←2021-09-11 2021-09-12 2021-09-13→ ↑2021 ↑all
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01:00:18 <zzo38> Is Tom7 interested in Free Hero Mesh now that bizarro is implemented? Someone told me that it is, but I don't really know. (Maybe, should also be implemented changing execution order of objects (like, I think, Tom7 did), but that might be difficult to know how to do it properly)
01:03:03 <keegan> what is bizarro
01:03:54 <zzo38> The bizarro world is another grid of objects which is normally invisible and intangible, but is still affected by most turn-based actions
01:07:35 <b_jonas> dunno, you'll have to ask him. he has an email.
01:07:47 <b_jonas> and a blog with comment forms.
01:07:59 <zzo38> OK. I looked and I found two different email addresses.
01:10:32 <zzo38> But, I will try.
02:04:35 <b_jonas> in git, how do you list the refs of a remote repo?
02:06:07 <ais523> b_jonas: does "git branch -v --remote" do what you want?
02:17:31 <b_jonas> ais523: no, that only shows the local tags created that follow the remote tags. but (git ls-remote) does work.
02:18:58 <b_jonas> ais523: the context is that I was trying to pull from a git repo that renamed its master branch to main, and didn't leave master even as a synonym, but I still have a local remotes/origin/main reference. so I wanted git to list remote refs to make sure that indeed, master doesn't exist on the remote.
02:19:11 <b_jonas> *sigh*
02:23:12 <b_jonas> the "master" nonsense started out sanely, with only the fancy web interface on github localizing "master" to "main", and using "main" as the branch name in repos if you create one with their fancy GUI tool. they don't need to touch actual branch names, because that would break compatibility, and the kind of people who don't understand that won't see the real branch names because they don't type (git
02:23:18 <b_jonas> lsref) or anything in the command-line, they just look at the github frontpage or something.
02:23:36 <b_jonas> but no, at least one repository actually has the existing branch name deleted now. how did we get to this?
02:24:54 <b_jonas> immibis: ok, you were right
02:24:56 <b_jonas> um
02:24:58 <b_jonas> int-e: you were right
02:25:20 <b_jonas> and it sounds like it's from one of those puzzle/contest sites, not from coursework homework
02:25:36 <ais523> fwiw, I think it makes the most sense to name the primary branch after the project
02:26:37 <b_jonas> I don't care what you name the branch, I only care when it's renamed in an existing public repo with no synonym left
02:30:01 <b_jonas> (I also found another repo that did a non-fastforward change to their master
02:32:36 <zzo38> What I read is that git doesn't care about the branch name (except that it creates the "master" branch by default). But, you might want to use other branch names in any system, one reason being due to converting it, e.g. fossil<->git, since fossil uses name "trunk" by default, but again it doesn't care the branch name you can use other names.
02:34:00 <zzo38> (Fossil also has propagating tags too, so you can reference a range of commits using a name of any tag and you can have more than one. The branch name is also a tag, so that can also be used.)
02:35:33 <b_jonas> what I don't know is how git knows which branch is the default? when I clone a repo, I don't explicitly tell it to check out the master branch, it decides that on its own.
02:35:41 <b_jonas> is there something in the config that tells that?
02:37:41 <fizzie> Does anything but Subversion use that model where you just have one big tree, and it's just a convention that you create top-level directories "trunk", "tags" and "branches" under the root, and make copies of all your code in them?
02:38:07 <b_jonas> hmm... I think git checks out the HEAD of the remote
02:39:00 <b_jonas> fizzie: no idea, ask someone who uses mercurial, they have like three or four different branch mechanisms so perhaps one of them is that
02:39:11 <b_jonas> :-/
02:39:19 <fizzie> git clone "-- creates and checks out an initial branch that is forked from the cloned repository’s currently active branch."
02:40:10 <fizzie> I guess a bare repository has an active branch as well?
02:40:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: apparently
02:40:55 <fizzie> And we use Mercurial at work, though weirdly.
02:42:02 <b_jonas> fizzie: aren't you using git at work?
02:42:54 <fizzie> No. Well, except for a lot of open-source things of course.
02:43:22 <fizzie> Chromium and Android and such.
02:43:59 <b_jonas> well yeah, everyone has a lot of version control systems installed on their machine these days just to be able to check out third party repositories
02:44:37 <b_jonas> that's why I have cvs, mercurial, darcs, fossil, bazaar installed
02:44:58 <b_jonas> (svn and git I have used for actual work or hobby)
02:48:00 <fizzie> I think we moved from Subversion to git for the "big" (not that big) shared ASR codebase at the university when I was there doing research.
02:49:36 <fizzie> Hey, that fox is back.
02:50:14 <fizzie> Well, okay, it might be an entirely different fox, I think there's many of them.
02:51:37 <fizzie> Hadn't seen any for a while, but before that I frequently saw one of two at night out there crossing the (pretty quiet) side street or just walking on the sidewalk.
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03:05:32 <earendel> new connection would also mean new secure socket layer handshake roundtrips overhead..no? this sucks hard on gprs connections, when scripts demand preflight check for modifications before it serves from cache. a page like irccloud easily make 30-40 https requests. it is a pain. not sure what keepAlive even does. probably additional overhead ping pongs. it in some ways stays open. via stream end
03:12:11 <earendel> a better protocol would put all requests in a single one. and fetch the whole package deflated, encypted.. vice versa.. and then evaluated "in time". and the user/webdeveloper would only notice when inspecting the network tab. good software never jumps in your way demanding your attention.
03:13:41 <Corbin> Sure, computers suck.
03:14:04 <b_jonas> earendel: what is the context for this? and yes, we've been doing multiple HTTP requests per TCP connection long ago, regardless of SSL or not
03:14:18 <earendel> yes, but not pleasently
03:14:47 <b_jonas> well yes, HTTP 2 is trying to improve on that a bit I think
03:15:07 <b_jonas> in that it allows you to abort a request without breaking the TCP stream
03:15:21 <b_jonas> but the basics work well enough, and routinely used for downloading several small files
03:15:26 <earendel> [ardon.. a few thoughts. context is my mobile connecion here :/
03:16:07 <fizzie> HTTP/3 uses UDP and has a 0-RTT encrypted handshake to known servers. Or at least QUIC did.
03:16:34 <b_jonas> I mean I have an old custom HTTP downloader program (I really should make a new one soon because it sucks), it has a delay mode where it downloads things slowly, and in that delay more I batch multiple requests together and longer delays between just so that I can take advantage of HTTP keepalive connections
03:16:59 <b_jonas> and indeed I've done a debug output to verify that that works, it does not start a new TCP connection within the batches usually
03:17:09 <fizzie> (And TCP keepalive is pretty much just redundant 0-size frames + their acks.)
03:17:27 <b_jonas> fizzie: this is a different keepalive
03:17:30 <b_jonas> not TCP keepalive
03:18:16 <fizzie> Oh, I got confused, because that was talked about earlier.
03:18:27 <earendel> i am afraid all of this is crappy om plicated and just doesn't work. or solve the problem it was invented for. obviously. so http is ok. one as well use bundlers. and just.. test a webapp in low bandwith.
03:18:43 <earendel> right keepalive we were.
03:18:59 <fizzie> Yeah, the HTTP "keepalive" is almost a different meaning of the word.
03:19:14 <b_jonas> it's just some stuff in the request and response headers where the server and client negotiate that you can reuse the TCP connection for another request, for which both parties have to make sure that if a request/response has a body, it uses either Content-Length or chunked encoding so the other party can tell where the body ends
03:19:45 <b_jonas> but earendel might have asked about something else and I jumped to a conclusion
03:19:46 <ais523> it has crossed my mind recently that many web pages have heavy JavaScript for doing things like replacing small portions of the page so that there's no need to redownload the whole thing
03:19:56 <b_jonas> I don't know the context that earendel was trying to ask about
03:19:59 <earendel> i was a bit off as i said. 1st sgt logbook entry. i understand we talked about tcp.
03:19:59 <ais523> when in fact, you could just do it all as plain HTML and it'd be faster due to the smaller download sizes
03:20:41 <ais523> there are complicated javascript-based web forums which have things like fake scrollbars because the real one wouldn't work properly, because the page isn't loaded all at once
03:20:51 <earendel> yup.
03:20:55 <ais523> but, if it weren't for images (which you may be able to use placeholders for), you probably *could* just load the page all at once
03:21:07 <ais523> and it might well be lighter
03:21:28 <b_jonas> ais523: and websites that put on a blur filter and an overlay popup that says you have to buy a payed subscription to view the article, on client side
03:21:52 <b_jonas> or similarly a blur filter and an overlay popup saying that you have to claim to be at least 18 years old to view the content
03:22:00 <b_jonas> usually also disabling the scrolling behind it
03:22:12 <ais523> b_jonas: I've discovered that surprisingly many of those, the filter, overlay, etc. just don't load if you have JavaScript off
03:22:34 <b_jonas> ais523: nah, on some sites nothing loads if you have Javascript off
03:22:37 <ais523> my "default" for browsing the web is JS-off (I have ways to turn it on if I need to), and it's actually much more usable that way, surprisingly
03:22:47 <earendel> yes. images can, and were put into sprite bitmaps to keep conn low.
03:23:00 <earendel> but images are not used much as back then.
03:23:15 <b_jonas> ais523: but sure that happens too
03:23:37 <earendel> usully u can do a lot with that minimal symbols that are fashinable and minimal (which i like too)
03:24:10 <earendel> it helps indeed sometimes.
03:24:30 <b_jonas> ais523: there's at least one site where I enable javascript just to download the content, AND have a client-side CSS rule to remove the overlay and reenable scrolling
03:24:41 <earendel> btw. gitter is lynx compatible.
03:25:39 <b_jonas> ais523: oh, and you need to accept at least some cookies for it to load too
03:25:53 <earendel> i think most websites are mining coins when i use their interface in the background. and keeps machine learning my type style. and metriics more terrifying. :>
03:30:05 <b_jonas> earendel: probably not very fast, because I'd hear the fan spinning
03:31:11 <earendel> or contribute to SETI
03:31:37 <earendel> which i would cancel severly.
03:31:40 <zzo38> ais523: I agree; it does usually work better.
03:32:06 <zzo38> Sometimes, even though nothing is displayed if JS is disabled, you can disable CSS as well and then it will be displayed. However, sometimes this does not work.
03:33:15 <zzo38> (Sometimes by viewing the source you can still find a link to the data, though.)
03:33:36 <ais523> I discovered recently that Firefox has a built-in way to disable CSS on the page you're viewing
03:33:53 <ais523> alt-v, y, n
03:34:04 <ais523> this also lets you change between stylesheets, if the site defined more than one
03:34:07 <earendel> about:config?
03:34:17 <ais523> no, in the menus for one page, rather than globally
03:34:27 <ais523> it's probably got a global CSS disable too, but I doubt it's a good idea to use it
03:35:59 <zzo38> I use that command a lot actually
03:37:15 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, that's very old. the alternate stylesheets too, though mostly your readers won't guess they exist unless you include a built-in interface, whether client-side script to change which stylesheets are active
03:37:45 <earendel> that matrix addon was quite powerful. usually its a bit too much work, but it could pay on 56KBit ~
03:37:50 <ais523> b_jonas: still, it means that you could combine the JS stylesheet change, with the browser stylesheet change
03:37:55 <ais523> and have a page that works for non-JS viewers
03:37:59 <b_jonas> also I think different browsers implement the alternate stylesheets a bit differently so you have to be careful, to tell if they're disabled when loading the page, some look at one attribute, some look at another
03:38:31 <b_jonas> one attribute tells if it's a normal or alternate stylesheet; the other gives the name of the alternat stylesheet that the menu or scripts can reference to enable/disable it
03:38:59 <earendel> aaand. markdown would be totally sufficient for informational pages. articles.
03:39:44 <ais523> I wouldn't like Markdown specifically for that because it has a few annoying corner cases
03:39:48 <ais523> like in the escaping rules
03:39:57 <zzo38> Another alternative is the simpler gemini format
03:39:58 <ais523> but, the sort of page that can be generated from a markdown-ish input, yes
03:40:04 <ais523> or even POD
03:40:46 <zzo38> (Although gemini doesn't have inline formatting; there is no emphasis, strong, fixpitch (except for blocks), or inline links (links on lines by themself are possible).)
03:40:56 <earendel> there can still be app vr world integrated within toaster and fridge. also rss has to somehow be spun together. then we can drop social media tech monopolies if we want. (we could keep the, if they behave nicely :)
03:41:06 <ais523> I actually really like POD's feature set, except for the non-semantic I<> and B<>
03:41:31 <b_jonas> ais523: yes. but the menu only allows the reader to enable one alt stylesheet and disable all others, or enable no alt stylesheet. if you want multiple orthogonal axis by stylesheet, such as colors and font sizes, you need more than the menu.
03:41:48 <b_jonas> I also don't like markdown. it's harder to use than HTML.
03:41:53 <ais523> well, browsers have a built-in for variable font sizes nowadays too, but yes
03:42:11 <ais523> I was working on my own markdown-alike, but never finished, there were some things I couldn't decide how they should work
03:42:15 <earendel> some p2p indexing distributed queryable node mastermind
03:42:21 <b_jonas> you'd THINK it's hard to make a markup language that's worse than HTML with all its historical baggage, yet a lot of wiki or forum sites manage exactly that
03:42:25 <ais523> I /did/ decide that <details> was worthy of having a tag-equivalent, though
03:42:38 <ais523> and find an escaping syntax I was happy with
03:42:39 <earendel> so. i hope u have noted this. :p
03:42:40 <b_jonas> it'd be quite marvelous if I didn't want to post on some of those sites
03:42:46 <zzo38> I think plain HTML without CSS or scripts, and with some commands omitted and also some more things such as footnotes, can be good, perhaps.
03:43:04 <ais523> I think there are three goals for a markdown-alike, in some amount of competition: a) be readable as plaintext, b) be easy to write, c) round-trip well with HTML-alikes
03:43:13 <ais523> I was primarily focusing on a) and c), but other combinations also make sense
03:43:25 <ais523> Markdown is moderately bad in all three areas
03:43:45 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah, if I make a custom markup language, it will be HTML plus a lot of custom pseudo-tags that are rewritten on the server
03:43:50 <earendel> hihi
03:43:52 <ais523> MediaWiki markup is good at c) and moderately good at b), less good at a)
03:43:59 <zzo38> I also had idea of markdown-alike too, with goals a) and b), and without the ability to embed HTML. Also some other differences, such as <...@...> for message IDs, and using ^H and ^W to represent strike-out
03:45:23 <zzo38> But regardless, I should think that a) is important
03:47:13 <zzo38> When writing a web page, ensure working without scripts if possible. Include a proper <noscript> block, with whatever is necessary, e.g. the text itself, links to the data, links to API documentation, alternative protocols (e.g. NNTP, IRC), etc
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03:53:24 <earendel> b-jonas. ah. thx. that's keep alive. well explained. i love you all. *whipcrack
03:57:16 <ais523> zzo38: I think it would be even better if the <noscript> block wasn't even required
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03:58:05 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, although that is not applicable to all web pages. For ordinary documents, neither scripts nor <noscript> will be required, but some do something else.
03:59:34 <zzo38> Another feature of Firefox I sometimes use is the jar: URI scheme. However, there seems to be a bug; if the file is replaced while Firefox is running, it gets confused and won't load it until Firefox is restarted (maybe it caches the index?)
04:00:06 <ais523> anyway, I'm a huge fan of <details> because there are many pages that use JavaScript (or more recently, CSS) to do the equivalent of a <details> and don't use it for anything else
04:00:33 <ais523> and yet, nobody uses it, they use the JS or CSS versions anyway :-(
04:00:57 <zzo38> What does the <details> command do? I think I saw it once but now I forgot.
04:01:37 <b_jonas> ais523: I've seen at least one site that uses details, but most sites don't use it because it's new. the annoying part of details is that you can't easily force them open with user-style CSS
04:02:19 <b_jonas> ais523: and that one site is (drumroll) … https://www.darthsanddroids.net/
04:02:25 <zzo38> You could include a script that checks if <details> is implemented and if not, provides it own, maybe. I also had idea of a "feature" attribute
04:03:06 <ais523> zzo38: it has a title and a body, the body is hidden by default until you click on the title
04:03:31 <ais523> so it's useful either for spoilers, or for things that are long and will only interest some people and you don't want them to take up space on the page by default
04:04:00 <b_jonas> I think I might need to install greasemonkey or something just to open them on user side
04:04:16 <b_jonas> is greasemonkey still a thing? or should I use something else when just CSS rules aren't enough?
04:04:51 <zzo38> Yes, that is better than what other thing are doing. Also it mean that depending on the implementation, the user might be able to configure the default state (visible or hidden)
04:05:29 <zzo38> Is it possible for JavaScripts detecting which HTML commands are implemented and which ones aren't?
04:05:54 <ais523> b_jonas: I think there are greasemonkey-alikes around but something happened to the original; but I don't know the details
04:06:13 <b_jonas> hmm. maybe someone else here knows.
04:06:23 <b_jonas> if not, I have other guesses of where to ask geeks.
04:08:00 <b_jonas> it turns out, the internet is full of people who use browsers
04:09:44 <ais523> you'll probably find fewer browser-users on IRC than other parts of the Internet
04:09:53 <ais523> this is one of the very few parts that you don't have to use browsers to participate in
04:10:24 <b_jonas> ais523: but more of those browser users are the kind who do custom stuff in their clients
04:10:54 <b_jonas> I mean there are several people here who made IRC bots
04:11:45 <ais523> there are even people here who made IRC bots in esolangs :-)
04:12:00 <ais523> although, I don't know how transferrable those skills are
04:12:37 <b_jonas> ais523: hmm... like three of those bots have web interfaces, but that's server-side web stuff, not client-side
04:15:14 <ais523> and user scripts aren't even client-side web, really, they're something else
04:15:15 <ais523> user-side?
04:15:25 <b_jonas> yeah
04:15:27 <ais523> client-side is normally used for the parts that the site writes but that run on the user's browser
04:15:46 <b_jonas> correct
04:18:23 <b_jonas> I mean it's a bit of an orthogonal thing, you can have scripts or style or templates or other content originating from at least three places (the forum website, the third-party poster, the reading user), and any of the three could run on either the server or in your browser
04:18:57 <ais523> well, some combinations *shouldn't* be used (e.g. third-party scripts running on the user's browser)
04:19:06 <ais523> but I agree that every combinatino is technically possible
04:19:17 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, it shouldn't just be arbitrary scripts,
04:20:18 <b_jonas> but it can be other third-party content, including id or class names within a namespace, or sanitized css rules, or technically even sandboxed scripts, though that's quite hard
04:21:14 <b_jonas> and some websites allow the third-party poster to upload images; some even go so far as allowing to include images by url from external sites, which is one of the main reasons why I'm now using the Umatrix plugin to disable those
04:23:24 <ais523> this is very common, sadly (the including images from external sites by URL)
04:23:49 <ais523> I'm generally of the opinion that webforums should ban images altogether, apart from images that they naturally host themself (which they may not have any of)
04:24:09 <zzo38> I am of the opinion that NNTP is better
04:24:15 <ais523> maybe if the forum has an attached wiki, it could allow embedding of an image from their wiki
04:24:37 <ais523> but, most of the uses of images that people want on web forums are copyright violations
04:25:40 <zzo38> (I also prefer that if you include a picture, should include a link that does not automatically display the picture, but you can still select to view if you want to)
04:26:01 <b_jonas> oh, I actually have a question about this
04:26:48 <b_jonas> suppose I want to make a mirror for a forum that allows embedding images. on the mirror, I turn embedded images to links. but I want to indicate which of those links were embedded images, eg. by putting some symbol before the link. what symbol should I use?
04:27:11 <b_jonas> or what other markup to distinguish what was originally embedded image from plain links
04:27:43 <ais523> I think that in order to avoid information loss, you should at least add a CSS class to the links that were converted from images (maybe also to the links that weren't convered from images)
04:28:05 <ais523> you could use the object placeholder character, I guess
04:28:08 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, that's probably a good idea
04:28:09 <zzo38> Perhaps use class="imagelink"; that way user CSS can override whatever style you decide to use. I don't know what style should be used, though.
04:28:27 <ais523> this one: 
04:28:31 <ais523> although it doesn't render at all for me
04:28:33 <ais523> `unidecode 
04:28:42 <b_jonas> but I still want some default formatting rule for this
04:28:49 <ais523> that's strange, it used to
04:29:08 <ais523> (it looked like "OBJ" in a dotted rectangle)
04:29:17 <ais523> maybe just draw a border around the link?
04:29:25 <ais523> to simulate the shape of an image
04:29:32 <zzo38> Yes, you should still have a default formatting rule so that it will work even if the user did not define such a rule on their own computer, too
04:29:33 <b_jonas> a border... hmm, that might work
04:29:56 <ais523> or even, draw a border, and then put that "missing image" symbol that Internet Explorer uses at the start (I think that's the one that people are most familiar with, not sure what the copyright status of it is)
04:31:30 <b_jonas> ais523: I think the torn photo image could be misinterpreted as implying that the image link was broken which is why I'm not displaying the image. broken image links are pretty common on those boards, with the messages staying longer than the externally hosted image.
04:32:21 <ais523> b_jonas: well, it is broken, isn't it? because you broke it
04:32:26 <ais523> although it'll still work when clicked on
04:32:43 <ais523> maybe this is just a quirk of me, I have my browser set to block images more than a certain number of kilobytes
04:32:50 <ais523> so I'm used to images looking broken but still working when clicked on
04:33:04 <b_jonas> I could try to use a Mona Lisa icon maybe
04:33:40 <b_jonas> or a wooden picture frame hung on the wall with fishing strings and a single nail visible above icon
04:34:06 <ais523> now I'm bothered by the object replacement character not showing up
04:34:16 <ais523> it used to be quite frequent to see it in the middle of copy-pasted text
04:34:23 <ais523> what if it still is, and I simply can't see it?
04:47:01 <keegan> fnord
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07:48:33 <normsaa> for ((i = -25680; i < +22000; i++)) do TZ=Z printf '%s%(%Y%m%d)T' Aaron $((i*86400)) | md5sum ; done > term.txt ; grep -n 7f4986da7d7b52fa81f98278e6ec9dcb
07:48:57 <normsaa> Is there a way to port this bash to an esoteruic language and make it more efficient and faster ?
07:49:08 <normsaa> Can someone show me please?
07:49:27 <normsaa> This has been going for over 40 minutes already
07:49:31 <normsaa> No result
08:00:03 <nakilon> non normsaa answer where was that previous thing from?
08:00:18 <normsaa> What?
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08:02:33 <nakilon> the 0101010
08:03:11 <nakilon> I mean where did your friend take it from
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08:12:56 <nakilon> \wa x^3 - 4x^2 + 6x - 24 = 0
08:12:58 <velik> Real solution: x = 4 | Complex solutions: x = -i sqrt(6), x = i sqrt(6) | Alternate forms: (x - 4) (x^2 + 6) = 0, (x - 4/3)^3 + 2/3 (x - 4/3) - 560/27 = 0
08:13:11 <nakilon> \wa seconds since 1 Jan 1970
08:13:13 <velik> Result: 1.631×10^9 seconds | Time span: 51 years 8 months 11 days, 2697 weeks 3 days, 18882 days, 51.7 years
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08:20:54 <normsaa> nakilon he made it
08:21:01 <normsaa> himself
08:21:17 <normsaa> this one is different
08:21:34 <normsaa> mines still runnning its so slow
08:21:42 <normsaa> my bash
08:22:24 <normsaa> velik how much can you cut it down to?
08:22:27 <normsaa> the speed
08:22:45 <normsaa> to find the passwrd that matches the hash
08:22:53 <normsaa> and nakilon
08:28:11 <nakilon> I suppose int-e was right
08:28:44 <int-e> . o O ( Please tell us more about this "efficiency" idea... it sounds like a fascinating concept. )
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08:28:57 <nakilon> it's a shame to pass off someone else's for your own
08:39:33 <normsaa> int-e well mines forking a new md5sum process each iteration
08:40:11 <normsaa> so it'll be spending all it's time creating a new process and then tearing it down again
08:41:13 <normsaa> So it is not efficient at all
08:41:35 <normsaa> Mine has been running for over 1hour~
08:41:43 <normsaa> on a standard laptop
08:42:47 <normsaa> nakilon not sure what you're on about
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09:26:50 <immibis> fizzie: seems like an outdated model. In Git your history is one big tree and so are your files. In Subversion I understand that your files are a tree but your history is not, and if you want tree history then you have to simulate it poorly with the file tree?
09:27:12 <immibis> (git history is more accurately a DAG not a tree)
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11:40:01 <b_jonas> normsaa: have you checked what those printfs actually print? because you're iterating one second increments rather than one day increments, which is why it's so slow.
11:40:35 <b_jonas> print some intermediate results, like those printfs, to see if they're right, before writing the whole program
11:41:03 <b_jonas> because the statement you gave literally will only check two days, each 20000 times
11:41:23 <b_jonas> but at least now you tried to implement something, so that's a plus
11:42:22 <int-e> b_jonas: hmm? they multiply by 86400 in the middle.
11:42:32 <b_jonas> oh, is there?
11:42:37 <b_jonas> darn, I didn't notice that
11:42:52 <b_jonas> I wonder if they actually wrote that, or got that from a third channel
11:43:03 <int-e> the code is fine. wouldn't even take hours on a linux system I think (didn't for me)
11:43:27 <int-e> yeah, I don't know what to think about that
11:43:36 <nakilon> "my friend made it"
11:44:01 <b_jonas> yes, so got it from a third channel. I'm only seeing their question in two channels.
11:44:15 <b_jonas> oh hey
11:44:47 <b_jonas> they are joined to #bash too, what a surprise
11:45:17 <int-e> I still find it funny to try to hook #esolangs into it by asking for a fast program
11:45:38 <b_jonas> int-e: nah, they are asking for "an efficient solution" everywhere
11:46:17 <nakilon> probably /msg alis list *langu*
11:46:39 <b_jonas> I told them to forget the dates and to just append every decimal number from 19000000 to 23000000 to "Aaron" and it's still fast enough
11:46:41 <nakilon> or *progra*
11:46:49 <nakilon> -topic
11:47:01 <b_jonas> but it's not clear if they even managed to write a single loop
11:47:32 <b_jonas> I think they mentioned a range() for loop in python, that might be one original attempt, but I haven't seen an actual code line on how they'd use it
11:47:37 <nakilon> heh, there is a service to search for exact answer on SO
11:47:55 <nakilon> I imagine similar bot that joins relevant channels in IRC and asks
11:48:07 <int-e> it could also be troll fodder from ##?python
11:48:12 <nakilon> just needs some AI to select the channels
11:48:25 <int-e> it's the kind of helpful advice I'd give that totally evades the meat of the question :P
11:49:18 <int-e> possibly along with advice to look at hashlib and datetime
11:49:57 <nakilon> IRC is a network of clusters of AI processes
11:50:12 <nakilon> this cluster has 86 processes, some of them are emitting STDOUT
11:50:40 <b_jonas> nakilon: no, we would tell them to look at the hashlib module
11:50:44 <nakilon> some implement IPC
11:51:27 <b_jonas> oh, they are in #python . darn it. I wasn't joined there for some reason, that's why I didn't see
11:52:47 <b_jonas> no wait, they aren't
11:52:50 <b_jonas> I'm stupid
11:52:54 <b_jonas> they didn't get past the nickserv barrier
11:53:58 <b_jonas> well, the "no, it's not homework" thing is funny for a few days, and then they'll get bored
11:54:01 <b_jonas> so no harm done
11:54:24 <b_jonas> it's at least a refreshingly novel kind of user
11:54:29 <nakilon> I wonder if there really were any IPC systems based on IRC
11:54:47 <b_jonas> nakilon: there are, for controlling botnets
11:55:00 <b_jonas> malware ones
11:55:25 <nakilon> I mean not some real chat channels with multiple bots built through years but some approach to solve problems by spawning a server in your network and proccesses around
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11:55:30 <nakilon> hm
11:56:28 <b_jonas> I wonder if we should explain them what we mean by "homework" in this case
11:57:00 <nakilon> I doubt he needs any explanation
11:57:44 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88012&oldid=86767 * Martsadas * (+59)
11:58:03 <int-e> nakilon: IRC used to be popular for controlling botnets for a while
11:58:16 <int-e> which comes pretty close to IPC
12:07:40 <nakilon> imagine esolang that can transfer values only between clients/machines
12:08:02 <nakilon> and can't transfer values between registers/memory_addresses within one client/machine
12:08:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88013&oldid=86756 * Martsadas * (+164) !@#$%^&*()_+
12:08:31 <nakilon> so to run a program you have to have multiple machines
12:09:45 <normsaa> Your conversations are hilarious to read
12:09:59 <normsaa> Love a good whinge
12:10:09 <nakilon> so it's like some form of life that stops working when there are no other creatures of your kind
12:10:55 <normsaa> And your assumptions are totoally wrong too.
12:11:09 <normsaa> Which makes it even more hilarious
12:11:13 <b_jonas> google finds disappointingly few results for 7f4986da7d7b52fa81f98278e6ec9dcb right now. only two.
12:11:48 <normsaa> Yes which I already showed in the jsoftware channel
12:11:57 <normsaa> And I pasted it here too
12:12:03 <normsaa> I said someone else did that
12:12:13 <normsaa> That gist
12:12:34 <normsaa> So whats your point?
12:13:12 <normsaa> Your OSINT isnt very good.
12:13:55 <normsaa> I did the bash script though.
12:14:00 <normsaa> Not the J script.
12:14:16 <normsaa> I finished a working version of the bash script first though
12:14:41 <nakilon> it makes no sense
12:16:00 <normsaa> What makes no sense?
12:16:14 <normsaa> Please clarify when you say "makes no sense"
12:16:26 <normsaa> Does the ground make no sense?
12:16:37 <normsaa> Does the sky make no sense?
12:16:50 <nakilon> you make no sense
12:16:56 <normsaa> Please clarify what you mean, dont give a general statement.
12:17:04 <normsaa> Of nothing.
12:17:31 <normsaa> In what way?
12:17:39 <normsaa> Please clarify how I am make no sense.
12:17:52 <nakilon> I'm not here to clarify things for one with such attitude that asks others to solve his contests lieing on both sides
12:17:52 <int-e> fungot: seems like you have some serious competition now
12:17:53 <fungot> int-e: right now, i'm heading for home.
12:17:53 <normsaa> Give me a reason
12:18:23 <nakilon> sounds like he gave up
12:18:48 <normsaa> I asked for help.
12:18:56 <normsaa> I did not ask for anyone to do it for me.
12:19:11 <normsaa> Gave up?
12:19:22 <normsaa> I wrote a bash script that solved it.,
12:19:27 <normsaa> So I didnt give up.
12:19:58 <normsaa> And I did not do it with anyones help from here.
12:20:24 <int-e> re-mark-ab-le
12:20:47 <normsaa> It is, I dn't have an ego though.
12:21:04 <normsaa> As i am still learnng and accept my failings.
12:21:25 <normsaa> Like most nerds who have egos.
12:21:43 <esolangs> [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88014&oldid=82311 * RocketRace * (+73) add resource
12:21:45 <normsaa> And are just condescending to people learning.
12:21:59 <normsaa> I.e int-e
12:22:28 <nakilon> fungot do you have ego?
12:22:28 <fungot> nakilon: i know. i use it for. fnord hand*' he means what he had for arch's config language, i didn't hear it
12:22:28 <int-e> Sure. Are you done?
12:22:34 <normsaa> Humble yourself.
12:22:38 <normsaa> Sure. Are you?
12:23:00 <normsaa> As you had a whole conversation just about me earlier in here.
12:23:00 <esolangs> [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88015&oldid=88014 * RocketRace * (-2) Formatting
12:23:05 <nakilon> fungot where is your home?
12:23:06 <fungot> nakilon: there's my better version. :) :( getting really worried.
12:23:28 <normsaa> So if you are done, then I am done.
12:25:27 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88016&oldid=80032 * RocketRace * (+102) Add resource
12:25:41 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88017&oldid=88016 * RocketRace * (+1) Formatting
12:29:11 <nakilon> I don't understand what is unstack
12:29:17 <b_jonas> "<normsaa> I did not ask for anyone to do it for me." => yes, that's what I said. asking someone to do it for you would be plain boring, we have those kinds of people on support forums every day. asking “Can someone try it with J bot? / Curious to see how long it takes” is new, I haven't seen that one yet, so it gives some variety to the usually boring homework questions. that's why I said it's nice
12:29:24 <b_jonas> for a few days.
12:29:58 <b_jonas> ideally I should write one of these silly obfuscated answers that happen to give the right answer for the wrong reason, but I'm kind of busy with real life so I'm not sure I'll do it
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12:33:46 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88018&oldid=88017 * RocketRace * (+83) Describe extension
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12:45:23 <normsaa> b_jonas youre on IRC all day I dont think youre busy with real life, lets be real.
12:45:41 <normsaa> Quit lying to yourself.
12:46:13 <normsaa> If you have the time to search and write paragraphs you have no real life. Just being honest.
12:47:20 <nakilon> and they tell me pithon does not have bad mental influence
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13:20:06 <esolangs> [[Kolmogorov]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88019&oldid=59479 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+160) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Kolmogorov programming language on GitHub.
13:33:52 <esolangs> [[School]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88020&oldid=88007 * AceKiron * (+124)
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14:15:32 <riv> https://twitter.com/JDHamkins/status/1437021245602738184 hmm ordinal nim
14:15:41 <riv> even though the numbers are infinite the game ends in finite time
14:16:30 <riv> ω = 2^ω apparently
14:21:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88021&oldid=88011 * 4gboframram * (+165) /* Mycelium Hello, World! */
14:26:14 <Corbin> normsaa: If you weren't on-topic in #ocaml, why would you be on-topic here?
14:27:55 <Corbin> (Also, by what reasoning are esoteric languages more performant than mainstream languages? It's often the other way around, since only mainstream languages have companies paying for specialized compiler engineers.)
14:30:58 <riv> k
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16:15:56 <esolangs> [[OOLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88022&oldid=66457 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+24) Added the deadlink tag to obsolete hyperlinks and amended an orthographic error.
16:33:31 <esolangs> [[Kolmogorov]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88023&oldid=88019 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1080) Amended orthography, corrected examples, especially involving the comments' quotes, and improved the code formatting.
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17:14:54 <fizzie> Is $ the default mutt key binding for 'sync-mailbox' because that (potentially) involves network activity, and network activity may cost money?
17:21:06 <int-e> it could also be inspired by S = sync
17:21:14 <int-e> And... I don't know
17:23:41 <fizzie> Plausible. Though it would seem that "S" is unused. (Small "s" is used for save-message.)
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19:27:02 <esolangs> [[Kolmogorov]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88024&oldid=88023 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+570) Added the cat program as a further example.
19:31:30 <esolangs> [[User:AceKiron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88025&oldid=84589 * AceKiron * (+0)
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20:02:22 <esolangs> [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88026&oldid=88015 * RocketRace * (+37) Clarify argless ops
20:02:59 <esolangs> [[Subreal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88027&oldid=88026 * RocketRace * (+39) FOrmat
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21:32:43 <esolangs> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88028&oldid=82533 * Fmbalbuena * (-13)
21:33:43 <esolangs> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88029&oldid=88028 * Fmbalbuena * (-177)
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21:38:38 <esolangs> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88030&oldid=88029 * Fmbalbuena * (-14)
21:47:50 <esolangs> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88031&oldid=88030 * Fmbalbuena * (+14) Undo revision 88030 by [[Special:Contributions/Fmbalbuena|Fmbalbuena]] ([[User talk:Fmbalbuena|talk]])
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22:30:51 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88032&oldid=86391 * Digital Hunter * (+399) /* Look-and-say sequence */ added a generalised version that takes an input
22:36:11 <shachaf> What sort of esolang is this? https://cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2021-September/022861.html
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22:42:56 <Corbin> It's a string-rewriting system akin to Thue, I think.
22:43:31 <Corbin> Imagine that Thue's program states are restricted to bitstrings. Then a Thue program is Friedman's R and GEN(R) is the set of possible intermediate program states.
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23:09:51 <fizzie> I do like sudo's "This incident has been reported to the authorities" message.
23:44:36 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88033&oldid=87884 * Spargle * (-108) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
23:51:02 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88034&oldid=88033 * Spargle * (-236) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
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