←2021-07-29 2021-07-30 2021-07-31→ ↑2021 ↑all
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01:00:44 <oerjan> <Corbin> Terminology question: What do we call it when a language turns unknown identifiers into searches on the filesystem? Like, unknown identifier "foo" becomes an attempt to read foo.sourcecode, or "foo/bar" tries to read foo/bar.sourcecode. <-- . o O ( insecure )
01:02:29 <keegan> i've never heard of that feature
01:02:34 <keegan> it's kinda awesome
01:03:31 <fizzie> On that note, four windows → that-a-way: <Grinnz> pasting BEGIN { `rm -rf ~/**` } in a pl file should probably not irreparably break my computer
01:03:42 <fizzie> (The topic was language servers and syntax highlighting.)
01:03:44 <int-e> why is it more insecure than any other language that stores source code on a file system...
01:04:22 <int-e> (we already routinely map module names to file names)
01:05:02 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, we love language servers, and file browsers that try to render a preview of every file
01:05:36 <b_jonas> you know that with all the plugins installed, at least one of the previewer plugins will be buggy, and probably a previewer that you wouldn't even use
01:05:58 <int-e> so I did > cat > t.pl \ BEGIN { `rm -rf ~/**` }
01:06:02 <int-e> and nothing happened
01:06:37 <int-e> fizzie: I guess I'm failing to provide the context, what is "four windows → that-a-way"
01:08:26 <fizzie> In this case, the #perl channel, and I don't think it was necessarily a real example. But it's something about how you can't parse Perl code fully without actually running the parser, and you can't run the parser in a way that wouldn't execute that shell command.
01:09:00 <oerjan> int-e: it wasn't a serious comment, just the first thing that popped into my mind when reading that.
01:09:09 <int-e> fizzie: Ah. Yeah that makes sense.
01:09:11 <fizzie> Also vaguely in that direction, see Leffert, A. & Reed, J.: Oracle Types, SIGBOVIK 2021, http://sigbovik.org/2021/proceedings.pdf (in the "Type" Track).
01:09:26 <b_jonas> int-e: that's because the extension isn't enough, you need the previewer to autodetect the language, and it thinks it's ruby. try (echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\nBEGIN { `rm -rf something` }' > t.pl) instead
01:09:44 <int-e> "tge previewer"
01:10:04 <b_jonas> fizzie: ah yes
01:10:10 <b_jonas> that "type system"
01:10:19 <b_jonas> fun one
01:10:24 <int-e> "the previewer"--please elaborate.
01:12:18 <int-e> oerjan: sorry for taking your humorous comment seriously *d&r*
01:13:02 * oerjan runs after int-e with the swatter -----###
01:13:32 <int-e> phew
01:13:38 <int-e> I was afraid it would be the mapole
01:13:56 <oerjan> int-e: i think b_jonas is confusing the topics on the channel hth
01:14:27 <oerjan> the mapole isn't mine, it's patiently waiting for boily's return
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01:15:04 <oerjan> hm i haven't checked r/friends in a long time
01:15:13 <int-e> did boily get lost while trying to revive metasepia?
01:16:54 <oerjan> well i see him posting a reddit comment saying HEIN? two days ago
01:16:55 <zzo38> Autodetection will not always detect something correctly, though.
01:17:02 <oerjan> in that loud quebec thread
01:17:11 <int-e> `? reddit
01:17:14 <HackEso> reddit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:17:20 <zzo38> Also, sometimes the syntax highlighting will not be able to work correctly without executing the file.
01:17:25 <oerjan> int-e: thausible
01:17:30 <int-e> (I do know *about* reddit, but who has the time?)
01:17:56 <oerjan> also the top is Sgeo responding to a rather hilariously titled oculuc thread
01:18:30 <oerjan> int-e: i still like to check r/physics and r/haskell a bit on occasion
01:18:48 <int-e> `learn Reddit is a supercharged tab exploder.
01:18:53 <HackEso> Learned 'reddit': Reddit is a supercharged tab exploder.
01:21:18 <oerjan> (also had r/math open already, but i actually read less there usually)
01:22:33 <int-e> I just never got into reddit. Nor slashdot when that was still relevant...
01:23:33 <fizzie> +5 insightful.
01:23:44 <keegan> i like reddit
01:23:57 <keegan> it has more of what made old school web forums good, compared to facebutt or twitter
01:24:05 <keegan> it's not really "social media" at least not the way i use it
01:29:44 <keegan> any popular or default-subscribed reddits are usually bad though
01:36:56 <oerjan> int-e: on the bright side that thread Sgeo posted in reinforces my decision never to get into Facebook
01:37:13 <oerjan> also regret i started reading it
01:38:51 <int-e> What is Facebook?
01:38:53 <int-e> :P
01:39:25 <oerjan> int-e: some place people seem to keep getting angry about
01:40:22 <int-e> Yeah, *I* get angry about Facebook a lot and I've never even had an account.
01:40:26 <nakilon> '"virtualenv" is such a presumptious command name' -- that's pithon for ya
01:40:44 <int-e> (Though the way they operate I'm bound to have at least one shadow account.)
01:40:59 <nakilon> they always presume there is nothing else in the world except of them
01:41:43 <nakilon> Guido invented the plus operator -- I see this in their minds since 2007
01:41:58 <nakilon> also invented computers
01:42:22 <keegan> lol
01:43:11 <nakilon> because he needed something to run his interpreter on
01:47:00 <int-e> Well, Python is a pretty nice language.
01:47:53 <keegan> ...FOR ME TO POOP ON!
01:48:01 <oerjan> . o O ( is Guido related to Wolfram? )
01:48:53 <int-e> oerjan: how many generations back are you willing to look?
01:49:18 <int-e> . o O ( and why does it matter )
01:56:33 <fizzie> I keep forgetting what the ~/music/unsorted/nsa_music directory is named after, and being all "huh, what's this then?", but it's just called that because there once was a Networked Storage Appliance that held the files in the directory.
01:57:25 <oerjan> int-e: we need to detect the gene for having invented everything! oh how could i forget Taneb
01:57:54 <oerjan> with 3 samples it should be really easy to find
01:58:06 <nakilon> at wolfram does not pretend to invent
01:58:28 <nakilon> he didn't add the word "lambda" to his language to pretend that it now has lambdas
01:58:44 <oerjan> nakilon: not in mathematica, but in his CA work
01:59:12 <nakilon> *at least
01:59:14 <oerjan> people point out that he wrote A New Kind of Science as if a lot of the ideas were new by him, which weren't
01:59:16 <int-e> fungot: is there anything that nakilon doesn't hate?
01:59:17 <fungot> int-e: but i'm wasting 4 bits with your code, to achieve the latter via imports and sutff?
01:59:32 <oerjan> or something like that.
01:59:51 <nakilon> people who know nothing love everything
02:00:01 <int-e> oerjan: do you know anybody who has actually read that book?
02:00:11 <oerjan> fizzie: that's just what they want you to think hth
02:00:59 <keegan> nsa music
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02:01:36 <keegan> one time i wrote a song about how people had hacked my microwave and were using it to spy on me
02:01:39 <keegan> maybe that's nsa music
02:01:44 <zzo38> Are RFC documents available without HTTPS? If you want to read the RFC to implement it if you do not have a implementation already, then it won't be very good. Other protocols can also help too (HTTP, Gopher, Gemini, etc), and also working even if you do not have internet connection, e.g. buy the book, borrow from library, etc.
02:01:44 <oerjan> int-e: i know scott aaronson and steven weinberg both reviewed it, does that count?
02:02:10 <keegan> zzo38: what if you don't have a TCP implementation either
02:02:34 <zzo38> keegan: In that case you will need the book, like I mentioned.
02:02:39 <int-e> oerjan: Oh Scott Aaronson reviewed it? I'm intrigued... (found it on arxiv)
02:02:44 <oerjan> s/which weren't/which many weren't/, let's not exaggerate too much
02:04:05 <zzo38> (Even if you can access it on internet, still you might want the book in case you want the printout but do not want to (or cannot) make the printout from your own computer (maybe in case there are too many pages).)
02:05:04 <nakilon> during last years every language has already implemented lambdas, even c++, but that one feeling butthurt due to realisation own uglyness keeps saying "nooo! we don't need what you all do! we are da best! we just have a keywork lambda and it's enough! we are da best lang in the world because we repeat this on daily basis! we don't need to prove it,
02:05:04 <nakilon> we just spread our cancer into ears of uneducated people who aren't aware of existence of other languages, because they are the majority and the percentage of our users will be the only thing that matters!"
02:05:23 <nakilon> *keyword
02:06:32 <zzo38> Even any kind of database services can also work with telephone by TTY or fax; in the case of fax, send a blank page to retrieve a form like a 80-column computer card, fill in your query by shading the positions corresponding to the characters that you want, and then send the completed form. You can send it again later in case you want to receive updated data (e.g. weather forecasts). Menus are also possible in similar way, too.
02:06:52 <fizzie> zzo38: There is still an FTP service answering at ftp.rfc-editor.org.
02:06:57 <nakilon> the stubborness was so hard they made a zoo of at least three workarounds to just not make it like normal people do
02:07:15 <nakilon> (the last time I looked at it several years ago)
02:08:21 <int-e> oerjan: "We believe that Wolfram is overstating his case." *chuckles*
02:08:33 <keegan> are there any actual examples of automated fax services working through such forms?
02:08:38 <keegan> it's a cute idea
02:09:02 <keegan> but i think in actuality such things would have been done through teletype
02:09:14 <fizzie> I have a feeling the https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc-retrieval.txt.pdf document has not been updated very frequently.
02:09:19 <zzo38> fizzie: FTP is even worse than HTTP, though.
02:09:35 <fizzie> But it does claim you may obtain RFC documents over email using an automated service.
02:11:25 <zzo38> keegan: I don't know of any such thing, but you can try to implement if wanted, I suppose
02:11:54 <keegan> I'm kind of sad that I missed the era of packet radio BBSes
02:12:02 <nakilon> what is this? community supported hostings for IEFT RFC documents?
02:12:10 <nakilon> *mirrors
02:12:13 <keegan> I did use some phone-line BBSes though
02:13:02 <nakilon> should there be some official list of checksums of RFCs?
02:13:18 <nakilon> and then the checksum of that list, lol
02:13:28 <fizzie> "Any site in the US running UUCP may call +1 900 GOT SRCS --" that's a great phone number though.
02:16:47 <fizzie> BBS systems (or I guess it's just "BB systems" to avoid redundancy) were colloquially called "purkki" or "boksi" (jar, can, box) in Finnish.
02:18:32 <fizzie> I used to dial into fiMUG's "Apple Garden BBS" occasionally, even though I didn't even have a Macintosh computer -- it ran on FirstClass, so you could use it with a graphical client, very fancy.
02:23:31 <int-e> nakilon: surely there's a git repo of them all somewhere :-P
02:24:10 <fizzie> There is an rsync option.
02:24:17 <zzo38> One thing I dislike about git is that it does not use directly the hash of the file, but rather the hash of the file with the header prepended that specifies its length.
02:24:18 <fizzie> (Not that it helps in terms of checksumming.)
02:24:53 <zzo38> Using directly the hash would be better for also content addressing etc with any systems that may use directly the hash of the file.
02:25:57 <nakilon> I imagine someone will make a system that compiles things based on RFCs automatically
02:26:00 <zzo38> (I think IPFS also does not use directly the hash of the file, due to using limited block sizes, and uses a format incompatible with git. IPFS with direct hashing would be better, I think.)
02:26:04 <nakilon> and then you give it fake RFC with a backdoor...
02:42:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * KakkoiiChris * uploaded a new version of "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]": Improved kerning of monogram
02:42:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] revert * KakkoiiChris * uploaded a new version of "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]": Reverted to version as of 07:19, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
02:44:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * KakkoiiChris * uploaded a new version of "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]": Improved kerning and alignment of monogram
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03:09:04 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86728&oldid=86724 * KakkoiiChris * (+9) /* Memory */ Fixed maximum memory size
03:40:07 <nakilon> where do you guys store you notes about servers you probably administer in some way?
03:40:35 <nakilon> like notes where are key files, how drives are attaches, which services should be set up, etc.
03:41:04 <nakilon> such info that I'm, for example, now am going to use to migrate software from one machine to another one
03:41:59 <zzo38> I run stuff on my own computer, so I keep notes only with information about backups on remote servers (for public data).
03:55:55 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86729&oldid=86728 * KakkoiiChris * (+520) /* Statements */ Added Gosub and Return stubs
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04:19:35 <nakilon> anyone used Chromium OS ?
04:22:01 <nakilon> I'm tempted to use this one for the new instance https://cloud.google.com/container-optimized-os
04:29:13 <nakilon> wow just recently heard about Centos being discontinued and now I read the same about CoreOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_Linux
04:29:22 <nakilon> wtf is happening to Red Hat
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05:13:25 <zzo38> What algorithm can be used to figure out to move around the nodes on a map so that they do not overlap and to draw bent lines between the nodes if needed? This is the program so far: http://sprunge.us/csRWxA and the output is: http://zzo38computer.org/img_1F/townmap.png the lines are wrong and some are not visible due to being covered up by the other one.
05:18:21 <nakilon> I hate how graphviz bents the lines
05:18:54 <nakilon> it feels to me like they are wondering the same question too, for years, heh
05:21:01 <zzo38> Maybe then in future we can improve this program, and then adapt the parts of this program for drawing other maps/graphs too, and then can use that as an alternative program once it is fixed.
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06:49:45 <nakilon> looks like there is some practice of "machine/cloud-instance metadata" that may include startup autorun scripts, a list of disks to mount, etc.; didn't use it much, maybe should
06:50:41 <nakilon> at least in GCP it is a thing and it's not stored on the machine -- it's attached via the web console or via CLI from my external dev machine
06:50:45 <nakilon> weird thing
07:06:23 <nakilon> (https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/metadata/overview)
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08:07:37 <b_jonas> int-e: I have looked at Wolfram's ANKS and read a few pages of it, many years ago.
08:08:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/
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08:09:46 <int-e> that review by Scott Aaronson was helpful (link: https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0206089 )
08:10:47 <int-e> Though it mostly confirmed that I've not missed much by not reading it.
08:45:49 <b_jonas> can anyone who understands how online auction sites work explain to me why it is that ebay sells DVD demagnetizers while amazon.com and amazon.co.uk doesn't?
08:46:40 <int-e> ...
08:47:21 <b_jonas> I don't want to buy one, I'm just trying to understand how online shopping works
08:48:08 <int-e> Well ebay has a very low barrier of entry for selling stuff.
08:48:08 <b_jonas> and I'm fascinated by the idea that someone managed to top gold-plated audio connectors in snakeoil-like quality in such a spectacular fashion
08:48:30 <int-e> Amazon... I don't know, how do you sell something on Amazon?
08:49:26 <b_jonas> banggood also doesn't seem to sell dvd demagnetizers
08:51:18 <int-e> On Amazon you pay $40 a month to sell something... plus fees... and I imagine people who sell questionable items get reported and suspended regularly.
08:51:38 <int-e> Ebay lets you make an auction for free.
08:51:42 <int-e> AIUI
08:51:58 <int-e> (with fees paid when it closes)
08:57:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TJC games * moved [[Gdelang]] to [[Esolang:Gdelfuck]]: It is FAR more difficult to program than bf. The creator of bf would be proud.
08:57:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TJC games * moved [[Talk:Gdelang]] to [[Esolang talk:Gdelfuck]]: It is FAR more difficult to program than bf. The creator of bf would be proud.
08:58:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86734&oldid=86658 * TJC games * (+1) Gdelang -> Gdelfuck
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09:16:56 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, but that monthly fee isn't per listing, right? so someone who already pays the fee and regularly sells consumer electronics could add a listing
09:17:20 <b_jonas> int-e: the reporting might be correct though, ebay specifically makes it hard to report fraudulent entries. I tried to report once or twice and gave up.
09:18:19 <int-e> b_jonas: /if/ the reporting on amazon is effective (no clue, really) then you may be looking at $40 for every couple of listings...
09:19:41 <b_jonas> yeah, you have a point. on ebay, some fraudulent entries are by new sellers who pop up, then disappear after two months
09:20:10 <int-e> I'm saddened to think that there is a market for such a ludicrous product
09:20:56 <b_jonas> and there are often multitudes of ebay listings of effectively the same product by supposedly different sellers
09:22:06 <b_jonas> int-e: well, I might be making it *slightly* more ludicrous than it is: it's originally listed mainly as an audio CD demagnetizer, and audio CDs have fewer error correction codes and the general tendency to continue reading even after an uncorrectable checksum error. that it also demagnetizes DVD is an added bonus.
09:22:42 <int-e> But does it also function as an audio tape demagnetizer?
09:23:41 <b_jonas> int-e: no, those are physically incompatible. maybe it could work as a 5 inch floppy disk demagnetizer.
09:23:55 <b_jonas> there are audio tape casette player *head* demagnetizers though
09:24:38 <b_jonas> (I don't know whether those do anything potentially useful)
09:24:43 <int-e> well, those almost make sense (but there still shouldn't be any permamagnetic materials in there)
09:25:21 <b_jonas> how? everything old is made of iron, because plastics sucked back then, so a lots of things incidentally have magnetizable materials
09:25:52 <b_jonas> like, they can have iron sheets for shielding
09:26:09 <b_jonas> or even just for structural stability in larger devices
09:26:27 <b_jonas> or even just steel screws to hold plastic parts together, those can get magnetized too
09:33:16 <fizzie> On the topic of metadata (mostly config files) about machines I administer, I've spoken about it before, but I keep mine in a git repo with a "dist" branch (config files as they came out from the distribution's packages) in addition to the one with the edited files, so that when there's a software upgrade that changes a config file I've edited, I can just commit the new version to the dist branch
09:33:18 <fizzie> and then merge it to get a proper three-way merge.
09:33:20 <fizzie> It's complemented with some homegrown "deploy" scripts that you can ask to compare the files with a cached copy of what's expected to be live on the machine, and for changed files connects over SSH, double-checks that the *actually* live copy matches the cached one (i.e., I've not edited anything "in situ"), and pushes the updates. The script's one of those "no install needed on the remote end";
09:33:22 <fizzie> it pushes the deploy logic along with the data over the SSH connection.
09:33:24 <fizzie> Since that's where I keep all configuration, other less structured notes about systems also go in the same repository, they're just not listed as deployable configuration files.
09:33:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86735&oldid=86592 * LyricLy * (-86) Improve professionality
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09:37:19 <fizzie> And on the topic of Chromium OS, I used a portable Chrome OS device (the Pixel Slate) for maybe a bit less than a year as the thing I'd take on a trip to do browser stuff, SSH, and other assorted bits of computing, like playing around with its ARC+ and Crostini virtualization things for Android and Linux software, respectively. But I don't think I learned anything particularly relevant about the
09:37:20 <fizzie> operating system from that.
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10:43:32 <nakilon> wtf is DVD demagnetizer?
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10:49:51 <wib_jonas> fizzie: that's nice. I should probably organize the dozen config files that I modify somehow, even if not in such a powerful way.
10:50:40 <wib_jonas> keeping unstructured notes about the systems in the config directory is an interesting idea, I haven't considered that
10:51:07 <wib_jonas> one problem is that some of the configuration contains secret information, as in passwords or private keys
10:51:34 <wib_jonas> and ideally I want to make ic always clear which stuff is secret
11:01:49 <nakilon> THIS_IS_SECRET_DONT_READ_IT.txt
11:33:49 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't have a great solution for secrets. I do have a separate place for "keys" in general, but sometimes a password or something kind of has to go into a config file. Like wifi pre-shared keys for the router or whatnot. Maybe I should add some support for references to secrets stored elsewhere, that would be substituted on the fly when pushing.
11:38:20 <riv> i usually .gitignore the file but have a dummy version with a fake password in it
11:54:46 <wib_jonas> ideally programs should be written in such a way that the config file doesn't have secrets, those are read from a separate file, but I might not bother changing this in existing programs as opposed to programs that I write
11:55:42 <riv> what about secrets in env vars?
11:55:43 <wib_jonas> but yes, I guess I should make a version of the config file with a fake password, and substitute it as I deploy
11:56:16 <wib_jonas> riv: those definitely shouldn't exist. there too, the env-var should refer to the name of a file that has the password or key, or some other indirection
11:56:47 <wib_jonas> but I don't think I've ever seen passwords given in an env-var. in command-line arguments, sure, sometimes people do that, but in general most people know that they shouldn't.
11:56:55 <riv> i feel the same way but i don't have a good reason for it
11:58:11 <wib_jonas> the reason is that the command-line arguments are readable from /proc to any user on the same system, and ps can display them
11:58:46 <wib_jonas> I don't know whether this applies to env-vars: they are in /proc but I don't recall if they're readable to everyone
11:58:54 <riv> i see
11:58:59 <riv> so files are contained per user at least
11:59:36 <wib_jonas> for files you have to make sure to set up permissions correctly
11:59:50 <wib_jonas> you can leak secrets by world-readable files too if you're not careful
12:14:32 <nakilon> I think it's easier to steal a file than an env var
12:15:53 <nakilon> also it's pretty usual to pass secrets as env vars -- secrets are often stored by the web service that you use to deploy things
12:16:39 <nakilon> for example Github Actions
12:17:25 <nakilon> this damn thing does not work ( it just hangs https://cloud.google.com/container-optimized-os/docs/how-to/toolbox#installing_and_running_tools_from_toolbox and there is no way to install htop on container-optimized os
12:18:36 <nakilon> and their repo does not have Issues tab, nice https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/cos-toolbox
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12:27:40 <riv> https://games.greggman.com/game/zip-rant/
12:32:42 <nakilon> lol, came to GCP's official slack with questions, see a guy with his own questions too and a thread where people say "try also asking on Stackoverflow"
12:33:15 <nakilon> he did ask; "you won't believe!" but the questions got downvoted and closed, lol
12:34:02 <nakilon> this fucked up world where you aren't supposed to ask questions which are not about how to make a hello world
12:41:51 <riv> https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/resources/blogs/spiderlabs-blog/is-modsecuritys-secrules-turing-complete/
12:46:44 <nakilon> make me unread it
12:47:38 <nakilon> I mean the one about zip
12:54:13 <nakilon> oh and this container-optimized image splits the 10GB disk in such way that leaves me only 5.7GB free from start https://dpaste.org/wk26/slim
12:55:01 <nakilon> oh, even 4.1GB actually
13:02:01 <riv> so my book says that LZW compression is universal in the sense that it can asymptotically compress any ergodic source to entropy
13:02:37 <riv> proved by Cover and Thomas (1991)
13:02:43 <riv> i can't find this but it is an interesting result
13:03:32 <riv> and it says that an adaptive arithmetic compression could also be universal for a much more restricted set of sources
13:07:52 <riv> http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~cgong821/Wiley.Interscience.Elements.of.Information.Theory.Jul.2006.eBook-DDU.pdf ok here is the proof on page 443 (469)
13:09:22 <riv> > This result was proved by Wyner and Ziv [591].
13:09:24 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:47: error:
13:09:24 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
13:12:22 <riv> i wonder if that is the easiest way to compute the entropy of a source
13:17:51 <riv> I never thought about unary coding like this before: 1, 01, 001, 0001, ... represents 0,1,2,3, ...
13:18:03 <riv> this is an optimal encoding if P(n) = 2^(-n)
13:21:10 <nakilon> when you count on fingers you do it
13:21:21 <nakilon> you use 10 fingers to count up to 10
13:21:34 <nakilon> unless you are such a nerd I didn't see before
13:22:37 <nakilon> imagine hearing "only a few left, you can count them on your fingers" and thinking "1024?"
13:22:50 <riv> haha
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13:28:23 <nakilon> hmmm
13:28:52 <nakilon> it's hard to multiply or maybe divide numbers in head, so imagine working as a team
13:29:17 <nakilon> where a team of 10 guys each remember several digits
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13:30:40 <nakilon> I guess an experienced team of 5 can calculate everything with enough precision to launch rockets
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14:04:00 <riv> https://twitter.com/tomo_/status/1402464791893975044
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15:00:29 <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder how large a fraction of the viewers of https://xkcd.com/2496/ also went and solved it. Perhaps a pretty large one.
15:01:26 <Taneb> I certainly did
15:01:39 <Taneb> I was a little surprised it's uniquely solvable with just that information
15:03:26 <fizzie> I kind of assumed it would have been chosen to be.
15:03:27 <nakilon> a1 a3 b3 d2?
15:06:27 <Taneb> I don't think that's the solution I got?
15:06:42 <Taneb> Not entirely sure of your notation
15:06:46 <wib_jonas> a minesweeper captcha? that's like the wiki's base 9 to base 10 radix conversion captcha, easier to solve with a computer than without
15:08:50 <wib_jonas> I'm bad at minesweeper... I think there's a unique solution, with four mines, all in the middle two rows
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15:09:33 <riv> nothing happens when I click
15:12:30 <wib_jonas> puzzle is [2.1./..3./3.../.1.1] . the two fields on the top right must be clean, and the tile below the 2 must be a mine, just from the 2 and 1 in the top row, so it's like [2.1-/*.3-/3.../.1.1] where - means clean and * means mine. then
15:12:53 <nakilon> that's a chess notation
15:13:16 <wib_jonas> from the top row 1 and the 3 below it, there must be two mines among the tree cells below the 3, and then because of the 1s in the bottom row, those can only be placed like [2.1-/*.3-/3*-*/-1-1].
15:13:55 <nakilon> I now imagine an IRC minesweeper bot
15:14:27 <nakilon> and disarming mines collectively
15:14:47 <wib_jonas> finally the 3 in the left needs two mines above it, and then the remaining cell in the first row must be clean: [2-1-/**3-/3*-*/-1-1]
15:15:43 <wib_jonas> nakilon: isn't a1 the bottom left cell? that seems different from what I said
15:15:53 <myname> there was some website with a minesweeper captcha where you were given a solved board and have to click on the error
15:16:23 <myname> that was quite fun
15:16:57 <nakilon> oh indeed
15:17:03 <wib_jonas> nakilon: if I decode that correctly, that would be [2-1-/**3-/3--*/*1-1] but that is wrong because the middle 3 only has two mines around it
15:17:15 <nakilon> a3 b3 b2 d2
15:17:30 <nakilon> my legs and arms are flying over the minefield
15:17:35 <wib_jonas> that sounds better
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15:29:24 <wib_jonas> plus I'm reminded of SMBC's very different recent take on captchas\
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15:53:50 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86736&oldid=86710 * Spargle * (+384) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
15:59:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Martsadas * New user account
16:05:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86737&oldid=86678 * Martsadas * (+212)
16:06:35 <esolangs> [[User:Martsadas]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86738 * Martsadas * (+25) Created page with "Hello! I'm User:Martsadas"
16:17:21 <nakilon> b_jonas about the 'what is my IP' see what I've found -- the example snippet here https://cloud.google.com/build/docs/configuring-builds/use-community-and-custom-builders
16:18:44 <nakilon> oh it's in json, not just a string
16:19:15 <nakilon> maybe there are other routes on this server, didn't research
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16:45:10 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86739 * Martsadas * (+2486) Created page with "=== LOLSUS is an esolang created by [https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Martsadas User:Martsadas] === <br> <br> === Valid Instructions : ===<br> '''Instructions that starts with..."
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17:30:26 <b_jonas> nakilon: I found a usable one earlier: http://ip6.me/ for the website and description, http://ip6.me/api/ for the machine-readable version
17:30:43 <b_jonas> they have variants for in6 only, in4 only, and fallbacks both ways
17:31:08 <b_jonas> hmm no, they don't have an in4 to in6 fallback actually
17:31:24 <b_jonas> still, they have an in4 only and an in6 only, at worst you send two queries
17:33:38 <b_jonas> (they also have https versions)
17:35:48 <zzo38> For retrieving your IP address, there is: http://icanhazip.com/ only uses plain text; no HTML or anything like that is needed. (However, this might not work with version 6; I don't know, since I don't have version 6 internet)
17:37:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: thanks, that does give me my ipv6 address
17:38:24 <b_jonas> and an ipv4 address too, if I connect on ipv4
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18:04:29 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86740&oldid=86662 * Digital Hunter * (+70) /* Parse this sic */ shorter one. Works.
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18:19:44 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86741&oldid=86720 * Ch44d * (+0) fix hello world 2
18:20:46 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86742&oldid=86741 * Ch44d * (+4) /* Hello World 2 */
18:36:03 <zzo38> Why when using exiftool with the PNG output from Ghostscript, it says "Primary Platform : Apple Computer Inc." even though I am using Linux on a PC, and not Apple?
18:37:25 <b_jonas> fungot, how many years is a gigasecond?
18:37:26 <fungot> b_jonas: omg happy fnord kthxbye"? more like a schemematic for a single character... except for... something, and then calls the one it fnord)
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18:38:28 <keegan> 31.7 years
18:38:40 <keegan> I had a celebration for my gigasecond
18:38:45 <keegan> my parents even sent me a card
18:41:13 <APic> Nice
18:44:34 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86743&oldid=86729 * KakkoiiChris * (-72) /* V4 */ Fixed format of @ delimiter in examples
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21:29:54 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86744 * Dominicentek * (+2400) Created page with "ReadWrite is an esoteric programming language written by [[User:Dominicentek]]. It only has 2 instructions. Reading from memory or writing to memory. == Instructions == {| cla..."
21:31:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86745&oldid=86734 * Dominicentek * (+16) /* R */
21:32:06 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86746&oldid=86744 * Dominicentek * (+27) Added extra category
21:34:22 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86747&oldid=86659 * Dominicentek * (+47)
21:34:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86748&oldid=86747 * Dominicentek * (+4)
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21:41:39 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86749&oldid=86746 * Dominicentek * (+122) Added few notes to the Math section
21:49:47 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86750&oldid=86749 * Dominicentek * (+177) Changed outputting system
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23:12:24 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86751&oldid=86445 * Tomhe * (+75) wflip addr,val,jmp syntax update
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23:25:51 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86752&oldid=86750 * Dominicentek * (+75) Added interpreter + fixed calculator example
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23:35:33 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86753&oldid=86752 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) /* Interpreter */ Fix cat
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23:39:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86754&oldid=86745 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* L */ LOLUS
23:40:17 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86755&oldid=86739 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-19) Cat, wikilink
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