2021-08-01: 00:33:54 -!- mla has joined. 01:01:19 [[Stupidbf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86783 * CosmicMan08 * (+1504) Created page with "Stupidbf is a joke derivative of [[Brainfuck]] by CosmicMan08#1975 ([[User:CosmicMan08]]). it sucks lmao == instructions i guess == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Instruction !!..." 01:01:41 [[Stupidbf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86784&oldid=86783 * CosmicMan08 * (+27) 01:05:03 [[Stupidbf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86785&oldid=86784 * CosmicMan08 * (-1497) Redirected page to [[Language of Laughing]] 01:05:06 [[Language of Lauging]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86786 * CosmicMan08 * (+1543) Created page with "Language of Laughing is a joke derivative of [[Brainfuck]] by CosmicMan08#1975 ([[User:CosmicMan08]]). it sucks lmao == instructions i guess == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Ins..." 01:06:24 [[Language of Laughing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86787 * CosmicMan08 * (+33) Redirected page to [[Language of Lauging]] 01:14:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:27:27 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 01:28:12 -!- mnrmnaugh has left (Leaving). 01:44:02 -!- mnrmnaughmnrgle has joined. 01:47:03 `learn The password of the month is too long for this irc message 01:47:07 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is too long for this irc message 01:48:34 passable 01:48:58 ( arseniiv spoke about quasi-Fermatic passwords earlier ) 01:50:18 hm this would have been a good use for `# , but of course i never remember that until afterwards 01:50:57 `? `# 01:50:59 ​`# //` is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn. 02:02:38 we should get fizzie to add links from the hackeso repo history pages to the IRC pages (not serious, no clue how feasible that is, but it'd require hacking hgweb for sure) 02:04:06 Hmm. If it's just based on commit timestamp to the date, that'd probably be reasonably easy. If you want it to link to the correct line's anchor, that's probably a little trickier. 02:05:34 timestamp is probably fine, especially since the change might have happened off channel 02:05:58 but eh... it's really not that hard to do that manually. a bit tedious, sure. 02:07:54 Yeah. I guess it'd actually be more than a "little" tricky to link to the exact line fully reliably, because HackEso and the logging are two separate clients, so they're not guaranteed to see messages in the same order. 02:14:02 fiendish 02:15:40 you could compare the command lines, although there is some escaping i think 02:15:49 (in the logging) 02:19:21 of course the logs can't be seen from inside HackEso 02:19:30 um the irc logs 02:22:39 there is also a slight theoretical ambiguity because `run and plain ` are both stripped and not distinguished iirc 02:24:30 `date 02:24:31 Sun Aug 1 02:24:30 UTC 2021 02:27:25 `dowg password 02:27:27 12414:2021-08-01 learn The password of the month is too long for this irc message \ 12408:2021-07-01 learn The password of the month is tempting in retrospect \ 12397:2021-06-01 learn The password of the month is moving to Libera Chat. \ 12377:2021-05-08 learn The password of the month is heavily guarded. \ 12374:2021-04-06 learn The password of the month is hiding in plain sight. \ 12372:2021-03-04 HackEso could probably collect all the info and build a url, and then there could be a web page that decoded it and searched to the right place. i presume. i don't know the web side of things. 02:46:49 ` have you changed the error message for this? 02:46:50 ​? Permission denied 02:46:54 `/ or for this 02:46:55 ​/? Permission denied 02:46:58 no. good. 02:47:13 in what way is plain ` "stripped"? 02:48:32 oh, you mean when HackEso records the commands in its hg log? or some internal log for fizzie when they don't modify anything? 02:53:59 the former. how would i know about fizzie's internal logs? 02:54:27 Yes, I think the hg commit message isn't entirely unambiguous. 02:55:08 although `run is pretty rare these days. 02:58:15 oerjan: fizzie might tell about them, or you might have read the source code 02:59:02 I almost never use `run but I *should*. it's an easy way to avoid rnoodl. ideally I should reimplement rnoodl to make it less mentally annoying, but I'm lazy. 03:00:10 though part of the problem is that even after I reimplement it, I'll still hate it, and want it not to be present in commands that I run 03:00:56 `` printenv 03:01:04 IRC_NICK=oerjan \ PWD=/hackenv/tmp \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ HOME=/tmp \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ IRC_NETWORK=Libera.Chat \ IRC_COMMAND=PRIVMSG \ IRC_IDENT=oerjan \ TERM=linux \ IRC_INSTANCE=HackEso-libera \ SHLVL=1 \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ IRC_HOST=sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no \ IRC_TARGET=#esolangs \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ IRC_MESSAGE=`` printenv \ _=/usr/bin/printenv 03:01:26 `cbt rnoodl 03:01:28 cat: /hackenv/bin/rnoodl: No such file or directory 03:01:32 `cbt rnooodl 03:01:35 perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge' 03:02:42 I'm fine with wisdom and \? running rnoodl to be clear, it's just \` and \`\` where I think it shouldn't run 03:02:59 hm 03:04:21 if you want to balance it out, make quote run rnoodl 03:05:06 admittedly that would lead to a nested rnoodl syndrome, similar to the leaning toothpick syndrome, where some quotes contain lines that HackEso said and were already rnoodled 03:05:38 no wait, it wouldn't! 03:05:53 rnoodl only affects exactly three os, not more than three 03:05:53 great 03:07:14 the part of rnoodl that I hate is that it buffers too much. if a command ran with backtick prints a partial line then times out, you won't see that output, because rnoodl swallows it. there is never any reason for rnoodl to not print any input immediately, except sometimes the single last character when it just read something ending in "nood". 03:07:39 something ending in "noood", sorry 03:08:08 so a good implementation of rnoodl should write immediately after a read, except for that last "d", which it should ideally write after a short timeout 03:09:16 * oerjan goes to get some chocolate 03:12:13 I did consider just modifying \` or \`\` to not run rnoodl, but I think that would be reverted quickly. I did consider modifying them to not run rnoodl if I (b_jonas) am running the command, but that would be reverted too, perhaps slightly less quickly. I even considered modifying \` or \`\` to not run rnoodl if I'm running it and hiding my tracks by modifying cbt and creating /bin/cat such that they 03:12:19 both write a fake output if you cbt \` or cbt cbt or cbt cat, probably with some other extra behavior in cat to justify why I created it, and that would take much longer to discover, but after that you'd be much angrier with me. 03:13:40 so my best option is probably to make a good implementation for rnoodl, and also modify *that* to exec cat when I'm running the command, or perhaps exec cat when I'm running the command and the command is \` rather than \q 03:13:56 that would probably not get reverted, but it requires work 03:17:20 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lexinathan * New user account 03:18:57 of course I'm never really sure about what would get reverted, and the general problem of what gets reverted on a wiki and what gets to stay is probably politics-complete, i.e. harder than what humans can currently do 03:19:52 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:20:13 if you had repeated calls to an oracle that could predict if a change gets reverted on a wiki, you could probably use that to find optimal solutions to any political problem, like what the heck to do with the middle east 03:21:33 well no, probably not find *optimal* solutions, just find solutions exponentially close in value to the optimal 03:23:18 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86788&oldid=86778 * Lexinathan * (+239) /* Introductions of Lexinathan */ 03:23:21 What I've been thinking I should do is to make the log web pages produce proper cache validation headers (ETag and/or Last-Modified), because currently they contain none, but the content of past days never changes. Except (and that's probably the reason why I haven't done it yet) if I change something in the formatting. 03:24:22 Here's something I can never remember: which one out of the `-i` and `-I` flags of curl is the one that does just a HEAD request, vs. the one that does a normal GET request but also prints the headers as part of the output. There's probably some kind of a mnemonic for it. 03:26:05 fizzie: `-I` 03:26:33 also called `--head` 03:26:38 Yes, I mean, I can look it up and/or just determine it empirically, the problem is remembering it the next time. 03:26:49 Maybe the long flags would be more memorable. 03:27:06 Though I'm quite capable of remembering that -i and -I do those two things, just not which one is which. 03:27:15 [[User:Lexinathan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86789 * Lexinathan * (+107) me 03:29:21 "but that would be reverted too" <-- ye of little faith, we'd just expand it to read share/rnooodlhaters hth 03:34:12 fizzie: -i for "include" header; -I is an uppercase letter to set the HTTP method, and http methods are usually written in uppercase 03:35:47 -G means to set the method to GET; POST is the default if you give a body to post, and you can't post with no body (you can post with empty body but that's different); but -H was already used for something more important, so it's -I 03:36:24 if you had repeated calls to an oracle that could predict [...] <-- this seems related to option 3 here https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/updated-look-at-long-term-ai-risks 03:37:18 fizzie: alternately, don't try to remember -i at all, instead try to remember -D to dump the header, but remember -D to print headers to a separate file, and use -D - instead, or -D with the same filename as where the normal output goes 03:37:24 um no, not that latter 03:37:31 -D - instead, and redirect to a file if you wish 03:37:56 you rarely want to include headers in the same stream when you write a script, and when you just examine the output then -D - ... | less will work 03:40:30 but you do sometimes want headers in a separate file when you're writing a script, so remembering -D in general is more useful 03:41:50 in practice, I remember almost none of those options, not -I, not -i, I look up everything in the manual except maybe sometimes -sS or whatever that pair of options is to mute the default performance info output on stderr when I'm writing to a file but still print errors 03:42:01 I don't even know if it's -sS or -sq or -qQ or whatever 03:42:17 yeah, looked it up, it's -sS 03:42:25 curl is hard to use without looking up 03:43:05 ideally I should implement a better downloading tool that does exactly what I need -- I have written one, wgetas, but that was like twelve years ago, the program sucks, my needs changed, etc 03:43:24 and if I write the program, then I will set its syntax to something I remember 03:44:00 [[User:OrichalcumCosmonaut]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86790&oldid=86762 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-18) pronoun.is has an ?or= query parameter 04:13:54 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:13:36 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86791&oldid=86759 * KakkoiiChris * (+114) /* Operators */ Added increment and decrement operators to precedence tables 06:14:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:17:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 06:22:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:23:25 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:23:45 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:30:43 Now I wrote a PostScript code for parsing command-line switches, like getopt but always like POSIXLY_CORRECT mode. So, you can write: /Verbose false def << /v [/N {pop /Verbose true def}] >> (getopt.ps) run Verbose == 06:35:36 http://sprunge.us/qT0uzl 07:17:28 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:18:37 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 07:37:51 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:38:02 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 08:03:51 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:08:10 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:11:04 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:31:01 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:21:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:31:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:33:12 lmao 09:33:18 https://i.imgur.com/Gpi3LQn.png 09:33:47 found this edit in my library README dated to Oct 19 2020 09:35:45 and I have no idea what the hell is the bug there 13:29:44 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:32:56 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:44:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:04:48 -!- SGautam has joined. 14:09:20 -!- arseniiv has joined. 14:18:41 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * R3D * New user account 14:28:27 [[Talk:OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86792&oldid=32131 * Rdococ * (+367) 14:29:06 [[Talk:OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86793&oldid=86792 * Rdococ * (+3) 14:34:44 are there any AIs based on bayes law? 14:37:59 I'm imagining that, given a function which we are trying to optimize, we could estimate intervals around the minima. The edges of these intervals (their "boundary") would have a gradient based on the function's derivative. 14:38:47 the AI should make decisions based on logic and bayes law, to pick the best action 14:38:48 Given an evaluation of the function within any particular interval, we can improve our knowledge of that interval's minimum, and tighten the bounds. 14:39:21 This connects Bayes' law (information about minima) with differentiation-oriented optimization (information about gradients near minima). 14:39:55 looks like I finished the thing that finds the words in channel names 14:40:22 -!- imode has joined. 14:40:30 nakilon, can you show the code and explain it 14:41:05 Corbin, what about if everything was over finite sets? 14:41:16 then i wont have derivatives 14:41:30 e.g. an AI in a discrete simulated world 14:41:47 explaining it would probably take the same amount of time I wrote it lol 14:42:04 here is the result: https://dpaste.org/6LwV/slim 14:43:17 riv: Then the useful parts of (warning: memetic hazard!) https://intelligence.org/files/LogicalInduction.pdf apply, and we get 0-1 integer programming (Boolean circuits), which is NP-complete. 14:43:26 I see no errors except probably the line #32 that is a part of "cryptocurrency", should grep to see the input with this substring 14:44:20 the result makes no sense 14:44:53 how was this computed 14:45:14 there was many channels with pokemongo in the name? 14:46:13 riv: That said, somebody does have a recipe for creating generic AIs: https://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/goedelmachine.html As it evolves over time, it naturally exhibits Bayes' law by improving the explanatory power of its inner model. 14:46:15 example piece of input https://i.imgur.com/AqHIn9K.png 14:46:59 interesting 14:47:07 can you tell me how it does this nakilon ? 14:47:10 example piece with pokemongo https://i.imgur.com/7p1q88m.png 14:47:40 there is a tension between length of substring and number of matches 14:47:46 the longer a substring is the fewer matches it has 14:47:52 how do you balance it? 14:48:05 is there a name for this problem you solved? 14:48:31 I have no idea about the name 14:48:56 I asked local NLP chat and googled, found no existing solution 14:51:02 input is a set of I of N strings, output is a set O of M strings. You want M << N and you want entropy H(I|O) to be much smaller than H(O) I guess could be a way to set it up 14:51:08 i dont know for sure if that's right 14:51:36 correction H(I|O) to be much smaller than H(I) 14:51:51 maybe it's nonsense 14:52:05 the idea is that I can be compressed well using O 14:53:41 I think it's the wrong way to think about it, I am trying to make anything a nail for this hammer im reading about now 14:56:12 we want to find "common" substrings in a set of strings. Call a substring of length n common if it occurs more than log(n) times. 14:57:08 if you want to code and try to achieve the same success I can give you the input 14:57:26 I have no idea how to code this, that's part of why i find it interesting 14:57:44 I would maybe try to adapt LZW 14:58:11 I think LZW is not just a random dictionary compression alg. I think it is the canonical universal compression alg (for ergodic sources) 14:59:22 It will be nice if you tell how you coded it 14:59:39 but if you dont want to that's ok 15:01:44 omg almost deleted the source code 15:01:55 thanks Sublime 15:02:22 that the file was still open in it 15:03:30 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:04:04 "but if you dont want" -- no, it's just complex 15:04:51 and involves my know-how algorithm twice 15:06:37 "I would maybe try to adapt LZW" -- I asked here like 3 days ago about it if there is "some text compression CLI with debug option to see common substrings" 15:07:20 (I'm still lazy to make any search functionality for my IRC logs) 15:07:47 anyway, there was no answer 15:08:33 you should use git 15:09:00 LZW is just an alg, not a specific command line program 15:09:12 so i would need to code it from scratch, especially to get common substrings out 15:09:30 know-how algorithm? 15:12:08 "you should use git" -- I didn't have any good results until the last hour so I didn't commit 15:13:28 I call it PCBR (Pairs Comparison Based Rating) -- very universal thing for sorting tables 15:14:27 works better than more classic heuristics functions that you apply "to sort tables by multiple axes at the same time" 15:15:47 it's like round-robin chess tourney but with some details 15:19:46 oh that is cool! 15:24:56 back in 2013 I wanted to figure out who's the best player on my fav Quake map so I've scraped thousands of player profile stats; the approach didn't work better than just dividing "score / time played" with some heuristics, idk why, but that was the start 15:26:39 then in 2015 I reimagined it and applied to filter the RSS feeds to leave only the most interesting posts based on their stats like score/comments/age and properties of the tags they belong to -- worked well so I made a gem 15:27:20 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:29:03 We have an unsupervised-learning thing for morpheme extraction, that's pretty much the same problem I think. 15:29:20 morpheme extraction... 15:29:31 Although if I remember right, we really didn't care if the result was "correct", just that it works well. 15:30:02 in 2016 I decided to automate the moderation of the content in the company I worked at -- the 1-nn worked well after I've optimized the training set of 2000 items throwing away ~500 of them, and since you can't retrain the model 2^2000 time I used the PCBR to effectively traverse the tree of throwingouts 15:30:21 http://morpho.aalto.fi/events/morphochallenge/ -- it was an almost-annual challenge kind of a thing for some time. 15:31:37 and after these "milestones" I started to apply the PCBR so often for my scriptings it would be too big list to describe 15:32:04 And https://github.com/aalto-speech/morfessor for the piece of software. Not sure how obsolete it is these days. 15:32:18 -!- arseniiv has joined. 15:33:02 the first time I've realised the things works I tried to find it in any books to name the gem properly but couldn't so I had to make my own name for it; later I tried to google it again and only found a bunch of math topics on wikipedia, still no exact match 15:40:33 oh, found those links 15:40:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-criteria_decision_analysis 15:40:46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-objective_optimization 15:46:10 fizzie what is the first column? frequency? 15:47:49 (here http://morpho.aalto.fi/events/morphochallenge2010/data/wordlist-2010.eng) 15:50:37 Yes. 15:56:33 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86794&oldid=86788 * R3D * (+100) 15:57:06 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86795&oldid=86794 * R3D * (+17) 15:59:33 [[User:R3D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86796 * R3D * (+178) Created page with "hello, i'm R3D, and i have created some esolangs (Deadmind, LTCBCBYCII, RPL) check it out if you can contact me (if any interpreter bugs): discord: R3D#9999 github: redleader167" 15:59:52 [[User:R3D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86797&oldid=86796 * R3D * (+4) 16:39:30 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:51:25 -!- arseniiv has quit (Quit: gone too far). 16:54:48 -!- arseniiv has joined. 17:29:05 -!- spruit11_ has joined. 17:29:19 -!- spruit11_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:30:36 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:31:22 -!- spruit11 has joined. 17:55:28 [[Pith]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86798&oldid=86407 * ZippyMagician * (+1318) Clean up page 17:57:55 [[Pith]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86799&oldid=86798 * ZippyMagician * (+14) Change wording of - operator notes 18:01:23 ok here's my plan 18:01:45 since we have a lot of short strings, it should be ok to just make a histogram of every contiguous substring of each string 18:01:59 I think that means you multiply the number of strings by T(n) essentially 18:02:08 O(m * n^2) 18:02:13 m number of strings, n length of strings 18:02:43 then i want to pick ones that have a good score 18:03:03 where score is some function that likes length and frequency 18:03:14 possibly log(length) 18:03:36 there's a lot of free parameters to mess with there, which is not great 18:04:12 what do you think of this approach? 18:17:44 sorry to interrupt 18:17:47 `? password 18:17:54 The password of the month is too long for this irc message 18:18:02 ha :) 18:30:52 -!- arseniiv has quit (Quit: gone too far). 18:31:07 -!- arseniiv has joined. 18:33:51 -!- arseniiv has quit (Client Quit). 18:38:44 -!- arseniiv has joined. 19:01:18 -!- Koen_ has joined. 19:13:13 [[LTMCBCBYCII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86800 * R3D * (+4838) Created page with "Esolang, created by [[User:R3D|R3D]] in July 2021. Full name is Language That May Cause Brain Cancer But You Can Ignore It, the shortest one is BCL. Heavily inspired by IN..." 19:26:14 -!- vyv has joined. 19:40:23 hm so the problem I have with my idea is that I get substrings of substrings in my output 19:42:19 nakilon, https://bpa.st/5P6A 19:42:41 i dont think its as good as your approach 19:53:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:59:35 > k -common substring problem: Given m strings of total length n, for all k with 2≤k≤m simultaneously find a longest substring common to at least k of the strings. It is known that the k-common substring problem can also be solved in O(n) time 19:59:37 :1:46: error: parse error on input ‘of’ 20:22:13 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 20:30:18 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 20:33:56 -!- dutch has joined. 20:38:15 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:54:35 My opinion is I think that the POSIXLY_CORRECT mode of getopt is better. 20:55:50 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:56:31 POSIXLY_CORRECT? lol 20:59:00 zzo38: for getopt, I agree that it's better than the GNU mode 20:59:07 but I can mostly deal with both 20:59:28 -!- delta23 has joined. 20:59:41 I try to write my scripts in a way that they work with both when I invoke a program, so put options first but still put ./ at the start of filenames that start with a hyphen etc 20:59:54 and -e before a grep pattern that starts with a hyphen 21:01:56 So, the implementation I wrote in PostScript is always using the POSIXLY_CORRECT 21:02:35 But when I write script calling other programs also I will do things like you mention, and using -- in case there might need other file names/arguments with - at first, too 21:04:02 [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86801&oldid=86717 * Oshaboy * (+6) Formatting 21:07:49 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:10:47 -!- Thelie has joined. 22:29:36 [[Excellerated Short-Term Memory Loss]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86802&oldid=86308 * PolySaken * (+70) /* Computational Class */ 22:47:25 [[Excellerated Short-Term Memory Loss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86803&oldid=86802 * PolySaken * (-70) /* Computational Class */ 22:53:19 [[Unhaltingfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86804 * Silver * (+1680) page created, along with haltingfuck 22:53:21 [[Haltingfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86805 * Silver * (+1472) page created, along with unhaltingfuck 22:54:54 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86806&oldid=86771 * Silver * (+38) 22:58:07 [[User:Silver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86807&oldid=86284 * Silver * (+74) 23:28:00 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2021-08-02: 00:19:00 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 00:28:54 [[Haltingfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86808&oldid=86805 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-22) /* UnHaltingFuck */ Cat 01:17:10 [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86809&oldid=86326 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* Instructions */ 01:17:35 [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86810&oldid=86809 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Instructions */ 02:36:09 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:38:56 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:39:22 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:05:15 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 03:06:14 -!- perlbot has joined. 04:03:35 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:04:02 -!- hendursaga has joined. 04:29:55 -!- delta23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:30:14 -!- delta23 has joined. 04:41:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:51:21 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:03:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:18:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:19:30 -!- SGautam has joined. 06:22:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:23:32 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:23:34 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:57:43 21:03:36 there's a lot of free parameters to mess with 06:57:48 I had only two 06:58:32 one real parameter and another one -- I took only 15000 of 50000 of input strings, heh, or it would take a day to calculate 06:59:29 22:42:20 nakilon, https://bpa.st/5P6A 06:59:36 yeah only 3 first are good, the rest is broken 07:01:21 the next valid word is only 37, and 20 is a Russian word if you strip the _ 07:01:47 rabota = job 07:02:56 I suppose 15000 is big enough to not miss popular words, among the top-100 list that it produced 07:03:16 the next 100 had several errors, didn't count 07:08:44 117 nofficial 160 erchat 164 ernet 175 nchain etc. and some of them are weird but can be real words from languages I don't know 07:57:28 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:06:05 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:26 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:58:13 Stupid chrome forgets basic auth both on desktop and mobile 08:58:28 I use it for my thelounge 09:14:18 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:39:36 -!- arseniiv has joined. 10:24:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:34:26 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:34:47 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 11:38:04 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:52:47 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:40:49 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:04:23 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Gducrash * New user account 13:15:11 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86811&oldid=86795 * Gducrash * (+229) /* Introductions */ 13:23:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:42:45 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zouguangchen * New user account 14:18:32 [[LTMCBCBYCII]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86812&oldid=86800 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-4) Unpipe 14:21:50 -!- arseniiv has joined. 15:31:43 -!- imode has joined. 15:40:42 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:46:41 -!- riv has joined. 16:27:31 hi 16:28:20 `" 16:28:22 1/1:892) okay so like do Or do not? no no do There is no do not. \ 824) Do physicists have half-life crises? 16:29:57 wow 16:30:02 `', 16:30:06 ​',? No such file or directory 16:30:41 `' 16:30:43 852) yes Windows 98 installer, please perform a bad blocks scan of your virtual emulated hard drive you have no idea how completely i control your so-called reality 16:30:49 A single quote and a double quote. Checks out. 16:33:53 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:02 https://gitlab.com/gpsd/gpsd/-/issues/144 is funny: "We would have gotten away with it too if there had been a leap second in the meantime" 17:03:10 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:06:35 Woah, I'd never heard of global warming making Earth spin faster. 17:07:14 (apparently explaining the recent lack of leap seconds) 17:07:29 we literally can't predict leap seconds 17:07:38 there's never been any leap seconds removed either 17:08:10 that's what I thought so far :P 17:09:42 Hmm, maybe I have the orders of magnitude incorrect. 17:10:38 [[User:Epidemic7]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86813&oldid=83961 * Epidemic7 * (-220) Blanked the page 17:12:53 So, eh, not sure it explains anything. But it's still an interesting phenomenon. I /think/ it says that the effect slightly outweighs the tidal slowdown in their scenario, resulting in a speedup of 0.12ms over 200 years rather than a slowdown by 4.6ms. 17:13:14 But the article could be written more clearly... 17:14:24 I read that the causes of variation of spin time are not all known 17:14:30 and the ones that are known are chaotic 17:16:20 More weirdness: "Over the past 3000 years, the core of the Earth has been speeding up a little, and the mantle-crust on which we stand is slowing down." https://phys.org/news/2015-12-scientists-reveal-rotation-earth-core.html 17:16:37 D: 17:19:17 Ah, at least there are a couple of mechanisms that I can understand: 1) As glaciers melt, melted water moves closer to the Earth's axis. 2) As arctic and antarctic ice melt, there's less pressure pushing the poles into the earth, so it becomes a little bit rounder, moving the whole surface closer to the center. 17:19:42 And by "understand" I mean they're plausible :P 17:20:29 I have no hope of estimating how big those effects are without some serious study. 17:23:56 (Which won't happen :P) 17:26:01 [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86814&oldid=86780 * TheJonyMyster * (+32) cornercase 17:36:07 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 17:37:05 -!- hendursaga has joined. 17:55:15 -!- lukalot_ has joined. 18:02:04 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:04:10 -!- arseniiv has joined. 18:17:46 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86815&oldid=86791 * KakkoiiChris * (-57) Reduced section levels by one, and added a 'Design Pattern' section 18:19:18 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:19:42 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86816&oldid=86815 * KakkoiiChris * (-24) /* History */ Removed section separators 18:22:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:36:34 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86817&oldid=86816 * KakkoiiChris * (+152) /* Values */ Testing same page link 18:36:56 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86818&oldid=86817 * KakkoiiChris * (+0) /* Values */ 18:40:09 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86819&oldid=86818 * KakkoiiChris * (+5) /* Values */ Added note about integers and conversion 18:42:11 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86820&oldid=86819 * KakkoiiChris * (-7) /* V4 */ Changed wording of data type in last paragraph 18:44:04 -!- lukalot__ has joined. 18:44:05 -!- lukalot__ has quit (Client Quit). 18:44:37 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86821&oldid=86820 * KakkoiiChris * (+80) /* V5 */ Added memory space upgrade to new features added 18:57:40 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86822&oldid=86821 * KakkoiiChris * (+484) Added more planned sections 18:57:58 [[User:ZippyMagician]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86823&oldid=86408 * ZippyMagician * (-2) Remove befunge from favorites 19:03:36 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86824&oldid=86822 * KakkoiiChris * (-5) /* History */ Moved sentence from V2 to V1 19:09:48 -!- riv has joined. 19:22:42 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:33:29 [[AsciiFunc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86825 * Gducrash * (+1400) Initial release (work in progress) 19:42:33 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:44:24 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:04:57 Swiss Ephemeris has a function for tidal acceleration; is that related to things that you mention? 20:09:14 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86826&oldid=86806 * TheJonyMyster * (+14) added headass to language list 20:12:46 -!- riv has joined. 20:32:58 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86827&oldid=86824 * KakkoiiChris * (+5251) /* Command Line Tool */ Filled out all CLI sections 20:36:51 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86828&oldid=86827 * KakkoiiChris * (+261) /* File */ Elaborated on the Interpreter return value 20:38:22 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86829&oldid=86828 * KakkoiiChris * (+34) /* File */ Fixed wording in last sentence 20:39:47 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86830&oldid=86829 * KakkoiiChris * (-18) /* Numbers */ Added table header 20:40:17 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86831&oldid=86830 * KakkoiiChris * (-10) /* Booleans */ Added table header 20:41:19 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86832&oldid=86831 * KakkoiiChris * (-27) /* Characters */ Added table header 20:44:51 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:47:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 20:50:05 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86833&oldid=86832 * KakkoiiChris * (+1) /* Characters */ Fixed wording 21:26:55 -!- delta23 has joined. 21:27:25 -!- Melvar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:48:38 Ah, IBM Ponder This is back to normal (a bit of number crunching). 21:49:13 But is it really a "Starship" if it doesn't get any closer to any other star than the one it starts next to? 21:52:29 Where did starships come up? 21:55:17 They didn't, that was apropos of nothing. 21:55:54 I was reading an article about some photos Uncle Elon had posted in the context of an orbital visit. 21:56:20 Well, still lifes aren't considered to be starships, so maybe that's your answer. 21:56:40 Ah, that thing. 21:57:06 Aren't those called spaceships in Life anyway? 21:57:08 -!- Thelie has joined. 21:57:50 Ah, right. 21:58:20 If Elon's was called the Spaceship, I couldn't complain, because it does go to space. 21:58:56 I see. What about a solar probe? 21:59:53 I guess that could be a starship. Have we actually sent anything into the Sun though? 22:00:40 "The Parker Solar Probe is the first spacecraft to fly into the low solar corona." Maybe that will count. 22:01:29 Although they say it'll be "within 9.86 solar radii -- from the center of the Sun", and I guess really it should be strictly less than 1. 22:01:48 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:02:39 "The solar radius is usually defined as the radius to the layer in the Sun's photosphere where the optical depth equals 2/3." Sounds pretty arbitrary. 22:03:25 oh, so it's not a starship unless it actually burns up in one? 22:05:07 Well, I mean, I think that's maybe a little negative. But I think maybe it should either touch a star, or alternatively there should exist a point during its journey when the nearest star is not the same as at some other point. 22:05:14 Hmm, can C++ break out of several loops without using goto yet... 22:05:23 (not exceptions) 22:05:29 s/not/nor/ 22:06:26 I don't think they've added that. 22:06:30 Pfft: "No, don't spoil it with a break. This is the last remaining stronghold for the use of goto." 22:06:47 I mean the Vikings already knew that burning ships is the way to go. 22:07:13 Which languages have a multi-level break where the operand is an integer denoting the number of loops to break, rather than a label? And of those languages, how many allow the integer to be non-constant? 22:07:30 PHP at least. 22:07:33 Oh boy. 22:07:46 Actually, I don't know if it can be a non-constant, but I'd sort of expect. 22:08:44 "PHP Fatal error: 'break' operator with non-integer operand is no longer supported" :/ :\ 22:08:54 I do note the "no longer" in there though. 22:09:06 TFW... bugs make your program better. 22:11:40 PHP is now developed by a bunch of cowards. 22:11:47 I bet they don't use strlen as their hash function anymore either. 22:18:50 fizzie: I think dc has such a multi-level break 22:19:31 UGH, why do people hate contrast so much 22:19:59 (cf. source code examples from https://esolangs.org/wiki/Minim ...except for the yellow used for brackets) 22:20:09 it's the Q command in dc 22:21:27 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:21:50 int-e: That's a pretty excessive example. Especially the string literals and comments. 22:22:28 fizzie: oh, and there's Intercal, I think it has a dynamic multi-level break too 22:22:45 -!- Melvar has quit (Client Quit). 22:23:06 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:23:41 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86834&oldid=86833 * KakkoiiChris * (+144) /* Statements */ Added Memory Push and Memory Pop stubs 22:24:16 well, it's a multi-level return 22:24:26 (same for dc) 22:24:35 it's not quite the same :P 22:25:06 "This is because the easiest way to implement an if-like construct in INTERCAL-72 is by NEXTING, then NEXTING again, then RESUMING either by 1 or 2 according to an expression, and then if the expression evaluated to 1 FORGETTING the remaining NEXT stack entry." It's a nice manual. 22:25:35 does words (the program in HackEso) have an evaluate mode, as opposed to a generate mode, so that you give it a word, and it outputs the information (log probability) in it based on the model? 22:26:09 I don't think it has that implemented. 22:26:21 int-e: ok, but in dc about the only way to write a loop is by repeatedly executing a macro, so that's what a multi-level break should look like 22:26:27 as in tail-recursing a macro 22:26:55 yeah, which is why I only interjected when you brought it up for intercal 22:27:50 I think you need some lexical blocks in the language in order for a dynamic multi-level break to feel ridiculous. 22:28:12 Can a PHP break cross function boundaries? 22:28:21 I think I saw something like this in a language besides the ones we mentioned 22:28:58 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86835&oldid=86834 * KakkoiiChris * (+4) /* Fibonacci */ Added link 22:29:25 I ended up with this... https://paste.debian.net/1206394/ (top: what I wanted, bottom: the result) 22:30:24 err, I messed up the hypothetical code, didn't I. 22:30:26 whatever 22:31:36 ah yes, (0) has multi-level break using a number that gives the depth, but only for a constant depth, not dynamic. the language spec doesn't say if it works past a function boundary, I assumed no because that was convenient because I wanted to transpile the language, not implement something in it. 22:32:09 that's where I must have seen it 22:32:56 `BEGIN AGAIN` in Forth is an infinite loop, which doesn't really fit the English meaning of that sentence fragment. 22:32:57 BEGIN? No such file or directory 22:36:07 Wonder if there's any production Forth code that says at some point ... THEN BEGIN AGAIN ... that's there, e.g., to give a supposedly unreachable piece of code defined semantics of just hanging up in there. 22:38:42 `` ulimit -t 1; forth ': foo if ." all good" exit then begin again ; 0 foo' # or something along those lines 22:38:44 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: 52 Killed forth ': foo if ." all good" exit then begin again ; 0 foo' 22:42:21 fizzie: is that like the infamous {redo} in perl? 22:43:33 which geo knows as (*) 22:43:57 (shows that you can express useless stuff easily in that language, but not useful stuff) 22:45:43 apparently today's https://xkcd.com/2497/ mentions something that has come up often on #esoteric 22:53:23 Forth control structures are pretty flexible. The compilation semantics of `BEGIN` push the address of the next word to the control-flow stack, and `AGAIN` pops it. `UNTIL` is the same except it also pops a value at run-time to decide whether to follow the branch or not. So while you can use BEGIN ... UNTIL for `do {...} while (!cond)` and `BEGIN ... AGAIN` for `for (;;) {...}` loops, you 22:53:24 can also just mix the words up if you happen to need something strange. (I'm not very good at Forth.) 22:55:32 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86836&oldid=86835 * KakkoiiChris * (+15313) /* Fibonacci */ Added syntax highlighting 23:05:58 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86837&oldid=86836 * KakkoiiChris * (+37) /* Characters */ Added double quote 23:06:25 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86838&oldid=86837 * KakkoiiChris * (+0) /* Characters */ Fixed double quote name 23:11:11 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86839&oldid=86838 * KakkoiiChris * (+152) /* Size (-s) */ Added formatting to examples 23:12:18 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86840&oldid=86839 * KakkoiiChris * (-5) /* Comments */ Removed separators 23:12:38 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86841&oldid=86840 * KakkoiiChris * (-5) /* Memory */ Removed separators 23:13:33 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86842&oldid=86841 * KakkoiiChris * (-35) /* Memory */ Removed separators 23:13:56 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86843&oldid=86842 * KakkoiiChris * (-10) /* Memory */ Removed separators 23:15:14 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:36:56 I don't like the conditions of dc much and I think that arithmetic if would be a better command to add into dc for implementing conditions 23:47:24 [[Talk:Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86844&oldid=79818 * CosmicMan08 * (+610) /* Python Interpreter */ new section 2021-08-03: 00:07:06 -!- immibis_ has joined. 00:07:41 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:12:03 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 00:32:21 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:32:22 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:22 -!- jryans has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:32:22 -!- craigoverend[m] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:33:45 -!- jryans has joined. 00:35:04 -!- dutch has joined. 00:42:50 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:42:50 -!- craigoverend[m] has joined. 00:43:03 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 01:11:56 -!- lukalot__ has joined. 01:14:39 -!- lukalot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:30:29 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86845&oldid=86843 * KakkoiiChris * (+2277) /* Operators */ Added the rest of the unique operators 01:55:47 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86846&oldid=86845 * KakkoiiChris * (+547) /* Statements */ Elaborated on the statements 02:03:56 [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86847&oldid=86740 * Digital Hunter * (-18) /* Parse this sic */ shorter 02:17:01 -!- lukalot__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:22:52 [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86848&oldid=86847 * Digital Hunter * (-55) /* Parse this sic */ sorry about the recent edit spree. Most compliant interpreter I could come up with, and it's pretty cute too. Tested thoroughly. 02:28:06 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86849&oldid=86846 * KakkoiiChris * (+601) /* Design Patterns */ Added exit design pattern. 02:29:35 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86850&oldid=86849 * KakkoiiChris * (+56) /* Goto (_<) */ Updated goto definition 02:30:07 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86851&oldid=86850 * KakkoiiChris * (+55) /* Gosub (_+) */ Updated gosub definition 02:57:34 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 02:58:26 -!- dutch has joined. 04:30:00 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86852&oldid=86851 * KakkoiiChris * (+5) /* Design Patterns */ Fixed typo 04:36:58 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86853&oldid=86852 * KakkoiiChris * (+82) Added to paradigms in info box 04:39:40 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86854&oldid=86853 * KakkoiiChris * (+104) Added categories 05:08:29 -!- esolangs has joined. 05:08:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v esolangs. 05:11:42 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 05:46:55 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86855&oldid=86854 * KakkoiiChris * (+199) /* Comments */ Added syntax highlighting 05:51:54 -!- V__ has changed nick to V. 05:52:47 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86856&oldid=86855 * KakkoiiChris * (+411) /* Values */ Added syntax highlighting 05:54:10 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86857&oldid=86856 * KakkoiiChris * (+2724) /* Arrays */ Added syntax highlighting 06:02:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:17:31 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86858&oldid=86857 * KakkoiiChris * (+8542) /* Memory */ Added syntax highlighting 06:19:52 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86859&oldid=86858 * KakkoiiChris * (+12) /* Relative Range Access */ Added syntax highlighting 06:20:04 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:22:44 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:25:19 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:25:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:34:16 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:47:53 Does any format use floating point RLE? 07:14:52 -!- riv has joined. 07:53:17 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:05:54 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:54 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:17:29 [[Ppencode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86860 * YamTokTpaFa * (+4674) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''ppencode''' is #a subset of [[Wikipedia:Perl|Perl]] who restricts source code to have only Perl keywords, defined by Yoshino TAKESAKO in 2005, #a Perl program..." 08:19:24 [[Ppencode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86861&oldid=86860 * YamTokTpaFa * (+1) /* Syntax */ 09:47:17 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86862&oldid=86811 * Zouguangchen * (+73) 09:49:41 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86863&oldid=86862 * Zouguangchen * (+62) 09:56:29 [[AsciiFunc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86864&oldid=86825 * Gducrash * (+5792) Added syntax rules and a list of commands 09:58:38 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Gducrash * uploaded "[[File:Ucrash.jpg]]" 10:00:37 [[User:Gducrash]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86866 * Gducrash * (+147) My page yay! 10:11:35 [[AsciiFunc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86867&oldid=86864 * Gducrash * (+92) Added categories 10:12:55 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86868&oldid=86826 * Gducrash * (+16) added AsciiFunc 10:23:31 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:37:29 [[AsciiFunc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86869&oldid=86867 * Gducrash * (+1829) Added examples, improved syntax description and infobox 10:46:04 -!- integral_ has changed nick to integral. 11:14:05 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Gabryx64 * New user account 11:20:57 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86870&oldid=86863 * Gabryx64 * (+192) /* Introductions */ 11:21:18 [[User:Gabryx64]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86871 * Gabryx64 * (+2) Created page with "Hi" 11:29:32 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:42:49 [[SussyLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86872 * Gabryx64 * (+663) Sus 11:43:24 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86873&oldid=86872 * Gabryx64 * (-2) /* Sussylang */ 11:45:34 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86874&oldid=86868 * Gabryx64 * (+16) /* S */ 11:47:10 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86875&oldid=86874 * Gabryx64 * (+0) Undo revision 86874 by [[Special:Contributions/Gabryx64|Gabryx64]] ([[User talk:Gabryx64|talk]]) 11:48:49 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86876&oldid=86373 * Gabryx64 * (+33) /* General languages */ 11:58:11 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86877&oldid=86873 * Gabryx64 * (-7) /* Truth Machine */ 11:58:20 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86878&oldid=86877 * Gabryx64 * (-7) /* Sussy World!(\n) */ 12:05:31 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 12:19:30 -!- dutch has joined. 12:22:00 [[User:R3D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86879&oldid=86797 * R3D * (+1) 12:53:16 [[Aboba]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86880 * R3D * (+2383) Created page with "An esolang created in 1 day. Inspired by Brainfuck, but very different from it. Should be turing complete. Extensions: .b. ===Instructions=== {| class="wiki..." 13:03:33 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86881&oldid=86878 * Gabryx64 * (+0) /* Sussylang */ 13:03:38 [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86882&oldid=86814 * TheJonyMyster * (+1063) turing complete!! woo!! 13:35:33 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:36:01 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:39:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 13:43:29 [[SussyLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86883&oldid=86881 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) Cats 13:49:59 [[User:Gabryx64/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86884 * Gabryx64 * (+51) Created page with "#html { filter: invert(1) hue-rotate(180deg); }" 13:51:33 [[User:Gabryx64/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86885&oldid=86884 * Gabryx64 * (+6) 13:51:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:52:46 [[User:Gabryx64/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86886&oldid=86885 * Gabryx64 * (-57) Blanked the page 14:01:16 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86887&oldid=86882 * TheJonyMyster * (-12) 14:02:58 hmm. we could try to make a bait-and-switch joke about how 2020 is the longest year, not because of the pandemic, but because it has both 366 days and 53 weeks. that has last happened in 2004, and will happen in 2032 next. 14:03:58 or perhaps we could make a doom prophecies about a new pandemic in 2032 14:06:16 Was there a pandemic in 2004? 14:07:34 Bird flu was 2004 14:08:12 Which was a pandemic scare rather than an actual pandemic 14:55:21 -!- arseniiv has joined. 15:18:25 -!- delta23 has joined. 15:31:37 -!- riv has joined. 15:36:18 -!- SGautam has joined. 16:15:32 -!- arseniiv has quit (Quit: gone too far). 16:16:23 -!- imode has joined. 16:17:39 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:40:43 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:40:56 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:42:54 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:54 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 18:01:00 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Braden * New user account 18:02:42 -!- perlbot has joined. 18:03:12 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 18:04:20 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86888&oldid=86870 * Braden * (+206) Braden has joined the party 18:05:55 [[User:Braden]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86889 * Braden * (+77) Created page with "I'm Braden, creator of [https://gitlab.com/bradenbest/stacky Stacky/Stackyzi]" 18:07:17 [[User:Braden]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86890&oldid=86889 * Braden * (+147) Mention bfvm 18:16:50 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:33 https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2805/scientists-id-three-causes-of-earths-spin-axis-drift/ 18:43:03 -!- Koen_ has joined. 19:10:10 fizzie: I could’ve sworn I had some forth code that went like `begin while repeat` or similar, doing the branch check in the middle of the loop body so the first half of the loop body has do-while-like execution and the second half while-like. I can’t find said code now though. 19:10:35 That's a thing too, yes. 19:10:53 I omitted it because I couldn't really write the C equivalent. 19:11:56 Yeah that was more answering to the “mix the words up if you need something strange” part. 19:13:44 Yes, although arguably in that case that's specifically what those three words (well, except `begin`, it's more generic) have been designed to do. But I feel like I've seen Forth code that just uses one of the existing control flow words in a really unintuitive place, because it happens to have the right effect. 19:15:43 * Melvar nodnods. 19:23:16 Now that you mention it, it's actually a little confusing how `while` and `until` aren't just aliases with the condition inverted. Instead, `while repeat` is the counterpart of `until`. Or `0= until` would also do it, I guess. 19:32:26 This is the advantage of Forth; it is a kind of structures that can be useful in programming 20:46:29 imagine you have a function in the form (pseudocode): int muldiv(int x, y, z) = x * y / z is there any language in which you would expect to get the assembly output as something like mov eax, edi; mov ecx, edx; imul esi; idiv ecx; ret 20:47:02 that is, without a sign extend throwing away upper half of the multiplication result? 20:54:05 so does `begin` push the PC to a control stack at runtime, or does it push the PC to a compile control stack and then some other control structure assembles the address from that compile control stack? 20:54:13 I tried gfortran, several C compilers, rust, and freebasic; all of them outputted some kind of sign-extent instruction 20:56:11 oren: no, but if you write short instead of int for the parameter type then sure 20:56:27 why would that matter? 20:56:54 ooh right, those automatic conversions 20:56:56 because the C language will coerce the shorts to ints before you multiply 20:57:25 though of course that only extends on the now common platforms where shorts are 16 bit wide but ints are 32 bit wide 20:58:40 no, I still get a sign-extend 21:03:47 it converts to 32 bit, but then still sign-extends upper 32 bits of result even though they're guaranteed to already be 21:10:21 b_jonas: AIUI, it's the latter. As in: BEGIN pushes a backwards branch destination to the (control flow, though sometimes it's just the one) stack as part of its compilation semantics, and compiles into nothing; and likewise AGAIN pops a branch destination from there and compiles into an unconditional jump. 21:10:29 Similarly with `IF ... THEN`, except in that case IF compiles into a to-be forward jump and pushes something that represents an unresolved target, which THEN pops off and uses to set the destination address. None of these words have any valid interpretation semantics. 21:10:35 `forth begin again 21:10:36 ​ \ *OS command line*:-1: Interpreting a compile-only word \ >>>begin<<< again bye \ Backtrace: \ $40393B30 throw 21:12:43 Though there are special interpreter directive versions, [if], [then], [begin], [repeat] that can be used in the interpreter mode to conditionally compile things and so on. 21:18:02 `forth : ex 1 if ." true" else ." false" then cr ; ex see ex 21:18:04 true \ \ : ex \ 1 \ IF .\" true" \ ELSE .\" false" \ THEN \ cr ; 21:18:11 `forth : ex [ 1 ] [if] ." true" [else] ." false" [then] cr ; ex see ex 21:18:12 true \ \ : ex \ .\" true" cr ; 21:53:30 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86891&oldid=86887 * TheJonyMyster * (+3) format 21:55:53 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:56:31 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86892&oldid=86891 * TheJonyMyster * (-67) /* Computational class */ 21:57:41 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86893&oldid=86892 * TheJonyMyster * (+12) 21:59:08 fizzie: ok. but I understand there's still a runtime control stack for subroutines 21:59:32 are all these words case-insensitive? the mix of uppercase and lowercase is confusing 21:59:59 but if they're case-insensitive that would explain it 22:00:30 Yes, there's a return stack. And yes, I think Forths are often case-insensitive, and Gforth at least is. 22:01:07 Apparently you can have special case-sensitive wordlists as well if you want. 22:02:15 https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Case-insensitivity.html "Two people have asked how to convert Gforth to be case-sensitive; while we think this is a bad idea, you can change all wordlists into tables like this: ' table-find forth-wordlist wordlist-map ! 22:02:17 Note that you now have to type the predefined words in the same case that we defined them, which are varying. You may want to convert them to your favourite case before doing this operation (I won't explain how, because if you are even contemplating doing this, you'd better have enough knowledge of Forth systems to know this already)." 22:47:02 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:53:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:01:29 -!- Thelie has joined. 23:40:46 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:05 What kind of lossless compression is suitable for short sound effects, rather than music or speech? 2021-08-04: 01:15:36 ok, so it's probably like basic, which is case sensitive, so on old computers people used all upper case, because that worked well with the old printers and monitors, but now people more and more prefer more readable mostly lower case, with some upper case initials 02:23:04 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86894&oldid=86893 * TheJonyMyster * (+251) formatting in comp class 02:42:12 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86895&oldid=86859 * KakkoiiChris * (+40) /* Operators */ Added evaluation order 02:46:40 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86896&oldid=86895 * KakkoiiChris * (-79) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added syntax highlighting 02:46:58 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86897&oldid=86896 * KakkoiiChris * (+316) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added line 1 02:47:34 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86898&oldid=86897 * KakkoiiChris * (+316) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added line 2 02:55:07 -!- KakkoiiChris has joined. 03:08:00 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 03:11:29 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Client Quit). 03:17:54 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:18:37 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 03:21:11 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Client Quit). 03:21:49 I was told by the Discord that I should ask here for some help with the rate limit on my lang's wiki page? 03:21:53 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 03:22:39 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:23:51 [[Talk:Got a match?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86899 * TheJonyMyster * (+308) i may be stupid, 03:24:11 [[Talk:Got a match?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86900&oldid=86899 * TheJonyMyster * (+4) fixed format 03:24:23 This would be a good place to ask. I don't recall who could help with that, though. 03:30:20 -!- spruit11 has joined. 03:35:52 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:46:56 -!- spruit11 has joined. 03:51:28 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:19:52 -!- spruit11 has joined. 04:24:36 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:30:06 [[Cpy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86901 * ZippyMagician * (+3259) Main page for cpy, info 04:30:08 [[Cpy/Converter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86902 * ZippyMagician * (+1379) Add converter (bf -> cpy) 04:31:07 [[User:ZippyMagician]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86903&oldid=86823 * ZippyMagician * (+9) Add cpy 04:31:33 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86904&oldid=86875 * ZippyMagician * (+10) Add cpy 04:31:50 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 04:32:03 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:08:08 -!- spruit11 has joined. 05:12:47 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:25:25 -!- spruit11 has joined. 05:30:10 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:43:50 -!- spruit11 has joined. 05:50:57 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:05:24 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 06:24:25 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:24:38 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:25:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:52 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:37:58 -!- Hakerh400 has joined. 06:39:16 -!- Hakerh400 has quit (Client Quit). 07:13:54 -!- spruit11 has joined. 07:26:52 -!- KakkoiiChris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:02:00 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:06:18 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:20 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:14:37 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:50:45 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:32:33 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 10:51:22 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:53:19 [[Talk:SussyLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86905 * Gabryx64 * (+188) Created page with "sussy imposter baka ..." 11:13:37 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86906&oldid=86883 * Gabryx64 * (+1618) 11:14:31 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86907&oldid=86906 * Gabryx64 * (+1) 12:08:16 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:38:26 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:57:02 [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86908&oldid=86907 * Gabryx64 * (+2360) /* SussyLang */ 13:04:01 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:04:33 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:12:19 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 13:14:43 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:21:46 -!- lukalot_ has joined. 13:35:23 [[Cpy/Converter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86909&oldid=86902 * ZippyMagician * (+401) Fix bug in converter 13:37:41 [[Cpy/Converter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86910&oldid=86909 * ZippyMagician * (+14) Add back button 13:38:35 [[Cpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86911&oldid=86901 * ZippyMagician * (-54) Update page with fixes 13:39:43 [[Cpy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86912&oldid=86911 * ZippyMagician * (-8) /* About */ 13:39:44 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 13:42:48 [[Cpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86913&oldid=86912 * ZippyMagician * (+129) Fix translation guide to account for bug 13:56:45 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 13:58:31 [[Cpy/Converter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86914&oldid=86910 * ZippyMagician * (-1794) Blanked the page 13:59:25 [[Cpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86915&oldid=86913 * ZippyMagician * (-1751) 14:08:38 -!- andydude has joined. 14:08:45 [[Cpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86916&oldid=86915 * ZippyMagician * (+696) Update to actually work 14:09:31 [[Cpy/Converter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86917&oldid=86914 * ZippyMagician * (+13) Add back link 14:10:25 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:12:14 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 14:16:44 -!- monoxane6 has joined. 14:18:57 -!- monoxane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:18:57 -!- monoxane6 has changed nick to monoxane. 14:23:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:40:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:41:31 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:41:48 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 14:55:23 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 14:55:40 -!- hendursaga has joined. 14:56:11 -!- hendursaga has quit (Client Quit). 14:56:35 -!- hendursaga has joined. 15:07:17 -!- monoxane has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:15:29 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:19:32 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 15:21:29 -!- monoxane has joined. 15:26:34 -!- sprock has joined. 15:36:10 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:36:42 -!- imode has joined. 15:38:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:39:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:43:06 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 15:49:11 -!- andydude has quit (Quit: andydude). 15:50:09 -!- KakkoiiChris has joined. 16:06:38 -!- V has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:15:24 -!- ski has joined. 16:15:43 -!- V has joined. 16:21:22 -!- V has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:35:23 KakkoiiChris: are you there? i can disable the size filter for a moment for you 16:37:31 otoh it _is_ a rather large page, so i might recommend splitting up 16:40:58 or i could do this... 16:42:50 [[Cpy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86918&oldid=86916 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) Fix cat 16:43:21 -!- V has joined. 16:45:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:45:40 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:46:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:48:22 -!- KakkoiiChris has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:54:59 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:04:36 does anyone remember how did exactly that "collection of puzzles" with Loopy reach this channel a week-two ago? 17:05:18 -!- joast has joined. 17:05:49 btw, velik is currently down due to the ongoing migration between hostings 17:10:21 which collection of puzzles 17:11:53 oerjan that's how that website with Loopy called 17:13:25 https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-07.html#lB9 shows you were the first to mention loopy last month 17:14:12 and fizzie mentioned the collection a few messages above 17:14:29 but of course, we've discussed that many times over the years 17:14:53 I see 17:15:11 i'm pretty sure i learned it first on #esoteric 17:15:19 but not at all sure when 17:15:25 *learned of it 17:16:49 in fact, i usually have one of those puzzles open on my laptop at any given time (currently Dominosa) 17:18:17 cycling alphabetically whenever i tire of the previous one or windows nags about rebooting, mostly 17:18:35 -!- riv has joined. 17:25:05 2009-02-07 18:34:06: "Trojan horse Generic12.BJXH" it says \ 18:34:19: in [t]atham's puzzle connection? 17:25:23 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:26:33 connection 17:28:26 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:30:12 wait are you saying i might have mentioned it first? 17:32:38 hm that doesn't sound like a first mention 17:36:47 or rather, i'm speaking as if i've already played that collection for quite a while 17:40:20 oerjan: the site had been mentioned earlier, but the first proper link to the puzzle collection as a whole was 2009-06-30 15:53:07: Also "mines" at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ claims to do it 17:40:27 (the web version, that is) 17:42:58 how common is it that someone becomes king/queen in a hereditary monarchy (hereditary interpreted broadly) before they are born? 17:43:32 eg. if their father was the king and they die before the child is born 17:45:31 and the award for the least expected question goes to... 17:48:20 i'm sure we've seen less expected ones. but not sure if they were also from b_jonas ;) 17:48:30 sorry, I was just thinking about the primogeniture succession rule for the king of Great Britain and Ireland 17:49:22 and there's the implication that if you don't want to turn a monarch to not a monarch while they're alive without them abdicating or forced to abdicate because of some scandal, then you need to accept that the unborn child of their recently dead uncle needs to be king 17:49:56 this was probably even funnier with the old male primogeniture rule and without ultrasounds good enough to predict the gender of an unborn child 17:50:51 a real sidesplitter 17:51:27 and the problem could come up for other hereditary monarchy positions with a different monarch 17:52:10 so I expect the question must have come up at least a few times in history 17:52:35 i'm pretty sure i've read of examples, i just cannot remember them 17:52:59 it could even cause religious problems, like if the king is required to be Christian, which requires a ceremony of baptism, which is generally done after birth 17:54:59 not that that part is my problem, let the relevant church deal with figuring out the rules for that 17:56:53 and you could say that with the decreasing political power that European kings/queens have now, who is the king/queen is also less likely to be my problem in the 21th century 17:58:58 -!- Guest9 has joined. 17:59:36 -!- Guest9 has quit (Client Quit). 17:59:37 i looked at w:regency to see if it mentioned this case, but no 17:59:48 er *w:regent 18:02:01 imagine a King becoming a Queen 18:03:00 nakilon: I don't think that would matter much, king and queen are just different english words for effectively the same meaning here 18:03:01 what a shock for the kingdom 18:06:03 I mean as far as I understand, the U.K. had new coins cast with different portraits of Queen Elizabeth II just because she aged, so they could do the same with a king who changes to a queen 18:07:06 and there's all sort of text that's quickly changed between "His Majesty" vs "Her Majesty", it's not like that change itself matters much 18:08:43 like, if there's a queen, and he dies, and there's a new king, and you take an oath to serve the queen after the king died but before the news reached you, that wouldn't even invalidate the oath, because you're taking an oath to serve the position, including future rightful queens, not just the current king 18:18:42 * oerjan appreciates b_jonas's return to pronominal slipup there 18:19:30 i haven't noticed you doing that in a while 18:24:15 hmm https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/tents.html is still annoying :P 18:25:31 I love tents 18:26:49 solved it 18:27:43 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:28:08 ah 18:28:14 ones I like: dominosa, light up, loopy, magnets, pearl, signpost, tents, tracks, undead, unruly, untangle 18:28:26 riv: The annoying bit is that there's no way to mark trees 18:29:18 -!- mnrmnaughmnrgle has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:29:32 there's some good puzzles not in simon tathams collection too: star battle, statue park 18:30:05 palisade is cute too 18:30:31 ill try it and mosaic, i never noticed mosaic before 18:30:36 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 18:31:07 https://krazydad.com/play/area51/ is also good, it's a mix of lots of puzzles 18:32:17 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:36 untangle... I used to play planarity *a lot*. 18:34:30 I just uploaded https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bp-csatornafedel-magykir.jpg , an old manhole cover whose caption, cast in metal, refers to "royal telephone network". I think that label would be invariant regardless the gender of the king/queen, but that's basically impossible to test because the two monarchs of Ostrich-Hungry were definitely kings, and we don't have a six hundred year old 18:34:36 telephone network 18:36:07 Oh, the untangle implementation misses the "mark intersections" feature 18:37:02 apparently the telephone network on Budapest started in 1881 18:39:23 though, given that I photographed that on the street in 2013, it's most likely to be recent, probably from between the two world wars 18:39:43 "POST OFFICE TELEGRAPHS" is what a lot of the manhole covers hereabouts say. 18:40:00 Not sure when they're from. 18:41:02 https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2015/01/i875/telegraph.jpg <- looking like that 18:41:24 I recognize that 18:41:31 something something "why manholes are circle?" 18:41:51 Yeah, I think all of these are rectangular though. 18:42:53 I guess the only time I saw rectangular manhole was in Odessa, on a very popular tourist site 18:43:59 It is a good feature of this current timeline that a lot of London's lavatorial history is related to the company established by Thomas Crapper. 18:46:35 still easy... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ut.png 18:46:38 fizzie: I see 18:48:41 here, only smaller manhole covers are circular, all the larger ones are rectangular, probably because the larger ones (not counting very old ones like this) are made of reinforced concrete with a metal frame, rather than all metal 18:48:48 (the thing with marking intersections is that when there are many points, I tend to stash the solved part in a corner and it's easy to introduce an intersection by accident that is really hard to see) 18:48:51 oh wait, no, that wasn't even a rectangle, lol 18:49:13 https://goo.gl/maps/1Nzrf39GX9kwo6iy7 18:50:39 and the largest manholes are covered by two rectangular covers, presumably to avoid a huge very heavy manhole cover, and circular would suck for that too 18:51:19 nakilon: nice 19:00:16 -!- KakkoiiChris has joined. 19:00:16 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 19:02:07 oerjan I'm here now, sorry. I was out with family for the moment. 19:05:35 riv did you try to solve the words thing further? 19:10:53 nakilon, I know what to do next (sort by word length, delete substrings) 19:10:57 what i didn't implement it 19:11:07 actually maybe it's not that simple 19:11:16 a shorter word might be better, if it's used many more times 19:11:29 KakkoiiChris: i've temporarily disabled the filter now 19:11:41 conside strings with an equal number of ) and ( in them 19:11:58 consider 19:12:16 for example "()" and ")()(" 19:12:31 does any language assign semantics to these? 19:13:28 oerjan Thank you, kindly~ I of course now realize why not many others bother with the syntax highlighting like I've done, but I was so close to finishing it that I didn't want to give up on it. I should have it done by the end of the day~ 19:14:38 -!- KakkoiiChris has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:15:47 Hmm, I wonder if there's MediaWiki extensions that allow for "manual" syntax highlighting using a syntax that's more compact and also doesn't involve hardcoding the colors necessarily. 19:16:15 There's definitely syntax highlighting extensions, but the ones I've come across are those where they support more... mainstream languages, and do it automatically. 19:18:06 -!- KakkoiiChris has joined. 19:21:13 fizzie Is there a way to create a CSS sheet for your page? If that's the case, then I could keep the classes from Notepad++'s HTML output, and it would be a lot smaller. 19:22:31 > reverse ")()(" 19:22:33 "()()" 19:22:56 > reverse "())(()" 19:22:57 ")(())(" 19:23:44 (just pointing out that it's not simply matched parens or reversed matched) 19:23:55 > reverse "( . )( . )" 19:23:55 I think probably not. There might be some security implications in allowing "untrusted" CSS that's shown to other users. 19:23:56 ") . () . (" 19:24:08 ooh 19:24:51 True,,, oh well. At least I can keep on editing. 19:26:43 there might be a way to do it with templates, maybe? 19:27:02 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86919&oldid=86898 * KakkoiiChris * (+5870) /* Relative Range Access */ Added syntax highlighting 19:27:09 I imagine I could probably also stick in some "generic" syntax highlighting classes ("keyword", "number", whatnot) with semi-reasonable defaults into a global stylesheet file somewhere, which users could then customize in their user stylesheets if they like. 19:27:57 [[Aboba]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86920&oldid=86880 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) 19:27:59 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86921&oldid=86919 * KakkoiiChris * (+934) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added syntax highlighting 19:28:34 oerjan: Maybe if you want to make the slowest-to-render page ever. (Not that it's a concern with our wiki's amount of traffic, just saying.) 19:28:52 [[Aboba]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86922&oldid=86920 * PixelatedStarfish * (-9) /* External links */ 19:29:06 "Render" there meaning the part MediaWiki does, not the part the client does. 19:29:20 KakkoiiChris: ok you're past the limit now so i'll turn the filter back on and you still be ok as long as you don't shrink the page back below it 19:29:26 lol 🅰️🅱️🅾️🅱️🅰️ 19:29:48 *you should still 19:31:15 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86923&oldid=86921 * KakkoiiChris * (+1487) /* Logical Narrowing (?x) */ Added syntax highlighting 19:32:00 dark color schemes suck if you ask me https://i.imgur.com/4RX4jY3.png 19:32:08 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86924&oldid=86923 * KakkoiiChris * (+1295) /* Unary Operators */ Added syntax highlighting 20:02:54 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86925&oldid=86924 * KakkoiiChris * (+19777) /* Binary Operators */ Added syntax highlighting 20:05:33 oerjan You mean not to remove any text, right? 20:05:52 Below what I had before, that is. 20:12:56 -!- delta23 has joined. 20:13:12 -!- vyv has joined. 20:18:19 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86926&oldid=86925 * KakkoiiChris * (+1013) /* Ternary Operator (x ? y : z) */ Added syntax highlighting 20:19:05 KakkoiiChris: yeah 20:22:05 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86927&oldid=86926 * KakkoiiChris * (+14336) /* Design Patterns */ Added syntax highlighting 20:26:03 " (just pointing out that it's not simply matched parens or reversed matched)" => but cyclically rotated matched parens, right? 20:27:58 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to KeziahMason. 20:42:18 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86928&oldid=86927 * KakkoiiChris * (-1761) /* Design Patterns */ Fixed formatting 20:42:51 ah yes 20:42:56 there will always be a cyclic shift 20:43:04 because you can align the zero point 20:52:00 yeah 21:05:15 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 21:06:13 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:16:10 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:46 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 21:24:55 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:25:58 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 21:27:26 -!- V has quit (Quit: We're here. We're queer. Connection reset by peer). 21:27:46 -!- V has joined. 21:35:54 riv: the thing about untangled is that it's more a matter of patience than anything else... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ut500.png 21:36:30 (it does produce funny patterns though, which probably differ a lot between players) 21:37:20 -!- lukalot_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:38:54 woah 21:38:59 i dont think ive ever done one that complex 21:40:25 What's the settings for that? 21:41:05 Judging from the file name, 500 points, but it doesn't seem that much. 21:41:18 it's 500 points 21:41:28 > sqrt 500 21:41:29 22.360679774997898 21:41:41 Huh. I guess it's just hard to estimate. 21:44:35 Well, I didn't count them. But 500 is what I told it to use. 21:47:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 21:51:35 I think there was a standalone version of that game too. "gplanar"? No, "gplanarity". 21:52:29 yep, gplanarity 21:52:42 played that endlessly maybe a decade ago 21:53:23 it had some cute twists, like some levels with non-planar graphs 21:54:21 also some useful editing features, most notably a zoom feature which I mostly used to concentrate the initial points in the lower-left corner so I had room to operate 21:54:45 but alos a block move feature that was occasionally handy for rearranging the solved part. 21:56:15 I wonder if it would be a plausible UI tweak if there was a mode that hides edges you haven't touched any endpoint of, so which maybe could allow you to do the solution in the middle of the circle. 21:57:17 that might work 21:58:17 I wonder whether gplanarity had something like that (untouched lines in gray?) 22:00:22 Hmm, I cant find any sort of settings dialog. As far as buttons go, it seems to have just a "mark intersections" and a general show/hide lines which completely hides all lines. 22:00:34 But dehighlighting untouched lines rings some sort of a bell. 22:02:24 ah it highlights lines when you click a point... I guess that's what I'm confusing it with 22:02:29 -!- KakkoiiChris has quit (Quit: Client closed). 22:05:01 I didn't remember that gplanarity gives a score on time too. 22:05:12 Maybe it's changed, or maybe I just forgot. 22:27:51 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:28:05 -!- Cale has joined. 22:28:23 -!- Cale has quit (Client Quit). 22:28:37 -!- Cale has joined. 23:06:57 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: tech_exorcist). 23:21:59 [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86929&oldid=86736 * Spargle * (+184) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */ 23:23:02 fizzie: there's also the original flash game, maybe that had a feature like this 23:23:28 I don't recall 23:31:13 [[The Goblins Operation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86930 * PixelatedStarfish * (+541) Created page with "The ''Goblins Operation'' is an modified goto operation that enables subroutine like behaviors. The operation was created for [[Blood32]] and it is named after the hemoglobin..." 23:31:57 [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86931&oldid=86930 * PixelatedStarfish * (+30) 23:33:59 [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86932&oldid=86931 * PixelatedStarfish * (+601) 23:34:22 [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86933&oldid=86932 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Goblins Operation Example in Blood32 */ 23:37:31 [[Goblins Operation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86934 * PixelatedStarfish * (+35) Redirected page to [[The Goblins Operation]] 23:39:03 [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86935&oldid=86933 * PixelatedStarfish * (+58) /* Goblins Operation Example in Blood32 */ 23:39:48 [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86936&oldid=86935 * PixelatedStarfish * (+22) /* Goblins Operation Example in Blood32 */ 23:41:37 [[Goblins]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86937 * PixelatedStarfish * (+35) Redirected page to [[The Goblins Operation]] 23:43:44 [[Esoteric algorithm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86938&oldid=75103 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+0) /* Potential Use */ monogamous monotonous 23:43:54 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86939&oldid=86226 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* The Goblins Operation */ 23:44:07 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86940&oldid=86939 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* The Goblins Operation */ 23:44:55 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86941&oldid=86940 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Pointer operations */ 23:46:36 [[The Goblins Operation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86942&oldid=86936 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+1) /* Goblins Operation Example in [[Blood32]] */ indicted indicated 23:57:42 [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86943&oldid=86514 * CosmicMan08 * (+3631) added bf69 commands 23:58:19 [[Bf69]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86944 * CosmicMan08 * (+43) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] 23:58:38 [[Brainfuck+++++++++++++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86945 * CosmicMan08 * (+43) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] 23:59:09 [[Brainfuck+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86946 * CosmicMan08 * (+43) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] 2021-08-05: 00:00:40 uh... 00:01:13 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86947&oldid=86928 * KakkoiiChris * (-264) /* String Output */ Fixed formatting 00:02:38 [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86948&oldid=86943 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+28) is self-modifying, add category 00:03:11 Uh. 00:04:27 [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86949&oldid=86948 * CosmicMan08 * (+52) 00:49:15 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:50:27 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 01:14:03 -!- KeziahMason has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 01:14:31 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86950&oldid=86947 * KakkoiiChris * (+12401) /* Statements */ Added syntax highlighting 01:35:01 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86951&oldid=86950 * KakkoiiChris * (+10) /* Values */ Fixed links 01:38:11 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86952&oldid=86951 * KakkoiiChris * (+59) /* Numbers */ Added Infinity and NaN 02:05:41 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:07:19 -!- sprock has joined. 02:28:47 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:55:51 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86953&oldid=86952 * KakkoiiChris * (+1547) /* System Arg (\<) */ Elaborated and added syntax highlighting 02:56:44 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86954&oldid=86953 * KakkoiiChris * (+679) /* System Call (\>) */ Added syntax highlighting 02:57:41 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86955&oldid=86954 * KakkoiiChris * (-7) /* Goto (_<) */ Fixed order 03:02:52 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86956&oldid=86955 * KakkoiiChris * (+361) /* Numbers */ Added dynamic literals 03:09:44 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86957&oldid=86956 * KakkoiiChris * (+66) /* Numbers */ Added Pi and E 03:16:41 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86958&oldid=86957 * KakkoiiChris * (-1) /* Numbers */ Changed wording 03:20:20 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86959&oldid=86958 * KakkoiiChris * (+28) /* V5 */ Changed wording 03:33:33 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86960&oldid=86959 * KakkoiiChris * (+2295) Added System Function section 03:38:17 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86961&oldid=86960 * KakkoiiChris * (+18) /* General Functions */ Added table 03:40:36 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86962&oldid=86961 * KakkoiiChris * (+27) /* System Call (\>) */ Added System Function section link 03:41:02 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86963&oldid=86962 * KakkoiiChris * (+27) /* System Arg (\<) */ Added System Function section link 04:00:38 -!- sprock has joined. 04:48:38 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86964&oldid=86963 * KakkoiiChris * (-69) /* Math Functions */ Finished table 04:53:09 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86965&oldid=86964 * KakkoiiChris * (+233) /* System Functions */ Elaborated on system functions 04:58:27 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * KakkoiiChris * uploaded "[[File:KakkoiiChris.png]]" 05:15:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:17:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:35:16 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 05:36:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:38:38 [[User:KakkoiiChris]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86967 * KakkoiiChris * (+937) Started page 05:40:42 [[User:Thenewcomposer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86968 * KakkoiiChris * (+26) Redirect to KakkoiiChris 05:41:06 [[Stacky]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86969 * Braden * (+2110) Apologies for rough formatting and the not-great article. Feel free to flesh it out as needed. 05:41:39 [[User:Thenewcomposer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86970&oldid=86968 * KakkoiiChris * (+5) Fixed link 05:44:27 [[Talk:Stacky]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86971 * Braden * (+434) Created page with "I was nervous to create this page. I'm writing a reference implementation in my free time. It'll be a JIT and it'll include a compiler to convert stacky source code to the obn..." 05:46:31 [[Talk:Stacky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86972&oldid=86971 * Braden * (+177) /* Stackyzi */ new section 05:47:12 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86973&oldid=86965 * KakkoiiChris * (+53) /* Arrays */ Reworded sentences 05:47:53 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86974&oldid=86973 * KakkoiiChris * (+6) /* Strings */ 05:49:32 [[Stacky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86975&oldid=86969 * Braden * (+1) fixed error in truth machine example (a correct implementation would crash upon trying to pop an empty stack) 05:52:59 [[Stacky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86976&oldid=86975 * Braden * (+1) third time's the charm 06:02:22 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:06:26 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86977&oldid=86974 * KakkoiiChris * (+552) /* Single Access */ Added negative indices 06:21:30 -!- KakkoiiChris has joined. 06:25:03 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:25:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:25:48 [[Todo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86978 * TheJonyMyster * (+1839) Created page with "'''Todo''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] where functions are called from a queue. Functions are defined and subsequently added to the queue, and can be called when o..." 06:26:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:28:27 -!- KakkoiiChris has quit (Quit: Client closed). 07:42:08 maybe this was the flash game https://www.kongregate.com/games/qrious/untangle but my browser does not play this flash anymore 08:01:20 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:06:23 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:17 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:44:48 -!- SGautam has joined. 08:50:44 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:04:58 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:58:44 in Russian we call the raw photo slide "a negative" but when we mean the opposite color we say "inverted" color, not "negated" 09:58:48 is it the same in your languages? 10:00:05 while both words are foreign we have an own word "обратный" but we don't use it here at all AFAIK 10:01:07 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 10:02:27 can't remember where I saw the .negate method instead of .invert that is more intuitive for me 10:02:32 API method 10:21:41 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:28:42 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 10:30:48 what kind of esolangs fame is Chris Pressey himself starring your eso project 10:31:49 he's starring every esolang 10:32:23 probably 10:33:17 oh hi kspalaiologos, I haven't seen you in a while 10:33:27 hello! 10:33:51 nice to meet you again :) 10:34:16 I've gone a long way since I tried to learn J from you 10:34:36 you found our new home. we can't hide from you. 10:35:17 haha, i guess I'll be haunting you from now ;) 10:44:40 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 11:10:00 [[Seed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86979&oldid=84881 * Palaiologos * (-2) update the URL 11:54:25 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:05:52 I keep playing with telegram channels dump 12:06:09 is there are name for such diagram? https://i.imgur.com/nm93tjy.png 12:07:36 when I google "heatmap" none of them has a col width of 1 pixel 12:09:08 also no log axis 12:20:51 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86980&oldid=86894 * TheJonyMyster * (+6) 12:21:38 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86981&oldid=86978 * TheJonyMyster * (+23) authorship 12:31:30 I think it's a relative of the strip chart and the ridgeline plot, but not exactly either of those. 12:35:42 And also of the rug plot, which is a thing where you add a tick exactly like that near an axis to illustrate the marginal distribution in that direction. 12:38:16 Oh, there is a name for it: barcode chart. 12:39:36 At least according to https://www.darkhorseanalytics.com/blog/visualizing-distributions-3 -- it's just that except more than one of them. 12:53:54 yeah, "barcode" looks like that 12:54:13 but my one also has a lightness value 12:54:59 without logarithmic lightness it was looking like this https://i.imgur.com/8ZGsRYW.png 12:59:17 That's part of it, as described there. "-- usually with some transparency or a colour scale to deal with multiple points of the same value." 12:59:38 (I think that generalizes to "or values so close they can't be rendered as distinct lines.") 13:14:53 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: cable management etc.). 13:15:28 oh, I often skip the text ( 13:21:42 [[Siterip]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86982&oldid=70258 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-31) Remove empty ref list 13:32:19 -!- riv has joined. 13:35:34 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:37:07 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:53:44 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:10:11 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 14:47:23 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 14:59:19 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:02:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:10:34 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:59 -!- hendursaga has joined. 15:27:15 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 16:07:21 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 16:46:23 -!- imode has joined. 17:02:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:28:25 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:46 [[Todo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86983&oldid=86981 * TheJonyMyster * (+21) needed a literal, sorry I wont post unfinished langs ever again. but tbf it is called todo 17:59:10 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86984&oldid=86983 * TheJonyMyster * (-2) /* Commands */ 17:59:30 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86985&oldid=86984 * TheJonyMyster * (+3) /* Commands */ 18:01:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:04:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:07:57 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 18:09:52 [[Functionality]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86986 * Dominicentek * (+8238) Created page with "Functionality is an esoteric programming language written by [[User:Dominicentek]] with the goal being having the most functionality as possible. == Instructions == {| class="..." 18:10:23 [[Functionality]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86987&oldid=86986 * Dominicentek * (+18) Fixed missing table styling 18:11:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:19:13 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:20:53 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:21:10 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:23:16 [[Functionality]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86988&oldid=86987 * Dominicentek * (+177) 18:25:20 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86989&oldid=86904 * Dominicentek * (+20) /* F */ 18:26:11 [[Functionality]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86990&oldid=86988 * Dominicentek * (+18) Another fix for wiki table styling 18:27:49 [[Functionality]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86991&oldid=86990 * Dominicentek * (+39) Yet another 2 fixes 18:31:20 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:31:37 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:33:17 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:33:34 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:33:43 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:23 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:41 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:39:23 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:39:40 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:41:20 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:41:37 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:43:36 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:54 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:45:34 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:45:51 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:46:02 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:46:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:49:32 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:49:49 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:51:29 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:51:46 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:53:26 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:53:43 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 18:55:23 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:02:06 [[Portsy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86992 * RocketRace * (+6956) Part 0 19:02:59 [[Portsy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86993&oldid=86992 * RocketRace * (-45) Forgot to add 19:13:25 `smlist 524 19:13:28 smlist 524: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale 19:14:04 `? smlist 19:14:07 Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega. 19:27:43 -!- SGautam has joined. 20:11:05 -!- delta23 has joined. 20:15:16 -!- VilgotanL has joined. 20:16:36 -!- mich181189 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:45:34 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 20:46:26 -!- VilgotanL has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:53:46 -!- mich181189 has joined. 20:59:38 -!- dutch has joined. 21:34:39 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86994&oldid=86989 * TheJonyMyster * (+11) added todo 22:07:55 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 22:15:49 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:21:45 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:32:57 -!- Thelie has joined. 22:42:15 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: tech_exorcist). 22:46:55 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:32:00 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:34:42 -!- delta23 has joined. 23:43:49 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86995&oldid=86985 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+48) Cats 23:46:54 [[Cpy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86996&oldid=86918 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-17) Fix name, rm redundant pipe 2021-08-06: 00:02:30 One idea I have is adding a format code into printf and scanf to indicate that this format string is used only to indicate the type and that the actual format string to use will be the next one (which might not use all of the data arguments, but it can know the type of arguments that are skipped, as well as other uses) 00:02:51 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86997&oldid=86995 * TheJonyMyster * (+12) added word to imply sequence 01:02:51 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86998&oldid=86977 * KakkoiiChris * (-90) /* Less (x < y) */ Fixed formatting 01:04:42 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86999&oldid=86998 * KakkoiiChris * (-12) /* Assign (x = y) */ Fixed formatting 01:05:39 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87000&oldid=86999 * KakkoiiChris * (-138) /* String Input */ Fixed colors 01:06:33 Is there TeX implemented in PostScript, so that it is possible for PostScript codes to interfere with TeX codes (rather than only executing PostScript codes after TeX is finished)? 02:20:29 zzo38: well, you could probably *compile* TeX into postscript with a custom translator 02:24:03 Yes, but: [1] I don't know of any such translator. [2] It won't be as good as doing it properly. [3] It will not interact with PostScript codes very well unless it is modified to do so. 02:28:18 sure, you'd have to write a translator 02:28:22 what do you mean properly? 02:28:31 the proper way to run TeX is to use its original code 02:28:45 so if you want to implement it in postscript, you compile the original code rather than reimplement it 02:29:36 you could do it like pdflatex in that you don't use the part that writes the DVI to a file, and just run graphics primitives immediately 02:29:43 but the part that does the layout is worth to keep 02:29:50 Yes, of course, if you do it the other way then it won't be TeX, but it will be similar. But, if PostScript codes are to interfere with TeX codes then it won't be TeX, it will be almost-TeX, I suppose. 02:30:33 In order to implement text formatting properly, probably another node type might be helpful, so that it can work properly if split across lines and pages, too. 02:34:03 Of course you would run the graphics primitives directly, but my idea is to do that during the \shipout operation (which would render a box and then the PostScript showpage operator) 02:36:05 Since it is not quite TeX, this also means \immediate could be usable with boxes too, in case you do want to render it immediately (possibly due to wanting to implement the page layout in PostScript) 02:42:33 Also, PostScript has its own memory management, too. 03:32:18 An alternative possibility would be implementing the typesetting algorithms of TeX in PostScript; it will not be compatible, although for some purposes it can be used. The token input of TeX can then also be implemented, too. 04:08:05 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:30:02 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87001&oldid=86997 * TheJonyMyster * (+18) year category 04:46:30 -!- ^[ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:48:15 -!- ^[ has joined. 04:58:06 [[Todo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87002&oldid=87001 * TheJonyMyster * (+301) truth machine 05:00:09 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87003&oldid=87002 * TheJonyMyster * (+112) /* Truth machine */ 05:08:52 [[Todo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87004&oldid=87003 * TheJonyMyster * (+251) fib + code credit 05:34:57 Today, a few times I turned on TI-92 calculator it reset the contrast (although no files or settings were lost, other than the contrast setting). It doesn't reset the contrast every time 06:01:18 -!- immibis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:25:26 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:25:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:26:40 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:29:00 -!- dutch has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:37:17 -!- dutch has joined. 06:37:38 -!- twoC has joined. 06:46:44 -!- twoC has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:27:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:51:49 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:05:55 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:07:58 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:08:45 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:58:02 lol I've CTCP sent a nickname to an offline IRC user named "version" 08:58:39 I just can't remember the syntax; I suppose if you are online under the "version" nickname you'll get a lot of these 08:59:13 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87005&oldid=86661 * Dtuser1337 * (+190) /* loadallfile() */ 08:59:19 and it probably won't even be classified as "mocking the network services" 09:00:06 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87006&oldid=87005 * Dtuser1337 * (-1) 09:07:02 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87007&oldid=87006 * Dtuser1337 * (+144) /* Function Commands */ 09:09:54 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 09:26:20 [[User talk:RocketRace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87008&oldid=71231 * Dtuser1337 * (+346) /* I've got a request for you */ new section 09:36:07 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87009&oldid=87007 * Dtuser1337 * (+13) /* File I/O Commands */ 09:37:24 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87010&oldid=87009 * Dtuser1337 * (+36) /* File I/O Commands */ 09:42:26 https://github.com/kspalaiologos/malbolge-lisp 09:43:07 I wonder why it's in 7z 10:26:11 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 10:51:24 -!- tech_exorcist_ has joined. 10:52:44 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:54:52 -!- tech_exorcist_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:55:17 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 12:40:13 [[Talk:Haltingfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87011 * Silver * (+565) actually, not sure this is right 12:55:25 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 12:55:43 -!- hendursaga has joined. 14:04:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:20:20 -!- tromp has joined. 15:47:18 -!- SGautam has joined. 15:58:54 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: bbl). 16:25:46 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 16:38:49 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:39:17 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 16:42:49 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:43:10 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 16:48:49 -!- imode has joined. 17:09:11 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87012&oldid=86768 * Tomhe * (+645) fj.py, wflip 1-op 17:12:26 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87013&oldid=87012 * Tomhe * (+1) /* How To Run? */ 17:13:02 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87014&oldid=87013 * Tomhe * (-21) /* How To Run? */ 17:32:34 The syntax to send the CTCP is the same as other messages, it is PRIVMSG and then the target nick name and then the colon and data, but the data uses the CTRL+A before and after 17:36:26 [[Epicbebra]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87015 * Kemuri * (+11) Created page with "Coming soon" 18:21:53 [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87016&oldid=86929 * Spargle * (+116) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */ 18:22:17 [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87017&oldid=87016 * Spargle * (+1) /* note: when printing a string like this: **!B !L !A !H**, you must put a space in between each character. */ 18:22:55 -!- immibis has joined. 18:41:12 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:49:35 -!- SGautam has joined. 18:54:16 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:36 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 18:55:32 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Client Quit). 18:55:51 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 19:49:26 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: bbl (hopefully; if not, see you in 3 weeks)). 19:56:39 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 20:01:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:43:38 sometimes those freefall robots are a little too creative for their own good 20:52:03 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87018&oldid=86153 * PixelatedStarfish * (-5) /* Esolangs */ 20:57:38 the danger of indefinite pronouns 20:58:18 why isn't it "indefinitive"... 20:59:06 confused by pronouns... indefinitely 21:00:05 (I'm *actually* confused, too... "it" is a definite pronoun) 21:14:58 * oerjan wonders if int-e is responding to him but can see no pronoun ambiguity in what he wrote 21:16:24 . o O ( the danger of indefinite context ) 21:18:20 oerjan: the FF comic has a subject confusion 21:18:33 or object confusion, whatever 21:49:43 oh duh 21:50:03 . o O ( forget my own head next ) 21:50:48 * oerjan was archive binging girl genius a bit to see if that lady in today's last panel was in the museum they'd visited, but no. 21:52:02 i suppose it would be easier with colors 21:53:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:54:07 wait is it a lady 21:55:22 Oh, didn't read that because I got distracted by the lack of colors 21:55:40 (causing me to check back on last Friday's comic which is still uncolored) 21:56:43 ah 21:57:12 well it doesn't resemble lord moonbark, so probably a lady, but have we seen her before? 21:58:02 doesn't she resemble Agatha... 21:59:01 Colors (like hair color) would help :P And we are in a time traveling universe. 22:00:40 -!- dermato has joined. 22:01:04 she does. but i don't think agatha was in such a position before they got her mother removed. 22:01:39 Then, how about Lucrecia herself 22:02:10 i guess we'll see. 22:02:22 That's my usual attitude to GG these days. 22:03:01 i have a hunch the mirrors aren't how the time travel is done, though. (remember van rijn'r prisoner who disappeared with a poof?) 22:03:11 I would have to archive binge regularly to keep track of the myriad of plot lines. 22:03:26 (and was presumably lucrezia) 22:04:58 We've seen them in action *once* and a couple of flashbacks... but yeah, it was consistent with pure teleportation. 22:05:13 (As far as I recall) 22:06:18 well there are also the window apparitions agatha and dupree saw, but that was still "mirror" on only one end 22:07:20 But those *were* traveling in time? 22:07:35 yes 22:07:57 at least the ones with future agatha etc. on the other side 22:08:31 I guess technically they wouldn't have to be... they could be time traveling by other means and then use a mirror-like device to scan around :P 22:08:48 But... that seems overly complicated even by GG standards. 22:14:16 back to "we'll see", then. 22:26:23 maybe smoke is involved too, not just mirrors 22:31:12 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:36:20 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:42:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:35:09 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:37:50 -!- delta23 has joined. 23:42:34 [[BSS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87019&oldid=80628 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15) Unpipe, cat 23:53:06 [[LCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87020&oldid=86689 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) Cats 23:53:37 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87021&oldid=86994 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* L */ LCode 2021-08-07: 03:20:10 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87022&oldid=73615 * Razetime * (+63) 03:21:58 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87023&oldid=87022 * Razetime * (+11) 03:23:39 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87024&oldid=87023 * Razetime * (-6) 03:25:10 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87025&oldid=87024 * Razetime * (-10) 03:25:39 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87026&oldid=87025 * Razetime * (+9) 03:26:12 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87027&oldid=87026 * Razetime * (+10) 03:26:45 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87028&oldid=87027 * Razetime * (+2) 03:27:10 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87029&oldid=87028 * Razetime * (+0) 03:28:07 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87030&oldid=87029 * Razetime * (+7) 03:28:30 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87031&oldid=87000 * Razetime * (-45) 04:28:26 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87032&oldid=87031 * KakkoiiChris * (-4) /* Characters */ Fixed typo 04:32:48 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87033&oldid=87032 * KakkoiiChris * (+18) /* REPL */ Fixed formatting 06:02:37 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87034&oldid=87010 * Ais523 * (+400) this is TC 06:05:16 [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87035&oldid=86320 * Xorol * (+829) 06:05:36 [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87036&oldid=87035 * Xorol * (+3) 06:12:29 [[Template:Infobox proglang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87037&oldid=87030 * Ais523 * (-2) remove a stray paragraph break it's putting extra whitespace at the start of articles that use infoboxes, making them look badly styled 06:25:45 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:25:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:26:59 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:52:54 -!- SGautam has joined. 07:09:31 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:53:15 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:03:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:03:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:05:23 -!- scjosh8 has joined. 08:06:22 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:06:25 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:07:12 -!- scjosh has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:07:13 -!- scjosh8 has changed nick to scjosh. 08:08:27 -!- dermato has joined. 08:08:42 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:18:21 -!- riv has joined. 09:20:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:35:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:36:00 [[MCBlocks]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87038&oldid=86688 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* See also */ Cat 13:52:03 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:52:28 -!- hendursaga has joined. 14:07:25 [[SemicolonHash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87039&oldid=86600 * Xorol * (+208) Added a python implementation 14:59:48 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PandaQwanda * New user account 16:16:21 -!- mcfrdy has quit (Quit: quit). 16:16:48 -!- mcfrdy has joined. 16:26:22 -!- imode has joined. 16:30:49 There is a multicodec number for murmur3-128, but the 128-bit version 3 MurmurHash depends on the computer type, and the multicodec specification does not (as far as I know) specify the computer type. This would mean that code 0x22 is worthless for use in files, URIs, etc; it still might be meaningful to pass as the argument to identify the hash type in a library to compute the hashes, for in memory use only. 16:48:24 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:50:36 -!- rodgort has joined. 17:02:42 -!- mcfrdy has quit (Quit: quit). 17:03:04 -!- mcfrdy has joined. 17:26:35 Did you know that "deer" rhymes with "mirror"? I didn't. 18:37:09 do cares have stirring wills? 18:47:09 one of my favourite subs: https://www.reddit.com/r/holdmydeer/ 18:54:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:05:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:52:30 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:13:19 so 20:13:31 conlang critic is doing a pokerap in toki pona 20:20:23 nice 20:33:45 oh no 20:53:48 riv: pokerap? 20:53:59 I saw there was a video review some time ago for Toki Pona 22:24:41 `smlist 525 22:24:44 smlist 525: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale 22:30:07 [[PL2 vCPU]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87040 * TeamLightning * (+414) Created page with "==Overview== The PL2 vCPU is a currently in-progress esoteric C++ virtual CPU made by [[User:TeamLightning|TeamLightning]] as a lower-level successor to [[PainLang]]. As of th..." 22:33:37 [[User:TeamLightning]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87041&oldid=83611 * TeamLightning * (+71) 22:35:15 [[User:TeamLightning]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87042&oldid=87041 * TeamLightning * (+1) 22:37:30 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:37:53 -!- imode has joined. 22:38:37 [[PainLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87043&oldid=83694 * TeamLightning * (+11) Updated /*Computational class*/ to reflect changeable tape length 22:46:37 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87044&oldid=87040 * TeamLightning * (+82) Added categories 22:47:02 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87045&oldid=87044 * TeamLightning * (-1) one too many colons 22:51:08 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87046&oldid=87045 * TeamLightning * (-4) /* Implementations */ update to change "I know of" to "known" 22:58:45 -!- teaml has joined. 23:10:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:25:31 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87047&oldid=87046 * Ais523 * (-14) per policy, make sure that the User: prefix on links to userspace is visible 2021-08-08: 01:28:52 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 01:31:54 -!- teaml has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:32:38 -!- dutch has joined. 02:14:37 -!- spruit11_ has joined. 02:15:59 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:23:07 -!- teaml has joined. 03:09:04 -!- dbohdan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:09:19 -!- dbohdan has joined. 03:11:01 [[Heck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87048 * PixelatedStarfish * (+192) Created page with "'''Heck''' is a programing language designed such that source code is expressible as a hexadecimal number. It was created by [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] in 2021. The interprete..." 03:14:37 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87049&oldid=87048 * PixelatedStarfish * (+127) 03:14:52 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87050&oldid=87049 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) 03:15:51 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87051&oldid=87050 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) 03:20:31 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:28:12 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87052&oldid=87051 * PixelatedStarfish * (+840) 03:28:44 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87053&oldid=87052 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Operations in Heck */ 03:29:19 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87054&oldid=87053 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) 03:35:34 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87055&oldid=87054 * PixelatedStarfish * (+263) 03:36:41 * nakilon thinks about giving up with the idea to make a RASEL IDE with GUI libraries 03:37:08 I mean the GUI libraries that use the common OS primitives 03:37:22 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87056&oldid=87055 * PixelatedStarfish * (+68) /* Grammar */ 03:37:44 instead I'll probably rather make it in more stupid way -- using ruby2d, working with primitives, like Rectangle, key press events and stuff 03:38:32 no text inputs and dialogs though 03:39:43 so you'll run the program immediately specifying a single file you edit 03:40:05 something like .rasela extension meaning "annotated rasel" 03:43:37 and bin/rasel-convert to convert between them 03:45:28 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87057&oldid=87056 * PixelatedStarfish * (+63) 03:48:19 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87058&oldid=87057 * PixelatedStarfish * (+24) /* Hello World */ 03:51:54 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87059&oldid=87058 * PixelatedStarfish * (+156) 03:52:00 oooooor 03:52:29 I could make it in JS/CSS http://localhost 03:52:44 I suck in CSS though 03:52:59 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87060&oldid=87059 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) 03:58:18 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87061&oldid=87018 * PixelatedStarfish * (+98) /* Esolangs */ 03:59:08 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87062&oldid=87061 * PixelatedStarfish * (+11) /* Esolangs */ 04:03:14 20:32:35 The syntax to send the CTCP is the same as other messages 04:03:46 maybe, but in the IRC client I'm not writing raw messages, I'm using the shortcuts provided 04:04:07 such as /nickserv info -- it's not /nickserv info 04:04:39 and so /ctcp version is intuitive but invalid 04:06:59 *wrong 04:12:16 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87063&oldid=87004 * TheJonyMyster * (+13) shh 04:12:34 well, /nickserv is not an irc command. 04:12:40 [[Todo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87064&oldid=87063 * TheJonyMyster * (-2) shhh 04:14:41 neither is ctcp 04:17:39 NICKSERV (which can be abbreviated as NS) is a common extension, even though it is not a standard IRC command 04:27:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Quittin'.). 04:27:26 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:27:33 -!- shachaf has joined. 04:27:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:28:20 -!- shikhin has changed hostmask to ~shikhin@offtopia/offtopian. 04:51:36 but /nickserv is just an abbreviation for /msg nickserv and does follow the format /command message 05:03:27 you could just as well make /info as an alias for /msg nickserv info 05:05:24 /ctcp is just an abbreviation too 06:11:54 -!- teaml has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:25:35 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:27:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:27:51 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:45:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1FXQMmXYoA 08:08:08 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:10:43 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:01:02 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:27:54 -!- SGautam has joined. 09:44:18 -!- immibis_ has joined. 09:46:28 -!- integral has quit (Ping 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joined. 10:05:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:06:23 -!- lambdabot has joined. 10:17:37 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:19:55 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 10:36:24 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 11:52:06 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:35:50 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 12:36:05 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:05:49 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87065&oldid=87060 * PixelatedStarfish * (+156) 13:10:32 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87066&oldid=87065 * PixelatedStarfish * (+141) 13:11:47 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87067&oldid=87066 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Hello World */ 13:12:05 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87068&oldid=87067 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Hello World */ 13:17:41 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87069&oldid=87068 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) 13:27:17 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:32:10 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87070&oldid=87069 * PixelatedStarfish * (+22) 13:35:03 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87071&oldid=87070 * PixelatedStarfish * (+119) 13:35:20 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87072&oldid=87071 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) 13:36:51 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87073&oldid=87072 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) 13:37:59 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87074&oldid=87073 * PixelatedStarfish * (+25) /* Syntax and Grammar in EBNF */ 14:06:47 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:15:44 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 14:18:08 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 14:41:59 -!- spruit11_ has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 14:42:25 -!- spruit11 has joined. 14:52:46 -!- teaml has joined. 14:53:42 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to philosomnaugh. 15:05:20 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87075&oldid=87033 * KakkoiiChris * (+124) /* Numbers */ Added the random and size dynamic literals 15:09:20 myname: freenode has NICKSERV as a command alias which sends privmsg to NickServ. this has the advantage that if you typo NickServ's name, you won't send your nickserv password to someone phishing for them 15:09:41 this is not a problem if you're using a client-side alias instead of course 15:20:08 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87076&oldid=87062 * PixelatedStarfish * (-42) /* Esolangs */ 15:23:25 -!- philosomnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:23:56 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 15:24:17 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87077&oldid=87074 * PixelatedStarfish * (+191) /* Program Examples */ 15:25:14 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87078&oldid=87077 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Truth Machine */ 16:33:39 -!- vyv has joined. 16:56:32 [[User:DoggyDogWhirl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87079&oldid=65176 * DoggyDogWhirl * (+1) misspelled hadn't 17:07:47 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Daggy1234 * New user account 17:08:30 -!- daggy1234 has joined. 17:08:30 hello 17:08:46 -!- daggy1234 has quit (Client Quit). 17:20:44 -!- daggy1234[m] has joined. 17:20:45 hi 17:25:11 -!- daggy1234 has joined. 17:26:15 -!- daggy1234 has quit (Client Quit). 17:38:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:52:34 -!- Trieste_ has joined. 17:52:52 -!- Trieste has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:55:56 -!- imode has joined. 17:56:09 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 18:19:01 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 18:19:26 -!- hendursaga has joined. 18:29:39 -!- tiggilyboo has joined. 18:30:48 -!- tiggilyboo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:06 -!- delta23 has joined. 18:48:42 -!- Argorok has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:51:02 -!- Argorok has joined. 19:17:03 -!- Melvar has joined. 19:18:53 [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87080&oldid=86748 * Dominicentek * (+32) 19:44:23 [[Functionality]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87081&oldid=86991 * Dominicentek * (+2) Fixed typo 19:47:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:53:11 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:30:28 -!- SGautam has joined. 21:17:39 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 21:20:42 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:26:56 Oh the ꙮ got a mention in xkcd this week. 21:27:46 `' ꙮ 21:27:49 1125) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 21:40:15 hm somehow i've missed 2 xkcds 21:41:54 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 21:42:06 int-e: yes, I mentioned that 21:42:33 int-e: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-08.html#lBh 21:47:57 Truly my greatest work. 21:59:26 [[PainLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87082&oldid=87043 * TeamLightning * (-14) /* Overview */ changed link text to include User: on userspace link 22:09:58 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87083&oldid=87047 * TeamLightning * (+25) changed implementations to state that the only known implementation also covers the PL2 assembler 22:11:30 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 22:12:03 -!- hendursaga has joined. 22:25:22 [[PL2 vCPU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87084&oldid=87083 * TeamLightning * (+719) Added (machine code) Hello World example, changed Overview to state that PL2 is extensible 22:26:51 ill go ahead and apologize in advance for the painful oneliner above edit added, im working on the assembler and will replace that example once the PL2 assembly works 22:50:02 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:53:53 -!- SGautam has joined. 23:04:11 int-e: oh? 23:04:36 oh, alt text to #2497 23:04:40 fine 23:04:46 i liked multiocular o before it was cool 23:05:10 10:45:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1FXQMmXYoA - awesome 23:41:34 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 23:44:20 -!- dutch has joined. 2021-08-09: 00:00:02 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:00:24 -!- hendursaga has joined. 00:22:04 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87085&oldid=87075 * KakkoiiChris * (+389) /* Binary Operators */ Added mod operator section 00:24:46 https://i.redd.it/46fs3yad25g71.jpg 00:25:06 I think I disliked multiocular o before it was cool 00:37:34 wow 00:37:39 that's even cooler than liking it before it was cool 00:40:26 but I think it's not a specific hate for multiocular o, it's just a general hate for when people substitute the incorrect letter just because it's cool, including using metal umlauts or fake cyrillic 00:40:38 s/ fake / faux / 00:44:52 How about when people just drop diacritical marks assuming they can't be that important? 00:45:51 fizzie: I don't mind that too much except in a few cases where there is an ambiguity 00:46:00 Hungarian is great for this by the way 00:46:47 like because of the vowel harmony, you can sometimes recover the distinction between o and ö from a suffix 00:47:37 and you can usually guess between a and á and between e and é, or the distinction doesn't matter, though there are a few specific cases where they do matter and cause an ambiguity and you should keep the accent if the context is confusing 00:48:06 I participate in quite some online chat in Hungarian where a lot of users (including me) drop the accents 00:48:07 I remember trying to find the most semantically disastrous pairing of words in Finnish distinguished only by a/ä or o/ö differences, but I don't think I came up with any particularly great examples. There's a lot of word pairs with entirely different meanings, but mostly they're just things where substituting the other word in any plausible sense just makes it sound like nonsense. 00:48:50 Although välittää 'to care' and valittaa 'to complain' maybe has some potential. 00:49:02 Maybe in a relationship setting. 00:49:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: cꙮl). 00:49:29 fizzie: an example I find quite humorous is a certain ad that only shows a domain name "boresmez.hu", which could stand for either "bor és méz" or "bőr és mez". but you can't get this sort of thing if there's more context. 00:49:30 https://gizmodo.com/a-cellphones-missing-dot-kills-two-people-puts-three-m-382026 00:50:14 the majority of what actually cause problems in practice are ambiguities in noun suffixes, though there are also a few where the ambiguity is in the word root 00:52:05 keegan: Oh, that reminds me of the one that actually does regularly come up in IRC conversations, namely näin ("I saw") vs. nain (colloquialism for "I fucked"), especially when you're trying to say you saw someone you knew somewhere. 00:59:56 ha 00:59:59 that could be awkward, yes 01:00:02 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:00:08 fizzie: yeah, but there are so many words that are slang for sex that they always cause ambiguities. one I particularly hate is "make out" which can mean to percieve 01:00:45 usually it's transitive when it means perceive and intransitive when it's about sex, but not always 01:09:15 heh 01:09:50 making out doesn't strictly mean sex, at least in american english 01:10:55 sure 01:11:06 but it is conceptually adjacent 01:11:34 I think there were a few other English ambiguities similar to this, but I can't recall them right now 03:00:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: I seem to have stopped.). 03:01:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 03:41:54 -!- teaml has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:58:49 -!- dutch has quit (*.net *.split). 04:58:49 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (*.net 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works. 05:15:22 However, I then discoverd something *very annoying*. 05:16:59 If a stream socket is used, and one side sends a chunk with some fds, then if the other side receives this section of the message as two chunks, the fds will be attached to the *first* of them. 05:18:13 This is annoying because one might want to send a logical message as one chunk with fds, but have the message include a header that specifies how many fds should be expected (since the receiver must allocate memory to receive them in). 05:19:20 So this is not possible, since the receiver cannot receive the header before receiving the fds. 05:32:56 -!- daggy1234[m] has joined. 05:32:57 -!- craigoverend[m] has joined. 05:34:02 Then you should have to expect a reply, I suppose 05:36:57 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 05:46:33 Since this is because I want to play around with the wayland protocol, I’m looking what they actually do in their own C code, and, well, they buffer outbound messages so basically you can’t know in advance where in the stream the fds are attached at all. You just have to always expect up to 28 (that’s a #define in their code) and maintain a queue of them alongside reading messages from the 05:46:35 socket. 05:48:15 Wait, the Wayland protocol sends file descriptors over a stream socket? 05:48:27 Yes. 05:49:17 Well, I guess the best thing to be said in favor of the Wayland protocol is that you're pretty much not allowed to implement it yourself anyway. 05:49:28 So it doesn't matter what nonsense they do. 06:01:07 -!- Deewiant has joined. 06:16:25 One of the things they’re used for is to avoid sending bulk data in-band. I think if you copy-paste something, the actual data never passes through the server, one client just sends an fd which the server then sends to another client who can then read the clipboard content from it. 06:26:55 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:29:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:29:08 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:34:12 -!- spruit11_ has joined. 06:34:13 -!- jryans has joined. 06:37:00 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:40:02 -!- spruit11_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:45:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:53:15 -!- spruit11 has joined. 06:57:58 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:00:11 -!- spruit11 has joined. 07:15:43 [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87086&oldid=84499 * Zzo38 * (+616) 07:33:02 -!- leah2 has quit (Quit: trotz alledem!). 07:33:14 -!- leah2 has joined. 08:06:02 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:36 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:34:08 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1). 08:34:29 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:40:28 -!- delta23 has joined. 08:41:06 -!- delta23 has quit (Client Quit). 09:02:08 -!- EPic_ has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 09:02:16 -!- APic has joined. 10:31:07 [[BF instruction minimalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87087&oldid=80413 * WallGraffiti * (+0) 10:37:52 -!- nakilon has joined. 11:58:10 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:08:23 -!- APic has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number). 12:13:32 -!- APic has joined. 12:43:09 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 12:51:23 -!- dutch has joined. 12:55:34 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Markverb1 * New user account 13:00:02 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87088&oldid=86888 * Markverb1 * (+275) added my name to here 13:09:26 [[User:Markverb1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87089 * Markverb1 * (+551) Created page with "
mar [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87090&oldid=86340 * Martsadas * (-130) 15:06:35 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87091&oldid=87090 * Martsadas * (+23713) 16:10:23 -!- archenoth has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:29:33 -!- archenoth has joined. 16:39:55 -!- river has joined. 16:40:01 hello esotericians 16:40:30 why?... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%92%80%B1 16:40:53 Woah!!!! 16:40:59 thats so cool thanks for sharing 16:41:15 use it now as a variable identifier 16:41:18 everywhere 16:44:13 https://www.reddit.com/r/Unicode/comments/5qa7e7/widestlongest_unicode_characters_list/ 16:45:22 ̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺̺ͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩ 16:46:29 https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+130B8#:~:text=Unicode%20Character%20%E2%80%9C%F0%93%82%B8%E2%80%9D%20(U,Egyptian%20Hieroglyph%20D052 16:47:06 omg that's all the alphabet I need 𓂸 16:47:31 𓂸𓂸𓂸𓂸 16:47:36 haha 16:47:45 i love unicode 16:47:56 they're adding pregnant men emojis now 16:48:11 https://emojipedia.org/unicode-14.0/ 16:48:20 every possible permutation and combination of emojis needs to be added 16:49:37 -!- SGautam has joined. 16:51:50 my favourite unicode symbol is "invisible plus" 16:52:04 ,u invisible plus 16:52:13 there it is 16:52:36 invisible times separator and plus 16:53:07 not to be confused with zero width joiner 16:53:56 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:08:47 20:08:38 *** 𓂸: Erroneous Nickname 17:08:49 damn 17:11:43 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 17:16:31 someone really should declare a unicode version without useless stuff 17:17:03 there is no need of storing images of pregnant men and shumere symbols on all my devices, I just don't want them 17:18:17 I don't know if you necessarily need a different Unicode version for that, you just need a font with less coverage. 17:18:43 maybe 17:18:54 `' may you live 17:18:55 990) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) 17:20:43 That's pretty nifty. It renews the hope of typesetting maths with Unicode alone. 17:22:34 I'm ok with ability to use the same application and font to be able to write text to each other using native alphabets of all existing languages on the earth 17:23:20 but pregnant men isn't a language, it's just a "random" image that I might not want to be inserted in my screen in random chats 17:25:38 I would limit color usage at all 17:26:18 to only maybe country flags and as a modifier to usual symbols to make is possible to type a red circle, green arrow, etc. 17:26:55 What's a "green arrow"? Doesn't sound like a language, just some random image~ 17:27:19 ok, remove colors then 17:27:31 apply styles in other ways 17:29:33 Or maybe Unicode's bigger than your individual needs and desires. 17:30:09 it's them who are pushing their personal needs and desires onto my screen 17:30:44 pushing their things into a standard 17:31:24 forcing my software download the pictures I don't want with every update 17:32:09 waah waah 17:32:23 who gives a shit 17:32:55 aren't there bigger problems in the world 17:33:22 are you also upset about all the flags of countries you don't like and all the symbols of religions you don't adhere to 17:33:23 That's a fallacy. No amount of improvement to Unicode will magically put food onto peoples' plates, for example. 17:33:29 why shouldn't unicode be for you and only you 17:33:56 But yeah, basically, Unicode is an international diplomatic project too, not just an engineering project. 17:34:27 where did I say I'm "upset about the flags of countries I don't like"? 17:34:43 you sound like the people who get angry because starbucks didn't write "merry christmas" on their coffee cup 17:34:44 [[Smileyface]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87092 * Martsadas * (+1399) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=:)}}
:) is an esolang that only uses smileys

Valid tokens :) :P :] :> :D :O

Valid instructions:
..." 17:35:10 don't bring the politics in here 17:35:19 you already did 17:35:27 what? 17:36:56 The position that there is "useless stuff" in Unicode is political. 17:37:05 woah 17:37:58 Seriously! fizzie had an excellent summary of why in their first reply: You can customize your own display of Unicode in any way that you want, assuming you control your computer. You can choose whichever fonts you like, and you can configure your renderer to avoid wasting energy decoding "useless" code points. 17:38:36 Going beyond that, altering the shared standard itself, is quite political, even ignoring the geopolitics and diplomacy: You're trying to change policies which affect many people. 17:38:41 that's what the community projects are for 17:38:59 reject bad standards, adopting better standards 17:39:41 they are changing the policies that are affecting me 17:39:47 and all the people 17:40:22 when my grandma bought a smartphone she didn't accept the policy of getting egyptian dickpics in SMS 17:41:31 lots of codepages were invented in lots of countries for their local needs and that's what unicode was supposed to solve by uniting the alphabets and the most basic symbols 17:41:34 but it went shit 17:42:00 Ambiguous "they" fallacy. The "they" who produce smartphone fonts (Apple, Google) are not the Unicode Consortium. 17:42:31 I didn't say apple and google did that 17:43:04 but they would be able to switch or provide an option to switch to a new standard without shit 17:44:49 20:34:27 where did I say I'm "upset about the flags of countries I don't like"? 17:44:58 the question is still not answered 17:44:58 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87093&oldid=87078 * PixelatedStarfish * (+62) 17:45:26 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded "[[File:Hing.png]]" 17:46:49 it was a question not a statement 17:47:32 okay 17:49:02 [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Hing.png]]" 17:50:47 those who want more symbols can just "customize their own display of Unicode" 17:51:05 not mine 17:52:06 the country flags in Unicode are seriously messed up, because the individual flags are not encoded directly, but through their ISO-3166-1 codes, and those codes can be reassigned to entirely unrelated countries, which means that if you encode a flag in unicode, it can be replaced by an entirely different flag later. The whole thing is so new that only like two codes got reassigned so far, and those were 17:52:12 probably before the flags got encoded in unicode this way, but this is the kind of short-sited arrangement by people who don't care what happens after they leave their current job, because they won't be accountable. 17:52:43 (Same as the people who ask for abolishing leap seconds, because it would make their job right now easier, and who cares what happens a hundred years from now. I hate those people.) 17:53:23 And it looks like not two but three ISO-3166-1 country codes got reassigned so far. 17:54:42 -!- Melvar has joined. 17:54:48 The whole thing goes against the general idea that unicode code points should have a permanent meaning that isn't changed in the future. Was probably invented by Americans who don't realize how often countries change. 17:55:11 Really trying to assign two-letter codes to countries was a disastrously stupid idea in first place. 17:55:15 Yeah, that's such a bogus situation. Somebody thought that they were being clever, but really they should have given an entire block over for country flags and left the top half unused for expansion. 17:56:33 . o O ( What happens if we ever get more than 676 countries? Maybe at that point we'd be too busy fighting to worry about country codes) 17:56:42 That's only an inventory for 676 codes, for a changing pool of about 200 countries. 17:57:10 Assuming you’re talking about flag emoji … technically the codepoints have fixed meaning: they are simply references to a separate standard (the one which assigns the two-letter codes). 17:57:32 twist: 677 countries fighting over who doesn't get a two letter country code. 17:57:36 how often do you use unicode flags anyway? I see them in games and on websites, and browsers are perfectly fine with inserting small gif/png pictures for them, and even if you browser is textual it's fine to write the language as a text 17:57:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:05 int-e: nah, it's only at 678 countries. at 677 countries, one of them is Taiwan and they can't get one anyway. 17:58:39 this is political 17:58:40 b_jonas: too real 17:58:48 though in practice there are quite some of those codes reserved for things that aren't countries, or aren't countries anymore, but were in too recent past and can't be reassigned yet 17:59:07 the stupidest part is that they also delete and reassign the corresonding top-level domain names 17:59:48 I'm not talking about the ones that are reassigned, because nobody really used the west sahara TLD, but about the Yugoslavia ones that were in some use but then got deleted 17:59:57 I was falsely muted on this channel when people brought politics in and I wasn't doing that 17:59:57 it's the ultimate way to break links 18:00:30 b_jonas: there is a taiwan flag emoji tho? https://emojipedia.org/flag-taiwan/ 18:01:14 or will you finally admit you muted me just because I'm Russian? 18:01:40 I won't be muted if I was American and just quoting the history of Indians 18:04:31 you -- users of this channel other than me -- were political; you were saying that this country is bad, this one is good, etc. -- I didn't say that, those were your words, your hate; and then you said a blatant lie that those were my words 18:05:21 and then muted me for a chat message a one page above YOUR hate messages, where I just quoted a historical fact 18:08:32 Just because you can't recognize when you pick political topics, does not mean that the topics weren't political. 18:09:51 sure, Yugoslavia and Taiwan sin't political, Russia is 18:10:55 you can't recognize when you apply double standards 18:11:09 whats the deal with taiwan? 18:11:41 nakilon: was this today you got muted? 18:11:52 not today 18:11:56 ok 18:12:40 but I never had an apology for the repetitive hate towards me by a small subset of local users 18:13:27 i dont know what happened 18:13:39 but my advice is forget about it 18:13:43 it probably doesn't matter 18:13:53 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 18:15:13 [[Smileyface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87096&oldid=87092 * Martsadas * (+905) 18:17:22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan this is annoying 18:17:28 they just should sort it out 18:17:33 should just* 18:18:02 I agree, they should just sort out all problems, then we wouldn't have any problems. 18:18:09 +1 18:18:21 The first rule of tautology club and all that. 18:18:25 I don't have a problem with them 18:18:33 they are thousands of kilometers away 18:20:38 I know a girl who studies a lot and learns Chinese to move to China 18:21:37 I mean mandarine or whatever it is, I have no clue 18:23:15 river: nah, we're probably happier while nothing is "sorted out", because that's a euphemism for war 18:38:51 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:46:12 what would the country code for independent California be? .ca is already taken 18:52:47 Georgia also already exists 18:53:22 -!- imode has joined. 18:59:25 keegan: us-CA 19:01:10 that's not a 2 letter country code 19:01:49 [[Smileyface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87097&oldid=87096 * Martsadas * (+4380) 19:02:25 cf is taken too 19:02:37 by the Central African Republic 19:03:40 in fact C followed by any of ALIFORN are all taken 19:04:16 [[Smileyface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87098&oldid=87097 * Martsadas * (+50) 19:04:43 [[User:Martsadas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87099&oldid=86766 * Martsadas * (+30) 19:05:07 [[User:Martsadas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87100&oldid=87099 * Martsadas * (+0) 19:05:21 [[User:Martsadas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87101&oldid=87100 * Martsadas * (+4) 19:06:34 [[Smileyface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87102&oldid=87098 * Martsadas * (+0) 19:17:08 yes, because there are only 676 two-letter codes and some letters are rare 19:17:43 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:17:57 there’s 17576 3-letter codes 19:18:05 maybe one of those would fit 19:18:31 or was that language codes 19:35:32 [[Functionality]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87103&oldid=87081 * Dominicentek * (-1) 19:43:52 nakilon: Well, I'm sorry that you feel wronged. 19:44:57 (It's hard to never be wrong.) 19:47:43 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmfdeWd0RMk 19:47:46 i linked this before 19:47:52 but its good so i have linked it again 20:13:45 Meh. The "joke" (buried in the middle of the video) is basing a system of measurements on 3 units all starting with c: c, the speed of light; cal, the calory, and C_4, the frequency of the middle C. 20:14:00 As far as I can tell, the rest is a lecture on units of measurements. 20:15:59 yes 20:16:04 i thought that was funny 20:16:10 sorry you didn't like it as much 20:17:15 It's a cute idea but I resent the attempt to waste my time (I clicked around the video until I found the joke instead) 20:18:07 I was wasting time anyway, so I don't resent that bit, but I was left disappointed because I was expecting a pun. 20:18:20 int-e: is that like the furlong fortnight wahtever the third was unit system? 20:18:30 The FFF system is mentioned in the video, yes. 20:18:32 (firkin) 20:18:38 hmmm 20:18:45 i never thought of it as wasting time on purpose 20:21:53 river: it's not exactly the video author's fault; aiui, youtube monetizes videos based on the time people spend watching them 20:25:20 farad 20:25:24 or fahrenheit 20:43:04 `q motio 20:43:05 482) FFS, building a perpetual motion machine should not be this hard. 20:53:58 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:55:41 -!- dermato has joined. 21:10:42 -!- vyv has joined. 21:12:13 -!- teaml has joined. 21:38:03 . o O ( The trick to making a perpetuum mobile is to just keep going. ) 21:39:06 you need a crank that never stops 21:39:17 turning 21:39:40 "Isn't that what all the perpetual motion proponents are, cranks that never stop?" 21:40:29 `q motio 21:40:30 482) FFS, building a perpetual motion machine should not be this hard. 21:40:47 still the same 21:41:38 There's a song about perpetual motion machine, but the lyrics are in Finnish, so I think you'll miss a lot of it, sorry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE7TOaTv3SI 21:41:44 The original is in Swedish, I believe. 21:42:28 is it one of those infinite songs? 21:42:33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_is_the_song_that_never_ends 21:42:49 No, it just describes a machine that produces electricity to keep itself going. 21:44:45 In Swedish, for reasons of fairness and equal time and all that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtua8rqCNC0 21:47:50 I did find an a cappella group doing a version in English at a live show in South Korea too, but... 22:02:55 -!- SGautam has joined. 22:10:31 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87104&oldid=87084 * TeamLightning * (+25) Changed Hello World to PL2 ASM, changed commit. 22:10:38 where is fungot 22:11:27 I just wanted to ask him if he's perpetual but he appears to be not _-- 22:17:23 Oh, huh. 22:19:10 It'll have been that TCP connection thing we discussed the last time this happened. 22:19:43 Which I said it won't help to solve until I can teach the Befunge part to (a) persist the ignore list and (b) autojoin channels, which takes some :effort:. 22:19:48 Let's just fix it manually again. 22:19:58 . o O ( optimistic TCP: the connection is half open ) 22:20:28 -!- fungot has joined. 22:20:43 It dropped off already on Aug 4 and I didn't notice. :/ 22:21:37 ^style 22:21:37 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube 22:21:46 fungot: what ircs you, my friend? 22:21:46 int-e: s/ thins/ this/ 22:23:12 fungot, is the future always in motion? 22:23:12 b_jonas: or is there some way to represent the fnord system and all local names are determined in the binary to install. 22:24:10 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 22:55:33 I hate to do temporal workarounds and doing things in the unplanned order 22:55:45 so velik is currently waiting for when I finish making my monitoring thing 22:56:06 and it weights when google fix the bug on their side 22:56:09 *waits 22:58:07 and I have no idea when it will be fixed because their ticket shows up as "195636524[Details unavailable.]" 22:58:25 (195 mln tickets?...) 23:08:03 Tempted to look that up, but I couldn't comment even if I did, so it'd be pretty pointless. 23:31:36 what? you can look up internal google tickets? 23:35:02 Well, I work there, and most of the time bugs with numbers like that are viewable to all employees. Though that might well be one of the exceptions, if it's a customer issue and might contain some identifying details. 23:36:32 woah 23:36:53 for how long you work there? 23:37:22 For a while now, since 2015. 23:41:54 that's cool; the Moscow office isn't for devs, only for client managers 23:42:49 AFAIK 23:48:46 what problems are you solving there? 23:49:11 Re offices, from what I've heard, the Helsinki office has like 12 people in it. And is just a few rented rooms in a building. Haven't even visited. 23:50:14 In terms of that, I've been keeping it on the level of "Android app development", that way I don't have to worry about what's public and what's not. 23:50:42 I think there's Cloud folks in our building somewhere though. 23:51:15 rainmakers 23:51:17 And Deepmind used to have two floors of it, they're the sexy and mysterious ones. Had it all locked down and everything. 23:52:08 There was a robotics lab or two in the floor plans in their bit. 23:52:42 (They've moved out now.) 23:56:17 have you seen a fancy 'g"-shaped chair? 23:57:45 there is one on the floor here where they do public meetups 23:58:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:59:41 int-e: ok, i interpreted the previous girl genius wrong, but at least i can blame the initial lack of color. 2021-08-10: 00:00:11 oh they have it in google street view https://goo.gl/maps/wd5fpPybgA4GNy9KA 00:02:43 chair is gone; but looks like you can have a virtual walk in the working space; they blurred a lot 00:03:05 Was going to say, not seeing a g-shaped chair. 00:04:48 -!- delta23 has joined. 00:09:01 I've not been to that many offices, but of the ones I've been to, I think the Zürich one's been the most whimsical. They've got a lot of these old ski lift cabins redecorated and repurposed for ad-hoc meetings. No Street View, though. 00:09:09 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87105&oldid=87091 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+530) Fxi mrinoer tpyose 00:36:35 fizzie: so you still work at Google? also the chairs are g-shaped when viewed from which direction? are they rocking chairs? 00:36:54 I haven't seen these chairs. 00:37:28 We've got some vaguely S-shaped chairs in some of the non-working spaces, I think they're a moderately well-known designer chair. 00:38:00 all you need to change S to g is to push hard in the right place hth 00:38:08 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panton_Chair <- those things 00:38:28 "The world's first moulded plastic chair, it is considered to be one of the masterpieces of Danish design." 00:40:44 oh, that's S-shaped without the top of the S. that's easy. 00:42:05 oerjan: I still don't remember who that is though :P 00:42:06 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:43:57 https://i.imgur.com/ZhywAwZ.png 00:44:17 * nakilon sighs about his idea of making IDE in CSS 00:44:47 thats an idea that pains me very much 00:44:50 please try it 00:44:56 _-- 00:45:35 can you even do that? 00:45:41 is css that advanced? 00:45:54 it's js, jquery 00:46:24 not the object Object 00:46:28 making IDE in CSS 00:47:41 found the chair https://www.setaprint.net/2015/07/letter-g-chair/ 00:47:47 but it was painted in brand colors 00:52:27 ah 00:57:33 int-e: that's lord moonbark, who i specifically excluded it being 00:58:32 int-e: he's the one who showed gil and trelawney thorpe the mirror in londinium 00:59:15 so many traitors 01:02:52 i was also confused by him fashionably wearing different clothes every time he appears 01:04:12 [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87106&oldid=87036 * Xorol * (-49) 01:04:55 i suppose a lot of the cast do that, but somehow that made it easier to believe it wasn't him on the first checking 01:06:59 . o O ( well we _are_ talking about a comic that has regularly made paper doll outfits as fan service ) 01:07:43 might be about time for a new intermission with H. Fashion Clank 01:13:00 or another month of the circus people doing a radio show? 01:13:23 this comic has had soooo many intermissions 01:13:39 tbf it is a rather long-running one too 01:25:01 -!- sprokl has joined. 01:25:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 01:25:09 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:25:09 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:25:20 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 01:25:58 [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87107&oldid=87106 * Xorol * (+470) Added a proof of turing-completeness 01:26:36 -!- Cale has joined. 01:27:18 int-e: and it's one of multiple comics that #esoteric is so much into that I keep consider if I should binge read it at some point. especially as I believe #esoteric,'s recommendation was most of what pushed me to read OotS, and I enjoy OotS a lot 01:27:55 int-e: i don't remember it being the circus people, thought it was the foglio author avatars 01:28:20 although back when it ran, that may have been less obvious 01:28:54 `? comics 01:28:58 Recommended comics include Yet Another Genius Gamer, Stuck Girl, Home of the Order, and Fantasy Stick Comic. The content of this list is not to be questioned. 01:29:01 oerjan: you're more likely to be right than I am 01:29:03 :P 01:29:09 OF COURSE I AM 01:29:16 although maybe i should check 01:29:30 huh, I don't recall that thing 01:30:24 `? o 01:30:26 o is a popular comedy fantasy webcomic. It's about a group called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence, and eventually stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order. 01:30:31 `? olist 01:30:32 olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html 01:32:48 `? g 01:32:50 g? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:32:58 `? glist 01:32:59 `? slist 01:33:00 glist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:33:01 `? smlist 01:33:01 Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck. 01:33:03 Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega. 01:33:10 `? gglist 01:33:11 gglist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:33:50 `? xkcdlist 01:33:51 xkcdlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:33:57 b_jonas: girl genius updates too regularly to have a list 01:33:58 `? iwclist 01:34:00 iwclist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:34:08 yeah 01:34:26 `? swlist 01:34:28 swlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:34:28 yafgc could be debated, but it updates frequently when it does 01:34:42 and IWC updates regularly except it updates an hour earlier than it should 01:35:07 `? ksbdlist 01:35:10 ksbdlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:35:13 i haven't got back to iwc since my hiatus 01:35:43 (sw is something some people here might recognize... if someone guesses ksbd that would surprise me a little bit, I guess) 01:37:12 Actually I'm reading two comics that fit "sw", fun. 01:37:32 I used to ring the pbflist, but then I started disliking that comic strip so I stopped with the update notifications, but also didn't dare to remove the command or the wisdom 01:37:36 Maybe I should abbreviate one of them as s&w instead 01:37:59 I also used to ring bobadventureslist and ehlist 01:38:50 (The comics I had in mind are: Sandra & Woo; Slack Wyrm; Kill Six Billion Demons) 01:39:24 i think i've heard the name Sandra & Woo and that's as close as i get 01:39:44 Sandra & Woo is another one that used to be good in the first few years 01:40:01 but didn't keep its quality 01:40:12 though on the plus side, it does have a mostly consistent update schedule 01:42:42 I'm particularly impressed with the drawing style of early Sandra & Woo by the way 01:42:47 i think schlock mercenary was the last comic i really got into but that has finished 01:42:53 which is, you know, unusual among webcomics I read 01:43:06 wait what? 01:43:11 Schlock Mercenary finished? 01:43:19 wasn't that one of the ever-going never finishing comic? 01:43:53 wow 01:44:45 is that the longest running webcomic with a definite end? 01:45:01 could be? 01:45:24 I think it also never had any missed days? 01:46:02 istr reading that too 01:46:11 https://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/nineteen-years/ "The comic has updated daily, every day, without fail, for nineteen years now." 01:46:22 And I don't think that failed during the last year either. 01:47:25 It wrapped up pretty well too. 01:47:58 most webcomics never come to a definite end, they're just abandonned. I know of some shorter webcomics that wrapped up properly, but not one that long. 01:48:11 https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WebcomicsLongRunners has it under the "Discontinued" section as the only thing that reached 20 years. 01:48:27 If Kevin & Kell ever actually ends, it'll beat it though. 01:48:57 I mean Irregular Webcomic is already pretty impressive, having concluded three times in eight years 01:49:42 and I think DMM is the record-keeper, having had three concluded webcomics, with five or six conclusions total 01:50:35 i wouldn't bet on that. 01:56:54 Joe the Circle is a bit odd, in that it has seasons, sort of like TV series, and has 13 seasons concluded, but it also started as a paper comic, like Bobadventures, so some of those aren't webcomics 01:57:32 but I haven't read enough of that comic to know if it had what counts as concluding the comic, as opposed to just concluding seasons or story arcs 02:02:52 https://jsfiddle.net/9vetsczw/ why do these columns of + and x are of the different height _<> 02:03:20 s/are// s/do/are/ 02:04:32 The xs have "padding-top: 0.5rem;" and the +s don't? 02:05:10 Or is that just for the whole chunk of them, I guess so. 02:06:43 yes, the padding is intended but the relative shift should not change 02:07:34 Curious. Maybe you need to do something to force a line spacing. 02:08:04 They are rendered with different fonts for me, in case that makes a difference. 02:09:22 (The +s come from Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, the xs for some unfathomable reason from DejaVu Sans.) 02:09:42 _Oo 02:10:08 (They both have "font-family: monospaced" as the computed style though.) 02:10:17 font is only specified in body as font-family: monospace 02:10:21 s/ced/ce/ yeah 02:10:23 yes 02:11:29 these fancy flex, grid things were said to make the life easier than table... 02:14:10 Well, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with that, because replacing the x with x makes it render all from the same fonts but doesn't fix the spacing. 02:14:59 Looking at the boxes though, it would seem that both columns have the exact same total height, just the padding causes everything else to get squeezed a little. 02:15:37 hmmmm 02:17:02 As in, for this browser both the #row_adders and #row_removers divs are 16x150 pixels, but the other one has 8 pixels of padding up top, leaving only 142 for the actual characters. 02:17:19 Maybe you can fix it by ensuring that there's a similar padding at the bottom of the other column. 02:17:26 (And the whole grid, to keep it in line.) 02:19:17 Well, doing that got it... a little bit better, but still not exactly right. Not going to fiddle any more with it. 02:20:44 (I don't know how people manage to make actually good-looking yet robust web things of that kind. Because there's definitely things that do work.) 02:23:24 added more paddings around, became almost ok https://jsfiddle.net/9vetsczw/1/but the "width: 1rem" does not seem to work at all 02:24:00 (space between "1/" and "but") 02:24:50 "I don't know how people manage to make" -- I feel like they just force sizes in "px" 02:25:34 not sure about text base aligning though, I tried to tweak that too 02:27:09 also there is some https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/line-height that also changes the size in some misterious way 02:30:48 oh, acrually the width:rem works it's just 1 height != 1 width, lol 02:59:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:24:24 switching from grid to flex solved the misterious paddings 05:04:45 [[Binary to unary conversion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87108&oldid=77367 * Xorol * (+0) /* Phyton 3.0 */ Fixed typo 05:42:15 [[OEIScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87109 * TriMill * (+4251) Created page 05:50:10 [[OEIScript/implementation.py]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87110 * TriMill * (+5870) Created page with "An implementation of [[OEIScript]] in Python 3. [https://pypi.org/project/requests/ requests] must be installed to use this interpreter, and an internet connection is required..." 05:52:32 [[OEIScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87111&oldid=87109 * TriMill * (+103) Added implementation 06:28:39 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:29:58 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:31:18 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:36:26 -!- delta23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:38:49 -!- delta23 has joined. 06:44:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:10:57 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:16:01 Now I made up a format for compact binary structured data, which is: http://sprunge.us/G7xVU8 Do you think this is good? 08:04:58 -!- Gozrad has quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat). 08:05:11 -!- Gozrad has joined. 08:05:29 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:33 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:26:53 structured how? 08:27:01 I see that it has long numbers 08:27:10 my book was teaching about long numbers 10:27:22 -!- zegalch has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:27:47 -!- zegalch has joined. 11:32:21 [[Smileyface]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87112&oldid=87102 * Martsadas * (+23) 11:44:18 -!- Argorok_ has joined. 11:46:54 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has joined. 11:51:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- daggy1234[m] has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- lifthrasiir_ has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- orin has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- Argorok has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- MrAureliusR has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:54 -!- perlbot has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:55 -!- leah2 has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:55 -!- craigoverend[m] has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:56 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (*.net *.split). 11:51:56 -!- integral has quit 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12:53:51 working on this jquery thing I have to test after every new line of code added ..D 12:54:05 because it always has an error 12:59:31 for example, there is a grid with "selected" cell, and at any time some cell should be selected so I decided when I remove the col or row containing the selected cell I select the left-top one; the first struggle was that there is no "remove event propagation" in jquery when you remove the containing row so the cell does not know you remove it, so 12:59:31 you have to loop along the row to check each cell if it's selected; and even when I do "if this==selected select(0,0)" on each cell before removal I've got a bug that if the selected cell was in the first row or col the top-left cell selected during the loop is gone in the end; I can't believe I've got caught in it 13:07:39 -!- Deewiant has joined. 13:35:33 [[Evil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87113&oldid=81352 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) /* Hello, world! */ w 13:36:37 -!- jryans has joined. 13:39:29 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:40:01 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:52:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:14:13 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:24:42 so no colorful annotations list yet https://i.imgur.com/CmNuI0a.png but it reads and writes the file 14:26:04 now switching away from JS to make the rasel<->rasela converter; then the runner; then the run reporter 15:30:31 fungot, if I were to want to disassemble you, what type and size of screwdriver should I bring? 15:30:31 b_jonas: i know. he demands the framework used in r5rs? 15:36:00 fungot, what kind of material is wolframane, and is it metalic or non-metalic? 15:36:00 b_jonas: one sec. 15:54:26 fungot: Are you just researching the topic now? 15:54:26 fizzie: what would it be unfair to give a 15 minute scribble, but i understood). to a top level 15:55:41 that's actually a cool answer 15:55:56 if bot sees he needs a time he says "one sec" and comes with an answer later 16:25:26 yeah 16:25:46 we give some time on exams for students to prepare their answer 16:25:55 must give them a fair chance to cheat 16:26:03 if they want to, that is 16:31:18 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:34:51 -!- imode has joined. 16:48:10 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87114&oldid=87034 * Dtuser1337 * (+190) added fizzbuzz 16:51:47 I cheated on exams once; still feeling bad about that _<> 16:55:12 *shrug* 16:59:01 [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87115&oldid=87114 * Dtuser1337 * (-300) i dont like showerror(x); commands. 17:02:06 -!- sprokl has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 17:02:20 -!- sprock has joined. 17:23:09 -!- Argorok has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:27:46 -!- Argorok has joined. 17:44:03 [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87116&oldid=85987 * Dtuser1337 * (+1658) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */ 17:44:19 [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87117&oldid=87116 * Dtuser1337 * (+0) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */ 17:44:29 [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87118&oldid=87117 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */ 17:46:18 [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87119&oldid=87118 * Dtuser1337 * (+66) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */ 17:46:20 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:39:15 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:57:22 -!- Argorok_ has joined. 18:58:23 -!- Argorok has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:58:23 -!- Argorok_ has changed nick to Argorok. 19:02:15 import is done https://i.imgur.com/q4QluzA.png 19:28:02 hi 19:45:10 hi 20:18:52 -!- SGautam has joined. 20:41:42 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:43:45 -!- slavfox has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in). 20:44:32 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:48:10 -!- slavfox has joined. 20:56:55 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to KeziahMason. 20:59:07 -!- KeziahMason has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 21:07:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:28:27 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:09:30 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:12:42 -!- dermato has joined. 23:12:46 -!- delta23 has joined. 23:32:05 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:32:59 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87120&oldid=87093 * PixelatedStarfish * (+100) /* Random Number (1 - 10) */ 23:33:12 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87121&oldid=87120 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* External Links */ 23:33:49 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87122&oldid=87121 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */ 23:33:59 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87123&oldid=87122 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* External Links */ 23:34:33 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87124&oldid=87123 * PixelatedStarfish * (-46) 23:35:02 -!- dermato has joined. 23:35:07 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87125&oldid=87124 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Hello World */ 23:41:32 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 2021-08-11: 00:30:29 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:35:24 -!- spruit11 has joined. 01:02:11 -!- archenoth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:58:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:14:12 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87126&oldid=87125 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Truth Machine */ 02:16:03 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87127&oldid=86801 * PixelatedStarfish * (+34) /* GridScript */ 02:19:20 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87128&oldid=87076 * PixelatedStarfish * (-71) /* Esolangs */ 02:20:41 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87129&oldid=87126 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Hello World */ 02:39:45 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:04:25 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87130&oldid=87129 * PixelatedStarfish * (+25) /* External Links */ 03:05:45 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87131&oldid=87130 * PixelatedStarfish * (+26) /* External Links */ 03:06:38 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87132&oldid=87131 * PixelatedStarfish * (+18) /* External Links */ 03:09:06 -!- dermato has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:17:28 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87133&oldid=86941 * PixelatedStarfish * (+295) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */ 03:18:06 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87134&oldid=87133 * PixelatedStarfish * (-171) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */ 03:18:27 [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87135&oldid=87134 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */ 03:21:52 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87136&oldid=87128 * PixelatedStarfish * (+108) /* Esolangs */ 03:24:50 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87137&oldid=87136 * PixelatedStarfish * (+20) /* Esolangs */ 03:25:11 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87138&oldid=87137 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Something */ 03:25:21 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87139&oldid=87138 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Blood32 */ 03:25:31 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87140&oldid=87139 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Heck */ 03:25:37 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87141&oldid=87140 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Something */ 03:30:47 -!- dermato has joined. 03:59:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:00:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 04:49:37 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:56:52 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 05:07:13 -!- teaml has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:37:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:27:33 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:28:46 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:28:48 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:46:34 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:05:27 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:30 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:03:14 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:17:28 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87142&oldid=87132 * PixelatedStarfish * (+395) 11:18:48 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87143&oldid=87142 * PixelatedStarfish * (-8) 11:31:06 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87144&oldid=87143 * PixelatedStarfish * (+142) 11:41:06 clear 12:17:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:23:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:35:59 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87145&oldid=87144 * PixelatedStarfish * (+827) /* Random Number (1 - 10) */ 12:42:20 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87146&oldid=87145 * PixelatedStarfish * (+41) /* Proof of Turing Completeness */ 12:44:33 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87147&oldid=87146 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Proof of Turing Completeness */ 12:45:12 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87148&oldid=87147 * PixelatedStarfish * (+40) /* Proof of Turing Completeness */ 12:45:45 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87149&oldid=87148 * PixelatedStarfish * (+29) /* External Links */ 12:45:56 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87150&oldid=87149 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */ 12:58:56 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 12:59:37 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:05:42 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87151&oldid=87150 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Proof of Turing Completeness */ 13:07:08 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87152&oldid=87151 * PixelatedStarfish * (+7) /* Proof of Turing Completeness */ 13:35:59 [[YPIMOOMFWAMOOMLWAMOOMNWAMOOMCWAMOOMFWAMOOMSWAMOOMTWAMOOMCWAMOOMB]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87153 * Martsadas * (+2439) Created page with "YPIMOOMFWAMOOMLWAMOOMNWAMOOMCWAMOOMFWAMOOMSWAMOOMTWAMOOMCWAMOOMB which stands for Your program is made out of many files which are made out of many libraries which a..." 13:36:32 [[User:Martsadas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87154&oldid=87101 * Martsadas * (+80) 13:36:52 [[User:Martsadas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87155&oldid=87154 * Martsadas * (+4) 13:37:21 A convenient and easily remembered name. 13:39:50 . o O ( It's inspired by the less successful Village People song called Y.P.I.M.O.O.M.F.W.A.M.O.O.M.L.W.A.M.O.O.M.N.W.A.M.O.O.M.C.W.A.M.O.O.M.F.W.A.M.O.O.M.S.W.A.M.O.O.M.T.W.A.M.O.O.M.C.W.A.M.O.O.M.B. ) 13:43:55 Is it interesting? MOOM would make a reasonable short name 13:46:58 TBH, from the current contents of the page, it looks like rather conventional imperative language. 13:50:25 [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87156&oldid=82070 * Betseg * (+85) 13:51:10 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87157&oldid=87021 * Betseg * (+16) /* E */ 13:51:53 Very sketchy... the "| Example" placeholders (I guess that's what they are) are confusing 13:56:55 [[Heck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87158&oldid=87152 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* External Links */ Cat 13:57:36 [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87159&oldid=87156 * Betseg * (+66) 13:58:56 [[Emojicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87160&oldid=87159 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35) See also, stub 13:59:44 [[Emoji]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87161&oldid=73465 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+26) /* External resources */ Emoji 13:59:55 [[Emoji]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87162&oldid=87161 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) /* See also */ other one 14:00:18 [[Emojicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87163&oldid=87160 * Betseg * (+45) 14:08:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:58:08 "Optimization_final Pass 2" reminds me of those files named xxx_FINAL_v2_REAL_FIXED.zip. 15:06:38 [[Emoji-gramming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87164&oldid=73429 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+44) See also 15:06:56 [[Emoji]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87165&oldid=87162 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+21) /* See also */ Emoji-gramming 15:52:51 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:56:34 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to awk. 17:00:13 -!- ircseeker3 has joined. 17:00:45 -!- awk has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 17:30:26 -!- imode has joined. 17:33:18 [[Talk:HelloWorld]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87166&oldid=82882 * Sanscicondos * (+303) Expansion? 17:58:10 -!- b_jonas has joined. 18:12:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 18:21:19 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:53:06 -!- teaml has joined. 19:50:42 -!- ircseeker3 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:30:22 -!- vyv has joined. 20:41:57 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 21:04:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:20:58 [[Whitespace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87167&oldid=84497 * Andrewarchi * (+38) Grammar 21:29:23 [[Functionality]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87168&oldid=87103 * Dominicentek * (-136) Removed gotos 21:29:39 [[Functionality]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87169&oldid=87168 * Dominicentek * (+0) Fixed number of instructions 21:31:29 -!- dutch has joined. 21:44:07 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:08 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 21:44:30 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 21:45:54 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:47:08 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 21:48:34 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:49:23 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 21:51:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:01:51 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Epicbebra]]": no useful content (only content is "Coming soon"), no history, no inbound links; feel free to recreate this once you have something to put on the page, but language pages should describe a language 22:02:04 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:02:25 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 22:12:41 -!- teaml has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:13:58 -!- delta23 has joined. 22:23:53 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87170&oldid=87014 * Tomhe * (+10) /* The Standard Library */ 22:53:42 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 23:43:00 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:43:02 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:48:30 [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87171&oldid=87170 * Tomhe * (+14) /* The Standard Library */ 23:56:43 -!- perlbot has joined. 23:58:44 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 2021-08-12: 00:18:41 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:18:44 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:25:38 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 00:27:09 -!- perlbot has joined. 01:49:04 -!- hendursaga has quit (Quit: hendursaga). 01:49:37 -!- hendursaga has joined. 01:52:19 -!- sprock has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:48 -!- sprock has joined. 02:08:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:27:49 -!- imode has joined. 02:53:56 -!- delta23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:54:20 -!- delta23 has joined. 02:55:47 -!- delta23 has quit (Client Quit). 03:24:22 -!- teaml has joined. 03:25:34 -!- teaml_ has joined. 03:29:05 -!- teaml has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:42:39 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 05:02:43 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.). 05:05:32 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 05:50:47 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87172&oldid=87104 * TeamLightning * (+22) /* Implementations */ changed GitHub link to point to main branch specifically 05:52:18 -!- teaml_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:28:01 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:29:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:29:43 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:53:02 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:31:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:46:52 https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=5661 07:48:09 > I noted that the BBB function grows uncomputably even given an oracle for the ordinary BB function. In fact, computing anything that grows as quickly as BBB is equivalent to solving any problem in the second level of the arithmetical hierarchy (where the computable functions are in the zeroth level, and the halting problem is in the first level) 07:48:10 :1:108: error: parse error on input ‘,’ 07:53:05 the beeping busy beaver is very interesting 07:53:23 how could 2nd level of the arithmetic hierarchy have influence on a function that gives finite numbers... 07:55:11 Why shouldn't it? 08:06:01 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:09:29 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:30:09 -!- Trieste_ has changed nick to Trieste. 08:49:05 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:21:24 -!- dermato has joined. 09:36:08 first level: phi(n) = exists k. psi(n, k), where psi is a sigma-0 sentence. second level: phi(n) = forall k. exists l. psi(n, k, l), again with a sigma-0 formula for psi... the latter is strictly more expressive... 09:37:29 (The former is \Sigma_0^1; k can be viewed as a number of steps; the latter is \Pi_0^2, k can be viewed as the number of beeps, and l as the number of steps needed to reach the next beep.) 09:38:52 (This is simplified though; in reality the variables need to encode whole TM runs with intermediate states.) 09:40:34 hmmm 09:41:14 that's just the corresponding halting problem 09:48:38 The function version of these are phi(n,v) = exists k. psi(n, v, k) encoding f(n) = v; k is the encoding of a run of the TM (so potentially much larger than v) that produces v as an output, and phi(n, v) = forall k. exists l. psi(n, v, k, l), where for example, k is a partial run of the TM, and l extends it to the point where the TM beeps again. 09:49:46 s/, and/. For the second level,/ 10:06:37 so it's kinda like halting but you count how many times it halts? 10:06:50 but generalized so its not 'halting' but some arbitrary state 10:23:42 -!- sprock has quit (Quit: brb). 10:24:04 -!- sprock has joined. 13:12:33 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:12:59 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:34:01 [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87173&oldid=70359 * Lyxal * (+64) /* A Question */ new section 13:34:30 [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87174&oldid=87173 * Lyxal * (+108) 13:35:30 [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87175&oldid=87174 * Lyxal * (+8) 14:36:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:16:46 -!- dermato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:28:33 -!- dermato has joined. 16:35:18 -!- imode has joined. 16:45:26 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.). 17:12:17 -!- ircseeker3 has joined. 17:51:04 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 18:07:15 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Corbin * New user account 18:16:08 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 18:16:18 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87176&oldid=87088 * Corbin * (+171) Introduce myself. It took a lot of effort to not use some variation of the Yoshikage Kira copypasta. 18:22:25 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:02:16 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:03:27 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:05:06 -!- hendursaga has joined. 19:40:57 [[NoCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87177 * Dominicentek * (+2149) Created page with "NoCode is an esoteric programming language written by [[User:Dominicentek]]. It doesn't have any source code. == How it works == This programming language has no syntax. It de..." 19:41:45 [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87178&oldid=87080 * Dominicentek * (+24) 19:50:30 [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87179&oldid=87178 * Dominicentek * (+4) 19:51:36 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87180&oldid=87157 * Dominicentek * (+12) /* N */ 19:52:09 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87181&oldid=87180 * Dominicentek * (+0) /* N */ 19:53:04 [[NoCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87182&oldid=87177 * Dominicentek * (-13) 20:49:34 -!- ecs has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:49:43 -!- ecs has joined. 20:50:07 -!- ecs has changed nick to Guest780. 20:51:59 -!- Guest780 has changed nick to ecs. 20:52:18 -!- ecs has changed hostmask to ~ecs@user/ecs. 21:12:12 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 21:20:31 -!- dutch has joined. 21:46:12 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:58:10 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 22:10:27 -!- ircseeker3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:53 -!- dutch has joined. 23:21:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:47:39 [[NoCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87183&oldid=87182 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+117) /* Interpreter */ sum(map(lambda x: Cat, "Cats")) 23:55:14 -!- craigoverend[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:55:18 -!- daggy1234[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:55:47 -!- jryans has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:55:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:55:54 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:57:01 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 267 seconds). 23:58:54 -!- FireFly has joined. 2021-08-13: 00:02:33 -!- sidelined has joined. 00:02:41 Do you filter colors? 00:02:42 █ █ ███ ██ 00:02:42 █ █ █ █ 00:02:42 █ ██ █ 00:02:42 █ █ █ 00:02:44 █ ███ ██ 00:02:49 -!- sidelined has quit (Client Quit). 00:08:25 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:12:54 lol 00:13:14 -!- hendursaga has joined. 00:13:25 That looks just fine in this terminal, but my browser's real bad at making monospace text actually monospaced. https://zem.fi/tmp/ugh.png 00:13:44 my font isn't monospace 00:13:52 I wonder why he did that 00:14:05 It's pretty clever. 00:14:25 (It says YES if you do filter out the colors, NO if you don't.) 00:14:48 it said YO to me 00:15:21 https://i.imgur.com/xGRi0OP.png 00:16:04 oh very clever 00:16:05 or VJ 00:16:32 You get the YES out of the browsable logs by highlighting the text: https://zem.fi/tmp/ugh2.png 00:16:46 (With a slight shadow of the NO still visible.) 00:16:58 woah 00:17:44 Of course all that doesn't really explain *why* come here to do that... experiment. But I guess why not. 00:18:59 fungot do you filter colors? 00:18:59 nakilon: pyrotechno ok. now i'm hungry. :( only one? good for him. ( and there are pi seconds in a fnord 00:19:20 ^rainbow NOT TOO LIKELY 00:19:20 NOT TOO LIKELY 00:20:32 ^rainbow XXXXXXXXX X X X X X X X X X 00:20:32 XXXXXXXXX X X X X X X X X X 00:21:14 ^rainbow X X X X X 00:21:14 X X X X X 00:23:25 There was also another one, but it seems to have become broken for me, I think probably because it now truncates in the middle of a UTF-8 sequence. 00:23:27 ^rainbow2 00:23:27 ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████ ...too much output! 00:23:28 wow, firefox is weird... it shows "YES" if I select the text, but switched to a grey "NO" when it loses focus... 00:23:44 guys, how do you pretty print json in command line? 00:24:01 `... | jq .` is what I always do. 00:24:04 ​...? No such file or directory 00:24:10 HackEso: That wasn't to you. 00:24:18 the json_pp from wherever it is on my machine is some perl script that is too slow and if I stop it prematurely it fucks up my session 00:25:06 https://0x0.st/-JgT.txt 00:26:38 I use jq so infrequently, I always need to look up how its pipelines and filters and general syntax works if I need to actually *do* anything with it, but I can (barely) manage to remember the `.` filter for just pretty-printing as a side effect. 00:28:21 yeah I wondered about that . 00:33:11 fizzie: Getting good at jq might not be worth it. It's a sort of tacit-ish concatenative-ish language, and it's nice for quick one-liners, but it allows modules and it gets unreadable quickly. 00:33:23 https://github.com/MostAwesomeDude/klesi/blob/master/cat.jq is about as good as I got with it. 00:33:59 nice, it's millions times faster than json_pp 00:54:33 On my computer the IRC colours are not even interpreted, so it does not say YES or NO 00:59:26 what does it say? 01:07:27 zzo38: it uses the █ block drawing character for the YES version 01:07:39 Right, but I guess it would be hard to make out anything if the color codes are left visible. 01:08:06 "not even interpreted"... oh 01:08:32 yeah that'll look awful 01:12:26 -!- craigoverend[m] has joined. 01:46:07 -!- daggy1234[m] has joined. 02:11:16 -!- jryans has joined. 02:16:12 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:23:23 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87184&oldid=87085 * KakkoiiChris * (+224) /* Arrays */ Added Args dynamic literal 02:39:34 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 03:07:04 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87185&oldid=87181 * PixelatedStarfish * (+10) /* H */ 03:09:00 [[Heck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87186&oldid=87158 * PixelatedStarfish * (-8) /* Program Examples */ 03:12:19 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:49 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 03:25:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:17:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33r6NXbelJk 04:19:23 -!- dermato has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1). 04:33:26 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 05:32:13 -!- imode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:21:37 -!- imode has joined. 06:28:54 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:30:22 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:30:22 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:52:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:22:41 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:23:39 -!- imode has joined. 07:28:33 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:05:58 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:24 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:38:05 `' fence 08:38:07 530) I mean, any organisation called the Scottish Defence League should be beating up English people, what other point would there be? 08:57:51 ^help 08:57:51 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 09:05:12 [[Functionality]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87187&oldid=87169 * Dominicentek * (+74) Changed operators 09:10:45 Never really thought about the inconsistency that "defence" (de-fence) involves *removing* fences rather than adding them. 09:34:12 fizzie: sometimes what a prefix denotes can be counterintuitive 09:45:07 Demonstrably. 09:47:00 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 10:04:49 is dewall something bigger then defence? 10:05:08 *than 10:05:59 Just another brick in dewall, as they say. 10:07:08 30 minutes ago I realised I'm dreaming 10:07:14 rare thing 10:07:37 nakilon: no, that's called raise a wall when you build one, or raze a wall when you destroy it, and the two are pronounced exactly the same 10:08:21 usually for different reasons I don't use that, and didn't use it now; because I was in a street, there was a crowd a run partying, there was a cool techno music playing 10:09:23 so I decided to wake up to sing and record that cool musical motive; not sure though how to use it -- there is no working service to find a music from a singing 10:09:57 android can finds music from just 1-2 sec of listening but it needs a real track 10:10:04 *can find 10:10:28 btw I hate that people use smartphones ~100-1000 times more than I do and don't even know android can do that 10:11:05 There's that hum-to-search thing, but I've not managed to get it to actually work. 10:11:09 https://blog.google/products/search/hum-to-search/ 10:11:48 s/a run/around 10:11:50 _Oo 10:13:53 fizzie hmmm from the gif it looks like they added it into the music search widget 10:14:41 now I understand why widget has changed the icon -- it's a part of "Google" application 10:14:47 and I recently updated it 10:16:55 Song detection (whether via the Google thing, Shazham or SoundHound) is definitely more robust when you've got a clip of an actual recording, even if it's pretty faint or garbled. The humming blog post claims "you don’t need perfect pitch to use this feature", but I feel like there's still some sort of a threshold, like you need to at least get the direction of most pitch changes right or 10:16:57 something. And I'm bad at making sounds with my mouth. 10:17:16 heh, it recognized the "Popcorn" track I just singed 10:17:42 and USSR anthem 10:17:46 damn, the thing works 10:18:13 even in faster tempo 10:19:38 :Unable to find a match" for my dream motive ( 10:19:46 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:22:19 I need to upload my recording everywhere with some viral text to make people write tracks then 10:32:05 I looked in a window and saw sky being so weird -- the blue part was white and the clouds were blue, like a negative; I said "dude, take a photo, quick!" and dude started making photos with his ball pen; I though his pen probably has crappy camera, but when I've found my camera it was too late, the sky phenomenon was over, then I went outside, 10:32:05 where the music was playing and people were walking, and one guy on a bicycle flew over our heads at the height of maybe 15 meters; I though "okay, but... he should land within at least 50 meters... hm, he does not land, he went even higher, this is weird, how he does that?..." -- and then I realised...; I hate taking cool photos in dreams -- there 10:32:05 is a huge photo album of beautiful sky there already, and I won't be surprised they are indeed saved in my memory, sometimes dreams have very old references 10:45:11 -!- Soni has joined. 12:56:21 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 12:57:03 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:48:39 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * VitalMixofNutrients * New user account 14:00:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:01:28 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:48:37 [[Ephemeral]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87188&oldid=68210 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Syntax */ Ununoverflow 14:48:50 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 14:53:01 [[User]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87189&oldid=68007 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+33) Stub 14:56:32 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 14:58:38 [[Portsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87190&oldid=86993 * RocketRace * (+266) Define 15:09:29 [[Portsy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87191&oldid=87190 * RocketRace * (-2) aaa 15:40:29 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:42:27 -!- hendursaga has joined. 15:48:19 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:17:05 -!- andydude has joined. 16:21:48 Never really thought about the inconsistency that "defence" (de-fence) involves *removing* fences rather than adding them. – It looks like it’s actually that “fence” is just a clipping of “defence”. 16:51:25 -!- hanif has joined. 16:53:34 recently learnt of this https://www.3blue1brown.com/blog/some1 , perhaps a first foray into making math videos 16:57:23 -!- imode has joined. 17:12:32 btw 17:12:59 защита -- defense, щит -- shield 17:13:50 it's kind of similar in Russian but it's about shield, not fence; and "за" does not mean "un", this particle does not have a particular sense 17:13:56 *meaning 17:14:52 particle without a particular meaning -- such a tautology, lol 17:20:12 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:38:40 the debian 11 release is coming up soon 17:44:24 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.). 18:12:28 [[User:Sanscicondos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87192&oldid=86506 * Sanscicondos * (+65) Added Neuron 18:13:54 [[User:Sanscicondos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87193&oldid=87192 * Sanscicondos * (+1) language teases, not project teases 18:14:24 [[User talk:Sanscicondos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87194&oldid=83069 * Sanscicondos * (-89) Removed Featured Language Prototype 18:24:18 I updated my miscellaneous-personal-use VPS (that I normally keep on stable) to bullseye already, because... uh, I forget, but it had a newer version of some software that I wanted on it. 18:32:45 I moved all the stuff to docker on both servers 18:34:32 occasionally host OS would need some updates probably, but instead of updating it directly I will probably just start another instance and move docker containers there one by one 18:35:22 (of course it should be possible to move them all together, I'll just use the event to review/clean any possible mess) 18:36:22 security updates are said to be installed automatically in cloud -- I never checked it but I believe them 18:39:06 "I will probably just start another instance" -- maybe you did the same, can't tell from your message 18:40:36 in fact I've never updated any linux installation ..D 18:40:43 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:45 -!- hanif has joined. 19:06:00 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:12:34 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87195&oldid=87184 * KakkoiiChris * (+761) /* Gosub (_+) */ Added syntax highlighting 19:12:59 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87196&oldid=87195 * KakkoiiChris * (-3) /* Gosub (_+) */ Fixed typo 19:15:20 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87197&oldid=87196 * KakkoiiChris * (-142) /* 99 bottles of beer */ Fixed return statement in first version 19:18:06 [[Category:Stupid family]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87198&oldid=81531 * WallGraffiti * (-1) that spelling mistake was nagging me 19:18:54 -!- delta23 has joined. 19:32:15 Nah, I did a "traditional" upgrade. 19:35:42 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87199&oldid=87197 * KakkoiiChris * (+81) /* Gosub (_+) */ Changed example 19:37:15 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87200&oldid=87199 * KakkoiiChris * (+302) /* Return (_-) */ Added syntax highlighting 19:39:09 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87201&oldid=87200 * KakkoiiChris * (+0) /* Operators */ Fixed level 13 precedence 19:50:45 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to KeziahMason. 20:03:19 [[User:TeamLightning]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87202&oldid=87042 * TeamLightning * (+27) Updating this to be less terrible and more descriptive 20:14:20 -!- KeziahMason has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 20:22:47 [[OLNMLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87203&oldid=84329 * Grs * (-7000) Code removed,github link 20:57:04 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 21:01:01 -!- dutch has joined. 21:02:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMgCBYgVwsI what did he mean by this 21:42:06 [[PL2 vCPU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87204&oldid=87172 * TeamLightning * (-3) /* Overview */ changed extensible to modular to match GitHub description 21:47:42 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87205&oldid=87201 * KakkoiiChris * (+233) /* Unary Operators */ Casts can affect arrays too 22:07:58 -!- sprock has quit (Quit: brb). 22:09:35 -!- sprock has joined. 22:48:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:01:27 ...whose bright idea was to stick to 32 bit ints on 64 bit platforms... 23:07:21 I suspect there are several people to blame for that. 23:10:03 (I did x & (1 << n) stuff without the proper cast; I should stick to (x >> n) & 1 instead) 23:11:12 fizzie: I imagine that it reduced the amount of broken code when the world transitioned from 32 to 64 bit architectures, but by now it's more of a technical debt to my mind 23:15:50 Go's model is to have the set of integer types be int8, int16, int32 and int64, and then make the `int` type an alias for int32 or int64 depending on the target architecture, but make everything (slice lengths, indices, whatever) consistently use the `int` type. Maybe that's a reasonable one. 23:16:41 As for C, wouldn't it be nice if a `long short` was a 24-bit type, and a `short long` was a 48-bit one? 23:18:06 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 23:19:30 -!- dutch has joined. 23:20:14 -!- Noisytoot_ has joined. 23:20:47 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:11 it would be cute... reducing the power of two... 23:36:07 -!- Noisytoot_ has changed nick to Noisytoot. 23:55:28 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 23:57:42 -!- dutch has joined. 2021-08-14: 00:05:23 @metar ENVA 00:05:24 ENVA 132350Z 26013KT 9999 -RA BKN010 15/14 Q1005 RMK WIND 670FT 28014KT 00:34:35 -!- Bowserinator_ has joined. 00:35:24 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:56:56 -!- mnrmnaughmnrgle has joined. 00:57:51 Speaking of things, does anyone happen to remember a game where you tried to catch falling shapes (I think mostly polyhedra), and when you caught one a voice would speak out one of those Exxx food additive codes, and the name would show up on the screen, and you got points? 00:59:45 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:06:46 -!- andydude has quit (Quit: andydude). 01:21:23 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 01:26:27 -!- dutch has joined. 01:34:36 Is there an index of languages by natural/obvious intermediate data structures? I'm thinking not just about ZISC, but about the underlying endomorphism of a ZISC setup. 01:36:57 Like, Brainfuck's data structure is a list of nats and an index/zipper into that list, and instead of one endomorphism there's six endomorphisms plus a functor which builds loops. 01:40:35 fizzie: The most recent experience where I had to catch a falling polyhedron was when I replayed Portal :P 01:43:34 Usually brainfuck uses a list of bytes (or, a tape of bytes), although some implementations can use other cell sizes too 01:47:03 speaking about ints and cell sizes 01:47:47 imagine memory model where every second byte consists of another number of bits 01:48:00 don't ask why 01:49:12 int-e: This was a 2D game (except the polyhedra were sprites that were animated to rotate). Also some of them (maybe the platonic solids? maybe not) were "bad" and you needed to avoid them, and that was the main gameplay challenge. 01:49:44 another idea 01:50:03 fizzie: I got that (well, not the 2D part...) and it didn't ring a bell at all. 01:50:17 Neither does the Ennn thing for that matter. 01:50:23 -!- andydude has joined. 01:50:23 -!- andydude has quit (Client Quit). 01:50:38 you know when you are making notes on a paper and if you write the same digit 100 times it gets copied on the other side of a page, and on the next page 01:50:51 and if you write it even more you can make a hole in paper 01:51:31 so you should not write the same data to the same address or it will make holes 01:52:04 int-e: I feel like maybe the voice was speaking Finnish when it said the codes out loud, which would probably mean this was maybe a game with a pretty limited audience. 01:53:17 does the word "finish" have the same etymology with Finnish? 01:53:48 zzo38: Sure. The exact type used for cells doesn't matter much to me, and in fact I think it's nifty to imagine that many different flavors of Brainfuck are merely parameterized that way. 01:55:17 Ha! https://pouet.net/prod.php?which=3393 01:55:38 The bad ones are the outline ones, the filled ones are good. 01:57:39 ok, two online etymology dictionaries say there is nothing common 01:57:42 (And I think finish/Finnish are unrelated, but don't really know. Lots of bad jokes about their similarity though.) 02:00:01 I know none 02:01:25 First you'll have to cross the finnishing line. 02:02:45 Why is it impossible to hold a race in Finland? Because in Finland, every line is a Finnish line. 02:03:10 fizzie: Seriously though, the number of such jokes probably increases the closer you get to Finland. 02:03:47 Because then you'll have tons of teenagers learning English who find these things irresistably funny. 02:03:50 "I've been working on a Scandinavian joke. It would be Swede if I could Finnish it, but right now there's just Norway." 02:04:37 That one is pretty good and I'm pretty sure I've never heard it. 02:05:14 Yeah, I hadn't heard that one either. I think the wob page I landed on had a few novel ones. 02:05:19 "Why will you never win a race against a runner from Finland? Because before you even start, they are already Finnish." 02:05:31 A lot of them are about the "Finnish line". 02:06:17 There's also a few that play on "Russian to Finnish" ~ "rushing to finish". 02:07:18 lol 02:07:33 I feel like there's some others with a different structure, but can't recall any now. 02:07:42 there is no joke about Ukraine 02:07:52 because its name is kind of a joke already 02:08:13 In English, maybe something about cranes. 02:09:06 the word Ukraine came from "okraina" that means "outskirts (of Russia)" 02:12:28 i thought about (or maybe read here about, and forgot) a version of brainfuck generalized to arbitrary algebraic data types for the cell 02:19:05 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:21:37 -!- hendursaga has joined. 02:23:23 -!- hendursaga has quit (Client Quit). 02:32:40 -!- hendursaga has joined. 03:07:55 -!- mnrmnaughmnrgle has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 03:47:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:23:25 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to KeziahMason. 04:32:51 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 04:33:01 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Client Quit). 04:37:43 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 05:05:56 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87206&oldid=87205 * KakkoiiChris * (+89) /* Fixed Range Access */ Reworded explaination and comments 05:07:13 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87207&oldid=87206 * KakkoiiChris * (+1) /* Statements */ Fixed formatting 05:11:05 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87208&oldid=87207 * KakkoiiChris * (+95) /* String Output */ Fixed formatting 05:11:42 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87209&oldid=87208 * KakkoiiChris * (+19) /* If Statement */ Fixed formatting 05:12:05 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87210&oldid=87209 * KakkoiiChris * (+19) /* Do While Loop */ Fixed formatting 05:13:13 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87211&oldid=87210 * KakkoiiChris * (+38) /* For Loop */ Fixed formatting 05:14:23 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87212&oldid=87211 * KakkoiiChris * (+58) /* String Input */ Fixed formatting 05:15:13 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:15:42 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87213&oldid=87212 * KakkoiiChris * (+0) /* If Statement */ Fixed code 05:23:13 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:24:09 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87214&oldid=87213 * KakkoiiChris * (+1926) /* Design Patterns */ Added while loop 05:35:21 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 05:42:25 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:46:04 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:54:10 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 06:10:32 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:29:45 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:31:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:31:38 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:35:14 Other variants of the limits of values of cells in brainfuck is also possible, other than being the same for each cell, they can be different in different cells, dynamic based on other cells, etc. There maight also be possibilities other than simply a number. 06:36:15 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87215&oldid=87214 * KakkoiiChris * (+939) /* Operators */ Added string cast operator 06:38:53 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 07:15:23 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 08:05:36 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:52 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:34:43 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 09:16:43 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 09:17:46 -!- dutch has joined. 09:34:20 -!- delta23 has joined. 10:03:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:23:15 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 10:56:56 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:10:07 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:20:36 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 14:57:03 -!- delta23 has joined. 15:25:31 [[Talk:List of quines]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87216 * TheJonyMyster * (+297) Created page with "==Your== Should the example for [[Your]] be on here, especially in the "real quines" section? Not only is it a joke language, but on it's page, Your Your Your Your is a truth..." 15:39:34 wikipedia calls (...|...) in regex a "Boolean 'or'" 15:39:45 are there alternative names for this? 15:40:31 I would call it a "'choice' operator" to describe the similar thing in my own syntax but I decided to check how it's called elsewhere 15:42:20 hm, looks like it's also "or" in BNF 15:42:38 [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87217&oldid=86113 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-49) [[#Your|Your]]) (Remove non-quine) 15:44:07 [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87218&oldid=86980 * TheJonyMyster * (+0) 15:44:46 [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87219&oldid=87218 * TheJonyMyster * (+0) Undo revision 87218 by [[Special:Contributions/TheJonyMyster|TheJonyMyster]] ([[User talk:TheJonyMyster|talk]]) 15:45:42 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87220&oldid=87219 * TheJonyMyster * (+0) updated interpreter link 15:48:36 -!- V has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:54:44 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2). 16:01:13 I would probably also pronounce it “or”, or possibly “alt”, but the n-ary version I would call “choice”. 16:03:09 -!- dutch has joined. 16:25:37 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:26:33 -!- mich181189 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:27:43 -!- mich181189 has joined. 17:17:28 alternative 17:17:39 choice 17:26:38 I ended up with this somehow: The "or-group" [ ] tries to match the object with any of a given list of schemas. 18:02:35 I call it the "alternative". 18:03:10 Or "alternation", maybe. 18:03:34 That's what Wikipedia uses under the "formal definition" part: concatenation, alternation and Kleene star. 18:13:32 -!- imode has joined. 18:29:35 -!- V has joined. 18:32:18 -!- V has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:33 -!- V has joined. 18:32:36 -!- V has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:34:28 -!- V has joined. 18:40:33 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:55:17 -!- Argorok has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:55:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:55:30 -!- aarchi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:55:30 -!- dnm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:57:30 -!- faxlore has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:57:41 "...whose bright idea was to stick to 32 bit ints on 64 bit platforms..." => you must mean x86_64, which does that 18:58:06 I mean, it's not alone in that. 18:58:16 -!- integral has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:58:31 Itanium's int was 32 bits too; checked because I had a feeling it might not have been. 18:59:41 -!- faxlore has joined. 18:59:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:59:53 -!- river has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:00:05 And AArch64, which I guess is probably the second most common "64-bit" platform. 19:00:12 -!- aarchi has joined. 19:00:39 -!- dnm has joined. 19:00:39 -!- integral has joined. 19:00:58 "Lots of bad jokes about their similarity though." => ah, like Ostrich-Hungry 19:01:09 -!- Argorok has joined. 19:01:39 -!- river has joined. 19:02:47 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:03:02 (Finnish and finish) 19:03:13 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 19:28:46 -!- gruuf has joined. 19:37:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:19:43 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87221 * CosmicMan08 * (+3428) Created page with "9f87m4atttaaaou; (pronounced Mashed Potatolang) is a Stack-Based esolang by CosmicMan08#1975 ([[User:CosmicMan08]]). It was designed to make it look like any program made in i..." 20:20:15 [[Potatolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87222 * CosmicMan08 * (+30) Redirected page to [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] 20:20:26 [[Mashed Potatolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87223 * CosmicMan08 * (+30) Redirected page to [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] 20:51:03 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:58:14 -!- gruuf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1). 20:58:46 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 21:32:37 Debian bullseye is out now, by the way. 21:35:29 good to know 21:47:26 sounds like a new iphone 21:47:33 Hmm, how do these things work, when do they bump the version of sid (=unstable)? 21:48:03 btw heard that Apple invented another way to force people buying new iPhone even if previous one still works 21:48:27 they are now unlocking older devices for police needs 21:50:25 only older devices though? 21:50:26 lol 21:51:19 Uh, if you buy a new iPhone because Apple's unlocking old iPhones then you didn't get the message AT ALL. 21:53:00 I don't buy iphones at all 21:59:09 int-e: AIUI, sid and the current testing (now bookworm) does not officially have a version number. As in, the InRelease file that describes the archive doesn't have a "Version:" tag at all, and its decription just calls it "Debian x.y". I imagine they've had to put a number in some places though as a placeholder, and I don't know when those change. 22:00:42 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:01:31 fizzie: Fair enough. I'm looking at /etc/issue for this :) 22:02:11 Anyway, I'll wait a week or two before upgrading, as usual. 22:03:04 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 22:03:13 I'll be waiting a while too, but not because I want to be sensible and measured and all that; it's purely out of laziness. 22:19:41 [[Sokolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87224 * FLeckami21 * (+3444) Created page with "{{ WIP }} Sokolang is a programming language created by [[User:FLeckami21|FLeckami]] that use Sokoban gameplay to execute commands. ==File structure== Here is an exemple file..." 22:19:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:23:35 [[Sokolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87225&oldid=87224 * FLeckami21 * (+129) adding a small thing 22:32:27 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 22:33:17 -!- hendursaga has joined. 22:40:21 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87226&oldid=87221 * CosmicMan08 * (+48) 22:48:31 didn't see arseniv for a while 22:53:44 from my esolang wiki categories page I've found three languages with [Work-in-progress] langs are probably not in progress for a while in fact 22:53:51 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Andrew%27s_Programming_Language 22:53:55 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Preposterous_Programming_Language 22:54:01 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bytemap 23:04:52 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87227&oldid=87226 * CosmicMan08 * (+0) 2021-08-15: 00:24:28 -!- Bowserinator_ has changed nick to Bowserinator. 00:32:25 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87228&oldid=87227 * CosmicMan08 * (+86) 01:15:17 I just realised xxd and hexdump might be able to convert any file into a valid Netpbm image 01:16:28 only needs the "P1 #{rows} #{cols} " header string attached 01:16:33 prepended 01:19:02 I wonder if there is any utility to make all lines in files N chars long appending the spaces so the source file would me aligned for export 01:20:41 -!- V has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:26:42 nvm snippet from here works 01:26:43 https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/programming-9/shell-question-pad-end-of-each-line-with-spaces-to-%3D-80-chars-875082/#post4326916 01:29:48 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GermanSpetsnaz * New user account 01:33:52 -!- V has joined. 01:36:37 . o O ( that _almost_ sounds like it should be a bannable name ) 01:46:51 Do we have guidelines for how to cite things? I vaguely remember how it was done on WP, if that's how it's done. 01:48:48 we don't do much citing, but we (or at least ais523) do have sort of a meta-rule to default to wikipedia behavior when there's no reason to do differently 01:49:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources then? 01:49:28 we don't have citation templates. that i know of. 01:51:37 ok in that case there _is_ a reason: "that's way overcomplicated" 01:52:33 Ha, fair. 01:54:56 oerjan: Hmm, someone has tried and failed for an hour or so yesterday to introduce themselves, I think because they kept ignoring the "do not include any external links" rule. 01:55:12 that happens 01:55:34 It's already red and in bold type. :/ 01:57:00 Aw, is it "VitalMixofNutrients"? I was hoping that that was a hilarious real-person nick and not a spammer. 01:57:39 The message they were trying to add to the introductions page sounds pretty legitimate. 01:58:13 It just has links to their gitlab.com page, and a non-wiki link to BitBitJump. 01:58:38 Mm. Hopefully they'll figure it out. 02:01:58 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87229&oldid=87228 * CosmicMan08 * (+57) 02:03:38 There's also a pretty long actual attempted new article/language called "Tense" a while back that got blocked by the introduction requirement. Sad. 02:06:26 Is there a way to manually intervene and rescue those, once the introductions are done? I guess folks probably don't follow up if they fail. 02:07:20 * Corbin should save their new-page buffer before submitting 02:07:40 They're saved in the filter log. Which is public, so anyone can dig it up from there. I just don't know what the ethics of doing so are. 02:08:48 Technically the content is "on" the site already. And they did click submit on it, so there was intent to add it. 02:09:40 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87230&oldid=87176 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+222) /* Introductions */ 02:10:23 Apparently the [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] page is also right on the critical 200k size boundary for the no-large-edits rule and therefore uneditable. Not sure what should be done with that one, it's a little unwieldy. 02:10:57 has anyone got caught by that? 02:11:41 PixelatedStarfish attempted (but failed) to add a Heck hello world a while back. 02:12:27 yay, Debian! 02:12:56 And the page edit history has a "I'm trying to add Godencode, but it hasn't been letting me. Making it a 2-step process might work?" note, but it ended up with them just adding "Too long to fit here, find on Godencode's page" on the page. 02:13:02 [[\ELLOWOS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87231 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+0) Created blank page 02:13:53 int-e: I think the sid version was dumped a while ago, when they closed Debian 11 for new stuff (as opposed to fixing the existing stuff so they can release it) to start Debian 12 02:14:21 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87232&oldid=87185 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+15) /* Non-alphabetic */ 02:14:48 int-e: I usually look at /etc/debian_version for the version number 02:14:51 it says 10.10 02:15:13 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87233&oldid=87232 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+0) /* Non-alphabetic */ 02:15:40 [[XTW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87234&oldid=71032 * Zseri * (+7) reference implementation got taken down, won't be available because it relies on outdated libs, too 02:18:27 11.0 is what my sid system's /etc/debian_version says. That, and /etc/issue, are both from the `base-files` package, which is at version 11.1. 02:18:48 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87235&oldid=87231 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+139) 02:20:02 "It's already red and in bold type." => 02:21:11 https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/b/base-files/changelog-11.1 02:21:40 (But the version of that in sid is exactly the same as in buster.) 02:21:48 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87236&oldid=87235 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+304) 02:23:59 as for [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]], maybe we should just split it to five smaller pages, split alphabetically by the name of the language 02:24:33 $ echo "P2 80 500 255" >temp.pgm ; curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/fis/fungot/master/fungot.b98 | ruby -ne'print"%-80s"%$_.chomp' | od -An -vtu1 >>temp.pgm 02:24:33 nakilon: so am i. luckily i knew the guy who did fnord? 02:24:35 [[Cammy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87237 * Corbin * (+2816) Get started. 02:24:37 fizzie: hmm ok 02:24:50 results in such image: https://i.imgur.com/GbfFnEq.png 02:25:29 the only problem with this snippet is I hardcode the height 500px by knowing the length of that file ahead 02:25:41 (about the sid version) 02:26:02 could add it somewhere in ruby command but it would increase the command length 02:26:20 Heh. That looks a lot like one of those mini-maps IDEs and editors occasionally have. 02:26:51 I can make out the punctuation triangle. 02:27:24 I still don't understand why I thought it must be triangle-shaped (it could just as well be comb-shaped and a lot more compact) but I don't want to change it at this point, it's too iconic™. 02:27:30 let me read the announcement https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210814 02:29:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:29:21 -!- delta23 has joined. 02:29:41 heh, but you won't be able to recover the code from the minimap but yeah, looks very similar 02:29:47 well, I'll install Debian 11 "soon" 02:29:53 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87238&oldid=87236 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+352) 02:30:16 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87239&oldid=87238 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+3) 02:30:24 "punctuation triangle" -- oh no, you've ruined the secret of that triangle purpose 02:31:12 It's got a comment right next to it. ;) 02:31:21 (The "0SE":,)'..!f"('?/s" line is a comment.) 02:31:41 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87240&oldid=87239 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+20) 02:32:49 very comprehensive comment 02:33:25 I suppose if I reverse the bits in bytes then such format would even survive the jpeg artifacts 02:33:30 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87241&oldid=87240 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+403) 02:33:43 I mean it would recoverable 02:34:29 no big surprises in that release announcement 02:34:30 so it would be a lossy image format for code 02:34:56 fizzie: you can provide two different shapes for essentially the same code, and let the user choose. I did that once, in 02:35:05 but of course not if that's befunge 02:35:21 some java and c# will survive 02:35:37 in https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=863110 02:38:02 I'm tempted to make the full circle script that would compress arbitrary text as JPEG and then decode back 02:41:07 oh and you can fit 3 times mode code on image space using RGB 02:41:08 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87242&oldid=87241 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+591) 02:41:32 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87243&oldid=87242 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+11) /* \ELLOWOS */ 02:43:41 you could fold each 3 lines of source code into one image line 02:44:54 [[User:GermanSpetsnaz]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87244 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+183) Created page with "GermanSpetsnaz, also known as Christopher Strickland, is the creator of [[\ELLOWOS]] and started editing on esolangs on 14/8/2021, which also is the day that [[\ELLOWOS]] was..." 02:45:42 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87245&oldid=87243 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+26) 02:45:46 and to avoid the phase choice randomness you can do not just slicing but transforming the N chars long line into 3 N/3 chars long lines 02:46:33 so the image will become 3 times narrower and every consecutive 3 lines of code will blend 02:47:17 the first line of resulting image will be red, the last one blue 02:48:09 damn 02:48:18 how to stop starting making things 02:48:31 [[Cammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87246&oldid=87237 * Corbin * (+1738) Accidentally saved changes too soon. Still getting started. 02:49:01 I have yet to finish previous ones... 02:52:05 I just wanted a small break during the making of RASEL IDE so I launched a game and just hours after I started decided to draw a "crafting recipes graph", so to parse the game files I had to figure out the format so I made the schema-validation library... 02:53:15 ... and the damn random idea of direct converting of the source code to NETPBM now wants me to research how much JPEG or WebP compression I can achieve keeping the text readable 03:02:54 btw, could not really make the bash snippet of "expanding line length to 80" fully work -- it was eating the slashes in $line 03:03:22 also I won't wonder if that befunge code passed through bash can format the drive 03:03:34 *won't be surprised 03:03:38 gotta go sleep 03:13:37 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:21:15 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87247&oldid=87230 * VitalMixofNutrients * (+439) /* Introductions */ 03:22:07 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87248&oldid=87247 * VitalMixofNutrients * (-13) /* Introductions */ 03:22:40 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87249&oldid=87248 * VitalMixofNutrients * (+0) /* Introductions */ 03:33:02 Ah, excellent. 04:15:56 -!- ZippyMagician has joined. 04:18:11 -!- ZippyMagician has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:37:14 [[Jelly]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87250&oldid=75879 * Corbin * (+227) Add proglang infobox. 04:41:03 Is there a definition for https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Functional_paradigm? (I am okay with the traditional answer: "No, and asking is flamebait.") 04:51:10 . o O ( It's the opposite of dysfunctional. ) 04:54:43 I guess it's the usual thing where the page authors decide whether a language is functional and it'll only be corrected if somebody else feels it's grossly miscategorized. Personally, I'd expect something that behaves like a function as a first-class citizen (value)... with stupid corner cases (first-order term rewriting is not functional; lambda calculus is functional; combinatory logic is a... 04:54:49 ...first-order TRS which has the whole power of the lambda calculus, ugh.) 04:56:08 I have an opinion on CL, which is that it really doesn't feel like a functional programming language. 04:56:31 Mainly because it's pointless. 04:56:36 Sure. "lambda calculus is functional" might be the horn I have to tackle this time around. Lambda calculi are the internal logics of Cartesian closed categories. Are the arrows of categories always functions? No, but how dishonest is it to pretend? 04:57:07 Nonono, it's all about Scott domains. 04:57:51 They're usually either functions with extra properties/structure/stuff, or they're functors/transfors/etc. which have extra dimensions which we're truncating away. 04:58:28 Anyway, unpacking what you said, I'd say it's okay to pretend. 04:58:42 Otherwise you'll reach the point where nothing is functional. 04:59:01 Since it's just bits in a computer, 99% of the time. 04:59:37 I mean, I *do* take that position seriously in #proglangdesign and elsewhere: "functional programming" is a tribal identifier, not a classification scheme for languages. 05:00:01 But I'm interested in specifically what "the functional paradigm" means on the wiki, because I want to know whether my tacit language is functional. 05:00:24 Meh. I tend to take the view that in practice these things aren't black or white. 05:00:51 Almsot every programming language has lambda these days so they're all a bit functional. It usually isn't the main programming paradigm. 05:03:12 What *is* a programming paradigm, anyway? WP says that it *is* about classifying languages, but I don't know. 05:05:21 It's mostly about how you break a program down into more manageable bits, isn't it? 05:09:32 I don't know; I'm pleading ignorance. It looks like there's no category on the wiki for tacit programming languages, anyway, so it doesn't matter. 05:10:02 You shoehorn your program into an OO language by trying to find ways to exploit classes and inheritance; you do it for FP by finding opportunities for composing or lifting functions... and you'll invent ways to do each of these in any paradigm because it's often dictated by the problem rather than the language. 05:10:07 * int-e shrugs 05:10:19 I haven't studied any of this... 05:11:15 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87251&oldid=87229 * CosmicMan08 * (+10) 05:12:26 [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87252&oldid=86742 * Ch44d * (-3221) rework 05:29:47 I don't know how it counts either; many programming languages have first-class functions, including JavaScript (for example "(x=>x)" is a identity function), and some have other stuff too but some don't. C has function pointers which is not really the same thing (although GCC also has "trampoline functions"); PostScript procedures are arrays so can be used like other values, etc 05:32:29 Also can be the consideration for object-oriented. For example, in C there is the FILE object, and in GNU C you can use the fopencookie function to make your own implementation of that interface. 05:35:54 And then, there is the case where some programming language will not have such things as built-in features but can be implemented by macros and/or by other things within that programming language. 05:44:40 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:27:46 I have some knowledge of how to encode objects in Haskell. The short version is “records whose fields have a shared closure”, with the delightful tidbit `new = mfix` if you want to encode inheritance. 06:30:38 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 06:31:02 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:31:52 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 06:33:51 Melvar: How does that work, new $ \this -> O{ method = \x y -> } ...? 06:34:14 err, I'm missing a `pure` there. 06:35:34 :t Control.Monad.mfix 06:35:35 error: 06:35:35 Not in scope: ‘Control.Monad.mfix’ 06:35:35 Perhaps you meant one of these: 06:35:53 :t Control.Monad.Fix.mfix 06:35:54 MonadFix m => (a -> m a) -> m a 06:36:04 (oops, evidently I don't use this very often) 06:37:21 I /have/ used mfix though, for EDSLs with labels. 06:43:00 Yes, pretty much that. If the construction of your object is pure, you can do it with `fix` or explicit corecursion, but if for example your object uses an IORef internally you need `mfix` (or the non-overloaded `fixIO` in case of IO). 06:43:42 Melvar: Right, makes sense. It's just that 'new = mfix' doesn't really explain much about the mental model behind it :) 06:43:57 Hence the question. 06:46:39 So like, you can write an object construction function `foo :: someargs -> Foo -> IO Foo` and instantiate it with `mfix foo`. If you want to extend it, the fact that `foo` hasn’t yet taken itself is important – related to the concept of “open recursion”, which is used to describe the dispatch semantics of “this”. 06:48:11 oh yeah, I missed that the reader monad would interact with this nicely 06:48:14 Because now you can go `derivedFoo :: someargs -> Foo -> IO Foo; derivedFoo args this = do super <- foo this; otherconstruction; pure $ Foo { } 06:48:38 though, hmm, maybe not quite nicely enough. it should :P 06:48:44 (it's not a transformer by default) 06:49:20 Crucially, this causes `this`-calls in `foo` to refer to the fields generated in `derivedFoo`. 06:49:43 I think to define functional programming languages, you should consider SKI (or BCKW, doesn't really matter) combinator calculus and lambda calculus, because these only have functions, so you have to build everything from functions 06:51:05 The thing is, I basically can't program CL at all. I have a workaround which is to program lambda calculus and then do abstraction elimination. 06:51:24 So... this is how I mentally justify calling CL not functional. 06:51:50 there's also multivariate versions of these: multivariate (untyped) lambda calculus, and Madore's Amicus without rules 2 and 4 06:52:12 But there's nothing objective about it; the most objective angle is that first-order rewriting isn't functional. :P 06:52:29 And obviously you can argue about that one as well. 06:52:58 If you want, you can turn my argument upside down; since CL (in that view) is functional, that means first-order TRSs can be functional. 06:53:01 *shrugs* 06:54:44 * int-e shrugs. <-- Help! I'm forgetting how to IRC. 06:58:28 -!- Cale has joined. 07:02:33 (I also want the Consumer society language to be a quintessential language, but I don't think it counts as functional) 08:05:44 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:18 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:22:37 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:22:58 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 09:28:30 [[User:FLeckami21]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87253&oldid=76316 * FLeckami21 * (+21) Added a new language 09:31:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:34:40 -!- hanif has joined. 09:36:26 ' But I'm interested in specifically what "the functional paradigm" means on the wiki, because I want to know whether my tacit language is functional.' => [[Jelly]] on the eso-wiki is a tacit proglang and has [[Category:Functional paradigm]] 09:36:57 a data point 09:46:12 does your language has a mutable state? 09:51:54 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:53:57 not my language, but i'd have to check its docs 09:54:56 (which are at https://github.com/DennisMitchell/jellylanguage/wiki) looks like there is a register that can be copied to and retrieaved (under 'Quicks') 09:57:07 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * R-Prime * New user account 09:59:37 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87254&oldid=87249 * R-Prime * (+187) /* Introductions */ 10:02:23 [[User:Grom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87255&oldid=81610 * Grom * (+73) 10:35:26 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:46:02 nakilon: i feel like you might enjoy this https://twitter.com/keenanisalive/status/1426510525555515397 11:02:38 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:03:03 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 11:36:53 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:52:01 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:15:58 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:27:37 the last myname's message makes the most sense for me defining the functional 12:29:05 I say that "I wrote this in a functional way" when I don't use any assignment operator and just no nested and chained stdlib methods calls 12:29:17 *do 12:53:00 river never really did that but I would go for smth like ( max(0,(width1+width2)/2-(center_dist_x) ) * ( the same but for y ) ) 12:54:32 I did physic simulation of a soft bodies falling and rolling on Athlon 1700, it was slow 13:09:10 -!- hanif has joined. 13:40:10 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:40:36 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:44:45 myname, nakilon: The language is [[Cammy]] and it has no mutable state. 13:44:58 hanif: I'm just not sure whether a language is "functional" if its arrows are not, strictly speaking, functions. 13:49:14 [[Sokolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87256&oldid=87225 * FLeckami21 * (+2357) 13:53:18 [[Sokolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87257&oldid=87256 * FLeckami21 * (+4) 14:00:30 Corbin: is this category theory? 'arrows' 14:06:38 hanif: You bet it's category theory! A topos is a sort of category, and so if we pick a different topos then we get a different interpretation of the arrows. 14:09:25 time to do some reading then 14:34:45 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:39:40 Hm, is https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization#Dimensions for the dimensions of syntax or the dimensions of memory space? I see at least one "multi-dimensional" language whose syntax is 1D but operates on a 4D spatial memory. 14:46:09 cammy is lacking a fix point operator 14:47:17 [[Cammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87258&oldid=87246 * Corbin * (+116) Add proglang infobox. Clean up WP links. 14:48:09 myname: Yeah. That's intentional; I can't really undo that level of power once it's been added. My current plan, instead, is to add one (1) unbounded loop around an entire program, but require each Cammy expression to be total and terminating. 14:49:02 what does a loop help if you have no mutable state? 14:49:46 Loops can make progress with immutable state. 14:50:29 Have you seen https://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/paradigmsDIAGRAMeng101.pdf before? The goal is to carefully move from "functional programming" to "event-loop programming". And then, maybe, to reimplement the Monte language in terms of Cammy. Big long-term goal there, of course. 14:59:28 [[Cammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87259&oldid=87258 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+69) /* External Resources */ Cats 15:01:03 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87260&oldid=87233 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* C */ Cammy 15:07:14 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87261&oldid=87245 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+71) Cats 15:08:48 [[Talk:\ELLOWOS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87262 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+308) /* Duplicate command */ new section 15:13:00 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:21:53 cool graph 15:22:03 funny that "continuation" line does not continue 15:40:17 [[Cammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87263&oldid=87259 * Corbin * (+384) /* Syntax */ Explain the type system a bit more, and give more examples. 15:48:15 "require each Cammy expression to be total and terminating" => that never goes well 15:48:30 it makes your programs hard to debug if they can't easily give an error 15:55:46 b_jonas: There's a tradition of event-loop systems where the event loop is ambient. In these systems, having an iteration of the loop (a so-called "turn") not terminate is kind of annoying. This is probably one of the biggest warts in classic E. 16:03:07 Corbin: that makes sense, but sometimes you want to deliberately diverge, when you detect an error 16:05:15 b_jonas: I don't want E or Monte programs to ever diverge, TBH. If there's a fault, then I want it printed out and I would also like the process to crash. Because E is oriented around networking, and networking faults are tricky to manage, we don't want the additional complication of sync errors being messy too. 16:09:33 Corbin: if it can print an error message then crash, that's fine, then you just mean something different by "total" than I thought 16:09:53 is the program allowed to grow a list to double its length in each loop iteration? 16:10:23 and is it allowed to grow a list to two to the power of the original list length in each iteration? 16:11:52 Oh, yes, the complexity class PR is ridiculous, for sure. I mean both that a single expression isn't Turing-complete and also that errors are handled with sum types rather than exceptional conditions. 16:12:18 Corbin: so it can crash only at the end of a loop iteraton, not in any expression? 16:12:23 The expression (comp dup apply) is a standard Turing bird, but is rejected during type-checking as having an infinite type. 16:12:51 what is comp? 16:13:01 oh, you mean compose functions 16:13:54 comp is composition, dup is the diagonal functor, app (not "apply", whoops) is evaluation of internal homs. It takes a value x, duplicates it to make a pair (x,x), and then calls x(x) on itself. 16:18:03 As for taking too long in practical situations, yes; the current toolchain has no jets for natural numbers at all, so asking it to add 1_000_000 to 1_000_000 takes a little bit of time. 16:18:53 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:19:26 But yeah, as stupid as it sounds, the slogan "well-typed programs don't go wrong" is basically what I'm going for. My version is "categorical expressions don't leave the category". If the category includes error objects, then it's not a problem. 16:20:02 And it happens to be the case that Pfn, whose arrows are partial functions, is equivalent to Set*, whose objects are inhabited sets and arrows are functions which can fail and return nothing. 16:27:21 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87264&oldid=87260 * FLeckami21 * (+33) 16:29:39 [[Cammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87265&oldid=87263 * Corbin * (+1439) Add a section explaining the semantics in terms of lambda calculus. 16:55:44 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87266&oldid=84913 * Corbin * (+664) /* Tacit programming */ new section 16:56:55 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:08:55 -!- hanif has joined. 17:13:23 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:24:48 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Red hot dogs--- * New user account 17:33:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:45:27 In regards to the link https://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/paradigmsDIAGRAMeng101.pdf from a page up: Since I only know STM in Haskell, does anyone know how it is made to work in languages with unrestricted side effects? 17:54:33 -!- op_4 has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in). 17:54:53 -!- op_4 has joined. 17:56:47 -!- op_4 has quit (Client Quit). 17:57:27 -!- op_4 has joined. 18:04:24 -!- hanif has joined. 18:10:02 [[List of complexity classes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87267&oldid=45211 * Corbin * (+2466) Unstub, put in several sections corresponding to categories, try to clarify WP's immense wordy denseness. 18:30:06 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:31:55 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:47:38 -!- hanif has joined. 19:30:16 -!- imode has joined. 20:25:35 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:50:56 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 20:54:50 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:02:29 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:06:45 -!- Cale has joined. 22:30:26 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:06:07 [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87268&oldid=84207 * Sporeball * (-1) remove last abcout pointer star 23:08:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:18:52 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:28:20 Mainly because it's pointless. <-- * swats int-e -----### 23:48:09 [[Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87269 * LarhoCherqi * (+1659) Created page with "'''Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It''' is an esolang created by [[User:LarhoCherqi]], with other names being WDTTSDETIUI or Towellang. WDTTSDSETIUI's dat..." 23:52:08 [[WDTTSDETIUI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87270 * LarhoCherqi * (+68) Redirected page to [[Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It]] 23:52:47 [[Towellang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87271 * LarhoCherqi * (+68) Redirected page to [[Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It]] 23:53:19 [[Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87272&oldid=87269 * LarhoCherqi * (+2) 23:59:59 -!- river has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 2021-08-16: 00:03:19 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:14:12 why does Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It not involve towels? 00:16:07 i guess the author lost them. not a very hoopy frood if you ask me. 00:20:38 threw it away after they never washed it 00:20:48 it got too smelly 00:24:03 that's almost like b_jonas fixes teapots ..) 00:25:26 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:25:40 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 00:30:16 I will not buy this fungot, it is scratched 00:30:16 b_jonas: brainsecks interpreter works :d. sorry. :( i know many people on scheme are you using 00:41:58 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87273&oldid=87251 * CosmicMan08 * (-8) 00:46:18 [[GridJSON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87274&oldid=84895 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* Commands */ Cat 00:46:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:49:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 00:49:52 [[Typeform]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87275&oldid=83933 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+8) WIP 01:12:52 [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87276&oldid=87086 * Zzo38 * (+2396) ZZT/MegaZeux 01:33:55 -!- dutch has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1). 01:36:46 oerjan: come on, pointless jokes are tame 01:38:32 oerjan: There's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointless_topology and it's not! a redirect. 01:38:42 oerjan: Which is in the same spirit. 01:40:52 it is however horrible grammar :( 01:42:27 Really? 01:42:38 the article introduction, that is. 01:43:02 oh, yes. 01:43:43 seems like it was expanded recently 01:44:32 * oerjan edits 01:49:44 done 01:50:47 ...them frames... 01:51:09 * int-e ducks. 01:51:46 * oerjan remains oblivious. 01:53:59 mind you, it's still not _well_ written. but i'm lazy and i don't know the subject. 01:55:50 oerjan: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/themframes.png <-- this one is totally worthy of a swat, btw, so let's call it even 01:57:18 So even a category skeptic would presumably acknowledge the following: 01:57:41 Even though every complete semilattice is a complete lattice, a free complete semilattice is a very different thing from a free complete lattice. 01:57:56 [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87277&oldid=87252 * Ch44d * (+8945) add some rules 01:58:57 that's just how freedom works 01:59:37 Right. 02:02:19 That framing though... are you suggesting that nothing is free without category theory? ;-) 02:04:11 No, just that this has a bit of a categorical flavor. 02:04:48 Then again, maybe I shouldn't complain about framing after that "them frames" thing. 02:05:03 * int-e switches out the shovel for an excavator. 02:05:10 Should people even talk about frames? 02:05:13 I thought locales are where it's at. 02:05:26 Kripke talked a lot about frames. 02:06:19 Frames were also a good way to crash browsers... I wonder whether that's still the case. 02:07:00 And FWIW, I'd rather have a window with frame than without. 02:07:18 (Both physically and on a computer.) 02:07:31 ...tThere's really a lot of things that are called frames... 02:07:49 I do think the categorical definition of "free" is pretty good. 02:08:13 I don't even know what other definition people use. I guess just one that works for algebraic structures? 02:08:31 But then what did I learn the Knaster-Tarski fixed point theorem for? 02:13:50 * oerjan still has no idea about what's wrong with "them frames" 02:14:36 is it some meme i haven't caught 02:15:25 oerjan: them frames have been naughty 02:16:12 maybe it's just my own brain that chuckles at "them frames" without context. it happens. a lot. 02:17:06 OKAY 02:18:09 In context, it's perfectly fine. There's even punctuation that makes all this inapplicable. 02:18:52 Hmm. Not sure "punctuation" is the right word to use for quotes. 02:41:56 wow, found someone who edits Wikipedia 02:42:09 i edit wikipedia 02:42:10 on occasion 02:42:45 nice 02:43:07 I used to live at a house named Pointless Topology 02:43:15 in fact it had an IRC channel on Freenode (RIP) 02:43:33 and there was a bot in the IRC channel that would control the color of the LED lights in the living room 02:43:47 house with a name? 02:44:41 yes, it's pretty common in American nerd culture for group houses (with several housemates who are not related living together) to have a name 02:45:04 Who wouldn't want to live inside Pointless Topology 02:45:15 Where you can blend in with the crowd perfectly. 02:47:52 it's like something from a movie 02:48:45 in Russia you probably won't even meet any group of nerds ever in your life 02:55:14 *most likely 02:57:02 don't they have technical schools and internet companies and hackerspaces in russia? 02:57:13 that's how these groups of nerds meet each other 02:57:15 and online of course 02:59:15 and san francisco is not exactly affordable, even on a tech salary (especially if you're early in your career) 02:59:17 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87278&oldid=87215 * KakkoiiChris * (-158) /* System Arg (\<) */ Fixed typo 02:59:32 so you can get a small apartment by yourself, or you can rent a big house with some friends and have a nice common area and maybe even a backyard 03:00:39 and a lot of people prefer to live with people 03:01:24 some of them are just housing, some are more like live-in hackerspaces or event spaces or communes 03:01:40 keegan the only such community I'm aware about is very small one with old guys who do demoscenes for 8 bit computers 03:01:48 fun 03:02:13 maybe there are some in rare universities like MSU, just a theory 03:02:46 it may be less common in the former USSR because the soviet union built a ton of apartment housing 03:03:02 the USA thinks everyone should live in a single family detached home with a yard 03:03:07 even in san francisco most of the city is not zoned for apartments 03:03:20 but obviously single people who can't afford a whole house want to live here, so they split a house 03:03:30 basically people gather or rent a house collectively only if they are drug addicts ..D 03:03:34 hehe 03:04:39 yeah some people in SF even live hostel-style with multiple bunk beds in a single room 03:04:47 the house/amartment is just a matter of town size -- the apartments appear only if the town is big enough, it's never a majority of homes 03:05:03 maybe the difference is that we didn't have hippies 03:05:11 heh 03:06:41 single houses are basically never shared -- they are the family thing, inherited all at once 03:07:13 the professional class in the USA (including programmers) tends to move far away from where they grew up for school and work 03:07:19 so inheriting a house is not necessarily an option 03:07:43 there are hostels with bunk beds but only in Moscow and such -- for immigrants from poor countries who work here cleaning streets 03:09:04 yeah here it's like... immigrants from middle america who are trying to get lucky in the startup game 03:14:25 speaking about "IRC controlled LED lights", in the biggest and nerdiest (except of probably Kaspersky) company Yandex no one used or even knew what is IRC -- there was one internal server that no one used; we were using some different chat platform and it was awful, so previous admin gave me the server and I tried to drag my coworkers there; set up 03:14:25 Jenkins notification, reports, etc., but they didn't use it ..D 03:15:40 there was no such thing as "build platform with notifications" at all at that time AFAIK, it was before Slack, and people knew only a few ways to chat -- ICQ, Skype and rarely Jabber; and no one automated them 03:17:06 basically we only used email and "go to his working place and ask him directly" 03:17:41 at least in my department 03:19:47 for most of Russian IT companies it's only when Slack and such appeared and started pushing advertisment of their features they discovered such things as automated notifications and bots at all 03:21:37 not even saying about making such automations, only installing some IFFFT integrations or existing plugins, heh 03:22:14 if you automate anything you before a "nerd" within an IT company 03:22:23 anyway, time for breakfast 03:22:29 *you become 03:22:53 i have a hard time understanding the idea that being a nerd would be looked down upon within an IT company 03:23:12 at least among the developers 03:30:10 at all jobs I had there was only once a guy that is kind of nerd, at least he's into Haskell -- learning things that you wasn't told to learn is basically a shame here 03:30:39 his job is Python but he codes Haskell at home and does not talk to anyone about that 03:30:49 to not be ashamed 03:30:51 ..D 03:33:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:37:11 also the thing about dinners 03:38:53 at one job our boss on purpose tried to initiate some coding-related topics during the dinner meetings; elsewhere you are supposed to only talk about sort championships and how you'll rest from the job on a vacation 03:41:08 so at the dinner you talk trash, at the office you talk only about the current tickets in Jira, and there is no time to talk about programming other than that -- after 18:00 people hurry to get home and don't wanna listen about code "because tired, don't wanna think" 03:46:01 that's sad 03:46:15 it's sad that learning things you don't immediately need is stigmatized 03:46:22 although i think work life separation is healthy 03:46:49 and i don't think one needs to be a programming obsessive like i used to be to be a good programmer at work 03:46:52 in fact it may detract 03:47:04 because i was always sad that the things i was asked to do at work were not as interesting 03:47:11 and that i couldn't use the coolest language or whatever 03:48:25 now that i've been unemployed for years I'm slowly regaining the ability to enjoy programming in my free time 03:48:26 idk, at that job others were asking haskell guy how to write in python because he was the one who wasn't lazy to learn things about its better practices, new features, etc. 03:49:36 and you can't learn new things by just doing jira tickets 03:50:49 how do you survive being unemployed? 03:51:05 my wife works at google 03:51:16 I'm without job for a year and did a mistake to gave a part of my money and no I'm in debts, it sucks 03:51:23 *now 03:51:56 that sucks 03:53:06 we are having a kid soon and i will be a full time mom 03:53:17 which of course doesn't pay anything but does save a lot of money in childcare costs etc 03:53:24 and probably has other benefits to the child 04:39:07 debian hype 04:42:38 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (*.net *.split). 04:42:38 -!- Cale has quit (*.net *.split). 04:42:38 -!- Noisytoot has quit (*.net *.split). 04:42:38 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (*.net *.split). 04:42:39 -!- nakilon has quit 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~jix@user/jix. 04:55:46 -!- Trieste has joined. 04:55:52 -!- iovoid has joined. 04:55:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:16:13 -!- craigoverend[m] has joined. 05:18:24 -!- daggy1234[m] has joined. 05:28:43 -!- fizzie[m] has joined. 06:17:02 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:29:16 -!- Deewiant has joined. 06:39:55 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87279&oldid=87261 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+0) 07:02:34 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:03:18 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 07:03:40 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87280&oldid=87279 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+86) /* Hello World */ 07:03:48 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:05:00 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87281&oldid=87280 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+78) /* \ELLOWOS */ 07:07:33 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87282&oldid=87281 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+38) 07:09:14 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87283&oldid=87282 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+4) 07:11:18 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87284&oldid=87254 * Red hot dogs--- * (+219) 07:13:31 [[Pyfun]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87285 * Red hot dogs--- * (+5341) Created page with "Pyfun is a programming language in which only the following five characters are allowed a [ ] + < Pyfun is designed such that it can be easily converted into python. To co..." 07:15:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:17:16 -!- jryans has joined. 07:29:15 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87286&oldid=87283 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+231) 07:30:06 [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87287&oldid=87285 * Red hot dogs--- * (+204) 07:30:09 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:31:43 [[Pyfun]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87288&oldid=87287 * Red hot dogs--- * (+2) 07:34:06 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87289&oldid=87286 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+0) 07:37:53 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 07:39:25 [[Talk:\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87290&oldid=87262 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+147) /* Duplicate command */ 07:39:51 [[Talk:\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87291&oldid=87290 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-1) /* Duplicate command */ 07:48:10 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:54:57 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 08:05:51 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:06:14 -!- riv has joined. 08:08:46 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:27:09 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87292&oldid=87289 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+81) 08:27:57 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87293&oldid=87292 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+18) 09:05:37 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87294&oldid=87293 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+170) /* Programs */ 09:06:16 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87295&oldid=87294 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-52) /* User Input */ 09:06:57 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87296&oldid=87295 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+52) /* No User Input */ 09:10:57 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87297&oldid=87296 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+91) /* Fibonacci Sequence */ 09:36:23 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 09:37:07 -!- iovoid has joined. 09:44:52 [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87298&oldid=87277 * Ch44d * (+26565) add the other rules 09:49:49 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87299&oldid=87264 * Ch44d * (+16) add backrooms 10:36:16 [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87300&oldid=87288 * Red hot dogs--- * (-164) 10:44:35 [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87301&oldid=87300 * Red hot dogs--- * (+194) 10:50:59 -!- fizzie[m] has quit (Quit: You have been idle for 30+ days). 11:55:19 fungot, how many different prizes are there that are considered "the Nobel prize of mathematics"? 11:55:19 b_jonas: if common-lisp.net starts accepting requests from all and sundry here?) form is a procedure 12:59:10 -!- archenoth has joined. 13:18:56 -!- Corbin has joined. 13:25:01 [[Pyfun]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87302&oldid=87301 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+94) Cats 13:35:02 [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87303&oldid=87298 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) Lower 13:39:01 [[Math&Matrix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87304&oldid=76377 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Matrix form */ cat 14:03:19 -!- ^[ has joined. 14:23:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:25:16 -!- delta23 has joined. 14:25:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Quittin'.). 14:25:52 -!- zgrep has quit (Quit: It's a quitter's world.). 14:27:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:27:20 -!- zgrep has joined. 14:28:12 -!- shikhin has changed hostmask to ~shikhin@offtopia/offtopian. 14:38:22 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:43:15 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 16:12:10 [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87305&oldid=87302 * Red hot dogs--- * (+296) 16:47:41 -!- imode has joined. 17:02:42 [[Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87306&oldid=86508 * Sanscicondos * (+88) Added Categories 17:03:31 [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87307&oldid=87306 * Sanscicondos * (+0) minor spelling change 17:05:20 -!- hanif has joined. 17:15:09 [[Talk:Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87308&oldid=86186 * Sanscicondos * (+598) Added - Dedicated Program Creation Modes 17:16:57 [[Talk:Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87309&oldid=87308 * Sanscicondos * (+181) signatureee 17:19:09 -!- riv has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:19:38 [[Talk:Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87310&oldid=87309 * Sanscicondos * (+2) Updated Version - 1.3.5a 17:19:46 -!- riv has joined. 17:36:20 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87311&oldid=87284 * Daggy1234 * (+253) /* Introductions */ 17:36:29 [[Udymts]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87312 * Daggy1234 * (+1526) Enhance your python with this wonderful esolang that ceaser chiper's your code.l 17:39:58 [[Udymts]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87313&oldid=87312 * Daggy1234 * (+102) added commands 17:55:37 -!- KeziahMason has changed nick to awk. 18:07:20 [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87314&oldid=87303 * Ch44d * (-93) remove random r 18:19:52 -!- awk has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 18:30:06 > What if they just do the thing similar to how you can change the skin color of emojis but instead of skin color it's Islamic republic or Islamic emirate 18:30:08 :1:77: error: parse error on input ‘of’ 18:30:17 great idea, this would work with taipei and other controversials as well 19:23:35 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:36:36 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 19:37:04 -!- hendursaga has joined. 19:53:26 is currency a compressible fluid? is it non-newtonian? 19:57:24 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87315&oldid=87297 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+22) 20:01:09 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87316&oldid=87315 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+91) /* Memory */ 20:28:15 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87317&oldid=87316 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-60) /* User Input */ 20:30:17 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87318&oldid=87317 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-261) /* No User Input */ 20:31:01 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87319&oldid=87318 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-317) /* No User Input */ 20:31:24 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87320&oldid=87319 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-72) /* Hello World */ 20:32:00 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87321&oldid=87320 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+4) /* Hello World */ 20:32:16 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87322&oldid=87321 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-265) /* Hello World */ 20:32:30 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87323&oldid=87322 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+265) /* Programs */ 20:32:54 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87324&oldid=87323 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+1) /* Programs */ 20:38:28 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87325&oldid=87324 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+124) /* Programs */ 20:43:43 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87326&oldid=87325 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-4) /* Fibonacci Sequence */ 20:43:44 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 20:48:14 -!- archenoth has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:50:08 https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4226074/barriers-membranes-in-conways-game-of-life 20:50:11 that's an interesting question 20:50:51 my guess is no.. everything in GOL is 'flammable' 20:56:07 the answer is no, not at least not last I checked a couple years ago 20:56:31 cgol is just, as you said, very reactive. 20:58:44 -!- archenoth has joined. 21:03:26 -!- mnrmnaugh has changed nick to mnr. 21:05:24 yeah it would need some kind of self repair capability 21:05:28 and would probably be quite large 21:05:45 but that should be doable in principle due to universality 21:06:46 of course you can also simulate another CA in GoL which is like GoL except for allowing some cells to be designated immutable 21:06:55 but that's different 21:06:56 im not sure what universality implies that 21:07:15 yeah you could do that 21:08:17 hm what if it's just gliders you need to deal with. I think it's still probably impossible because they could come at any time and any place 21:09:12 I'm not sure that really helps - unless the universal machine can detect damage to its borders, which brings up another long-open question, basically whether it's possible to scan a still-life 21:10:03 hmm 21:10:07 without disrupting it you mean? 21:10:11 it *should* be possible to make a machine that can protect against solo gliders at a sufficiently slow speed 21:10:16 yeah 21:13:56 https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Problem is an incomplete list of problems. I don't see anything exactly like this one, but I do recall some discussion of it 21:40:12 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87327&oldid=87326 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+161) /* Programs */ 21:46:04 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87328&oldid=87327 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+383) 21:46:43 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87329&oldid=87328 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-1) /* Overview */ 21:47:08 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87330&oldid=87329 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-2) /* Overview */ 21:47:46 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87331&oldid=87330 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+1) /* Overview */ 21:50:52 [[Sokolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87332&oldid=87257 * FLeckami21 * (+308) 21:55:23 [[User:FLeckami21]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87333&oldid=87253 * FLeckami21 * (-6) removed WIP 21:57:08 [[Sokolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87334&oldid=87332 * FLeckami21 * (+67) add categories 22:02:39 [[Sokolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87335&oldid=87334 * FLeckami21 * (+2) 22:06:39 [[User talk:Kefalonia]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87336 * Kefalonia * (+0) Created blank page 22:10:50 [[User talk:Apollyon094]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87337&oldid=69845 * Kefalonia * (+142) SBNs... 22:51:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:55:25 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TJollans * New user account 23:21:45 if I have n mostly independent changes to a code, and I suspect there's a bug that comes up when two specific ones are both merged, while the other n-2 are irrelevant, but I don't know which two, then what's a practical fast way to bisect which two those are assuming I can test any combination? 23:31:16 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87338&oldid=87311 * TJollans * (+198) /* Introductions */ 23:53:12 b_jonas: i think you can just put them in an arbitrary order, bisect as usual to find the last relevant one, then keep that fixed and bisect the others 23:54:09 *the others previous to it 23:55:11 and i suspect that's pretty close to optimal too, given you need log(n*(n-1)/2) bits to tell which two it is 2021-08-17: 00:01:12 hm xkcd updated earlier than usual lately 00:08:08 oerjan: yeah, probably 00:08:15 you're right 00:16:36 -!- sprock has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:16:49 -!- sprock has joined. 00:30:17 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:52:48 `recipe 00:52:50 hicken and \ remaining 1/4 cup of chopped celery and cornstarch. Stir in \ and remaining honey. Repeat with chopped fresh lettuce; \ cheese mixture over baking sheet. Season together and stir meat into egg salt. \ Add the shapes of flour with the corner and sugar in a large \ pan. Serve with peanut oil and almonds. Pour the cake on a bowl, stirring \ occasionally and remove from heat; cook over moderate heat, stirring constantly, \ until the meat is 00:53:52 serve first, then cook again? interesting, recycling food to serve it twice 01:06:14 -!- BusyBeaver42 has joined. 01:17:07 Hi, long time no chat, I'm one of the guys working on the Magic the Gathering most damage without going infinite deck, we are currently implementing the waterfall model (https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model) 01:17:39 Today we found an infinite that ruins a lot of progress 01:18:03 I would take out the edits one by one until the issue is gone 01:18:12 so I found one 01:18:27 then I put it back and take out from the other side 01:18:28 It would be fixed however if the 'flooding' variant of the waterclocks were Turing Complete 01:18:35 until I find another one 01:19:11 so it's two bisections 01:19:56 where flooding clocks instead of adding their row once when they are triggered, add it X times where X is the number of times the clock was incremented 01:20:01 nakilon: that's not bisection if you do it "one by one" 01:20:09 oerjan, yeah 01:20:23 imagine I said bisect in the first message ) 01:20:29 just doing it from one side, then from another 01:20:29 OKAY 01:21:29 . o O ( But n+1 = n + 1 is splitting n+1 into two parts. ) 01:22:24 oh hi BusyBeaver42 01:22:41 This cause the clocks to explode in value and behave apparently erratically. 01:23:02 hi b_jonas 01:23:51 BusyBeaver42: did you return because of https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=5661 Striking new Beeping Busy Beaver champion, or is this an unrelated renewal of interest? 01:23:51 [[DDR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87339&oldid=65332 * DoggyDogWhirl * (+41) Fixed order of arrows 01:23:55 [[DDR/Python Implementation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87340&oldid=63978 * DoggyDogWhirl * (+60) 01:24:47 [[DDR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87341&oldid=87339 * DoggyDogWhirl * (+0) 01:25:00 I returned because its now very relevent whether or not the flooding version is TC 01:25:59 we missed a way to set dralnu's crusades up to allow us to halt an infinite computation at an arbitrary point 01:26:06 ais523 needs some pinging for this. 01:26:40 yeah, he'll probably appear within a day 01:26:50 though I think he already thought about that 01:27:19 so we'd need to either only do one BB computation, or cut dralnu's crusade 01:27:51 cutting the crudase makes us the 'flooding' version and we dont know if it is TC 01:28:00 crusade* 01:29:36 I admit don't really understand how the waterfall model comes into this 01:33:01 we set up Xathrid Necromancers according to the waterfall model matrix, Coat of arms keeps the tokens the right size while 2x arcbond keep triggering each other until the computation halts 01:34:07 Dralnu's crusade lets each clock have a triggering creature type that activates the necromancers 01:34:42 so that they dont trigger on each creature dying, just the one 01:34:47 yes, but I can't recall what made that never go infinite. was it a trick with M:tG's infinity rule that makes some infinite loops a draw before you start them? 01:34:55 yeah 01:35:17 unbreakable infinite loops are instant draws 01:35:40 yes, but that would normally still let you deal an unbounded amount of damage depending on the play you choose 01:36:09 which is why the deck is set up that we can't break out of a computation 01:36:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:36:35 so if the computation never halts, we can't damage them 01:36:43 yes, but before you set up the loop 01:37:09 can't you set up a loop that will eventually deal an arbitrarily large amount of damage, more than any natural number that I choose? 01:37:49 nope, as computation is bounded by the busy beaver function 01:38:04 I think we had this discussion and I'll just have to go back in the channel logs to find it 01:38:34 oh, is the argument to the busy beaver (of some variant) the number of basic cards you have in the deck or something like that? 01:39:03 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:39:04 like you have to sacrifice a Plains every time you add a state to your machine, and you can't get any other than by drawing them from your deck? 01:39:05 yeah the size of the computation is limited by other resources 01:39:50 or an Island. it's always an Island. nobody would mind sacrificing Plains. 01:40:23 (Arcane Spyglass is a card I love, though it's not really useful for this kind of deck) 01:40:41 We are a bit more efficient than that and can get BB(5->5->5->5->5) or 01:40:47 or so 01:41:00 yeah, so not just the argument to the BB function, but eventually the argument of some fast-growing function 01:41:18 yeah its not BB(infinity) 01:43:38 before the infinite was found we were thinking we could then do more computation, building off of the output from that 01:44:15 and actually do quite a lot of computations actually 01:45:34 but now we either have to switch to the flooding version, or only get the one BB iteration 01:50:16 so we really would like the flooding version to be TC 01:52:04 (Technically we could get away with a bit less than TC, but that's splitting hairs) 01:53:21 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87342&oldid=87105 * Ais523 * (-31752) clear Sandbox 01:54:47 -!- delta23 has joined. 02:22:52 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:30:42 [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87343&oldid=87314 * Razetime * (+4) spelling corrections 02:38:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:55:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:56:11 BusyBeaver42: I'm here, but I still don't have much of an idea of whether it's TC or not – it seems like a hard language to do a TCness proof or disproof for 02:59:31 b_jonas: I think the requirement was to get the opponent's life total as negative as possible, so most loops with a damaging effect in would just set it down to -1 or -2 or so and then stop because you'd won the game 03:00:35 hmm, now I'm reminded of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag, which is the sort of language which seems very unlikely to be TC and yet it's hard to disprove 03:02:37 flooding Waterfall Model is better-behaved than Xigxag is, so it's more likely to be TC, but presents the same sort of problem in trying to prove it 03:26:06 ais523: ok, if you don't use DMM's group's rule about that then that's another way to avoid some infinite loops, but that doesn't help avoid big finite loops. for that you need a limited resource, such as your deck or your own hit points, and BusyBeaver42 says they have one in that deck 03:32:39 yeah, the short version is we'd get a batch of computations for every sorcery we cast, the cheapest sorcery costs 2 life, and we gain life via 1 red mana, gain red via blue gain blue via white and gain white via green, gain green by drawing black lotus, draw cards with floating dream zubera with some other optimizations in there. 03:34:47 with the 'exchange rate' of those resources improving to the output of the last BB computation, the numbers get astronomical even if the busy beaver function was linear 03:37:35 ais523: one question I have that's maybe slightly easier than TC-ness is is any halting waterfall machine has a halting flooding machine that runs for at least as long 03:38:51 -!- mnr has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:38:55 if you could prove that, I suspect you could prove TCness 03:39:24 I don't think it's even theoretically possible for a sub-TC language to have a busy beaver that grows faster than a TC language 03:40:15 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 03:40:35 certainly, it's impossible for a language whose halting problem is decidable to have a busy beaver that grows faster than a TC language's 03:40:36 (but I'm not sure about the possibility of sub-TC but undecidable languages) 03:40:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry about my connection). 03:42:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:44:07 if you have two languages A and B, B is Turing-complete, and A is computable (i.e. not super-Turing), then BB_A(n) < BB_B(n+k) for some constant k 03:44:24 so it's impossible for a sub-TC language to have a busy beaver function that grows meaningfully faster than that for a TC language 03:45:37 or, hmm, this actually relies on B having some sort of fairly sane string literals 03:45:40 but The Waterfall Model does 03:45:58 otherwise you can create a language with an insane encoding 03:47:30 hmm, interesting 03:50:43 I guess that makes sense, I was hoping for a shortcut, but seems like no such luck 03:57:02 Though we dont need "meaningfully faster" than the BB function. 03:57:49 just "not meaningfully slower" 04:01:59 when it comes to busy beaver functions, there's usually no real difference 04:02:43 We could also potentially have 2 'normal' waterclocks 04:02:48 [[The Language That Explodes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87344 * Ais523 * (+2423) new joke language 04:03:54 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87345&oldid=86876 * Ais523 * (+79) /* General languages */ +[[The Language That Explodes]] 04:04:34 Though i'm not sure how much that helps with TC 04:05:37 But it certainly can't hurt right? 04:05:58 yes, that would make things easier (although they're probably still too difficult) 04:06:46 what's the precise rule for determining how much gets added to a flooding waterclock? 04:07:11 you mean by? 04:07:48 ah yes, right 04:08:48 when a flooding clock trips, instead of sending 1 copy of its row, it sends X where X is how much it has been incremented since the last time it tripped. 04:09:28 (we are also fine with clocks staying at 0) 04:13:17 I need to go to bed; I may think about it some more, but I can't guarantee that I'll find the answer (it seems like a pretty hard problem, and finding the original version of Waterfall took me years) 04:13:41 it might be interesting to create a page on the wiki about it, in case it attracts attention of any of the esolang experts who don't use IRC (although that's a fairly long shot) 04:15:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: bedtime). 04:18:35 sounds good, thanks 04:38:38 "even if the busy beaver function was linear" => now that's an odd hypothetical 04:39:34 yeah, i mean it would be less than the BB function 04:39:56 but you start chaining arrows together and things get big fast 04:40:28 yes, I know 04:40:50 you mentioned 5->5->5->5->5, that's already big 04:45:40 last year's standard deck got to (42↑↑↑↑42)→(42↑↑↑↑42)→(42↑↑↑↑42)→(42↑↑↑↑42)→50→7 04:45:46 on turn 2 04:46:59 turn 3* 04:48:05 link to the writeup if you are interested 04:48:06 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wjjHXZgGTnI0Qu6-L8pSyz9RZ72XL5xj4FszvHr2eaU/edit?usp=sharing 05:01:10 What rules are you using for "most damage without infinite" Magic: the Gathering, such as: What format and deck restrictions? What is opponent (if any) doing? What are you trying to damage (or does it matter)? Are any state-based actions ignored? etc? 05:16:54 mainly, vintage. opponents deck is 60 wastes, and will act against our interests, we are damaging the opponent, and all rules of MTG are observed the entire time 05:19:10 We've been doing a standard deck every year, though those don't need to go off turn 1 05:20:03 OK. What will be done with random effects (including shuffling)? 05:20:30 we get to pick as this is theoretical max 05:20:40 OK 05:21:01 though the distribution is so skewed that this is the average damage as well 05:26:23 oh and no sideboard 05:27:42 sideboard would basically make the deck 74 cards + a wish 06:35:37 [[Flooding Waterfall Model]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87346 * FortyTwo * (+1826) Rough draft of flooding waterclocks 06:36:46 -!- BusyBeaver42 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 06:50:29 -!- spruit11_ has joined. 06:54:10 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:02:50 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:05:26 someone here asked how to move the edge around block in own analogue of dot 07:05:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:05:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:06:13 judging from -v verbose flag I assume dot creates fake vertices along the edges to optimize them 07:08:23 looks like 1500 vertices is too much for him ..( https://i.imgur.com/LZGkV8T.png 07:09:36 1500 vertices and 9000 edges 07:46:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:52:32 -!- hendursaga has quit (Quit: hendursaga). 07:53:00 -!- hendursaga has joined. 08:06:01 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:12 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:12:59 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:33:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:07:58 probably I didn't have to invent a wheel of reducing the graph few months ago (if you remember, it was about homebrew deps tree) 09:08:09 https://graphviz.org/pdf/tred.1.pdf -- this thing seems to be installed with graphviz 09:25:17 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 09:25:46 -!- hendursaga has joined. 09:42:10 -!- Guest710 has joined. 09:55:56 -!- Guest710 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 10:15:43 BusyBeaver42: and your deck is limited to 60 cards? 10:16:24 "sideboard would basically make the deck 74 cards + a wish" ah, that answers it. so yes, 60 cards. 10:47:34 -!- riv has joined. 12:42:32 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:57:57 also it is in Mathematica https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/TransitiveReductionGraph.html 13:18:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:26:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:45:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 14:36:22 -!- hanif has joined. 14:51:39 -!- dbohdan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:56:13 -!- dbohdan has joined. 15:01:02 -!- dbohdan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:02:15 -!- dbohdan has joined. 15:10:28 -!- hanif has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:48 -!- hanif has joined. 15:14:50 -!- BusyBeaver42 has joined. 15:24:44 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Thesundidntvanish * New user account 15:43:54 [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87347&oldid=87220 * TheJonyMyster * (+3205) Added Headascii section 15:44:43 [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87348&oldid=87347 * TheJonyMyster * (-20) removed unnecessary table title 15:47:22 [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87349&oldid=87017 * Spargle * (+188) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */ 15:49:04 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:49:08 [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87350&oldid=87348 * TheJonyMyster * (+311) hello world again 15:55:09 -!- imode has joined. 16:01:51 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 16:02:05 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:27:27 -!- hanif has joined. 16:32:28 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:41:37 [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87351&oldid=63921 * Cortex * (-94) bye i guess 16:44:36 -!- BusyBeaver42 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:46:59 -!- BusyBeaver42 has joined. 16:49:03 b_jonas yeah both decks are limited to 60 cards 17:33:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:34:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 17:35:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:40:15 [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87352&oldid=87331 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+25) /* Memory */ 17:45:50 [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87353&oldid=87352 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+96) /* Syntax */ 17:54:03 [[YPIMOOMFWAMOOMLWAMOOMNWAMOOMCWAMOOMFWAMOOMSWAMOOMTWAMOOMCWAMOOMB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87354&oldid=87153 * Martsadas * (+1307) 17:54:06 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:30:00 good news for you ais523, flooding clocks have a similar problem with infinites, so its not super relevant if its TC or not 18:30:10 bad news for me though 18:32:24 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:34:48 The infinite is related to the fact that some of our creatures have two types, and we can have three of those arcbonded and kept barely alive by two different clocks that refill themselves, then reordering the arcbond triggers can cause them to die (123123 ->12131213) 18:37:59 -!- spruit11_ has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 18:38:20 -!- spruit11 has joined. 18:40:21 -!- hanif has joined. 19:02:50 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:09:02 it might still matter if we replace arcbond with massacre girl, but she's very restrictive as we don't want to be able to set off a computation too easily. 19:12:11 it's still an interesting question in theory, although I'm a little relieved it doesn't have an urgent practical use 19:19:04 -!- craigo has joined. 19:21:37 -!- vyv has joined. 19:59:54 [[User:RocketRace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87355&oldid=82405 * RocketRace * (+87) portsy 20:00:33 that's a pretty generous definition of practical 20:25:18 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Heptor * New user account 20:29:17 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87356&oldid=87338 * Heptor * (+210) /* Introductions */ 20:33:17 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87357&oldid=87127 * FLeckami21 * (+260) adding Sokolang 20:40:48 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 20:48:26 [[Matrixfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87358 * Heptor * (+1409) Matrixfuck is a brainfuck derivative with the memory being a 2d array. 20:50:17 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87359&oldid=87358 * Heptor * (+104) /* Syntax */ 20:55:52 [[Sokolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87360&oldid=87335 * FLeckami21 * (+0) 21:08:14 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:08:55 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Heptor * uploaded "[[File:Matrixfuck Example.gif]]" 21:09:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:12:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:17:02 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87362&oldid=87359 * Heptor * (+403) 21:17:57 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87363&oldid=87362 * Heptor * (-156) 21:21:26 [[Matrixfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87364&oldid=87363 * Heptor * (+81) 21:23:05 [[Matrixfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87365&oldid=87364 * Heptor * (+33) /* Syntax */ 21:35:36 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87366&oldid=87365 * Heptor * (+245) 21:48:01 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87367&oldid=87366 * Heptor * (+433) 21:49:55 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87368&oldid=87367 * Heptor * (+131) /* Implementation notes */ 21:51:53 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87369&oldid=87368 * Heptor * (+36) /* Syntax */ 21:53:11 [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87370&oldid=87273 * TheJonyMyster * (-10) toggles implies on or off, can probably be cleaned up still though 21:54:05 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87371&oldid=87369 * Heptor * (-31) /* Syntax */ 21:58:08 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87372&oldid=87371 * Heptor * (+290) /* Syntax */ 21:58:55 [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87373&oldid=87343 * Salpynx * (+11) /* turing */ 'truth-machine' is what this program form is known as 21:59:38 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87374&oldid=87372 * Heptor * (+17) /* Syntax */ 22:02:56 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87375&oldid=87374 * Heptor * (+106) /* Implementation notes */ 22:03:20 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87376&oldid=87375 * Heptor * (+0) /* Syntax */ 22:04:12 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87377&oldid=87376 * Heptor * (-2) /* Syntax */ 22:04:28 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87378&oldid=87377 * Heptor * (+8) /* Syntax */ 22:06:18 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87379&oldid=87378 * Heptor * (+57) /* Syntax */ 22:06:55 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87380&oldid=87379 * Heptor * (-57) /* Syntax */ 22:07:42 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87381&oldid=87380 * Heptor * (+93) /* Notes */ 22:38:30 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87382&oldid=87381 * Heptor * (+313) 22:40:08 -!- BusyBeaver42 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 22:43:00 someone's new online befunge interpreter https://tjol.eu/rfunge/ 22:43:16 written in rust, aims for 98 22:45:37 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87383&oldid=87382 * Heptor * (-119) /* Implementation notes */ 22:51:32 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87384&oldid=87383 * Heptor * (+56) /* Notes */ 23:07:00 [[User:DoggyDogWhirl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87385&oldid=87079 * DoggyDogWhirl * (+3130) Added TwoBrainsfuck 23:13:17 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87386&oldid=87384 * Heptor * (+130) /* Notes */ 23:13:31 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87387&oldid=87386 * Heptor * (-8) 23:32:36 -!- warlock has changed nick to identify. 23:33:06 -!- identify has changed nick to Guest5396. 23:33:12 -!- Guest5396 has changed nick to double. 23:33:29 -!- double has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:45:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 2021-08-18: 00:12:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:27:34 my conclusion after spending several hours on trying to draw neat graphs of several thousand edges: 1. graphviz really sucks in layouting 2. wolfram layouts well but the console tool is a pain without a notebook 3. wolfram mathematica costs money 00:29:29 there is also an option 4. wolfram cloud -- but I didn't try it, already very bored by trying to stylize the graph in terminal _<> 00:31:26 also thinking about IRC bot connected to Wolfram stuff for arbitrary purposes 00:32:54 the problem of REPL is you can't just run untrusted code on temporary machine, because you can activate the free license only on two machines 00:33:41 the most possible option I see is to compile functions and deploy on temp machines, should work on some ubuntu image I suppose 00:34:01 there is also a Wolfram Cloud Functions but with quotas 00:34:54 Wolfram Alpha is also quoted 00:35:07 but 200 requests per day is enough for fun 00:35:53 I had Wolfram Alpha IRC bot many years ago, they even had a neat documentation 00:39:21 this all is no neat https://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/GraphDrawing.html 00:51:31 > let l=0:map(succ.maximum.zipWith(+)l.reverse)(tail.inits$l) in l 00:51:32 [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,2... 00:51:50 hm underwhelming 00:53:15 except for the type checking on first try, that was neat. 00:54:18 oh duh 00:54:59 going to need the index anyhow 00:59:04 I had wanted to draw a ZZT world map, which doesn't have several thousand edges, but probably not more than few hundred. However, in that case also is needed the direction (north, south, east, west), and then there will also be passages, too. Also some links might be different when going back the other way, and might need multiple pages. A similar thing can be applicable for text adventure games. 01:01:01 > let l=0:[n+maximum(zipWith(+)l$reverse$take(n-1)l)|n<-[2..]] in l 01:01:03 [0,2,5,9,14,20,27,35,44,54,65,77,90,104,119,135,152,170,189,209,230,252,275,... 01:01:29 hm that's not what i calculated in my head 01:01:56 oh duh 01:02:05 > let l=0:[n+minimum(zipWith(+)l$reverse$take(n-1)l)|n<-[2..]] in l 01:02:06 [0,2,5,8,12,16,20,24,29,34,39,44,49,54,59,64,70,76,82,88,94,100,106,112,118,... 01:02:21 that 01:02:25 's more like it 01:03:11 This is the code I have: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/freezzt.ui/artifact/ceca87315080ce9a Maybe you know how to make it better; I don't know 01:03:22 @oeis 0,2,5,8,12,16,20,24,29,34,39,44,49,54,59,64,70,76,82,88,94,100,106,112,118 01:03:22 https://oeis.org/A003314 Binary entropy function: a(1)=0; for n > 1, a(n) = ... 01:03:22 [0,2,5,8,12,16,20,24,29,34,39,44,49,54,59,64,70,76,82,88,94,100,106,112,118,... 01:05:49 zzo38 in mathematica you can only set the NSWE direction when plotting directed graphs 01:05:59 probably the same in graphviz 01:06:40 and you don't be able to tweak specific branches anyway, like putting one to the left, another one to the right 01:07:31 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87388&oldid=87387 * Heptor * (+50) 01:07:48 graphviz is so kludgy, they provide the utility "unflatten" that creates fake nodes to make dot layouting less ugly 01:08:27 that function came up when i tried to find out if the two bisections algorithm i and nakilon suggested to b_jonas yesterday is optimal 01:08:30 I would not want to use Mathematica 01:09:45 it's a measure of the optimal efficiency of a binary search tree 01:09:54 (for n leaves) 01:11:48 and it turns out that with a bit of balancing tweak, that is the efficiency of the double bisection search for n=3,4,5,7,9,10 files at least 01:12:19 er wait was 9 included 01:14:36 no 01:15:14 6,8,9 are one off that function but still optimal for the problem i think 01:15:24 and i haven't finished thinking about 11 yet. 01:18:50 > let l=0:[n+minimum(zipWith(+)l$reverse$take(n-1)l)|n<-[2..]] in [l!!(n*(n-1)`div`2)|n<-[3..]] 01:18:56 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 01:18:59 hum 01:19:04 > let l=0:[n+minimum(zipWith(+)l$reverse$take(n-1)l)|n<-[2..]] in [l!!(n*(n-1)`div`2)|n<-[3..11]] 01:19:06 [8,20,39,64,100,142,195,258,328] 01:20:00 oops off by one 01:20:26 > let l=0:[n+minimum(zipWith(+)l$reverse$take(n-1)l)|n<-[2..]] in [l!!(n*(n-1)`div`2-1)|n<-[3..11]] 01:20:27 [5,16,34,59,94,136,188,251,321] 01:22:08 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87389&oldid=87388 * Heptor * (+11386) i gave up 01:23:20 @oeis 5,16,34,60,94,137,189,251 01:23:20 Sequence not found. 01:23:24 darn 01:24:16 @oeis 5,16,34,59,94,136,188,251,321 01:24:17 Sequence not found. 01:25:10 maybe no one has considered that 01:25:39 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87390&oldid=87389 * Heptor * (-11221) /* Implementations */ 01:26:40 I did some contribution to OEIS 01:26:47 when was solving PE many years ago 01:27:13 I've added a file with first numbers and something else 01:27:48 i did add a proof to OEIS once that i made after a discussion on SE code golf 01:28:00 but that's my only contribution 01:28:41 i don't remember what sequence it was 01:29:42 https://oeis.org/A181061 01:30:06 there as Victor M 01:30:30 so table and a plot 01:30:46 [[User:Ch44d]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87391 * Ch44d * (+377) Hello! 01:31:42 ic 01:32:49 nice 01:32:58 i found it in my mailbox http://oeis.org/A187924 01:35:54 heh this random '7' in #293 29999999999997999999999999999999293 01:41:18 curious. a lot of the others have random 8s but those look too similar to 9s 01:41:52 hah, didn't notice 01:43:30 i think this happens because to get a number with the right digit sum as small as possible you want lots of 9s 01:44:26 and usually you just need to change a few to 8s to get it just right 01:44:44 but for that one number that didn't work somehow 02:22:17 oerjan: thanks (re bisecting for two changes) 02:38:40 this is weird 02:41:05 on this file http://sprunge.us/jGGXAz I do the $ tail -n +2 < file | jq . | less 02:41:46 then I use / to search, and if you search for "61" you'll find many matches 02:42:07 but if you search for "player" you'll find only one: "mounted_player_id": -1, 02:42:32 while there is at least one more match: "player": { 02:44:05 > "player" 02:44:07 "player" 02:44:42 ENOSTRANGEUNICODE 02:45:00 > "ø" 02:45:01 "\248" 02:45:41 I feel like it's some bug either in less or in it used with jq 02:46:12 ahahhaa, no, nvm 02:46:31 EOKAY 02:46:41 the thing is that the context around "mounted_player_id" is so similar that when I press 'n' and 'N' the screen does not change 02:46:48 so I supposed there is no other match found 02:47:27 time to sleep 02:51:35 a(4649) = 9949859999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999... 02:51:41 ...99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999994649 requires quite a lot of changes (mainly because 10^7 = 1 (mod 4649)) 02:52:58 for the same reason they're concentrated in the leading 7 digits of the number 03:08:03 oh, that number has digit sum 4648, oops 03:09:46 So, correction: a(4649) = 29289699999[500x9]999994649 03:45:42 [[Dual tape]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87392 * Ch44d * (+73) Claim page and add interpreter 03:46:37 [[User:Ch44d]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87393&oldid=87391 * Ch44d * (+20) add dual tape 03:54:44 [[Dual tape ez]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87394 * Ch44d * (+76) Claim page and add interpreter 03:55:09 [[User:Ch44d]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87395&oldid=87393 * Ch44d * (+23) add dual tape ez 04:25:32 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:37 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:26:11 -!- perlbot has joined. 04:26:41 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 04:31:09 looking at today's girl genius, i cannot help guessing who this is https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20030604 https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040908 04:31:42 . o O ( it's either that, or othar. ) 04:37:35 int-e: ^ 04:37:37 they have not even published today's GG properly yet 04:37:41 wtf :P 04:37:46 oh 04:37:49 (Yes I know I can edit the URL) 04:38:02 er i didn't link today's. 04:38:33 oh. 04:38:53 well i don't know what you mean i clicked my usual link to go there and it worked. 04:39:27 I go to my bookmark and check the '>' link 04:42:34 which apparently is lagging behind the "today's comic" stuff. weird 04:42:47 ah 04:49:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:52:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:54:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:38:20 there should be a pastebin for colorized text 05:38:45 I always install the colorised log plugin to Jenkins 05:39:10 I wish I paste text that has been formatted with colors or boldness 05:39:21 * I wish I could 05:41:05 actually maybe some pastebins accept standard terminal colors via API 05:41:30 so it would be possible to make some proxy website, maybe even in pure JS 06:20:32 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 06:28:37 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:30:25 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:37:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:53:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kGuN8WIGNc at some point in history for no reason at all, someone flipped all the letters 07:02:02 cool visualisation 07:04:15 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:04:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:05:28 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:05:25 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:40 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:35:41 -!- dyeplexer has joined. 09:53:01 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 10:23:42 [[Pefunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87396 * YamTokTpaFa * (+301) add later document later 10:24:08 [[Pefunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87397&oldid=87396 * YamTokTpaFa * (+41) 10:24:19 [[Pefunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87398&oldid=87397 * YamTokTpaFa * (+1) 10:25:55 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:32:57 [[Pefunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87399&oldid=87398 * YamTokTpaFa * (+289) Can anyone help me translate blogs 10:41:47 -!- hanif has joined. 11:00:41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kGuN8WIGNc at some point in history for no reason at all, someone flipped all the letters – I’m pretty sure the reason for that was that during the transition from writing RTL to writing LTR they always kept the letters facing in the direction of writing. 11:04:52 (IIRC at some point sometimes they’d write switching direction every line (boustrophedon), so that you didn’t have to scan back to get to the start of the next line, and in that case also the letters would face in the direction of writing for each individual line.) 11:07:21 -!- hanif has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:07:32 -!- hanif has joined. 11:29:11 -!- delta23 has joined. 11:42:22 imagine writing books in befunge in all 4 letters 11:43:42 and sometimes executing "p" command to fill the gaps for future plot twists and past misteries 13:14:09 [[Pefunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87400&oldid=87399 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* Links */ Cat 13:35:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:42:32 [[Dual tape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87401&oldid=87392 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+48) Cats 13:43:34 [[Dual tape ez]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87402&oldid=87394 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Cat 13:45:59 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87403&oldid=87299 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+79) Add 5 languages 13:47:40 [[Special:Log/move]] move * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Esolang:Gdelfuck]] to [[Gdelfuck]]: Remove NS 13:47:40 [[Special:Log/move]] move * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Esolang talk:Gdelfuck]] to [[Talk:Gdelfuck]]: Remove NS 13:57:25 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:57:32 [[ZZZ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87408&oldid=41112 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+40) Link to seemingly broken compiler (still better than nothing) 13:58:58 -!- hanif has joined. 14:24:15 Melvar: that seems to happen only some of the time. almost all Chinese and Japanese characters are written exactly the same orientation whether it's written left to right or right to left, horizontally or vertically. I believe the only counterexamples are some punctuation like dot and comma and parenthesis and quotation signs, as well as a few that change in horizontal vs vertical orientation but don't 14:24:21 flip, namely the dakuten and possibly the Japanese vertical repeat mark 14:24:59 no style of digits flip in left to right latin/cyrillic text versus right to left hebrew/arabic/persian text 14:25:55 some punctuation like parenthesis and question mark do sometimes flip between these, but they are also used differently in different languages 14:26:03 Yes, I was replying here to the video which is about the development of the Latin alphabet – this flipping happed specifically in one of its precursors. 14:27:21 that said, it is true that boustrophedon inscriptions in phoenician script did flip letters, see eg. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki?curid=66649930 14:27:44 but wasn't Phoenician written left to right from the start, when it wasn't boustrophedon? 14:28:40 here'sa better flipping boustrophedon example: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gortys_law_inscription.jpg 14:28:40 Wikipedia says Phoenician was RTL. 14:28:51 this one is actually in greek script 14:31:15 yeah, it looks like you're right, phoenician was written right to left, and later flipped to greek 14:31:31 So, my understanding is Phoenician started mostly RTL, some boustrophedon, then when Greeks adapted their alphabet, they also used boustrophedon in stone inscriptions, but eventually settled into using mostly LTR as time went on, which resulted in the final form of the letters being flipped from how they started out in Phoenician. 14:32:04 this wasn't obvious to me because I know very little about phoenician, other than through how the greek and hebrew scripts were developed from it (arabic/persian was too, but I know very little about that) 14:32:13 Hmm does this have to do with engraving script in stone? 14:33:08 int-e: I don't really know, but I don't see why engraving in stone vs slate or pottery would make a difference 14:33:23 well ok, that's not true 14:33:39 you can write into slate fast enough that it matters that you cover the letters with your hand 14:33:40 I'm picturing chisel and hammer, so the writing hand becomes the left one 14:33:51 I have no clue as to the pressures of stone inscription specifically, except for an unsubstantiated claim I heard once that a right-handed person has an easier time carving RTL. 14:34:35 And you're probably better off working towards the blank end... so swinging from the right means pushing to the left is preferable? I don't know, obviously. 14:35:06 (Which like, makes some amount of sense, exactly that way, but no citation attached.) 14:37:01 (Whereas writing in ink I would guess that, well, writing LTR with your right hand keeps your hand from smudging what you just wrote.) 14:37:46 yeah, LTR or TTB make for ink 14:38:12 oh by the way, as for ancient stuff. did you know that historically lions lived in southern europe, present turkey, the middle east, some of north africa, and india, but later got driven out from most of those places by humans? so ancient rome actually experienced lions first hand a lot, which is how they managed to spread the completely misguided idea that the lion is the king of the animals, which 14:38:18 then got into children's fables. it's a pity, because the tiger is a much more worthy candidate for the same slot, only the ancient romans didn't meet tigers much, they only heard about them like many of those mythical beasts like phoenixes and elephants 14:41:12 basically people kept believing the misguided ideas of ancient philosophers like Aristotle and Pliny the Elder up until the enlightenment, and I don't know who established the lion as the king of the animals, but that false idea got into the culture 14:41:34 the Lionking movie should be based on tigers, not lions 14:41:47 so do a large number of fables about animals 14:41:57 I’ve heard the amaZulu also consider the lion to be king, which is kind of relevant to Lion King. 14:42:02 the sayings about lion's dens with footprints going in but not out 14:42:30 Melvar: isn't that also because they weren't exposed to tigers, since tigers only lived in east Asia? 14:42:31 I hear that some languages around that time confused cats and dogs, even; our modern taxonomy didn't exist back then. 14:42:45 what about lion-eating poets though 14:43:14 I mean, I presume they were not exposed to tigers either, yes. 15:22:56 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 15:23:23 -!- hendursaga has joined. 15:30:39 `olist 1242 15:30:42 olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1242.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 15:56:54 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:58:31 -!- imode has joined. 17:05:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:07:57 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:08:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:10:12 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:10:28 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:12:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:13:45 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:15:56 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:16:22 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:20:13 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 18:36:24 -!- dyeplexer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:07:39 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:38:57 [[K]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87409&oldid=51812 * Corbin * (+2) Improve disambiguation text; link to WP's article. This mirrors the link atop [[Q]]. 19:40:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:42:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:45:10 Ugh, I'm starting to think esoterically. I'm thinking about how to define Boolean algebras, and it's very tempting to try to use just NAND since it's a universal basis. 19:45:47 It's not bad, exactly, but I know that I'll just eventually define a richer basis later for speed. Maybe this is one of those "premature optimization" situations of which the legends speak. 19:47:54 Oh hey, WP's already got the entire discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_axioms_for_Boolean_algebra 19:54:26 definitely use NAND 19:55:01 those axioms are really interesting 19:55:12 I think the robbins one was unproved until computers did it 20:05:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:11:47 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:12:23 -!- hendursaga has joined. 20:19:45 b_jonas: the romans were definitely exposed to elephants. rather brutally so. see: punic wars. 20:20:56 (wikipedia has had a lot of punic war articles featured lately) 20:21:46 by phonecians, no less 20:21:59 argh 20:22:16 *oe 20:37:23 heh, that wikipedia logic article cites wolfram 20:53:43 oerjan: yeah, elephant is probably a bad example 20:56:34 i found the basis sizes given in that article so inconsistent that I made a talk page comment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Minimal_axioms_for_Boolean_algebra#1-basis_or_2-basis? 20:57:20 (hm some of your browser might leave out the final ? i guess) 20:57:22 *+s 23:50:45 [[User:Ch44d]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87410&oldid=87395 * Ch44d * (+21) add category 23:59:23 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 2021-08-19: 02:11:35 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:12:53 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 02:21:45 Do you have any English documentation of TRON Application Databus file format? 03:38:45 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KatrinaKitten * New user account 03:52:41 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87411&oldid=87356 * KatrinaKitten * (+399) 03:53:40 [[MagiStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87412&oldid=67529 * KatrinaKitten * (+14) 03:56:35 [[Roadrunner]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87413&oldid=79552 * KatrinaKitten * (+24) Update author name, as she (me) is transgender 04:07:40 [[User:KatrinaKitten]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87414 * KatrinaKitten * (+525) Created page with "Katrina Scialdone is an American freelance programmer who has been creating esolangs sporadically for the better part of a decade. She is a transgender woman, and has put her..." 04:08:25 [[Subterra]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87415&oldid=56188 * KatrinaKitten * (+52) Add author credit 04:12:25 [[User:KatrinaKitten]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87416&oldid=87414 * KatrinaKitten * (+21) Categorize page 04:36:48 [[LispNTI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87417 * KatrinaKitten * (+626) Created page with "LispNTI (an acronym meaning "Listen, It's Shit, Please Never Try It") is a minimal Lisp-like language created by [[User:KatrinaKitten|Katrina Scialdone]]. The language's prima..." 04:37:54 [[LispNTI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87418&oldid=87417 * KatrinaKitten * (-28) Remove from joke languages category 04:38:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:38:51 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87419&oldid=87403 * KatrinaKitten * (+14) Add LispNTI 04:39:10 [[User:KatrinaKitten]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87420&oldid=87416 * KatrinaKitten * (+14) 04:52:50 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:53:17 -!- hendursaga has joined. 04:56:47 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87421&oldid=87278 * KakkoiiChris * (-71) /* Numbers */ Removed L literal 07:55:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:05:25 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:07:35 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:19:10 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:32:31 -!- craigoverend[m] has quit (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM). 08:32:31 -!- daggy1234[m] has quit (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM). 08:32:36 -!- jryans has quit (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM). 08:32:37 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM). 08:35:34 -!- jryans has joined. 08:36:07 [[Talk:Ultimate bf instruction minimalization!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87422&oldid=23974 * YamTokTpaFa * (+218) 08:36:21 [[Talk:Ultimate bf instruction minimalization!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87423&oldid=87422 * YamTokTpaFa * (+0) 08:36:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 08:36:34 -!- daggy1234[m] has joined. 08:36:34 -!- craigoverend[m] has joined. 09:01:05 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 09:47:31 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:26:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:03:18 heh, I'm remembering a thing from a childhood' 12:05:47 I was like 8, it was spring or autumn1 week long school spring break; we were told to read something in English and write down all the words and their translations that we've learned, like a little dictionary (later we were told to do such all the time) 12:07:19 so I took a new notebook, started making the list, finding translations in the real dictionary, and since all dictionaries provide a transcription I decided I have to write it too 12:08:10 but we were not taught yet how to read it and my parents didn't know English, so I came up with my own transcription, with some weird symbols that only I knew how to read 12:09:23 then back in school it appeared that we were not really supposed to write down the transcriptions, so I thought that "I did something wrong" and I threw it away ..( 13:25:00 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:49:07 Has anyone seen a PDF of "Computer Architecture: A Minimalist Perspective" available online? It's about OISC. 13:49:14 -!- hanif has joined. 13:53:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 13:53:55 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:58:03 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 13:58:25 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:30:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:39:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:40:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:50:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:51:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:03:40 -!- archenoth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:04:58 -!- archenoth has joined. 15:09:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:10:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:18:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 15:18:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:20:53 -!- vyv has joined. 15:21:49 -!- Oshawott has joined. 15:22:40 -!- archenoth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:23:03 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 15:23:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:29:32 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 15:30:01 -!- hendursaga has joined. 15:39:12 -!- Sgeo has 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quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:24:46 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded "[[File:Noreddots.png]]" 17:31:21 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87427&oldid=87425 * PixelatedStarfish * (+84) 17:32:15 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87428&oldid=87427 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) 17:33:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 17:33:54 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:36:01 -!- KeziahMason has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:38:12 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 17:38:35 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:38:47 -!- spruit11 has joined. 17:42:14 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87429&oldid=87428 * PixelatedStarfish * (+34) 17:42:40 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87430&oldid=87429 * PixelatedStarfish * (-25) 17:45:40 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:52:14 -!- KeziahMason has joined. 17:59:33 -!- spruit11 has joined. 18:04:10 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:07:46 -!- spruit11 has joined. 18:10:06 -!- KeziahMason has changed nick to mnrmnaugh. 18:12:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 18:14:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:21:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:22:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:36:40 -!- Oshawott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:43:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:43:57 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:53:03 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:57:12 http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~nachumd/papers/2D.pdf 18:58:20 Thanks, pushed to stack. 19:00:26 -!- Cale has quit (*.net *.split). 19:00:27 -!- nakilon has quit (*.net *.split). 19:00:27 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:00:27 -!- relrod has quit (*.net *.split). 19:00:40 -!- relrod has joined. 19:00:51 -!- Cale has joined. 19:01:16 -!- nakilon has joined. 19:03:37 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:08:53 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:13:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 19:13:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:15:22 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:32:15 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:32:30 -!- Cale has joined. 19:40:25 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:41:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:43:04 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 19:57:07 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:58:24 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:07:33 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:07:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:08:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:40:50 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87431&oldid=87430 * PixelatedStarfish * (+344) 20:41:26 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87432&oldid=87431 * PixelatedStarfish * (+14) 20:42:58 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87433&oldid=87432 * PixelatedStarfish * (+82) 21:10:50 [[Category:Unimplemented]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87434&oldid=33983 * Corbin * (+29) Specify which category should be used for implemented languages. 21:12:14 https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2021/08/19/undecidable-translational-tilings-with-only-two-tiles-or-one-nonabelian-tile/ !!! 21:13:50 [[Cammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87435&oldid=87265 * Corbin * (+2176) Link to reference implementation and explain how to use it. 21:16:05 -!- src has joined. 21:43:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 21:43:54 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:48:03 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 21:48:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:59:45 -!- immibis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:31:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 23:19:39 -!- delta23 has joined. 23:46:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 2021-08-20: 01:11:50 -!- src has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:07:00 [[Scroll]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87436 * WreckingGames * (+1068) Created page with "'''Scroll''' is an esolang created by [[User|WreckingGames]]. it was made for no reason. it uses a string for data. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Command !! Ac..." 02:36:31 b_jonas: TIL about "primitive recursive functionals". The strength of many systems that I'd thought was PR-complete is actually something a little better. The Complexity Zoo doesn't appear to have an entry for this class, and I don't know what its standard name is. 02:36:49 I'll add this information to the wiki as soon as I understand it and have good sources to cite. 03:08:16 -!- impomatic has joined. 03:09:37 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 03:09:57 -!- impomatic has joined. 03:14:01 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87437&oldid=87433 * PixelatedStarfish * (+88) /* Hello World */ 03:15:43 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87438&oldid=87437 * PixelatedStarfish * (+57) /* Truth Machine */ 03:20:20 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87439&oldid=87438 * PixelatedStarfish * (+211) /* Operations */ 03:20:39 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87440&oldid=87439 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Operations */ 03:20:55 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87441&oldid=87440 * PixelatedStarfish * (-4) /* Operations */ 03:25:46 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87442&oldid=87441 * PixelatedStarfish * (+324) /* Operations */ 03:26:49 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87443&oldid=87442 * PixelatedStarfish * (+27) /* Instructions */ 03:26:58 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87444&oldid=87443 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* Instructions */ 03:27:37 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87445&oldid=87444 * PixelatedStarfish * (+26) /* Memory */ 03:28:04 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87446&oldid=87445 * PixelatedStarfish * (+15) /* Memory */ 03:28:24 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87447&oldid=87446 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Memory */ 03:35:33 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87448&oldid=87447 * PixelatedStarfish * (+392) /* Cell Access Operation */ 03:36:05 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87449&oldid=87448 * PixelatedStarfish * (+7) /* Cell Access Operation */ 03:36:17 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:36:34 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87450&oldid=87449 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Cell Access Operation */ 03:40:46 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87451&oldid=87450 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Instructions */ 03:45:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 03:45:25 -!- impomatic has joined. 03:49:35 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 03:49:58 -!- impomatic has joined. 04:01:00 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 04:05:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 04:05:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 04:09:36 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 04:09:58 -!- impomatic has joined. 04:15:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 04:15:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 04:24:36 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 04:24:57 -!- impomatic has joined. 04:26:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:05:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 05:05:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 05:09:35 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 05:09:58 -!- impomatic has joined. 05:25:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 05:25:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 05:29:36 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 05:29:59 -!- impomatic has joined. 06:11:45 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:12:08 -!- Cale has joined. 06:25:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 06:25:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 06:34:35 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 06:34:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:13:41 -!- immibis_ has joined. 07:22:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 07:35:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:05:36 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:03 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:30:12 [[Gammaplex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87452&oldid=12486 * Ais523 * (+13) /* External resources */ update the Esoteric File Archive link to a mirror that works (the original has been dead for a while now) 08:52:07 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:56:29 -!- Noisytoot has joined. 09:15:05 I wish there was a git blame for wiki articles 09:19:45 this thing kinda solved what I needed https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/35914/4432 09:20:02 you enter the substring and it has found where it was added 09:57:36 just realised that my PCBR thing is similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_sorting in the way that 1. it gives an assumption that item1 > item2 even if those particular items could not be compared to each other 09:58:27 and 2. that the exact outpur is not fully determined, and in case of PCBR it's a sorted list of unsorted sublists 09:59:17 the more data you provide the smaller the sublists so the sorting ("ranking" in terms of the PCBR name) is more precise 10:00:17 also because of that the exact output per-sublist items order is defined by input order 10:06:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:40:09 actually I have a feeling that PCBR is effectively the same as topological sorting but it does not need a graph as input -- it builds it implicitely by doing the O(n^n) comparisons 10:43:50 if they appear to be the same thing then the whole concept evolves to a statement that "topological sorting is just a way to sort barealy comparable things resistant to space deformations" 10:44:14 that might be probably already said by someone somewhere 11:07:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:14:22 oh, unlike classical topo sort the PCBR allows disconnected components 11:51:27 -!- hanif has joined. 11:53:38 Corbin: are primitive recursive functionals really more powerful than PR? 11:55:07 huh looks like there may be something on the talk page regarding this under §higher-type computability 12:00:19 "A primitive functional of type 1→1 does not just take primitive recursive functionals as arguments." 12:38:10 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Extramoose * New user account 12:43:59 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Danielle * New user account 12:53:09 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87453&oldid=87411 * Danielle * (+447) 12:57:30 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:08:57 -!- archenoth has joined. 13:10:54 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:13:12 hanif: I'm still doing research, but it is claimed that the Ackermann function is a member of one of these higher types. This would indeed make it more powerful than primitive recursion. 13:14:29 ah i see 14:13:20 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:20:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:37:17 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:43:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 14:43:40 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:47:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 14:48:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:48:11 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:03:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 15:17:19 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:27:10 -!- aarchi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:27:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:27:14 -!- faxlore has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:31:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:32:28 -!- aarchi has joined. 15:33:08 -!- faxlore has joined. 16:16:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:16:52 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:21:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 16:21:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:35:10 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 16:35:36 -!- hendursaga has joined. 16:39:07 -!- hanif has joined. 16:43:41 -!- hanif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:46:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:46:54 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:51:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 16:51:24 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:26:20 -!- hanif has joined. 17:38:04 I thought to use topological sorting for fossil too, where cards that reference other artifacts will be the edges (to make a cycle would require attacking MD5 and SHA-1 at the same time), and using the D cards as the secondary sorting (with some kind of third (and possibly also fourth) sorting if the D cards are the same or are absent). 18:09:24 -!- imode has joined. 18:20:14 [[Blarb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87454&oldid=79809 * Elimirks * (+8130) Import the contents of the readme 18:54:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:06:04 -!- hanif has quit (Quit: quit). 19:40:15 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:42:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:42:01 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 20:08:44 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:12 https://github.com/ivanreese/visual-programming-codex/blob/main/implementations.md 20:20:15 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:32:18 [[FROM HERE TO THERE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87455&oldid=80718 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-35) Update /* BNF */ 22:04:55 i did not know about unicode Tag sequences 22:16:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:09:12 [[FROM HERE TO THERE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87456&oldid=87455 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-172) /* Computational class */ Unknown 23:30:28 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:42:43 -!- spruit11 has joined. 23:47:26 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:54:39 -!- spruit11 has joined. 23:55:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 2021-08-21: 02:05:57 -!- ecs has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:07:28 -!- ecs has joined. 03:51:32 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:35:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:23:00 -!- imode has joined. 06:33:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:54:16 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:35:10 -!- Koen_ has joined. 07:53:44 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Whirlpool-Programmer * New user account 08:06:05 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:00 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:14:18 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87457&oldid=87453 * Whirlpool-Programmer * (+402) 08:14:48 [[User:Whirlpool-programmer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87458 * Whirlpool-Programmer * (+4) Created page with "Hehe" 08:14:59 [[BinPython]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87459 * Whirlpool-Programmer * (+835) Created page with "== BinPython == The name tells it all.. Binary-Python === A language which is indeed a brother of python, but in BINARY! === There is one Windows executable to run Binpytho..." 08:18:17 -!- sknebel has quit (Quit: sknebel). 08:18:42 -!- sknebel has joined. 08:27:19 [[BinPython]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87460&oldid=87459 * Whirlpool-Programmer * (+12) 09:39:36 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:04:42 -!- Koen__ has joined. 10:07:32 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:12:06 [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87461&oldid=86848 * Blue screen of life * (+163) Added Befunge-98 interpreter 12:05:42 -!- riv has joined. 12:08:30 -!- ddff has joined. 12:08:56 -!- ddff has left. 12:26:55 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:45:16 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 12:45:40 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:07:22 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 13:24:36 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87462&oldid=87419 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+16) /* B */ BinPython 13:48:32 [[BinPython]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87463&oldid=87460 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+577) Cats, conversion 13:48:50 [[BinPython]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87464&oldid=87463 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) /* Let's Teach you some BinPythoning.. */ m 13:51:23 [[Talk:BinPython]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87465 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+226) /* Windows executable */ new section 14:13:48 -!- Koen__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:42 -!- lifthrasiir_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:24:58 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 14:50:46 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 14:53:01 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 14:55:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:10:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:12:21 -!- orichalcumcosmon has joined. 15:15:54 -!- orichalcumcosmon has quit (Client Quit). 15:23:12 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:23:38 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 15:30:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:06:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:37:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 16:43:46 -!- src has joined. 16:49:58 -!- joast has joined. 17:18:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:19:31 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87466&oldid=87451 * PixelatedStarfish * (+7) /* Hello World */ 17:21:22 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87467&oldid=87466 * PixelatedStarfish * (+92) /* Truth Machine */ 17:23:52 -!- ^[ has quit (Quit: ^[). 17:31:24 -!- ^[ has joined. 17:42:49 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:00:38 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:00:59 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:05:09 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 18:05:29 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:09:17 -!- kciN has joined. 18:14:05 Hey, guys! Where can I find more information about jot? I'm trying desperately to google, but the only link I find is the one wiki already links to. 18:17:57 Also, what are similar languages to it, (excluding iota and zot) and why is zot not listed in turing tarpits? 18:18:24 oops, it is, didn't see the next page link. 18:35:50 -!- kciN has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:37:07 [[OLNMLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87468&oldid=87203 * Grs * (-1) Updated d to implementation 19:04:57 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:07:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:36:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:38:03 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:40:14 -!- imode has joined. 19:41:52 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:43:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:44:32 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 19:45:38 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 19:46:00 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:47:51 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:50:09 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 19:50:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:50:29 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:02:57 [[OLNMLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87469&oldid=87468 * Grs * (-39) Removed not everything in it&JavaScript 20:04:31 Hm, I hope kciN found the WP page on Iota and Jot, because it's actually pretty good. I'll add that now, since we don't have links. 21:06:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 21:56:18 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:15:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:15:37 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:19:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 22:20:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:25:15 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:33:09 -!- riv has joined. 22:35:50 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:36:08 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:42:23 -!- jinn has quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by jinn_))). 22:44:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:45:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:56:34 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:57:43 [[Albabet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87470&oldid=82975 * Threesodas * (+110) 22:58:28 [[Albabet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87471&oldid=87470 * Threesodas * (+5) 23:11:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:16:11 [[Iota]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87472&oldid=79342 * Corbin * (+30) /* External resources */ Add link to WP. 23:16:48 [[Jot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87473&oldid=79341 * Corbin * (+29) /* External resources */ Add link to WP. 23:17:29 [[Zot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87474&oldid=79343 * Corbin * (+29) Add link to WP. 23:25:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 23:25:37 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:29:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 23:30:07 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:32:10 -!- immibis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:34:38 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: see you in a week (nothing bad is happening, it's just that I won't be able to get on IRC)). 23:35:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 23:35:37 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:39:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 23:40:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:53:14 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 2021-08-22: 00:13:13 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87475&oldid=87467 * PixelatedStarfish * (-85) 00:49:49 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87476&oldid=87475 * PixelatedStarfish * (+130) 00:50:05 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87477&oldid=87476 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Memory */ 00:52:07 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87478&oldid=87477 * PixelatedStarfish * (+72) /* Broken Truth Machine */ 00:52:23 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87479&oldid=87478 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Accumulator Test */ 00:54:52 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87480&oldid=87479 * PixelatedStarfish * (+71) 00:56:26 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87481&oldid=87480 * PixelatedStarfish * (+46) 00:56:42 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87482&oldid=87481 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) 01:00:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 01:00:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 01:04:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 01:05:11 -!- impomatic has joined. 01:12:27 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87483&oldid=87482 * PixelatedStarfish * (+434) /* Grammar */ 01:13:05 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87484&oldid=87483 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Grammar */ 01:13:37 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87485&oldid=87484 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Grammar */ 01:13:51 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87486&oldid=87485 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Grammar */ 01:15:15 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87487&oldid=87486 * PixelatedStarfish * (+68) /* Grammar */ 01:16:50 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87488&oldid=87487 * PixelatedStarfish * (+30) /* Syntax */ 01:17:29 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87489&oldid=87488 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Broken Truth Machine */ 01:17:42 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87490&oldid=87489 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Broken Hello World */ 01:18:10 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87491&oldid=87490 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Accumulator Test */ 01:18:20 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87492&oldid=87491 * PixelatedStarfish * (-4) /* Accumulator Test */ 01:19:21 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87493&oldid=87492 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) 01:20:09 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87494&oldid=87493 * PixelatedStarfish * (-4) /* Instructions */ 01:20:36 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87495&oldid=87494 * PixelatedStarfish * (+6) /* Grammar in EBNF */ 02:05:45 . o O ( broken preview button ) 02:20:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 02:20:38 -!- impomatic has joined. 02:24:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 02:25:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 03:20:10 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:27:15 -!- spruit11 has joined. 03:33:34 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 04:30:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 04:32:42 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 04:48:13 [[Matrixfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87496&oldid=87390 * Heptor * (+27) 04:48:44 [[Matrixfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87497&oldid=87496 * Heptor * (-137) /* Implementations */ 04:49:31 [[Matrixfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87498&oldid=87497 * Heptor * (+1) /* Implementation notes */ 04:50:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:51:56 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87499&oldid=87498 * Heptor * (+54) /* Syntax */ 04:53:04 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87500&oldid=87499 * Heptor * (-825) /* Implementation notes */ 04:53:55 [[Matrixfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87501&oldid=87500 * Heptor * (+111) /* Implementation notes */ 04:58:22 [[User:Heptor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87502 * Heptor * (+62) Created page with "hello i exist if you need me talk to me on discord: @balt#6423" 04:58:31 [[User:Heptor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87503&oldid=87502 * Heptor * (+1) 06:20:49 -!- src has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:09:10 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:21:55 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:05:13 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:07:57 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:33:25 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * UiOpL4504 * New user account 08:37:00 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87504&oldid=87457 * UiOpL4504 * (+76) 08:37:46 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87505&oldid=87504 * UiOpL4504 * (+79) 08:57:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:58:36 -!- immibis has joined. 09:29:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:55:49 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:12:25 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:12:07 -!- arseniiv has joined. 12:12:34 `? password 12:12:37 The password of the month is too long for this irc message 12:13:03 I seem to be back if someone wondered! 13:07:51 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:11:09 wb! 13:11:32 it has been quiet here 13:17:11 -!- src has joined. 13:18:02 -!- arseniiv has joined. 13:33:33 -!- riv has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:35:17 -!- riv has joined. 13:35:49 -!- riv has quit (Client Quit). 13:59:40 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:08:30 -!- Koen__ has joined. 14:10:52 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:18:27 -!- arseniiv has joined. 14:40:46 -!- delta23 has joined. 15:15:13 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:32:26 -!- arseniiv has joined. 16:02:30 -!- riv has joined. 16:03:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:39:40 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:56:41 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 16:56:46 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:11:56 -!- arseniiv has joined. 17:54:32 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dominicentek * uploaded "[[File:Keyboardsmash numbers.png]]" 17:58:37 -!- Koo has joined. 17:58:42 -!- Koo has left. 18:00:38 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87507&oldid=87495 * PixelatedStarfish * (+180) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:01:30 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87508&oldid=87507 * PixelatedStarfish * (+15) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:02:58 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87509&oldid=87508 * PixelatedStarfish * (+51) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:03:45 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87510&oldid=87509 * PixelatedStarfish * (+8) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:06:27 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87511&oldid=87510 * PixelatedStarfish * (-27) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:07:02 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87512&oldid=87511 * PixelatedStarfish * (-12) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:10:34 Hm. Is it just me, or could Broken Calculator be generalized? It doesn't seem like the underlying deterministic language has constructs which influence crash probability. 18:15:55 it might be interesting to generalize it in a way where you could reduce crash probability rapidly enough that it didn't reach 1 in the limit 18:16:08 Ha, yeah, thinking the same thing. 18:19:00 * APic grins magically. 18:21:57 a magical grin? like that of a Cheshire caRT? 18:21:59 a magical grin? like that of a Cheshire cat? 18:28:07 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87513&oldid=87512 * PixelatedStarfish * (+477) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:29:30 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87514&oldid=87513 * PixelatedStarfish * (+56) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:30:10 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87515&oldid=87514 * PixelatedStarfish * (-215) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 18:34:56 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87516&oldid=87515 * PixelatedStarfish * (+141) /* Crash Probability Formula */ 19:12:14 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87517&oldid=87516 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1322) 19:12:52 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87518&oldid=87517 * PixelatedStarfish * (-3) /* Instructions */ 19:14:02 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87519&oldid=87518 * PixelatedStarfish * (-151) 19:14:36 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87520&oldid=87519 * PixelatedStarfish * (+42) /* External Links */ 19:15:24 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87521&oldid=87520 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) 19:15:28 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 19:15:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:15:55 -!- hendursaga has joined. 19:16:17 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87522&oldid=87521 * PixelatedStarfish * (+32) 19:17:45 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87523&oldid=87141 * PixelatedStarfish * (+29) /* Esolangs */ 19:20:07 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87524&oldid=87523 * PixelatedStarfish * (+149) /* Broken Calculator */ 19:21:30 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87525&oldid=87522 * PixelatedStarfish * (+24) /* External Links */ 19:21:40 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87526&oldid=87525 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* External Links */ 19:21:47 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87527&oldid=87526 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */ 19:22:49 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87528&oldid=87527 * PixelatedStarfish * (+68) /* External Links */ 19:22:57 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87529&oldid=87528 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */ 19:23:05 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87530&oldid=87529 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */ 19:23:34 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87531&oldid=87530 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */ 19:25:23 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87532&oldid=87357 * PixelatedStarfish * (+164) /* BRASCA */ 19:36:28 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:42:59 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:43:24 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:44:16 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 19:50:30 What's the proper register for talking about this community? I wanted to say something like "our definition contrasts with the other wiki"; how should I say "our" and "the other wiki"? 19:51:55 -!- imode has joined. 19:54:24 I should think that you should mention what other wiki it is. 19:57:36 It's not always English Wikipedia? Which other wikis do we have configured? I'm happy to learn; I'm used to communities where "the other wiki" is always WP. 20:00:08 why not just name it wikipedia? it's clearer and shorter 20:05:48 yeah, esowiki and wikipedia 20:06:19 This isn't a Voldemort situation. 20:07:31 lol 20:09:09 (Which may be the case for some wikis that only exist because Wikipedia deletes the contest for lack of relevance... I think we're in agreement that esoteric programming languages are a fringe topic.) 20:09:18 contest -> contents 20:11:13 [[Functionality]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87533&oldid=87187 * Dominicentek * (-39) 20:12:44 I'm an inclusionist, so I don't really like that way of thinking about things. I think that wiki federation is more about diffusion of power and responsibility, since some topics can require specialized moderation approaches. 20:12:46 I guess we do say "the wiki" for esowiki here. 20:14:13 you don't like calling things by their name? 20:15:20 No, I mean that I disagree with the idea that it's okay for WP to delete lots of stuff, and that fringe wikis should therefore exist. 20:15:34 I have no problem talking about things using commonly-accepted names. I'm asking what those names are! 20:16:16 WP wants to be an online encyclopedia with trustworthy contents. You can't have that and free for all topic selection. Which is fine to me, there's plenty of other venues. So... definitely not my fight. 20:17:16 yeah, I don't want a disambiguation page on wikipedia for "the tin can" - "the tin can is an item that can be picked up in the kitchen of the restaurant in level 54 of some obscure video game" 20:17:54 but if there's a thisobscurevideogame.wiki.org then a "tin can_(item)" page is welcome 20:21:47 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 20:22:32 Going to be polite and assume that y'all have not actually seen how deletionism acts on WP. It's a censorship mechanism used by patrician administrators to avoid culturally-inconvenient topics at best, and to remove entire subcultures at worst. 20:22:58 NGL, your attitudes kind of destroyed my gumption. I'm going to go get some pizza and try again later. 20:25:35 ?! 20:25:35 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 20:26:03 I guess I'm sorry for not sharing your hostility towards Wikipedia?! This took a really strange turn... 20:31:11 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87534&oldid=87531 * PixelatedStarfish * (+43) /* External Links */ 20:31:33 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87535&oldid=87534 * PixelatedStarfish * (+26) /* External Links */ 20:31:43 int-e: Esolang is at least partially a method of giving somewhere to put esolang articles that are unacceptable for Wikipedia 20:32:11 this arrangement seems, in practice, to be beneficial to everyone involved (Esolang, Wikipedia, and people interested in the language) 20:34:14 [[Broken Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87536&oldid=87535 * PixelatedStarfish * (+353) 20:36:12 Heh I didn't even know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language ...obviously one could argue at length about which languages should have the privilege of being listed there 20:37:39 But it has a pretty good list of early and influential ones, I think. 20:42:18 ais523: Anyway, I agree that it's a good arrangement, and my impression is that for the most part, people are happy with it. *shrugs* 20:43:52 this page is awful in so many ways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages_by_type 20:44:35 "curly-bracked languages" :D 20:49:34 it's a good arrangement, but I'm also glad that at least a few occasionally chunks of junk get deleted from the esowiki too. I just looked up one of the notorious ones that was there for at least a year, and I'm delighted to see it gone. 20:50:18 trivial brainfuck substitutes? 20:50:22 but the standard is very low 20:50:41 myname: no no, it has to be actively bad to get deleted, not just useless and uninspired 20:55:43 heh, category Uninspired language 20:58:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_BASIC 21:01:27 https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2021/08/19/undecidable-translational-tilings-with-only-two-tiles-or-one-nonabelian-tile/ I probably linked this already 21:03:02 if I take some another language with long arithmetics to implement RASEL, which one should I choose? 21:03:12 looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_arbitrary-precision_arithmetic_software 21:04:10 didn't know there are so many llbs for c/c++ 21:04:23 nakilon: what is your goal with the implementation? do you wish it to be fast, or portable and easy to distribute? 21:05:16 b_jonas the goal is speed 21:05:42 speed for usually large numbers, or speed for when the numbers are usually small? 21:05:43 for distribution ruby gem is already good enough 21:05:55 hm 21:06:01 when small 21:08:02 for large numbers, http://mpir.org/ is usually the best (it's forked from GMP and gives mostly the same interface), but its docs recommend you to wrap around it if your numbers are usually small (the original purpose was probably at least partly cryptography, which explains optimizing over large fixed size numbers); alternatives include https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/release/libs/multiprecision/ which 21:08:08 has three backends including GMP, https://www.libtom.net/ which is educational and not too optimized, and https://bellard.org/softfp/ which is Fabrice Bellard's so you know what to expect 21:09:38 oh, and there's also GP/PARI's library I think, plus many language interpreters including Python and Ruby and ghc (for Haskell) come with a bignum library 21:11:38 more or less every high level language has one thrown in these days, though of course sometimes they use one of the previous ones as a backend 21:16:02 I'm thinking about Crystal, C, C#, Zig 21:16:57 I have no idea what Crystal is 21:18:27 it's like Ruby but LLVM 21:18:28 GMP has at least one wrapper to just about any language you can think of from its native C interface, sometimes multiple wrappers 21:18:58 it can be as fast as C basically 21:19:33 the difference from Ruby is that you have to declare types ahead, at least it was like that some years ago 21:20:01 in what way is it like Ruby? 21:20:37 it was the initial idea to have the same syntax 21:22:24 weird 21:26:13 -!- river has joined. 21:29:13 -!- riv has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:33:05 or maybe I should try truffleruby first if it's already usable enough 21:33:25 berry in August? no way. wait for next spring or summer. 21:34:02 https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks 21:41:16 I think most recent practical languages have bignum ability in their standard library or their package manager, although some of the bignum packages are of dubious quality (not in terms of accuracy, but in terms of performance or features) 21:43:24 well yes, if you include package manager, you always find mostly bad packages 21:44:05 "Colobot: Gold Edition - alpha 0.2.0 released yesterday" 21:44:26 the hard part is finding the good packages, and knowing when to give up and just write your own 21:52:04 (and by write your own, I mean write your own wrapper around an existing good quality library obviously, not invent your own wheel for every language) 22:01:15 well, integrating well with the language's type system is often a major feature for me 22:01:18 and that can be hard to wrap 22:02:01 one of my major concerns about Rust's pure-Rust bignum package, apart from the size of bignum objects, is that it's bad at mixing signed bigints and unsigned bigints 22:02:22 yes, it varies a lot 22:02:44 some libraries are trivial to wrap, others are almost impossible 22:03:22 and yes, it depends on the language too 22:06:10 I wonder if the rust type system is now strong enough that you could write a library like eigen (which is in C++) in it, but there's no way you can just do a straightforward port 22:14:19 -!- immibis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:25:37 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:27:50 -!- hendursaga has joined. 22:56:54 [[Special:Interwiki]] seems disabled somehow? Is there a public list of interwiki prefixes? 22:58:56 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:00:08 it might just not be installed? 23:00:12 Corbin: https://esolangs.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=info&meta=siteinfo&format=xmlfm&siprop=general|namespaces|namespacealiases|interwikimap|specialpagealiases|magicwords 23:00:16 I think we use the default MediaWiki list of interwiki prefixes, though 23:00:25 of which wikipedia: is the only one people use in practice 23:01:04 also, that URL for OEIS looks really odd 23:01:46 Are there any interesting distributed systems sorts of esolangs? 23:01:59 https://esolangs.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=info&meta=siteinfo&format=xmlfm&siprop=interwikimap should be a list of just the interwikis 23:03:11 I think there may be some languages designed for programming games that run in a distributed sort of way 23:03:23 b_jonas, ais523: Impressive technique. Bookmarked, thanks. 23:03:43 but I can't think of much that works in a delay-insensitive way (which is normally important for distributed programming) 23:04:08 cellular automata are pretty similar to distributed systems, but they typically rely on lock-step to work correctly 23:04:57 incidentally, I was once designing a version of cyclic tag with multiple queues, which effectively ran on different threads, but never got around to finishing it – that was fairly similar to a distributed system 23:05:03 (it was intended to compile into something, but I forget what) 23:05:21 [[Concatenative language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87537 * Corbin * (+1375) Break ground on an important esolang concept which is poorly-handled by existing wikis. 23:06:29 -!- vyv has joined. 23:06:56 Corbin: I agree we need an article about that, but what you've written so far isn't good at expressing the concept – the example isn't even concatentative 23:07:07 the important definition is that program concatenation is function composition 23:07:45 what you're writing about is just composability, which is also important, but there are ways to do that other than being concatenative 23:09:07 hmm, that concatenative wiki is missing Underload, so I'm not sure I can take it seriously [add appropriate emoticon here, I'm not sure which one to use offhand but this sentence feels like it needs one] 23:12:54 ais523: Please be patient; I am writing each section one-at-a-time because I don't like losing lots of progress. 23:13:16 The important definition is the Von Thun one, with monoid homomorphisms, but we have to work up to that. 23:14:03 ah, fair enough 23:14:07 maybe I'd rename "introduction" to "background" 23:15:34 ais523: Yes, I mean asynchronous systems in particular. 23:15:59 Currently working on "classical theory". After that is a yet-untitled section on Von Thun's results, but gently enough to not make people drown in category theory. Finally, I want "modern generalizations" so that I can document interesting stuff unique to our study, like 2D langs. 23:15:59 Including individual node failures and so on. 23:16:55 I think that's a niche enough area that either a) there are no esolangs in that area, or b) every language in that area is automatically an esolang 23:16:59 and I'm not entirely sure which 23:17:07 ais523: Selfishly, I want at least enough on this page so that I could mindlessly tell you whether [[Cammy]] is concatenative. 23:17:09 I went to a neighborhood free book giveaway yesterday and there was a book about categorical type theory 23:17:17 was slightly surprised but not that surprised, this is san francisco 23:17:25 i didn't grab it though 23:17:42 i got a book about digital filter design which was sadly lacking the included 5.25" diskette with source code 23:17:55 now i'll have to type it in from the book 23:18:00 Well, I'd be interested in non-esolangs in that area too, I guess! 23:18:15 "the important definition is that program concatenation is function composition" hmm. is there a terminology for languages where if you concatenate two programs, then the resuling program performs all the side effects (including interactive IO) of the first one, then of the second one, like eg. brainfuck where the tape is not guaranteed to be initialized to zeros? 23:19:00 There's heavyweight terminology, invoking what's known as "native type theory", but if I have to use that then I've probably failed. 23:19:32 shachaf: my previous job was in that area, but it was mostly in terms of implementing things at the library level, and I didn't learn much in terms of languages for the purpose (we were using general-purpose languages, not languages designed for distributed programming) 23:19:32 I'm mostly asking because Consumer society programs can be concatenated like that 23:20:24 b_jonas: I think most imperative languages allow that sort of program concatenation (barring questions about when the main program runs), although it probably isn't unique to imperative languages 23:21:20 the company's aim/thesis/goal was to prove that a special language wasn't necessary for that sort of thing, so we didn't spend that much effort on looking for one 23:21:25 ais523: What sorts of things in that area? 23:21:54 I was implementing the runtime support to allow programs to transparently access data on other machines, call stacks to span multiple machines, etc. 23:22:08 ais523: yes, many imperative languages allow that, though C doesn't 23:22:12 Oh, I see, running unmodified programs. 23:22:15 That sounds tricky. 23:22:16 right 23:23:10 hmm, are there languages which let you define functions multiple times and the definitions get concatenated? that seems like it might be useful for literate programming 23:23:25 Prolog's syntax and semantics would both let you do that, except that there's a specific rule that you aren't allowed to 23:23:41 (I think there might be a pragma to allow it?) 23:23:51 ais523: hmm 23:24:09 interesting idea 23:24:15 Consumer Society can't allow that 23:24:46 but I think there must be some language (possibly esoteric) that's based on hooks or gosub-come-froms that might allow it 23:24:54 what are those called? sub from? 23:25:05 in INTERCAL, NEXT FROM, but I think it's a nonstandard name 23:25:07 no, probably no 23:25:12 if it were a standard name, it would need to be renamed 23:25:26 I'm more interested in programs and semantics that are suited for a distributed environment and take advantage of it than pretending it doesn't exist. 23:26:12 also, if you have two NEXT FROMs aiming at the same line in INTERCAL, the two subroutines run in parallel (and if they both return, the subsequent code runs twice in parallel – this is arguably a bug) 23:27:03 shachaf: I understand; unfortunately I'm not sure I can help because I don't have much experience in that direction, even though I was working in the field 23:27:21 I think there might be some GUI widget libraries where if you register two callbacks to an event, both get called in sequence 23:27:23 I vaguely remember various forms of calculus based on Greek letters other than lambda 23:27:45 oh yeah, I know what I recall this from 23:28:04 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A0-calculus for example 23:28:09 maybe that would be a good starting point? 23:28:20 -!- V has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:28:34 but, I don't think it's exactly what you're looking for 23:29:33 b_jonas: I think Java works like that, but am not sure, they might run in parallel 23:29:34 One big difference between multithreading on one computer and distributed systems is that failures are expected in the latter case. 23:29:46 I think Pi-calculus types of things don't account for that too much. 23:30:04 if you're using a sufficiently pure language, you can just retry 23:30:28 Well, you might want guarantees of systemwide progress even if any particular node fails. 23:30:32 javascript's https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Promise can call multiple handlers 23:30:52 you can register a handler, and if you register multiple, they're call called when the promise is fulfilled 23:33:55 also https://nodejs.org/dist/latest-v16.x/docs/api/events.html#events_events can have multiple callbacks 23:34:46 heck, atexit in C can register multiple functions and all of them get called one after the other 23:35:14 but of course that's just one (or a few) stack of callbacks, not any number of user-defined functions behaving this way 23:35:27 Prolog has both assert/assertz and asserta 23:36:02 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87538&oldid=87462 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* B */ Language 23:36:11 and I think you can even inject cases into the middle of a predicate, although that involves more than a simple library predicate call 23:37:59 yeah 23:44:16 Mathematica and I think Maple allows you to define cases for a function in multiple different places of the source code with other definitions in between, the way that would be natural in prolog or perhaps in haskell but is not allowed. in all of these, cases will match by default so another definition won't be tried unless you specifically fail, but that's already true for prolog. 23:44:57 normally the cases are distinguished by different patterns for their arguments, but the pattern matching is powerful enough to do anything including side effects of course 23:46:00 hmm, that's an interesting point; I think Prolog's pattern matching does *not* allow side effects (or indeed function calls generally) 23:46:24 IIRC Rust allows side effects in match guards but not on the patterns themselves 23:46:57 although, pattern matching in Rust is a pain to define formally/comprehensively because the language allows insane definitions of == 23:47:02 ais523: yes, but in prolog you can fail from the body 23:47:09 I don't know if you can fail from the body of a Mathematica function 23:47:14 you probably can 23:47:32 right, I think that's why Prolog doesn't bother with function calls in patterns, because you can retroactively unmatch the pattern later on 23:47:58 ais523: that's more like because prolog also doesn't bother with function calls in expressions 23:48:19 wait, does Rust pattern matching invoke the overloaded ==? 23:48:25 I thought it was only structural 23:48:36 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 23:49:16 keegan: it doesn't, but the semantics are designed such that you can't use it at the same time as an overloaded == 23:49:17 (plus boolean guards) 23:49:28 to avoid confusion about whether it would invoke it or not 23:49:34 what do you mean 23:49:45 [[Concatenative language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87539&oldid=87537 * Corbin * (+2145) Explain the classical and categorical theories. 23:49:52 #[derive(Eq)] implements an unsafe trait that you can't safely implement any other way 23:49:56 and pattern matching needs that trait to work 23:50:04 ais523: but rust now has pattern guards as part of patterns now, don't they? I'm not quite sure, I don't follow what exactly they did there 23:50:13 oh, weird 23:50:15 that must be new-ish 23:50:41 hmm, this is for matching constants only, it seems 23:50:55 matching enum variants, etc., doesn't use Eq and you can use any enum you want 23:51:24 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/31434 23:52:10 still unstable, so very new 23:52:20 I have been learning Rust in a kind-of weird order, stumbling over parts of it, of various newness, at random 23:52:46 ah 23:53:31 no, I'm wrong. rust added *alternatives* in patterns, but match guards (which can contain arbitrary code to decide if the pattern matches) can still only go to top level, not into patterns 23:54:01 I think right now, my primary languages for writing programs that are intended to do something are Rust and Perl 23:54:10 (it used to be a mix of C and Perl, but Rust has displaced the C) 23:54:19 ais523: LMK how feel I could improve. I need to survey the various langs on our wiki which call themselves concatenative and see if there's anything notable that needs to be discussed or explained. 23:55:03 I think it's probably worth discussing row polymorphism, but I'm not an expert on the subject 23:55:47 (if I understand it correctly, and I might not, it's a way to have typed concatenative stack-based languages using functions that are polymorphic over the unexamined parts of the stack) 23:56:15 although Wikipedia's definition implies it's more general than that, I first came across it in the concatenative contextt 23:56:52 I think the page is in a usable, if somewhat, barebones state at the moment 23:56:57 * usable, if somewhat barebones, 2021-08-23: 00:00:46 Yeah, it's definitely skeletal. 00:01:06 ais523: perhaps one of the languages that are specialized for programming MUDs or text adventure games have all function definitions work in an event handler way that concatenates multiple handlers 00:01:40 Yes, row polymorphism is intimately connected to the typical stack-based Forth desendant. IIRC Factor's type system is effectively just higher-order row-polymorphic signatures. 00:05:32 "skeletal" still reminds me of how Hollow Dogs the M:tG card still hasn't been errataed to have the Skeleton creature type 00:06:27 give me my Phyrexian Zombie Skeleton Dogs already, Wizards 00:06:41 (this line is to preempt any Changeling joke) 00:06:48 I mostly use C for my own programs (I dislike some of the features of some of the programming languages intended to be a replacement for C), but sometimes I will use PostScript, or others 00:07:15 A hollow dog is never empty. It is filled with thirst for the hunt. 00:11:57 [[Category theory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87540&oldid=74393 * Corbin * (+632) Give a couple ways to apply category theory to programming language theory. 00:20:17 zzo38: I wonder what your opinion on zig is. it seems like it's trying to be for C what Rust is for C++, and I think it's doing that pretty well 00:21:00 though I guess their selling point of trying to provide a sane (Zig AND C AND C++) compiler package for Windows isn't a selling point for you 00:22:42 I guess my opinion is that making a better C is incredibly easy, the issue is trying to make a C that's better *enough* for people to use it 00:23:02 for me, Rust is better by enough to be worth changing my main systems language 00:23:22 ais523: and providing a sane compiler environment for Windows, which is something we're lacking right now, is a good way of doing that 00:23:42 like, I download the package to get a C++ compiler for windows, and get curious what else is there 00:24:10 it's like git, which provides a vim port and a terminal for windows, you install it, and wonder what the version control thing that the distribution is named of is about 00:24:10 I normally use Strawberry Perl if I want a C compiler for Windows (there's one bundled in with it) 00:24:26 ais523: does it have a C++ compiler? 00:24:31 also I don't think that's what made git popular 00:24:35 b_jonas: I'm not sure, but probably 00:24:37 also thanks for that recommendation, I might look at it 00:24:57 ais523: no, it didn't. the Linux kernel versioned with it did, sadly 00:24:59 it's basically just gcc with competent packaging 00:25:14 ais523: yes, and that's the hard part. Zig distributes a clang with competent packaging. 00:25:32 I agree that competent packaging is the hard part, especially on Windows 00:25:36 that's how you get a good C++ compiler, more so than trying to implement one from scratch 00:26:18 there used to be https://www.msys2.org/ which provides a gcc, but it's not been updated for years now 00:28:12 hehe, https://scryfall.com/card/ice/137/kjeldoran-dead was originally printed as a Dead, while https://scryfall.com/card/all/55b/lim-d%C3%BBls-high-guard as a Skeleton. they really didn't know how to use creature types back then. 00:28:21 Windows is a moving target (although not to the extent Mac OS X is), it's a pain to keep things updated there 00:29:01 yes, it's definitely not an easy task 00:29:14 the situation with the standard libraries is especially disappointing 00:29:23 (Dimir House Guard is a rare armored skeleton) 00:29:51 (there's a libc bundled with Windows but it's nonstandard and your aren't officially supposed to use it; there are also libcs bundled with MSVC which are more standards-compliant, but are licensed in such a way that you can't use them as the libc for an open-source compiler) 00:30:29 (and the raw system calls aren't supposed to be exposed to applications – although some applications are using them anyway, it seems – so writing your own libc from scratch is also very difficult) 00:32:14 wait 00:32:26 you can't use MSVC as the libc as an open-source compiler? 00:32:38 as opposed to just with gcc because of gcc's GPL license or something? 00:33:04 not even if you have to install the library separately, it's not distributed with the compiler toolkit? 00:34:07 I forget the exact license terms, but I know they prevent that working somehow 00:34:15 (not that I think GPL would forbid that, but just in case) 00:34:43 I know MS has some licences where you can't redistribute the library or font, but if you download it directly from Microsoft, you can use it 00:36:01 but that doesn't apply to the part of the library that wraps syscalls to Windows API calls, right? just the part that's trying to be a C standard library? 00:39:15 this is horrible, I've been on Microsoft's website for about 10 minutes now and still can't find the EULA for these things 00:39:28 I even found a download page, but the license isn't specified on the download page itself 00:40:06 one of the pages I found suggested installing Visual Studio to view the license 00:40:59 I found links to webpages that were supposed to contain the license terms, but they didn't 00:41:26 also, they're the same library 00:42:34 ais523: I just want a "better C" that's better enough that I can use it. 00:43:13 Rust seems much more like "better C++" to me, and I that's not really the style of language I want. 00:44:13 fair enough; I think that's a fair assessment of the language 00:44:24 I would probably have been using C++ already if I thought it was better enough than C, but I didn't 00:47:47 ooh, this is new: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/windows/universal-crt-deployment?view=msvc-160 00:47:53 Windows finally has a centralised C runtime! 00:48:55 2015, so more recently than I last looked at this nonsense 00:52:58 ais523: what does "centralized C runtime" mean? I seem to recall they introduced an ABI stable between MSVC releases around that point 00:55:05 b_jonas: the C runtime is installed with/by the OS, rather than being installed along with every C program you want to run on you rcomputer 00:55:47 for a while, Windows was using a hybrid model in which the C runtime was installed by installers for the various C programs you installed on your computer, but into a location that Windows Update knew about, and it kept it updated once it was there 00:55:54 but just having one copy that's kept updated by the OS makes a lot more sense 01:25:49 I think one of the worst things about C is the confusing syntax for types. Although, there are also many features that I like about C that the other ones are not doing. 01:26:53 One thing I like about C is the macros, and also that it doesn't use Unicode 01:29:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:37:59 It had a secret mini-CRT for a long time, right? 01:38:18 Apparently since Windows 98 or so? 01:38:25 I mean msvcrt.dll. 01:38:54 ais523: I thought that was always the model, but you didn't get a libc newer than the Windows version that way, while programs wanted to work on older versions of Windows, so they installed the libc anyway 01:39:36 and since like Windows 7, Windows update installs future versions of the runtime too in updates 01:39:48 shachaf: yes, it was used internally by the OS 01:39:52 but this is just a vague impression, it's probably not accurate 01:40:11 and was very similar to a libc, but had a few bizarre differences, just different enough to break C programs that weren't aware of them 01:40:32 I think the most famous is snprintf returning 0 if the number of characters which would be printed were too long for the buffer 01:40:36 or maybe -1 01:41:21 somewhere I have an snprintf wrapper that allocated a larger buffer and tries again if snprintf returns an impossible value, so that it'll work with msvcrt.dll 01:41:52 (obviously, having snprintf return the expected buffer length itself is much more useful…) 01:43:49 whereas the MSVC library has a version that prints floating point numbers in a way that doesn't match C99 or gnu libc, and since implementing formatting floating point is so hard, a lot of programs use it as the backend for formatting floats, sometimes even with a fixup to print floating point numbers the usual way 01:44:08 usual for C99 that is, Windows libc might have priority 01:44:54 it's so odd, I wish the libc makers could cooperate to fix this somehow, like by introducing a low-level function that formats floats always in the unix/C99 way 01:45:07 it doesn't even have to be a full printf function 01:45:07 I think libc should be split into two parts 01:45:25 one of which just does system calls / OS interaction with minimal logic (only just enough to smooth out differences between OSes) 01:45:30 and the other part is platform-independent 01:45:43 of course if they do it now, it will only get a use ten years later, but software developers don't have term limits and regular elections 01:45:59 it's weird that if you want, say, a portable fopen(), you also need to pull in a strlen() too 01:46:53 at a previous job, my boss asked me why his Haskell program was getting affected by libc buffering when it wasn't written in C 01:47:17 I had to explain that most programming languages went via C to interface with the operating system because it's simpler than writing code to interface with every operating system yourself 01:47:18 . o O ( should software developers also be changed like diapers? ) 01:47:31 (and politicians) 01:48:14 * oerjan gets a deja vu about ais523's last anecdote 01:48:29 oerjan: do you mean changed that frequently, or changed when they stink, or treated as identical throwaway ones? 01:48:54 Go is a notable exception 01:49:01 well for politicians, ALL OF THE ABOVE obviously 01:49:47 also Rust makes it pretty easy to use a statically linked musl instead of system libc 01:50:08 huh, I just realised that I don't know how stdbuf worked 01:50:26 I assumed it did something to the file handle at the OS level, but that doesn't make sense because stdio buffering is a libc thing, not an OS thing 01:50:50 for developers, i may not have been entirely serious. 01:51:24 huh i didn't know about stdbuf until just now 01:51:27 I just looked at the source: it's an LD_PRELOAD trick 01:51:30 i assume it... yeah 01:51:38 so presumably it's replacing parts of stdio 01:51:50 either shim the libc functions or just insert some code which calls whatever libc functions set the buffer mode 01:52:20 NOTE: If COMMAND adjusts the buffering of its standard streams ('tee' does for example) then that will override corresponding changes by 'stdbuf'. Also some filters (like 'dd' and 'cat' etc.) don't use streams for I/O, and are thus unaffected by 'stdbuf' settings. 01:52:51 hmm 01:52:59 I hadn't heard of stdbuf until today 01:53:29 why isn't that done with libc supporting it directly somehow so that stdbuf just has to pass it the information somewhere? 01:53:50 I mean on Linux at least 01:54:02 with some sorts of input and output filehandles, pv doesn't actually do any reading and writing at all, just tells the kernel to move information around internally and counts how much information moved 01:54:20 what is pv? 01:54:34 b_jonas: would have to be an environment variable, I think, and having lots of undocumented environment variables is a security risk 01:54:37 pv measures the speed of a pipe 01:54:50 like, counts the bytes going through 01:55:13 basically cat with a progress bar 01:57:47 ais523: that's true, though LD_PRELOAD env-var is documented in ld.so(8), TERMINFO_DIRS is docuemnted in terminfo(5), LOCPATH is documented in locale(7), and all those are security risks. 01:58:09 I wonder if there is some better way to pass that information for stdbuf that is less of a security risk 01:58:26 but I'm not sure what it could be 01:59:23 I think it'd have to be some sort of fcntl that only existed for stdio's benefit 01:59:29 a "suggested buffering behaviour" or such 01:59:34 I don't think there's a way to create a kernel level file description that behaves like a normal one in general but has some auxiliary information that the child can extract. 01:59:41 ais523: yeah 01:59:51 or more likely a general one to attach hints 02:01:16 I had before had a few different ideas which can be used for this 02:01:23 (other uses are also possible) 02:01:41 I guess you could use a lopp device, that can wrap some existing file descriptors, though perhaps not all types that are readable or writable 02:02:22 that couldn't remove buffering, only add it (unless stdio knew that writes to that sort of loop device shouldn't be buffered) 02:02:24 except I think that's super-user only 02:02:39 ais523: no, I mean you could more easily attach hint information to that 02:02:56 and since it's a device, it will be unbuffered by default 02:03:10 or wait 02:03:16 is that only char devices, not block devices? 02:03:53 the problem with using devices for this is that they need device numbers, which are in limited supply 02:04:22 also I thought it was specifically ttys that had weird buffering behaviour, but even then, writes to ttys are line-buffered by stdio 02:04:58 One idea might be if the C library would read a environment variable and set them (unless overridden), but then the C library must be written to take advantage of that. There is also the case of file descriptors; possibly allowing file descriptors to be attached somehow (and for this attachment to be visible in /proc) 02:05:10 not even that. libc docs says "Newly opened streams are normally fully buffered, with one exception: initially line buffered." 02:05:31 ais523: yes, specifically terminal devices 02:07:27 well this stdbuf is an esoteric hack I guess, one that you hopefully don't need because programs where you may want to change the buffering have that built-in as an option 02:09:29 it's a handy hack to know 02:09:42 now i'm wondering if it could generalize to some 'run these libc calls before main()' type of wrapper 02:09:47 which could actually probably be a gdb script 02:10:38 Free Hero Mesh does flush or disable buffering in some cases in order to allow ts to be used to time parts of the program. 02:10:49 btw I dreamt of a kernel feature where there's a Linux namespace such that different namespaces can have different wall clocks, differing not just in the timezone (which is mainly a user-space thing and can already be overridden with an env-var) but different offset and speed correction and even different idea of which months have leap seconds. this would probably be more esoteric than useful. 02:11:08 there is an old libc hack to try to convince a process that the time is what you say it is 02:11:21 was this from an actual dream 02:11:29 keegan: more like a daydream 02:11:38 but it's so old that I think it predates clock_gettime 02:12:06 this would be useful for running programs reproducibly 02:12:19 I think I saw once a program that can do that, and I think that the system emulation interface should be designed to allow this including stealthy. 02:12:22 ais523: perhaps, but it's not really enough for that 02:12:22 although I think leap seconds are mostly handled in userspace? 02:12:46 ais523: yes, I think they're handled by the same daemon that synchronizes time to NTP 02:12:51 on Linux that is 02:13:08 I don't think the kernel knows about them 02:13:20 but I could be wrong here 02:14:14 running programs reproducibly is really hard these days if you want any kind of performance 02:15:00 because the CPU itself doesn't aim to run things completely reproducibly 02:15:12 Swiss Ephemeris has its own handling of leap seconds (since it is necessary to know about past and future leap seconds), in order to convert between UTC and ephemeris time 02:15:39 It is something I thought of, design the CPU instruction set with the idea that you can run programs completely reproducibly 02:17:19 zzo38: perhaps a CPU could provide such a mode, but it's not easy 02:17:27 I think on modern x86, the vast majority of commands are intended to be reproducible in register/memory effect, if not timing 02:17:43 and most of the others have options to disable them or emulate in software 02:18:00 the main lack of reproducibility comes to things like the sequence in which multiple threads are interleaved 02:19:13 ais523: perhaps, but there are all sorts of ways to leak informaton about caching and timing and speculation, some of them deliberately intended for measuring performance and microoptimzing your code, some just incidentally exposing something like the software transactional memory instructions which are used to implement mutexes and the like, and you can just ask for the time or randomness deliberately 02:20:04 and the OS not being reproducible adds to that cake, because a program can tell if a page is swapped in or not if it wants to 02:20:07 and more 02:21:27 RDTSC and RDRAND can both be switched off I think 02:21:44 and most (but probably not all) of the side-channels come down to timing 02:24:18 Including fake timing if needed, and designing the rest of the system to support this too, including the BIOS. Also excluding much of the complexity of modern systems, such as out of order execution, automatic caching, etc 02:24:31 I did sort of wonder what it would take to make an interpreter that aims to be reproducible, even on different hardware, slower than native code but still performant enough. Mostly for the purpose of being able to run user-submitted code like bfjoust and get a deterministic result. The hard part is that need to decide when the code is terminated with a timeout, reproducibly and without overhead, without 02:24:36 assuming that every single memory access has to go to the main memory without caches. 02:25:45 ais523: can the OS disable software transactional memory? all debugging and peformance thingies? checking what pages are swapped in is fixable if you don't allow swapping any of the pages I guess. 02:26:31 performance counters and debugging variables can definitely be made inaccessible from userspace (in fact, I think they are by default, and gdb has to ask the kernel to set the debugging variables for it) 02:27:12 software transactional memory, I'm not sure on, IIRC the current Intel implementation is buggy anyway and so it gets switched off entirely in BIOS or microcode or somewhere like that 02:27:19 (not sure if they've fixed it yet) 02:27:47 hmm 02:28:30 zzo38: out of order execution is interesting, in that it's in theory possible to write programs to not need it simply by reordering the commands, but modern processors pretty much have to implement it so that compilers don't need to generate specific code for every processor model 02:29:13 ais523: what do you do with detecting what's in the various code caches using ill-advised self-modifying code? 02:29:16 as for caching, processors would probably be faster with manual caching in many cases 02:29:18 oh wait, that might not work 02:29:28 b_jonas: that causes a machine nuke nowadays if you try to do it 02:29:30 hmm 02:29:32 very slow, but deterministic 02:29:58 yeah, on x86 it's probably deterministic enough 02:30:03 (where by "very slow" I mean tens of processor cycles, plus however long it takes to re-fetch the code from memory, so not all that slow in an absolute sense) 02:30:14 (at least for things that you can do in userspace) 02:31:15 interesting, this makes it sound less hopeless than I thought 02:31:21 I don't know whether verr/verw (the "check which pages are swapped in" commands) are disabled 02:31:38 * can be disabled 02:31:39 ais523: you can just disable caching for that 02:31:41 they are used very rarely, tohugh 02:32:02 um 02:32:03 also, swapping is under kernel control (not processor control), so you could just swap deterministically if you wanted to 02:32:04 disable swapping 02:32:13 you can actually disable caching 02:32:17 you probably shouldn't, but it's *possible* 02:32:25 yes, but here I meant disable swapping 02:33:08 one thing that is missing in the x86 instruction set is a way to tell it "I'm no longer using this memory and don't care if you put arbitrary data in it" 02:33:24 this would be useful to let it know that it doesn't have to write its caches back to memory 02:33:37 yeah 02:33:40 (although it would provide side-channel opportunities) 02:33:42 well 02:34:03 I guess there's INVD but that affects all memory on the entire system, which isn't the most useful operation :-D 02:34:12 (and it's ring 0 for obvious reasons) 02:35:34 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:35:50 that doesn't seem like a thing you'd often want to do 02:35:58 I mean for all memory in the system 02:36:07 for a specific cache line it would be useful 02:39:26 it doesn't seem useful to me either 02:41:01 there is a way to disable RDTSC, but can you disable RDRAND or RDSEED in a sane way? 02:41:39 hmm, maybe not 02:42:13 there's probably some insane way to disable it, intended only for debugging or performance monitoring or virtual machines or reflushing the BIOS 02:42:33 "rdrand" doesn't appear anywhere in the documentation of the various processor bits that can be messed with by the OS 02:42:46 although, this is some fairly old docs I'm looking at 02:42:52 (I grepped it, didn't search manually) 02:44:43 presumably you'd also have to make sure the program isn't interrupted by signals in a nondeterministic way, and terminated on some fatal conditions like segfaults 02:45:07 signals generated by the processor are very, very deterministic on x86 02:45:24 to the extent that it's documented which order they get delivered in if multiple signals are generated simultaneously 02:45:27 and even then I wonder if there might be detectable side-effects from hardware interrupts that aren't related to the process at all 02:45:51 hardware interrupts relative to software execution are a lot less deterministic, obviously 02:46:06 ais523: yes, but only if the signals are triggered at exactly the same time, which you can't do if you want to allow the underlying process to have varying timing 02:47:36 well, it matters if they're triggered by the same instruction 02:48:18 a common example is simultaneous page fault and general protection fault, if a userspace program tries to use a kernelspace command on memory it can't access 02:48:30 well, not common, I doubt that happens in practice very often 02:48:40 hmm, maybe that's not too serious and they don't have detectable side effects in your user program if you're careful 02:48:41 but common in that it doesn't take much setup and there are lots of ways to do it 03:02:53 I didn't like there are too many functions for making new file descriptors, and I would remove most of them; for many cases openat can be used, and sometimes newfd. (This simplifies overriding them or recording the used file descriptors, and other things too) 03:09:42 what is newfd? I don't have a manual page for it 03:10:17 at least there isn't a creatat (openat can do the same thing) 03:19:47 It is my own idea; it causes the next file descriptor to use the specified number (even if it is already in use) instead of assigning one automatically 04:14:49 I don't think that's thread-safe, because another thread might open an FD in between the newfd and openat calls 04:15:28 maybe the desired FD number should be an argument to openat? 04:15:47 (alternatively, you could go the other way, where FD numbers don't follow any pattern at all and are arbitrary; this is what WebAssembly does) 04:27:33 That seems like a good way to me. 04:27:46 It's what Windows does, I guess. How does Windows handle standard descriptors like stdout? 04:44:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:44:57 I think being able to override specific existing file descriptors is useful. Although, making it a argument of openat (and -1 meaning automatic) will work too. 04:44:59 the libc file descriptor layer maps the stdin, stdout, and stderr file handles (which can be retrieved from GetStdHandle()) to file descriptors 0, 1, and 2 04:45:29 -!- citrons has joined. 04:45:37 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 04:45:37 -!- citrons_ has quit (*.net *.split). 04:45:40 GetStdHandle, got it. 04:45:43 (since on Windows, file descriptors aren't an OS-level feature at all, they're just an API that libc implements on top of the Win32 API) 04:46:17 Sure, I didn't mean file descriptors, I meant how you get the handle to stdout at all. 04:46:40 ah, fair 04:46:40 I guess GetCurrentProcess is similarly a way to get a handle to the current process. 04:46:48 yep 04:46:57 So you just have known calls that get handles. That seems fine. 04:47:17 It probably makes sense to have handles be arbitrary, and then have special ways to get special ones. 04:47:48 it is the typical windows thing -- rather than having fixed constants or parameters to main or globals or something, you've got functions that retrieve opaque handles you can operate on 04:48:11 Seems fine to me. 04:48:13 to be entirely fair, while it is weird to me coming from a unix mindset, it is not at all an unreasonable way of doing things 04:48:16 You could also have a known region of memory. 04:48:19 It's not all that weird. 04:48:27 It's like auxvals in Linux for instance. 04:48:41 You could imagine having the file descriptors for in/out/err stored there. 04:48:49 i also think those are weird :p 04:48:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:50 -!- Riviera has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:58 -!- Riviera_ has joined. 04:49:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:49:46 * pikhq shrugs 04:49:56 All of them? 04:51:07 auxvals as a concept, yeah. it's just a slightly odd additional mechanism, although i understand exactly why you'd do it 04:51:44 How about argv and envp? 04:53:25 I think probably the requested number (or -1) as the argument of openat is probably good. Also you can have POSIX compatibility (in the C standard library) in this way, and can make new specific numbes if you need that for some reason passing between programs, too. (Maybe it could also be usable for argv and envp too; I don't know) 04:53:53 the thing that makes auxvals kinda weird (at least to me) is that they aren't parameters to main() but they are parameters to _start 04:54:29 Oh, well, main is a nonsense lie. 04:54:49 I did say Linux, so the ABI I have in mind is the one the kernel sets up. 04:55:03 i know that main isn't the actual entry point, but it is the actual API contract :P 04:55:20 although to be sure the ELF entry point is also a hard API contract 04:55:34 Statically linked programs are where it's at. 04:56:06 main is a libc API, and I'm not a big fan of libc. 04:56:10 (and even a portable one! this isn't Linux-specific, it's an ELF thing!) 04:57:16 it is but you're gonna have a hard time using any external libraries without libc (and writing to the raw Linux syscall interface has some really counterintuitive edge cases if you're more familiar with POSIX semantics) 04:58:04 of course, if you actually are static linked, you are probably in sufficient control of what you depend on that you can just... not worry about that 04:58:56 The only external libraries I'm worried about are things like OpenGL where you have no choice but to use libc. 04:59:49 For the most part the raw Linux interface seems much better and more usable than the libc interface. 04:59:57 yeah that's the main example where it's a necessity rather than convenience 05:00:53 For example: ptrace(PTRACE_PEEKDATA) (and getpriority/nice) 05:01:10 ppoll's remaining timeout return value 05:01:31 glibc used to *emulate* ppoll in userspace when the system call failed with ENOSYS, defeating the entire purpose of using ppoll. 05:01:55 The waitid() system call has a fifth argument but glibc hides it for no reason and makes you use deprecated calls to get at it. 05:02:27 The whole errno deal, of course. 05:02:46 and then there's setuid. POSIX setuid sets the effective uid of the process. Linux setuid sets the effective uid of the thread, and now you have different privileges coexisting in your process 05:03:07 pthread_create probably wins over doing it yourself with clone, which is admittedly pretty awkward. 05:05:16 I imagine almost all cases of setuid are single-threaded anyway. 05:05:35 But that's good to know. Looking at musl, it just kills the current process if it fails to setuid on all threads. 05:33:02 99% of the uses of setuid are dropping permissions, rather than raising them 05:33:22 and I think it's plausible to want to drop permissions on some threads and not others, although it might make it hard for them to communicate with each other 05:34:34 (although, there are probably better permission models than the UNIX model) 05:43:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 05:56:09 Which pokemon rule options are missing/wrong? http://zzo38computer.org/misc/option.html 05:57:06 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 06:09:44 -!- mnrmnaugh has joined. 06:11:54 -!- mnrmnaugh has quit (Client Quit). 06:44:14 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:45:56 -!- op_4 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:48:04 -!- immibis has joined. 06:55:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:05:46 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:56 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:00:24 [[4BOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87541&oldid=85372 * WallGraffiti * (+100) 10:02:27 [[4BOD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87542&oldid=87541 * WallGraffiti * (+42) 10:18:57 -!- arseniiv has joined. 10:35:27 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 10:37:41 " I think libc should be split into two parts" => the problem is that libc has to be compatible with its old versions for a very long time, so it gathers lots of historical cruft that obviously shouldn't be there but we can't just remove it now 10:38:01 so some of what is and isn't in libc is partly accidental 10:39:03 and as for libc buffering of file handles, some programming language standard libraries actually reimplement it, rather than just forward the C thing. 10:40:39 the guaranteed sequential file descriptors in unix is also something we can't do much about. we can add a flag like O_CLOEXEC where the process tells the kernel that it doesn't require sequential file descriptor number, but we can't change the existing ABI\ 10:42:41 zzo38: as for more explicit control of memory caching, one thing I was wondering is if a CPU or virtual machine specialized on this could have, instead of a single eight-way L1D cache, a separate one-way L1D cache per index register, and every reference to data memory would use the L1D cache associated with the index register that is the base of 10:42:41 the memory address, at least by default 10:43:47 of course the problem then is what happens when you try to write a memory address through multiple index registers 10:46:43 I wonder why we need things like libc to be compatable 10:46:55 all software is being constantly "maintained" 10:47:44 so if libc changed they could just sort problems that come up, they probably wouldn't even notice a difference from normal maintanance 10:47:55 maintenance* 10:48:47 "all software is being constantly maintained" hahahahahahaha 10:49:09 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:57:49 i am actively using a software that is abandoned for 6 years now 11:01:13 is it Windows 7 ;-) 11:01:59 no 11:11:00 an Android phone_ 11:11:03 ? 11:12:10 a linux software 12:13:49 no way, linux is maintained by paid employees of a Linux megacorporation in the Silicon Valley; oh wait... 12:14:50 btw, want to share two news about videogames 12:15:02 1. OpenTTD is now in Steam 12:15:20 2. Stray - Official Gameplay & Release Window Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4l6uWxe-vk 12:17:34 nakilon: OpenTTD is also in Debian, which just released a new major release, so you get a reasonably up to date version of OpenTTD if you install from there. or you can just download a binary from https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/latest.html 12:17:47 (sorry, I don't like Steam) 12:18:41 looks liek it's even here https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/openttd 12:19:16 I have compiled the openttd executable from source, so I know that works, but that was many years ago 12:19:23 these days I just run a binary 12:22:45 steam is handy -- you can see what your friends are playing and jump into multiplayer with them without leaving the game and registering more accounts around the web 12:23:51 also a handy way to save and share game screenshots 12:23:53 at a previous job, my boss asked me why his Haskell program was getting affected by libc buffering when it wasn't written in C – Probably it wasn’t, but everything does buffering because not buffering performs badly *except* for terminal interaction. Furthermore, ttys themselves distinguish raw (unbuffered) and cooked (line-buffered) mode for input only, so everything has to have 12:23:55 those three buffering modes on at least certain handles. 12:27:07 Regarding the whole discussion of processor determinism, I was reminded of https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479 (“Your computer is not a fast PDP-11”). 12:28:22 I think being able to override specific existing file descriptors is useful. – That’s what dup2/dup3 is for, isn’t it? 12:40:58 Hey, that's that cat game. 12:47:19 (Stray, I mean; I don't think OpenTTD has any cats. You probably couldn't really see them, the scale it's at.) 12:49:40 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 12:50:18 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:05:47 I wonder if some moments in that trailer are scripted or not 13:06:10 such as when dude goes backward into a room and bumps into another one 13:07:46 s/if/whether , right? 13:09:20 nakilon: i said linux software, not the kernel 13:09:50 same world 13:10:04 uh, no 13:10:28 not every oss project in existence is maintained by the linux foundation 13:22:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:26:42 ah nvmd 13:38:11 how much category theory does fungot know? did he pick some up on the channel when you prepared all those models 13:41:36 fungot: know category theory? 13:47:07 Wait, where's fungot? 13:48:03 @seen fungot 13:48:03 I saw fungot leaving #esolangs 9h 2m 25s ago. 13:48:03 missing because of the pandemic probably 13:49:14 fizzie: libera rebooted two servers around that time, maybe fungot was on one of those 13:49:24 -!- fungot has joined. 13:50:10 Yep. This time it had reconnected, but not rejoined because it doesn't know how to. 13:54:35 int-e: Wait, @seen is back? 13:54:44 Wasn't it broken for a decade or two? 13:55:37 no idea 13:55:44 @seen @seen 13:55:44 I haven't seen @seen. 13:56:04 @seen seen 13:56:04 I haven't seen seen. 13:56:11 `? whatis seen 13:56:12 whatis seen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:56:15 shachaf: I had it disabled for a long time because it caused lambdabot to use noticably more memory, possibly leaking memory as well (though I never quite proved that) 13:56:17 `whatis seen 13:56:18 seen(1hackeso) - no description 13:56:47 it made the difference between it becoming unresponsive and needing a restart every week and it being stable for basically forever, subject to network troubles 13:57:32 I fixed some shortcomings but mostly it's on a larger VM now where this is less of an issue. 13:57:36 * int-e shrugs 14:00:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 14:01:14 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:05:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 14:05:46 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:10:36 int-e: like stalker mode for fizzie? 14:18:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:20:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 14:21:14 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:25:32 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 14:25:53 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:32:13 -!- imode has joined. 14:35:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 14:36:12 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:40:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 14:40:45 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:41:24 wib_jonas, OpenTTD is also packaged in GNU Guix and probably many other distributions 14:59:29 even nixos has a package for it 15:00:38 guix reads pretty similar to nixos 15:01:33 Is that surprising? nixpkgs is basically the biggest public ports tree, although I'd love to learn of bigger ones. 15:02:20 https://repology.org/graph/map_repo_size_fresh.svg I still love this plot. Comparison of various distros and ports trees based on number of packages and number of "fresh" up-to-date packages. 15:08:16 Corbin: only in the sense that the tireless contributors to OpenTTD managed to replace the original graphics from TTD and provide free graphics, so it's now free software enough even for Debian's standards, unlike the early versions. 15:14:13 wib_jonas: Oh, that makes sense. Congratulations to them; it must have been a lot of work. 15:20:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 15:21:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:25:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 15:25:43 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:41:16 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:45:32 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 15:57:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:01:29 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 16:01:46 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:06:30 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:21:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:22:17 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:26:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 16:26:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:36:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:37:16 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:41:28 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 16:41:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:51:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:52:18 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:56:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 16:56:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:01:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 17:02:18 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:06:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 17:06:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:14:02 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jdonszelmann * uploaded "[[File:Collatz.png]]" 17:14:58 -!- Trieste has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:15:42 -!- Trieste has joined. 17:17:14 [[TRAIN!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87544 * Jdonszelmann * (+8291) TRAIN! is a programming language centered about trains moving passengers with data around stations which apply operations. 17:18:11 [[TRAIN!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87545&oldid=87544 * Jdonszelmann * (-5) 17:21:11 [[TRAIN!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87546&oldid=87545 * Jdonszelmann * (-10) 18:06:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:07:17 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:11:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 18:11:50 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:47:46 [[Mogus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87547 * VilgotanL * (+1201) mogus 18:48:49 [[Mogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87548&oldid=87547 * VilgotanL * (+1) fix minor bug 18:53:17 [[Mogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87549&oldid=87548 * VilgotanL * (+158) 18:53:34 [[Mogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87550&oldid=87549 * VilgotanL * (+6) 18:57:55 [[Mogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87551&oldid=87550 * VilgotanL * (+226) 18:58:17 -!- sknebel has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:59:32 -!- sknebel has joined. 19:12:07 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:20:38 [[Malfunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87552 * ArthroStar11 * (+2607) created page and provided link to my interpreter 19:22:02 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87553&oldid=87538 * ArthroStar11 * (+15) Added my language "Malfunge" 19:23:30 [[User:ArthroStar11]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87554&oldid=86412 * ArthroStar11 * (+131) 19:24:26 [[Malfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87555&oldid=87552 * ArthroStar11 * (+25) remembered to add "Implemented" category 19:26:17 [[Geolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87556 * TJC games * (+538) Created page with "Geolang is a programming language made by [[user:TJC games|TJC games]] for helping with geometry. Who am I kidding, it is a stupid language made by a stupid person. ==Usage==..." 19:43:16 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:44:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:44:33 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 19:53:05 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 19:55:07 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:55:07 -!- impomatic_ has changed nick to impomatic. 19:56:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 19:56:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:59:02 [[User:Oshaboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87557&oldid=83461 * Oshaboy * (+508) 20:24:01 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:56:33 [[Malfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87558&oldid=87555 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+39) /* Implementation */ cAt 21:06:41 [[Sophie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87559&oldid=85358 * Oshaboy * (+0) typo 21:11:00 -!- user3456 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:11:47 -!- user3456 has joined. 21:23:02 [[Truthlang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87560 * Oshaboy * (+779) Initial 21:23:31 [[User:Oshaboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87561&oldid=87557 * Oshaboy * (+37) Added Truthlang 21:27:11 [[Truthlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87562&oldid=87560 * Oshaboy * (+50) I just realized an interpreter would be a Truth Machine. 21:29:44 [[Truthlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87563&oldid=87562 * Oshaboy * (-50) Undo revision 87562 by [[Special:Contributions/Oshaboy|Oshaboy]] ([[User talk:Oshaboy|talk]]) 21:30:54 [[Truthlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87564&oldid=87563 * Oshaboy * (+93) Truth Machines aren't Truthlang Interpreters 21:32:52 [[Truthlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87565&oldid=87564 * Oshaboy * (+29) /* Overview */ 21:39:02 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 21:45:00 [[Malfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87566&oldid=87558 * ArthroStar11 * (+150) Put in size of playfield. Sorry, it was a big project with a complex specification, I'm not trying to spam. 22:19:54 [[Scroll]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87567&oldid=87436 * WreckingGames * (+1) 22:21:23 [[Scroll]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87568&oldid=87567 * WreckingGames * (+1) 22:28:40 -!- immibis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:15:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:55:31 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87569&oldid=84431 * Oerjan * (+147) Temporary fix for the edit blocking people are experiencing 23:57:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:57:28 it's unclear what the correct solution for the hello world page is 23:57:29 uh oh 23:57:55 your temporary solution's a nice one to unblock things, but I'm not sure what the "correct" solution is 23:58:24 maybe we need some sort of dedicated hello world browser 23:58:36 heh 23:58:53 yeah if we want people to be able to see everything on one page it may be awkward. 23:59:36 perhaps splitting it up into 27 pages (one for each English letter and one for the languages whose names start with something else)? 2021-08-24: 00:00:00 i was briefly considering just splitting A-M and N-~ 00:01:06 27 pages seems excessive to start with 00:02:07 splitting it in half is probably enough for now, but maybe we'll want to split it more later 00:02:11 do you want to split it, or shall I? 00:02:46 I guess I'll do it 00:03:40 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ais523 * moved [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] to [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]: this has outgrown a single page 00:04:44 ais523: I suggested splitting to 5 pages 00:05:11 if we just split it in two, we'll split it again later and we'll get another set of broken links 00:06:17 [[Editing Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87572 * Ais523 * (+90766) split from [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] 00:07:28 ais523: "Editing" in the title 00:07:30 [[Editing Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87573&oldid=87572 * Ais523 * (+270) introduction 00:08:35 maybe that's on purpose? 00:08:52 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87574&oldid=87570 * Ais523 * (-90581) half this page has been moved to another page 00:08:57 oh, it isn't 00:09:04 oerjan: I don't think so, it's probably bad copy-paste from the title 00:09:17 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ais523 * moved [[Editing Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] to [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]]: typo in name 00:11:13 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87576&oldid=87571 * Ais523 * (+160) an intro page that links to the two parts that the list has been split into 00:11:42 this will do for now, I think 00:11:54 and it'll generalise to more sections if we need to split the page up more later 00:11:57 thanks 00:12:57 IIRC the recommended maximum page size is 32KiB, and both halves are around three times that at the moment, so maybe splitting it up still further would be a good idea, but that can wait I think 00:14:07 I'm surprised by how evenly the esolangs seem to be distributed among the alphabet 00:14:17 most alphabetical lists of things have a bias towards the start of the alphabet 00:32:05 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:35:17 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 01:18:57 argh suddenly i realized why b_jonas was right to worry about broken links 01:19:36 all the sectioned ones. and there's just no way we can keep those from outside the wiki working, is there... 01:19:51 assuming there are any. 01:20:21 *those with section anchors 01:23:55 Well, if it contains other links and it is clear from the anchor name where to find it, then the user should be able to figure out what to do, I suppose 01:30:24 zzo38: i'm pretty many users are not that intelligent and i am not patient enough not to be annoyed by such a thing 01:30:30 *pretty sure 01:31:52 (ok right now i'm worked up and therefore not patient at all. time to calm down...) 01:44:01 Well, hopefully if there are any such links they will be fixed; if not, then the user figuring it out from what is written on there will have to do. 02:18:23 in theory we could come up with some piece of complicated JavaScript that looks to see if someone visits the intro page via a section link, and automatically jumps to the appropriate page 02:18:35 but, I'm not in the right state of mind to write it right now 02:30:53 ooh 04:41:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:44:56 [[Mogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87577&oldid=87551 * ZippyMagician * (+612) Update computational class section, add programs. 04:49:23 [[Mogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87578&oldid=87577 * TriMill * (-12) Fixed a few mistakes in the examples, changed my attribution to my wiki account 06:04:21 the broken links problem might need to replace the current page with one that just says "hey, the page was splitted, look for your lang somewhere there" 06:04:30 idk 06:05:10 there is the problem with rosettacode -- instead of putting snippets in every lang dedicated page they put all on one page and it burns CPU like mad 06:06:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 06:29:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:42:44 -!- arseniiv has joined. 07:01:04 -!- immibis has joined. 07:07:32 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:07:48 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 07:59:17 oerjan: well, we can have a table of contents on the original page; except since ais moved that, short links like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page?curid=1322 are already broken 08:00:19 those will point to the @-M version 08:04:52 -!- Gozrad has quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat). 08:05:06 -!- Gozrad has joined. 08:06:14 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:22 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:20:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:47 -!- Koen_ has joined. 08:50:00 -!- Oshawott has joined. 08:52:54 -!- archenoth has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:55:31 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:55:44 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 09:09:03 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:09:14 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 11:45:18 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:59:19 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:01:08 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 12:06:11 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 12:07:47 I just realized, my full backup script "http://www.perlmonks.com/index.pl?node_id=922051" , which I'm still using today, is 10 years old since publication. I'll be using it soon to make a full backup before I update the debian version. 12:19:37 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:19:54 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 13:00:01 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:08:48 -!- arseniiv has joined. 13:14:35 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:14:59 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:24:21 -!- joast has quit (*.net *.split). 13:24:21 -!- nakilon has quit (*.net *.split). 13:24:21 -!- relrod has quit (*.net *.split). 13:24:21 -!- Corbin has quit (*.net *.split). 13:24:21 -!- Bowserinator has quit (*.net *.split). 13:24:21 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 13:24:22 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 13:28:34 -!- joast has joined. 13:28:34 -!- nakilon has joined. 13:28:34 -!- relrod has joined. 13:28:34 -!- Corbin has joined. 13:28:34 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 13:28:34 -!- b_jonas has joined. 13:28:34 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:38:21 half of the job is done https://imgur.com/a/2X4sFFr now need to add textarea for stdin and render the annotated output somehow that is another fight with CSS _<> 14:02:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:21:54 -!- Riviera_ has changed nick to Riviera. 15:12:45 -!- j4cbo has quit. 15:12:59 -!- j4cbo has joined. 15:26:59 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:27:23 -!- hendursaga has joined. 16:06:17 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jnavb * New user account 16:10:58 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87579&oldid=87505 * Jnavb * (+171) /* Introductions */ 16:25:06 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:35:17 -!- imode has joined. 16:54:25 hmmm in Ruby if you do a,b=[1,2] it results in a=1, b = 2; if you do a,b=3 it results in a=3,b=nil 16:54:42 I can't find how to do the same in JS https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Operators/Destructuring_assignment 16:55:22 in my annotated log each stack item is either a number or [number, annotation] 17:28:02 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:35:29 I suppose this looks fine enough https://i.imgur.com/c7Funvz.png 17:36:07 looks a bit awkward that widths are different but if I equalise them the whole stack will become needlessly wide 17:46:28 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 18:11:13 would be cool if I hover mouse over log line and it highlights the code... but I'll leave it for later 18:12:33 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:29:04 [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87580&oldid=87421 * KakkoiiChris * (+1) /* Memory */ Fixed typo 18:31:38 [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87581&oldid=87580 * KakkoiiChris * (+8) /* String Cast (xs) */ Fixed typo 18:42:54 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:43:16 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:46:30 [[Ultimate bf instruction minimalization!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87582&oldid=23941 * CosmicMan08 * (+18) Added halt instruction 18:47:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 18:47:45 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:50:18 -!- Oshawott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:07:15 -!- archenoth has joined. 19:08:51 [[Ultimate bf instruction minimalization!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87583&oldid=87582 * CosmicMan08 * (-18) Undo revision 87582 by [[Special:Contributions/CosmicMan08|CosmicMan08]] ([[User talk:CosmicMan08|talk]]) 19:12:54 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 19:13:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:15:22 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:17:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 19:17:45 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:32:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:37:44 [[English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87584&oldid=81409 * ThisIsTheFoxe * (+2041) /* Compilers */ add openAI comments 20:02:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:03:15 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:07:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 20:07:45 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:17:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:18:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:19:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 20:22:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:51:11 -!- archenoth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:03:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 21:31:44 -!- src has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:39:19 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87585&oldid=87574 * Salpynx * (+274) /* */ ixqus 21:50:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 21:59:49 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:12:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:13:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:17:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 22:17:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:29:58 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87586&oldid=87342 * Salpynx * (+328) testing pixelated scaling for EnlargeImage template 22:34:21 -!- archenoth has joined. 22:42:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:43:14 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:45:06 [[Template:EnlargeImage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87587&oldid=8796 * Salpynx * (+49) if someone can think of a wiki markup only way to apply this style, please change it! 22:46:48 [[Talk:Piet-Q]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87588&oldid=35075 * Salpynx * (+142) 22:47:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 22:47:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:57:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:04:21 the broken links problem might need to replace the current page with one that just says "hey, the page was splitted, look for your lang somewhere there" <-- well yeah, that's what ais523 already did essentially 23:04:57 i just got a bit obsessive thinking about it yesterday. 23:07:27 b_jonas: in other obsessive thinking, i've kept wondering a bit about your "find two files that break merging" problem. last i spoke about it i'd confirmed that double bisection (with careful balancing) is optional up to 10 files. however then it stopped being obvious. now i've found a corner case where a different algorithm usually handles _better_ than double bisection, in fact it achieves the 23:07:33 theoretical limit of that OEIS function i linked. 23:07:41 *is optimal up to 10 files 23:08:56 with that, i've shown that 11, 12, 13 and 15 optimal searches that are _not_ double bisections. (for 14 double bisection gives the OEIS optimum.) 23:09:22 16 seems to require analyzing a different more complicated corner case which i haven't finished. 23:11:50 the corner case i've found is where you've done the initial bisection down to 3 files (so one of those must be a target file) out of n. continuing with the double bisection is then only optimal if n is 2^k+{1,2}. 23:14:17 (if you get down to 2 / 4 files in contrast, double bisection is always / usually optimal.) 23:18:12 [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87589&oldid=70256 * Salpynx * (+23) Add category Languages. 23:18:25 hm b_jonas probably isn't here. i guess i should stop monologuing until he is. 23:26:09 oerjan: well, we can have a table of contents on the original page; except since ais moved that, short links like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page?curid=1322 are already broken <-- i don't think i'm going to worry about link formats which only experts know about. 23:30:14 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87590&oldid=87586 * Salpynx * (+121) /* Mycelium Hello, World! */ 23:40:03 [[English]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87591&oldid=87584 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* 99 Bottles of Beer */ Overflow scroll 2021-08-25: 00:00:08 oerjan: hmm 00:00:19 oh hi 00:01:15 I wonder if this is related to opitmal sorting networks or optimal interactive sorting protocols that minimize the number of comparisons 00:01:50 or that weird screws and nuts comparison problem 00:01:53 perhaps, although the difference is that the underlying tests here don't really come from a _total_ order 00:02:19 you still can structure them in a binary tree, though, which is why they must obey the OEIS function limit 00:02:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 00:03:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 00:03:29 (the function can be described as: minimum sum of depths of leaves in a binary tree with a given number of leaves) 00:03:43 ftr I don't need an optimal method; close to optimal for large numbers and optimal for small numbers is already fine for me 00:04:03 true, as i said i just got obsessed about the question 00:05:22 and also finding the optimal method might get hairy in more complicated cases: for 16 files i'm having to look at the corner case with _5_ files out of 16 00:05:54 which looks like it _might_ be done better than by bisection but i haven't wrapped it up 00:06:45 and I logread this channel anyway 00:07:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 00:07:28 a general principle seems to be that the problem gets harder when the number of possible pairs is close to a power of 2 (because that minimizes the slack you have in balancing) 00:07:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 00:09:01 if you care about the minimum that is, not eg. the average 00:09:32 i'm actually caring about the average over all possible pairs 00:10:09 which is OEIS(n)/n for a sufficiently balanced tree 00:10:23 er 00:10:35 that's when n is the number of possible pairs. 00:11:04 also for a _perfectly_ balanced tree that also forces the minimum 00:11:28 s/perfectly/sufficiently/ 00:11:55 well that _is_ perfectly for that given number 00:12:39 because the only way to have that is for all the leaves to be at exactly 2 levels - otherwise you can improve by rearranging. 00:12:58 (well or 1 level for an exact power of 2) 00:16:52 anyway, i'm monologuing again (MWAHAHAHA) 00:36:26 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 00:36:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:37:40 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 00:40:39 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 00:50:17 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:50:35 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 00:52:56 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:54:00 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Client Quit). 00:54:17 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 01:01:21 -!- impomatic has joined. 01:11:47 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:12:00 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 01:21:57 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:22:15 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 01:26:01 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 01:26:15 j #dragonbox-pyra 01:26:29 woops 01:29:41 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:41:07 Which web browsers can you write dynamic extensions in C? 01:45:52 none anymore 01:46:26 they want to remove plugins, and remove even the feature of supporting plugins 01:47:38 whether it's activex, ppapi or npapi 01:48:14 does the south korean banking system still run on activex or did they fix that finally 01:48:55 LiveConnect and XPConnect might still works 01:49:05 None of those are what I had meant anyways though; I mean extensions and not plugins of web pages 01:49:58 well ppapi/npapi are sort of both 01:50:10 extension can only be in webextension nowadays 01:51:15 I think WebExtensions doesn't work well enough 01:51:47 i do too, they have LESS features than the previous solution 01:51:52 but we don't have anything else 01:52:39 I still use the old version of Firefox with XUL, since I dislike many of the features of the new one 01:53:14 then you can probably still use the old firefox extensions 01:53:18 and npapi 01:53:23 Although I have ideas how a better web browser should be written, one of the ideas is that extensions should be C 01:53:46 all plugins already are C 01:54:44 Also, HTTP, HTTPS, HTML, and many other things should also be implemented as extensions, although the "data" URI scheme will be a part of the core system 01:56:58 yeah, and we should restore support of ftp, ftps, sftp, gopher, gemini, ipfs, tor, etc... in browsers 01:57:07 alongside with rtf, sgml, tex, markdown and others 01:57:49 IDE (and toolchains) already have something similar with https://langserver.org/ 01:58:47 it WAS made by microsoft, but it's still a very nice idea, completely separating the tool, from the language, from the compiler 01:59:31 most IDE and tools already supports it 02:00:45 Yes, FTP, Gopher, Gemini, IPFS, etc can also be implemented as extensions and should be included with the browser. (Implementing nearly all of the URI schemes (except data: and some uses of about:) in extensions makes it more uniform and allow better customization, and ensures that the extension interface works good enough) 02:01:53