:11:35 -!- hanif has joined. 18:12:50 nakilon: strange, interesting 18:14:41 the next cyberpunk movie should have such paintings on the walls 18:14:54 I would buy one... oh with an ability to edit it! 18:15:14 google is very good 18:15:33 I sometimes want to use man pages, but i find it so difficult to find what i want to know and i give up and google works better 18:15:44 I think that all man pages should be processed and searchable by something like google 18:15:50 locally 18:18:20 -!- tromp has joined. 18:28:23 The proof of rices theorem is surprisingly involved 18:28:54 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:29:19 hi riv. nice to see you're interested in the uniform halting problem (you used to be rain1, right?) 18:29:45 -!- tromp has joined. 18:30:00 yes 18:30:25 *still interested 18:30:40 are you still following soare's book? 18:31:15 i haven't studied it since last time, 18:40:17 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:42:08 man page suck 18:42:16 that's what I learned about linux the first 18:43:33 what you are looking for is either in 1 page long --help, or is undocumented and only one person on the planet knows it but didn't yet write it anywhere 18:45:38 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:04:17 man pages are btw indexed by google, the sse64 website or something like that 19:08:06 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:12:03 -!- tromp has joined. 19:19:36 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:31:50 -!- Thelie has joined. 19:37:16 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:43:22 -!- riv has joined. 19:46:42 -!- MrAureliusR has quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in). 19:47:45 -!- MrAureliusR has joined. 19:57:01 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1). 20:00:43 -!- dutch has joined. 20:05:01 -!- tromp has joined. 20:26:35 [[Talk:Movesum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85648&oldid=84189 * Bangyen * (+164) /* Are integers signed or unsigned? */ 20:34:41 [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85649&oldid=85644 * Tomhe * (+0) /* Flipping a whole word */ 20:36:50 [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85650&oldid=85649 * Tomhe * (+0) /* Segments & Reserve */ 20:43:51 I think some programs have their own numbers to indicate cryptographic hash algorithms. (Some programs use names instead of numbers.) I use the multicodec numbers in all of my new stuff. Hopefully, this will allow interoperability with different programs, too. 20:44:18 how do you expect it to allow interoperability? 20:45:06 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85651&oldid=85650 * Tomhe * (+135) /* Memory - how can we implement variables? */ - better explained 20:45:56 For one thing, with file formats. If a file format uses a number to indicate a hash algorithm, and the multicodec numbers are used, then when new hashes are added, everyone can agree what numbers to use for what hash algorithm. Other thing, if somehow a number needs to be passed from one library or program to another, you do not need to use a translation table. 20:46:02 [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85652&oldid=85651 * Tomhe * (+6) /* Output */ typo 20:47:26 Different libraries might have their own names for constants, although if multicodec numbers are used then the values of these constants will match. For example, I have a library with FOSIMP_SHA1, FOSIMP_SHA3_256, and FOSIMP_MD5. FOSIMP_SHA1 is defined as 0x11, and any other program that uses multicodec numbers will (if it supports SHA-1 hashes at all, which it might not) also use 0x11. 20:48:26 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85653&oldid=85652 * Tomhe * (-3) /* Input */ 20:49:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_arithmetic#Arithmetic_undefinability i am curious to learn about this 20:50:02 zzo38, why not just use sha256 20:50:15 and no need to specify which hash. always sha256 20:52:16 riv: For one thing, some things require different hashes. (Specifically, Fossil doesn't use SHA2-256; it uses the three hashes I mentioned.) 20:52:18 riv: because cryptographic hashes only live for like twelve years usually, so that only works if your software's lifetime is shorter than that 20:52:46 hmm 20:52:48 riv: if truth were definable, then we could find a fixed point of f |-> not True(f), which would satisfy [f] <--> not True(f) <--> not [f]. 20:52:55 :O 20:53:00 1 liner! 20:53:20 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:53:31 riv: Well, taking all the machinery of Gödel and others for granted. 20:54:26 (It does not use MD5 to identify anything, but only as an extra verification. Still, for the interfaces which calculate the hashes and identify the algorithm used in hashes that are already computed, it helps to specify these things. Specifically, they are the first argument of the fosimp_hash and fosimp_hash_stream functions, and the last argument of fosimp_set_hash.) 20:55:09 riv: still, that's the core proof idea. 20:55:11 Also, the fosimp_hash_stream function allows defining an echo stream. I don't know which (if any) other hashing libraries include such a capability. 20:58:02 riv: ret-conned corollary: Since provability is definable, it can't coincide with Truth, hence PA is incomplete. ;-) 20:58:41 very very nice 21:00:53 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:37:31 I think that truth may be partially definable, although not entirely. 21:52:30 truth implies provability 21:52:50 but i don't really understand this true arithmetic thing 21:53:03 maybe it's a set that is singled out using second order logic 21:57:34 -!- cd has joined. 22:07:13 riv: "truth" is understood with respect to the standard model of PA (which you can construct in your favorite set theory... so it's really not an arbitrary model of PA. The notion /may/ still be relative to the model of set theory... it's confusing.) 22:07:55 ah/,. 22:08:00 riv: And truth (in a fixed model) doesn't imply provability, that's the whole point of incompleteness. 22:08:25 oh i meant the other way around 22:09:17 Ah. That makes more sense (it's soundness of the formal system.) 22:09:54 -!- Corbin_ has joined. 22:10:22 I think that provability implies truth, but truth does not imply provability (the truth of some statement might be unprovable or even undefined). 22:10:44 -!- Corbin has quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Corbin_))). 22:10:49 -!- Corbin_ has changed nick to Corbin. 22:11:51 I had defined true as: if a set S of true statements are assumed to be theorems and from that (and the rest of the system) you can prove X, then X is true. 22:12:26 There may be statements whose truth is unknown or unprovable; just because the previous definition does not make a statement true does not necessarily mean it isn't true; its truth could be undefined instead. 22:15:22 Also, true and false are not necessarily mutually exclusive (although they will be if the system is consistent), since I will define false as: if you have a true statement X and another statement Y, and from X and Y you can prove all well-formed statements, then Y is false. 22:16:05 (Again, whether or not a statement is false might be undecidable or even undefined, just as whether or not a statement is true.) 22:16:50 Does that make sense? 23:42:01 -!- hflotmnaugh has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 23:44:37 [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85654&oldid=85646 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+69) cats 23:52:03 -!- nakilon has quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat).