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14:45:01 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:46:11 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 14:53:18 -!- Koen has joined. 14:54:37 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:56:16 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 14:57:56 -!- vyv has joined. 14:58:19 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:04:31 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:05:12 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 15:09:00 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:17:02 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:17:30 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 15:24:28 -!- src has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:25:58 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:26:40 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 15:31:35 riv: some poor guy at Google who has to justify the decisions made by the billing system to customers 15:31:45 i am missing context 15:31:54 riv: only a few days of it 15:32:29 AIUI nakilon got billed for his free tier VM and doesn't understand why (nor, I think, does anybody else) 15:32:45 I'm sure that's oversimplified 15:33:40 With some luck we'll get a tl;dr out of this :P 15:33:59 oh shit 15:34:03 that's my worst nightmare 15:35:03 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:36:06 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 15:38:04 -!- andydude has joined. 15:39:05 -!- arseniiv has joined. 15:41:48 -!- andydude has quit (Client Quit). 15:44:20 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:45:39 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 15:50:34 [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88657&oldid=88656 * PixelatedStarfish * (-4) /* Commands */ 15:54:01 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:55:51 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 15:59:13 --------------- Original Message --------------- 15:59:14 From: ?????? ?????? [nakilon@...] 15:59:38 their email does not support cyrillic letters in my name lol 16:00:03 int-e riv I guess I've found the final explanation 16:01:00 it's all about stupid listing the "cost" and "discount" with opposite signs and on the opposite ends of the bill list 16:02:47 -!- MrAureliusR_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in). 16:03:45 simply saying, the bill says: Total - $8, CPU - $4, RAM - $2, other stuff - , ... 16:03:56 -!- MrAureliusR has joined. 16:04:09 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:04:48 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 16:05:19 so it looks like CPU+RAM are the main parts of the bill, but in fact 4 pages below there is: RAM discount - -$1.9, CPU discount - -$3.9 16:06:03 while the "other stuff" really sum up to the same 6-8 $ if you look closely 16:09:28 riv but if you want a puzzle, this still remains a mistery for me https://i.imgur.com/TaIWnE2.png - what does it mean 380h = $-1.8, 96h = $+2.1 16:10:19 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 16:13:14 so 384h would be 16 days? 16:16:35 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:17:03 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 16:25:26 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:26:06 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 16:27:18 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88658&oldid=88081 * Heptor * (+35) /* Brainfuck derivatives */ 16:32:59 I mean together with the graphs this reads like... 384h of a quarter vCPU, which sat idle for most of the time accumulating a discount, but not for the full 16 days because of whatever happened between September 28th and October 1st. And then there's another 96h of full vCPU time (stretched over the 16 day period, so effectively also a quarter vCPU). It is funny that those numbers don't compare. 16:34:27 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:35:23 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 16:36:51 I guess the biggest part of the puzzle is... are there actually two VMs involved? 16:39:20 (It's also funny that it says 383.98 for what should logically be 384.) 16:39:53 ("logically"... by the logic that this represents 384h of using a quarter of a vCPU) 16:43:42 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:44:54 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 16:53:14 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:55:06 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:03:20 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:03 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:12:00 I've never looked into Cloud pricing or actually tried to take advantage of the free tier, but I've always assumed Compute Engine instances are billed based on amount of allocated CPU times instance uptime, with no effect whatsoever on whether you actually make it compute things or not (unlike Cloud Run, which does have a notion of active-but-idle). 17:12:54 https://cloud.google.com/compute/vm-instance-pricing "If an instance is idle, but still has a state of RUNNING, it will be charged for instance uptime." 17:14:15 Yeah I'm sure https://i.imgur.com/TaIWnE2.png isn't the full picture (yay, pun). 17:15:18 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:15:48 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:16:35 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 17:17:06 Not claiming I understand that table/chart at all. :) 17:19:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:19:28 -!- hendursaga has joined. 17:24:03 Especially the "96 hour" / "383,98 hour" thing you mentioned. The chart itself does seem to have some sort of internal consistency, in the sense that $2.09/16 ~ $0.13, which is where that daily line is, and also eyeballing the Sep 29-30 "gap" in the orange line looks like it might be worth $0.25. 17:24:10 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:24:15 -!- andydude has joined. 17:24:51 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:33:11 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:34:08 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:42:28 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:43:35 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:51:57 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:53:46 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 17:55:22 [[Help.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88659&oldid=88654 * WhyNot? * (+0) 17:59:26 -!- hendursaga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:02:05 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:02:46 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 18:08:52 -!- Koen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:35 -!- Koen has joined. 18:14:04 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:14:33 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 18:16:46 -!- Koen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:21:15 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88660&oldid=88653 * Larryrl * (+658) 18:23:18 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:23:58 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 18:32:25 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:33:03 -!- Thelie has joined. 18:33:18 -!- monoxane7 has joined. 18:35:26 -!- x77 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:40 -!- x77 has joined. 18:41:43 -!- monoxane7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:16 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 18:45:01 -!- andydude has quit (Quit: andydude). 18:51:16 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:54 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 18:58:04 -!- mich181189_ has changed nick to mich181189. 18:59:49 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:00:32 -!- arseniiv has joined. 19:01:14 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:01:59 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 19:10:40 -!- x77 has left (Leaving). 19:12:50 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:19 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 19:15:18 -!- hendursaga has joined. 19:19:52 fizzie that's another mystery -- there would be a gap in some 31 days long month but this discount ended on 29th 19:20:31 while is supposed to be 720h = 30 days long 19:21:02 oh, maybe in the first 2 days of September there was another instance launched while I was migrating 19:22:55 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:24 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 19:24:06 and while the red/blue is supposedly proportional to 1.84/2.09, I have no idea what's the purpose of "96h" value 19:25:00 ./g 92 19:25:02 ww 19:27:42 and btw 19:32:41 real average CPU usage was 15% https://i.imgur.com/AgGKNDk.png so the fact that 96 looks like 1/4 of 384 can not mean anything else I suppose that the "reserved" that is 25% but it is irrelevant to billing anyway 19:33:01 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:33:29 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 19:34:54 even if you suppose that that 96h value is just a misleadinly formatted "25% of 384h" it again makes no sense because Blue part is larger than Red half and the Usage values should rather be proportional to Cost values 19:35:09 they shouldn't be equal 19:35:24 they should result in that $0.25 diff 19:41:58 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:42:38 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 19:43:00 Oh is it 383.98 because it was down for about half an hour? 19:43:12 wait 19:43:38 that's a minute, not half an hour 19:44:53 In any case, as suggestive as that graph is, that screenshot isn't enough to make sense of the bill. 19:45:54 Because while it's evident that there's a gap in the discount computation it does nothing to explain that gap. Though it is suggestive that it is at the end of the month, hmm 19:46:18 and I just realized that it should be a bar diagram rather than using straight lines to connect those data points 19:47:24 -!- Corbin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:48:52 Re "real average CPU usage", as I said I'm pretty sure actual CPU utilization has nothing to do with billing. 19:49:35 Didn't think of the 384 * 0.25 = 96 thing though, to make sense out of those two numbers. 19:50:44 Not that it really makes them make sense. 19:51:18 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:52:11 Yeah, the 0.02 hour difference between 384 and 384,98 (why is that even formatted using a comma? nothing else is) hours sure doesn't explain why $2.09 and -$1.84 are so different. 19:52:15 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 19:53:34 int-e: There's a pair of icons at the corner that look like a line vs. bar chart selector. 19:55:04 I saw the most ridiculous interpolated lines in a chart the other day, can't remember where that was. 19:55:20 Remember mentioning it on IRC but not which channel it was. 19:55:43 Oh, right, no, I do. 19:55:54 https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/TaIWnE2.png <-- this is what I mean 19:56:17 and suddenly it looks much more like the discount running out early September 29th and resuming on October 1st 19:56:49 oh yeah, those icons look promising 19:57:03 Here, have a look at this ridiculous thing: https://snyk.io/wp-content/uploads/25b.png 19:57:34 so smooth! 19:59:59 But I still think we don't have sufficient information to explain that gap. 20:00:26 The free instance's description says it's accounted monthly for the actual duration of the month, not 30 days. 20:00:37 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:01:55 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 20:02:17 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it'd make a lot more sense if the *discount* was a fixed daily amount, and just the actual usage it's supposed to cancel out would be the one that'd have some glitches in if (if there's been any VM reshuffling), not the other way around. 20:03:34 Now I'm wondering whether Cloud at Cost is still up and doing business. 20:03:49 int-e 1. I suppose gap is because in Sep 6 - Sep 8 there were two instance launched at the same time, when I migrated from Chromium to Ubuntu 2. there is a bar mode too nebaled by a button in upper right, yeah, it looks nicier but support guy LOVES lines 20:04:04 fizzie: re: icons... of course it would be great if those worked in a screenshot. (and scary. oh so scary.) 20:04:46 Heh, first thing on the cloudatcost landing page: "virtual crypto miners". 20:05:11 They're still selling their one-time payment VPSes though, apparently. 20:05:28 int-e yeah discount starts on Oct 1 because it gets kind of renewed up to 720h 20:06:24 so the 720 h of discount can end up earlier during the month 20:06:27 there's also this, if this is monthly you'd need to look at the utilization for all of september. 20:06:30 forming the gap 20:07:15 September had 30 days, incidentally, so it shouldn't be a calendar issue even if they give you 720h every month. 20:07:56 But also from the description I found I'd expect them to give you 744h for October. 20:08:11 Yeah, I don't think it's supposed to be a fixed 720h. ("Each month, eligible use of all of your e2-micro instance is free until you have used a number of hours equal to the total hours in the current month.") 20:08:15 But I don't know. I haven't touched GCP at all. 20:09:46 Cloud used to have an employee "have $20/month free credit" thing to get us all to just basically play around / experiment on it, but they stopped that before I managed to figure out what to do with it. 20:10:19 did the free tier exist at the time? 20:10:36 I mean it kind of serves the same purpose 20:10:54 just in a more democratic way 20:10:56 It wasn't probably exactly like the current free tier offering, at least. 20:11:02 (and, evidently, intransparent) 20:11:02 int-e https://i.imgur.com/LeEbEKI.png 20:11:14 23:07:15 September had 30 days, incidentally, so it shouldn't be a calendar issue 20:11:28 right, so september 6th-8th is your problem 20:11:37 ^ this is why the support guy fristarted me from the start ebcause the 30 days issue was the first thing he said 20:11:39 7th, actually 20:11:44 daying that it exaplins the issue... 20:11:47 *s 20:11:52 sorry, typos 20:11:54 as you said 20:12:08 I was half-expecting the esolangs cloudatcost host to just answer SSH again, but it doesn't. :/ 20:12:44 yes, the 6-8 is a problem but instead after the "there are more than 30 days" he then switched to "you have chosen wrong type of disk..." 20:12:48 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:06 It also says it's run for 766.67 (quarter-vCPU) hours in September. 20:13:17 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 20:13:39 nakilon: Yeah you've provided quite a bit of evidence that the support person is clueless. 20:15:08 I don't understand those "Usage" column numbers in this later chart either. :) 20:15:49 And the comma is still weirding me out. :) 20:16:00 Arguably the discount numbers should say 720h instead of 766.67 20:16:08 I'll post something in /r/googlecloud later to make people realise why they have this "I've switched to new e2-micro but my bill only grows!" 20:17:16 yeah, idk what 766.67 mean; if I have used all the discount of the month it should be something divisable by 24 I suppose 20:17:17 -!- Koen has joined. 20:17:25 int-e: I mean, even ignoring the core parts, the RAM part says "766,67 gibibyte hour" for both the red and orange ones. 20:17:34 > 766.67/4 -- at least that's reasonably close to 191.67 20:17:49 I guess it *might* mean just "usage that's eligible for the discount", no matter whether the discount runs out or not. 20:17:51 @bot 20:17:57 uh. 20:18:07 :) 20:18:08 191.6675 20:18:39 wtf happened there 20:18:54 Maybe just Libera being slow? 20:19:10 > 766.67/24 20:19:18 -!- Bowserinator_ has joined. 20:19:26 Interesting that the order got flipped though. 20:19:53 nah it does spawn a Haskell thread per query 20:20:37 ``` ruby -e 'p 766.67/24' 20:20:40 31.94458333333333 20:20:58 ``` ruby -e 'p 32*24' 20:21:00 768 20:21:02 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:21:04 31.94458333333333 20:21:12 (and the `>` involves running an external process) 20:21:44 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:21:47 but hmm. can I see what it's doing somehow I wonder... 20:21:50 ``` ruby -e 'p 24*0.05541' 20:21:51 1.32984 20:21:55 > 1 20:21:57 1 20:22:00 huh 20:22:03 it's 32 days minus 1.32 h of discount 20:22:05 _<> 20:22:25 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 20:22:58 oh wait, it's not discount, it's what I've used 20:22:58 > 3.93/720*766.67 20:23:00 4.184740416666666 20:23:15 so then I paid for extra 46 hours I suppose 20:23:33 Yeah, that's what it looks like. 20:25:05 still not fair as someone here noted it's more than 360 days in a year so it's like you'll have to pay for 5 days even on a "Free Tier" 20:25:43 nakilon: I believe, from the information about the free tier, that you get d*24h for a month with d days. 20:26:22 ah ok 20:26:23 And fizzie also read it that way. 20:28:16 source is here: https://cloud.google.com/free/docs/gcp-free-tier#compute "Each month, eligible use of all of your e2-micro instance is free until you have used a number of hours equal to the total hours in the current month." 20:30:50 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:31:41 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 20:40:11 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:30 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 20:44:29 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:45:39 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:50:01 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:51:34 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:00:04 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:45 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:12:58 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88661&oldid=88660 * Larryrl * (+7) /* Instructions */ 21:13:28 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:13:56 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:14:33 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88662&oldid=88661 * Larryrl * (+1) /* Instructions */ 21:21:10 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88663&oldid=88662 * Larryrl * (+516) /* Examples */ 21:21:33 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88664&oldid=88663 * Larryrl * (-1) /* Examples */ 21:21:46 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:22:40 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:43 -!- Thelie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:23:21 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:24:57 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88665&oldid=88664 * Larryrl * (+160) /* History */ 21:25:42 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:28:05 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88666&oldid=88665 * Larryrl * (+210) /* Examples */ 21:28:55 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88667&oldid=88666 * Larryrl * (+2) /* Examples */ 21:31:51 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:32:47 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:34:36 [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88668&oldid=88657 * PixelatedStarfish * (+178) /* Program Examples */ 21:35:09 [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88669&oldid=88668 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) 21:36:05 [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88670&oldid=88669 * PixelatedStarfish * (+83) /* Truth Machine */ 21:41:16 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:26 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:50:56 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:52:32 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 21:55:45 -!- Bowserinator_ has changed nick to Bowserinator. 22:00:59 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:39 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 22:08:38 [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88671&oldid=88667 * Larryrl * (+0) /* Instructions */ 22:13:46 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:14:15 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 22:22:55 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:36 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 22:32:06 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:32:59 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 22:41:28 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:45 -!- monoxane75 has joined. 22:43:56 -!- monoxane75 has quit (Client Quit). 22:52:50 -!- sprock has quit (Quit: brb). 22:53:29 -!- sprock has joined. 22:57:08 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:14:55 ok my graph path algorithm sucks https://i.imgur.com/3vN4ywG.png it ended up with a 3-star that can not be resolved, all they ways are blacklisted; I'm so unwilling to implemented the wikipedia algorithms... 23:54:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:56:17 -!- delta23 has joined.