> 1632096303 423634 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 030utdacious 5* 10New user account > 1632096547 452426 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88103&oldid=88091 5* 030utdacious 5* (+349) 10/* Introductions */ < 1632098728 85518 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Heh. Made an inventory of a toolbox. One of the things in there was this solder dispenser with *really* old-fashioned styling (not sure if it's actually old, or just deliberately kept retro) from a manufacturer in Hemel Hempstead. I feel like I've brought it (from Finland) back to the land of its birth. < 1632098792 261945 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Looks quite a bit like http://thewholegaragecatalogue.blogspot.com/2014/12/an-ersin-multicore-solder-dispenser.html > 1632098985 559069 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88104 5* 030utdacious 5* (+3374) 10Create a minimal language page for sona > 1632099080 851527 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88105&oldid=88067 5* 030utdacious 5* (+11) 10/* S */ > 1632099637 863653 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88106&oldid=88104 5* 030utdacious 5* (+357) 10 < 1632101323 397454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1632102048 605371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88107&oldid=88106 5* 030utdacious 5* (+1989) 10Added language details > 1632102130 642913 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 030utdacious 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Sona interpreter.png10]]" > 1632102171 771184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88109&oldid=88107 5* 030utdacious 5* (-58) 10 > 1632102235 492686 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88110&oldid=88109 5* 030utdacious 5* (+12) 10 > 1632102321 615696 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88111&oldid=88110 5* 030utdacious 5* (+20) 10 > 1632102399 880486 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88112&oldid=88111 5* 030utdacious 5* (+63) 10 > 1632102437 662455 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sona14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88113&oldid=88112 5* 030utdacious 5* (+4) 10/* Turing equivalence */ > 1632103547 409423 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88114&oldid=88093 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+2033) 10 > 1632103645 266349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88115&oldid=88114 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+13) 10 > 1632103928 491957 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88116&oldid=88115 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+198) 10 > 1632104275 455580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88117&oldid=87628 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+118) 10 > 1632104347 405433 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88118&oldid=88117 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+118) 10/* LCCBED */ > 1632104433 538651 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88119&oldid=88118 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (-16) 10/* LCCBED */ > 1632104625 893806 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88120&oldid=87704 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+52) 10/* Implementations */ > 1632106231 958864 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88121&oldid=88116 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+0) 10/* Truth machine (thanks, Keymaker!) */ > 1632106335 497868 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88122&oldid=88121 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+14) 10/* Language overview */ > 1632106676 625614 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88123&oldid=88122 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+231) 10/* Instructions */ > 1632106893 985075 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88124&oldid=88123 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+2) 10/* Simple single-digit addition */ > 1632108356 856926 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88125&oldid=88124 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+37) 10/* Examples */ > 1632108382 41366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88126&oldid=88125 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+2) 10/* Without comments */ > 1632108761 303466 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Iamn00b14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88127&oldid=88092 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+37) 10 > 1632108781 219922 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Iamn00b14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88128&oldid=88127 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+6) 10 > 1632108811 831538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Iamn00b14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88129&oldid=88128 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (-7) 10 > 1632109034 142736 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88130&oldid=88126 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+8) 10 > 1632109236 655466 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Staxel14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88131 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+221) 10Created page with "[[Staxel]] is an [[esolang]] created by [[User:Iamn00b|iamn00b]] in 2021. It works by using a combination of [[stack|stacks]] and cells (hence the name, Stack + Cell). The lan..." < 1632112197 560595 :xylochoron[m]!~xylochoro@2001:470:69fc:105::e2e1 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112197 729109 :mich181189!sid268336@londonhackspace/mich181189 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112197 729154 :FireFly!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112197 761365 :orin!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112197 793734 :MrAureliusR!~MrAureliu@user/mraureliusr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112223 336583 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN #esolangs oren :oren < 1632112223 411296 :mich181189!sid268336@londonhackspace/mich181189 JOIN #esolangs mich181189 :Michael < 1632112240 438268 :FireFly!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly JOIN #esolangs FireFly :firefly < 1632112243 350525 :MrAureliusR!~MrAureliu@user/mraureliusr JOIN #esolangs MrAureliusR :Got ZNC? < 1632112742 115280 :xylochoron[m]!~xylochoro@2001:470:69fc:105::e2e1 JOIN #esolangs * :@xylochoron:matrix.org < 1632112898 735131 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112898 735199 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112898 735227 :V!~v@anomalous.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112898 884812 :phdu!~phdumatri@2001:470:69fc:105::e6b6 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112898 938574 :integral!sid296274@user/integral QUIT :*.net *.split < 1632112925 652554 :V!~v@anomalous.eu JOIN #esolangs V :Wie? < 1632112953 837732 :integral!sid296274@user/integral JOIN #esolangs integral :bsmith < 1632112980 199981 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1632113163 955657 :phdu!~phdumatri@2001:470:69fc:105::e6b6 JOIN #esolangs * :@phdu:matrix.org < 1632113629 236037 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1632118548 247805 :simcop2387_!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1632118637 986152 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1632118681 638284 :simcop2387_!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 NICK :simcop2387 < 1632118731 802069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1632120430 521526 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88132&oldid=88130 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+4) 10 < 1632121236 494451 :FireFly!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1 < 1632121256 639184 :FireFly!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly JOIN #esolangs FireFly :firefly < 1632121269 259965 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1632123448 334815 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1632125151 638151 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1632125352 634552 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1632129349 129169 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1632130377 191211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :we should start to say that someone who's sleeping as "adorn", not "asleep", because making the adjective from the same root as the verb is too boring for English, hoarder of words < 1632130392 460083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, how many times a month are you adorn? > 1632131163 211524 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Staxel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88133&oldid=88131 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (-54) 10 < 1632131684 402140 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a JOIN #esolangs fungot :fungot-0.1 > 1632132762 483045 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Iamn00b14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88134&oldid=88129 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+267) 10 > 1632132841 333227 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88135&oldid=88132 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (-59) 10 > 1632132949 872213 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88136&oldid=88135 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+0) 10/* Instructions */ > 1632133066 935879 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88137&oldid=88136 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (-1) 10/* //TODO// Allan please add content */ < 1632133827 548448 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 JOIN #esolangs * :Everything < 1632134591 861348 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him < 1632136283 451406 :Thelie!~Thelie@business-24-134-17-157.pool2.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs * :Thelie < 1632137052 694912 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Can't you expose some metrics or something, I never notice when you go away? < 1632137052 785816 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: because of the < 1632137063 787627 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Because of the what? < 1632137063 960632 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: consider siscweb. they all look the same < 1632137321 944733 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN #esolangs imode :imode < 1632138111 630442 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch JOIN #esolangs DutchIngraham :dutch < 1632138583 610100 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632138716 276653 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen < 1632139584 79534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: how do you feel about imperials rather than metrics? < 1632139584 211864 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes you do, < 1632139597 632251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: I what? < 1632139597 817088 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: or is it just for the record, it's not the computations, it the scale. < 1632139630 86729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: it's mostly for the record < 1632139630 297948 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: anyone familiar with the scheme48 module system that makes it sound more palatable. < 1632139656 389689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`' palatable < 1632139658 436565 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output. < 1632139686 640087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(No palatable quotes, figures.) > 1632141068 130231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88138&oldid=88103 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+42) 10 > 1632141136 681147 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gluck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88139&oldid=88102 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+2) 10 > 1632141231 798642 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gluck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88140&oldid=88139 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+46) 10 > 1632141253 601077 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gluck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88141&oldid=88140 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+3) 10 < 1632141280 113207 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fi:pala = en:piece. So a "palatable" is some sort of a modular table constructed out of smaller pieces. < 1632141552 687151 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: see you later > 1632141830 722918 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88142&oldid=88105 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+13) 10/* L */ > 1632142737 503850 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03LEOMOK 5* 10New user account < 1632143824 680742 :Thelie!~Thelie@business-24-134-17-157.pool2.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632144312 937143 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv < 1632144913 603667 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632145209 340264 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1632145285 692769 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him < 1632145362 470807 :river!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1632145428 463592 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1632146122 643345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: sorry, I don't find that funny because "palatábla" is already a word in hungarian, it means slate tablet, the flat object that students used to write temporary writings on in order to learn writing, back when paper was too expensive for that < 1632146267 446713 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1632147128 191402 :src!~src@user/src JOIN #esolangs src :realname < 1632147197 264458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632147305 112395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal < 1632147901 256564 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1632147904 285165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88143&oldid=87911 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+9) 10 < 1632148201 16750 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 JOIN #esolangs delta23 :delta23__ < 1632148585 299197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632148675 748657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal < 1632149003 738112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :@bot < 1632149003 818223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs ::) < 1632149031 392815 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(upgraded to bullseye) > 1632149251 169177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88144&oldid=88137 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+14) 10 < 1632149898 286164 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( Distro upgrade... that's a lot to unpack. ) < 1632149904 899564 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1632149974 445416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice int-e < 1632150068 192391 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1632150081 380507 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1632151130 193704 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1632151156 637798 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1632151565 545225 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632151621 266404 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN #esolangs int-e :Bertram < 1632152042 968594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :good so far... let's see if email's still working < 1632152183 921361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yay, it works > 1632152242 37201 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88145&oldid=88144 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+28) 10/* Brainf*** equivalent */ < 1632152280 320088 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Err, those status notices were meant to go to another channel. < 1632152831 384538 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632152848 264510 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen < 1632154082 890265 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632154165 309757 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer JOIN #esolangs dyeplexer :t b k ky jt h bc > 1632155159 329075 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Viba 5* 10New user account < 1632155678 559192 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :Maeve Sproule < 1632155787 569531 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1632155789 580742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88146&oldid=88138 5* 03Viba 5* (+429) 10 < 1632155876 265604 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1632156128 938196 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1632156306 709694 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? economics < 1632156309 247263 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Economics is just applied numerology. < 1632156325 895854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( `learn Economics is the science of hindsight. ) < 1632156383 219257 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 PART :#esolangs < 1632158665 407607 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632158868 213466 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1632159202 561350 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1632159782 29764 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632159905 631329 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1632160044 648002 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river > 1632160462 321142 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88147&oldid=88145 5* 03Iamn00b 5* (+22) 10 < 1632161106 265855 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :Maeve Sproule < 1632162459 926237 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1632162749 269906 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1632163432 778203 :Thelie!~Thelie@business-24-134-17-157.pool2.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs * :Thelie < 1632163778 194276 :vyv!~vyv@bras-vprn-nrbaon0452w-lp130-17-76-68-65-112.dsl.bell.ca JOIN #esolangs vyv :vyv verver < 1632165458 722784 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: see you tomorrow > 1632166073 967359 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Timofeyka 5* 10New user account > 1632166154 558275 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88148&oldid=88146 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (+44) 10/* Introductions */ > 1632166206 537910 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88149&oldid=88148 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (+49) 10/* Introductions */ < 1632166221 155775 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.2.1 > 1632166238 809741 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88150&oldid=88149 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (+91) 10/* Introductions */ < 1632166479 405552 :Thelie!~Thelie@business-24-134-17-157.pool2.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1632166554 266571 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch JOIN #esolangs DutchIngraham :dutch > 1632167100 695786 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LCCBED14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88151&oldid=88147 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-22) 10This is not featured > 1632167184 10599 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EPL-Main14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88152 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (+886) 10Created page with "'''EPL Main''' is a compiled high-level assembler written in D by Timofeyka. '''EPL Main''' can be used as a regular language(like the same C), for osdev, it is useful in perf..." > 1632167237 836120 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EPL-Main14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88153&oldid=88152 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (-886) 10Blanked the page > 1632167248 941714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Timofeyka 5* 10moved [[02EPL-Main10]] to [[EPL Main]] > 1632167342 881819 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EPL Main14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88156&oldid=88154 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (+884) 10 > 1632167444 532910 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88157&oldid=88142 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (+15) 10 > 1632167568 929017 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EPL Main14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88158&oldid=88156 5* 03Timofeyka 5* (-9) 10 < 1632167645 264272 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1632167915 648076 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632168093 213584 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :Maeve Sproule < 1632168659 239775 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel JOIN #esolangs earendel :AmoreFS > 1632169049 612617 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Aboba228 5* 10New user account < 1632169223 152996 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1632169515 958717 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88159&oldid=88150 5* 03Aboba228 5* (+35) 10/* Introductions */ > 1632169682 630203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EPL Main14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88160&oldid=88158 5* 03Aboba228 5* (-470) 10Corrected to truth < 1632171296 167488 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1632171651 21753 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632171797 732523 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1632172006 248294 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1632172056 2986 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1632172174 473216 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1632172354 281536 :src_!~src@user/src JOIN #esolangs src :realname < 1632172454 263638 :src__!~src@user/src JOIN #esolangs src :realname < 1632172535 172285 :src!~src@user/src QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1632172649 243344 :src_!~src@user/src QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1632176328 289172 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1632176477 166489 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1632176503 627558 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :language design: suppose I have a language with a strict separation between things that are immutable/pure values, and object-ish things that can be changed at runtime < 1632176553 262896 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm mentally playing around with a restriction in which object-ish things can't be returned from functions or stored in fields of values or object-ish things (although you can pass them by reference as function/method parameters) < 1632176578 878994 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my question is: is this too severe a restriction for practical use? or can you write most programs that want mutable things in this form? < 1632176628 731562 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would solve a huge number of problems (at least three, more likely somewhere around five) if it were usable restriction, but it feels like it might make things too hard (also it feels like esoprogrammers are the right people to ask about something like this) < 1632176663 903442 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the most obvious issue I see is with creating the objects in the first place – you'd have to start them off uninitialized, and have "initializers" as opposed to constructors < 1632176908 387371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: would that be like ancient (pre-book) C, the one where you can't use structs as function parameters or returns? < 1632177299 657951 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also think it can be interesting idea, having separate immutable/pure values with changeable ones, for some things it will be helpful, I think. However, for other things it isn't, so I would not expect such a thing to be mandatory for programming languages like C, although if optional it can be useful. For some kinds of programming languages (especially domain specific), being mandatory can also be useful. < 1632177335 968803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or machine code where you have a fixed number of registers for parameters and returns, and anything bigger than that you have to put somewhere in the memory, possibly on the stack < 1632177402 10093 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, that can be the case and will be different for different instruction sets too (also depending on calling conventions, which might also vary) < 1632177402 980577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like imagine MMIX where you basically can't index the stack with a variable index, so you have to put large or variable sized structures in the memory somewhere other than the default stack < 1632177413 907462 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs : ais523: would that be like ancient (pre-book) C, the one where you can't use structs as function parameters or returns? ← that was one of the inspirations – even in modern C, you can't rely on returning structs to be efficient < 1632177422 322155 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even though you can express it < 1632177446 416280 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one of the things I dislike about Rust is that it makes it easy to do that by mistake, and also leaves it unclear as to whether it will/can be optimised or not < 1632177476 907736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Free Hero Mesh a lot uses a struct of two 32-bit integers as parameters and return values, though < 1632177496 574037 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs : like imagine MMIX where you basically can't index the stack with a variable index, so you have to put large or variable sized structures in the memory somewhere other than the default stack ← several people, including me, want to write x86 in that sort of style to help avoid stack-based security vulnerabilities, although I think some of them have found that the performance is unacceptable < 1632177503 939548 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And I think we have found that in that case at least on 64-bit x86, it is efficient) < 1632177509 244803 :src__!~src@user/src QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1632177555 119236 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: that should be fine, I think up to 16 bytes, just copying the bytes will be faster than the alternatives < 1632177717 709860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1632177720 832143 :vyv!~vyv@bras-vprn-nrbaon0452w-lp130-17-76-68-65-112.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: Konversation terminated! < 1632178138 406239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: it's certainly easier now that we have vector instructions to just load large structures from the stack < 1632178149 390287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like 32 bytes with one instruction < 1632178159 828828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, there's the stack alignment problme < 1632178435 984735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1632178764 67848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs : we should start to say that someone who's sleeping as "adorn", not "asleep", <-- i don't think "adorn" is adorned with that meaning hth < 1632178837 721381 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I agree that it's fairly easy, but it's still an overhead < 1632178864 901347 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as soon as the copy is slower than dereferencing the pointer on every access is (somewhere between 16 and 32 bytes, I think), then avoiding the copy is an advantage < 1632178903 30655 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :stack alignment actually isn't so much of a problem nowadays, I expect that the cost of aligning the stack is actually greater than the cost of doing unaligned block copies on the stack < 1632178949 301218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I mean very often you want to pass small fixed-sized structures on the stack, and now you can do that easily and load them to registers and such < 1632178958 404728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also just pass them in registers without the stack < 1632178973 467284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's just a quantitative difference but helps a lot < 1632178980 303265 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: most of these things would be immutable, anyway < 1632179052 110176 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :copying mutable things around is weird because it makes it unclear whether the copy changes when the original does < 1632179095 157338 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is another of my motivations behind making mutable things nonreturnable and only passed by reference – it would mean any copy would have to be explicit, making it completely clear whether two things shared or not) < 1632179260 822759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs : (upgraded to bullseye) <-- bullseye? that looked like an ordinary smiley to me hth < 1632179318 210603 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :In PostScript also, copies are explicit (you must use the copy command, otherwise you just get an alias), although it is possible to pass a read-only alias to an object that other aliases are writable, or an alias of only a part of something. In C also, you can pass a pointer to something which is "const" even if the other one isn't < 1632179337 477226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know. I like the freedom of passing and returning fixed-size objects in C++ and rust. it lets me write abstractions in a clean way, and lets the optimizer decide how to implement the copy. < 1632179647 89460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I understand why you may want something like python or ruby where, when you pass a mutable object as an argument or return it, it always just passes the reference, and copying the mutable object is explicit < 1632179842 847300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't that also what Java does? < 1632179849 844870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :did Java basically invent that model? < 1632179864 132088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no it didn't, because lisp AND smalltalk do it too < 1632179877 379513 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Java just popularized it < 1632179909 257115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not talking too much nonsense about Java, am I? < 1632179915 403125 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the Java model is, primitives always pass by value, objects always pass by reference < 1632179956 818624 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can return object references from methods even if they weren't given as input – object references are primitives that can be passed by value < 1632179969 640979 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and a garbage collector is used to handle the obvious memory handling issues this causes < 1632180081 351303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right. so the same model as python, ruby, lisp, smalltalk. < 1632180143 404396 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this also implies that objects are never stack-allocated, they're always on the heap < 1632180198 535614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah. smalltalk probably invented that model. < 1632180214 815855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I quite like what python made of it < 1632180255 762135 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this model works fairly well for immutable things, but not for mutable things < 1632180274 127662 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it leaves the aliasing situation very unclear, for example < 1632180284 898971 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-195-022.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :All I can think of is the Haskell model, where the only mutable things are explicit references that require special operations to read and write, with the handle used for this itself being an immutable value. < 1632180310 941445 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it has issues with dangling pointers (which won't cause memory corruption, but will nonetheless still point to outdated objects that should no longer exist) < 1632180340 935923 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Melvar: OCaml does that too, so I've worked with it extensively < 1632180351 814226 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(one of my previous jobs was in OCaml) < 1632180369 541623 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :except, it's more commonly used in OCaml than Haskell (because it's a strict language and so the order of side effects like that is easier to understand) < 1632180416 705886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-104.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :... and then there's prolog < 1632180430 966891 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-195-022.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right, in Haskell these operations have IO types (or ST) and thus must be explicitly sequenced, which makes them yet more different and hard to invoke by accident. < 1632180547 689292 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-195-022.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :They must also be created explicitly, and the creation requires supplying an initial value, so at least there’s no uninitialized ref problem. < 1632180601 321287 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :OCaml also requires that < 1632180614 874316 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, sometimes you have to just put in a placeholder value, which loses half the advantage < 1632180648 559130 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the solution most languages use nowadays is to allow you to create them uninitialized, but not use them unless they've become initialized along all possible control flow paths < 1632180687 397092 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. in Rust you can write «let x; if (y) { x = 4; } else { x = 5; } println!("{}", x)», but if you removed either of the assignments to x it wouldn't compile < 1632180706 195813 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-195-022.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which requires special builtin language support. < 1632180708 226952 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think Java might do that too, but I'm not sure < 1632180709 819116 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep < 1632180727 93595 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mutability, to me, is the sort of thing that it's reasonable for a language to special-case because it has so many consequences < 1632180782 957975 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-195-022.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah in Haskell you would have to «do x <- if y then newIORef 4 else newIORef 5; print =<< readIORef x» < 1632180821 884323 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah right, I actually like that, you're allocating at the moment the value is known < 1632180901 487499 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-195-022.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :That involves returning the ref though, so you now have to take care of that. < 1632181225 203877 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, it's one of those things that's very clear from the mathematical point of view, but needs compiler magic to implement efficiently behind the scenes < 1632181733 492077 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, in Haskell there is IORef. Some programs make global variables by setting the optimizer settings and using unsafe I/O, but I odn't like that, it isn't very good mathematically and isn't how Haskell is supposed to be working, I think. An alternative I thought is to use a class, and then each global variable is named by a type that has that class