00:00:40 ais523: but also according to https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/std/mem/fn.discriminant.html rust calls "discriminant" the number that tells only which constructor is used in an enum value, without the parameters for that constructor 00:00:52 and that page talks about "enum variant" 00:01:45 ais523: your question is vague enough that haskell's "algebraic datatype" seems to apply 00:02:10 "https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/reference/items/enumerations.html" mentions "variant", "constructor", and "discriminant" 00:02:23 oh hum 00:02:28 also "enum variant" 00:02:45 misread the question, i think. what b_jonas said. 00:03:27 (i interpreted "variant" in the colloquial sense) 00:04:06 they're sum types, so call them "terms"? 00:04:09 and product types have factors? 00:04:30 you might also try to look in C++ papers, because they use "constructor" for something else so they will probably have different terms 00:07:53 Each of the various different things in an std::variant is an alternative, but that's probably not quite the same. 00:09:11 . o O ( are all these different word for it meta-variants ) 00:09:14 *s 00:12:22 keegan: Prolog uses "term" but I think that also includes things like integers, which I want to exclude from this 00:12:38 . o O ( a programming language with obstructors and instructors ) 00:12:40 that said, an integer is probably actually a special case of this in Prolog 00:12:51 you might look in http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0095r0.html and its followup papers, that's the paper that suggests first class support for rust-like enums into C++, but I don't know what its afterlife is and what followup papers there are 00:13:01 ais523: i think "functor" is the prolog term? 00:13:13 I think functor might be the name for the tag specifically? not sure though 00:13:24 I have some prolog docs open at the moment, I've been trying to figure this out 00:13:50 looks like "functor" specifically refers to the tag plus the number of arguments 00:13:56 e.g. the functor of a(b,c) is a/2 00:14:39 oh, got it: the precise Prolog term for what I'm looking for is "compound term" 00:16:51 I guess there probably isn't a standard name? this is surprising 00:18:30 -!- hendursaga has quit (Quit: hendursaga). 00:18:44 hmm, "tagged union" seems fairly universal as a general name for the type these things belong to, but "tagged union value" is a bit of a mouthful 00:18:49 Hm, are we allowing infinite unions? It would be surprising if an integer were a tag value, since that would be hard to exhaustively code against. 00:18:58 -!- hendursaga has joined. 00:20:10 I've always known that stuff as tagged unions, ais523. 00:21:07 Corbin: Prolog does, but I'm not planning to 00:21:31 imode: right, I was looking for a name for the sort of thing that's a value of a tagged union (without necessarily needing to indicate which union it belongs to) 00:22:20 hm. value, I guess? good question.. 00:24:15 the context is that I'm making a vaguely jsonlike format that handles tagged union / list / integer rather than dictionary / list / integer in a way that maps across languages (primarily for internally representing ASTs in a language I'm writing, although if it ends up useful in other contexts too I have no problem with that) 00:27:36 currently I'm leaning towards "term" to represent these, but there's one major issue with that, that discourages me: because I'm extensively representing ASTs in this sort of format, it's going to come into context with grammars a lot, and in the context of a grammar, it represents a nonterminal rather than a terminal 00:29:07 (so calling it "term" may be a little confusing juts due to the similarity of names) 00:29:13 I may go with it anyway though 00:34:45 I guess "object" isn't horrible 00:35:05 or maybe there's some sort of definition, defining it by what it isn't (it isn't a number or list) 00:42:29 Do you have other data formats other than union/list/integer (such as byte sequences)? 01:33:43 zzo38: I've been considering strings, but I think I'm going to represent them as lists of codepoints 01:33:53 (where the codepoitns are integers) 01:34:28 also floats but those don't map neatly between languages 01:35:10 How big are integers allowed to be in this format? 01:52:41 Also, do you have a document? 01:55:40 zzo38: I think it should allow bignums (although not all programs will be able to read them) 01:56:09 and I don't have a document yet because I'm still designing it, I need to work out the details before I can write them down 01:56:15 OK 02:19:53 ais523: I'm not surprised that there's no standard name yet. these are functional programming concepts, they have all kinds of conflicting names between multiple programming languages that reinvent them with different variants, just like the list operations 02:20:45 and I think that's a terminology that won't be covered by TAOCP so that can't spread a name either 02:24:34 we have names like monad and you're wondering why there's no standard name yet? all of them are invented or obscure. :P 02:42:37 "monad" is the standard name for a monad, though 02:43:24 There's not even a clear preference for "sum" vs "coproduct" here. 02:53:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:27:05 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88477&oldid=88476 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+130) fixed some inline code blocks 03:31:43 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88478&oldid=88477 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+30) replaced 'hate' with 'strongly disapprove of' 03:34:00 [[AutomataFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88479&oldid=88478 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+173) added link to more examples 03:34:43 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88480&oldid=88479 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+4) fixed github link 03:40:29 clearly they should have kept the name "triple" for monads, would have avoided so much confusion hth 03:40:30 [[AutomataFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88481&oldid=88480 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+214) added adder example 03:41:08 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88482&oldid=88481 * GoodCoderBBoy * (-49) Removed partial sentence 03:43:10 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88483&oldid=88482 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+4) Added full-stops / periods / circular-punctuation-which-follows-the-end-of-a-sentence. 03:47:23 [[User:GoodCoderBBoy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88484 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+217) create page 03:48:34 [[User talk:GoodCoderBBoy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88485 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+224) created page 04:20:01 [[Composite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88486 * ArthroStar11 * (+2946) created page and provided link to my interpreter 04:21:40 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88487&oldid=88469 * ArthroStar11 * (+16) added my language "Composite" 04:22:43 [[User:ArthroStar11]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88488&oldid=87640 * ArthroStar11 * (+132) 04:26:02 "monad" just doesn't come up much, Haskell is the only one that has it as a full abstraction, as opposed to just particular monads 04:27:33 "Monad" and other names are used in mathematics, and can also be used in a computer program 04:29:24 and they already have "burrito" as the alternate name, maybe that's what the next generation will call it 04:35:48 burrito was the worst song 04:43:43 Do you know what should be a convention of suffix of file names of composite puzzle sets? (No suffix is required, although perhaps there should be the convention, to be distinguish from non-composite puzzle sets) 04:51:05 ais523: I've heard "summand" sometimes, for part of a sum. 04:51:19 Actually, I saw "summand" too sometimes 05:06:26 Is there a implementation of UNIX compress/uncompress that implements the Quasijarus compression format other than Quasijarus? (I could write one without too much difficulty, but would want to know if there already is in any Linux package) 05:12:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:09:54 [[Talk:XSVL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88489 * ArthroStar11 * (+1182) Created page with "== some observations == Hey, I was looking through your source code and noticed a couple of things. It's perfectly fine the way it is but I feel these may be helpful if you go..." 06:15:58 [[Talk:XSVL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88490&oldid=88489 * ArthroStar11 * (+0) fixed typo in example code 06:15:58 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:54:09 -!- Thelie has joined. 07:12:53 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:13:04 -!- immibis has joined. 07:29:46 -!- tromp has joined. 07:32:47 [[User talk:GoodCoderBBoy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88491&oldid=88485 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+35) added esolangs created list 07:33:00 [[User talk:GoodCoderBBoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88492&oldid=88491 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+2) fixed link 07:34:36 [[User talk:GoodCoderBBoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88493&oldid=88492 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+0) fixed link 07:34:49 [[User:GoodCoderBBoy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88494&oldid=88484 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+44) added esolangs created list 07:42:54 [[AutomataFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88495&oldid=88483 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+374) added exit conditions 07:44:52 -!- river has joined. 07:46:12 [[AutomataFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88496&oldid=88495 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+48) AutomataFuck DOES NOT SUPPORT NESTED LOOPS. 07:48:01 [[AutomataFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88497&oldid=88496 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+50) how do nested loops behave 07:49:24 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88498&oldid=88497 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+15) code execution updated 07:52:44 [[AutomataFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88499&oldid=88498 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+99) implementations section 08:05:28 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:08:48 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:18:21 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:22:30 -!- tromp has joined. 08:33:03 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88500&oldid=88499 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+159) Details and corrections 09:19:04 [[AutomataFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88501&oldid=88500 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+1) moved categories to the bottom 09:23:44 [[WikiFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88502 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+1247) Page created 09:24:27 [[WikiFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88503&oldid=88502 * GoodCoderBBoy * (-14) made code inline 09:25:38 [[WikiFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88504&oldid=88503 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+14) undid last edit 09:36:07 [[Kolmogorov]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88505&oldid=88363 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+178) Added a hyperlink to the 99 bottles of beer program to the external sources. 09:47:36 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:49:34 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 09:50:30 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:50:54 [[WikiFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88506&oldid=88504 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+1129) instruction table 09:57:12 [[WikiFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88507&oldid=88506 * GoodCoderBBoy * (+37) added credit 09:57:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:59:57 -!- tromp has joined. 10:04:22 -!- river has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:04:41 -!- river has joined. 10:20:44 I wish new languages were not just memes around the esolang wiki 11:15:46 -!- river has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:43:24 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:56:06 -!- tromp has joined. 13:10:06 Yeah, the whole "what if I made silly syntax!?" urge is boring. At the same time, it's a necessary byproduct of refusing to agree on society's typical limitations for programming languages; we don't require readability. 13:39:57 `factor 1114111 13:39:57 1114111: 1114111 13:40:19 > maxBound :: Char 13:40:21 '\1114111' 13:41:10 `factor 111412 13:41:11 111412: 2 2 7 23 173 13:43:00 At least this one is fleshed out and implemented 14:09:33 1114111, is that the Unicode number? Yeah. So recognizable. 14:11:14 well spotted 14:12:41 cursed video games controls: qsdz for ←↓→↑ and no option to remap keys 14:14:13 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY is why) 14:14:35 Oh, I thought it was something designed for someone who's sitting at a 45° angle with respect to the keyboard, and off to the left. 14:16:41 We had a school trip to CERN once, all the keyboards there are azerty. I zqs spelling qll zeird qll the time. 14:54:31 -!- costledger_ has joined. 14:56:17 -!- costledger_ has left. 15:30:36 `factor 1114112 15:30:37 1114112: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 17 15:31:27 (Seventeen planes of 2¹⁶ codepoints each.) 15:32:46 oops 15:35:57 Also written as 0x110000. 15:36:20 -!- vyv has joined. 15:47:07 also the limit of what utf-16 can encode 15:47:39 FWIW, "oops" was less about the typo and more about not immediately realizing that the result I got was nonsense. 15:52:40 I figured as much. The typo happens to anyone. 16:10:57 Is there a stack lang with algebraic data types? 16:18:03 . o O ( STG? ) 16:18:52 I guess that is a serious answer, really... look at implementations of functional programming languages and you'll find such things. 16:21:48 Does it have to be a stack language, or just a tacit/concatenative language? 16:21:52 Huh. Didn’t realize that was stack-based? Though now that I think about it … the scraps I’ve heard sort of make that answer make sense. 16:25:26 Hmm, well, I was thinking about a specific way to have construction / deconstruction work that depends on a stack. (cons that packs the tag atop the stack and the field values below it into a single stack element, uncons that reverses this, case/match which branches on a tag). 16:25:59 And was wondering whether this has been done before and what alternatives there are to accomplish the same thing. 16:26:26 Sure. Have you seen Joy? 16:26:37 Not really? 16:27:09 Ah. Joy would be a good language to look at, then. http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html is a decent introduction which skips a lot of the category theory. 16:28:01 The main issue is *custom* data types. Any high-level labeled ADT can be built from basic ingredients: Sums, products, fixpoints. The labeling is the valuable ingredient, as it can be used to enforce well-typedness in certain nice ways. 16:30:09 Oh, I actually read that concatenative combinators page. 16:45:13 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:45:13 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:46:03 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 17:09:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:27:47 -!- tromp has joined. 17:35:06 -!- imode has joined. 17:49:11 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:54:20 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 17:54:59 -!- hendursaga has joined. 18:00:06 -!- tromp has joined. 18:27:33 -!- Manna5 has joined. 18:31:26 -!- Manna5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:46:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:38:27 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:39:57 -!- tromp has joined. 20:24:58 [[Stardust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88508&oldid=88440 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1815) Blanked the page 20:25:21 [[Starstuff]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88509 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1816) Created page with " '''Starstuff''' is a (family of) programming language(s) by [[User:PixelatedStarfish]]. It is designed such that an arbitrary sequence of characters can be interpreted as sou..." 20:25:57 [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88510&oldid=88437 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Stardust */ 20:27:01 [[Starstuff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88511&oldid=88509 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) 21:00:07 -!- moony has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:00:20 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Blame iczero something happened). 21:00:20 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 21:03:03 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:05:13 -!- iovoid has joined. 21:16:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:17:21 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:17:52 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 21:17:52 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Blame iczero something happened). 21:20:21 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:21:16 -!- iovoid has joined. 21:42:55 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Blame iczero something happened). 21:42:55 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 21:47:08 -!- iovoid has joined. 21:49:52 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 22:38:43 Windows Update sure can be vague: "We need to do a few more things before you can update. We'll let you know when we're done and what to do next. This window will automatically close in 2 minutes." 22:39:12 (Booted it for the first time in a year or so, it's always a huge mess of updates.) 22:43:41 Those things always happen when I boot to Windows. 22:44:03 Why is updating such a mess? 22:44:20 Shouldn't it be possible to do everything in the background unintrusively until the final switch to the new configuration, which should be instant? 22:44:26 I mean, even in the cases where you need to reboot. 22:47:54 -!- moony has joined. 22:49:05 ... yeah, that's nice, until it eats 100% of your disk access time (at high priority, or something), and actually using the computer for anything is impossible 23:04:36 -!- delta23 has joined. 23:33:07 -!- Noisytoot has changed nick to GPLv3. 23:33:27 -!- oerjan has joined.