←2021-07-27 2021-07-28 2021-07-29→ ↑2021 ↑all
00:11:29 <oren> god damn it pedro
00:12:43 <nakilon> his username is 64 chars long, can you believe it
00:14:00 <int-e> eww
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00:35:18 <oerjan> <int-e> fungot: Which loopy type are you? Left (likes to prove uniqueness) or right (exploits uniqueness)? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/uloopy.png <-- eep. definitely left.
00:35:18 <fungot> oerjan: what is stalin?. i don't even know how to fix that stupid fnord. i'v define a hash function h: k z/ m ( which means that you have a while() instruction
00:35:40 <oerjan> fungot: i was _not_ playing jeopardy, but nice try
00:35:40 <fungot> oerjan: that paper about feeley's operators. fun fun fun. :) i do need to put our weight behind supporting an esolang.
00:36:15 <int-e> oerjan: I'm the same, but I can appreciate that the right way (hah) would be faster.
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00:37:16 <int-e> (I do consider these things though when trying to decide which of two options to attempt to refute first)
00:37:41 <oerjan> although i _may_ on occasion exploit uniqueness to determine ... right what you said
00:38:11 <oerjan> although not very often in practice
00:40:49 <oerjan> <int-e> I usually start over when I find a mistake unless it was a very recent one (so I can pinpoint where I went wrong, exactly) <-- i've been known to backtrack all the way to the beginning because i _missed_ where i made a mistake, and then go forward again until i find it.
00:42:30 <oerjan> if i still fail, i may be frustrated enough to just close the puzzle.
00:43:26 <oerjan> (also, usually when that backward/forward thing happens, it turns out the mistake was near the end.)
00:43:28 <int-e> sensible, this is all a huge waste of time :P ;) :-/
00:45:03 <int-e> I'm still refining patterns... learning how to account for nodes with degree larger than 4 was a challenge (more so than smaller degrees or having regions with more than 4 sides)
00:46:04 <oerjan> Maybebat reminds that i was out watching bats on the lawn a while ago, there were at least 4 of them
00:46:08 <oerjan> *reminds me
00:47:06 <int-e> context... oh, 8 hours ago...
00:47:21 <oerjan> the context wasn't really important in this case
00:47:26 <oerjan> sorry
00:47:32 <int-e> that's fine :)
00:48:00 <int-e> (yes, it confused me, but that happens all the time anyway)
00:48:25 <int-e> I don't recall ever seeing a bat in nature...
00:48:43 <int-e> I occasionally meet hedgehogs when walking outside at night
00:51:17 <oerjan> i also meet hedgehogs, although not as often as bats
00:51:50 <oerjan> i actually only saw a hedgehog twice this year
00:52:16 <oerjan> the other day i saw a badger. they supposedly eat hedgehogs.
00:52:54 <oerjan> (the badger was running across a heavily trafficed road, which is a bit unusual.
00:52:57 <oerjan> )
00:53:24 <fizzie> I used to see a hedgehog from the window of the previous flat, but can't see any from here. :/
00:53:31 <oerjan> last year i saw many more hedgehogs, but i also spent a lot more time outside because i was having that long internet break
00:53:40 <fizzie> There's been a fox skulking around the streetwalk for the three previous nights though.
00:54:01 <oerjan> i've seen foxes run along the railway just below the lawn
00:54:19 <fizzie> Oh, yes, they do also use the railways.
00:54:55 <fizzie> Queenstown Road station has one disused platform (it's all overgrown, and says "do not alight here"), and there was a fox curled up on the platform quite often when I was still commuting.
00:56:06 <int-e> Hmm apparently there is a bat colony a couple of miles away... but probably still too far to be a common sight for me. But who knows, maybe I'm just not paying attention.
00:56:07 <oerjan> it was only last year that i even noticed there _were_ bats in trondheim, i wonder if they've immigrated recently.
00:56:41 <fizzie> I imagine bats can be pretty stealthy.
00:57:00 <int-e> It's a city with few ruins/old buildings... not a great area for bats.
00:57:46 <int-e> (The colony is a city-owned church; they deliberately left the habitat intact rather than renovating it all)
01:01:13 <fizzie> I don't think London's particularly renowed for bats either.
01:01:47 <fizzie> Think there's a dedicated bat tower in the wetland centre a little that way though.
01:02:50 <fizzie> "The nocturnal habits of bats make them intrinsically difficult for human observers to study. In Greater London, those interested in discovering more on the ecology and conservation status of bats face additional obstacles." That's what Richard from the London Bat Group says.
01:02:55 <oerjan> i don't know about towers here, i sort of assumed they rested in the nearby forest but maybe bats don't like that
01:02:56 <fizzie> Just to be clear, I think the London Bat Group is a group of *people* interested in bats, not a group of bats.
01:03:11 <oerjan> good clarification
01:03:13 <keegan> we can't stop here............ this is bat country
01:06:39 <oerjan> the time of the year when i see bats is pretty much the time of the year when it doesn't _get_ really dark here, from just after sunset or so.
01:07:02 <fizzie> The brown long-eared bat is brown, and has long ears.
01:08:22 <oerjan> the ones i see look pretty black, also small. i haven't seen them clearly enough to check for ears.
01:10:01 <nakilon> also it is a bat probably
01:10:27 <int-e> oerjan: that twilight aspect makes a lot of sense
01:11:10 <nakilon> it's the same about some bird, such swallows
01:11:19 <oerjan> nakilon: they flutter in a way no birds seem to do (well, around here.)
01:11:33 <nakilon> in the evening they start doing parties in yards
01:12:11 <oerjan> there are swallows too, which are easy to see right _before_ sunset. and occasionally a little later, competing with the bats.
01:12:18 <nakilon> I was told it's because the temperature and/or pressure makes insects, such as mosquitos activate and fly low so they hunt them
01:12:40 <nakilon> oerjan that was a joke to the last fizzie's statement
01:13:05 <oerjan> it is possible the bats start a little before too.
01:13:09 <nakilon> *birds, such as swallows
01:13:53 <nakilon> I also was told when the swallows fly around if you throw a stone in the air it will try to eat it and kill itself
01:13:57 <nakilon> didn't try though
01:14:26 <oerjan> i haven't heard that one
01:16:16 <oerjan> also, "swallow" is a rough term here, they might technically be one of the other kinds of similar looking birds which i learned existed from wikipedia.
01:16:26 <oerjan> *one or more
01:16:38 <oerjan> but the bats are definitely different.
01:22:30 <nakilon> > Our observations are consistent with the hypothesis that flight activity of bats is constrained by predation in bright light, and that crepuscular insects exploit this constraint by swarming near to sunset/sunrise to minimize predation from bats.
01:22:32 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:74: error: parse error on input ‘of’
01:22:36 <nakilon> https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.172303
01:29:15 <Sgeo> Windows96.net exists. Reminds me of YouOS.
01:31:06 <int-e> No windows69.net though
01:32:43 <nakilon> btw about the sun
01:32:51 <nakilon> I've just observed the sunrise from the first second
01:33:38 <nakilon> the sun isn't yet fully shown, since it's 2 min per disc but it's going not vertically but 60 degrees to the right
01:34:20 <nakilon> it's cool how it's possible to see where the sun will appear from the light pink spot on the sky right above a minute before it
01:34:32 <oren> yeah the sun only rises straight up if you live on the equator
01:35:51 <nakilon> now it's fully up
01:37:29 <zzo38> Between the tropics the Sun can go directly above (zenith)
01:37:40 <zzo38> (Although, I have not seen it myself; I have not been there)
01:41:48 <nakilon> it's when the shadows disappear?
01:42:56 <Sgeo> Windows96 has developer documentation. YouOS had developer documentation. Is Windows93 documented for people to make their own mini apps?
01:49:59 <int-e> oren: well, anywhere in the tropics, depending on the time of year
01:52:40 <nakilon> I guess it's wrong
01:53:36 <nakilon> if you aren'y on equator the sun rises with the angle no matter which time of year it is
01:54:19 <int-e> nah, it'll rise vertically at equinox
01:54:33 <zzo38> In the tropic of Cancer, it will zenith if the ecliptic longitude is 0 Cancer, and similarly for Capricorn. The declination will then be the tropics, too. When the Sun zeniths then it will be called cruel solar noon
01:54:41 <nakilon> the black lines on the (3) part of this picture: https://i.imgur.com/Eec618c.png
01:54:44 <int-e> it won't rise due east though, it'll be off by 23.4 degrees
01:55:22 <int-e> (so that's the dimension where the earth's inclination goes)
01:55:44 <zzo38> At the equinox, it willb e zenith at the equator
01:55:56 <int-e> zzo38: only at noon
01:56:10 <zzo38> Yes, only at noon
01:57:01 <int-e> (it's relevant nonetheless; in first approximation the sun's patht that day will be a great circle through the zenith, so it'll hit the horizon at a right angle)
01:57:56 <nakilon> at equinox it will only be rising and falling on the opposite points on the horizons, the angle will not be vertical if you aren't on equator
01:58:44 <nakilon> the time of year does not change the angle, it only shifts the sun path circle
01:59:25 <int-e> nakilon: Note that we have connected "sun reaches zenith" to "sun rises vertically" so that happens in all the tropics
01:59:48 <int-e> so no, "<nakilon> if you aren'y on equator the sun rises with the angle no matter which time of year it is" isn't right
02:00:18 <nakilon> there is no connection between ability of the sun to reach the very top point above your head and rising vertically
02:00:49 <int-e> Of course there is.
02:01:38 <nakilon> there is no. at equator it always rises vertically but reached the top only in spring and winter
02:01:47 <nakilon> *reaches
02:02:15 <nakilon> and at tropics it's always angled but reached the top once a year
02:02:51 <nakilon> *reaches
02:04:00 <oerjan> int-e: i am not sure you are correct about the great circle thing
02:05:02 <oerjan> zenith means the sun is direct overhead, but if you're not on the equator that is _not_ a spot on the celestial equator that the sky revolves along
02:05:10 <int-e> Yeah I am picturing this wrong.
02:07:25 <oerjan> although i don't have a clear enough picture to tell if nakilon is right either
02:08:25 <nakilon> there was someone here who had a course of astronomy
02:09:29 <oren> the sun doesn't move in a great circle in the sky
02:09:53 <oren> it only moves in a great circle on the equinox
02:09:54 <int-e> Okay, nakilon is right; the point is that the projection of tghe pole (astronomical north/south) is the center of the circle, and that needs to be on the horizon. Sigh.
02:10:05 <zzo38> Maybe you can try to calculate it using some software, you can convert ecliptic or equatorial coordinates to horizontal coordinates and plot the result (I think Astrolog might be able to do this)
02:10:43 <int-e> (the "circle" being the virtual trajectory of the Sun)
02:10:45 <nakilon> at equinox the sun angle from the vertical is equal to your location latitude, then both the winter and summer are making the angle less vertical
02:11:02 <oren> https://physics.weber.edu/schroeder/ua/SunOnCelestialSphere.png
02:11:32 <nakilon> because at equinox you are at the center of the sinus wave, while winter and summer are shifting you up and down
02:12:55 <nakilon> oren nice find! repeats the (3)
02:13:30 <nakilon> and adds some terms
02:18:34 <int-e> oerjan: Yeah the great circles were the key mistake... it's only a great circle at equinox. Oh well. I probably should've known.
02:24:16 * oerjan finally found something trivial he'd missed in nakilon's loopy puzzle, now i'm making progress again
02:24:47 <oerjan> it was a loop line touching a 3
02:30:08 <nakilon> when I was solving it yesterday I basically made the same progress I made on mobile -- it's mainly about right bottom side
02:31:07 <nakilon> hmmmm I wonder if I apply the min filter to the screenshot
02:35:02 <oerjan> right bottom is the most solved part for me to, and my recent find expanded it greatly
02:35:34 <oerjan> (including much of the middle bottom now)
02:35:46 <nakilon> hm, numbers make a black mess
02:38:58 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/Btza1kO.png
02:39:01 <nakilon> looks spolierless
02:39:45 <nakilon> I wish vips had circular rank mask
02:52:20 <nakilon> oh I solved upper left
02:58:16 <fizzie> Heh, that fox was out there again, looking into a garbage bin.
02:58:26 <fizzie> Seems like 3-4am is its standard time for the rounds.
03:08:16 <nakilon> is it a correct assumption that loopy puzzle can't have more than one solution?
03:10:15 <nakilon> instructions unclear
03:15:16 <oerjan> hm i found a uniqueness exploiting spot
03:15:38 <oerjan> nakilon: pretty sure
03:16:01 <oerjan> there might be a flag for it, some puzzles have that
03:16:30 <oerjan> but afair all except blackbox are unique by default
03:16:38 <oerjan> well untangled also may not count
03:16:53 <oerjan> *-d
03:17:35 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/2cHXbPs.png
03:17:58 <oerjan> i'm not looking at your pictures until i solve it (or give up) :P
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05:12:09 <nakilon> solved!
05:13:24 * nakilon still does not understand how Melvar did it
05:31:47 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86693&oldid=86687 * KakkoiiChris * (+23019) Added syntax highlighting to the 99 bottles example program
06:02:56 <Sgeo> Windows96 does not use iFrames. AaronOS does use iFrames and some helper Javascript, which is how I would envision a secure YouOS-like web thingy to work
06:06:19 <nakilon> there should be a docker image with OS that has only programs written in esoteric languages
06:06:56 <nakilon> are there any self-compiling esoteric languages? that won't need some C in the first place
06:07:38 <nakilon> not sure if it should be unix-like
06:08:58 <nakilon> of course it should better be able to work with internet network though this thing is probably not implemented in any esolang purely yet
06:09:15 <nakilon> IIRC even Temple OS didn't have internet
06:16:34 <nakilon> or maybe at least an OS with some predefined borderline between the minimal part that had to be done in usual way to made the rest of the OS be possible to be made in esolangs
06:17:28 <nakilon> possibly including the preinstalled runtimes to interpret the esolangs VMs
06:17:39 <nakilon> *run esolang VMs
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06:19:37 <nakilon> so the end OS user would be only allowed to run his stuff using the prebuilt esolang runtimes
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06:20:47 <nakilon> I'm still not sure about shell -- is it unneeded at all or should it be premade too
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10:48:37 <nakilon> processing some leaked dump of Telegram channels found the channel "ethiopiaPoem"
10:49:06 <nakilon> የፍቅር ትርጉም አሰጣጡ
10:49:06 <nakilon> እንደ ሰጩ ቢለያይም
10:49:06 <nakilon> የእኔውን ልተርክልሽ እንጂ
10:49:06 <nakilon> በአንዱ መነጽር አንዱ አያይም
10:49:48 <nakilon> I even see the rythm, lol; there should be an esolang with these letters
10:51:06 <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge%CA%BDez_script
10:51:13 <nakilon> geez
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10:56:20 <nakilon> it may be called ይኗዐረልበፎ
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14:11:25 <int-e> anyone remember this game: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/2k.png ...
14:12:12 <spruit11> yah. tried it a few times but wasn't good at it
14:12:18 <fizzie> The thing that had a lot of controversy about stealing the idea from Threes?
14:12:35 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threes#Legacy
14:12:50 <int-e> Heh I only remember the dozens of variants
14:13:44 <int-e> ...that screenshot is so disorderly
14:15:19 <nakilon> what annoys me more is that people forget there are 4 spawning
14:15:31 <nakilon> on Android there are only 2 and they get higher score
14:15:44 <nakilon> but I don't care though about their score, but
14:18:22 <nakilon> when it was added to codingame.com they didn't give a fuck to implemented it correctly https://github.com/eulerscheZahl/2048/issues/1
14:18:46 <nakilon> I'm sorry, *give a damn
14:19:47 <nakilon> *to implement
14:25:11 <int-e> Hmm. I don't remember what the highest value tile I've ever made was...
14:26:09 <int-e> I wouldn't change the gameplay of a 6-7 year old game either.
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18:16:08 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86694&oldid=86693 * KakkoiiChris * (+4847) /* 99 bottles of beer */ Added line numbers
18:16:42 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86695&oldid=86694 * KakkoiiChris * (+6) /* Hello, world! */ Changed line number color
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18:40:10 <arseniiv> `? password
18:40:14 <HackEso> The password of the month is tempting in retrospect
18:40:56 <int-e> Time for a password of the month retrospective
18:41:53 <arseniiv> did we skip a month or is it just my memory?
18:44:06 <int-e> The last skip was a year ago, August 2020.
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18:56:55 <arseniiv> int-e: oh, good
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18:57:53 <arseniiv> I thought I came up with a good one recently but then I forgot to write it down
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18:58:34 <arseniiv> a quasi-Fermatic password
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19:14:14 <zzo38> How many other people on here do programming in PostScript, anyways?
19:28:58 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86696&oldid=86695 * KakkoiiChris * (+18444) /* Example Programs */ Added 99 Bottles with Gosubs Example
19:37:49 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86697&oldid=86696 * KakkoiiChris * (+931) /* Hello, world! */ Readded header comment
19:45:07 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86698&oldid=86697 * KakkoiiChris * (+3712) /* Truth-machine */ Added syntax highlighting
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19:56:30 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86699&oldid=86698 * KakkoiiChris * (+4910) /* Cat program */ Added syntax highlighting
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20:45:49 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86700&oldid=86699 * KakkoiiChris * (+2637) /* Wait */ Added syntax highlighting
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21:04:53 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86701&oldid=86700 * KakkoiiChris * (+11) Added links section
21:19:17 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86702&oldid=86701 * KakkoiiChris * (+300) /* Links */ Added relevant links and categories
21:34:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: I wrote one postscript program, http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/catalan.ps , and I doubt I'll write another
21:39:17 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmfdeWd0RMk i might have linked this already, but a very funny good video (SI unit type stuff)
21:48:38 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86703&oldid=86702 * KakkoiiChris * (+45059) /* Example Programs */ Added brainfuck example program
21:56:20 <zzo38> b_jonas: OK. (But I wonder if there are other people on here who do any others)
21:56:37 <riv> i once wrote a postscript thing to make a certain fractal
21:56:42 <riv> havent really used it other than that
21:57:46 <zzo38> What kind of fractal?
21:58:10 <riv> a circle within circles
21:58:18 <riv> like the appolonian gasket
21:59:42 <zzo38> Today I tried to make a "PC Encoding" file for PostScript; most of the characters work, but a few of them don't work; I don't know if that is because they are not included in the font or because I put in something wrong.
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23:35:08 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86704&oldid=86703 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-51) /* Links */) (Remove non-categories) (Imperative, Deterministic
23:38:14 <esolangs> [[Maurice Ling]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86705&oldid=60586 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Link to userpage
23:39:14 <esolangs> [[Maurice Ling]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86706&oldid=86705 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) com -> io
←2021-07-27 2021-07-28 2021-07-29→ ↑2021 ↑all